Luke Truetken's Podcast Interview with Josh Nelson

in high school. Uh, well, by senior year we were mowing about 100, 100 lawns a week. And so I, I went into that business full-time, like dove into that, trying to grow that and blow that up. I think our best year in that business was like $1.1 million. Um, and then I sold that to my biggest competitor. So we had one town, the density was really tight and I blew that business up in just a few years. And so, um, wasn't really looking to sell, but ended up at 22 with this opportunity and the biggest lump sum of cash I'd ever seen in my life and ended up taking it. Sure. And, uh, that took me down this path of like, what am I gonna do next? And when people ask me about that business, they're like, Luke, how'd you grow so fast? And I had all of these, you know, people I was networking with and all this kind of stuff. And they were like, Luke, we saw you grow this company and sell it, and we've been struggling to grow. Like, we haven't been able to grow. Can you help us? Like, can you give me some pointers? Like, maybe talk to me about what you were doing. I was like, cool. And so kind of ended up in this consultative role for a second. And I like to tell people I was a marketer that mowed grass back then. And so my entire mindset was, how do I get customers? How do I separate myself from the competition? What, what can I do that nobody else is doing in that business? And the great thing in the lawn and landscape space is that there's really not a lot of, uh, innovation that was happening back then. There's a lot of innovation happening now, but back then there was still operating like it was 2001. And so Those are the things that I was starting to like help other businesses implement. So fast forward, ended up with the opportunity to buy into an agency and bought into an existing agency that was doing $30,000 to $40,000 a month. Very broad, very everything you could think of, anything you could imagine under the sky, we were servicing. It, whether it was local service. 60% of our business at the time was, uh, franchises, and we were really blowing up the franchise space. So Tap Out Fitness, Title Boxing Club, Kids R Kids— we would get into a franchise, we'd bring them up into the top 10 in the nation, and then we would get a call from the franchisor and say, you're not on our approved vendor list, but you're blowing this business up, so We want to have a conversation with you. And then we would get opened up to all their other locations. So we were growing that very quickly. Fast forward to COVID. This was 2019 when I got into that business.

Okay.

Fast forward. So I have 2019 going into 2020. Things are moving. We started like a little call center. We're starting to call McDials and make things happen. And COVID happens. And we all know what COVID did. And in one day we lost 50% of our revenue from all of the franchises that we had. So here we are at like $50K MRR at this point. We go down to $25K just in one day, just gone. So that made me start reconsidering, like, what are we doing? Like, and so I was like, okay, home service is where it's at right now. Like, we're, we're doing some stuff in the plumbing space and the HVAC. We have some HVAC and plumbing clients. We have some other clients that are kind of around electrical and stuff like that. So We start going down that model along with— we're picking up some, some lawyers and some stuff like that. We grow it, grow it back up through 2020 to December, and we get to a— back to right about $45,000 to $50,000 MRR. And I'm like, okay, the rebuild of a lifetime, you know. I'm feeling pretty good. And between November and December we churned another like 40% just because the systems and processes weren't there. Um, we were still servicing all these different people, so you know how it is, just like constantly coming up with the drawing board of what am I gonna do. And that's where I was like going into '21, I was like, there has to be a better way. There is no way. I, I was like, this— there's got to be a better way to do this, or like, this is not the business for me. Like, I am 100% going to be out. And so that's where I started like reading books and figuring out what's going on. And I read the E-Myth for Landscapers back in the day when I was in the landscape space. I'm like, is there an E-Myth for agencies? Like, there's got to be, there's got to be something. That's what came, that's where I came across your book. And I read the first book and I started watching YouTube videos and I was like, this is the guy. Like, this is— this guy knows what's up. He's speaking the language. He understands the niche. He understands the problem. And I got on with, uh, Esteban in January, and I said, I don't—

I don't—

this is gonna be the easiest sale of your life. Like, I don't care what it is. What— I was like, tell me the price and I'm in. And he was like, the price? And I said, okay, take— take Visa, take it. And I just knew, I just knew like there, that this was going to help me grow. And so you would, I would like to say that this is 2022 and, uh, here we are at 7 figures and I, I blew it up in 1 year, but obviously now we're in 2026 and here we are just crossing. Uh, so it's been a journey to, journey to really get here. And so I, I was kind of talking about this when I received the award, but Uh, there's so many things that this program teaches, and it's, it's very much laid out like it's, it's a roadmap to success. And I took some things and I left other things, and I said, okay, cool, like, this is great, but I'm gonna go buy me a Jeep, put some off-road tires, and even though it says turn left here on this nice paved road, I'm going to go right and I'm going to go see if I can make my own road to get up there because it's going to be faster this way. And I didn't realize that there was a valley that you get stuck in and all these other things. And so it, it was a journey to get to the 7-figure model or to the 7-figure, uh, revenue just because I was in my own way. I was doing other things. I was, I was trying to plug some other things in thinking that was going to grow the business faster. Like, oh, I don't need to do the webinars because I don't need that. Like, I'm better than that. Like, I'm not a webinar kind of guy. I'm not going to do those. Just that kind of stuff, you know. And so it wasn't until I kind of hit a breaking point again about a year ago today. And I said, look, I was talking to my wife Allison, and I was like, we're either gonna go for that, we're gonna go 100% in on this thing and we're gonna make it, or we're gonna go broke trying. And either way, it's cool. And at least we can say we left it all on the table. And when we go on to the next thing, if it doesn't work, we can at least say we gave it 100%. And, uh, that's really what in the last really right about 12 months now is what we went from 40 to 110. And it's just plugging in the system, getting dialed in, just going back to the basics, the fundamentals, and saying, hey, I'm not better than this. Like, let me go start from ground zero, even though I've been here for so long. Let me start from ground zero and, uh, just make it happen. And so that's really been the journey over the last few years. It's been a long hard roller coaster, but we're here. And this is now just— I feel like this is just the beginning, you know. This is just the start of where we're gonna go. And so, um, it's been a fun ride, and I have you to thank for, for all those different, uh, different pieces and putting the community together and the coaches and your help and your guidance in the program itself. So good, man.

So there's, there's a lot there. There's lots of moving parts from, you know, successful sell the business. Um, talk to us a little bit about like why you decided to go general after having success in landscape versus just saying, hey, I'm going to focus on landscape. And kind of when you did decide, okay, this is going to be my focus, how that changed the trajectory.

So, you know, it's hard when you have legacy business stuff, uh, you know, thinking about the niches and all of that kind of stuff. We were— when we lost the franchises and we went back into like the generalist home service. I think we were mainly like a generalist service-based business, I'll call it that. We had a lot of white-collar, we had a lot of blue-collar, and, uh, you know, we were— I was really depending— or when I, when I got in, I got into Danny Barrera's, um, what was it called, Kickstart back then.

Yep.

And he was talking to me about niches and all that kind of stuff, and he was like, you know, what do you, what do you think what do you think you're gonna do? And I was telling him a little bit about my story, and I think I said, but I think he said, why don't you do landscaping? And I was like, I don't want to be in the landscape space. Like, you know, the landscape space, they just have a lot of problems. There's just, there's just things there that I don't know if I want to do. And we were crushing it in the law space, and we were crushing it to some extent in the plumbing and HVAC space. And I said, I'm either going to do plumbing or HVAC, or I'm going to do the law space. And he said, well, you should really think about like, who is the clientele that you really want to work with? Like, who are the guys that like, if you weren't making money, you would just be happy hanging out with them? Like, they could be your friends, like all that kind of stuff. And I didn't go to college. I went to college, I dropped out of college. Uh, I don't have that, you know, MBA or master's degree or Ivy League school, you know, set up. And for the law space, it almost takes that to get a seat at the table anywhere. They want to know where you went to school, they want to know what the background of the education is. And it wasn't— if it wasn't for the fact that I'd sold a company, I, I wouldn't have gotten seats at those tables. And I think I did have a little bit of a leg up as soon as— so I would lead with that, like, oh, I've sold a company, now I'm doing this, like, and that would get me kind of a foot in the door. But at the end of the day, I didn't want to— I didn't really want to serve that clientele. So Danny put that, that thought in my mind of like, who do you really want to serve? And so that's what took me down the lawn and landscape niche. But to, to get all the way to last year, I didn't want to let go of the legacy stuff. Like, like local businesses would still call me. Joey, who was, you know, a client for 5 years, would call me and say, I've got a referral for you, and it's, uh, plumbing company, or it's, uh, and, and I'd be like, yeah, cool, like, bring it, it's no big deal. Like, yeah, 35, okay, yeah, bring that revenue in here, come on, come on, come on. And it would then distract the team, distract the processes. Those guys would then take up more time than the, than the niche agency clients because of whatever reason. I'm local, they want to meet me in person, they're like 'Come down to the office, it's just 15 minutes away.' And it— you know how those things go. And so it wasn't until really 12 months ago where I was like, 'Okay, we're going all in on the niche. Like, this is 100% all we're doing.' And, you know, dove in and said, 'Let's, let's rock and roll.' So good.

I think there's lots of great takeaways for those of you that are still in that niche selection phase in your business. You've decided You're a generalist, but there's benefit in going niche because you can position yourself, because you can systematize, because you can become the expert. When it comes to selection, where you have some affinity and background is almost the fastest path. And so, in the case of Luke, he was like, he already built the landscape company, the 20 trucks or whatever it was, and sold it. And so, it becomes extremely attractive. There it is, Green Dream. I love that.

Green Dream is the book, but that's me in the truck and all the stuff in the background. If you have any of that kind of stuff, it helps so much.

Yeah, 'cause you can talk the talk because you understand the industry, you understand the revenue cycles and all that. And if you don't have that, not everyone has run a business in the industry they wanna serve. Like I wasn't in plumbing before we entered the plumbing space, but if you've already got a couple of wins, if you've already got some successes on the board, that's gonna be so much easier if your family worked in that business. So Luke, I think that's really helpful. And then I think a lot of agencies get stuck in the trap that you were in, where it's like, okay, I've got this niche thing, I've set up the website, and I'm kinda one foot in, one foot out. Like I'm gonna keep myself open to whatever happens, but I'm gonna try and focus on this. And you never really give it the focus that it needs, and you let yourself continually get distracted. And a lot of cases that's going to keep you stagnated versus accelerated. Like when you did decide, okay, that's it, I'm going to put on the blinders, I'm just going to focus on this space. How did you do that and how did that impact the acceleration?

I just started putting everything out there under Landscape SEO and I think people to some extent started getting the picture that we were— The problem was is that I had so much in niche agency work. That I was, I was afraid to personally promote the landscape SEO side of things because I was afraid of losing that revenue. And it wasn't until I, I said, you know what, like, let's rock and roll and like, let's, let's just put everything on the table here and started really promoting as landscape SEO versus the niche agency stuff and, and what are the, the legacy agency stuff. That's when things really started to dial in. And so that's Um, yeah, that's what's made everything work really well is just, you know, putting it out there, really standing behind the brand, running the ads, doing the webinars, getting on stages, uh, going to the events and all the different trade shows. And even if you don't have a booth, like going and talking to the other vendors and leaving a card and figuring out how to get them on the podcast and, uh sending them stuff. And, you know, it's just all those different little things. It's like there's not just one thing that's going to blow you up. Like, you have to do a little bit of everything to make it all happen. But freeing yourself up from the traditional work that you were doing because you had to go meet the client in person, because you had to go do this and that and come up with a customized plan and all this other stuff that's required with, you know, generalist work, project-based work, all the shenanigans, um, you have more time to spend on those other actual revenue-generating activities. And, you know, I think I saw someone post in the group, uh, some scenario around the account manager, uh, said that the client, a legacy client, didn't want to talk to them anymore and they only wanted to talk to the founder. And that's really what it is. Like, you know, those, those people are the OG clients and they think they get OG treatment. And, and we all grow. And if you want to grow the business, that means that things change and, and that relationships change. And in those scenarios, like, those are just ties that need to be cut. And let me tell you, like, every time you cut something that you think is, is like really hard to keep that revenue or whatever, there is double or triple, quadruple the amount of revenue sitting on the other side. You just can't see it until you let it go, you know. And, uh, so yeah, those, those would be the biggest things— just dialing in, committing, meeting people, shaking as many hands as possible. And just spending the time growing the business. What are the revenue-generating activities that you can be doing every single day, every single week, every single month that bring in the consistent lead flow? It's not going to happen all at once. You're not going to do it today and think that tomorrow you're going to have leads. And it's funny because I get around other agency owners and we start talking about what are we doing for marketing, and guys will go, I spent money on Facebook ads for 3 weeks and I didn't get anything. And I'm like, what would you tell your client right now? You know, like, how many creatives are you running? Like, what, what are you testing? All these different things. Like, oh, I, I did this and it didn't work. Well, how did you track it? What did you do specifically? And I think it's easy for us to think, to sit here and we all preach to our clients, like, how do you answer the phone? How many times are you following up? Are you sending them, putting them in a nurture sequence? Just because they called you today doesn't mean they're gonna buy today. Like, you have all these different things. We said we, we go on these rambles and then we look at our own marketing and we're like, God, they no-showed. Facebook ads suck. This is not gonna work. Like, I just got, I just got 10 calls on my calendar and only one of them showed up. Like, I'm stopping the Facebook ads. Click, click, turn it off, waste of money. You know, and it's just like those kind of things that we do that we don't look in the mirror and we're like, what would we say to our client if we were those people? And then how do we make sure that we go and clean those up and implement that same system and process that we're trying to implement for our clients and bring them results and leads and all that stuff and do that for ourselves.

So there's a gestation period, right? Like decide, all right, I'm going to stay in this niche. I'm gonna do the Bright activities and know that I'm gonna plant these seeds and it's not gonna be immediate. Like we plant seeds and we gotta water the seeds and we gotta be consistent with it. And then it starts to bear fruit over time. And you're in that fruit-bearing season right now. So we know landscape is the niche. And we know that you decided, I've got this general stuff, I've gotta focus on this, I'm gonna put all my focus here. That really drove things forward. Talk to us a little bit about the program. Like, what is it that you do for these landscape companies? What does the program or the deliverables look like?

So we're in a pretty, I think, in line with the 7-figure deliverable model. We do the websites, we do the SEO, we do the pay-per-click, the LSA, the Facebook ads. And then there's things that we add on, on top of that. We do CRM reactivation, management, drip campaigns, email marketing. Uh, we've just recently gotten into print, um, EDDM for these guys. And then a big one that has been super beneficial for us is adding on like video and photography. And so it's a very visually driven niche in the sense that especially on the like project-based work side of things, like people are going to websites to see what the scope and the capability of the company is, and that's driving their buying decisions and what they do. And, um, a lot of these guys, you know, they have iPhone footage. If they have iPhone footage, they, they try to push you to get stock footage, and stock just doesn't really sell. And so that was a huge thing that we added on about 2 years ago, was flying out direct to the client, spending 1 to 2 days with them. We're gearing up right now. Summer is obviously our biggest time for the client between spring and midsummer for them to sell all their work. But we're already prepping now for next year and what they're doing in the fall and what they're doing in the winter and the spring. And so we're, we're prepping, gearing up right now to go on basically a 2 to 3 month road trip of client to client to client to client to client. We're spending one-on-one time with them. We're taking them to lunch, dinner, shooting a podcast in person with them, getting the video testimonial in person with them, and then we're shooting ads and all that kind of stuff with them on site. So that was a huge thing that we added, um, that helped with retention, stickiness.

Oh yeah.

And just the relationships, you know. And, um, not for everybody, it's a hard— you know, we don't have any kids and it's something that we can do. And a lot of other people would outsource that thing, and that's fine too, you can totally outsource it. Um, But if you have the ability, there's nothing— there's like, there's— we have anybody that we've gone to in person to shoot content with, we have not lost, put it that way. Like, the stickiness is just so good because we all know there's going to be 800 people in the DMs. Hey, I can do this, I can do that, let me do this, let me do that. And you have that one-on-one relationship where you've been there, you've seen their location, You know how they legitimately operate, and that sticks in the back of their mind. And so that's kind of a little bit of a secret weapon for us.

Yeah, there's so much power in getting live and in person, and not just Holly Duty, but you're creating value with them. You're recording videos with them. Hopefully you're getting some testimonials as well while you're at it. So how do you package that? A lot of services, their website, SEO, pay-per-click, LSA, database marketing, the whole nine yards. Um, is it like one tier, multiple tiers, à la carte?

Great question. We, we have several tiers— one day, two day shoots. All of those are add-ons.

Okay.

Um, and we, we price it pretty competitively to make sure that we are the ones getting the work because we're shooting the VSL for them, we're shooting the thank you page video. We're shooting the video testimonials for them. We're doing all these other things that make our ad team more successful. Um, and the biggest thing for me right now is like just getting there in person, hanging out with them. I bring— like, next week we fly out to, uh, Minnesota, and I'm bringing a videographer with me. And so he's shooting me, shooting them.

Oh, that's cool.

And there's just some of those different things, you know, like behind the scenes. We turn them into vlogs, we turn them into YouTube content and all that different stuff. And so, uh, there's— it's priced off of packages if you're doing a 1-day shoot or a 2-day shoot. And then like over the summer where we're getting on the road and we're just going from hotspot to hotspot to hotspot, if they book inside of that window that we're going to be in their territory, they get a little bit of a discount because they're booking inside of the time that we're already going to be in the state. So versus like next week, we're just flying there for a one-off shoot, that, that's obviously a different type of pricing.

So, so that's the video piece, which I think, like, you do at a world-class level. Like, look up Luke's YouTube channel, check out the videos he does. I think it's one of the things that really makes you stand out in the marketplace, and you just do it so good. Um, but I think that's, that's separate to your main program. It sounds like it's à la carte. Like, talk to us about the main program and can someone buy those video shoots by themselves or is it kind of like we only do this for our clients that are on our core program? Like, just kind of talk me through the logistics of that a little bit.

Only, you can only, you can only buy the video and photography packages if you're an existing client. And yeah, the packages start with website and SEO services and LSA. And then it goes up to one additional paid ad platform, whether it's Facebook ads or PPC. And then they have like the master program, which is pretty much all paid platforms. Uh, we're doing CRM management for them, whether it's through their CRM, our CRM, which would be GoHighLevel, um, something like that. So like those are kind of the 3 main packages. And then the video and photography stuff is just a bolt-on separate after, after they're a client, but nobody can go and book that. Like you can't, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go out to a non-existing client to go shoot that kind of stuff. Yeah, unless they fall into the Titan program and, and we wanna, we wanna highlight them as a Titan and put them on the YouTube channel and that kind of stuff. But that's very, very specific, you know, like we're going after them for those things. They're not calling us and saying, hey, we want you to come and do this.

So I want to talk about both of those things separately. Can you give us an idea, uh, price point-wise, like what's the price range for, for those programs?

Great question. So it's really kind of in line with what your teaching was on pricing, around the $1,500 to $3,500 mark.

Okay.

Um, we are experimenting with some smaller programs actually. We have so many guys that are starting in the niche or whatever that I think that there's offerings that we could, that we could pull some of those people in at, especially with AI today and some of those different things that we could be doing that maybe we offer a a smaller than $1,000 a month package, but it's only because of AI now that we're able to do that. But yeah, that's kind of the real main price points is between $1,500 and $3,500 a month.

Okay. And then you said the Titan thing, which I think is something really cool. So that's where you're like targeting the biggest, baddest landscape companies in the area and you're like, hey, we wanna interview you, we wanna do it in person. Talk us through that and kind of, It looks like a lot of work, but it's also super cool when those videos drop.

Yeah, it's, it's been a Trojan horse for us because it's something— it's like really well-done pieces. Like, in our space, there's a lot of guys that do like shop tours, and those videos do a lot, but it's really just talking about like, oh, how's the operation? Like, oh, you have this equipment? Oh, that's cool. Like talk to me about how you roll your truck. And it's, it's not really the nitty-gritty of how the business runs. And so there's, there's brackets of our industry. A vast majority of the industry is kind of like below the $10 million mark, and then you really get into like the top 20% of businesses when you're talking like $10 million plus. And those guys have it figured out. And a lot of times those guys doing $10 million plus don't have social media presences because they're just running legitimate businesses. 90 to 100+ employees with those guys, and they just don't have time to be on social media, and they don't have big followings most of the time and that kind of stuff. Where a lot of times the small guys, they've got big social media presences, they're almost like social media guys that do lawn care and landscaping. And so those big guys don't get to tell the story. And so it's kind of the same thing in the niche and the agency space as it is kind of in the lawn and landscape space where Um, the guys that are smaller want to become bigger. Like, everybody wants to figure out, like, how do you get to that next level? And so we created, like, almost like a TV show that's on YouTube called Landscape Titans, and it features the titans of the industry. And so we go and prospect them, and we say, hey, like, we have this thing, you get a big plaque like this that says, you know, your landscape titan. Um, and we go— we— it's a whole production, costs us about $6,000 to, to produce end to end. We fly out there for 2 days and we have a full editing and production team on the back end, somewhat scripted out on the front end. And we then use those for marketing assets. And our best one's done like 32,000 views organically on YouTube and Um, so it's just other stuff that helps us kind of separate ourselves from other people in the industry and, uh, gives us stuff that we can send to our nurture list as like, hey, check this out, these guys are doing, you know, $15 million, $20 million, $10 million, go look at what they're doing. And that's the email, and it's just it's just an easier nurture sometimes where there's no ask, but it's like legitimate value. And then they go, they get to see you on camera. You're the one kind of delivering and facilitating that conversation. And so it helps.

Really cool. I love that. I love that initiative. You think about like the Dream 100 approach where you try and pick the biggest companies and you mail them something or you kind of like call them again and again. Like what a great way to say, hey, I'm gonna invest heavily in this, I'm gonna go see these people in person. And you're creating a media asset that whether that company ever becomes a client or not, just because you're side by side with the biggest, baddest companies in the industry, you've got that affinity. You know, the guys that wanna be at that level are like, wow, look at Luke, he's working with some of these big companies. He understands the inner workings of these types of organizations. Which makes you magnetically attractive, I think, to the kind of clients you want to serve.

It's really a Trojan horse in the sense that, you know, if you call them and say, hey, we've identified you as somebody that, you know, has the correct criteria to be on our show, we want you to become a Landscape Titan, and they're not going to say no to that, you know what I'm saying? We have had one or two people, and it's only because, like, we've we've been targeting some of the big names, and one of them does run a $32 million company, and he runs some YouTube stuff, but he's pretty private about how they run the business. And so he was like, you know, my team, I don't think it's going to want me to do this, or whatever. But almost everybody else has been, let's do it, this is awesome. You know, you send them the one video, the first video that we did, and they, they're, they're on board to go do more. So Yeah.

Not for everybody. I'd say that would be very hard for most of you to pull off, but like try and find your unique thing that you can do that will really make you stand out. I remember Luke, you know, in our conversations over the years, you're like, I'm in this landscaping space and there's so many big, you know, agencies already in it. How do I differentiate? And I think you did a really good job saying like, well, I'm gonna do the fundamentals, but I'm gonna also kind of figure out what my unique thing is. And you're really good with video and you really understand YouTube scripting, and you kind of deployed that as part of your, your strategy, which I believe has been a major accelerant. Whether you landed a lot of clients directly from that or not, you changed your position in the marketplace by going that deep.

I, I do want to say that this is one of those like, uh, off-road, let me go blaze my own trail scenarios, because we went so heavy into this before we did the fundamentals, right? It took us off track. And so, um, I thought this was going to be a secret hack, and it was, but I should have started with the fundamentals first. And it wasn't until I went back and that this became an asset after I started doing fundamentals. And so you— I just want to make sure that, like, if you're, if you're watching this and you're thinking about like, oh, let me go do this and this, maybe your wheels are turning. You have to do the fundamentals first, and then you can go do some of these other things that are like a little bit off the beaten path. This has been a huge, uh, a huge success for us in the sense that like nobody else in our niche from the marketing perspective has done anything close to this. And I have like, I think, an ability to create something that's almost like a show level of like production, but that doesn't replace the fundamentals. You still got to do the webinar, you still got to do the ads, you still got to do the outreach, you still got to show up to the events. Like, all of that stuff, you can't have a distraction. Like, this has to be a bolt-on, it cannot be a replacement. So that other stuff that is not maybe as sexy or as fun or as innovative you still have to do that first, and then you can go start on some of the other tasks. But those tasks, I would make sure that those are the highest on the priority list.

So good. A great, a great disclaimer, right? Like, this is a great idea, right? But if you just did this, you're gonna wind up spending a lot of time with not a lot to show for it. Uh, but when you, when you combine that with, with sound strategy, with like consistent activity, um, man, it really differentiates you in the marketplace. And what I'm not saying, if you're listening to this, if you like, don't go replicate this strategy, find like what you do that makes you different, that can make you stand out and lean into that. And I love the way you've done that, Luke. So talk to us about the fundamental. And then we kind of touched on this a little bit, but if you think about your marketing mix today, right now we're at $100,000+ in monthly recurring revenue. Where's the deal flow coming from? Like what does your pattern look like? What are the strategies that you've got in place from a positioning? I saw the book, I heard about the podcast, kind of walk us through that.

So I, I think the big one is, you know, running the ads, whether it's Google Ads, Facebook Ads, all that kind of stuff. Like, you have to spend and dedicate time to shooting content, getting things tested, running the ads. You know, if you think like your clients, like you're gonna go and shoot one ad and then put it out there and generate all the business from that one ad, you're wrong. Like, you have to go and shoot different angles and different things. Um, so that's been a big piece for us. Getting the video testimonials from clients has been a big piece of— for us. Uh, we're probably going to start doing more of a podcast interview style like this just to get the deeper conversation. But we— the clients that are killing it, we, we incentivize them to go do the photography and videography shoot, and then we set the— we set the truck up diagonal behind them with the logo, within them sitting in front of it. So it's a very clean, crisp, like, just money shot of, of them on the testimonial. So it's again very elevated, very high level. And so we take all of those and we run those as video testimonial ads. We send them out to the, to the, um, list. We create— try to create case studies around them and all those, those different things. So ads, email nurture sequences, all that kind of stuff. And we, we build such big lists from running all of the ads that we're trying to remember to make sure that we're constantly nurturing those people. Um, we've started a little bit of the coaching side of things, so we bring in some of the people that maybe are not ready to pull the trigger and say, hey, like, let's just do coaching for 60 days. Let me just work on this with you and get you some quick wins. And as soon as they get quick wins, we've converted almost every single one of those to clients.

Oh nice.

And so stuff like, hey, let me show you how to do some things on your own just so you can see that we're legit. It's much obviously discounted price and, uh, get those people in that way. Um, let's see what else. Uh, gift giving. So if there's people that are on the list that we know are great and maybe they've fallen off or they started to ghost us or something, we put them on a list and we just start sending them stuff constantly. Like they just, they get big boxes from us, they get air fresheners, they get all these different things. Um, what else? Obviously the trade shows. Trade shows are a huge piece. We've been doing trade shows ever since we niche down. So that is one of those things where it's like the consistency of showing up, being there, you know. You started then getting friends, you start taking people to dinner, you start getting groups, and then they start bringing people in, and then you know, them bringing people in, opens up your circle even bigger. Speaking on stages— last year I got to speak at the Texas Association of Irrigation Specialists, which is a mandatory state class, uh, that if you're an irrigator in the state of Texas, you have to have CU credits. So it's not the only one for the state, but it's the biggest one for the state. There was like 1,200 people in the room. It The, the video footage I got from that, people were saying was AI because it was so insane, like how many people were in this room. So that was huge for us, like just having that speaking experience. I probably don't need to bring a videographer again, uh, just because no other room is going to be that big.

Yeah, you're not going to top that, right?

Like, you know, every piece, every piece of footage possible to to get, to get locked in on that. So, um, anytime, you know, we've— this is probably the, the 15th or 20th speaking engagement that I've had, whether it's like 15 people in the room to, you know, 1,000+ people in the room. Every single time you're on stage is money, and you need the like 5 people in the room scenarios because that's what builds your confidence. And sometimes those are the better deals anyway because you get very one-on-one. What's your name? Okay, Joey. Hey Joey, what's your question? And then you're speaking, you know, it's just like way more specific than— yeah, speaking to 1,000+ people in a room is cool and great, we did land deals from that, but, uh, it's not as intimate necessarily as like 20-25 person, um, speaking engagements. But you need those to get you to that point, because if you're just going to go up and speak in front of 1,000 people, it can be a little daunting. And so, uh, speaking engagements have been, have been huge. The booth, getting the, getting the, the booth set up, locked in. The book, sending out the book to people. It's just like I said, like you just gotta like go through the checklist and see like, what am I doing, what am I not doing, how, what am I gonna do this quarter that I'm gonna plug in and get this rocking and rolling. And um, just picking off one of those things. And it's not one of those that's like completely— if I could say, you just got to do this one— it's plugging in all the different pieces because things ebb and flow. Like right now, you know, Facebook has been giving us some issues, and so we've been relying now on other things that have been bringing in the deal flow. And so every quarter it's just a little bit different, you know, whether it's referrals, whether it's, uh, people coming in from the book, they got the book and then they called us. It's just, you know, it's just different things that move the needle for us.

So good. I mean, to me, like what you described there is the growth system, like end to end, it sounds like you've got it fully deployed from the positioning assets, a really good book, right? A beautiful website filled with tons of case studies, speaking on stage, stage time is money time. You've got those authority pieces that when somebody were to die, like, Hey, who am I gonna choose for my landscape marketing? And they wind up on a call with you. It's like, this seems like the guy, like he seems like he's got it dialed in. And then you're doing the consistent daily activities, right? The Facebook ads, the content that's being loaded, the monthly anchor, which like I think you've added in with the podcasts and the webinars on a consistent basis to nurture the database, to force yourself to create the content, and then being live and in person at those events. Sounds like maybe even more than once a quarter, but on a consistent basis, being present in the industry. When you combine all of those activities on a consistent basis, and because you decided, I'm not gonna try and be all things to all people, I'm gonna let the legacy stuff die on the vine, I'm gonna focus on this, you could go that deep. And I think it's a beautiful explanation of how you're marketing yourself and how you've had the accelerated growth that you've had.

It's been a lot, you know, and the hard part for our niche, it might be this way for plumbing HVAC, But, you know, the, the spring-summer months are their money time. And so what does that mean? The down season is when all the trade shows are. And so it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's hard sometimes because it's like in the winter, between like maybe October and February, it's just every couple weeks on the road, on the road, on the road, on the road. But that's your time to get there because really, there's no trade shows really now between now and the fall. And so you have to kind of lock in and dial in in those times. And then we just know that like really between June and August is kind of our time to breathe, and it's a little bit slower because they're in the field doing stuff. They're not going to be necessarily making big changes in their marketing and stuff like that in the middle of the season and that kind of stuff. And so it's, it's us kind of getting dialed back in, taking a second to be like, okay, I can relax for half a second. Figure out what are the other things I'm going to plug in and that kind of stuff. But yeah, in seasonal type niches, you do have to think about like, when it's go time, it's go time, you know. You, you've got to lock in and be at every trade show that you can possibly be at, think about all that kind of stuff in those times, because otherwise you're not going to have those opportunities later on in the year. Um, so, so true.

Talk to us a little bit about like, do you have a trade show strategy? Like, what, like, what are you doing to get people to come see you, and how are you working the angle kind of in between, in between the, the sessions where they might be coming to your booth?

So one of the things that, uh, we've been experimenting with that's done better is like giving away tangible stuff that they want, whether it's like a local, uh, gift cards or something like that, or it's the soft drinks, or I, I think I, I don't remember who I got this from, so I apologize, but somebody was talking about in the group how they made like their booth the local convenience store. And they literally had like all of the stuff you could think about that they would want. And like they would just come there to get it. And either it was free or it was like heavily discounted. And so like, that's the kind of stuff that like I think about is like, hey, handing out the book and some of those different things like isn't enough by itself. Like, hey, hey, come here, let me hand you my book. They're, they're not necessarily like just going to come out of the aisle to do that. So like, think about what are the things that people want, and then how do you attach yourself to that and be kind of like the center of attention when it comes to those things. If you have the booth, um, and whatnot, if you have— if you get the speaking engagement, that's going to help because you can say speaking— like, you can put a big poster that says speaking time at this 'Come check us out, we're gonna hear— we're here to help you answer all of your questions on this topic,' or whatever. Um, that— those kind of things help because especially after you speak, then people know where to find you at the booth. If you don't have the booth, um, you know, a lot of the big trade shows for us, like Tony Ricketts has one of our biggest trade shows kind of like locked in. He's been at this same booth spot as long as I've been going there, uh, which is over like 6 years. He's in the main floor. There's 6,000 booths at this trade show. That's a hard one to break into because to get the money locations, you have to be there for a long time. You have to be willing to drop $10,000 to $20,000, right? Um, those kind of things. So, and those kind of like a presence, I will find another vendor that has a booth that I can like link up with and I can tell people like, hey, this is the booth that I'm going to be at, come check us out over here. Or I'm just going to be running around meeting up with other people that are good JVs for me at those kind of events. And so I focus more on the smaller, maybe state organization wide trade shows where I'll put up a booth and that kind of stuff versus doing the really large, like the main one that 100,000 people come into and all that kind of stuff. It's just so chaotic and crazy, and a lot of times those guys are there to just test the equipment, you know, they want to be on it. There's, I think, like 15 or 20 acres outside where people get to be in the machinery, actually driving the machinery. That's why people go to those. So I go there because I'm building relationships with other people with booths. Uh, you have to be there because it's the biggest one, obviously, so you gotta have content while you're there. And then I'm just going around shaking hands and meeting people, take— going, going to lunch. Like, you never want to go to lunch alone. Like, just find a group of guys or somebody or, or girls or whoever and just be like, hey, where are you? What are you guys doing for lunch? Like, can I join you? Like, and just try to expand this, the horizon and the circle. And just make the most out of trying to get as many relationships out of that as physically possible.

Super good. Lots of great insights and takeaways there. I love the, the idea that I don't feel like you have to conquer the biggest event. A lot of times the, the best deal flow, the, like, the best opportunities come from the smaller regional events, uh, and it's a lot less expensive, which can be a lot less of a drain. Um, amazing. And thanks for breaking down the kind of how you're landing clients and what the what the deal flow looks like. Let's shift gears now. What does the team look like from a delivery perspective at scale? Are you virtual? Are you in office? Talk to us about that.

We are 100% virtual and we're a mix between the states and overseas and stuff like that. And so, you know, that's been a huge piece for me to kind of really conquer and I think this was a huge roadblock for me as well when it comes to the team, the deliverables, all that stuff. I was so focused for so many years on trying to deliver the most world-class product possible. And the problem is, is that when you're sub a million dollars a year, you just don't have enough money to hire world-class people. And so like, looking back now your whole goal should be to grow as fast as possible. And even if you have a subpar product, you owe it to your organization, your clients, your team to grow as fast as possible. And that might sound, you know, counterintuitive of like, oh, I'm growing but I'm not delivering the best product. Well, as soon as you kind of get a little bit more cash into the business, you have more money to hire better people that can help you deliver better results. And so I was so stuck on like, this has got to be perfect before we really go after the masses. And like, before I really put myself out there, like, I have to be really confident in what we're delivering. And it wasn't until I just said, you know what, screw it, like, let's just sign clients and figure it out, that everything got better. And those— when you're growing and you're being successful and people see you winning and becoming successful, it attracts other people to your organization. And so the more you're marketing, you're also attracting like higher-level talent, and you can't afford those people at $40,000 a month. And the only way to get there is to continue to grow, continue to add clientele. Obviously you need to be delivering some type of results, but I like you know, my face and my— this is my face, my brand. I'm in the book, obviously, like all the kind of— I'm on all the ads. That means something to me. Like, I don't want to just, you know, churn and burn stuff. But you, you have to get to— you have to get over that to some extent. And the, the good news for me is, is that I'm not a coder, I'm not a website builder, I'm not an SEO specialist, strategist, all of that other stuff. So as much as that's kind of, you know, been harder for me to put all my trust into other people to get that stuff done, I'm not the person that's like, I have to go code this website because I'm the only one that can code this website this way. I've had to rely on 100% of other people in those different processes. So if you were watching this and you were the guy, you have to outsource that stuff to other people and, and, or you have to outsource the sales and the marketing, which, which which is another harder piece. Like, do you want somebody else to be the face and the brand of your business? I don't know. Um, but you've got to bring in the people that are going to help you with the things that you're not good at. And so that's probably been the biggest thing, is that I'm super pumped and excited about the team that we have. We have some incredible people, um, that have, you know, come on board and have been with us and have helped us grow. And so you know, it's, it's only getting better. But you have to kind of get to the revenue mark to be able to afford the kind of people that are going to take you to the next level. Like, our churn's been 99% over the last 2 quarters, and it's purely because of the people that we have on board right now.

And so, yeah, those retention is 99%, churn is 1%. Yeah, just, just sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to make sure that, that, yeah, it comes out the wrong wrong way, but yeah, the first time really in a few years that we've had back-to-back quarters with 99% retention is so good. It's solid.

That's awesome. And I love what you said there, like, you know, they're gonna put the cart before the horse sometimes, like, I'm gonna make this perfect, I gotta get it all dialed in, but if you don't have the financial resources, you'll never get there. So you've gotta take action, you know, obviously do great work for your clients while you're getting there, but like, as it grows, Now you've got more financial resources to invest to generate even better results for those clients. Let's talk about that 99% retention, 'cause that's huge, that's phenomenal. What are some of the things that you feel like you put in place that have helped you, you know, get to that level?

Really dialed in account management. I think everything comes down to the account manager, and you have to make sure that the account manager understands that this is their, like, sub-part of the business. Like, they're responsible for these guys getting success, uh, and so the account manager has to be in a scenario where their mindset is all the, like, proactively looking like, oh, their lead flow's down right now. Like, what— going to the team, the team that manages that specific piece, and saying, what else can we do here? What's wrong with this? Like, be be on the lookout for this for me because this is down. So you have to have people that actually care about the clientele and making sure— and yeah, making sure that they're getting the results and that they're seeing things not from like the aspect of just reporting. Uh, so if they're just gonna get on and say like, yeah, here's the numbers for this month and here's what's going on, and okay, cool, any questions? All right, cool, we'll see you next month. You're you're, you're going to turn those people out because there's going to be somebody else that maybe gets in their ear or whatever. So we're meeting with clients a lot, every week, every other week, but that's the sole responsibility of the account manager. So, um, I would say that's probably the biggest thing is the clients just know that we're on their side, that we have their back. We're proactively saying like, hey, this isn't working, like, what else can we do? Uh, let's run this other offer. What other things can you get us? Some more of this, can you get us some more of that? And we're the ones leading the conversation versus them coming to us and saying, this isn't working for me right now, like, what, what is going on? You have to beat them to the punch, and if you do, you're going to have their trust and their success, and it's going to buy you more time to kind of figure out, like, what else can we do here, what's not working, um, some of that stuff where if they're coming to you saying, hey, I'm slow, this isn't working for me, I've spent 6 months and, you know, I didn't get anything out of this. And that's the first conversation you're having with them. It's so hard to recover those. So you just have to be really proactive and a great account management team can make up for some of the lacks and the problems they might have on the deliverables and help buy you some time to get the team up to speed. Get the systems and processes in place. But yeah, I would say at this point we're pretty dialed in on both sides. And, and it helps when you know the numbers because people can feel— there's, there's been several times this quarter where somebody's gone, I feel like this or that, and you go, well, let's look at the numbers. Oh, well, we've done this. And they're like, oh, I didn't realize it was that good. Like, and you catch them on a bad day a lot of times. Something happens in their business that's not related to you. They're having problems. They just fired their head person, whatever it is. Like, whatever. They just got stiffed like $30,000. Now they're in a bad crappy week, or the client, or the guys wrecked a truck, or whatever. And then, then you get, you know, or they get a bill, they get your, your credit card hit on their account, and they're just like, what am I even paying these guys for? And so if you know the numbers and you have the relationships and you can go through all that kind of stuff, they're like, oh yeah, this is working. Like, and even if it's not, um, they know these guys have my back. It buys you the time for them to get rocking and rolling, and then once they're rocking and rolling, it's kind of game over.

So good. So many great insights there. It sounds like proactivity getting a great account management structure in place, focusing on the outcomes for those clients, and really just leaning into that, kind of being on the front end, acknowledging where you've dropped the ball, acknowledging where the numbers aren't where they need to be, and saying, look, we see it and we're changing it. And when you're on top of the ball, they're more likely to stick around, and that's really had an impact on your retention.

Yeah, 100%. You can't be— I was sold the agency model of set it and forget it. Like, people will just pay you to run agency services, and you know, they're not going to hit you up that much. It's super easy. Like, this— I was sold this whole bill of goods when it comes to what this business is. And I'll tell you what, like, the agency space is probably the hardest business that I've ever run. Like, you think about all the moving parts in the landscape industry and the trucks and the maintenance and the guys and the plants and the grass and all this other stuff that's going on. Like running the agency world and the being in the agency space, this is by far the hardest business that I've ever had to try to grow and, and, and whatnot. It's been super fulfilling and it's, it's been super solid, but it's not what people make it out to be. This, you know, toes in the sand, sit on the beach, mailbox money, right? There's so many problems, you know, like there's so many different things that we've had to help clients solve, whether it's like the older generation, they couldn't figure out their email, they couldn't figure out all these different things, you know, and you're, you're over here now as their IT specialist. But it's all those little things that you're able to help them figure out and fix and solve and move the business forward for them that, that builds those relationships and makes you more sticky than the guy that's going to slide in the DMs and say, hey, I can get you 60 leads this month, or it's free. Or whatever, and they won't even entertain that stuff because, you know, it's— what's the saying that's like, nobody, uh, cares about what you know until they know about what you— how much you care, or something like that? Yeah, it's just those situations where, you know, if somebody really feels like you're devoted to them and, and committed to their success and their growth, they're going to give you time and, you know, make sure that they at least give you an opportunity to turn things around. So that's the biggest thing. I would just say build the relationships with the clients. There's so many times that I've seen or I've had conversations with people where they're like, I don't wanna have the talk, I don't wanna meet with the client anymore, I don't wanna do this or that. And it's like, I was on the opposite end of that, of like where my team was like, my account managers were like, Luke, you gotta stop. Like communicating with these guys. Like, let us do our job. And, and that's been, that's been good. But you do need to slide in there every once in a while as the owner. It makes a big difference to just slide in and just say, hey, I'm just sending you a quick message, just checking in on you. You doing okay? Everything good? Um, and then if they send a request about something, you three-way text it into the account manager, or you say, please send this to the account manager. They're going to be able to do this task better than I am, but I'm just here to make sure that you're good, that you're taken care of. And that stuff goes a long way. Um, so, you know, still have that, that, that one touch sometimes, like once a month, once a quarter, once a year. Get something to them, just say, hey, I'm thinking about you, just making sure you're good. And if something isn't good, they're gonna tell you. Like, I've had that happen a couple of times in the last year where I reached out to somebody and they might have churned out if I didn't hit them up because they didn't want to say— they couldn't say it to the account manager. They didn't really have a place or a way to say it to me necessarily. And so it wasn't until I hit them up and they said, well, I am struggling with this. And that gave us the ability to go and change that piece or correct that. And it wasn't— they feel more comfortable speaking owner to owner on some of those different things. So if you just make that quick touchpoint of saying like, hey, You good? Everything good? Yeah, Taylor's really awesome, isn't she? Like, she's crushing it. All those different things. Kate's really awesome, she's crushing it. Great, all good. Or, oh, you have this thing, let me take care of this for you, and then you get right on it. They're, they're never gonna leave.

So good, man. Lots of great takeaways and insights on the, on the retention side. Uh, well, well, Luke, congratulations again on, on the growth. And I really believe what you said. I think this is just a starting point for you and there's like massive continued momentum ahead of you. Thanks for sharing kind of how you've grown the agency, how you broke through in a lot of different areas, some of the key things you're doing to market and retain your clients. If you had one last piece of wisdom to share with that agency owner that's listening, what would it be?

Anything else that you're doing, just cut it off. Like you have to, be 100% dialed into one thing, or you're a slave to many masters. And the more you think about, oh, I have this business over here, I have that business over there, it's just a distraction. Whether it's Legacy Agency stuff, whether it's the landscape business you're running on the side, whether it's the whatever you're doing, like, whatever those things are that are not what you're doing to grow the agency, get rid of it. Like, it's short-term money preventing you from long-term success, and you just need to be committed. Put your head down, go all in on the fundamentals. Nothing's, you know, beneath you. You need to just go back to square one and say, like, from square one to— from step 1 to 100, where am I at? What have I not plugged in? Just get those things dialed in and move forward. And, uh, give the niche enough time. Like, don't, don't, don't say, hey, I'm gonna go in on this thing, it goes 3 months and you haven't— you're not where you want to be, and then you pull the trigger and you move into something else. Like, everything takes time. You underestimate what you can do in, uh, a year, but you, you overestimate what you can do in a year, but you underestimate what you can do in 10. That's what we're at. Like, we're, we're at that stage here. And so Those would be the biggest things that I would say. It's like just go 100% in on the niche, the revenue-generating activities in your business, and get rid of everything else. Put the blinders on.

So good. Luke, thanks again for coming on and sharing from your abundance and kind of what you've learned. If somebody did want to connect with you further, what would be the best way?

Yeah, you can send me an email, Luke@landscapeseo.com. You can find us all on all the social media platforms. Um, some of it's under The Green Dream, which is the book and the podcast. Some of it's under Landscape SEO. So you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, all that kind of stuff.

So, so good. Be sure to look him up. Be sure to subscribe to his channel so he grows his following. And, um, send him a shout out, right? Like, thank him for, for sharing today. And for, you know, he doesn't gain anything from this other than just his abundance of saying, hey, I want to share what's work for me so I can help somebody else out. So, um, thanks so much for listening, everybody. I hope you got value. If you've got follow-up questions or thoughts, drop them into the comments wherever you're watching or listening, and we'll do our best to answer those for you. And look forward to seeing you on a future episode of the Seven Figure Agency Podcast. Thanks, everybody.