How To Get More Australian’s Fit & Active with Fitness Australia CEO, Barrie Elvish | Episode 20

I was meeting with, as I say, a person who should know much better who said, oh, well, the trouble with gyms is they're just for men with six-packs.

Wow.

And I said to her, okay, you know, half of it might be. I said, look, when was the last time you were in a gym? Because when I go to a gym, there's more females than males for a start. The only six-pack is behind the bar. And there's young people there, there's people enjoying themselves, there's this really strong community spirit. There's people on NDIS plans there. It's a really broad cross-section of the community.

Welcome to Industry Change. I am Richard Toutounji, and today I've got a very special guest, very fitness-related. Barry Elvish, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Richard. It's great to be here.

Thank you. Thank you for dropping into the office. And Barry, if you don't know who Barry Elvish is, start to know who Barry is. He's the CEO of Fitness Australia. And what does Fitness Australia do? I might ask him in a second, but if you're a fitness professional, health professional in this space of health, fitness, and wellness, I think this is an interview you want to see because if you're running a business, you want to understand You know, what— where the future is lying for the fitness industry and what's Barry's grand plans. And that's what I'm going to talk to you today, if that's okay.

Sure.

Tell me, Barry, first of all, Elvish. There's a lot of Lord of the Rings fans, is that right?

There is a lot of Lord of the Rings fans out there.

And it seems to be a very popular Elvish in Lord of the Rings. I don't watch it, but that's what I hear.

Neither do I. It's actually a Viking name.

Right.

And so is the red hair. So I like to believe that I'm the great-great-great-great, et cetera, grandson of Eric the Red. But you know, we hope, we live in hope.

Perfect. Well, if that's the case, then tell me about something else because you're not, you haven't come into this industry like a lot of people. This industry is very cliquey. I don't know if you've seen that. Oh, absolutely. But it's very cliquey. And you know what I mean, what I'm saying, guys? It is very cliquey. It's like someone's been there or they've done that. And it's all interconnected and you've come outside the fitness industry. So tell me how you got the job of CEO of Fitness Australia. I mean, why did you end up in this amazing industry for?

Yeah, look, I could say that it was in a cornflake packet, but I won't because it clearly wasn't. But, you know, Richard, I don't even have a pair of Lycra pants or shorts or anything. No way. So I'm not part of the business. My background initially was outdoor education.

Right.

And I left teaching and went to work for a program in South Australia called the Duke of Edinburgh's Award, which had a fitness component to it. Yeah, definitely. Went back to uni, did an MBA, and decided that I would spend my career working in the not-for-profit sector. So I've spent the last, well, 30-odd years going through marketing, business development roles, and got my first CEO position 21 years ago. Primarily since then, I've been in early childhood, but also in disability organisations, university organisations, and so on. So to come to your question, how did I get to Fitness Australia? Well, I was approached by a recruitment company that looked at my background and said, look, you know, you're interested in fitness, which I am, although I'm not part of the trade per se.

You look fit and healthy to me, Barry.

Yeah, well, we still work on it, mate. You know, we still work on it. And because I've been involved in member-based organisations, they said, are you interested? I looked at it and thought, you know what, this isn't a bad place to be. I must admit, coming to Sydney was a real lure, unlike most people that say they'll never come to Sydney because of the cost of housing, etc. But my 2 sons both live here. And so for my wife and I, it was the first time in 6 years that we've been in the same city as our 2 sons, and that was a huge attraction. And it's been, if nothing else, I mean, the job is fantastic, of course, but being with my sons is fantastic.

Family.

Family comes first, always.

And I think that, that kind of tones in this conversation, family, because I think the fitness industry do, and I might speak to the fitness professionals out there, that they've been running their business through the hard, through the slog, through the years, and they treat it as a family. And some of them are putting this business before their family to a degree, for good or bad, but that's what it is. And they're treating their business as— Family. their extended family.

Yeah.

And when somebody does that in business, there's a lot of pressure that they get every day. And I wanted to talk about, you know, Fitness Australia. And most importantly, like, we deal a lot with marketing and we have a lot of fitness and wellness professionals that come in here and say, listen, Richard, I need more leads. I need more engagement. I need more clients. And one of the first things that we say to anybody is we say, hey, let me look at your brand and what's your brand look like? And I wanted to ask you, because Fitness Australia, is the leading organisation in this industry and the spokesperson for the industry. And I think this is the 3rd interview I've done with a Fitness Australia CEO. And I'm just interested in what does being part of Fitness Australia mean for a small business's, fitness business's brand? What's the connection piece? Because it's clearly a partnership. What is the partnership?

Yeah, and look, it's interesting. I can't speak on previous CEOs' behalf, but I think the partnership is critical. Because if Fitness Australia has a well-respected, high-profile brand, then our members are going to benefit automatically. I have to be honest and say to you though, I think that over the last few years, the organisation, my organisation Fitness Australia, has perhaps dropped the ball a little bit.

Okay.

And some of our members, one of the good things about being not from the industry Is when I meet our members, they have absolutely no hesitation in venting.

No, no hesitation at all. Not in this industry anyway.

So it is like a family. I mean, they tell me what the good, bad, and the ugly is about Fitness Australia. And it's great because I don't take it personally. I let them vent. And to be quite honest, a lot of the criticism that I'm hearing, I think is quite valid. I think Fitness Australia hasn't been promoting the brand, marketing the brand of Fitness Australia well in the recent past. And because of that, some of our members have been saying, well, what do I get for being a member?

Sure.

We want you to be a spokesperson. We want you to open doors. We want you to actually go and speak to the key politicians, decision makers.

Is that what they're asking for?

Absolutely. And so they should. If you're going to be a member of an association, that is what you're entitled to expect the association to deliver. So Fitness Australia has to get its own brand together first. When we get our brand together, properly and out there in the community, then our members are going to see the huge benefits of being associated with an industry that has always had, I guess, the latent inherent potential for credibility and kudos. Now it's time to actually put the runs on the board.

And you're putting the runs on the board in a very, I think, unique way. I've had a couple conversations with yourself and I've seen you speak and spread your message out and What I see you're doing specifically is you're not working in the trenches, I would say, and excuse that if it's wrong. I think you're seeing a much bigger picture, and I think this industry's seeing, how do I get more clients? But you're seeing a much bigger picture, and you're seeing a greater reach that we're actually not tapping into. Do you wanna share on that?

Yeah, absolutely. You used the term in the trenches. I mean, I think we spent too much time in the trenches. Whether we've been too scared to put our head above the trenches and have it shot off, I'm not sure. But we have to operate on a much higher level as an organisation. We have to engage, as I indicated before, with the politicians, with the policymakers, with the funders, with the regulators, because I think we're going to be— we can anticipate there's going to be more regulation coming on our industry in the not too distant future. But my view is that, and this is what we talked about at Filex, and you and I had some discussions about this, Mm-hm. Is that at the moment, okay, I'm told 20% of Australians have a gym membership.

Yes.

6% of Australians go to a gym. So there's a 14% void straight away, which should be of concern to our members. But more than that, there's 80% out there who should be of even more concern. So how do we get those 80% at least thinking about going to a gym or taking part in exercise, whether it be in a gym or out in a field or football park, etc. So we've shifted our direction as an organisation to a higher, I guess, aim, and that's in support of the federal government's commitment last year to the World Health Organisation's Getting More People More Active More Often international campaign.

Yes.

And that signed Australia up to getting 15% of our population more active by 2030. If we have success in that as our strategic objective, another 15% of the population, what's that worth? 4 million people.

Huge.

Huge number. 20% go to a gym, 800,000 new gym members and so on and so on.

Let's just stop there for a second. So 20% go to a gym, would you say 800,000 new gym members?

Well, if there's 5 million more people getting active, by definition, a percentage of those are going to go from doing a park run, walking the dog, to something more programmed, more active, more—

So you're saying basically, Get them off the couch, get them walking. When they walk, we all know as fitness professionals that they want more. And you're saying then they're gonna move into what the fitness, what the members of Fitness Australia are selling, fitness, gyms, outdoor sessions, PTs. They're gonna move into that. Is that the plan?

Yeah, and look, there is actual, I can give you personal evidence to base that view on. I still compete in triathlons as a, In Old Farts with the team.

In the Masters, eh?

In the Masters, yeah.

Not bad at all.

Yep. Only I do the running leg because I've been running for Yonks. But I also do parkruns.

Right.

And I've watched people, I know people who do parkruns who've gone from pushing the pram, half walking, half walking, half jogging, etc., to running.

Yes.

And then they've said to, I've heard that they've spoken to me and said, okay, you're in triathlons, how do I get involved in fun runs and so on and so on, and they gravitate then to a more, I guess, higher level physical activity. The same thing will happen to those people that start getting more active. A percentage of those will go to a gym, a percentage of those who want to get involved in sports activities that might take place outside of a gym run by our exercise professionals. So if we just use a 20% figure,

yes,

5 million more is 15% of Australians, 20%, 800,000.

Wow.

That is the flow-on benefit. It's not going to be a sugar hit overnight. It's a long-term strategy, but at the end of the day, it'll be self-fulfilling.

So Barry, that's perfect because, you know, at Filex in Brisbane, you heard my presentation and I was talking about Facebook. In 2007, Facebook, the business advertising on it, their revenue of Facebook was $55 million. In 2018, it's $55 billion. Yeah, unbelievable. What you're saying and what this market is, you know, when we search people's Facebook ads and people are competing on Facebook and they're saying, Facebook's not working, I'm not getting enough leads in. You're saying, what Fitness Australia's advocating here is you're saying, well, if we work on the top level, we bring in these 800,000 new people that want to get involved in exercise to our market that are saying, hey Richard, how do we get more leads? You're opening up that lead funnel for us.

Absolutely. And another example which will be a much quicker hit, I guess, is we're talking to Lorna Jane.

Yep.

Lorna Jane has an Active Australia Day last Sunday in September. Very successful, it's growing. We're talking to them about co-promoting that exercise and they're really keen for us to do that. They've come back and said to us, hey Barry, do you think your gyms would open up free for the community on that Sunday? And I said, look, I'll do a bit of finger in the wind testing of that. I went out and spoke to some of the larger franchises and they said, fantastic, we'll open up for 4 or 5 hours a day because it's lead generation.

100%. Any person would want to take that.

Absolutely. So the more that we can, I guess, engage with other partners and other allied industries that help us help our members is the way to go.

You know, I love this conversation, Barry, because what's happening in the marketplace is that people are doing their little open days and they're doing their their health days individually, but if we just work together a bit smarter, a bit smarter, we can all win out of this.

Absolutely. And look, coming into the industry from outside, one of the things that strikes me, Richard, is there's a little bit of segmentation taking place and a little bit of, I guess, new operators coming into the field, whether they're disruptors or whatever it might be. And I guess when I speak to these people, my message is the same. Why are you diluting Why are you potentially diluting the impact that the organisation can have? You're better off working as one body and, you know, presenting that case rather than trying to separate and segment.

I think that's key. You know, Barry, as you know, we've been strong supporters of Fitness Australia for the last 8 years at least, and great partners. And I also believe that every industry, every business, just like business has its ups and downs, Industries have its ups and downs as well. Yeah. And again, if you're a long-term player and this is, the business is your family and this is where you're putting every dollar and cent, every spare time, it makes sense to reach out and get some help and reach out to talk to that industry. And it's great to hear that Fitness Australia is getting, having those big conversations that probably only a very few organisations or large companies can have.

Well, we can get into the door because of who we are and how big we are, etc. And if I go back to, you know, many years ago before the turn of the century, in fact, when I was doing my MBA, they used the term leverage.

Yes.

And that's what we're trying to do. We can't do it by ourselves. We need, we need, you know, engaged partners. We need our members engaged. This program to get more Australians more active is only going to be successful if all of our members actually are out there as well promoting it. And it's such, it's obviously to their benefit to do so.

Well, everybody's benefiting, everybody's making a dollar. And at the end of the day, I know you're, you know, the mission of a lot of people is to make Australia healthier and active. And I don't know who was telling me yesterday, I don't know if I heard it from yourself or somebody else, but it's, I think it was mentioned from you, but the cost of healthcare versus preventative health, do you have those figures handy? I think it was yourself that mentioned that.

Well, the bean counters, bless them, tell us that it's about $7 for every dollar.

So it costs us—

Every dollar spent in preventative health activity saves the taxpayer, you and I and everyone out there, $7 later through less health problems, less time in hospital, less unemployed, less time off work, and so on and so on. There is a, there is a clear line Invest now, go hard, go early, and you'll get the savings later on. And government is realizing this, which is that they've signed up to this international treaty not so ill feel-good.

Yeah,

that'd be great, but to save the taxpayers' money because they know that, they know it's there.

And so that means then, I'm assuming, opening up doors now is much easier with your private health insurance companies and organizations like that. Are they starting to like open up now?

Yeah, look, it's fantastic, Richard. As you know, when we spoke at Fylex, we use the term Fitness Australia is open for business. And I've been really, really stoked to receive the number of inquiries from a whole range of businesses.

Mm-hmm.

And NIB have come to us and said, okay, we want to talk to you about how we might be able to reinstitute what we had apparently a few years ago, whereby their members of the NIB Health Fund got genuine rebates to attend a gym. and/or their membership fee was covered by their health fund.

Makes sense.

Like when you go to Specsavers, you get your glasses, you get those twice a year, whatever it is. So we're talking to NIB about how we can perhaps roll that out. And if we can get that going with them, I mean, they're only the 4th largest, but quite clearly we'd want to go to Medibank and Bupa and stuff as well, because they tell us that they are losing in droves younger, fit Australians And the people that are staying are the older ones who are making the claims on them.

And they're costing the money.

Absolutely. So they need to, they need to engage and recruit and retain younger Australians. This is an easy way of doing it.

More profits for everybody.

And even healthier people.

Of course. Let's turn the subject a little bit because you're, again, you're coming in from the outside.

Yeah.

Okay, and I like this because whenever anybody comes in from an outside, I love asking them What do we look like from the outside? What's happening from the outside? So give us the inside scoop, Barry. When you came in, I want to know what did the fitness industry— when I say fitness industry, I mean like professionals look like, fitness professionals look like from the outside. And what does the fitness industry look like from the outside for like the consumer world as well? What are people saying?

Yeah, well, I guess because I've been a member of gym myself for some time, my view wasn't perhaps quite as distorted as the general public might be. But certainly speaking to people since I've taken this role on who aren't members of gyms as yet, I'm working on that. And I'd have to say some key people in government bodies and stuff who should know better.

Yeah.

I won't embarrass them by naming them. The problem that the industry has at the moment is perception. It's how it's perceived. So I was meeting with As I say, a person who should know much better who said, oh, well, the trouble with gyms is they're just for men with six-packs.

Wow.

And I said to her, okay, you know, half of it might be. I said, look, when was the last time you were in a gym? Because when I go to a gym, there's more females than males for a start. The only six-pack is behind the bar. And there's young people there, there's people enjoying themselves, there's this really strong community spirit, there's people on NDIS plans there. It's a really broad cross-section of the community. But I think there's still a large number of the community actually think that it is only for fit people who are already fit. So if they're not fit, if they haven't got the lycra, if they haven't got the equipment, they haven't got the gear and stuff, straight away they're intimidated by going. I think some gyms themselves don't do themselves a good service when they walk through the door in terms of engaging with them.

Sure, yep.

and making them feel at ease, giving them an instructor they can line up with. So putting a 65-year-old female with a 25-year-old male, you know, I'm not saying it doesn't work, but unless that 25-year-old male knows how to deal with 65-year-olds, there's problems.

Big hole.

So there are some perception issues. Fitness Australia's role, I guess, as we engage with the community and other partners, is to try and break those perceptions down. But again, we need to work with our members to

Great. And it's interesting because what we teach a lot in marketing, Barry, is making sure that what's happening inside the gym— because most clients love their trainers, they love their gym, but a lot of the time, unfortunately, and this is what we love to do, is to make sure what's happening inside the gym is happening outside on social media, on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Snapchat, on TikTok if you're even on there. Like, it's happening out there in the marketplace. And from what you're telling me, that if we as a whole industry, if we can do a better job in marketing what we actually do, slowly, slowly the outside will actually maybe come in through the doors.

Absolutely. I think the industry needs to be asking itself, why is it stuck on the 20%? What are the barriers? What are the problems, the obstacles to getting that other 80% to at least think about it?

I love that. Why are we stuck on the 20% pool? That is a great question everybody should ask themselves right now. Why are we stuck on the 20%? And that will fix a lot of problems, I think.

Yeah.

Very interesting conversation, guys. I've got a few random questions I might ask. I think we've got through quite a lot on my list that I wanted to talk to you about. So let's talk about, I guess, the— I just wanna have one question. Like, I personally see, maybe this is a personal question, this is what people are saying to me quite a lot. Richard, I've got a young trainer coming through the doors. As you said, they're 18, 19. And they're just, it's almost like they're training, they're just training as they go. How do we, you know, we are helping people get professional. Is that a good thing having someone young and inexperienced? Is it a bad thing? How is that gonna be perceived? Is there work to get that fixed? What are your thoughts on that? 'Cause I know that's a big question a lot of people have.

Yeah, look, well, I mean, being originally a trained teacher, When you first come out of university as a trained teacher, you are very raw and green around the edges, but also you are full of enthusiasm and passion. Yes, that is right. You want to change the world. A good school, if I use that as an analogy, will have fresh blood.

Yes.

They will have experienced blood and they will have the wise elders. Bringing those all together is how you get a very good school with a very good educational program. which takes into account the complete diversity of your student body. There is no reason why a gym should be no different to that. You need to tap into the enthusiasm, the energy, the passion, the desire to make people better and all the rest of it coming into a gym. At the same time, those new people coming in and the clients need to be able to benefit from the wisdom experience of those who have been in the game for some time and know the pitfalls.

I I love it. So it's a bit of a combination that you need, just like any kind of business, having a combination, and then the right clients will veer towards the right personalities for them.

Yeah, there'll be a natural matchup. It's like any natural selection when you go and choose a partner in life. I mean, you will go to those who you feel comfortable with, who you think are listening, who are encouraging you, actually have your interests at heart. They're not just in it for the money sort of business. So if you use the analogy right at the start of this discussion about a family, so The gym in itself should be a micro family where everyone's looking after each other, but everyone wants the best for each individual. And we don't get upset if someone actually goes ahead. We don't try and pull them back. It's not that crab bucket mentality. It's actually enjoying and celebrating the success of everybody.

Well, I just like it because you're just about to produce 800,000 more people we can get in the gym.

Let's hope so.

You heard it. One more question, just on a broad spectrum. For those who don't know much about Fitness Australia, And the structure and the process and who you have in place. I know your team and they're hard workers and they're always on the socials, they're always visiting gyms. I see that, but can you kind of explain the structure, the membership managers, what is everybody's roles in Fitness Australia? What does it consist of?

Okay, well, we have a customer service team, we have membership managers who liaise with the members, obviously. We have a marketing team, we have an advocacy side, we have a standards and accreditation side. Having said all that, I think the best thing to say is that we— it's actually like any good business, it's actually going through a transition program. Because as much as Fitness Australia lost the ball or dropped the ball to some degree with our marketing and advocacy in the past, we need to make sure that our current more leaner organisation, which it is now than when I first got there, is actually fit for purpose.

Fit for purpose.

Okay, fit for purpose. So we are actually doing What is in the best interest of our members. So those positions and roles I just described are in a stage of transition. At the end of this year, they will look different. But we'll be providing a better service, I believe, for our members. And any members out there who are actually watching this, if we're not, get in contact with me and tell me.

And how do we get in actually contact? If there's a member out there and say, you know what, I haven't heard from Fitness Australia, what am I doing? Like, actually, how do they contact? Just pick up the phone? Do you email? Do you go on socials?

Well, I live in a cave.

Yeah.

So my social media skills are pretty limited. So I'd suggest you get on the phone. I do have a mobile. It's not a brick, it's actually a small one. Okay. Give me a call or email me directly.

Great.

Because I really appreciate and welcome that direct engagement because that's the way I hear what we're doing well and not so well.

And I must say to everybody, that is true. I do believe that you can take a lot of hits And it's something how you actually engage and actually execute out there.

Well, it comes with age, Richard.

You've been around the car park a couple of times.

Been around, yeah. You just knock me down, I'll get back up again.

Excellent. Barry, just before we finish up, for those who have maybe been old members, maybe they haven't renewed their registration for a couple of years, it's lapsed, what flavor would you tell people? What would you tell somebody to say, why should we get a board? Because from this conversation, what I'm hearing, I'm hearing that You're on the top there trying to get all the organisations together. Let's all work together to bring in this fresh 80% of people into this game. And obviously everybody wants a piece of that, I would say. Sure. So what do we need to do to get back involved with F for Fitness Australia? What would be the first step?

Well, that's not what you start off by asking. You actually start off by saying, why should they join?

I've got 2 questions.

Okay, so what are we doing first? Why

should they join?

Okay, why they should join. Because it gives them credibility as being part of the industry, the leading industry association, and that's not a glib term. We are the largest, quite clearly. And when you go and talk to governments and Sport Australia and stuff, they refer to Fitness Australia.

Because you're the largest?

Because we're the largest, but also because we have accreditation, ongoing education, professional standards. So they've made it very clear,

Sports

Australia, that they will not engage with us unless we maintain

Ooh, let's talk about that again because, so we didn't even touch on this, but you're saying that they're engaging with Fitness Australia because you're following through clear standards and that obviously eliminates risk for everybody involved.

Absolutely, and I can support that even further by saying in our discussions with NIB, they are only talking to us because we have that accreditation, that standards, and they actually use that term, We want to minimise our risk if we're going to support people going to gyms. So why you should join is to give the members credibility, but to give us credibility by sheer size. So when we go and speak to governments again and Sport Australia and all these other people, we want to be able to say we represent 90% of the industry. Straight away, you've got traction. So that's why they should join.

Great. And there's a whole bunch of other benefits too, but I don't even want to talk about those because really at the end of the day, We're having a much higher level of conversation here than the other 1,000 benefits you give anyway.

The bottom line is, if our instructors, our exercise professionals want to be treated and regarded in the community as professionals, if our gyms want to be regarded as the best possible gym services and facilities available, there is no choice but to maintain a high level of professionalism. And that comes through accreditation with a reputable organisation That insists and maintains accreditation standards, CCs. I know that's a problem for some of our instructors. They don't like our exercise professionals, excuse my terminology. I know they don't like it.

Yep.

But every other profession, every other profession bar none has ongoing education and professional development.

Guys, you heard it right there. Thanks so much, Barry, for coming in.

And before we—

The last question, the last question, sorry, was how do we get involved?

How do you get involved?

How do we re-register?

Oh, well, you go online.

Go online.

Go and re-register. If you're having problems with our IT system because it is a bit clunky, contact me directly and I'll fast-track it for you.

No dramas.

But before we close out, Richard, I do want to say I'm really excited and enthused that COM and Fitness Australia have renewed our partnership and you're going to be sticking around with us for a few more years.

Yes, yes. I'm pretty pumped that we have renewed our partnership together. And that means that we can actually give more value. And we love that whole piece of making sure that we can get better quality leads into a personal trainer, a fitness professional, a gym owner. And that's what we're gonna help your members do, continue to help them do, is to make sure their positioning and branding is right. 'Cause our mission is very similar to your mission, Barry. We wanna make sure that we have a healthier, happier— it sounds a bit corny, but at the end of the day, your health is all you have at the end of the day.

Absolutely. Well, that and family, and you can't have one without the other really, so.

True. Guys, you heard it here. Get involved with Fitness Australia if you're not already. We're very excited to re-partner with Fitness Australia in this new partnership, and there's heaps of value in that for everybody here. Thank you so much for watching this episode of Industry Change. If you prefer the audio version, go to the podcast app on your phone and search for Industry Change. We have heaps of other podcasts you can go to. If you are a fitness professional and you wanna learn more about how to make sure your business has a better perception online, my suggestion, go to our Facebook group. It's called Crush Your Fitness Marketing. It's totally for free and you can start engaging and having conversations there and getting involved in making sure that your business looks amazing online. Thanks so much. I'll see you next time on Industry Change.