S1 Ep 11: The Do's and Don'ts Of Running A Business With Your Partner

Welcome back to the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show, and today we've got a very special treat in the studio. Right next to me, I've got Joey Taternji, my significant other, also wife, business partner, and somebody I've been working with for a very long time. And on the other side of Zoom, we've got Ev Chapman. How are you?

I'm great. How are you guys?

Amazing.

Very good.

I thought, um, we today we're talking all about, uh, working. Well, first of all, should you work with your significant other? And if you are or deciding or being forced to, or you are the significant other that's been forced to work with each other, um, or you love working with each other or you hate it, well, this is the show to tune into. Uh, specifically, we're gonna talk about all those subjects. Joey's got about 7 points that she wants to get through, and I've brought Ev on here so really she can, uh, dig deep on a few points that she definitely wants to ask us the questions. So that's why I thought I'd have Ev on this show again to, um, To really keep us honest, I think.

I think so. I'm keen for this episode because I think we chatted about this, I don't know, sometime last week. And I think there's a lot of business owners who they either do work together or they absolutely don't work together or they, you know, they're supporting their significant other. So there's lots of different, I think, angles that we can go here. So And I think you guys have been working together for a fairly long while. And I have experienced, you know, that, you know, for 7, the last 7 years, that kind of vibe of the, you know, husband and wife working together. And I think you do it really well. So I think this is going to be a really good episode. Okay. So tell me, first of all, let's tell everyone, how long have you been working together? Did you intend to work together? Or like, how did this whole thing happen?

Well, I'll start. And, um, and I think also too, this episode, it's really— it's a great question you bring, like, did we intend to work together? And so just to, to set the story straight, uh, we have been married 15 years. Um, Joey likes to always put this point together for how many?

21.

21 years. Wow. And, um, so So we're talking. So I think when we talk, we're talking working with a partner. I think it's also, it's important to understand, well, how long has that relationship been? Because I think working with anybody, not that I would go in, not that I went into business saying it's going to put a strain on a relationship, but I do believe that when you decide to work with your partner, you've kind of got to understand, are you the right fit for each other? Because I certainly know a lot of people in business that not work with their significant other and they have amazing successful businesses. And I also know a lot of couples that are working together that have some great successful businesses as well. So I think your question, Ev, was should you work with your partner? Is that, is that the question?

Well, I asked how long have you guys been working together and did you intend it to be that way?

Well, I remember I mean, and Joey, you've been exposed to business your whole life before you met me, right?

Yes. So I grew up in a house of entrepreneurship. So my dad has a business, my brothers went into their own business. So it was a very natural instinct when Richard and I were together and he was an entrepreneur for me to be able to gravitate towards entrepreneurship was very easy. Um, when we first were together, I was— had my own career as a PE teacher, so I was doing my thing. Um, I think what really brought us together was the health industry. So we both were into health and wellness. Um, being a PE teacher myself, I was also into that, and we just both gravitated because we both had the exact same interest and wanted to push a vision together forward. So yeah, it's really fitness and health brought us together.

Yeah, totally.

That's cool.

Um, and I think the first— I think in previous episodes I talked about myself owning a fitness studio. Joey wasn't involved in that fitness studio at all, um, as any, like, in business, even behind the scenes, I don't think. I did come to you for And vice versa, very probably rarely.

You guys did meet as a result of the fitness studio, right?

Well, actually, Richard was my parents' personal trainer. And

so,

so yeah, fitness brought us together in our relationship, and then it obviously brought us together in business as well.

So cute. I love it. So when was the first time that you guys did actually start working together?

Well, I think it was, um, I'm pretty sure that I'd like to call it Joey on the book, maybe.

Yes.

Is I came back from overseas on cruise liners. I was working on cruise liners as a personal trainer, um, and I had this vision to start a book. Now Joey was, um, working with, um, kids. I believe you're working with kids at the time. You had a, you had a kids— you actually started your own business with kids. birthday party business.

Yes.

And you had a kids' rock band as well. And I remember I was writing this book for about a year and I probably, I think, and this is probably a key part, I think I need a little bit of help. As in, I wanted to get help writing the book because I did a decent amount of chapters. I mean, let's say I've got 12 chapters in the book. I think I did about half and I said, oh my gosh, this is getting a bit tiresome here. I've got this chapter that I've got to write about on kids. And I knew Joey had a lot of experience in kids and I had a lot of experience with adults. And so I said to Joey a couple times, mind you, not just once, multiple times. I said, Joey, I think we should do this together.

I just wanted to make sure that you were sure. You wanted to share this experience because the vision he had was so, so strong. So he came to me with like, do you want to write this? And I am a natural person who is what I would say like an educator, and I love to learn and I love to write. And, um, so yeah, I at first I was like, are you sure? Because this is something you really wanted to do, and I really like to encourage him when he wants to do something to go full out. Do it, right? I don't want to come in and crash the party as such. But we discovered that together we can be quite powerful to be able to share this experience of writing the book together.

So I think that was the first time we worked together on a project. And when you are working together, I think the lessons here is that sometimes you can work long-term in a business together, but at the same time too, projects I think are a really good point If you are struggling to work with your partner, and when we're talking about partners, we are talking about relationship partners, husbands, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever it is for you, significant other. And so we are talking about that more than a business partner on this particular call. And so projects are a good way for you not to end up, like, to test it out, you could say.

Yeah, sounds like it.

tested out in the book. And then in that time there, at the same time we were creating, I don't know where it started, maybe I started creating this company called Lifestyles Corporate Wellness. And I'm sure somewhere in that, I believe I needed some more help. And generally when you start with a partner or significant other, you say, you know, what are you weak at? Hey, Joey, can you do this for me? And I knew Joey was really good on computer. I knew she was great at designing things and Systems and organizing, and so naturally sort of Joey worked on the back end of the business, booking massage therapists and doctors and nurses and therapists for our corporate wellness. And I was more doing the sales and the marketing side of it. Naturally went that way, and I think I also squeezed Joey was doing accounts as well at the same time as well.

Nothing changes, does it?

Not my favorite thing, but it does sound

like there's a pattern emerging. I'm imagining here is that when Richard needs help, he knows who to go to and he can identify who that person is. And in this case, it's always Joey. And it sounds like you guys, you do complement each other. And I do know that because I work with both of you. So it's like Richard has bright ideas and Joey knows how to kind of execute and get some of those ideas out. And yeah, I think it works. You obviously do work well together. So Maybe let's take a kind of a dive one way. Is like, is there times when it's hard to work together? I assume that there is. And, you know, is there some kind of roadblocks that you guys have, you know, got over to kind of be in the place that you are?

Yeah, definitely. There's— life is all about roadblocks. And times are forever changing. But I think something really important, and this is for anyone who's working with your significant other to think about, is to always understand their strengths. And we have something between us where we basically say, okay, who has firsthand experience here? So if we come down to a decision that we need to make in our business, and I'm like, okay, so if you have firsthand experience here and you know that you've done this before and you believe it's going to work, let's go with your decision. So if you're really stuck on something, we, we really nut bolt down to that if we're roadblocked. I think also too, it's about communication is key all the time. Yeah. All the time. We also talk about incompletes. I've got an incomplete around this. I don't feel comfortable with this. Let's work out a better way, especially when you have a team that you're working with as well. So if you've had something that's happened personally in your relationship at home, and then you have, you know, a 9 AM team meeting, you can't bring that energy from home about how maybe you're stressed about the kids this morning, Or whatever it may have been into the energy with your team. So it's really important that you establish and understand that in a relationship, there's many levels that we have and there's many challenges that go on. So how can you keep calm amongst that to keep showing up as a leader and bringing the energy that your team deserves even though personally, you may have had like a really challenging morning together? So yeah, always be mindful of the leadership that you bring.

Yeah, it sounds like you have been able to kind of build good boundaries between like, okay, home life, what's happening there, and then, you know, stuff that's happening, you know, at the office or, you know, if it's in studio or wherever. Do you think?

Yes, but I was just seeing Joey's very organized actually in this and she's got 7 points. So I was gonna say like, let's smash out Joey's 7 points and I might choose All right.

All right. We've got— have we done one? What have we done, Joey?

Oh, well, yes. We, you know, I— we spoke about here of understanding, you know, firsthand knowledge. That person gets to make the decision. That's one of them. Something else that's really important is Richard spoke about working on projects and how they're a benefit in you, in what you do. I also think too that you should not work on every project together in your business.

Mm-hmm.

I think that if both of you are exactly the same in everything that you do, it would be very challenging. For us, we complement each other. So Richard is excellent at the vision, the sales and marketing side of things, and I am great at education and bringing our tribe together and looking after our team. So we often come together for projects, but we often spend a lot of time apart within the business working on our own projects and tasks. So if you're going to work with your significant other, it's equally as important to work on projects and tasks together as it is to work on them separately, um, because it creates a space of creativeness for each of you to bring out whatever your inner passion is in the business to push it forward.

Yeah, I think that's excellent.

Yeah, so, so projects also too, when you are working on I think we look at business. So if you've got a fitness studio, okay, this would probably apply in our program called Marketing. We have a lot of business owners that are working with their partner or significant other, same thing, right? And, and what I see in those relationships, I do see that they may not both be in the business, like You know, in the training session, they might not be both personal trainers, but one is doing maybe the the physical training side of it. One is doing the back office and things like that. And I think that's a very powerful combination. I I've probably never we've never been in a situation where we've both been doing exactly the same role. So there might be a clue from that. We're always doing different things. And so mind you, we have pivoted to multiple different businesses. But I do remember times when I was running the business a bit more and Joey was doing her own projects that weren't probably maybe connected as well to the business as they could have been. And I think in that part, Joey didn't really feel that that direction the business we were going was really in tune to her values.

Mm.

And so Joey would take on another path and try to connect that to the business somehow. So, so maybe that's like her kind of quitting. I'm not sure, but definitely working on other projects. But somehow they, they kind of— we try to connect them some way possible. And you don't really realize at the time, especially when you're trying to figure out the right roles for both. But I work, you know, that, that couples are in and out of working in that process. But once you get in the right roles, I think you then just got to create your daily systems that actually work. All the time.

Yeah, interesting.

Definitely. And then that really comes down to, I guess, the, the main vision of where you want to take the business and why you're doing what you're doing every day. So you both need to be on the same page of that vision, mission, and the values that you have in your business, because when it's not congruent with why you're doing what you're doing every day, it makes it hard for both people to be in the same lane pushing the business forward. So it's really important to establish if you haven't created a vision, mission, values statement. I know it's like something which you think, oh, it's so easy. I don't know if I need it. It's really important because if you don't create that, and especially when you grow a team, what happens is your team starts to create a culture for you. So especially when you're working with your partner, one of the first things we did was we sat down and we said, what do we want this business to be like, who do we want to serve? How do we want to help people? And what was our ultimate— like, what's our ultimate goal for this business? Like, where do we want to take this? And then we create our vision, our mission, and then our values, like our core values of what we want for our community, for our team, so that, you know, these are established from us because this is why we went into business, to help in the first place. So making sure that everything stays congruent to who you are, it starts with these 3 elements in essence.

Yeah. Okay, you agree, Rich?

Yes, I agree.

It's all

there. Next question. However, I want to throw some curveballs in there.

Okay.

Because I want to kind of get some facts clear at the moment, is that there's a few things that I think are fundamentally like I want to call it, like these are the rules if you are working, you know, with your partner because they are important. Because what Joey just mentioned that, you know, vision and mission is correct. However, that vision and mission was set many years ago. Like I'm talking about maybe when we first connected on the book and we first had our business together. And it's not like, you know, and I think we've done many sessions of vision, mission with the team and creating that statement. But I think that's set. Those things are set. In experiences. So I wanted to, like, point number 1, I really believe that as a couple running a business, well, the way that we've done things— this is just our journey— is that we've tried to go on as many experiences as possible together.

Mm-hmm.

Instead of, like, when you go overseas, like, we would do a lot of overseas trips and to conferences and events and that kind of stuff. And I've seen it before where one partner would go and they would, you know, go to that event or that conference However, it's the experience of the event or conference or the or the mini holiday or you know you tap on a holiday at the end of your business trip which is really important. And so when you're first progressing, my number one tip is to always go to events and conferences together because what's going to happen is that you might have different conversations. And I remember Joey would have a different conversation and meet some you know Joey you know I remember one event Joey went and met some. amazing people and they're my, some of my best friends today. But she made the introductions because Joey's more the, she's the extrovert. She's going out there and talking and I'm just analyzing one-to-one. She's out there, you know, sort of spreading her wings a little bit. And so you bounce off other people. So basically when there's 2 of you, you actually get double the advantage anywhere you go.

Wow.

And so you want to utilize that and one person will go here, one person will go there. And you'll both hear things in a different way. And so she might be here, I'll be here, but then eventually over the couple days at a conference or event, you're all bringing your people and your learnings together and you're kind of seeing how that works. So I think go to events and go to places, as many things you can together, and that's really important. And number 2, the reason—

Before you jump onto that, if I just can add something in. What happens if we don't go to events together? So we had a few where we didn't go together, and then when Richard came back, I felt like I didn't quite 100% understand what it was he wanted to implement or do. But when I would— was ever at an event or a conference with him and we go together, it's like speeds up the whole process of having him come back and spend, you know, a week debriefing everything. Yeah. Okay, but why, why are they saying to implement that? Like, can you give me— so when Richard comes with a vision, I go to the why or how to get it done. So if I could be at the event, we fast-track everything because I already understand all my logistics are tied together. So I do believe that. And then one bit Richard said was we always tap on a little break afterwards. And the reason why is because if you go to a conference and then you come straight back and you've had no time to debunk. You get back into the habits and routines of life and business, but you haven't had time to think about, okay, what conference did we just go to? What can we actually change or implement here? And how are we going to do this in the next 3 to, you know, 3 to 6 months or year, whatever it may be? So I just wanted to add that in of why we have it, you know, a little bit of debrief time afterwards. It's really important. So I think a lot of people just go to the conference, come back,

And

then where's the debunk time?

Yeah, I, I think there are 2 really great points there to highlight is that one, you, you allow yourself to give each other context by going together. Like, you know, so it's like, it's just a speedier process when somebody has context around like the ideas that you just got from that 5-day conference. And then you have space to then, like, you know, think about it and, you know, chat about it around the pool or, you know, like wherever, wherever you are or whatever that experience is, it's like that, it's that space just to be able to, yeah, just to let it percolate a bit.

And talking about percolating, point number 2 is that if you're not going events and conferences and, you know, you're in a COVID world, you're not going anywhere except your LGA, what you can do, what you can do is that let's talk about, like, I don't think we have any set, like we've had very few set formal meetings where, you know, we'd be there and, you know, okay, Joey, it's meeting time, right? Joey's busy, um, and we're generally busy, and it's, it's very hard if I said, okay, let's, let's have this appointment, let's have this time for us, and it never works. So it's got to be fluid. And that's what I've learned is that, you know, it's nice to say, okay, Wednesday we're going to have a meeting, Joey, I'm going to sit down at a table and bring your notepad and your computer and that kind of stuff. And yes, that works, and we tried that. However, that's the work you do after. And the benefit of working with your partner is that What we've done, and we try to do it regularly, but again, it's probably something we could literally put in our diaries, but we don't. But we do do it. It's just that you want to connect on a— we call it an active process. So sometimes we, on a Wednesday, would go for a walk and just be a walk, or it could be a coffee. It's all casual. Yeah.

And

the conversation is going to come to what we want it to come to. but it's not, it's not forced, it's a bit more in flow. And so that's where whatever we've been working on or the disagreements that we've been going through or things, something may be working well or might not be working enough, is it's going to come out in that conversation and call it maybe 30 minutes, an hour and a half. We just did it the other day. I think it was on a Wednesday and I said, let's go, let's go down to the beach. Didn't have any kids at the time. Or at school, and half the time I was on the phone, half the time Joe was on the phone talking to a girlfriend, I was on the phone talking to somebody else, and then we're off the phone, then we were talking for a bit. But it's in the context, because you know where the game's going,

it's

an important conversation that's very hard to get out. But it gets out when you're, when you're kind of like actively, your brain's active and you're moving, and the both of you there together uninterrupted. That's where true greatness comes out. If you try to force working with your partner and say, okay, they've got to be at this meeting and that meeting, we've never had success in that, in that conversation. That's when you take it to your team or you work separately together and say, right, I'm gonna work on this, this project, or this task might take me forever, or it might take me a week or 2 weeks. And so you come together to ensure that you're on the same path, but then you separate and do your own thing. And then You come together and you separate, come together and you separate. And so that's, that's how we've, I think, been successful together. Do you agree, Joy?

Yeah, definitely. And one of my points here is that you need to create your own space in a relationship. So what I mean by that is because you work together, you live together, we have children together, there's many elements in our day-to-day life together. So you need to create space alone. Uh, so for us, we both go to the gym on certain mornings, which is our own time. I like to go have a pedicure by myself. Uh, I, I like to go for a walk by the beach. I like to meditate by myself. So I have my own interests that help fuel me as a person. And, um, Richard does too. Like, you have your own interests that— So if you are a couple and you're listening to this, Your self-care moments are so important, whether that be going and seeing a friend and that refueling it, like having that time away from each other is just as important as that time together, having that togetherness, if that makes sense.

You know,

as you know, the office in Alexandria, we lived about maybe 5, 7, maybe 10 minutes away depending where we lived at that time. And we would always take 2 cars to work. We would never go to work together because I got frustrated that Joey was on the phone talking to her girlfriend or she was listening to a radio station or music I didn't want to listen to. And I would want to do my like phone calls or chats and things like that. And it just didn't work.

It's a 7-minute car ride, guys.

So because the moments in the morning, magical, magical time. to rewire your thinking is that,

you

know, it's, it's, it's— you've got— you're going— we're not going in there, okay, Joey, at 11 o'clock let's do that, 12 o'clock let's do that. We know what the mission and what we're getting to. And, you know, we're both, you know, working up our mind for the day ahead. And the morning, it's magical time. And so when we are hanging out in the morning, it's because we are wanting to connect And have a conversation of where we're next going or the play we're going. And, and it sometimes doesn't take long when you're having that time together, and then you can execute really clearly because you're both, um, like clear on that. And so don't, don't suffocate the, uh, don't suffocate your, your partner in that point.

Yeah, I, I think, uh, I mean, from what I can hear is A lot of this has come from, from experience. Like, you know, like, you know, you've obviously tried things that didn't work. And so you— like, I, I think, I think it's really important, like, for people to, you know, if they're known as a couple that work together, to have their own alone time. Like, you know, that, that makes sense. And I think that's, that's cool. And then, you know, like, Yeah. Like, supporting each other and making sure that, you know, everyone has kind of that time that they can spend that is You know, their time. And and yeah, I think I think you've made it work because you probably had times when it didn't work. And and and so so now you yeah, you kind of work out things that are good good for you, even if they seem like yeah, like I think some people would be thinking oh like we've got to always work together, we've got to always work on the same project. But actually. don't have to. Like, you just have to work how you work and that's totally okay.

Yes. Yeah, totally. I think that's really important in that decision make— in that decision-making, in that decision-making skill set.

Definitely. Yeah. Cool. I want to know, I don't know if we've got through all these points, but I do want to know I'm gonna ask Joey first and then I'm gonna ask Richard. What is your favorite part about working with Richard?

His vision. He always has a great vision of where he wants to go and what he wants to do and the drive forward, like the drive and the motivation and the passion he has. I love that. Even though sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, how are we going to do that? I still really love that. That definitely working together and him having a big vision on, you know, well, let's do this and then we find a way of how we can do that.

Yeah,

I love that. That's cool. What about you, Rich?

All right. So, okay. So this is what I see. They say that women are pretty powerful. Ev, Joey, I work with all our team. A lot of our team is full of women. And there's something about women that When they get stuck into something, I think they're so powerful, like dominate people, like just push the competition over, like push anybody over in their way if they're really determined. So I know that Joey has power parts of her day, let's call it a month, let's call it, you know, yearly cycles, doesn't matter what it is. But when Joey wants to actually do something and she's 100% on board something, like super powerful, like get it done kind of thing, more faster and better than I could do it, faster and better than I can do it because it's just that direct thing. And I think if, I guess if you allow each partner space, you can get the best out of people. So I think drive when she's on board, but when she's not on board, I mean, that sucks, right? Because the opposite is then, and then it's about convincing. It's about ensuring that, how do I get her on board? Um, then I go, I don't need her on board. And it, it takes— it's harder when, when you, when your significant other, when your partner is not on board. So I think I'm talking to anybody who's like really struggling to work with their partner, is that I think they do. I mean, a lot of the time it's like Joey does it because something's not right. It's, um, her, her internal vision is not right. Her gut is, is not feeling right on the certain project or person or thing that we're doing. Um, she doesn't understand why. And, and I, I think on a good part, that's like having a really good mentor and advisor where they're kind of stopping you before you go down the wrong path, right? One part of it, it's good and it's bad because they sometimes, they won't let you go down that path, right? And you want to go down that path. And in another time, it's good because you can cut the mistakes up relatively fast by having someone you can bounce off relatively, you know, really efficient because something's not working, something's not gelling. So I think where I'm going with that is that it's It is vital that you've got a timeframe to get them on board. If not, it's probably a wrong decision that you shouldn't go down the path and do.

That's interesting.

Yeah, I think too, when you are very, very good at a visionary, you can have lots of amazing creative ideas. So I think sometimes when I don't jump on board so quickly, it's because I'm analyzing slower. So, and I think this is a really good thing with us, like as a couple, because if we both were very driven in vision, then we probably would just be like, you know, jumping into a lot of creative activities, tasks, projects, whatever it may be. And say, hey team, let's go do all this stuff. That's really amazing. But by having one of us in our relationship that's like, hold on, let's, let's Look at this. Let's go. Okay. Can we put this in our 8-week cycle? Can we put this in perhaps our 6-month cycle? Like, uh, Rich has some amazing ideas for new programs he wants to implement. And sometimes I go to Ev and I'm like, Ev, please, we cannot put this in our 8-week cycle.

I don't know if Richard knows this, but we have little conversations, me and Joey.

So I think it's a really, it's actually an advantage of our relationship. do to be very different in those elements.

Yeah, I think so. And I can, I can see how, you know, you guys really have— you've either worked at it or you, you know, already were complementing. Um, so what if somebody— what if like 2— a couple is really similar, they want to work on the same thing, or, you know, they always feel like they're clashing? Like, how can they Kind of get to the point where they're not? Like, yeah, how does that happen?

They are clashing because, I mean, we've just never experienced working on the same project and winning. We've lost every time. So it may work, but we haven't found that formula

yet.

Yeah, clashing, it's most likely because you're suffocating each other. So I think to declutter the suffocation, a couple of things that you could do. Number one, actually set some job, clear job roles and clear job positions. It might sound a bit weird, but doing that, because that then clears the, the boundary to a degree. So I think that's a good thing, being clear on what those roles are. And you might have like 3 things that one person's doing, 4 things the other person's doing. So being clear on that. Uh, number 2, I think focus on the, um, you know, the firsthand experience thing. Who's had the firsthand experience in this? Who understands that? Um, I did— I do think what Joey said is take time Free. I think that's the biggest thing is take time out. Make sure they have the time out as well. And if you're clashing, just send them out and say, go, don't come back for a while, you know. So send them out. Space. Space. Probably number 4, the thing that speeds things up, Joey calls this a little bit time, you call it don't go to bed until your disagreement's cleared. Joey, is that right?

Don't go to bed on an argument. So, or like, complete on something which you feel is like, oh, not right in your gut. So we talk it out so that you can rest peacefully.

And that's talking outside 9 to 5, what people say, you know, work-life balance. I mean, that's, um, um, I think you were doing a podcast. Yeah, it's a myth.

I'm gonna throw it out there.

I was gonna say, like, is it— is that really a thing?

I call it work-life present. Like work, like you've got work and you've got life and you've got living in this present moment. So maybe I just haven't mastered the art of finding the balance, so I can't give that advice personally. But on our journey, you know, we have work and we have life and we have many elements, and it's definitely not 9 to 5 as a couple. So we will often be watching something and a series, and we'll get inspiration from it, like, oh wow, I love that quote, you know, it makes me think about this, and we're happy to share it. Just add a couple points to if a couple is clashing. I think it's really important that you know who your couple is in their love language, in regards to who they are, DISC profiling. So like with us, we know that Richard's a D, I'm an I.

So it's DISC.

So it's a DISC profiling, D-I-S-C. Look it up if you haven't researched into it. It's really great for identifying and understanding a person's strengths. as well in what they're doing, their StrengthsFinder tests. And the reason why you need to understand this is it will break down your conflict or confusion or frustrations. When you can totally understand why a person is being like, for instance, Richard can be quite direct and determined with what he wants and needs. But I'm an I, which is like I'm very happy and uplifted and I don't sometimes want to hear it direct. So when he tells me direct feedback, sometimes I get a bit cut or taken aback and I'm like, oh, but I'm like, okay, no, that's just his D coming out. He doesn't mean it that way. So I can understand him and who he is. But if I don't truly understand that, then I could really go down a rabbit hole of a story in my mind of, oh my gosh, what's going on here in our relationship? Whereas like 2 minutes later, he'll be like, no, I didn't mean it that way. I just meant like, this is the feedback you need to make it better next time. Right. Oh, okay, great, cool. So happy I over here goes, okay, now I understand the why. We're all good. So if you don't understand that, it can be really hard.

And I think you said, oh yeah, The Love Languages is a book as well. And it sort of talks about the different love languages that somebody, you know, wants to, how they want to express that. Mine is time. I like time. What's yours, Joey?

Appreciation.

I probably should

know

that. It sounds like you guys, like from my perspective, it sounds like you actually know yourself well and then you know the other person well. And so that just brings a whole lot of understanding.

Totally. There was an event we went to and I'll give this shout out It was a Tony Robbins event. It was called Unleash the Power Within. It was a 5—

Date with Destiny.

Date with Destiny. No, Date with Destiny, not Unleash the Power. Date with Destiny. That's after Unleash Your Power. Um, we did that in the Gold Coast, probably maybe year 5 of our marriage. Maybe, maybe 5, our marriage. I think it was the best thing we ever did.

Yeah.

And I'd recommend that event anybody that has a partner, if they work or don't work together, I'd definitely go to that event. I think that really transformed how we worked and how we understood each other, and that really, really helped in, in everything like that. Um, so we did that, and as I said, we went to a lot of different self-development conferences and events, and they all helped all the time. And I think, I, I think that's the benefit as well, working with your other partner, is that using that time to invest. We've always had our holidays that way. It's very rare that we go on holiday just for the holiday, nothing work in between. So I think it's such a valuable time because you have that and then you can actually— it's the debrief, as you said, around the pool and hanging out. And that's when ideas and creativity comes.

Yeah.

I think that's a key point that I'd like to That I'd like to take away as well. And also how not to clash. I also think the suffocation. So I wouldn't be checking in daily with your— I mean, this is us. I wouldn't be checking in daily. What we do is once a week we have a meeting. If I want to really get— understand what she's doing on a tactical level, I would set a meeting and say, okay, Joey, let's talk about this. subject. And I would be like, to that point. So it's not a conversation about strategic, it's about, okay, let's have a meeting and address the meeting at a particular time. It doesn't have to be— could be in a coffee shop, whatever, it could be anywhere. But then you got a detail of what you want to go through. And that's, you know, I said before, we don't, you know, generally catch up on a project. When we catch up, it's like, okay, this is now we're gonna talk serious and just get to the point. And, and, and have that meeting with the outcome and the agenda. And you've got to be really clear on that as well because otherwise, you know, yeah, you're not coming together when you're together.

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. I think it would be interesting maybe another episode to talk about the 9 to 5 and how you kind of manage that. I think that's a really— that'd be a really fun one. But this has been really— I think it's been really good. Like even I was like, Oh, this is, you know, this is great. Maybe I might try working with my partner again.

Ask you a question since it's my podcast, right? So, so just to get some context in this conversation. So let's say you are, you have a fitness studio, you have a gym, you have husband and wife or a partner working there. And then you have team members. So if you've been with us, you know, fortunately, we've, we've known each other for 7, I think about 7 years you've been with us. And you've had the, you know, the privilege or the problem working between 2 people, and, you know, me and Joey. And so sometimes my question to you is, how do you— so flip side, as a team member and someone who's known us for a long period, and when you know someone for a long period, you, you know, you have a bigger relationship than just a 9 to 5. How do you find it working, um, with, you know, do you have one person or 2 people you've got to consider? And how do you find that when, let's say, I, I say do something and then Joey says maybe the opposite of that? Do you find that, uh, that you have that, you know, are you, are you like the, the boxing person in the middle, the, the referee? Like—

Sometimes I do act as mediator, guys. Just saying. But no, I actually— it isn't bad. Like, I actually, I think you found a good flow, obviously. And I think, but I mean, you have to remember in that time also, like, Joey, you've had 2 babies. And so you've kind of been in and out. And so I think we just kind of— I feel like I've got to the point where, well, and I think we're all at the point where we're quite independent. We We kind of, everyone knows their roles. And so I kind of know, I know which parent to go to if I need something, like, you know, and I think we just kind of work it that way. But, you know, like there are times when, yeah, I'm calling up Joey and I'm like, Rich has had a really like wild idea. Like, let's just really, you know, get our game plan together about how we're gonna talk to him about that. But then there's other times when, yeah, I talk to Rich and I say, Joey's a bit not sure about that idea. So like I see both sides and I think I see the dynamic play out, you know, in both of that. So I really like it. I think it's a balanced— I think we have a balanced way of working. Yeah.

Totally. So yeah, I think this is— I wanted to bring this episode together because I personally don't think there's enough conversations out there in small business land especially in regards to working with your partner. And, and we just look at this for a second, is that generally with a small business, you've got a studio or gym, um, you're, you're a personal trainer working on your own, it's not sometimes you have an official role that your partner may have an unofficial role in the business.

Yeah.

And so I think that's really also really important to, to mention all the people that don't have job titles, that don't have a job, that aren't recognized in the front. You're most likely working in the back of the business, and I think that's something that there's not that many conversations about. And so I would love to get your feedback on this episode because it's something that we we personally have a lot of experience in, and we have a lot of experience working with small business owners who are asking us these questions all the time. How do you make it work? And so I'm gonna um. I may get Joey back on here. Is that all right, Joey?

I hope so.

Yeah, we'll get Joey back on here and ask some of these really questions as you continue to grow your business, because you grow your business. And mind you, Ev, talking about significant other, just to dissect for a second. And as you know, I've had my brother and sister-in-law work for me as well. Joey's always had family businesses as well. So it does It does touch on the fact that, you know, and that's another episode down the line, you know, family business versus—

Yeah.

Because there is some really considerations that you do want to have depending on the relationship and depending on how much you get that other member to help you out in your business. But it's definitely in small businesses, you've got to make small business work initially, you do need help. And so you're either going to get a partner, you're going to hire help, or you're just going to grind those hours. So if you grind the hours, guess what? Your partner's not going to be happy with you very much, are they?

Yeah.

If you do too many of those grinding hours, that relationship is not going to end that well. And then if you hire somebody and you can't afford them, well then that's going to put strain on your relationship as well. So it's a tricky situation that small business owners have, but I do think it's something that we can definitely explore more of and understanding that. And just before we leave, I do want to put a thought to this. And my good friend Sam Cawthorn from Speakers Institute mentioned this to me one day. He goes, Richard, when you have mentors and when you look at what you want in life, A lot of the time we talk about profit, we talk about money, we talk about sales, and we talk about how many members do you have in your facility. You've also got to take something else into account, and you've got to take the rest of the situation into account. If it took somebody 5, 10, 15, 20 years to create the fitness business of their dreams, what did it cost them in other areas of their life? Did it cost them their relationship? Did it cost them their kids not seeing them? Did it cost them a high-priced divorce? Did it cost them suffering and misery somewhere else? And so I just want to put it in context that sometimes we want to look at the whole process, not just one thing. We need to look at multiple things because what you see on the bright and shiny out there on the social media and how you've had success and 20x your business and all these things, you want to look at the person who's giving that information, giving that advice, and look at what their background is and look what happened to them to get there. Now, not to say that's right or wrong, or not to say, you know, there was other issues going on, but I always want to highlight the fact that where you spend your time, that's where you grow. Where you don't spend your time, you die over in those situations. Again, no right or wrong here, but you've got to focus on what your life wants to look like as a whole, not just one part. And this is what this show is all about. The tagline is, and also love your life. And we want to make sure that as we go through business and we go through understanding about how to work with your partner or how to work with your team, or how much hours I should grind out. You also look at the other side that many people don't speak about, and that's the side that might not be getting the love, the watering, the attention, and that's the actual side that you really want. So, so just look at everything as a hobby when you do get advice or follow people. I mean, when I say follow people, I'm talking about social media, I'm talking about big influencers on social media, um, because when you start to know and get to know people and influencers and And and people that are giving a lot of advice out, you will understand there's a story in the back, and you will understand there's other parts in your life that are miserable. And so again, the reason why I want to bring more of these episodes to you is because we want small business owners, we want health and fitness professionals to continue to grow and to continue to flourish. And you can't do that if your life is not balanced. So I'd love to leave the podcast with that thought, to think about how do we balance a happy life and a happy wife. In my case, I did get some good advice down the years ago, and the advice was a happy, happy life is a happy wife. So that was just my advice that I've gotten. I've tried to, I've tried to use that advice as we go through. So again, this is for all the, you know, guys in my case or females in the other case is that you do have to balance your life up a little bit. So do take stock of what's important and then practice what you want to do with that life that you do want to design.

Amazing. Well, thanks guys for opening up about this subject. I think it's going to help a lot of people.

Amazing. And thank you for, uh, for playing referee today, Ev.

It was easy today. You made it really easy for me.

All right, team. So if you have liked this episode, all you want to do is you want to hit the subscribe button, uh, depending on what platform you are listening to this on. On, on, on Spotify, I know we're on Apple, hopefully when you're hearing this, uh, leave a review. That would— that's the, that's the nicest thing anybody can do, right? Leave a review, subscribe. And if you have loved this episode, and go back, watch the other episodes and share an episode, a direct link to your friend. I always do that sometimes when there's a podcast specifically or a video specifically that I want someone to hear. I just send them that part and I go, listen to part, you know, 10 minutes or 15 minutes. I find that really valuable, especially. And that's what me and Joey actually do too. We do send a lot of Instagram stuff between each other or a picture or a quote. And we just send it and then the other person just knows what it means. So, so it's kind of weird because it's like, that's our conversations when we are not speaking specifically, we're sending something and it's like, Joey knows what that means. And then a couple of days later, I go, did you get that? Oh yeah, yeah, I got that. I got that. That was good.

You are a true digital couple.

Awesome, guys. Thanks so much. We'll speak to you next time on the Marketing Masterclass Podcast Show. And thanks, Joey, also too for jumping in.

Thank you for having me. Bye for now.