S3 Ep 27: Selling Your Fitness Service With Love Featuring Jason Marc Campbell

Welcome to the Marketing Muscle Up Podcast Show. I'm Richard Turtungi, and today we've got a very special guest. We're talking all about sales, we're talking all about love. And I've known Jason for a few years now, and he's a person that really does things differently on many different topics. And this is one. He's a bestselling author, and I wanted to introduce you to Jason. He focuses on earning integrity and expanding your impact. At the moment, he's on a mission to help small business owners, so it's perfect for fitness professionals. And help, help you guys to improve sales reluctance to embrace a beautiful activity that transforms lives. Now, he's worked for Mindvalley, the personal growth education company, for 7 years. I spent a lot of time doing some really cool things with Mindvalley and the events they have. He's responsible for million-dollar product launches, handling the PR for New York Times bestselling books, launching the very first membership platforms, selling thousands of people 1-month-long events and bringing in top-level authors who published by that company. Jason still is an author and hosts on the platform. Now, I met Jason about 5, 6 years ago. I remember doing a video. I went to, I think it was Malaysia at the time, in his office. And he was talking about this subject, selling with love. And I thought, I've got to bring Jason on this podcast to talk about his brand new bestselling book. Jason, welcome to the call.

Richard, it's a pleasure to be here. And yeah, I just had this memory come back to my mind of us talking about this concept probably around that 5, 6 years ago where the thing has evolved so much from there. And so I'm excited to give you the refresher.

So good. Yeah, it's been a while. Been a while. And I actually love the journey of life. I love the journey of staying in contact with people and then you don't speak to someone for a while and then you say, oh my gosh, they've been doing all these things. And it's a beautiful journey when someone stays in their lane and someone stays in their zone pretty much. And I've been seeing you doing that. And then somehow we— I said, hey, I came across your stuff. And I said, Joey— actually Joey, my wife said, hey, Jason's got a new book out. Oh, cool. Let me let me chat to him, see what's going on. And then you're also speaking at our immersive event that's coming up. And I thought, I've got to really talk about this subject, Selling Love, because this is one of the biggest problems that I feel that this particular industry, the fitness industry, has a problem with, a massive problem with, Jason. Because I call this industry hearts and entrepreneurs. And I do believe that a lot of people like the industry. They're amazing at what we do. We can help people transform lives, lose a lot of weight, have more confidence about themselves. Yet when it comes to asking for a credit card or when it comes to asking for, you know, do you want to join our amazing program that's going to deliver so much? It's almost like we go into some kind of ball of doubt and lack of confidence and struggles. And then we get in our head saying, well, it's okay, we don't really need to grow. It's okay with the clients we have. It's okay, we'll just get some referrals sometimes. And I think, you know, what you talk about in Selling Love, I'm going to ask you some questions here about the updated version from 5 years ago. I think it really does change the way that we look at sales.

Yeah.

And so that's where I wanted to kickstart this whole journey of, I mean, you've obviously seen this firsthand with coaches, Yeah. Why did you really go down this line of selling with love?

Yeah. I've noticed that this is a struggle that happens a lot in a lot of industries. And particularly if you're talking about, if you're a fitness coach, you're listening to this, you own a gym, you're in the health and fitness space, you're more than likely someone that's really passionate about seeing the transformation that people go through. And what's beautiful about that space, particularly that no other space really can claim as much fame to, is that you get to visually see the transformation into people, right? You've walked people through from being a certain weight to a new weight— measurable, tangible. But in the not so measurable, not so tangible, you've seen people's personalities, their, their self-confidence, their attitude, their emotions, the way they show up completely transform. Because once you've taken care of the body, you know, the rest of the mind gets taken care of as well. So you've, you have these visceral personal experiences that you've seen people go from A to B in beast being so much greater than what it was before. And you were their guide, you were involved in that process, you played a part. And that's a beautiful thing. And what I find myself being heartbroken with is that there's so many businesses that are out there, ethical businesses, you know, impact-focused businesses that really want to make a difference in the world, whether that's at a micro scale by working one-on-one with, you know, a few clients, others that are building mega corporations that really want to shift the the planet in a way that it's going to solve some genuine problems that are going to impact millions of lives, right?

Yeah.

So the scale of the impact isn't as important as the intent for impact. You're coming in and building this with a, you know, a premise that you want to make a transformation happen, you want to make an impact happen. And what breaks my heart is I've noticed that the majority of the people that come from this energy have also embodied or embedded or inherited this reluctance within sales, like having this hesitation with sales, looking at sales being like, oh, it's yucky. It's necessary evil that exists within my business for me to even, you know, do what I really love doing, which is walking people through this transformation. And what's sad is that it gives space for the less ethical businesses, the ones that might not care about the impact as much, that just learn the process of selling, use it, manipulate,

and

it actually takes away the reputation of an entire industry. And I know the health and fitness industry is one of them that has been affected by that. There are people that will come into the market and really press the buttons, really manipulate, maybe not care as much about the transformation.

And

you're sad to see that they're having some growth because they've been selling while you've been wanting to do the right thing and you can't grow. So is there no hope? I'm here to say that there is, and there's a prescription.

Well, um, you nailed it on the head. Like, you see other people doing the sales and you go, oh, that's bad, I can't do that, so I don't sell. It's, it really, you know, there's so much competition in the fitness industry. Um, there's a studio opening up at every street corner, there's another personal trainer, and we definitely get in our head that way. We say, well, they, you know, I don't want to be that person, so I'm not going to sell. And is that why you think the resistance or the hating sales exists? Is it, is it, is there more than that? Like, what, what— talk about that. What's the resistance? that people hate sales? Where does it come from?

Yeah, it's, um, it's interesting. For those of you who have maybe done some personal growth, maybe some therapy, uh, maybe you've studied some of the Carl Jung stuff, we talk about, uh, one of the concepts being shadow material. I don't know if you've, you've heard about this term, Richard.

Yep.

Um, so shadow material, it's almost this thing that we completely dissociate with ourselves and we get to observe it from a third party and say, look over there, that's the bad people, or that's the bad thing. And what happens to sales is we might've actually witnessed negative sales, you know, experiences in our own life or through the lens of another, maybe through the media. We've been given examples of bad sales and the bad sales exist because guess what? There are no regulations for you to become a salesperson. There's no training necessary. You can put it up as a job title. A lot of companies, that's all they do. They just hire anybody who couldn't get in their original career and then said, well, Mm-hmm. guess I'll just do sales, right?

Yeah.

So here you have a large pool of population that might be undertrained, who might have also just inherited the ways that they thought would be the most effective. And there is some success that happens from using what you would call the pushy sales methodologies, but you alienate, or at least push away, everyone that doesn't buy. So the reason I bring this up is, yeah, there's some negative things you could see about sales, but the reason that we've gotten to hate it so much is we're actually double dosing it with negativity because we do not want to have any of that association with the negative sales experience. So we don't judge it as it is. We judge it twice as hard because we really want to reaffirm that it has nothing to do with our character, our identity. You don't want to be associated with a slimy, manipulative salespeople. So you will advocate 3 times louder and stronger and resist it more Because you really want to show the world that you are not like that. And the problem is you throw away all of the good that comes from actually embracing sales and doing it in a beautiful way, doing it in a way that it comes from a place of integrity and that actually works. All of that becomes inaccessible to you because any ounce of sales that you bring into your business, every time you do, it's like drinking poison because of the ideologies that you've associated with that term and what it represents. So a lot of the work that I do, as much as I love showing people the beautiful, amazing ways you can automate, systemize, connect faster, reach more, increase revenue, there's no point in teaching you how to shift gears and press on the gas if you're firmly on the handbrake. And that's really the first step that I often have people look through, which is how is it that we're actually just sabotaging ourselves even before we get started? And a lot of that baggage finds itself to be the source.

Well, so good. Um, I think this is going to hit every single person that's in the fitness industry because it's definitely something that, um, a lot of people are going through. And I think also when you're talking about that, you know, there's a lot of franchise owners and there's a lot of independent owners. Um, and the independent owners, from my experience, they're coming through, um, the hardship, you could say, where they're putting the business together, they're putting the marketing together, they're putting the sales together. Where franchise operators paid for a brand and they can go pretty much, yep, this is exactly how we're going to do it and this is what we're going to execute out. And they have that confidence at the start and they can just execute fast. And so I see a lot of these problems in not just, you know, just pick on the independents, but they're both sides. And especially when you've got the franchise owners who are very confident with How to take the sale, and I think that's where a lot of the the incompletes come from people looking at them going, "Oh, how did they grow so fast?" And they go, "I don't want to do that," and so they'll they'll they'll retract back quite a lot. So I like what you talk about that. Okay, so talk about like I've got the book here for those who are on watching this on YouTube. Check us out on there. The Sell with Love book. I've been going through that, and I'm. Fascinating with every page so far. You talk about this concept of love. All right. The title is Selling with Love. Can you take us through how do you actually apply love when you're asking for a sale, Jason? I mean, you're asking for a credit card, you're asking for a subscription, you're asking to sign up for them. How do you put love in that conversation? If there's any, you know, hacks on that, Jason, or you can take us through parts of the book.

Well, one thing I'll say is I won't have a hack for you, but I will give you a step-by-step process as well as ideologies across the book that you could find. And I'll just give the high level for everybody here. So if you're listening to this, there's an actual action that you can take and a different mindset that you can inherit. And I was actually flipping through my book and I wasn't able to find it so fast, but I actually have a fitness example in my book. I realized that I shared a story of me and my friend. I was signed up to this gym. I love the trainings there. It was really powerful. Yeah. And I brought my friend over, and of course the trainer, he was also responsible for making the sales. And so we did the training and he paid for the day pass, and at the end the person wanted to sign him up for a long term. And the way that he was selling it was like, listen, you got to take action, and if you don't buy now, that means you're not even investing in your health. You're going to be a lazy person if you delay this decision. Like all of those tricks that I'm sure he was told to do to push people over the edge, but had a very off-putting energy in the way that he was doing it. And my friend was like, I probably would have considered to sign up, but like, that just didn't feel right. And it was using shame and guilt as mechanisms to push people to make a decision that if the best interest of my friend was felt, right, I think the conversation, the tone, the language would have been shifted But instead, the energy that came from that individual was one of fear and lack. And you could see that they were a little desperate and more concerned about getting their commission. You could feel it. You could smell it. You could like sense it. And it's really easy to think when you look at your own negative sales experiences has always been coming from a place of like, why are they so pushy? There's something else at play. that isn't based on my best interest. And so when you ask, how do I step into a place of selling with love? That's really the key, is starting to think, okay, what is it that people want to know when they want to buy? They want to know, why are you selling me this? How do you really know this is going to work for me? How amazing is the product and the process that you're guiding me through this? Does it make me feel good? I'm using simple terms, which I'll translate into the specific loves in selling, and you'll see how they fit in. But I'll start with a powerful redefinition of sales so people can understand exactly what it looks like, feels like, and smells like if you're selling from love. Let's define sales this way: selling is nothing more than an energy exchange between conscious beings. And I say energy because energy can be the product and service that you offer. The exchange could be traditionally the money, which is simply stored energy. And the missing ingredient most people don't think about is emotion. Energy in motion, right? That's the fun play on words. But there's an emotion in every sales transaction. And when I tell and specify that when you know what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return, the emotion of love is felt both by the seller and the buyer. Like, think of— we don't remember these as much, but think of the things that are in your life that you absolutely love having. I bet you had a great purchase experience that was very non-eventful, but it was probably very easy, simple. You know, I speak about a time I went into an Apple Store in Miami and I just became so friends with the sales representative. We started talking about where to find vegan tacos and he was just there helping me out. I was about to get this upgrade. He's like, you don't need to pay more for your hard drive. You have an iCloud, get the cheaper one. And like, I could see he was just working with me based on what I had done, listening to what I'm planning to use it for and making me pick the best choice. You know that that person was ready to sell me because he's like, hey, with everything you're going to create, this is totally going to be worth it for you. And I know you're going to get so much more than what I'm asking you for in return, which is to give me your credit card and I'll process you a new iPhone, right? So coming from that energy, that's the mindset that you should have in the transaction, saying I'm here to give more than I'm asking in return. When you do that, the enthusiasm comes, the energy comes, everything is non-awkward. You know, it's non-manipulative. It's you trying to speak the right language that is necessary for people to understand what your true intentions are. You know, I love using fitness examples because oftentimes it's— I'll have like a friend, let's say we both make a commitment to go to the gym together, right?

Yeah.

Now here there's a sale that happens without money, but it's still a sale of an idea to make a choice of your higher self as opposed to your lazy, or what I like to call my B-I-T-C-H mind. wants to stay in bed and hit snooze. So if I have a friend that just calls, sends a text message, says, going to the gym, hope to see you there, that's all right. That would be where most of the people in this industry would probably lie, which is what I call the rational sabotage. It's not selling with love. It's basically just leaving it up to the others to make the decision, but I'll take no responsibility. That responsibility will lie on the buyer. Right. So if my friend just sends me a text, goes to the gym, and then he's like, I don't know why Jason didn't show up to the gym. He must be lazy. He's annoying. He doesn't care about himself. Well, guess what? I was just, I was exhausted and I read that and I was like, ah, another decision I need to make. I didn't wanna make it. Yep. But if my friend wanted to show up with love, they would call. Maybe they'd show up at my house. Who knows? It depends on the level of friendship, right?

Yeah.

Imagine they call and then I pick up the phone and they're like, Jason, guess what? I just built a whole training program. I got a schedule. I just need you to put on your shoes, get outta bed, show up, and we're gonna have a great training and we're gonna end up in the sauna, hit the ice baths and start the day in the most powerful way. And I'd love for you to be there. And if you can't bail, you can't bail. I need you to be there. We need to do this together because I won't train as hard as if you're not there. So if you don't want to disappoint me, you've got to show up. I'd be like, oh man, okay, fine. I'll be there. There were selfish reasons that the friend did that, but they also had my best interests at heart and I felt it. Yeah. He pushed me. Yeah. He made me feel emotions I didn't want to feel, but it got me out of bed. It got me to go to the gym. And then I'm like, you know what? The price I had to pay to get up It was not that much, but the benefits I got were massive from showing up in the gym.

That's pretty huge. I love how you say, I am, you know, give more than the return, give more than the return. I think that's very interesting because I think we forget, we forget that we need to give more than we're asking for in return at every transaction.

Yeah. So I tend to rant a bit when I get into this topic, but I hope you can feel how important it is for me to make this shift, because to me it's very clear why I sell my book, why I speak this message, why I show up on podcasts, why I bring energy everywhere that I go to speak about this. It's because I want to create a world where there's an army of enlightened sales individuals that run small businesses that are ethical, that are shaping the world by solving the true problems in a great way. So when I get to do that, like, for every person that I sell to I know that the world ripple effect is that there's more ethical businesses that get to grow, succeed, and make the impact at a fair price, really providing value, which lifts the tide for everyone else. And in there lies the clue of the first love that I tell people to focus on when they go and sell with love, which is love the impact.

Ooh, love the impact. Yeah.

Love the impact answers the big question that people have in the back of their heads, which is, why are you selling me so hard?

Right? Mm-hmm.

They're wondering, what's your intention? What's your goal? Where's your motivation? And this is where you can show up. And if you take the moment to say like, well, what happens to a client? Like, what's the impact to the client when you actually sell them? And you start listing all the direct benefits, but also supercharging that with what I just did, which is I could talk about, you know, when I work with an individual client, I could say they increase their revenue, they increase their profit, they increase their efficiency in selling, they get to be more excited about selling. Like, those are great and you need to list those, but if you wanna take it a step further, is imagine your business does this over and over again for the entirety of your life. What is that going to be the ripple effect in those people's families and ultimately in the world? Like, your spark, your energy that you're going to be shifting, what is it going to create as a ripple to the world? And then you start realizing that, wow, if I take a moment to focus on that, that is all the marketing material that I need to put forward. So people, when they walk in and say, why are you trying to be a health professional? Well, maybe you have beliefs that when you take care of your body, you take care of your life, and more people that take care of their life make the world better for everyone because we're all self-reliant. Maybe that's one.

And so basically, marketing and sales, it sounds like they're more integrated than most people may think. Um, you know, there's a big thing with any kind of company— marketing teams doing this, sales teams doing that— they're off, they're off the different They're all kind of off 2 different pages. And to me, it's this— it's the same how you market, how you sell. Can you take us through the marketing concept and marketing strategies? I mean, fitness professionals are always, you know, we're told to put stuff on social media, and we believe a lot in video concepts and putting a lot of content online, especially from their clients. We have a thing called the hero video, making your clients the hero in the content. How does marketing and sales connect? Is it 2 different things or is it the same?

I think the funnest way I've seen this actually be demonstrated was actually with HubSpot actually started labeling a term that they would call smarketing, which is

marketing

cheeky. But I come from a B2C industry that was direct to consumer, right? And, you know, being a personal growth education online business, what happens is the whole marketing and sales in my mind is so blended together. I've never been in an industry that it was actually quite separated. It was always quite integrated. And I think that the more businesses you see have this integration between marketing and sales, you can put everybody on the same team for the clear understanding of what are we ultimately trying to achieve? We want to generate clients. Well, where does that start? We need to have appointments. Well, where does that start? Well, people need to be aware that they can book an appointment. Now, where does that start? Well, there's channels that I can make people be more aware. of where I exist and where they can walk in and learn more and how they can take action to book an appointment. And so a lot of times, you know, people talk about doing all the online marketing, but oftentimes I actually see this more as online direct sales. Because when you talk about landing pages, funnels, booking appointments, you're moving people towards a sales pipeline.

Yeah.

And so it's easier. And it's, you know, I think a lot of us actually expand what the role of marketing is because it's so much nicer to say, Oh, I'm in marketing. It has a lot less baggage than saying I'm a salesperson, and I'm trying to bring back the sexy in sales. And so I would say a lot of us are more in sales than we'd like to admit to. And if you can understand how it's a beautiful thing that you're really just, you know, all— what are the qualities of a great salesperson, right? Every professional, B2B, B2C— I do this podcast, I've interviewed over 200 people, and I don't get tired of this because it constantly needs to be reminded. A great salesperson, what do they do? They listen, they ask powerful questions, they go and see if they can challenge their way of thinking and seeing if there's other opportunities of solving that problem. They present actions, homeworks, or mostly action about what they could do to remove the problem from their lives, which often leads to a sale.

Sale. Yeah.

Now what's interesting, and particularly I have a group of clients that come to me and they're like, I hate sales. Yet everything I described right there would be the exact same process as a coaching session.

Totally.

Only difference is you're asking for money. So do we have an issue with sales? Or do we have an issue with money? Or do we have an issue that the moment the person will say yes, and give you the money, that you won't be able to deliver what they expect based on what you said?

Wow, that's pretty powerful. I love that. Listen, ask, challenge, present the action. And I want to explore that a little bit more then. Let's talk about the, the last part of the sales funnel as, as you're talking about. So we're doing an amazing presentation, conversation, challenge them, presenting actions. Um, I just actually got off a webinar which was all talking about, um, the last part of the sales funnel, which was how to ask for a credit card. However, this last part of the funnel, I do think there's a massive roadblock here. I would definitely say that. And I think what you said is spot on. It could be definitely those 2 things. The product is inferior that they say, or they have a big issue with money. What is it mainly? Is it the whole old saying that money doesn't grow on trees and what we've been brought up and things like that, Jason?

There's obviously a lot of that. Um, it does exist. Uh, and unfortunately I'm not gonna go in and do a deep dive on traumas, histories, and beliefs that we need to transform. Um, there's, if, if you look into products that helps you rearrange your relationship with money, I would highly recommend to explore that if you feel that that's where the block lies. But maybe it's just a question of tactic. Maybe it's just, there's a discomfort because you're doing, uh, you know, you're explaining, you're talking, everything's about like, yeah, let's do this. And There's like an energy shift, right? When you switch to money, especially. And by the way, that energy shift does not come from the buyer. It comes from ourselves, right? Our energy shifts based on our fears of rejection, our fears of not enoughness, all of which, by the way, is the last love in the Selling with Love series. It's understanding that self-love is the ultimate thing at the pinnacle of every problem we have with sales. We just use sales as a scapegoat. to prevent us from facing the fears that are truly within us and that fear of rejection, all that. But let's be pragmatic here. Let's say that the only reason you're not successful is because the moment you've done your presentation, it just feels too awkward for you to be able to switch to asking for the credit card. It's too much of a frame shift, right?

Especially if they're a coach and they're doing the work themselves and they're a trainer and then you're asking. It's a— it is a different concept, right?

Okay. I'm going to borrow and share something that I've learned from someone I interviewed. His name is Jason Fladlien. He's the king of webinars. And it's interesting because his thing that he teaches is actually to be used on webinars with a group of people, but you'll notice how exactly it can apply on a one-on-one conversation. And I think particularly for this industry, it's going to be huge. So he says the problem is that you do teaching, teaching— like most of the sessions, like if you're doing a client discovery call, an initial assessment, you're mostly doing discovery and teaching. You're going to be learning more about them, you're going to set some goals, you're You're also going to educate them on what are the things that will need to be done so then they can get to that point. And then it's almost at the end, you're going to talk about the price to make that a reality. Would that be, Richard, a fair assessment of how the process goes?

Yep. Sounds about right.

Okay. So he talks about the 3 phases of closing, and I'm referring to Jason Fladlien here, which is the first thing you'd want to do, right? When you know you've come to the end of the conversation, you talked about a lot of things before you close. You'd want to do a recap of everything you did, right? Because there's 2 things that need to happen here. Number one is you want the client to remember everything you've done so far already for free. So an example like this would be, Richard, listen, we're just coming up to the hour of spending time together, but as a recap, we looked at, you know, what were the fitness goals that you had, what are the things you've tried before. We talked about what limitations you had in those instances. the programs that we put together and what we think are the keys to success. We've looked at making sure that your pillar of nutrition is in place. We talked about how your pillar of fitness and regimes and routines are in place. And at this point, I'd love to introduce you into an offer, but would you say that you've covered— this is about what we've covered? Yeah. So you do a recap of everything you've already talked about. And again, I say one of the things is to make the client realize that, oh my God, we did cover a lot of stuff and this is great. But the real reason you do it is to remind you what you've been doing and how much value you've been giving for the last hour. Because oftentimes you're like, oh my God, do I have the right to sell? And when you do this recap and you're like, wow, okay, no, we covered a lot of stuff actually. This is great. Which gives you your permission to go to phase 2. And phase 2, this is one of the closing techniques that I really love. And I think actually comes from a lot of abundance, which is the fork in the road. Right. Which is actually saying at this point, okay, this might be the final time we have this conversation and you're going to have a choice to make, Richard. At this point, with the information that I shared, I'd encourage you find the right habits, get support if you need it, but start doing the work. This is the path that gets you to the results and you can do this on your own. You're fully equipped to do this. There's nothing that I'm teaching you that you didn't know already. I just want to make sure that you have that commitment for yourself because you talked about how important these goals were for you. And there's definitely a way you can do this on your own. And I fully support anybody who makes a powerful decision to transform, whether you decide to work with me or not. But what I'd love to present as well is another alternative, which is the possibility that we could work together and I can actually support you in reaching these goals, which is why I'd love to present to you the program that we've put together to ensure that happens.

I like the fork in the road. Yeah,

the fork in the road is you don't tell— because this is what I hated from my friend. that got pitched by— he told him, if you don't take action, you're going to fail, you're going to suck, and you're a loser, and you don't commit to things. Like, was just shaming him. And to me, I find that's the most poisonous thing around sales. I love telling people, you are powerful whether you work with me or not, but when you do work with me, it's going to be less expensive, less risky, better results, all the great things that your product definitely does deliver for these people. And now you just want to have— ask them permission, saying, listen, I have a way that could do this with a lot less risk, a lot more insurance, a lot more support, so that at least you know you can reach your goals in a more efficient way. And everybody's trying to be more efficient. Everybody wants to get a good deal. Going on their own is going to be an option, but is it the best deal? Well, that's when you actually get an opportunity to pitch. And if you structure your offer the right way, guess what? They're going to realize, you know what, it's actually a better deal and less risky to actually continue working with you. You have permission now to go into phase 3, which is— let me explain to you exactly what it is. And then pitch your offer.

Yeah. Wow. Love that. And I love the words that you're using— support you, um, you know, more insurance. It's because you're selling with love. That makes sense.

It is what it is. You're trying— like, you're not trying to cause pain to anyone. Nobody's in this business because you're trying to cut a slice of a limited pie and hopefully people do it with you than anybody else. And that, you know, once you've got them then you, you've tricked them into working with you. No, you're, you're all here and you're believing that when they decide to make an investment in themselves and to work with you, you want to get them from that point A to point B, which is what we started with, which is like you have a track record, you've seen the physical changes, you've seen the emotional changes. And this individual here is a, is a powerful, a smart individual who's in a point of making a decision. You want to show them that they're going to be fine if they go on their own, but it's going to be more expensive. And when you make them a decision or give them the option that they can work with you, then you're going to pull out all the guns. You're going to speak the right language. You're going to use everything in your arsenal not to manipulate. See, the love of the process of selling is not a tool for manipulation. It's a tool for empathy. It's learning the language that is necessary for people to understand the value you want to provide to them. Empathy.

That's a really nice word, isn't it? It's a soft word and it's a caring word. And you don't hear that a lot in a sales podcast or a lot in sales. It's all around, this is the process, go and do that. But I love this because you can still do your— like, you know, we talked about part 3, you can still do your pitch and you can still do that framework, but that's the tactical part. We're talking about to get them to the tactical part. with the utmost care. And this is a massive, massive loophole for a lot of people, I believe, like a massive gap that people are not seeing when they present this option. And that's what I love about the fitness industry. It's like, you know, one of the industries that literally can save people's lives being, you know, working with somebody. And I'm a big believer, Jason, and we're on a mission here at COMM to ensure that everybody is paid what they're worth. A lot of fitness professionals will not pay what they're worth. They won't get a salary. They're not charging enough. They're not taking their rates up because they want to give to more people. Actually, can we talk about that for a second? Just dissect for a sec. Is that when, when somebody wants to take their rates up, you know, in the fitness industry, they might be charging $30 a week. And, you know, we want to take them to $40 or $50 a week. And there's so much fear around, I'm going to lose all these clients. And there's so much fear around, you know, I don't think I can charge that. These guys have been— the typical one is these guys have been on this rate for the last 10 years. They're founder members. I can't take that up, or 2 years or 3 years. And what would, you know, what parts of the Sell With Love concept would you use to transition them to talk about how they can take the rates up, especially so they can actually earn more in their back pocket and stay in the industry long-term?

Yeah, well, I'll say a surprising one. If you're not comfortable raising your, raising your rates in the time that you know it should be risen, you're being selfish.

Oh.

You're being selfish. And you're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, guess what? You have these clients who've been serving for all these years. If you don't raise your rates in a way that you're gonna have more budgets more profit, more revenue to reinvest into improving your program, reaching more people, continue to serve them in the best way that you've been serving all this time, then you're holding yourself back and you're holding them back because now you're not going to give so lovingly. You're going to give with resentment because you're not charging what is the real value.

Resentment. Yes.

Like, have you had— do you have a client that you're just like, oh, this is my $10 client or my $30 client, and it's like you don't show up fully? And guess what? Comfort lacks courage. Conversion is not comfortable.

Hmm.

And so I know this is a big ask and this is not to be taken lightly, and I understand the resistance. It's just presenting you a different way of looking at it to understand that If you are in a position where you have a lot of clients knocking at your door and you still have clients that you want to serve, but they're at a lower rate, you need to sit down and have that conversation. It's not comfortable. It's like being in a relationship, right? Let's say you have a monthly budget with your spouse, and then you're realizing that there's some spending that's too much based on the revenue that you're making, and you need to have a conversation on where you can make some cutbacks. Is that a comfortable conversation? No, but if you have that conversation, you ensure that you have better communication and you're not just like resenting when your partner comes home saying, look at what I bought. And they're like, why did they go and buy this PlayStation? Or why did they go and buy this, you know, this fancy other thing? Like depending, you start actually being able to have those courageous conversations from the beginning. So it's the same as that, except you're dealing with your buyer. Your buyer is there. Your client is there as someone that is in your care. And if you sit with them and you're like, Richard, listen, we've been working together for so many years. I'm serving a lot of clients and I actually need to uphold my rates. You know, I want to be able to serve you fully. There's things that I've improved. I know we've had some results and I'd like to have that conversation to see what that would look like. Now, if you want to come from a place of love, if let's say your new rate is $50, you could just say like, Richard, listen, my new base rate is $50. I know you've been at $30 this whole time, so I'd be willing to at least put you up at $40 or $45 just as a thank you for the next couple months, but eventually we'll fall at 50. But I promise I'll be able to show up with more energy, more attention, more care, and I really want to continue this relationship.

So with love. Love it. Uh, this is really insightful for those who are struggling with that in their mind. I think that really helps, just having that conversation and just telling them, um, you know, what's been— just communicating, right? Um, communicating is a massive part of this conversation. And that selfishness, I think, is, is a very big part why people don't— you know, I think selfishness would change a lot of people's mind when you look at it that way. Yeah, it is selfish when you can't improve things or get new equipment or whatever you want to do, um, get another trainers. That's super selfish, right? If you're not growing, you're dying. Jason, before we finish up, you talked about one, and you talked about the first and the fourth, um, emotion, so with love. Can you just maybe fill us in on the, on the The second and third one, or maybe just recap the 4 for us before we leave.

Let me do a— I'll do a rapid fire for the big things people should keep in their mind.

Love it.

There's 4 different emotions you can sell from. Selling with love is what we're trying to achieve. But if you're not selling from love, shame and guilt blockages exist, and those make you actually hold back from selling completely. You don't even want to take responsibility of selling. Some people actually sell from a place of fear and pride. And that's actually when you see people that don't care about the pro— the product. They don't care about the client. They don't care about the impact. They learn the sales process, but they numb themselves to the reality of what's going on. So you often see that you're feeling depressed. You're feeling that there's addiction issues, mental health issues, because you don't wanna face the reality of how you're selling. And so you often graduate from that to what I call the rational sabotage, which is where you don't wanna take the responsibility. You try to leave it on the buyer's side and then blame, resent the buyer when they don't take the decision you wanted them. Mm-hmm. to take. And ultimately, when I say sell with love, it means lead people, lead people to a decision of their higher self where you want to bring them more value than what you're asking in return. And then within the book, as you go through, you'll realize there's 5 loves in selling, which is love the impact, love the client, and the way to love them is to understand them, love the product in a way that you're proud of selling it, love the process because you know you have an impactful product that really helps the people and brings value to the people that you've taken the time to understand, then start using everything in your arsenal to be able to be enthusiastic and excited about selling it to them, because you know that what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return. And this whole journey, this whole experience, is all about helping you grow as an individual and build upon the self-love, which is the 5th— the 5th love in selling. Yes, you're joining an industry where As a salesperson, you get more failures than successes. You are in a losing game. But you know what they say, if you want to grow, learn to fail fast. And I know no industry faster fails than sales, which means you are on the path of an accelerated growth journey. There's going to be insecurities, doubts, hesitation, all that beautiful stuff that comes with failure. But I promise you, on the other side, you're going to grow your impact. You're going to be able to do it with integrity. And if you follow this methodology, you'll feel good and have fun doing it. And this is really what I want to inspire people to do.

Jason, uh, that was outstanding. Love it. I'm really motivated to get through this book fast. Um, I love the information that's shared, especially for this industry, the fitness industry, where we know this is a huge gap for a lot of us. So guys, do yourself a favor, pick the book up, Selling with Love. Jason, where's the best place to get that? Is that Amazon?

Yeah. Amazon's the best place, especially if your audience is in Australia. I know you can directly buy it in Australia. It ships super fast as well. So that would be the primary place to go pick it up.

Yeah. We got a whole box for our clients and Joey purchased the box. I think it was like on a Thursday. Monday, they're at our door. So if you are in Australia, it's super easy. Selling with Love on Amazon: Earn with Integrity and Expand Your Impact from Jason Mark Campbell and Mark's with a C. I'll put a link in the chat there for you. And you've got an amazing podcast as well. Can you quickly give us an insight into your podcast for those who want to follow you there?

Yeah, absolutely. Same name, Selling with Love Podcast. So I interview people in the field of sales, in the field of mindset that really gets you to step into your best self in every way that you sell. Simply go to sellingwithlove.com. You can sign up there on your favorite platform. And one thing I'd love to add as well, Richard, I know we wanted to give more to your listeners. So what I've done actually is I did sellingwithlove.com/free forward slash com, uh, which is your company. There's a link there where people can get the first chapter of the book for free, which really talks about why we hate sales. And I think that's a big block we want to remove. And I have a powerful meditation that people can do so they can connect with their clients before meeting them, whether it's a call, in person, or just getting ready to reach out to new people. It's a meditation that puts you in the right mindset to go out there and sell with love. So everybody can access that for free, sellingwithlove.com/com.

Awesome. I love that. sellingwithlove.com/com. Check that out, download it. Really excited for this and really excited to see more people selling with love in this industry. Thanks, Jason. It's been a pleasure. Hopefully it's not another 5 years until next time. Look forward to catching up soon.

Absolutely. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks everybody for listening.

Guys, if you enjoyed this episode of the Marketing Muscle Up Podcast Show, be sure to share it with your friend, share it with your bestie, and take action on this today. There's an amazing gift that Jason has gifted us. Go check that out and down— start this action. I always love leaving podcasts and starting with an action. So if you haven't yet gone to the website, Zone of Love, or haven't gone yet, order on Amazon, go and do that now. It's super simple. Hit the buy now button and get it sorted. Thanks, team. I'll catch you next time in the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show. And thanks again, Jason.