Virtual Reality To Get Fit with Owen Bowling 💯

You always be hitting, like moving forward in a big way to serve mass markets of people. If there's a gym or a studio owner listening to that today, how do you, first of all, you know, have that intent to say, hey, I want to serve more people, I want to do more than the person, the people around me, I just want to get bigger and bigger. How do you get your mind to that state, first of all? Hey, welcome back to the Marketing Muscle Up Podcast Show. I'm your host, Richard Toutounji, and in the studio today I have a guest. How good is that?

Here in person.

Here in person. I've got Owen Bowling. Good to have you in. Now, for those who don't know Owen, I wanted to talk about fitness. I wanted to talk about tech. There's a lot of changes that have been happening at the moment in this space, and I thought you're the best person to talk about it. You've been in this space forever and And that's a good thing, by the way. And I know there's a lot of changes that have happened. When we talk about technology and we talk about apps, we may think about, you know, some of the most common apps out there that you're using daily. It could be an Apple Watch. It could be the ring. You've got a ring on today, don't you?

Got my Oura Ring on.

Oura Ring. Yep. I'm nearly convincing myself to buy one of those. And so I did want to talk about, because you're doing some really cool stuff in this space, Now, you also may know Owen for a few different projects being in this space. You're also the founder of Crank It Fitness, which is those straps. I've got a pair, the blue straps. You can't miss them. They've been selling in Rebel and everywhere. And you've distributed those and run education programs to personal trainers for over 20 countries. Now, you're in this space of engagement, attracting, and converting to serve more people. Inside this technology app you're building. So welcome to the show.

Thanks, Richard. Nice to be here. Nice to be here in person on the Sunshine Coast.

Yeah. When I said— when I heard that, you know, I knew you were in the Sunshine Coast, I said, hey, I need someone to test out the 2-mic system here and to see if that works. So we are standing up doing this podcast. Really looking forward to it. Owen, you know, I remember you from fitness shows where you would have massive stands and you'd always be hitting Like moving forward in a big way to serve mass markets of people. If there's a gym or a studio owner listening to that today, how do you, first of all, you know, have that intent to say, hey, I want to serve more people, I want to do more than the person, the people around me, I just want to get bigger and bigger? How do you get your mind to that state, first of all?

Look, I think if I start, if I go back to when I was a trainer, so I was a trainer for about 8 years. And one of the things I loved about being a trainer was the deep level that you could go with your individual clients. But one of the things that frustrated me was you could only see, I mean, I remember working 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM every day at Fitness First in Brisbane when that was really at its peak.

Yep.

And you still could only see about 50 clients. So that was the limit of how many people you could impact, even though you could go quite deep with them. And I always had this sense that I wanted to be able to impact more people. Part of the purpose, I guess, that I feel that I have is to try and positively impact more people. So part of the kind of journey with CRANKIT and developing a fitness tool and developing education and having over 4,000 trainers around the world that we educated and all their clients that then use that education through the trainers was about leveraging that impact. So that's kind of a core underpinning thing that drives everything that I do. For a gym owner, I think it comes down to that same thing. I think, and we're going to get into this later, but as an industry, we are very tempted. It's very easy to service and serve people that naturally we have an affinity with. So we service the top 20% of gym members really, really well. But what can we do to actually help the people that really need the help that aren't getting it?

And you're talking about serving the top 20% of the people that are coming into the gym. They're the best participants. They're they're the clients you want, right?

Yeah. But I'm really passionate. I think you are as well about that. There's a whole bunch of people there that actually we could help with the right mix of in-person and technology and the right intention, that actually just having access to our facility is not enough for them. They want it. They want to be fitter and they want to be healthier and they want to improve, but they haven't built up the habits and the behaviors that will get them there. And so, part of what we're doing now is really trying to solve that with a technology play.

Well, let's talk about that because it's super interesting. It's going to take your time up. Now, I guess my first question is, I guess going deeper into this, when you've moved to having an education system and I guess a device like CrankIt that people can use, then going to technology app, we'll talk about in a second. I mean, how does one transition, first of all? into that? Is that something that, you know, everybody wants to create the next app right there? You know, everybody knows that. What is, you know, how do you do the transition? And I'm talking to anybody who has done a massive transition through COVID or they've changed up what they're doing. How do you do the transition like that?

Well, there's a couple of key things. So one of the benefits, there's lots of negatives, by the way. One of the benefits of starting a company with your own money largely and being undercapitalized is that you have to learn how to do a lot of things. So building Crank It Up, I learned how to build websites. I learned how to do graphic design. I learned how to do video, learned how to build education sites. So I learned the backend mechanics of a lot of different technology.

Got it.

Now I'm actually not the technology co-founder in this company, in the wellness program. My co-founder Graham is phenomenal, but I know how all the systems work. So while I'm the fitness guy, I understand how all of the pieces fit together. And then it's really just about really having a passion for the outcome because the technology is there or maybe you have to build it, but if it's enabling you to do something more and leverage more, then you'll find a way to do it. But then obviously partnering with great people is key. People smarter than yourself.

I like that. People smarter than yourself. And you did that with your partner. Now the wellness program, you've got a few things in the wellness program, but take me through what the wellness program is.

So the wellness program started 5 years ago as a concept, and it's changed a lot in that time. I won't bore people with the details, but essentially what it is now is the company that has created the CoachWelly app.

And you've just taken me through the CoachWelly app, by the way. We had a good play on my phone and understood what it was for. And it's quite phenomenal what it does. So maybe let's give a 30-second— can we do a 30-second overview what it is?

Yeah. Look, I've been pitching this a lot and showing this a lot on Zoom. So I've actually created a little phrase that I think Explains it best. So it's like the proactive Siri for health and wellness for gym members.

Wow. Okay. You did under 30 seconds. Let's go. Good. Okay. So when I was going through this, I mean, it really does serve the 80% that are not engaged in the gym. So we're talking about the ones that sign up for the membership and probably don't get there too many times. That's what it's serving, right?

That's who it's for. Now, interestingly, and we didn't really go into the data visualization side of the app very much, but I think it'll probably be used by the top 20%. But that's a bonus. It's really for— so if you imagine that members sign up—

Well, that top 20% will use everything.

That's right. They'll use everything. They have the wearables, they'll use all of the stuff. But yes, members sign up, they have a great intention. If they don't see a PT, and let's be honest, 90% plus don't, then there needs to be a way for us as an industry to engage them and to help them figure out what to do when they come in the gym and to motivate them and to dangle rewards and triggers and behaviors. And so it's for those people to help them succeed.

Amazing. And what are your favorite parts of the app? But there was one of my favorite parts and it certainly was kind of told me what to do before I even knew what I had to do. And that was based on a lot of different resources you put in together on that. Can you take us through that part of the app?

Yeah. So one of the things I'm really bullish on is what I call non-wearable-based biometric measurement. Now, what I mean by that is, you know, I've got an Oura Ring on. I don't love it, to be fair, but I wear it for the data. But a lot of people don't have a wearable. So how do we actually get biometrically validated data that shows us they're improving?

Most people in that 80% zone, I'd say, will not invest in a wearable, right?

No, not one specifically for health and wellness tracking. No. So we actually use a system that allows you to measure your heart rate variability, which is the variation in the time between your heartbeats with the rear-facing camera on your phone.

Wow.

So you do not need a wearable at all. And suddenly we have the underlying number or the underlying technology that sits behind Oura and Whoop and Fitbit. So your recovery scores or your readiness scores, we can now provide that to members without them needing to have a wearable. So just reducing the barriers completely.

Amazing. And just the question of who this app is for. Now, just to be really clear, you are going, and this is the big change here, you're not going to, initially, we're not going to the consumer, you're actually going to the clubs that need it the most.

Yeah.

Talk about that. Who's this designed for?

Well, the idea was, is that it's actually, I really believe in the fitness industry. I believe in clubs. I think clubs are a great central focal point for a member's entire wellness journey. I think we've got a lot of work to do to get to that point, to be the hub and spoke model, but I really strongly believe that clubs can be that central focus point. So this is actually a product that we license to clubs and then they give to their members, and that's a key difference to just going out and trying to give it directly to consumers. So it's a solution for clubs ultimately.

Well, a big solution for clubs because essentially clubs have really focused a lot on amazing equipment, you know, having the best, you know, best experience when they're there. But essentially, at the end of the day, there is a lot of people that are not there. How much are clubs needing this technology from your— I mean, you're traveling around the world presenting this. Who, how many people need this kind of technology?

Look, there's a couple of key statistics that I think, you know, our industry should, should be very aware of, and club owners should be aware of, and that is that During the pandemic, you know, we've all spoken about how there's been this huge shift in awareness around wellness. So McKinsey and Company released a report recently when I was in Singapore. We heard the updated data. 81% of people in their latest research rank wellness as a high priority. And that's up from only a year ago when they did it during COVID when it was 70, low 70s.

Still, 70% is huge. 80% is massive.

So wellness is now this huge focus. There's a huge awareness around it. But as the fitness industry, we've been focusing very heavily on fitness and also on the physical attributes of fitness for a long time. We've got our bodybuilding legacy background. So we have to shift. Now, the reality is, is that a person's wellness, if you think about the time that they spend in the gym in a week, and let's even assume the good ones that are coming 3 or 4 times a week, it's such a tiny proportion of their overall life. If we're going to help them actually improve their wellness, we've got to extend our services beyond the time they spend in the facility. And the only way to do that really at any scale is with technology. What I do like to say though is to operators that I talk to is look at technology as a way to augment a world-class in-person experience. So technology is not there to replace or reduce the cost of in-person experiences. It's there to augment and support it.

See, when I hear that, I hear a lot of business owners say, But Owen, you know, we've built a gym to make sure there's people can come and be here. I mean, is this leading everybody in the gym walking around with AI goggles? And is that where we're going? Is that what has to happen here?

No, I really hope not. No. Look, the thing is technology will not replace what happens with humans interacting together either for a very, very long time or never. And I think probably never. So there's something very special when you have human connection. So what I would say to operators as a counter to that is if you analyze your staff, ask the question, would my staff get a job in a 5-star hotel? Are they at that quality? If they're not, why are they not? Do you need to do a lot of training? Do you need to hire a higher caliber of staff? Because you're in a service industry in terms of the interactions your staff are having from your reception to the cleaners, to the personal trainers, to the manager, to the group fitness instructors. And there's really no reason not to provide world-class in-person experiences that technology will never touch. What technology does is it fills all of the gaps that actually you don't need a human for. All of the automated stuff, all of the routine stuff that actually there's no value that a human provides in that instance. That's where technology fits and fills those gaps.

Yeah. So interesting because these are the gaps that when you look at, um, you know, because I've— over through COVID, obviously this has been a great opportunity to see, well, do people really want to never go back to the gym or never go back to a studio before? But, you know, where people are going back and people are wanting to work out, right? So it really proven that that is 100% true what you're talking about there. But it's also, um, opened up the doors for people to understand this technology and to use it better. How has COVID helped what you're about to launch now? And correct me if I'm wrong, you're about to launch it, right? It's on the cusp of launching.

Yeah. So we've had a prototype version of this product in the market up here on the Sunshine Coast locally, actually. We did about a 6-month trial with a gym, but it looks nothing like the product that we're going to launch very, very soon. So we're going to be launching with a gym chain based on the Gold Coast. And I would estimate, what are we now? July, probably September this year. And then you'll be able to actually find the app on the App Store and download it yourself. So that'll be fun for people to go and have a play. But to answer your question, COVID did a couple of things. There was already industry-wide a little bit of a tailwind around digital and hybrid. Operators were starting to look at it and aggregated content and how do we have apps and so on. COVID just poured fuel on the fire. It accelerated that massively. It also increased the total population globally, the awareness of wellness as a priority and the link between physical activity and wellness as well. We know it, but we assume everybody else knows it. And that's actually not true. That link has now been really set. Also think about the psychology. You know, in lockdown cities, one of the only reasons you were allowed to leave your house was to exercise. So even if you never exercised before, you were desperate to get out of your house. So guess what you're going to go do?

Yeah.

Quasi-exercise. You're going to go walk, you're going to do it. So we've now had this exposure to the benefits of exercise to this huge portion of people that never had it before. And we have a great opportunity as an industry to leverage that and to actually attract those people in, not with rip dabs and sexy, tight-toned marketing images, but actually with the benefits of physical activity as it relates to reducing stress and to reducing mental illness and challenges and all of those sorts of things, energy. So there's so many benefits that we can give people that are outside of that traditional kind of marketing model. And we have to, with our marketing, which you guys specialize in, we have to migrate away from selling the physical sides of fitness. And we also have to provide products and services that cover a broader span of that.

Yeah. Super interesting. And it's It's definitely true. You know, people, there is space for 2. And it's— I love the conversation of this because at the moment now, if you're an owner of a gym, owner of a fitness studio, wellness studio, you've kind of got to really take this conversation seriously to a degree and understand how will you be able to keep engaging with the members who are You know, not 100% plugged in, but they may be exercising at home or they may be having to, you know, their holidays or they've got COVID or something. This is a world that is not— I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. This is the new world we're in. Is that— what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, 100% agree. So we know from the data again and from both the industry and also the big companies that do these research data, we know that digital hybrid omnichannel, whatever you want to call it, is 100% here to stay. It's not going to have the same level of traction that it had during COVID because those were forced conditions, but it's absolutely going to be here. So now what happens is your members, as a gym, your members expect to have some level of digital fitness and wellness offering. Now they're either going to get that from you, who they trust and who they know and who they're paying money to, or they're going to get it from somewhere else.

That's a key point. They're going to get it from you or they're going to get it from somebody else.

They're going to get it.

Interesting.

Yeah. So you have a choice as to whether or not you try and participate more in the overall wellness journey of your clients. And again, you are the one with the relationship with them. So what I would really stress to operators and to gym owners is like, you have a personal relationship with that member. If they go and download an app, that app doesn't have a relationship with them. That app might have a multimillion-dollar budget on production, but there's no human relationship and the tech Cannot overcome that. So you have a huge advantage, and you don't have to need necessarily need millions of dollars to develop your own technology because companies like mine and others are building third-party solutions that you can bring into your business, and you get all of the value associated with giving that to your member.

So good. Now, Owen, now the app name, by the way, just so everyone knows it is. Can you shout it out again?

Yeah, it's Coach Welly, and Coach Welly is a wellness coach. That's why the name is. is Welly.

Coach Welly, love it. And that's not on the App Store yet?

Not on the App Store yet. I also am not sure what we're going to call it in New Zealand because as you can imagine, that could get interesting.

Very good. Very good. Now, so yeah, if you're a gym owner out there and you're looking for a solution, I think they should definitely look at this solution under your company, which is the Wellness program, right?

Yes.

I want to kind of dissect a little bit something else. Fitness business owners, studio owners, gym owners, when you haven't, you know, when you've been in the industry for a while and new things come on the market like technology, like competition we're talking about before, like, you know, online trainers. when they've popped up and you've already had a gym that's opened up for 10 years and you see these online trainers come up. Talk to me about how you approach this from your perspective. You know, you've been in the industry for quite a while. You've had a lot of different, you know, products and programs and education and consumers and face-to-face, I should say, partners. How have you been able to deal with change? As technology or the world changes or people change, what are your kind of go-to solutions to that? Because I think a lot of people are facing at the moment, they're not sure how to deal with this change, even if it's like, hey, I need to talk to Owen and get this in my gym right now, or I need to figure out how their online trainer app's going to work in our gym. You know, people are asking these questions all the time now.

Honestly, I'd probably— I'm going to give you a little handball here because I think The value of having a coach, a mentor, or a third-party service like you guys provide is absolutely critical because what often happens is we get caught in our own heads and it's very hard to see the wood for the trees. And so having a third party that is not in the business that can help you, give you some perspective, you're doing maybe a quarterly review, a monthly review, you're planning ahead, it helps you— really get clarity around your strategy. It helps you deal with things that maybe feel like insurmountable problems, but actually upon reflection with a little bit of guidance aren't insurmountable problems. So I think doing it all on your own is very, very difficult and I wouldn't recommend it. I think find a service, an ally, a coach, a mentor to help you navigate the natural ups and downs that happen in business and in life.

Yeah. Great advice. And it's interesting, we're seeing a lot of people now come to us and say, hey, Richard, I'm doing pretty well. They could be, let's say, a studio owner that's doing $1 million, perhaps a gym that's well and truly past that. And they're saying, hey, we're doing good. We're generating leads. We're doing okay. But we're aware that there's other people that are opening up. We're aware that there's a franchise, a new franchise that's opening up down the road. And so it's interesting you say that because the smart people at the moment are not burying their head in the sand and they're realizing that they have to be aware that, you know, you don't want to look at, you know, look at things, oh, I can't do that or too much competition, but you need to be aware of, go, how can I win? People that have been in the space for, you know, 10+ years and their business is going really well, you know, they're in a really good position. As you said, they just need to understand they are in a good position. They just need to probably learn some new different strategies to get ahead. And to stay ahead, I should say.

Yeah. I think you will have seen this when you're operating for a little while, the things that initially got you quite good success early on often don't then become part of the habit and the routine. And so you get into it, especially if things are going quite well, you're kind of just doing business as usual. Well, that actually, it takes strategic planning. You've got to sit down and review and you've got to look at where we're going. If you're not moving forwards, Then at some point you're going to be going backwards, even if you're not going backwards right now. And that's probably to your point around competition will come creep up on you, consumer demands will change, inflation will cause pressures on consumer spending and you don't have a lower price option. You name it, there's always going to be kind of pressures there and you've got to be strategically navigating your way forwards. Otherwise, at some point, back you go.

You don't grow, you die. We've all been there, done that, which is really, really interesting. All right. I'm pretty excited about this app. I think it serves a big hole in the marketplace. And I'm assuming you're pretty excited about it.

Yeah, a little bit excited.

Yeah. I guess my last question, I just— well, I've got 2 questions. One was, you know, over the next, let's say, 6 to 12 months, where do you predict the fitness industry to be? Is it going to keep evolving and changing again? Are we in this space for a while? What are your thoughts on Just overall, the prediction of retention and growth in someone's gym, perhaps, what should people be expecting from your point of view?

Look, my opinion on this has changed recently because of what's happening with the inflation situation that we see. I think that there's still a lot of recovery in certain geographic regions that is happening post-COVID. So we are seeing really good return to gym numbers. We are seeing good growth again. But actually, there's a lot of kind of not spoken about hidden damage that has happened over the last couple of years financially. So there's a recovery period. The challenge we have right now is that we're coming into potentially, you know, a seriously inflation-affected time.

Yep.

We're seeing that on the supply side. So we're seeing petrol prices go up. We're seeing grocery prices go up. We're not yet, in terms of the stats and visitation, we're not yet seeing that affect the consumer spending, but that's always the thing that comes. So If you are a mid to high priced option, do you have a lower priced option for those people that genuinely struggle to afford you in their concessionary spend budget in the next few months? So that's probably a not so optimistic view of things. That being said, those that plan for that sort of eventuality, which will come and navigate their way through it, will have more market share off the back of it. So there's a lot of opportunity. You just have to be really mindful how you navigate the next year or so.

Yeah. Love it. Very, very good. My other question was my last one. Sorry, my last question was just going to be about the app. When you see improvements that need to be made, how fast? You know, I mean, you always see app versions 1.2, 1.3, 1.4. You know, the business of building an app, just take me through that a little bit. I think also too, to You know, you showed me the app and it was nice and clean. It was fast, but there's a lot of hours like any industry goes through. Just take me through a little bit of an understanding of how the hell would you build an app and how much do you have to really keep changing?

Yeah. So my co-founder would definitely be better at answering this question because again, I'm the non-technical co-founder in our team. However, you need to have a really clear idea of the value proposition, the problem you're solving. And as you saw on the demo, there's a lot of thoughtfulness that goes into features. They're not just slapped on. Yeah. But that's, you know, months, if not years of work. And when you get to the point where you're delivering the product and you look back, it's only because of the journey you went on that allows you to get to that point. So I often have conversations with people that talk about someone copying us. And what they don't realize is that the 2 or 3 years of work and all the decisions and the learnings that we had to make along the way, actually mean that you can't just go, oh, I've got $10 million and I see the interface and I'm going to copy the interface. Yeah. There's so much behind the scenes of why you decided to do things a certain way and how the algorithms are built. If you actually want to get into technology and build an app, A, you need to find a partner that's really, really good with technology. Developers onshore are a lot more expensive than offshore. But if you're going to go offshore, there's risks associated with that. You've got to understand data security and privacy security and being compliant with where the data is stored and who owns the data. And It's a very complex space. So the biggest advice I could give to people is unless you want to be a technology company, probably get someone else to do it.

Great advice to finish off. I think that's advice that everybody should take if you are in the fitness space. Stay in the space, stay in your lane, and use amazing people that have put hours and hours and years and years and years into this. Thanks for jumping in, Owen. It was good to have you in the studio today.

Nice to Chris in the studio. Good to be the first one.

Yeah, thank you. Next time, uh, we'll see the other side of the studio and, uh, work on that. Guys, if you want to, uh, jump in, uh, and check this out, Owen, where's the best place they could— you know, there might be a gym operator there that wants to plug into this. Where's the best place to, um, send them and have a chat to you?

Look, easiest thing is to connect with me on LinkedIn. So just using my name, Owen Bowling. Bowling as in tenpin or cricket. It's very easy. Um, and I'm most active on there, so LinkedIn's a good place to connect.

Perfect. I really look forward to seeing this app used around the world. Very, very exciting times and congratulations. It's a big growth for you moving forward.

Thanks, Richard.

Guys, if you enjoyed this episode of the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show, all you want to do is maybe share it with a friend that you know in the fitness industry, wellness, and even a business owner and say, hey, I got a lot of value from this. You can too. If you do want help with your marketing over the next few weeks, few months, few years, very simply jump into a Marketing Muscle Up call. It's a free call, 30 minutes, and we'll give you some quick wins that you can do in your marketing. Just go to commarketing.com.au and just register for that opportunity on the website. I'll catch you next time on the Marketing Muscle Up podcast show. Bye for now, guys.