S2 Ep 39: Online Training vs Brick and Mortar Fitness Studios
In this episode of the Marketing Muscle Up podcast, host (Speaker A) and coach Ev Chapman discuss the strategic decision fitness business owners face in 2022: continue offering Zoom/online training, return to a physical studio, or adopt a hybrid model. They reference insights from Peloton and ClassPass founders, noting divergent predictions about the future of face‑to‑face fitness. The conversation highlights the benefits of online delivery—greater client reach, flexibility, and a safety net during lockdowns—while acknowledging challenges such as the need for technical competence, camera presence, and the perception that online training is lower‑priced. They stress the importance of having a backend video library on a website to retain clients and reduce cancellations. A detailed case study of a client named Nick illustrates how an online‑only model can be profitable with modest membership numbers (40‑50 clients at $50 per week) if pricing is set correctly and value is delivered. The hosts argue that online trainers must be ten times better than competitors because they lack a physical storefront. They outline three viable paths for fitness entrepreneurs: (1) focus on a high‑quality brick‑and‑mortar experience, (2) offer a hybrid model with both in‑studio and on‑demand Zoom classes, or (3) go fully online, ensuring a sustainable revenue model from the start. The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to decide their direction now, as post‑COVID restrictions ease in Australia, making the choice more feasible than two years ago.
Chapters
Welcome back to the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show. In this show, we show you how to grow your health and fitness business. And pretty much predict the growth to ensure that you have a thriving business. And in this podcast, we show you a whole bunch of different strategies you can use to grow your business. I've been joined with my team member, Ev Chapman. How are you, Ev?
I'm great. How are you?
Very good, thanks. Ev, you've been joining me the last couple episodes. It's been great.
It's been so fun.
Yeah. And if you've listened to any past episodes, Ev is one of our coaches in com marketing, also a specialist in a lot of things tech, but Facebook ads and paid ads.
Yep.
And I wanted to bring you on to talk about next episode, well, this particular episode. And this is kind of a wrap-up of 2022 in regards to a question that I know we both get asked quite a lot and our whole team gets asked quite a lot around the concept of, should I continue with my Zoom slash online training?
Hmm.
Or should I just go back into the brick and mortar studio or gym? And it was interesting because I listened to a Tony Robbins podcast on a few weeks ago, and it was about the interviewing the CEO and— no, the founder of Peloton.
Oh.
And the success they had through COVID. And then directly after that, they had the founder of ClassPass and their journey through COVID. And I don't know if it was planned that way. But it was like back to back and I think it was in the same room and it was like super interesting and totally different messages and different predictions from each one of those leaders. Obviously where Peloton grew dramatically and then also had some massive issues with growth and sacked a lot of staff. And then you had ClassPass who was, you know, Really holding on to, holding on to to continue, and then they also recently got bought out as well. Yeah. From MindBody, and that was interesting. And one of them was predicting that one of them was predicting that face-to-face is going to be the biggest thing, which is obviously ClassPass. Peloton was predicting that nobody's going back. To face-to-face.
That makes sense from both of those. I'd probably predict those 2 things as well.
Yeah. So, it was really, it was a really funny piece and it goes to show you where people are at. But
yeah,
I think, you know, I'm in the middle where—
Yeah.
And I probably lean towards— I mean, in the middle, everybody has a different experience and everybody's in different places. I think that the world is I think you know overall the world is hugely obese and overweight, as we know. The studies and the predictions are there, and that's just that's still there. So I don't think as a fitness industry we've done an amazing job at really getting those numbers down.
Yeah.
But I do think that the opportunity that we have had and people have had is that they can be way more connected to fitness using online. services and easy places they can train instead of going to a venue. That was another case. So yeah, I don't think the issue is that there's business everywhere. And the question is, should you continue or what should you put your focus on? And this is a question that our clients ask all the time. And I've got, I've got a few scenarios around it. So now, you know, I just want to go broad there a little bit. Yeah. But Tactically, you know, what should we do in this period? What are your thoughts so far?
Yeah, I think, you know, as you were talking about that, I thought about like the whole work from home situation. Like there's some people who are like super keen to get back into the office. There's some people who are like, you know what? I'm loving this work from home life. I'm in fact one of those people. But I think, you know, everyone does have a different experience. And sometimes you get into your own little world, and that's obviously— that's where kind of, you know, people think, yes, like, you know, like, um, studios are coming back, or, you know, home studios. But I think that what will happen is there will— it— the same as work from home is people have experienced that. So it'll probably come back into some kind of balance with some— with a hybrid version, um, of, um, of— yeah, like people can choose whether they go into the studio, they They might do a couple of sessions in the studio and then they might do one at home and they kind of have that option.
But it doesn't sometimes help a person who is focused on one process, like a studio owner. And they're saying, well, my client is going off and doing a Peloton session or they're doing an online session. And as a business owner, that's sometimes worrying. I would say, but depending on how you look at it, sometimes it's a positive and sometimes a negative depending how they look at it. But there's some time too, it is a positive as well now because you are in control of what you want to do with your business as well. So that's the first point. For those who are already established business, I think the flexibility of having people to choose. And this question came out the other day and I said, listen, you've got to have the ability to have a backend. I mean, I think the basics right now is— Yes. is to have a backend on your website. If there's another lockdown or if a client goes away on holidays or they can't make the session, give them the opportunity to catch up on the sessions. I think that's an easy one for anybody can do that's in a studio. There's enough classes on and they don't have to be amazing. You just focus on the brick and mortar, but have a backup solution there. I think that's stock standard. That anybody would agree with if, you know, just in case we don't know what's around the corner.
I think so. And I think, you know, like you've filmed hundreds of classes over this time. You know, you could have like a library for people to do, you know, for the next 2 years if you wanted.
Totally. And so that you can definitely put that in your backend of your website in a locked platform. You need help with that?
Yeah.
Go to comcreative.co and they can help you out. Yep. The other concept here is if you are deciding, and we've got a few clients that are deciding to say, okay, I don't want to be running a studio. I don't want to have a physical space.
Yep.
I would like to go all in on the online space. But what I mean by this, I don't mean going online, on the online space and be like a massive influencer with thousands and thousands of people.
Yeah.
And all around the world. Yes, that is definitely a scenario. We're not talking about that. Because I personally think that, you know, a lot of things have got to come together in the right way and the unicorns got to align to be the next superstar out there.
That's hard. I think there's a massive myth that, you know, you can just put yourself out there on Instagram, create a little program and suddenly be famous. And that is not the case.
No, it's not the case. And I look at it like, you know, a movie star. There's so many movie stars, so many people going to Hollywood trying to break it. And there's, you know, there's there's the top elite and they break it in, they're amazing. But there's also people that are just as good as them, but just don't make it. You know, it's all the things have to align. And sometimes it's really frustrating when you're doing all those right things, you're doing all the posting, you're doing everything, but it just didn't click. You know, there's only one, there can be only one at that time, in that space, in that piece, in that environment. And that's just the way it works. And so I'm really want to focus our attention to people that don't physically want to have the studio space, but they're still willing to do the same concepts of, you know, running in a small group or running in a group or running in a one-to-one, but all online. That's exactly what I'm talking about today.
Yeah. I think it's a really good opportunity for people and a way to stand out. Like you might not be able to be that next, you know, big hit or app or, you know, that kind of thing. But having Like having a different model that you run online where you run a small group of people on Zoom. It has that, it's the same when we went from big box gyms into studios. It's that same kind of feel.
Totally. I'm really impressed with one of our clients, Ev. His name's Nick and he came into our program, as you know, and he came in you know, doing a bit of face-to-face. It's based in Melbourne and doing some online things with people that he knew. And, you know, he said, listen, I want to charge about $10 a month and I want to get volume in. And I said, that's totally cool. But there was a big gap to get to there, right?
Yeah.
There's a big gap to say I need 1,000 members to make this work. And so we worked on this process of working back of what he actually needed to make in his back pocket if he was, you know, what we'll actually need revenue-wise. And it's not that much what people need to live off. And then from there, it's like, well, what do you want to do? Where do you want to get to? And so the first step he took was to actually say, okay, I don't actually want to get 100,000 people. I just really want to not have to be in a physical space, but I'm happy to still do writing the programs up, doing groups, things like that. But I just want to do it online. And again, full disclosure here is that to do it online, you do have to be understanding technology. Yeah. You've got to be decent on a camera, a good writer, fluent, easy. It feels natural. It feels good. Just like if you're a studio owner and you love the connection, the face-to-face, the high fives, it's the same concept. It's just that you've got to be good in that world. And it's not for everybody to be natural in using social media apps. And you've got to be really good at that. And I always say, if you're going to be online, you've got to be 10 times better than anybody else in that space because that's the space that you're going to play in. You don't have a sign out the front. And so Nick, you know, took that up. And so I just spoke to him today and
I
think he went from something like $10 to charging $25. And now he decided to charge $50 a week. And, you know, he worked out the numbers of what he actually needs to make, to make it worthwhile and to basically turn his, you know, business around and actually say, okay, well, how much money do I actually need? to make. And it really wasn't that much. It was like 40, 50 clients and he can take away his $100K by providing a great service, decent service, and getting some real results, not for 100,000 people, but just under 100 people. And
yeah,
like who's saying no to that kind of money?
It's a much more manageable number. Like, and if you think about like, if you charge $10, a month, you have to literally 10x that number. And you think, I, you know, when we first went into the pandemic, a lot of our clients, when they went online, reduced their prices and we had to adjust that. And I think there is a stigma online that online training is worth less, which is, I think that we proved absolutely not the case. And I think, you know, if you are thinking that, well, I'll just, I'll just charge less and get volume. It is just as hard to sell somebody into a $10 program a month than it is a $50 program a week. Trust me.
Yeah, totally. And so it makes sense to sell the higher priced product.
Absolutely.
And then as— and the reason why I say that too is because once you're able to bank in dollars so you can eat and survive, Then you have the opportunity to say, okay, cool, this is working for me. I'm taking home some money. So I'm okay. I don't have to get 5 part-time jobs here. Now I can work on volume. Now I can work on different tiers. You know what I mean? There's no problem with that. But we have to first prove the concept that, you know, I wouldn't even say prove the concept. First of all, you have to prove the concept that you can sustain the industry long-term and have a fixed fee that you're— Yeah. walking away with before you're having to go and, you know, flip burgers or mow lawns or, or, you know, do 5 part-time jobs just so you can do your— the career that you love. By the way, if you love your career, you've got to make that career work and you've got to find the way to make money on that career, studio or no studio, or gym or no gym. So yeah, hats off, uh, to Nick, by the way.
Yeah.
Really just readjusting the mindset on that one.
Yeah, I love it. I love Nick, Smooth Operator.
Yep. And, um, he's a typical person that writes content every day.
He does,
does his stories every day. And now he's getting into paid ads and mastering that at the moment.
Yeah. And I think you made a good point about, um, if you do want to go into the online space, as in like a full-time kind of online, you have to be good at that and you have to actually love it. If you're sitting there not loving writing your blog or doing the social media or getting on stories, probably online training isn't for you.
Totally. And you'll know that straight away. You'll know that straight away. So team, some food for thought there to think about is that there's a couple options here. One is to stay in the brick and mortar and do an amazing job of it because people love that. I mean, I love the training. Like I'm definitely a face-to-face when it comes to training.
Me too.
And then you've got the people that, you know, want a hybrid version where they're going to stick with you, but they want a bit of flexibility. So again, what we said is get your Zoom classes on a backend and you can do that and you can own it on your website backend and give them access to that. And that helps the retention, by the way. It helps cancellations over Christmas.
It helps
all that. All that stickiness to say, oh, I'm going away, I can't attend you. Well, there's an online training, so you're going to have less cancellations for sure.
Yeah. Heaps of our clients are doing that over Christmas this year, taking a break, getting people into the online. It's fantastic.
So, so, so good. So definitely do that. That's an easy one. And then the next part is if you are going to move into online, just like Nick and say, listen, I'm I'm not doing that at all. And he's actually moving states, so he doesn't actually have any clients that know him and just say, yeah, let's do a session. So put yourself in a position that first of all is go online, but make sure that you can, you know, you don't have to have that many clients to make a living out of. So— Yeah. You shouldn't be waiting to client number 1,001 before you can, you know, take home a little bit of money. make sure that it's, you know, in those first 10, 20, 30, 40, that you should be able to be taking home a wage, you know, decent wage from that point. And then from there, if it's doing well and you're going well, then you can decide to be, okay, this is going to work. I've got a good traction on. I can start expanding and getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And the world is your oyster. And of course, that will just be outstanding. And yeah, that takes longer amount of time, like anything. It takes a good decade to be that number one person in that space, the person that you dream of. It takes that time. Just look at their backstory. Yeah. And that is the way to get this out. Either way, it's going to require work either way and treat both models as a business. And that's— you treat the model as a business and it will produce a result— clients, revenue, money, longevity, success for what that is for you.
Yeah,
super excited, guys. Online training versus brick and mortar in 2022, it's your choice. I think we've got a lot of choices put aside us this year.
And that's the best thing, isn't it? Choice. Yeah, it's probably a choice you didn't have 2 years ago.
I think that's a good point. It is a choice that you probably didn't have 2 years ago, and For those who wanted to go online, it certainly was a much harder game 2 years ago.
Oh, well, we wouldn't be having this conversation 2 years ago. We would be saying, no, what are you thinking? Totally.
So it has, in Australia at the moment, post-COVID, a lot of restrictions are down. It is now going to make— it's going to decide who's in or who's out. this game. And if you haven't yet made your move, the move would be now. The move would be now to decide which way you're going to go down in 2022 and which line that you decide to go on. So there's some thoughts as we get close to a wrap-up of 2022.
Yep.
2021, sorry. Oh yeah. Wrap-up of 2021. And If you haven't yet thought about, think about that one. There's so many great advantages there. We'll catch you next time on the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show. Bye for now.
