The EMS Revolution: Reimagining The Future Of Fitness with Matt George | EP 198

How many EMS vests around the world? I mean, how many people are using this sort of technology?

I can't speak for other brands per se, but XBody's got over 5,000 studios across 86 countries. We're currently delivering about 35,000 to 40,000 sessions a day.

Welcome back to Marketing Muscle Up Podcast Show. I'm your host, Richard Turturji, and today I've got a very special guest. His name is Matt George. He's the director of X Body Australia. Now I'm going to get Matt to talk about what X Body is, but I want to sort of give you some clues here. If you heard of EMS technology, it stands for electrical muscle stimulation. It's one of the largest, fastest growing devices in the world. In 20 minutes, 2 times a week, you can change your body shape. Now I know you've heard it all before. We're talking about marketing and all that kind of stuff, but this is a little bit different. And I want to bring on Matt, and he's going to kind of share with you what it is. But I want to— I'm going to ask him specifically about the size of this brand and the size of what we're talking about here, because sometimes in Australia we are not seeing what's happening elsewhere. Um, I've known Matt for a few years now, but quite closely the last year. We're in a roundtable suppliers group run by Justin Tamset. Big shout out to JT there. And learned way more about how big this technology is. So welcome to the show, Matt.

Thanks, Richard. Absolute pleasure to be here.

So good to have you here, Matt. I've been meaning to get you on, but Just didn't get around to it. And I think we've both been busy. You've been traveling, you've been going to event after event, I've seen. And you also have an entire other business as well. Typical fitness entrepreneur over there. And your background is in the swimming. You own a swim school. Is that correct, Matt?

Yep, absolutely. That's my project that I've had for over 20 years now in the fitness and aquatic industries. But it's the EMS that's what I'm truly focused on these days to help investors and trainers build their businesses, look at what's happening overseas and seeing how we can replicate this business model and support them as much as we can in Australia.

Oh, outstanding. Now, Matt, I've had a go at this EMS a couple of years ago. And I was absolutely blown away, blown away with, with what it did to me in— I didn't even think I lasted 20 minutes, Matt. Um, it was, it was really intense. Now, before we get into the, to the nuts of what EMS and X-Body is specifically, for those who don't know, um, I want you to paint a picture, Matt. Um, you, you travel quite a lot extensively in Europe, just came back from a trip. And you saw the fast growth over there. Take us through what, you know, what volume of people are using EMS or XBody. You may not have the stats for that because it's quite substantial compared to what we see in Australia. So I think let's paint the picture of what this looks like globally.

Yeah, absolutely. Look, EMS is really well known overseas, and XBody is the world leaders in wireless EMS technology. And in places like Europe and the Middle East and Brazil, it is absolutely enormous. And you will see, you'll see a studio in places like Munich Airport and on just about every street corner. It is so common and everyone knows what EMS is. XBody alone has over 5,000 studios across 86 countries and we're delivering 35,000 to 40,000 sessions a day. Wow. You know, this is not a gimmick and this is not something that's, you know, new to the markets over there. Our different business models have been market tested and proven. And now we're bringing those different business models to Australia to helping investors and trainers capture new areas of the population and create their own new markets.

Well, I saw you down at the last fitness show. You had one of the biggest booths down there. And you had a lot of interest from people wanting to get involved because obviously we're probably in a stage where, you know, probably maybe there's less travel, people going overseas. But if you've ever been in Europe and you've traveled, you've obviously seen this and you had a lot of people really excited that now they can take the XBody, you know, brand and actually use that. Matt, just take me through Specifically XBody. I'd love to know a little bit more about it. You know, how, you know, we know that EMS is the electrical muscle stimulation, but XBody is one of the leading brands, if not leading brand around this technology. Can you just take me through specifically XBody and—

Yeah, sure. Look, just on, on EMS in general has been around for decades, mostly as localized EMS and in about 2006, 2007, it was adapted into what we now know as whole body EMS, where we put the suit on and we deliver the electrical stimulation through different channels of the body.

Yep.

Now, XBody was founded in 2010, and there's, there's 2 major suppliers to most studios around the world. And the reason XBody branched off is because we saw right back in 2010, the future of EMS as wireless and not cabled to a machine. So since 2010, we have been delivering wireless EMS technology where you can move around a studio or a gym freely without being cabled to a machine. We can work through multidimensional planes of movement. I can work on your golf swing, Richard. I can work on my swimming stroke. And, you know, we can get that massive muscle growth. And, and, and without putting any stress on any of the joints. So it really is a highly effective way to train safely and get results fast.

So basically, I'm on the website and, um, you're, you're, you— it's sort of like, does it mean that like the trainer can really, um, get into the client instead of saying do 10 push-ups? They just dial the dot, they dial the knob, and they— and there's more stimulation that's coming through those. Well, how does it work, Matt?

Yeah, look, totally. Look, and if you compare that to conventional training, so in conventional training, you might do what you said, a push-up, for example, and you might fire up, you know, 35 to 40% of your muscle fibers specific to that movement, right? But in EMS, we've got this suit on, we've got up to 12 channels of electrodes covering the body, and we're firing 90 to 95% of the muscle fibers up Not just specific to that movement, but the entire body. And that is why, like, 20 minutes is more than enough. It is equivalent to doing at least 90 minutes of conventional strength training in the gym.

Amazing. So, so tell me about, and then I want to know a bit more about your background, Matt, but, but I'm really interested about EMS. Tell me about, you know, who's, who's, who, who is going to be using The EMS technology. I mean, if you're talking to fitness professionals who are probably listening to this, they're going, well, I just need a run mat. I need to build strength. I can't have a, you know, some things on me to— I don't know what, I'm not even using the right wordology there. Some innovation design on me. I mean, who? But at the same time too, there is a huge, huge client base for this? What sort of clients are perfect for this technology?

Look, I think you touched on, you know, there's 80% of the population we're not serving at the moment. We, you know, there's less than 20% of the population are members of a gym or a yoga studio. There's 80% of the people out there that are not coming to the gym for whatever reason. Now, you know, you and I have been in the industry a long time and, you know, those objections you would get basically boil down to either lack of time, Or lack of motivation. Now, 20 minutes once or maximum twice per week can achieve incredible results really quickly for the clients. So I guess that really gets rid of that objection. So time is no longer an issue for the clients. And the second thing is motivation. Like, I know, I know, I've been a club manager before in the gyms and people come and join and sometimes come 2 or 3 times and expect instant results. Now, they can't get those because they can't be lifting the heavy weights straight away. And it takes months to be building up to that to get the, you know, hormonal response and that muscle growth. Whereas in EMS, it is, it's certainly not the easier way to do things, but we, what we're doing is we're getting straight to the fast twitch fibers, which are the bigger fibers in the muscles. And we're getting a massive hormonal response. For up to 72 hours after a workout, and there's big DOMS and big gains straight away.

Outstanding. So how did you discover this technology? Maybe I'd love to know a bit about your story because, um, I know that, um, your background is in the swimming game, uh, swimming coach, um, believe you own a swim school. So take me through, you know, how does somebody who, who teachers swimming move into this, or is that something that the market needed?

Oh, look, you know, I was working at a gym and aquatic center business, and I actually moved over to Germany for family reasons. So we wanted to be over with my family over there and my wife's family over there, and I needed to get a job. So I went straight into the German fitness industry. And a little bit like you, I was skeptical of this technology that I was seeing everywhere. And I was working as an assistant manager and group fitness trainer in the club. And the managers go, look, you've got to try this EMS. And I kept walking past the technology going, look, that's not for me. I don't want to be attached to a machine or doing this kind of thing. It's— that's not what I do. But As soon as I gave it a go, it took me about 3 months to give it my first shot at it. As soon as I gave it a go, I was like, wow, like this can help so many people. I was within 5 minutes, I was like, right, I've gotta get this back to Australia. This is going to be huge because what this does is unique and it does something that the rest of the market doesn't do. And we can help people that we currently can't help. You know, so, you know, what we've got is unique in the sense that it is the only— yes, we're getting massive muscle gain and growth, but essentially what we've got is the only thing on the market that trains the nervous system. So the health applications for that are huge.

Yeah, outstanding. So take me through how the whole process works. I mean, I think, you know, in the fitness industry, I think we've all possibly come across the EMS technology. What, I mean, what is XBody and how do we get involved? Who wants to, can they get involved with it? If you're a trainer or a studio owner or a gym, how do we make it part of what we do if it's going to serve a massive part of the population that's not being served at the moment?

Look, I guess it comes back to our different business models that we do have, whether you're a club owner and you're looking for a shop-in-shop style boutique offering, or whether you're a serious investor or trainer that's looking to start your own standalone EMS studio, or whether you might be a trainer that's on a gym floor or looking for a more unique offering to stand out from the other trainers, XBody has different packages that can serve, you know, different style business models and help you start small and grow your business with EMS.

Yeah, awesome. So you basically can have a, you can have a business, a studio owner could have a studio or a gym and you can put this inside the current offering already.

Yeah, absolutely. Look, so just if we start there with that kind of shop-in-shop style, we can, you can either be delivering it on your gym floor or whether you've got a corner of the gym that's underutilized, this can generate serious secondary income for the gym and either the If the gym's going to be looking at offering it themselves to stand out from their competitors, or a trainer might be the driving force behind it and come to the studio and go, listen, I've got this EMS thing, you know, I'm a personal trainer. I want to be delivering this on your gym floor. So you can, you can have a handful of suits essentially to suit different body sizes and a little tablet and you can be delivering on our little Go device, our little more portable option, you can be delivering up to training up to 2 people simultaneously in the gym and offering that sort of style of personal training or 2-on-1 training. We also do have our Pro device where you can be training up to 6 people simultaneously, but there you would be either looking, you would really be looking at more of that standalone EMS business model.

Yeah, no, awesome. Tell me about your passion, Matt, because you help a lot of people in what you do over the years. I mean, where do you see, you know, I always like to understand from the owner's perspective, you know, what drives you in this technology? Like we're at a stage at the moment that, I mean, talking about timing, we've got, I mean, we've got the robots that will be after us soon, right? The AI robots.

Sure.

And you are bringing this amazing technology into the place too. So I mean, A lot of this has got to do with timing, do you think, Matt? Is it understanding that this is a good, a great solution, even especially after COVID and people working at home? I mean, there's so many different things that are coming together. Yeah. What's the drive for you?

The drive for me is the people that we can help and Being able to, you know, whether they've got lower back pain or they're recovering from an injury or they've got, you know, poor movement capabilities, they've got restricted movement, they're coming back from a joint replacement, pelvic floor issues. There's so many people that we can help with this technology that is sometimes would be much more difficult to help in conventional style training. So I guess that's where I'm coming from. Like, we can— I'm looking at the population at the moment and we've had this obesity issue in Australia for a long time. But I'm looking at the current population hunched over laptops and working home office and, you know, kids hunched over their devices, not moving and getting their nervous system to be, you know, working in the way that it should be developed. So, you know, to have something that can build those weak motoric neural connections to the muscles again. You know, people think about building muscle with EMS, but it's improving posture and balance and coordination through strengthening those neural connections to the muscles that truly excites me.

Yeah, so good. So where do you see— we are— hang on, before we get to the next question, I want to talk about marketing. Right. What's the best form of marketing that you've seen? I mean, my head goes all these different things, you know, 20-minute workouts and don't have to go into a gym again. Like there's so many different ways, but I mean, what are some great marketing successes that you have had with the EMS products?

Yeah, look, it is a slow burn, but it is the word of mouth of people that's getting fantastic results. From this EMS through the studio networks around Australia and New Zealand. And, you know, once when word gets out there that, you know, do you mean that I don't have to be going to CrossFit and or busting my ass in a spin class? Like, I personally enjoy a great spin class. A lot of people don't. They don't want that level of intensity with their training and or they they can no longer handle that high-intensity training. EMS is perfect for that target market. And I guess that's why we appeal, like the over-50s market is our main target market. And, you know, I think they're not being very well served by the fitness industry in general as well. There's a huge focus on High-intensity training centers, functional fitness, and stuff which I love and I think is fantastic. But, you know, a lot of people can't do that physically anymore, or they need something more low impact. And what I love about EMS is that, you know, we can get that massive muscle activation without putting any pressure on any of the joints, you know, and, you know, I've got a few niggles and stuff myself. That's why I love it for what it can do for me and what it can do for others.

Yeah, so good. I mean, there's so many marketing angles that traditional fitness couldn't even touch.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's so many different ways we can go about that. And it's interesting to say, you know, most of the population are not in gyms. Um, they're not doing what we think they should do, and there's probably reasons for that. And, uh, it's interesting that this is taking off in Dubai and Europe, um, because They've probably seen the light, hey? And they go, hey, there are some better ways to do things.

Sure. You know, and it's lovely whether it's in that mobile EMS trainer model or whether it's in the EMS studio. People are enjoying that boutique offering from the trainer and getting that personalized service. And with our technology, what we're able to do is, you know, we can not only control how much stimulation is going Through each channel of the suit, we can choose what type of muscle fiber we're targeting. We can choose how deep we're going into the muscles and really tune in our sessions to hit the goals and targets of our, of our members.

Love it. Matt, I've got a random question for you. We're a marketing show.

Yeah.

Now, if you were down to your last $100 in your business, What do you think you'd spend it on?

Well, look, I'm a big believer in surrounding yourself by good, with good people and taking lead and knowledge from others. So I would say I would probably ring my business coach and ask her out for lunch and pick her brains on how we might need to realign our our strategies, particularly on product. I think reaching out to someone else who's got more knowledge than me in the industry.

Wow, that's a great piece of advice. I really love that. Best advice you've ever received, Matt? It's a big question, I know.

It is a big question and I've had good advice from some great people over the years. I think the one that's true for me is just stick to your lane and be your authentic self and do things your way. So, you know, find your niche, find your groove and stick to it. Don't be influenced just because the latest craze is, you know, boxing Pilates or hybrid, whatever, you know, stick to what you are doing and believe in it and you will get there.

What a great piece of advice. I think that really, you know, today I think that really is a huge piece of advice. I think there's so many different things that we can get caught up on, isn't there? There's social media, there's different apps, there's different businesses. People can move here, there, and everywhere really fast. It is becoming a huge problem, I think.

Yeah.

Not sticking to your lane.

Absolutely. And I think a lot of people are trying to be everything to everyone and end up being nothing, you know, they're just such a mix of nothingness and they just really need to focus in and specialize on their area.

Yeah, I love that. Such a great piece of advice. Maybe it's timing. It's so good. My last question, my last quick question is, you know, what's the best career highlight that you've loved and you've been in this industry for a long time, you know, what's the thing that you've loved Through your industry, through your career?

Look, I, yeah, I've really enjoyed lots of it. Look, probably my greatest highlight is, look, I'm still a spinning instructor. Occasionally I come out of retirement for that and I've got a big event that I go over to Germany for coaching spinning and that for me is something special that, you know, you feel like a bit of a rock star and enjoy the vibe of people that are, you know, enjoying their fitness. So that is one of my favorite things on my calendar.

Yeah, love it. Good to know. I'm really just really interested in EMS. That's why I got the show for. I wanted to know more about it and how it works because I just actually think this is a a huge piece of the, of the missing puzzle of people not able to, I mean, exercise, injury rehab, injuries. You see a lot now in the wellness and the recovery and the boots and the ice baths and the saunas and the steams. What are your thoughts on, you know, is this all a craze, Matt? I mean, when we're going down the line of we've got to recover because, you know, we've had a a tough week at, I don't know what, at work, um, or we've got to recover because we've been told to ice bath and that. I mean, you're, you're in— to me, it's like your product can actually hit anybody who can't, um, go out there and, and, um, do what maybe they could used to do. What's your— what's your— I mean, my question is, you know, what are your thoughts on, on the way that the trend is going, the recovery and ice and all that kind of stuff, compared to Or is, or is it the right thing to do?

Look, I think there has been a massive shift from looking good to feeling good. And I'm personally a fan of wellness and recovery in general. Love a good sauna, not a fan of the ice bath personally. Maybe I'm a bit of a wuss, but I think I think it's got its place. I think there's too much focus on what I call the 1 percenters a little bit. You know, a lot of these, whether it be, well, you know, an ice bath or a cryo or a, or whatever they're looking at.

Yeah.

They're great, but they might be the little 1 percenters. Um, I, I think EMS is unique in the sense it's, it's more than a 1 percenter. We've, we've got something that's significantly going to affect your results, whether it be recovery or performance. And perhaps clubs and investors should look at more than just the 1 percenters and look for something that can really shift the dial on the results.

Yeah, amazing. Now, love to talk about some stats, Matt. How many EMS— like, I don't know if you know these answers— how many EMS vests around the world? I mean, how many people are using this sort of technology? XBody, I should say.

Yeah, look, I can't speak for other brands per se, but XBody's got over 5,000 studios across 86 countries. We're currently delivering about 35,000 to 40,000 sessions a day.

Wow.

So look, it's not a gimmick. It's not something that's, although it's brand, it's new-ish to the Australian market. It's something that's been delivering results overseas for 10+ years in Europe. And it's something that's just taking off massively now in America. And we've also seen some success stories in Australia. So I think in Australia, look, there's one operator that's up to over 30 studios himself on his franchise. And there's other new investors and trainers coming in that are looking at this as a business model that's easily achievable and, you know, easily, easy to replicate. So look, I see massive growth coming up in the Australian industry. Globally, it's already massive in certain countries. America and Australia often looks to America for trends and whatnot. And currently a company called Body 20 supplied by XBody is the fastest fitness franchise Growth in the American market right now.

Wow.

Now that's exciting. And from an investor's point of view, why is it— comes down to one thing, like return on investment. So why is it growing so quickly? Well, it's growing so quickly because it's offering a massive ROI to its investors. So if you check out their website, you'll see them popping up like wildfire. in Australia, in America, and you'll see that kind of growth eventually moving to these shores as well.

Matt, last question. What do you think the future of Exbody or EMS in Australia in the next 5 years? What are we looking at? What's your predictions?

Look, yeah, well, and a little bit off the back of the last question as well. If you look at German, if you look overseas for trends and you see In Germany, there's an EMS studio every, you know, 10,000 to 15,000 people. Now, there's no reason why that won't happen as well in Australia. And I believe we will get to the stage where we have it in every regional town and every suburb in every metropolitan area in Australia. So we will get there with that kind of growth. I'm predicting XBody will be up to over a couple of hundred studio or shop-in-shop offerings within the next 5 years. I hope we get there quickly, but we're here for the long term anyway to provide that support to our investors and trainers to help them grow and support them as much as we can. So it's exciting times in the EMS industry in Australia.

Amazing, mate. Thanks, Matt. And I'm looking at this really interesting because I just think it's such a great piece of technology, especially in the landscape we have at the moment in the fitness industry and wellness industry in Australia. Thanks, Matt.

Thanks, Richard. Great to chat with you.

You too, champ. Thank you, team. If you've enjoyed this episode, you want to know more about EMS training, specifically the number one in the marketplace, XBody, you can hit Matt's website, xbody— that's like an X, right?— body.com.au, or reach out To Matt George on Instagram or Facebook. I'll put the notes in the show. If you enjoyed this episode or you want to hear more of it, simply go to our website commarketing.com.au and check out some other episodes around. There's around 200 to check out, so there's plenty of audio listening for you guys. Thanks, team. We'll see you back next time on the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show. Bye for now.