How to Amplify Your PPC Results for Clients

with us today. So excited for today's session. We're going to be talking all about how to amplify your PPC results for clients, and I'm super excited to have a special guest, Justin Rondo from Invisible PPC. Um, I've, I've known Justin for quite some time, dating back to when he was, uh, with Digital Marketer, and now he's doing some really exciting things at Invisible PPC. So, uh, give me a yes in the comments if you're watching this live or if you're excited to get into some great insights on how to uplevel the results for your clients with PPC, or just put PPC in all caps whether you're watching this live or on the replay. Awesome, I see some, I see some engagement coming in. I appreciate you guys doing that. Justin, welcome.

There we go in here. Oh dude, thanks so much for having me. I'm really, really excited to, to be a part of this today.

Fantastic. So I guess let's start out, kind of give us, give us the quick 10,000-foot overview what's going on with you at Invisible PPC and kind of what the latest and greatest is.

Yeah, so, um, over the last— what, we bought it back in November of 2021 from Rob Warner. So if you're familiar with IPBC, you definitely probably know Rob. If you're new to IPBC, then you know my smiling face and my business partner Avikumar's. Um, but really, like, our whole goal has been to become what we, we like to say is like in the top 5% of the best agency, best PPC agencies out there. Like, that's, that's been our goal and like our mantra and what we've been really, really pushing like our, our ad specialists and our ad account managers and all those to like really dig into. Like, we want to be what I like to say is a, uh, was it an inch, an inch wide and a mile, mile deep when it comes to PPC performance and really just being that support system and that fulfillment partner for agencies who want to offer PPC to clients. And in most cases, like, clients are begging them to do it, but they just don't know how or they can't make it profitable for their agency. So that like, that's literally why we existed in the first place and why we still exist today and really are one of our main core visions.

Fantastic. So, so good. Um, and so I know we've got some people that are in-house, some people that are outsourced. Um, I'd love to get some insights from you, like, with all of the changes in what's going on with PPC, like, what are some tips you could share with the group that, um, you know, that they could implement to generate better pay-per-click results for their clients on Google Ads? Other PPC networks?

Yeah, I mean, uh, the first thing is going to be like, make sure you're, you're really checking your, your conversion tracking. That's like the number one thing. Um, I, I, when I was, when I was running my in-house team at Teamwork for a little while, and then at Digital Marketer before that, like the easiest place to screw up— and, and I've, I've made, I've had tens of thousands of dollars mistakes in this type of thing— is in attributing the wrong conversion action to the action that's actually occurring. So make sure that you really, really understand that and you've tested that thing out. Um, because Google's only go— and Google or any network is only going to give you back the info, like the information that you're providing it, right? And it's only going to be able to optimize based off the things that you're providing it. So like a basic area where I see people really, really screw up is like, if like I've seen people associate like a conversion action with a click when the click's not actually the conversion. And then what that signals to Google is, hey, I need to get more people who do these types of clicky things. Or who do this action, which then will really dilute your audience and you'll be doing its job and it'll be spending your money, but you're not going to be seeing it in the bank account. So that's like kind of the number one thing. It's real basic, but make sure your conversion tracking is covered. If you don't know how to do that, there's people who do. Like, don't— like, if you're not comfortable with kind of digging in and doing those types of things, don't do it. I have a rule I used to tell all of my teammates at DM, at Teamwork, and Invisible PPC, anywhere I've ever worked. Is if it's taking you, if it's something outside of your core competency that's taking you more than 30 minutes to an hour to do, find someone else to do it. Just get someone else to do it because they're going to do it faster, uh, and they're going to do it right. Uh, so that's, that's kind of the way I'd go there. It's like, it's kind of know the fundamentals, know the basics. I think the other stuff you need to be thinking about is, um, is, is really just taking a look at, um, I guess it's all fundamentals. It's really just is about the fundamentals when it comes to PPC. It's, uh, it's make sure that you're, you're measuring the campaigns based off of the, the goals that you're providing. Are you trying to generate leads? Are you trying to generate sales? Are you trying to generate traffic and clicks? And based off of that, match the type of content and offerings to that. So, um, like for Facebook ads, like don't try to measure the success of like a traffic generating, uh, campaign by the number of sales it brings in in the first 30 days. It's just not going to be the right thing to do, right? You need to be able to feed that engine and feed the retargeting mechanisms and feed your funnel to do that. So, so measure it appropriately. And then finally, it's like dedicated landing pages, dedicated landing pages, dedicated landing pages, a homepage, a product, like product pages for like, you know, like e-com and those types of things. Cool. But like your homepage might be stunning, but you're, it's not focused. Like that's the importance of a landing page. You need focus, uh, in order to make people convert because man, we are finicky folks. And, uh, even more so on Google, you wanna make sure. That there's consistency between that landing page and the actual ads that they're typing in so that they know that, hey, they're in the right place and they can take that action.

Yeah, no doubt. I think it's like the fundamental thing that anybody running Google Ads or any type of advertising should be conversion tracking, right? And making sure that it's pushing back into the network so you can really measure the outcomes. You know, most of our listeners and watchers are local agencies. Serving the, like, the local business, right? It might be the local roofer, plumber. We work with plumbing and HVAC companies, chiropractors. And I think that the conversion typically comes in the forms of web forms every now and then, chat more and more, and oftentimes it's still gonna be a phone call, right? They're calling into the office. And I feel like conversion tracking is relatively simple for the form, right? Yep, they submitted the form and they got to the confirmation page. I think where some agencies get hung up is the phone track conversion, even if they're using, um, you know, WhatConverts or CallRail or, um, go HighLevel. Do you have any tips on how to conversion track phone, um, or like kind of work around that? And, um, and, and chat conversion now if people are using live chat and things like that?

Yeah, I think, um, in these cases it's— you kind of nailed it already. It's like there's— use the third-party tools that are out there because that's going to be one of the only ways to show that your agency's actually doing the job that it should be. If you're using their standardized phone number in those call extensions or anything there, they're gonna be thinking like, oh, hey, look at, I did this. And it's gonna be really hard for you as an agency to justify like that, that to like explain like, no, that was actually my work that did it. And it's, you, you'd be shocked actually, probably listeners here wouldn't be shocked, uh, at how many, uh, how quickly, uh, a client will start taking credit for, for all of the things that they can't directly attribute to you. So, um, we use Call Tracking Metrics for on our side of things, but really look at any of those types of tools because they're engineered, they're meant, they're a specialized tool that's meant to make this life so much easier for you. And like, it's just a matter of dropping a script in it, like in there, like you have your conversion script set up in the tool, you're done. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to, um, you know, have like multiple number, like you don't need to set up like a new phone number for like, like physical phone number where it's like, if they call that, that's the PPC phone now. You don't need to go into those types of things. Um, but But really it's a matter of just knowing, and this is the thing I have to remind my, we've had to remind our team before and remind folks. And when we work with people, it's like these types of tools exist because they have like a specialized solution for you. So just use 'em like they're a nature of doing business. Don't try to outsmart things. Don't try to like, you know, do any sort of duct tape marketing between like your integrations, especially when it comes to conversion tracking because they that is again the signal that's gonna help you scale. Right, right.

So I guess to, to Justin's point, right? The technology exists, right? Don't feel like you have to figure this piece out, right? But know that the technology exists where you put a script, it swaps the phone number based on the source.

Yep.

When they dial that number, the system can figure out which keyword, which ad group generated the call, and you can push that data back. I do find like, some of the step-by-step how-tos, like from CallRail specifically, and even from HighLevel, agencies get stuck. Like, they do it, but when they start to do it with 50, 60, 70 clients, it doesn't work correctly. And so they've got misattribution, they've got issues. Do you find that whatConvert solves that, or is this just kind of something you have to constantly be troubleshooting?

It's— there's no— yeah, it's troubleshooting, unfortunately. It's kind of— and that's why, like, That's why people like us exist. That's why like marketers exist and then like especially technical marketers because there's just so many opportunities for things to go wrong that you do need to make sure you're staying on top of it. Like there's plenty of tools that, that, that will claim that like, you know, set it and forget it. But anybody that's like that, I'd be a little hesitant to kind of focus on.

Yeah. So I think an important point, right? Even if you feel like you've set this up, whether you're doing it in-house, you've got a third-party service or a contractor, even if you feel like you've got conversion tracking set up, this is something you need to have checks and balances where you go back and double-check, is everything routing through correctly? Like, can you give us like some tips for the agencies, like on the key things that like a PPC ad manager should be looking at maybe on a daily or weekly basis to optimize the performance of campaigns? Yeah.

And I'll bring it just from how we do it internally. I think that's probably the easiest way to, to break it down. So you don't need to be verifying your conversion tracking daily, like after once it's set up and you have those things in place, obviously. Cool. What you're, when you're going to be wanting to look at that is more like is when you think something's up, when you think something's wrong. But in order to know something, to think or know something's wrong, you need to be looking at the dang accounts, right? So from a daily perspective, Um, what we do is we have someone in the account each and every day kind of running through a checklist of like, what's going on with search terms? Do we see any search terms that are, that are triggering, um, triggering ads that shouldn't be, right? Because, um, it's— and Rob Warner has been doing some really interesting research lately on, on these types of things where exact match ain't as exact as it used to be. Um, so these things can kind of sneak in, and, and it doesn't matter if you're, you know, you know, long-time PPC expert, like, they, they find their way in and I know your clients' like budget, it's, it's good. They're going to be tight on that and they're going to be very protective of that budget. So you want to make sure that, man, like what's going on with those search terms? So that's the number one thing we have them looking at first. Then, then you'd be, um, kind of looking at like how are things going from bid adjustments? Are we, are we limited? Does it make sense to scale out? Like anything along those lines, but that's more daily reactive type things. So like I, how I, how I look at optimization is two ways. You can be reactive and then you can be pro and then you need to be proactive. The proactive optimizations happen kind of happen weekly. So what we're doing is we're looking at a dashboard that we build for our clients or for our partners. And we're looking at, you know, what's their visibility looking like? What's their engagement looking like? And what's their conversion looking like? And then associating costs with all of those things. And then that's where it's going to tell us to start working, right? That's going to say, hey, conversions are actually kind of down. And then we go, cool. Let's take a look at the landing page. What's going on here? Are we consistent from the ad to the landing page? Um, it'd be really silly for us to hang out and try to optimize or split test a landing page if we don't have a conversion problem, right? So if we had, let's say, an engagement problem, like, oh man, like we're getting, we're getting a lot of impressions, but we cannot get them to click. All right, let's start playing around with ad copy. Let's start running some tests there. Let's start seeing how we can get people to, um, to make that next action, right? And then if it's a visibility issue, then like in some cases if you're in very niche markets, visibility's tough and that you might be limited by that. But like what are some other interesting things you can do that won't sacrifice conversions at the end, right? It's real easy to get people to click, to get people to see your ads. You can— Google will spend your money, but, um, you want to make sure that you do have those checks and balances in place to say like, hey, impressions are up, how has that impacted engagement and how has that impacted conversion? So anytime you're making any types of changes like that, after you've identified the area of opportunity, whether that's taking something from bad to good or taking it from good to great, then you look at the ripple effect and how it's impacted everything else. So that's, that's really what we're doing weekly is like, okay, based off of performance, are we, are we kind of where we expect to be? Yes or no? If, if yes, cool. How can we do better? If no, how do we get to where we need to be? And that's how we're gonna look at it from those stages of visibility, engagement, conversion.

Love it. Good, good stuff. And I know coming from, from Teamwork, you're very project management oriented. I know you probably have some amazing project templates that you guys run internally there at Invisible PPC to really stay on task with all of your client accounts.

Oh yeah, it's, it's— I feel kind of dirty saying this because like we use ClickUp.

Oh yeah, and so do all the other— most agencies these days, right?

Oh yeah, that, that— yeah, that one, that one hurt. Um, but, um, But, you know, swallowed my pride a little bit there. But yeah, we like— I've actually been on a couple of, um, couple of trainings with ClickUp actually on one of them, walking through kind of the onboarding process and how we do this. Like, we have everything set kind of ready to go where it's like when we OB a client, we're just like, great, duplicate this template, run the playlist, and then go. Um, it creates— it makes it very easy for us to set expectations with folks and then also makes it really easy for our, um, for our internal team to really just crush targets and just be like, all right, let's get these things, let's get these things live.

Love it. And I do wanna come back to that onboard process and to kind of talk about that a little bit, but I also wanna, you know, get you guys' questions. So if you have questions for Justin, let's ask them and let's get them answered. This was one I had. So since it came through on chat here, I wanted to make sure we talk about it. Thoughts on Performance Max versus search campaigns for home service business specifically? Like how aggressively are we running with what Google tells us to do or just kind of, you know, manually controlling it? I'd love to know your perspective on that.

Yeah. Um, so PMAX, it's, it's so funny how much PMAX— PMAX spends money, one, like that's what it spends money, doesn't necessarily make money. Um, where we've seen it work pretty well is if you have like physical locations, if you're in e-com or if you're in physical, if you had a physical store to go to with, with like kind of offline conversions and other things. Um, for service businesses, it didn't really work all that well. We tested it out with a few folks that they were adamant that they wanted to do it normally. We like to be the prescriber, be like, no, this is how this should be done. Um, every now and then we can get our arms twisted. Uh, and so we're like, fine, you want to try PMax? Like, we can allocate a little bit to that. We'll see what this drives. And, um, the problem with PMax is one, there's— it's, it's a black box. There's a lack of control completely. Um, and additionally, it's going to kind of some of the less desirable display networks that Google has, right? Like before you used to be able to exclude like in certain areas, like, no, I don't want this like showing up in like Gmail or kind of showing up in these other areas, but it's, it's not going to do, it's not going to have the impact. I think that most people were saying it would. And I've seen a lot of people backtrack on this now too. A lot of like, like experts in the space, which you're, people are allowed to, like, you can be right one day and then new data can say, oh no, wait, let's, let's hold, let's pull back on this one, which I'm seeing a lot more people do. And like just a, a good example, like I was running PMax campaigns. We were running about $300,000 a month in ads at one of the companies I was at. Instead of disclosing exactly which one it is, you could probably figure it out. But we were running $300,000 a month just on Google Ads, about $70K going to PMax. And that $70K spent so quickly and we could generate a lot of that first action, right? And this conversion tracking action was correct. Like we were going for trials. We wanted people to sign up for something. Conversion tracking, man, it could, it could get us trials for 10% of what it would cost us to do it for the search network. Right. But there's a big, big, but we got maybe 2 accounts total, like not like percent. Like it's crazy. So what PMax is phenomenal at, it's driving that initial conversion action. If you're looking for meetings, if you're looking for downloads, if you're looking for anything, it can do that and some. The quality is gonna be very suspect and it's gonna be really, really tough for you to convert those into clients down the line. So that it, and the fact of the matter is because there's a lack of intent going to it and you'll also see a lot of stuff coming from standard, like personalized emails versus business emails when you are using PMax as well. It's, it's odd. Like the percentage base was, I think 90, 90% of the leads coming in there when we were running that for, on a B2B company were personal accounts, which we couldn't do a whole heck of a lot with. They were kind of the lower, lower quality. So you're gonna see a lot of those coming in and just, it's not, it's, it's, it's not going to kind of get you that, that deeper level conversion. It's, it's great if you're like, I just want people to sign up for this one thing.

Just quantity. It can give you quantity, but not necessarily the quality and not the control that you want where you could say, I want, you know, this type of person on this type of network and really be in control of your outcomes. So it sounds like not a big fan of going down the Performance Max path.

Especially in the home, like kind of in the home service world, especially. It also just lacks, again, that level of intent. Which search just crushes. Like when people are searching for something, there's a re— like there's a reason why like certain niches just work on Google. It's because it's not a matter of being the best, it's a matter of being first. And so if you're able to be first and you're able to answer the call in a timely fashion, you're going to win the business. You don't get that with PMax.

Nice. Yeah, I think that's a good insight. I think one of the great things about you is you've got the big corporate experience at some of these big companies. And you've worked in so many different verticals now at Invisible PPC where you've got insight into what's working for the local chiropractor and what might be working for the big e-commerce company. So day in, day out, what would be your suggested path for the local business?

So path in terms of just pure— In terms of Google Ads setup specifically, I guess, what kind of structure?

Do you just do search? Do you do search with retargeting? Um, is there some like methodology you think works best?

Yeah, so, um, definitely search and retargeting for sure. Um, but like search is, is going to be more expensive. So like if you're working with your clients, like making sure that when you're getting these things in place, that, that they understand the unit economics and that you're not, you're not shining like the, this, like you're not taking like the, the best day scenario and trying to make it look like the average day scenario. But in terms of like campaign structures, like this is an easy kind of structure that you can utilize that I think works quite well. Um, it's, uh, so we run branded campaigns. Yes, you should be paying for brand clicks.

Always.

You absolutely need to be doing that. Um, then I have a concept called, uh, brand subsidized, which would be brand plus non, um, plus non-branded keywords. So what you're doing is you, you get the benefit of some of those non-branded keywords that then might be catching within brand. So it cuts down on some of the, the non-branded as well. It's It's a— we've been doing it on a few.

So like, in this case, if the client was Shamrock Plumbing, we're bidding on Shamrock Plumbing, that's our branded term. The brand branded plus would be Shamrock Plumbing Home Services, which isn't the name anymore, but it still seems close enough that that, that's a branded search.

Yeah. And so we like to break those out because we want to know, you know, what, how do those campaigns differ. And then you have true non-branded, so these are going to be your most expensive. Um, in terms of like, you know, what are, what are the like short-term and long, uh, long-tail keywords that people are going to be going after? And then, um, competitive campaigns as well.

Plumbing, plumbing services, emergency plumbers near me, on and on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep, exactly. And then you can go into competitive keywords as well. It's, it's not illegal to— like, I hate when I get— we used to get cease and desists at other companies, but like, you're bidding on our stuff. It's like, because we can, right? Uh, it's totally fine. It's worth doing if you're trying to break in, because again, you don't need to be first. I mean, you don't need to be best, you need to be first. So if people are searching for those, that's real helpful.

And so now we've got branded, they search for the company name. Branded Plus is like they search for the company name with a couple other keywords separate. We've got the services, and now we've got competitive, which would be in this case Shamrock Plumbing bidding on the local Bob's Plumbing and Roto-Rooter and Zoom Drain.

Right?

And just knowing like if that's in their service area, they're looking for the competition, but we're coming up in that search. We find that works really well if you train the client, right? The client needs to know, look, we're going to be bidding on the competition. They're going to call in thinking they're getting Roto-Rooter. Whoever answers the phone needs to understand that's intentional and you want to try and, hey, actually you've reached Shamrock Plumbing. What, is there anything I can help you out with today? Or hey, we actually got technicians in your area. Did you want to schedule a time? If the client understands that and is prepared to have that conversation, it can be really effective. If you throw that competitive campaign on top of them, they don't know it. They say, oh, this is— no, this is, this is Shamrock Plumbing, right? You're trying to get Zoom Drain?

Here's their number.

And I've seen it happen. It's like, no, we just paid, we just paid like $72 for that lead. Like, you need to know how to handle that call, right?

Yeah, absolutely. No, that's a, that's a really good call. And I think that's critical for anybody in this space when it's, it's how much you need to train the client. As well. So if you're in the agency space and letting them know, here's how you should handle these types of calls. Like you're gonna be getting this type of in, like you're gonna get these type of inquiries. Like that's so critical because if you're not the one that's charged with closing those leads, you wanna make sure that you're setting them up to succeed to close those leads. So say closing's not part of your service offering, you're just like, hey, we're, we're doing pure demand gen. You need to set them up to win in these scenarios because, um, that, that like they're just gonna say, hey, the leads are garbage and it doesn't matter if Like they are or not at that point, if the perception is that they're garbage, they're gonna, they're gonna leave you. So that's, that's a really good callout. And then obviously retargeting, like if you have enough traffic going to things, running remarketing campaigns are always a really strong way. It's gonna be your cheapest traffic. It's just, you need to make sure you actually get, if you're running that many campaigns in general, you should be getting enough traffic just from PPC alone. My guess is you're also doing SEO services and you're likely doing like LSA ads or anything like that. So. If you have the traffic, retargeting is always a good thing. It's just been something that's worked, you know, it just works. So, so do it. That's great.

That's a great structure there, right? You can like, and in reference of order, it sounds like that's the order too, right? You start with the brand. Let's use the budget on people looking for you specifically and or like the brand plus the most high transaction value services and making sure we're really focusing on those. We've got good landing pages for those. We're tracking the conversions, we're knowing what our average cost per lead is and listening to the calls to help make sure they know how to convert them and that they're actually converting the opportunities into jobs and revenue on the back end.

Exactly. Because that's all they care about in the back. Like, we can nerd out on marketing stuff and be like, oh, look at the CPA on— or like, CPL is great. Impression share, oh, we're crushing it. But if it's not turning in dollars and cents, they just don't care.

No doubt. Yeah. Excellent. What other questions do you guys have? We'll keep, we'll keep riffing on some cool stuff here, but if you guys have specific questions, let us know. One question that just came in, uh, was how do you track conversions when you don't have access to the client's back end?

That's hard. Uh, so like in a lot of our cases, like when we have— when we're doing lead generation, we rely on feedback loops from them. So like We're not gonna be like, we're not piping conversion data. Like the, like we're not saying these number of sales and piping it back into Google. Like for IPPC, we're trying to generate you leads and we're trying to generate you qualified leads. And so if you're in the lead gen side of things, if you're e-com, different. Um, but in those cases, like we have to get a general feedback loop from them and we have that in our monthly meetings. And like if someone's kind of like chiming in like, hey, such and such saying quality's kind of low, we go, cool. Let's, look into it, cuz in those cases we'll like listen to the call recordings if, uh, if they exist for those, we'll take a look at those form things just to see if things look legit. Um, if we were to try to con— like optimize for conversions at the sale level, those, those would have to be done generally through an offline conversion that then would be too— there'd be too few of those in a given 30-day period to actually optimize for. So you have to move up to that next leading metric, which would be kind of the, the form fill or the call, and then working with the client to, to identify what was quality of those. And then you can start going, okay, these ones were quality, it's these keywords getting us this quality, let's maximize what we can do there and making sure we're not losing in the bidding war at that stage. So hopefully that answers that for in terms of like, um, the client's backend. If you can't see conversions at all, like you shouldn't have that client. Yeah. Like, cuz they're, they're gonna fire you. 100%, right?

I think that at a minimum, if you set up the landing page, right? You've got access and you've got call tracking and web form tracking. That at least you can say, here's what we spent, here's how many clicks we got, here's how many leads were generated. And it could be a phone call, it could be a web submission. And that's enough, right? To be able to really be able to show them. And if you then start to follow up with them, like you said, and have those feedback loops, we're not expecting a complete end-to-end, you know, tracking through to whatever their dispatch system is or whatever their client management system is. It's really just, did we get a lead? What was our average cost per lead? And then helping them see like, are these leads converting or not converting? Usually that's enough to win the day.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's funny, like, it's funny, like in the agency space, I feel like a lot of folks are like, oh, we have to get to this like optimal, like end-to-end scenario. That scenario doesn't exist anywhere. Like just, I just want to say that now, like, doesn't matter what size company you're at, like you're chasing a dream. At that stage.

Just doesn't need to, you know, close loop tracking down to the penny.

Nope. No, there just isn't. So be okay with that. Make sure the client— like, educate the client that that's kind of the case in there. And just make sure you're saying, we're committing to getting you this number of leads at this cost, and then we want to know how they're converting, and we will continue to get you the highest quality we can.

Yeah, no doubt. So another good question here, um, is from Slim. He's saying, is there significant, significant difference in PPC strategy for B2B? Like if you're going after agencies or if you're going after, you know, business-to-business services versus B2C, like maybe the plumber, the chiropractor, that type of stuff?

They, they do vary. I think, um, on the B2, like B2C side of things, like that's where, um, that's where I think it's, it's a little bit easier, um, and you can be more— that's where you can, you You have to be first, not best. That's kind of the scenario there that you, that you need to be in. B2B is a different, different animal. Like we've worked with a lot of like mortgage brokers, financial firms, like those types of people. And you almost have to, you're not kind of measuring on like trying to generate meetings or calls for them at that stage. You're trying to generate like higher intent leads that then they can then work through their sales system, right? So in the financial space, like, like, hey, like get, get a quote on your, on your loan or whatever. Like here's kind of the rates we, we'd build. Like we built a calculator for, for one of our clients where we're saying, hey, on the landing page we'll have a quick calculator. Give us like whatever the standard rates are here. Hey, like this isn't an actual quote, but this is kind of the ballpark. Would you like to talk to somebody is how we kind of transitioned to that. We also tested that against just like fill in this information, this long form information for, for a quote. We've been seeing it a little bit with like ERC credits. Like we've been working with some of those folks as well, um, where that goes into just, hey, we're gener— we're trying to generate a high quality, almost web form lead. They're not looking for phone calls in that scenario. They're looking to build their database with high intent folks and it's a much longer sales cycle. So B2C is in both cases, you wanna rank high and you wanna be, be showing up to take those actions. You just need to be looking a little bit differently where it's in the B2C. It's like we're trying to get on the phone or have like a high-intent form fill. It's like, hey, I need to get someone on the phone, which is why I generally have like some of those sequences in HighLevel. Like, hey, let's just text them back or call them back right now that they're in this. Cause the goal is to get them on the phone or in somewhere where they can make a decision as fast as possible. Whereas B2B is a much longer sales cycle. They're in more of a consideration phase versus a, hey, I know this problem. I have this problem. I need this problem fixed phase. So that's just the different approach.

Yeah, I think that's, that's a perfect answer. Hopefully that answers it. But yeah, um, versus going straight to appointment or straight to, you know, a submission where maybe we're capturing a lead, we're nurturing that lead through a decision buying process. It's just a different, it's a different animal. And you can be really effective as an agency serving either, but you need to be a little bit more sophisticated in your approach going B2B, right? You need to have like thought through those extra layers. Um, coming back to retargeting, um, do you consider a traffic bar, like a minimum amount of traffic a client needs to have before it makes sense to run retargeting, or before that's really effective?

I, I tend to stick with kind of like the books on this one. I think you can start at like 100, but go like 1,000 minimum.

Um, like if they're getting 1,000 visitors a month, less than that, just run traffic.

Right.

If they got 1,000 more, drop the pixel, turn on the retargeting, you know, and leverage some of that spend.

And here's the kicker though. Make sure that like if you're utilizing other, if you're going to plan to use other networks for retargeting. So if you're using like AdRoll or like whatever, make sure you have those pixels set up during, during the process, during your onboarding process, put those on too. Like get, obviously get, you don't, you don't want to slow their site down and let them say, cool, uh, happy to do it, but have that stuff there. So it's populating so that you can turn those on when you hit that threshold. So you don't have like a 30-day delay period. It's just a nice thing to have as well. But don't like ever sneak like code on people's site. Let them know that that's happening. If you're building the landing page and it's yours, so whatever, you can kind of do what you want because it'd likely be built on a subdomain. But yeah, I just wanted to throw that out there.

I think, yeah, regardless size-wise of the client and whether you're doing just PPC or maybe you're doing the full strategy, the sooner you can drop those, those codes, on, the better, right? Because then you're building that audience and you can turn that on at whatever point in the process it makes sense. What are your recommendations for putting the retargeting tracking? Do you use Google Tag Manager? Do you put it on like a little page at a time? Like, what are any suggestions on that front?

Tag Manager all day. Like, you have way more control in that scenario and then you don't run into disparate code. I remember at Digital Marketer, dear God, we screwed some things up and I did it. So whatever.

It's on you, right?

I'm not calling anybody else out. I'm calling myself out on this one where we'd have it in our landing page builder or on the individual settings versus global settings. And I was like, and I'd have it in Tag Manager and then we have a different Tag Manager. Tag Manager is the way. It is the way in these scenarios.

Yeah. So I mean, if you run an agency, this shouldn't be new information to you, but you know, if you're putting any kind of code on your client site, set it up in Google Tag Manager. It's one piece of code that goes on their website, on their landing pages, on any of their properties. And you can add scripts in Tag Manager and it will populate to all of those different channels, all of those different sites. And so it's the easiest way. You set Tag Manager up once and then you just add your new scripts, like for tracking and for other things as you, as you go.

Yeah.

Excellent. Fantastic. All right, here's a good question. If I can get it to populate here. 28 Circles, for seasonal companies like pool builders, is it better to shut off the campaign at the end of the season or cut as much spend for cash flow reasons?

I'd reduce spend. I wouldn't cut it because you're gonna have to go through a learning period again, like during the upswing. So when the season comes back, It can be put down to like a very low budget, but you're going to want somebody like, if you're spending any money, you want to make sure you're managing it. It's not again, set or forget. I wouldn't cut completely because there's going to be people that would be interested in things that can you start, like they might not be interested during the off season, but you could have them primed for when the busy season's ready to go. Um, I've seen this happen too often where we'll have, we'll be so successful with people. They're like, man, our client just doesn't want to run this anymore. Yeah, we're good. Let's turn everything off. It's like, Hold on, like, let's like at the very least reduce, like, but you wanna maintain management of that reduced budget. Because yeah, there's gonna be like spinning up new campaigns again. There's always a learning period in those scenarios. Google likes it when you're consistent, at least consistently running, like you can, you know, go up and down in terms of your budgets. But yeah, I would, I'd recommend if you can make sure to cut spend and, and keep those things running, at least the branded campaigns, at the very least branded and competition. If you're not kind of like really like non-brands can be your most expensive anyways. So you can at least make sure if someone's looking for you, you're first. Like that's kind of the—

Yeah, for sure. And I think, you know, in tandem to that same conversation is the client that says, oh, I'm busy right now. Can we pause the campaign? And they wanna do that throughout the week or throughout the month and they're constantly turning it on, turning it off, ratcheting up, ratcheting down. What are your thoughts on, you know, is it okay to do that? How do you modulate that kind of change process?

Yeah. And so that's, that one's tough. We've actually fired clients because of that. What you need to do is you need to get a commitment from them to be like, hey, like we are committing this, like this budget to these campaigns. If like, if you're seeing like, hey, like if they're saying, hey, like we wanna do a big push, like we wanna spend, we wanna front load the month. Cool. Like just make sure that you know that in advance. We, we actually, when anybody's working with us, if you're an agency partner of ours, in our like terms and conditions, like it says you cannot make changes in here. You and your client cannot. Like we will be, if you do, we'll be like, hey, stop. Like we really need to have control on this thing. Um, and then if, if it happens again, we're like, ta-da, see you later. Um, because we need to make sure there's a level of consistency because If you introduce more variables, it's just gonna be problematic. And then also like when you're thinking about spend in general, like you, you can easily ruin a campaign by just doubling your spend right away. Right? So like most people think, oh, hey, like things are going great. I'm just gonna throw all this money at that. That could actually really, really, really, really hurt you. And then your client would be like, hey, well wait, I was getting $100 like $100 leads and we were spending $1,000. So man, I'm, I, if I spend $2,000 just tomorrow, I should get this many leads. That's never the case. That's only never the case. And you have to ramp up slowly when you're doing these types of things, just like when you should ramp down. Like it's fine. Like if you're like, we just got to cut this, something, something happens. Like that's like, that's the emergency scenario. But in just the way that you pair things up, you should also try to pair things down.

Yeah, I think it's really important as an agency to understand that and believe it, right? Because what I see a lot of agencies, you know, get stuck on is they wanna be very responsive to the client, right? And they're like, okay, Mr. Client, you've got this, you know, this, you know, your dispatch board or your client board is full. So we wanna be responsive to that. We're gonna slow the campaign down. We're gonna reduce the budget until Friday. And then on Friday, we're gonna turn it back on. And you think you're doing the client a service. But what happens is, you know, maybe you're jumping through hoops for the client and it's not just to make things more efficient on your end, it's that when you change variables that quickly and you don't keep it steady, you're gonna kill the conversion of the campaign and they're gonna wind up getting worse results. They're gonna wind up saying like, what happened to our stuff? So you need to understand that that's how things work on the backend and you and your account management team need to have confidence to convey that to the client. Well, no, we can't do that. We need to keep it running at this amount and move forward or down by a certain percentage amount any given week, any given month, because it's going to generate better results for you in the long term.

And I get it too. It's like you might be saying to yourself, well, hey, like if I'm spending more, like I get paid more and you're really wanting to push that, but you're going to want to, again, like if you want to hold on to the longevity of the client, Like you gotta, you gotta scale those things up like at a slower rate. And that's like, we have a client coming on right now that's like, hey, when we're ready to go, we're gonna be able to throw $50K a month at this thing. I'm like, great, we should get started like yesterday at this lower rate and start building this thing up so that we can make sure when you're ready to spend $50K a month that we're there for you.

Do you have any rules of thumb in terms of like what a good average amount to scale a campaign is? Uh, over time, or is there any like benchmarks for that?

I don't have a good one. Um, when I've been doing it, I've looked at like 20, between like 20 and 40%, like I'd test out like depending on like where my starting point was. Um, so kind of like starting slowly there. So it would take a couple of weeks by the time you get to that kind of like final endpoint based off of where you were going. But, um, I'm sure someone wrote a benchmark somewhere else that completely negates that. I think it's more up to preference on those types of things. Yeah.

So yeah, no doubt. So here's a follow-up on this. So if a company only answers the phone Monday through Friday, 8 to 5, you recommend running 24/7 or only when they answer the phones?

When they answer the phones. Yeah. So in this case, like the wonderful thing about Google and those, you can start setting like your times for when you want these ads to show. Take advantage of that because the last thing you want is someone calling in and nobody's answering, right? That's just Uh, that's the nightmare scenario for most people because those calls are wasted money.

Yeah, that's wasted money.

Yeah, it's just wasted money.

Be cognizant of when they're answering, or at least if they have an answer service, um, spend the money when there's a live answer because, um, yeah, good question. Good, good.

That's a, that's a very, very good question. Yeah.

Um, here you go. Um, PPC Professor, uh, how are you guys managing these extremely high PPC when, um Maximize conversions or target CPA that have come in the last 5 to 6 months in Google Ads.

Oh man, I feel like if I— how I answer this, I'm gonna be like BSing you, to be quite honest. I'm, I'm not the guy that's in the account day to day anymore. That'd be— that actually would be something I'd have to ask somebody because I don't want to give you bad, bad info there. It makes me probably look less of an expert in that regard, but I don't want to give anybody bad advice on this one.

Fair enough. And I think you guys have done some really cool things at Invisible PPC over the last year. Um, you know, I know you're shooting for the top— was it 5%? Top 15% of all?

Top 5%.

Top 5% of all agencies. Talk to us about some of the things you've done with processes and team to make sure that you're kind of working towards that goal.

Yeah, so, um, big stuff we've been doing, it's— we maintain that overall pod structure where we have a Like ahead, we have an account manager that's dedicated to, you know, to, to their main accounts, but they're not just like the standard account manager, the one that's like playing telephone between the people doing the work and appeasing the client. They're all some of our most senior Google, like Google Ads staff. We've been hiring a lot from actually ex-Google folks, like people actually did the ads for Google, not the people that made the, like said, hey, do all your recommendations. The people that actually ran ads for the clients that were kind of coming through there. So we were, attracting that type of talent. Um, and then we also, underneath all those types of folks, we have, um, just a team underneath them as well. So there's like, you have somebody that's working on the account at any given time. We also make sure everybody gets certified. Uh, we, uh, do, what is it, 2, 2 times a week we do complete all-hands trainings, uh, for them where we actually like look through the overall, uh, look through the overall account. So we kind of go through the client list highlight certain areas there and then we let kind of people kind of let new people take the role of kind of like the AM and try to talk through how they can, like how we'd want to work on this account, kind of letting people kind of grow in their roles, um, while having way more visibility on that. So our goal was like, you know, just be really good at PPC. And so that's going to be by, you know, collaboration, education, and just doing it.

So yeah, love it. I love the fact that you guys are attracting a lot of ex-Googlers. So you've got some really high talent in the organization, like in the campaigns, running the campaigns. Um, can you talk a little bit about the onboarding process? I think the way you onboard a client with these campaigns really can make or break the outcomes for the agency and the clients that they serve. So if we could talk about that a little bit, I think that would be really cool.

Yeah, so, um, pretty much how it works when, when you sign up with us, uh, you get that account manager, um, and we, we have actually a pretty long lengthy form of like get us access to all of these things. Here's all the questions, like, here's all the questions that we need answers to. So, so we like to, we like to have that. If you have that before you sign the client, makes your life a little bit easier too. So you can ask those questions during your onboarding so that you can then, um, just pass those off to us. Uh, once we have that submitted, like, you jump on a call with our account manager. They tend to do that probably like a day or two after you fill it in, just so that we have time to actually do the pre-work. So we can say, hey, cool, like, let's start doing some competitive analysis to start looking at the overall campaign structures and how we want to attack this thing. Um, if you're in one of our main like local service niches, one of, we call them smart niches, um, a lot of that work's already been done, uh, because, um, we've been doing this for now almost 12 years. Uh, we have like our, you know, database of keywords for both positive, negative keywords. We have the ad swipe copy that we just know converts. We know stuff to avoid, um, the landing page templates and all those types of things. But during that process, uh, once you have that onboarding call, we get final information from you. We'll explain like, hey, here's kind of the pitfalls that we see in this scenario. So make sure you train the client up in this scenario. Are they like, here's kind of the CPA we'd expect to see in this, in this case, here's the offer we'd recommend unless they have, unless you have an offer kind of already ready to go. Um, and then we get to work and it takes about 6 business days for us to kind of like do all the campaign architecture, write all the ads. If you're running retargeting, design the display ads, build you your landing page, set up call tracking, verify all conversion tracking, set you up with the dashboard. And we've been utilizing Clicksies more, um, which is, which we've been seeing positive results there. I know that can be a touchy subject for some folks, but in the local space, it's been pretty useful for us.

Awesome. Love that. Love that onboarding process. Uh, for the, for the agencies that are listening that like maybe you guys are looking for good white label provider and they're, they're interested in learning more about Invisible PPC, what would be the best way for them to engage in and to connect with you and your team?

Yeah, absolutely. So obviously one, the website invisibleppc.com. If you aren't offer— offering PPC yet and, or you're not sure like, like if white label's for you, we have actually a free 33-minute course that you could just kind of walk through that breaks everything down to that. You'll, once you get to the webpage, if you scroll a second, a popup's gonna show up, you'll see it. If you wanna just chat, like I'm always down to talk with folks, like just hit me up on LinkedIn and I'll be able to, yeah, just hit me on LinkedIn, connect with me, message me, and then I'm super active there and we'll, we'll get in touch and find some time to chat, especially if we aren't able to answer some of the questions today. And yeah, and just really anything, anything you wanna talk about, it gets lonely working from From home.

Amazing. And you guys do work with a lot of the top agencies across the country and really competitive verticals and generate really solid results. So they've also done some really cool things in the last year or so that have even elevated the service to the next level, which I think is fantastic.

Thanks. And it's been a heck of a ride kind of coming in and just trying to switch up some things, you know, take what works make what— and then make what works even better. I'm really proud of what the team's been up to and excited just, you know, uh, you know, to be a part of this whole thing. Like, I love the agency space. I've been in the agent space for a long, long time, and it's exciting to, to be able to be the people that do the work for great folks like yourselves.

So good. A couple other questions if you have time, Justin.

I got it, let's do it, guys.

And if you have questions, keep them coming. You've got Justin right now, he's here, he's giving you insights on how to generate better results with PPC. PPC, even questions about invisible PPC specific if you've got them. Let's see, one question is, what margins do white label clients typically use, or do you have a recommended— like, if you guys are charging X, um, X times 2 or X times 2.5, like, what are you usually seeing?

What we see— and so when I talk to you about the setup process that we do, like, that includes like all that stuff, like a landing page and all these other things— generally people will charge between 2 and 4x what they pay with us. Um, and so they, for, uh, for us, that's $595 one time per client. So they charge anywhere between 2 and 4x more. They go on the higher end side of that because things like landing pages and dashboards and stuff are like, it feels real to them. These leads things, like that's still not there. They get all that kind of those quick wins. It feels real. Um, so you're able, and there's more perceived work. There's, there's still actual more work there too, but there's more perceived work and there's a higher value associated with that. Um, when it comes to management, I see 1.5 to 3x or so on, on what they do for our management fees. We charge $495 a month up to $5K in ad spend. And so people will charge anywhere between like $1,000 to $1,500, uh, depending on the, uh, the niches that they're in. Um, if you're in one of those higher paying niches, like you can definitely charge more, um, because like, as long as you're getting them the results, they're, they're going to be more than happy to pay it. So yeah, it's, It varies, but that's kind of the range I see there.

Yeah, and I think the do not go below number would be 1.5. Like regardless of you're using them or somebody else, never go less than 1.5 times in order to cover your costs. You know, as you have selling costs and you start to have overhead in your agency, even if you're white labeling everything, you need to be at least 1.5 times to have any level of profit. Usually you want to be shooting for more like 2, to 2.5. Um, yeah, and so I think he's right on point with those suggestions.

Agreed. And we see it way too often when like we'll have people come in that are new to the PPC space like, hey, I already sold this guy and I'm gonna— I'm— he's paying me $500 a month. It's like, oh my gosh, you shut your— you shot yourself in the foot. And you're not like— and you're not like— that's— nobody's gonna be happy in that scenario. Um, so yeah, I think at the very least 1.5 is the absolute kind of like bottom minimum you should be doing there. Yeah.

So here's a question again from the PPC Professor. Do you find keeping Google search partners turned on in a campaign as still beneficial, or do you generally keep it off in search campaigns?

We generally— I believe we keep that one off. I think just kind of like keeping it more specific there. So yeah, I think I don't have a good comparison of the two, but I just know internally we tend to keep that off in search.

Love it. Again, guys, for those of you interested in learning more, you can go to invisibleppc.com or, you know, just look up Justin Rondeau directly on LinkedIn. He's very responsive. Here's another question. For branded keywords, do you still prefer to drive to a landing page? That's a decent question. Or do you go to a branded site in that scenario?

That's a really good question. I'd probably still throw it to the landing page so I'm in control control of what's going on, especially if you're thinking of it holistically from the campaign perspective. So if you, you're like, what we do in like, if we're running ads, we have our branded campaigns running for like our partners that's going to the landing page unless otherwise noted. We're like, we just want more website like visits there, which would be crazy cuz that's too high of a CPC. Um, but yeah, in general, going, gonna go to a landing page. Um, unless like you're again doing top of more top of funnel. Type work, which isn't really the point of Google, uh, Google PPC at that point.

Yeah, just single point of decision is, is the best play for most PPC. Like, it is a good question, but I would still go to a landing page. Um, any suggestions on your end since we're talking about landing pages on going to like a subdomain versus the, like, the website and a slash page versus like your own website that's set up just for the sake of tracking PPC?

It, um, we, we utilize subdomains. It just makes life easier for us because we build the landing page and we just have you point that to us. Gives us the control from a tracking perspective, update perspective, and those things. Um, it also kind of keeps, again, keeps a singular focus. Some people will like— it's less— there's less interaction, I think, especially from phones and these things, from people that kind of like the, like in like the, the browser. But yeah, I keep it subdomains pretty, pretty simple. I I wouldn't have like a standalone site that's just for PPC. That would get— that's just a nightmare to like handle at that stage.

Um, and then random domains that you're trying to control.

Yeah, forget it. And then folders are fine, I guess, but I think subdomain's easiest, um, for us. But I think you could also have a folder, just make sure you have a category of like LP or something like that because tracking gets easier. But I, I, I'm, I'm biased, but I like subdomain.

Yeah, same. We set up a subdomain for the client site. We find it's the quickest because it's like not super complicated to get access to the website. They don't need us to throw a new website up. We can set up an A record, we can point it and have our landing pages up relatively quickly. And we've got control of the whole, the whole process. And it's the client still is like it's on their domain. They feel good about that. So that's, that's the way we do it as well. Short and punchy works best. go.client-site.com. We've tested 5star.theircompany.com, so it looks like we're getting 5-star service on the front. I wasn't able to tell whether that really had an impact on conversion or not.

Yeah, good. Keep it simple. Go dot. That's what we do as well. We keep it really, really easy. LP, anything like that. Yeah, yeah.

Let's see. Okay, so there was a question here on that topic, which was, uh, what do you find works best, short and sweet landing page or longer, um, assuming call to action like maybe even on the slash part afterwards, like drain cleaning, do you just keep it short or do you try and add keywords in there for, for some reason?

Yeah, I, I keep like for especially at the kind of the URL, keep that short and sweet. Like don't, you don't need to get crazy there, you're not trying to rank, like whatever. Um, in terms of like landing page design and, and kind of structure there, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do my best not to say it depends. Um, but in those cases, like I I try to keep things as punchy as humanly possible, um, where in kind of first position it's gonna be, what do you do? Why should they care? What's to do? What do you do next? Then it goes into kind of more social proof examples of, of work and kind of going that. We have a pretty good, uh, for like formula for that in general. But, um, it's gonna be the, the size of the landing page is gonna be indicative or is gonna be related to the size of the ask, right? How much convincing do you have to do on this page? So if you're working with local service companies and those things, not a whole heck— like B2C local service companies, not a whole heck of a lot of convincing. Do you check the boxes for why they search to get there? If so, let them take that action and let them do it right away. If you're kind of in that B2B more consideration phase, the page is going to have to be longer because they're going to be still browsing essentially, right? So, um, it's, it's, it's related to the ask. Um, but in the cases that we've been talking about mostly today, it doesn't need to be a monster page.

Phone number in the top right-hand corner, bingo, form that they can fill in. How do you feel about landing page having a chat budget or a chat widget on it?

That one, I don't have a good— I don't have enough data on that. It's probably, um, it's— it— I don't think it would hurt it other than like I don't think it would hurt. But I don't have a good enough opinion on it. Like, everyone throws them onto like their homepages. So I'm thinking out loud now. So here we go. People throw them on their homepage. That could be a distraction. If you want to keep things singular focused and your market isn't into like the whole like, I need to go through like this chatbot type thing, I think you'd want to— like, I'd probably in lieu of a chatbot have like a click-to-call bubble as well, um, instead of like a bot. Whereas, um, because especially on a mobile phone, on a, on a desktop, if you had the choice, it might work, but you need to make sure that like people actually— it's not like just a, a form in another disguise, right? That it's actually some sort of like live support help or connecting people with like to talk to.

Yeah, don't send it to a form. Yeah, don't— if it's not really chat, don't do that, right?

Exactly, exactly. There it is. There it is. I got there eventually.

So yeah, I think that's a good answer. That makes a lot of sense. Uh, let's see, Darko's asking, um, you mentioned not to scale too quickly. Can you speak more about this? Is there specific campaign types like conversion bidding or Max PPC CPC?

Um, it's not really going to be based on the, on the, uh, the campaign types. It's really just a matter of like you just don't want to plop a whole bunch of new budget. You don't want to go— you want to be for a campaign you've been running that's like, hey this campaign running like at $2,000 or like at $2,000 a month or whatever, whatever that would be daily. And then you just suddenly go like, you know what, now I'm gonna like double it, right? Um, that's, that's more of what I was talking about versus instead of whether it's—

don't go from $2 grand to $5 grand from one day to the next, right? You like set a baseline and then creep it up or creep it down. Um, how about coming out of the gates? Is there a benefit if they've got a $10,000 budget just leading right out with a brand new campaign at $10K, or do you start and really ratchet it up over time?

With those ones, I would probably— I would— I— if I had, I would probably ratchet it up over time, like, but not to the same. I wouldn't be as, as conservative as I am when you're ratcheting kind of a campaign that's been running for a while, because the, the main reason is because you need to get enough learnings in at the— out of the gate to then start optimizing. That's going to tell you the winner and the losers really, really quickly. But when you're, like, when you're working on campaigns that are in flight, like, making a drastic change, like a budget double or a budget triple, could, could be problematic regardless of whether you're looking at things from a conversion bidding or a Max CPC.

Good, good stuff. Good, good answer here, guys. Let us know in the comments. Give, give Justin a 1 in comments if you're getting value, getting the insights. Appreciate you being just open, honest, transparent, sharing great insights with the group. Amy's got a question. I think this is a good question that, you know, you guys should really be thinking about as agency owners is, do you set the client up with their own PPC account with their credit card and then bill them for the ads management, or do you actually bill them for the spend?

You bill them for the ads management. Never, ever, ever pay for their traffic.

Do not do it. I wish I had like a little alert that I could play.

Yes, yes, yes.

Don't do that.

Oh my gosh, do not do that. And then also like, and here's another red flag I see. So, and so don't be that agency. And if you are that agency on here, we'll have, we'll talk, we'll talk later. Um, make sure that it's their ad account too. Like don't like try to hold them hostage by creating ad account and then they put their credit card. Like, no, no, no, no. Uh, one, like you can't have a credit card in two spaces on there anyway. So whatever, but like let them use their own account, let them hold it. Hold on to that, have them grant you access via their, like, via your MCC, or now like GAM. I think it's, it's, they're not going to make GAM happen, it's always going to be MCC. Um, yeah, have them, uh, have them grant you access that way, and then that means you don't have to worry about any of the billing side of things, like, and you just charge them for the management.

Yeah, like, that is absolutely, there's lots of potential downfall to running the Google ad or the Facebook spend directly on your company account. Um, they could, they could not pay you, they could charge you back. You're still holding the, the bag for that spend. Um, there's lots of potential pitfalls to that. So, um, just take our advice, set them up with their account, add it to your MCC, put their credit card on, and you sell it as, look, this is complete transparency. You're paying us X to manage this, and we're gonna make it work. And then you can see exactly how much going to Google. Um, and that's, uh, it's just a good, uh, a good way to keep things separate.

Yeah, exactly.

Awesome. Let's see, um, how are we doing on time? Do you have a hard stop right now?

Um, I could do one more.

One more question. Okay, let's, let's do this. I think this is a good question to end on. Um, what about ad extensions such as GMB? Do you add those? Do you like trying to add extensions to really beef up the, the, the search result Page.

So we can do 2 more because this is— yes, this answer is yes. What about them? Use them. Um, they're a phenomenal way to, to diversify kind of like your, your results as well as to take up more space. So yes, use those.

Awesome. Yeah, and that was easy. Like, definitely use every little piece of real estate that you can. Um, this has been great. Lots of positive comments here, uh, lots of ones. Thank you guys so much. This has been Awesome. If you're looking for a really good white label provider that, you know, really has this dialed in, can set it up for you all the way through from the landing pages to the ad account management, all the way through to really like maximizing the results for your clients and have it in a white label way where you don't personally have to be involved, you can feel like I've got these guys, they know what they're doing, they're gonna run the campaign for us. I can highly recommend Invisible PPC. And Avi and Justin. So, um, you can go to invisibleppc.com, connect with these guys if you're, if you're in the market right now, if you're just thinking about adding this as a service. Um, and we will wrap it there. Justin, thank you so much for coming on and for all of the, all of the great insights.

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.

Fantastic. All right, guys, thanks so much for joining us live. We'll see you next