S2 Ep 8: 2022 New Trends And The Biggest Predictions In The Fitness Industry w/ Justin Tamsett

Welcome back to the Marketing Muscle Up Podcast Show. I'm really excited today, not because my name is Richard Turney, because I've got a really special guest in the house. Joining me today. And we are talking all about this thing called new seasons. You know, I've been talking about lately, the new season starting, we're getting out of lockdowns, we're out of lockdowns. Uh, we're getting into a 2022 kind of season. And I want to kind of find out from my fitness friends and experts in industries what they've learned over this time period, what's been happening, not just in Australia, but where can we learn from? And what can we kind of think about what we need to be doing to open up and to feel confidence, and most importantly grow our fitness business? Now there's not a person I thought the best person to get onto this show. We know other than JT Justin Tamset. Welcome to the show, JT.

Hi Richard, how are you? Thanks for having me.

Oh thank you, it's a pleasure. Now for those who don't know JT, let me I've got a little bio. I've got a long bio and a short bio, but. I think a lot of people know JT, and I'll tell you where you may know JT from. He's got a great podcast called The Fitness Business Podcast, if not the number one or close to it, I think, around the world. And it's something like 400 episodes. You've been going for years and years and years on that. Well done for that, by the way, JT. Outstanding.

Thank you.

And you haven't done just that. You've started in this industry being a multi-gym owner. Back in 1988. Now that was before I got my qualifications. So you do have a head start on me there, mate. 1988. And I actually remember you, JT, because I think I applied for a job as a, maybe a year 10 student at your premises. I think I applied for a lot of jobs, JT. Now it was great. And I didn't work there, so I didn't get the job, but I'm pretty sure that was your location. But your name's been around for many years. I'll tell you why, team, if you haven't heard of JT, because he's an international speaker and regarded as the world's foremost thinkers to go industry creating positive impact on communities. As I said, he is the owner of the Fitness Business Podcast and he runs the Fitness Recreation Industry Summit. That's actually coming up in February in 2022. I'm looking forward to attending that. And he does all this to reduce the healthcare costs across the globe by getting more people moving more often. JT, so good to have you here.

Thanks, Rich. I might take you on tour with me if you can do that introduction all the time.

Well, you wrote it. I just read it out. So now, JT, you work a lot in not just Australia and New Zealand, but you're working in Europe, you're working in US, and I don't really want to have this show talking about COVID because we all know what happened over the last 2 years. Everybody knows, and it's affected everybody. And like all industries, we've been heavily affected, the fitness industry. And we are in the fitness industry, so let's talk about the fitness industry. Every industry has been affected, but we have been heavily affected. You know, closed down, lockdowns, you know, have to train out the front of your studio for like 4 months in Victoria. Restrictions. But at the end of the day, it's all coming to an end and it's at the end. And I'm kind of really interested because you always are in the field of play and talking to the right people. And I just want to kind of understand, first of all, what have we learned? What have you learned over the last kind of 2 years of what you saw out there in the marketplace? That's probably the first kind of question I want to kick off to you. What's been the learning so far over the last 2 years, JT?

I think there's a, there's a couple of really important ones, Rich. And the first one is what we've seen in big box clubs especially is cross-training of staff. So every club across the globe coming out of the pandemic has seen reduced income because they've got less members. And, you know, the, the easy variable to change is often wages. So some people have not come back and some people Have come back, and so owners have worked on cross-training. So they might have PTs working on the front desk. They might have PTs teaching group fitness. They might have front desk people doing sales. So generally, what we've seen is this cross-training of staff to keep the wage bill down until the income comes back up, which makes you kind of question: What were they doing three years ago? Were they fat on wages back then? But then that's a whole nother topic. So that's probably the big one that we've seen as a trend is the cross-training of staff.

And when you are cross-training your staff, I mean, you're saying a lot of people are being let off. And so is it the more experienced teams that are still staying on? I mean, is that like who's got the jobs at the moment?

Well, some people aren't actually being let off, they're just not coming back. And, you know, we're seeing in that, particularly in the US, the great wave of resignations occurring across. And we're even, you know, we're hearing that in the media here in Australia. And, and I would assume it's going to happen in New Zealand as well, where people are just deciding, you know what, I don't actually want to work for that company, or I don't want to be in that industry. And let's be frank, um, over the last 2 years here in Australia, why would you want to work in the fitness industry? You know, we love it.

Yep.

But you could get shut down any minute, and therefore you don't earn any income.

Yeah.

So, you know, I do think that there's a challenge there. So what clubs have done in the US particularly is they've just said, you know what, we're gonna, we're gonna keep a real hold on our wage bill. And so as a result, they're not necessarily let people go, they just haven't replaced people as they've come back.

Very interesting. And And are they back or what's the trends over there at the moment in regards to everybody getting back, if you haven't been following the US?

Yeah. Look, again, we'll see this definitely in Australia as well, is there's a definite change in traffic flow through facilities.

Okay.

So what we used to seeing at the gym, as an example, is a 5:30 or 6 o'clock in the morning class jam-packed. Now it's 9:30 because people are working from home. And so as a result, they don't need to be in the gym at 6 o'clock in the morning. They can get up, do a couple of hours work, and then go and jump in at a 9:30 class or a lunchtime class. And, and what we've seen is a real change in traffic going through the boxes.

Wow. So, so interesting. Just yesterday afternoon, we have one of our clients, our Ninja Program, and they have a gym Maryland's about 850, 900 members. And they said the exact same thing that you're saying, JT. They said, we are just— there's no peak time anymore. It's peak time all day long. And really interesting because they're now trying to figure out how we can make it work. And they're going to go, okay, then we need more staff. And they're trying to figure out, well, is this going to stay long-term? Is this a thing that's going to stay? Do you think it's going to stay? Like, are we just in this bubble for 6 months, JT, where everybody's kind of still at home? Do you think it will ever go back to that peak time, AM and PM?

I think that's going to be determined by forces way greater than us, and that is when people go back to work in CBD clubs. So again, you think about the traffic flow. Fitness Lifestyle Group has Goodlife and Fitness First as their 2 big brands. They've seen huge traffic flows in their suburban clubs because there's no one in their city clubs because no one's at work. So what we're going to see, is it going to go back to an early morning, late afternoon, early evening class? That's going to be determined by when people go back into the CBD for work.

Really interesting. So kind of make it while the sun is shining. It's kind of what I took off that, where if you are in a suburban club and this is happening to you right now, it sounds to me that this is an opportunity to actually retain those members and understand them and get them results. Is that Would you agree with that, JT?

Yeah, look, I would. I think that kind of brings you to the third, I guess, trend or observation that we've made, is that the clubs, regardless of their size, the clubs that have built the strongest communities are the ones that are coming out the strongest.

The

ones that are bouncing back with a community are the ones that are proving members are coming back, staff are coming back. Unfortunately, those that didn't have a community before the pandemic hit, that horse is well and truly out the gate. And it's way— you can't build it now because everybody's gone.

Yeah. I mean, that point there resonates so much. I mean, when you're dealing with, as you know, we've got our clients all around Australia and Melbourne and New Zealand and Sydney. And then you've got to— every day my heart is feeling for these guys. And then 4 months in Sydney, just the current lockdown that's just finished. And then coming out of it, our clients work so much on community, community, community, community over the last few years. And then all of a sudden, they're coming out with record numbers. And it makes your point exactly what you're saying. They went in strong, not weak, and they're coming out strong where there are, I know, a whole bunch of businesses that have decided not to open up again. But also possibly going in weak in the first place, or, or half-baked, or in a struggle position already. And they're the ones that are, I'm assuming, are closing down that you're seeing too.

Well, they're not necessarily closing down, but there's certainly, um, you know, there's, there's issues with the number of members coming back. And, um, I think for some of those clubs, they're facing the reality that people were just paying every week, fortnight, or month renting equipment. That's all, that's all their dues were, was just to rent equipment. But other facilities where they were building a community and trying to connect people, they're the ones that have, as we say, have come back strongly. Um, and it's too late, it's too late now to try to build a community if you haven't already. It's time now to start building one moving forward, which again brings me to the next one. See how this is all coming together like an eagle?

Love it, JT. See, you can see how JT's so experienced in in podcasting here. I love this. I'm learning a few tricks off you, JT.

So the next, you know, kind of the next trend that we've seen, um, is that lots of businesses are now, I guess, repositioning themselves based on an updated purpose.

So tell me more.

Yeah, what we, what we know from consumers, not, not gym goers and not, not gym goers, but consumers in general, Is that consumers want to connect with, buy from, and be and be a customer of a brand who has a a deeper purpose? Like why are they in business?

Like impact their impact they want to put to the world, right?

Yeah, their impact on the world. Now whether that's that they want to be you know a green business around climate change, we see we're seeing that obviously at the moment through the media as a big. issue. But it's also, we're seeing, particularly in the US, the repurposing of— the updating of a purpose is around the health of the community. And so what we're seeing is, I guess, people positioning their businesses to improve the identity of individuals. So individuals can say, I'm active and healthy. And the side effect is that they lose weight or that they get big biceps or that they've got ripped abs. But the primary thing that we're seeing in the US is people are wanting to be able to say, I'm active and I'm contributing to improving my own health. Lots of people are walking into gyms and that's their— that's why they want to join gyms. Well, it's not for weight loss.

Why do you think that switch has changed, JT? Has it had more time to reflect through the COVID and what's important to them?

I think absolutely that's number one. Number 2 is the comorbidity factors led to lots of deaths from COVID So whether that was diabetes, overweight, whatever the case may be, wow, we saw lots of people pass away because of— not just— not because of COVID necessarily, but because of all the other factors that contributed.

Well, I'm so glad you said that because this is the first time I've heard this I mean, not for the deaths of COVID but I mean, well, I mean, it's, it makes perfectly sense, but you obviously are not hearing that in the media that this person who died of COVID they had a lot of preconditionings, but that's really interesting. When, if that's what people are starting to recognize, I, I, I love that concept because that's really what, um, that's really, you know, I think there's a lot of good quality fitness professionals in this industry that have a much bigger purpose than growing the biceps and triceps. And I think we're very positioned. I can speak for Australia and New Zealand that are positioned for that opportunity, I would say.

Yeah. Look, I think we are. I think we have 2 challenges. One is businesses, and this is where you step up to the mark. Businesses are not good at articulating what their purpose is. In my introduction, my purpose is very clear, to get more people moving more often to reduce the healthcare costs around the globe. That's my purpose. That's why I get up every day. Um, and it's— it has taken me some years to be able to articulate that. Now, the average gym, the average personal trainer who might work in the park, the average one struggles with that articulation.

Totally, totally, totally.

So that's where, you know, you, you can step up from com marketing is to help them craft the right language around what that is. And I've got to say this, Rich. Years ago, I wanted to donate. I wanted to run in my business a charity and raise money for the McGrath Foundation.

Yes.

And I spoke to somebody who works closely with charities and she said, well, why do you want to do that? And I said, well, it's kind of the big charity and I just think it's a good thing to do. And she said, do you know anyone that's ever had breast cancer? I said, no. She said, well, why would you do it then? And so this becomes the key factor when you're really looking at your purpose is that you've got to have that purpose has to link back to you in some personal way. You don't just jump on the bandwagon and say, oh, we're going to get people healthy because that's what we have to do. It's got to actually mean something to you.

I love that. You know, it's interesting. I used to work on cruise ships, JT, back when I was a young lad. And I wrote a book years and years ago. It was called Please, Mom, Don't Supersize Me. And I wrote that on a cruise ship because what I saw firsthand, I saw a mother and a father, and then I saw them walking with their kids next to them, morbidly obese. And I got off that cruise ship and I wrote my book for 2 years in my parents' caravan. And I was so motivated to keep writing that because I saw firsthand where the problem lies. And I think what you're saying there is spot on the money. And I think this is a massive opportunity, you know, for the Australian fitness industry to really figure out, you know, we call it the impact statement or what's their why, what's their mission. I think that's just a great piece of marketing there.

And can I just say on that, Geez, I sounded like a politician after listening to all those presses, can I just

say?

But I think this is so critical in your marketing mix, this positioning statement, because I would guarantee if you get this right, no one else in the marketplace will have that same why or that same purpose. So there's your straight differentiating factor between you and everybody else.

Love it. And we love that on the Marketing Muscle-Up Show. We do need to make sure we stand out. We need to make sure we're different. And JT's spot on the money, that one. You're never ever going to get somebody that's going to have the same statement as you unless you literally copy theirs. So I think that's a solid, solid point,

JT. So going back to kind of other trends, I'll kind of finish with maybe one or two others. What we've seen again in the US is business owners making really tough decisions. And what I mean by tough decisions, it's getting rid of unprofitable products and services in our business. And it's, I guess it's rationalizing or streamlining how we do things. So they've really cast a ruler over every component of their business to determine whether it's profitable. And what that often means is that those passion projects that we just do, they're getting rid of them.

Wow. And

that's a hard and that's a tough decision, but it's a business decision at the moment that they have to do in order to stay in business.

Yeah. That's a really good point, JT. And I think there's a lot of passion businesses, but also side passions in a mainstream business. It's like, yeah, tightening the belt, tightening that belt to ensure that our main business is flowing. I think that's a solid point. And I think it's an important one to consistently grow. I think that's something that everybody listening here is like, what is the side project or thing or task that you've been working on that's not really growing, but is taking 80% of your time up? You're sort of saying cut that off and focus on where the money is in the nicest way. Said that. Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. And, and you would know this again, and your clients would know this, that some of them are made for online training and some of them are not made for online training. Some of them are made for one-on-one PT and some of them are not made for group and vice versa.

Yep.

So you've really got to go, you know what, the idea of a laptop on a beach and doing online training is great, But it doesn't fit with me. So I need to get rid of that out of my business and I've got to go back to the face-to-face and work on what that looks like. And that becomes the big challenge for them. It's that tough decision because everybody else is saying, do this, do this, do this. But if it doesn't fit for you, get out.

No, that's perfect. We're speaking the same language. And first of all, on that point, laptops on the beach, they're hard to work, JT. The sun gets in the computer. It's very glary. Doesn't work.

You never want to get sand in your cracks either.

Yeah, that is true. That is true. Okay. So that doesn't work, but I like the concept here is that you do have to figure out what you want to do. And if you haven't figured that by now through the last 2 years, I've certainly seen a lot of changes in the way that people do the work. I had a client yesterday that called me up and said, Richard, I want to sell my studio I've been working on for 5 years. Actually, got a big acreage. I want to put a studio in my shed at the back there and do what I really wanted to do. And I'm having more of these conversations that people are kind of getting to their endpoint now. And I think it's great. I think it's sped— it's got rid of the crap. It's sped things up. And the people that are here are wanting to be here and the people that have wanted to get out for so long are out. It's kind of like a cycle in life. It always happens. It's either depression, it's a pandemic, it's a It's a recession. There's always a cycle that happens, and this cycle was, um, was the pandemic. But I think that's a really valid point there, JT.

The pandemic is the Darwinian approach to the fitness industry.

Wow.

So only the strong survive.

That is true, guys. If you're listening to this, you are the strong. And, um, I'm loving this conversation. So guys, what have you got so far out of this first part? I love conversations like this because the way I learn, JT, is listening and kind of figuring things out. And I think through the pandemic, nobody has the answers. Nobody understands what we have to do next. But what I do believe is that when you listen to people that have a lot of different conversations with a lot of different people, You know, you've just got to think, hey, is there— does this make sense? Am I seeing this happen? Okay, I'm hearing this. Let's make a decision because nobody has the answer, but we can sort of see what's happening in the marketplace in Europe, in America. It's great that you gave us those insights. Thanks, JT.

My pleasure. So I think that's kind of— obviously outdoor training is a trend that's continuing. That's not going anywhere. We're also seeing ecosystems of entire technology being taken up. So a big company in the US called ABC Fitness Solutions, they're a billing company, they're a software company. They now also own Trainerize, they own Gym Sales, and they also own FitnessBI, which is an AI product for predicting financials for businesses.

Yep.

We've got KeepMe, So they do retention strategies that lock into your software packages. They've got a sales program as well. So we've got lots of like complete ecosystems. Now, they may not be the right model for some of your clients at this point, but those small businesses will get to the point where these things are financially viable for them. in the next coming 2 to 3 years, and that's going to be their success. And we call this the Amazon effect in our business.

Just touching on that for a second, there's a lot of PTs and fitness operators that have decided not to use technology. I know you've got a technology summit coming up in February and talking all about technology, but do you think that it's time that as an industry, we all kind of get a little bit more technical focused, especially what people have had to go through the last 2 years? I know there's also people there that are thinking they're the next online trainer because everybody went on Zoom. But somewhere we've got to— is it a time that we should all up our technology so we can retain and be diversified or not?

Well, I don't think ignorance around technology is your excuse for not not being involved. And I've seen, and you probably have seen, you know, many pictures of somebody with their head in the sand and people talk about, you know, I don't want to be involved with technology, you know, I'm just gonna put my head in the sand. The problem when you've got your head in the sand is you've got a part of your anatomy that's poking up and it's completely unguarded. So you really cannot put your head in the sand around technology. You've just got to work out where it fits in your business model.

Got you. Okay.

And when you know that, then you can embrace it. But if you don't, like if you're going technology first, business model second, I think that's a weakness. You start with your business model and then work out how technology can fit into that model. And if in fact it does, it may not.

Yeah. Great insights there. Great insights. All right. Let's change the tone a little bit. This is called the Marketing Muscle-Up Podcast Show. And so far, All those strategies that you've just mentioned and the trends I'm sort of seeing right now going in my head going, wow, there's some huge marketing forefronts that anybody can take away this conversation and really action those. But I'm also interested in your background, JT. You've been in this space for one, the longest teaching business owners and leading the way. in marketing. What are your— when you look at marketing, you've had a gym in the early days, you do very good in systems and marketing and that. And now you've got a company called Active Management. I get your newsletters every single week. You've got a podcast show, you've got Recs Roundtables. We've got an event— sorry, a summit coming up in February for technology. What are the 3 you think, if I can just put a number on it, what are the 3 non-negotiable marketing activities that you've seen in your entire career that you still do today that, you know, once you do it, it works?

Wow. Okay.

I like big questions, JT.

Yeah. Number one for me is belly-to-belly contact.

Okay.

Like from a marketing perspective, you can't beat getting face-to-face with a customer. Even post-COVID, Zoom is great. We're all Zoomed out. If this is as basic as we can get for contact, then we use that. But you really cannot beat getting belly to belly with a customer. So whether that's in a shopping center, whether that's inviting them in and having open days or free boot camps on a Saturday or a Sunday, any opportunity that you get to get belly to belly with a customer, Or a prospect, I should say, will increase your odds of making them a customer or a client.

Excellent. I think also too, moving forward, that will even heighten up because if you're going to stick on Zoom for the next 5 years when other people won't, you will be lost.

Yeah.

Love it. All right. Awesome.

So number 2 marketing strategy is, interestingly enough, I'm a big fan of Going back to letterbox drops.

Good old letterbox drops. Hustle hard method. Nothing beats that. Tell me about the theory on letterbox drops.

Well, there are 2 theories. Number one is when you letterbox drop, you control your message and you control where it's going. We all saw the world grind to a halt a couple of weeks ago when Facebook shut down for a few hours. I mean, so many businesses So many businesses are playing on the racecourse of Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or Snapchat. If any of them shut down, you're screwed. Whereas if you go back to those letterbox drops, you can do 500 houses around your studio or 1,000 houses around your studio. I remember working with a client in Melbourne on one of our roundtables, and he plotted all of his members on a map.

Yep.

And he was letterboxing like 10,000 houses, like big scope, and he plotted all his members. All his members lived within 3 minutes' walk of his studio. So all of a sudden then he went, instead of printing 10,000 flyers, he printed 1,500 and brought it in because he was able to identify Exactly where his customers were coming from.

And I bet he delivered them himself instead of using an external company, right?

So he knew that they were landing in people's letterboxes. Exactly right.

Yes.

So I think there's less direct mail in our letterboxes, so we've got more chance of it getting looked at. But the other thing with letterbox drops, Rich, Is, and I'm sure you and Joey have this, do you have the drawer at home where you keep all the takeaway menus?

Well, yes, because we need takeaway menus now. We've moved to a place called Wombi on Sunshine Coast. There's no Uber Eats here, JT. So we're keeping those menus there.

Well, people who are probably north of 40 years of age also have a drawer or a cupboard where all these menus are kept. So when your flyer arrives, It often sits on the kitchen bench for 3 or 4 weeks. And then the owner of the house goes, I'm not ready to join the gym yet, but I don't want to throw that out because I might go to the gym in 3 months. Because it's about timing, of course. So they put that in the drawer and then all of a sudden they're pulling out a menu and they go, ah, the gym, I'm ready to join.

Love it. Love it. And you know what, JT? We've been floating the letterbox now for the last few months. In one of our strategies. And what's been working well is actually undesigning the flyer. So going back to black and white, going back to bringing big logos out and really focusing on just what you are straight away. And because everybody's going so flashy and what you said, it's just getting attention. The whole idea is to get attention in a letterbox. And yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter for us. I think it's great because You know, Facebook ads are up there expensive. At the end of the day, it's, it's where the attention is being spotted. Just on, just even on awareness video ad, you can do for 2 cents on Facebook. Is that if they read that out, if they read that flyer out, guess what? They're going to be served ads in Facebook in awareness anyway. So it's just the best thing, these flyers. I mean, a couple years ago I said, nah, waste your time on flyers. But lately I think they're a hot property at the moment.

And the cool thing out of COVID is that we're all used to QR codes.

Yes.

So you can have a flyer with a QR code that takes you to a very specific landing page on your website.

Now it's trackable. Now it's trackable.

Got it.

Very good. Love it. Love it. What's the third thing, Jay? Have we done 3 or is that 2?

That's 2. My third one that I guess non-negotiable from a marketing perspective, and our industry is I think, horrific at this, and that is tapping into what the Americans call the alumni members, the ex-members, the former members. Every single business on the planet has this pot of ex-members who at one stage loved your brand because they joined and loved exercise because they joined. And I'm pretty sure from when I owned my club, not everybody that canceled who said that they moved house actually moved house.

You think? Yeah.

So I, I— there's this huge pot of people that we haven't worked out how to remarket to, and I think that is a huge opportunity for us, and we need to be remarketing to them. And, and again, as a marketer, Rich, you'll appreciate this. It's not going back with endless offers of no joining fee, first month free. It's about rebuilding the relationship with good content and education and the breadcrumb marketing style to get them back.

I love it. I love it because the offers have gone out. We've seen them all before. Hit them, hit them, hit them, hit them. We're sort of— what you're saying is put more content in their face. The game has changed, things have changed. They might have moved, but they might have moved back. And I think, yeah, and even guys, if you do have a big database, you can always upload that to a digital platform like Facebook and then remarket those on Facebook and letterbox drops, and you got everybody that way. So I think it's a great strategy, JT. I mean, emails, as always, I always say email them, keep emailing them until They're either unsubscribed or dead.

I agree with that. I totally agree.

And I think the greatest compliment— I subscribed to your email maybe 10 years ago. I'm still getting your emails. They're always in inboxes. Sometimes you watch, sometimes you don't watch, but people don't unsubscribe unless something really dramatically happens.

The greatest compliment any of the listeners can get when it comes to marketing, when somebody joins their club, when they say, so how did you find out about us? Which everybody asks. The greatest compliment can be, I I'm not sure. I see you everywhere.

Oh yeah, the one they don't know where they found you from. That's great. Good insights there, JT. Guys, these are great, uh, great conversations all about marketing. I've got 2 more quick questions for you, JT, and I'll let you go. What do you think— you've been in industry for quite a while— what do you think is the number one thing that you need to have longevity in the industry, especially, you know, coming out of COVID What's the, what's the one thing that kept you going in the industry, JT? I know you've changed different roles, but You've still stayed in this industry?

So I've got, I've got 3 and I'll do them real quick for you.

Oh, we can do 3.

Hungry, humble, and healthy.

Triple H.

So hungry, you have to want to know more about business. You have to want to know more about businesses, not best necessarily best business practices because that's pretty boring shit, but you've got to want to know about business. You've got to want to know about consumer and business trends. And if you don't look outside the fitness industry, you're only going to be as good as the fitness industry.

Very good insight.

So that's being hungry. Humble. Well, you don't know everything. And the day that this— the day that you say that you do know everything is the day that you should close your business, because the slide will then begin to happen. So you have to always remain humble, wanting to learn new things. And then healthy. I've learned this personally, but I've also seen this across multiple owners and staff, is that you need to be physically, mentally, and financially healthy.

I liked how you had financially in there too, JT.

Yep. You cannot personally or business-wise not be financially healthy. But if you also, you know, if you're not physically healthy or you're not mentally healthy, And this has been a really trying time for many owners over the last 24 months around the globe. If you're not mentally healthy, you're not going to lead a team. You're not going to be able to lead a business. You're not going to be able to think clearly. If you're not physically healthy, I mean, we're in the fitness industry, so we should be working out. We should be working out for our own health. We should be doing it.

Yeah, that's great. Really good insights there. Awesome.

So hungry, humble, and healthy.

Love it, love it, love it, love it. Okay, JT, this is a personal one for me. Now we've relaunched this podcast, did 40 episodes in 40 days. Now, JT, what do I have to do to keep going? What has been the lesson for you in the journey of having the leading fitness business podcast in the world? What's, what's the, what's the number one thing that I need to look for, JT?

Well, first of all, first of all, podcasting looks sexy and it looks easy. And podcasting is sexy and it is easy to do, but great podcasting requires a lot of behind-the-scenes work, as you're experiencing. Um, it's not as simple as people think, and I would be happy to, to bite— to debate with any owner or PT that podcasting will actually bring them new clients. I could actually suggest, and probably you could, at least 1,000 other activities that they could be doing to generate leads in their local community than spending time developing a podcast. So the lessons that we've learned is, number one, is you've got to be consistent. And that means for us, we always have 2 or 3 shows prerecorded in the can, ready to go, rather than, shit, it's Monday and I've got to get a podcast out on Wednesday. I've got to find a guest, I've got to record it, and I'm so busy. All of a sudden, then you lose the impetus.

Got it.

And the interesting thing around consistency is the average podcast lasts either 3 months or 7 episodes. And then goes dark.

Love it. Good insight.

Number one is consistency. Number 2 is stickiness. So what we know at the end of every podcast, Rich, is that we've got to give them a reason to come back next week or listen to the next show. The power of anticipation is critical. It fires a chemical inside our brain that makes us tweak and goes, geez, I've got to get back next week because I want to listen to that person that's being interviewed or tomorrow or whatever the consistency is. Number 4 is we've got to realize as a podcaster that it's nearly impossible to take someone from an auditory medium to Google or to a website. So what we often talk about in podcasting world is that, you know, here's the link to this, but But I'm listening to your podcast while I'm on a treadmill or while I'm running or while I'm walking. So it's great brand awareness, but we've got to have really good show notes. We've got to have those links so we can say to people, go to our website, get the show notes, and therefore that's going to take you back to where the guest has said you need to go to. If we rely solely on the auditory medium, they don't do it.

Makes sense.

Number 5 is— sorry, number 4 is you need to be organized ahead of schedule, which you are going through your process. You know, I've got no, no easy fixes there because you've nailed it all. You've got to be organized, you've got to communicate with your guests, make sure that they're comfortable coming in. And then number 3— sorry, number 5 is that you need to have a monetization behind your, your model. So whether that's, um, the idea being a lead generator, uh, but if you're a PT or a gym owner, you've got to work out how you're going to monetize your podcast. And I think, as I said before, you and I could come up with 1,000 other ways for them to spend their energy.

I think so.

Getting leads that lead to sales rather than necessarily podcasting.

Totally. I like letterbox drop personally, JT.

Yeah, I'm with you on that too.

I mean, if we went into business together, we do letterbox drops and Good old days. Happy days.

You can you can do half the catchman area. I'll do the other half.

JT, thanks for those tips on the podcasting. I'm going to take a whole bunch of those up for hours, and and congratulations on on having a leading fitness business podcast. And I do want to talk about one thing, guys. If you haven't listened to JT's podcast, go and check it out. I'll make sure it does have the show notes on JT. And I want to talk quickly before you head off just about what's happening next year in February. You've got a you've got the first Eventon of the Year in Sydney, all about technology. Can you just give us a quick, quick plug for that one?

Yeah, sure. So, um, it's, it's open to owners. So whether you're a PT business owner, studio owner, or a club owner, it's perfect for you. And what we're trying to do is, again, going back to one of the things I said earlier, we're trying to look outside the industry and bring Outside technology experts in to teach us about tech. Unfortunately, for most people in the fitness industry, when you talk about technology, the first thing that springs to mind is Facebook ads. That is just a pimple on the entire globe of technology. So we're talking about geo-targeting, geo-fencing in a marketing perspective. We're going to be talking about building loyalty programs. I've actually got the author of Loyalty Programs: The Complete Guide, coming to speak.

Great.

And we've got someone coming who's a behaviorist looking at all the data of how consumers are actually behaving and what that looks like for our industry. So we've got— we actually have a whole schedule of people coming who are not based in the industry. So that, number one, is a great reason to come. Number two, is you're going to get to meet people again.

Right, real people, you mean?

Yeah, like real people. You can even probably elbow bump, and maybe by then we can high five because we'll be all double vaxxed. Um, so you'd actually be able to connect with people, which we haven't been able to do for, for so long. So, um, you know, they're the 2 main reasons. Uh, number 3, of course, we have a COVID guarantee that if you get locked down and you can't come, we'll give you 100% of your money back.

How good's that?

Um, so yeah, look, we're really looking forward to it. We've got a little trade show, great supporters and sponsors that have been involved, uh, with this since day one. So, um, yeah, it would be great to have people along.

Looking forward to it. Looking forward to, uh, jumping in on that one in February. JT, it's been an outstanding interview. It's been a while too, so I'm glad you, uh, jumped on here. And I think I'll be calling you up for the next set of insights and what's happening in industry Um, very shortly in 2022.

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Thanks, JT. Guys, if you like this episode and enjoyed it, be sure to share it. All you have to do is copy the link and you might want to message somebody that you know, give them a text message and say, listen, at this 20-minute mark, JT was talking about letterbox drops and that might be really insightful for them. Uh, that's the easiest way to share it. Sometimes just one-to-one share is really good. Review it if you love it. And, um, if you're a JT fan, just make sure you give him a big high five when you see him at the event in February. Thanks guys, I'll see you next time on the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show.