All Bi Myself: Jen Winston on Bisexuality

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One of my friends asked me if writing my book, like if the responses I had gotten made me think that everyone was bisexual. But it's actually made think the opposite. It's made me think it's a very unique experience to be bisexual. And if you think you're bisexual, you probably are. Like, you might not be, but that's what I usually tell people is like if you're like, am I bi? Am I not bi? Like that's a bisexual thing to do.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sexual. So question for you. How do you know if you're bisexual? Well, in honor of Bisexuality Visibility Day, author Jen Winston helps me answer just that. In her book, Notes from a Bisexual who Wants Too Much, Jen reveals how she came to terms with her bisexuality in a world that loves to slap stereotypes on it. You're greedy, you're slutty, and constantly confused whether you're a vulva owner in a heterosexual partnership who wants to explore, explore same sex fantasies or a penis owner who has recently come out as gay but still has thoughts about the opposite sex. We answer those questions and more in this episode, and Jen helps us all understand why sexuality is about so much more than who you're sleeping with. All right, intentions with Emily. For each episode, join me in setting an intention for the show. So right now you chose to listen to this show. What do you want to get out of this episode? How will this episode help you? Who? My intention is to help you open up your mind to sexuality and relationship preferences. Whether you're gay, straight, bisexual, polyamorous, monogamous, or somewhere in between. Our sexuality is a journey that deserves compassion and patience. I'm very excited, you guys, because you're all invited. I'm doing a live event in Los Angeles with my good friend Dr. Jennifer Freed. She's a psychological astrologer. You've probably heard the episodes I've done with her and it's at Dynasty Typewriter on free Friday, October 7th at 6pm we'll be talking about her new book, A Map to youo Soul. We'll be talking about how to really nurture yourself and just live your potential with this really accessible guide in her new book. And we talk about the elements like fire, earth, air and water. We talk about astrology. And Jen is goop's resident psychological astrologer. She's fantastic. I can't wait to see you there. We will put a ticket link in the show notes, so I hope to see you all there. If you want to ask me a question, leave me your questions or Message me at sexwithemily.com askemily or call my hotline 559-talk-SEX or 559-825-5739. Just include your name, your age, where you live and how you listen to the show. And it's totally cool to change your name or choose to remain anonymous. All right everyone, enjoy this episode.

Jen Winston, she her they them is a writer and bisexual whose work focuses on dating, queerness and the millennial condition. They are the author of the critically acclaimed book Greedy Notes from a Bisexual who Wants Too Much. Which paper mag wrote that Jen's debut is at once relatable, laugh out loud, funny and refreshingly illuminating. Buzzfeed named Greedy a best LGBTQ book of 2021. Jen newly lives in Los Angele partner dogs and iPhone. You can follow Jen on Twitter, Instagram and alas, TikTok enerous with a Jen Winston. Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for having me this is great.

So great. We have so many people who need your help. Today we're going to talk about a big topic that you are the expert in. We're talking about bisexuality.

Yes. It's my favorite topic, and it's something that people do not talk about very much. And I. Growing up, I needed people to talk about it for me to be able to come out as bi. And so I'm trying to talk about it as much as I can.

People really don't, I suppose. I always think people don't talk about anything when it comes to sex, but bisexuality is particularly marginalized.

Well, I think there's, like, so many reasons for that. I mean, they call it bi erasure. Everyone's probably heard that term.

Bi erasure.

Bi erasure.

I know that everyone's heard that. Yeah.

Oh, well. And there's also bi invisibility, which is why this is bi visibility Week. The reason that those, like, holidays, you know, all these, like, visibility days, they feel like just like Instagram holidays or whatever, which they, like, sort of are. It's so important for bi people to, like, be out and name ourselves as bi because the label bisexual is, like, so often erased. One thing that I like to talk about is in the media, there are so many, like, depictions of fluid sexuality. Those exist, which is great. There's not enough, but, like, there's some. But a lot of times those aren't named as bisexual, and that makes it seem like bisexuality is a behavior rather than an identity. And in my case, I was, like, desperate to have queer sex, and I, like, couldn't make it happen for myself for a while, so I just thought I wasn't queer because I, like, couldn't close the deal. And it's really interesting how, like, that action ends up helping you define yourself for worse. I guess in this case, you're right.

There aren't a lot of depictions of it. We have a lot of people who also have questions about this all the time. Like, where do I start? How do I come out? How do I know if I'm bisexual? So what are some of the things that you're helping people break down? Like, what would you say is, like, the top question you get asked about bisexuality?

When I said I was writing a book on bisexuality, a lot of people were like, oh, that's cool. But isn't everyone bisexual? Like, what are you gonna say? The first time someone said that to me, I was like, that doesn't feel good. And I don't know why. And then I Thought about it and. And I realize it's because it implies that bisexuality is not a big deal or it's not something worth talking about. It's not an identity worth, like, living out loud, for lack of a better cliche. That would be. The first thing I would say is, like, not everyone is bisexual. In fact, one of my friends asked me if writing my book, like, if the responses I had gotten made me think that everyone was bisexual, but it's actually made me think the opposite. It's made me think it's a very unique experience. Experience to be bisexual. And if you think you're bisexual, you probably are. Like, you might not be, but that's what I usually tell people is like, if you're like, am I bi? Am I not bi? Like, that's a bisexual thing to do.

Why do you think the confusion exists where people think that everyone's bi but they're not? Like, does that come from just that sexuality is on a spectrum, like the whole Kinsey scale, and then that gets confusing. What do you think that comes from?

Yeah, I think it's partially, like, due to that fluidity, but, like, technically, if you're not like, a one or a six on the Kinsey scale, like, you're somewhere in the middle, like, you may not be bi. You may be like, pan or. Or queer. I personally think of the definitions of bisexuality and pansexuality is very similar. My bisexuality includes all genders, and I am attracted to all genders.

How is it different than pansexuality then?

It's really, like, the same. It's really the same. And pansexuality sort of emerged out of, like, the assumption that bisexuality was not gender inclusive.

And in some, because it is binary and sexual.

Yeah, it has the bi, but a lot of. There are a lot of different bi. Like, not to get, like, fully into queer theory, but there's like, a lot of bi scholars who will say that the bi and bisexuality refers to, like, the straight and gay communities that you find yourself between. Or there are all these other binaries that it, like, plays off of. But my definition of bisexuality is that it's like somewhere in the liminal space between two options that weren't options I necessarily created myself. You know, they were just things that were given to me. So it's about, like, finding stability in that state of flux, is what I say.

Jen, I feel like we could talk about this all day, but I want to make sure we answer some of these voicemails and I know your knowledge is going to be a huge help to our listeners. This is from Bianca in Orlando.

Hi, Dr. Emily. My name is Bianca. I am 26 years old. I live in Orlando, Florida, and I am trying to figure out if I may like women. So I feel a little bit curious, and my partner is completely fine with it. My approach has been to get a few applications that I'm really not familiar with because I've been with my partner for seven years. My overall concern is, how do I start? Do I just make my move with someone? I even considered having my current partner meet her. I guess my thought is, where do I start and how do I feel? I'm very attracted to women, and I didn't know I would be, which is something that is new to me this year. And just a little backstory. I've been with my partner for seven years, so it's a little bit shocking, but it's also fun because maybe I will experiment. I feel like my partner needs some assistance with orals, and perhaps that might be why I'm leaning towards being vicarious, because perhaps they might be able to pleasure me in a way that he doesn't know how to. And I shared my podcast, at least your channel, with him, and does he really listen to everything that I sent him? Probably not, because some of them are long, but, hey, I do because I enjoy it, and it's. Your podcast is very educational, and of course I want to receive pleasure and give pleasure, so that's where I'm at. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Have a great rest of your evening.

All right, that is bianca. Okay? She's 26 years old, so this is interesting. So she's been with a partner. I'm gonna assume that she's with a penis owner because she just says my partner. My partner. So I'm gonna assume that that's.

She's he.

She said he. She did. She's he. Okay, but where do you start with? I think a lot of you are like, I think I'm bisexual, but I don't know. Do I have to label myself before I have sex? Do I have to sex and then label myself? Does the label matter? What would you say here? How can we help her?

That is a really good question, and I think Bianca's question is, like, a huge one. One time I posted, like, an Instagram story question asking for bisexual women who were in relationships that presented as straight to, like, tell me about their experience, and I got, like, so many, like, more responses than I've ever gotten. To something like that. Like, so many people are in that situation and don't know how to move forward. So the first thing I would say is, like, Bianca is not alone at all. Second, I would say, like, the label in question is a big one. I think a lot of times people don't if it's worth it to come out, Especially if you don't even want to have sex with someone of the same gender or another gender. If you don't want to do that, but you still feel like you're bisexual. Like, there's still a reason that you might want to come out, to just, like, be your full self. And that's what I found, was that it was, like, it was so much more amazing to come out as bi than I thought it would be. Because I was like, this is not a big deal. It doesn't matter. It's really just, like, I like to have threesomes. That's what I'm telling my coworkers now. I guess, like, that's what I thought, but it really just helped me just feel like I could be my true self in so many situations. And there's another thing that happens with bisexuality, where people often think that because you're bi, you want an open relationship. Like, if you're a woman in a relationship with a man and you say that you're bi, the assumption might be that you want to go hook up with someone, but maybe you don't. Like, maybe you just want to be yourself. So that's, like, why the overarching conversation really matters.

So if you're a woman in a relationship with a man and you say you're bi, you're like, okay, well, then I guess I could assume that you're open. I could just assume that right now you've decided to be with this person to be with a man and maybe give up. Like, you can still be bisexual, but you're not going to act on it because you're not an open relationship. But that's okay, too. Like, yeah, you could still. Right?

So there's this, like, interesting thing because, like, anytime you're in a monogamous relationship, you're, like, theoretically giving something up. Like, it's not exclusive to bisexuality. And there's this thing that happens with bisexuality where it becomes, like, the scapegoat for all of these truths in the world. For example, greedy being greedy. That's the title of my book. Because that's a bisexual stereotype. But it's a stereotype that's like. It's Only bad if you think being promiscuous is bad. So it's like actually there's this deeper truth about the way we see sexual that is reflected in the way we stigmatize bisexuality.

Yeah. So too. So greedy is your book Notes from a Bisexual who Wants Too Much. Why is it greedy? Because you gotta have it all.

Yeah.

I mean, it's often said that bisexuals are just greedy. It's like. And a lot of times I love these people. Yeah, I know, I know. It's also like, what's wrong with that? Like, I think that's the bigger thing. The reason that I wrote my book is because a lot of times you see the bi community, which is not much of a community, which is a whole other thing. There aren't like a lot of bi like gatherings for bi people because of like everything we've talked about. Like, it's not, we're not like very connected. Although I like love bi people.

You probably are though. I feel like the priestess perhaps of the bi world.

Yes. If you're looking for bi friends, you can bi friends.

Check out Jen. She is your bi friend. I'm here. There isn't a community. So then where do you start then? Like, where would Bianca. Cause she's like, I just came to this realization and I think like, I mean what I would say is like, surround yourself with some like minded voices, find people on social media that to follow.

But I also had a really hard time like being able to have my first queer sexual experience because I was so in my head about it and I was like, I don't deserve to be here. I had like so much imposter syndrome.

How did you get into that experience? Like, how do you start? Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, how did you just follow yourself?

I was like so blunt. I like went up to.

I love this.

I like went up to someone at a club and was like, I really need to like have queer sex. Like, are you interested? And the person was like, yes. And that was my first time. And the other was, was like a friend.

So you just went up to somebody. So you were bold. Like, you just were like, I mean, I would have sex.

Yeah. Because I thought that it would help me understand who I was. And I think maybe that's something Bianca is also dealing with is like, if you can figure this thing out, then it might help you understand other parts of your marriage or your relationship. Yeah. I think the first thing I would say is like talk to your partner. And if you feel like it's safe to come out to them and let them know that this is something you're interested in. But also just part of who you are. That's a really important part of the coming out process, is to say that it's more than just a sexual desire. It's like, who you are. And also maybe it's not.

I think she said she downloaded the apps and she tried with that. So is there an app that you recommend to people, like, to kind of start playing?

I mean, on all of them, you can, like, add your preferences. I found it was really difficult to have, like, casual sex with women because I got in my own head about, like, how women deserve to be treated. And I was like, I can't, like, give a woman what she needs, so I can't be here.

Well, I have a question, though. This is the question that everyone wants to know right now, I'm sure, but. So you had your first queer experience with someone. I mean, with a woman. Vulva. Okay, so how did you know what to do? Vulva. I mean, don't. Because you have one. Like, you have a vagina. I mean, I know I've had. I've dabbled, so I've had my experiences. And it was like, I'm trying to think. So how I would answer that is like, well, you kind of know your way. You're like, I have this. I've worked this. But still, how did you feel in your. In your experience?

Oh, my God. I was like, so out of my element. There's a chapter in my book about how the way I masturbate is weird because I, like, lay on my stomach, which is not weird. I've learned.

No. Common.

Common, yes. But I always was very insecure about it because I was like, this isn't a hot way to masturbate. Like, boo hoo. But I, because of that, I only know how to, like, work a specific type of vulva or like, a specific type of clitoris location. I was just very upfront about not knowing what I was doing. A lot of people, like, enjoy shepherding you, I think ultimately, and this is something my current partner, when we first started hooking up, I was like, I don't really know what I'm doing. And they were like, it's the same. All sex is the same. And I thought that was really, really interesting because it helped me just kind of take all this gender and sexuality stuff out of it that I'd been so freaking out about over for like, my whole life and just like, live in the moment and Communicate and, like, pleasure each other. And so, yeah, it kind of is the same. Like, you.

You. You might kiss. You might. It's arousal, getting attracted. The energy builds. You don't go right to the genitals. You should never do that anyway. Which I always say, build up and then explore.

Yeah.

Play what? Pay attention.

Yeah. Well, that's actually something that I really love about queer sex that I have learned is that, like. And I was just reading this thing about story structure and, like, plot and how it follows the arc of a. I say, I was reading this thing. I was watching a TikTok. That's like, what you say now, right? But yeah, so watching a TikTok about story structure, and it was like, traditional plot follows the arc of the male orgasm. It builds and then it tapers off. But then there's this push toward, like, feminine story structure that's more like. There's a peak here and, like, another peak here and a bigger peak here. And it's. You kind of have to invent it. And that's what I, like, really love about my sex life now is, like, it feels like there's not, like, a script we follow and then we roll over and go to bed. It's like. And you can have this, like, with any combination of genitals. I think queer sex is not exclusive to, like, two people with the same genitalia. Like, it's more of a, like, queering the idea of sex. And, like, how can you really focus on what feels right?

The goal is not even orgasm. It's, like, stop and start and pleasure. It's not linear. It's okay if you both get to rouse and then, like, make a sandwich, come back to sex. Maybe not come back later. Like, love a sandwich. To me, that's. I just got really hungry. And then you come back to it. So very helpful. Thanks, Jen. Okay, should we get into another call here?

Hi, Emily. My name is Katerina.

I'm from Australia.

I'm 32 years old, and I would.

Consider myself a pansexual.

Now, my question is, I'm in a primary relationship with a man, but I'm also dating a woman. There is an end date to that, though, because she will be living soon. But I guess my question is I have a way deeper connection and intimate, and the sex is a lot better with the female. So sometimes I feel disconnected in my main relationship with the man and feel like he doesn't understand that. I'm very transparent with both of them. I guess you could say polyamorous. Yeah. So I Guess how do I navigate that space and communicate with better and I guess reassure all partners, especially around things like jealousy. Yeah, it's a complex one, but I mean I'm happy and I'm enjoying.

Would be awesome to talk to you more about it. Thank you.

So she's a deeper connection now to the woman, to the female, and then feels disconnected from the man. First of all, her partner. I think she probably has learned a lot. How do you bring that into the relationship with the man? Because she probably learned stuff here. But they're open, so polyamorous. And then the other thing is about jealousy. So there's kind of like a two part question here about how do you navigate jealousy? But then like, I don't know, I could see that happening where you just kind of. There's like a depth of being seen with somebody, you know, they know whatever. They just fell into a beautiful sexual experience. And then now she's back with her dude. Like, what do I do? What do I do now? Yeah. Anything relatable there for you?

I mean, I'm going to try to focus on the parts that are. I'm like qualified because I don't know that I know how to navigate like jealousy in a. I think that's important though because a lot of times people will think that bisexuality is like, like, you know, that those two things go hand in hand. But like, as we talked about earlier, they can be really. Or like sexual fluidity and being polyamorous are like two very different things. But I would ask Katarina if her male partner knows that's how she identifies. Even if he knows that she's in a relationship with, with a woman, he might not know like that part of her, her sexuality and like what that means to her. And that could be a really good entry point to that conversation about like to bring in some of that intimacy.

To say like, this is how I'm identifying now. Like this is part of who I am. It's not just like a. Yeah.

And like, like how. When did you know? You know, like there are all those things that, when you have a, like.

Queer. Like when you have like a queer romance. I guess like in this scenario it's sort of like those, those questions are like, there's a subtext there that like, you know, it's like they understand parts of you that other people might not because of that and because you have that shared like experience of hiding something, I guess from society. And so to be able to bring your primary partner into the fold on that is like a really beautiful thing to do. I love how you said to. To bring the intimacy from that relationship to this and.

Yeah, yeah. To kind of share what. What it was. So there isn't maybe some more jealousy. And just saying, like, this is what I've learned and I want to share with you. Because if they're already. Polyamorous means that she says she's transparent with both of them. And I guess you could say I'm polyamorous, which means that they. She would have a primary partner and have other partners. So there's a lot of different ways people date as poly now, too. I think it would just be, like, sharing in a way that's like, I want to share with you. Like, what I would say is, like, this is this beautiful experience I had that felt intense and wonderful, and I would love to, like, share with you some of the experiences we had and kind of like, show you what that is, because I'd love for us to have some of that depth. And then the jealousy thing is, you know, I think that that's. Wow. I mean, that's really just about having, like, understanding that jealousy is not like a fixed state or, like, you. Your jealousy, or you're not. It's something that people realize you have to. You can work through jealousy. It's not a place that you have to live. I think we're told, like, if you're jealous, we have to act on it, and it's horrible. But there is also some depth that comes from understanding going, like, a layer deeper. Like, what is my jealousy? Okay, I'm afraid my part is going to leave me. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough. I'm afraid that. And then if you can really sit there with those emotions with a trusting partner and kind of get into it. Like, the couples that I know that have been able to transcend the jealousy, although it never completely goes away, they're the ones who really got there. Like, you know, babe, when you leave or when you're on a date with someone else, like, let's say you're poly, and then I don't hear from you for a few hours. Hours. I started to get to get jealous and feel like you're having a really great time. So can you make a boundary or rule that you text me three hours in, like, set an alarm on your phone that I need to hear from you? Or you start to ask for what you want to assuage your. Your fears? I suppose in the jealous. It's a lot of work. It's from couples who can kind of communicate. Or maybe if you feel like I don't want to hear everything after your date. This is where couples again set boundaries. Like, so you're like, maybe the partner comes home. Like, I had amazing sex with this person. Like, oh, I don't want to hear that. That makes me feel jealous. So I think it's to bring jealousy into the fold and like kind of talk about it and break it apart and put it back together. That's what I recommend, people, because I've seen couples transcend that truly.

I have a book recommendation that's not even my own book. It's called Open by Rachel Krantz. Yeah, maybe you've talked about it, read it. It's a memoir about an open relationship and it sort of through her own story, talks about like the importance of that communication and what happens when it's not there.

Good, that's a great recommendation. After the break, author Jen Winston and I will answer more of your questions about bisexuality. So don't go anywhere.

Let's get into Zach.

Yeah, I think that's a good one.

Hi, my name is Zach and I am a 21 year old gay male from Nebraska. Recently I've been having confusing thoughts about my sexuality. Basically I came out in October of last year and for the most part I've been happy about my change. Even though I had to break up with my ex of four and a half years. These past few months I've been doing fantastic. I started to be more open to my, like, to my feminine side. I've really been accepted like into like the community itself. But recently I've been having these weird thoughts about women as well. Basically it's almost as if my mind is like trying to force the connection like with women and sex. Even though I have no desire whatsoever to sleep with or be in a romantic relationship with a woman. But the thing is, when I have these thoughts, I try to push them away as much as possible, but they just continue to build in my head and it doesn't go away until like I'm actually try to be open to the idea of me being bisexual. But the thing is, whenever I do start to be open to the idea, the thoughts just automatically go away. Some of that my mind is afraid that I am bi, even though if I was, I'm. I would be completely okay with that. But the thing is that just doesn't feel right either.

So Zach is still working it out. The interesting thing there is that we all think like our sexuality is just set. I think at Any time, at any age, at any place in your life, it can sort of move along a spectrum, or you could. Sometimes you might be attracted to. Or it changes. I guess it evolves. It can evolve over time. And to be open to that. And I think Zach's experiencing it all at once now and at 21, and I think that's okay. So I kind of want to normalize his process that he's articulating here, that it's okay. There's not, like, you put, like, your stake in the ground. You're like, I am bi. I am gay. Like, it's okay. I wish we didn't have any of these labels, because I see it as, like, who are you attracted to now? What turns you on today? We don't know what it could be tomorrow, because that's the way our mind works. So the one thing I want to say here is that there's a lot going on here because there's the conditioning, right? We are all, I guess, responsive to whatever our earliest memories are of arousal. Like, whatever it was, whether it was the porn you watch, what we were attracted to was maybe we were attracted to, like, a teacher in third grade, and that's what we think about, or that's where we first started to shape it. But in places where we might even remember, there are. There are these little kernels of sexual knowledge and wisdom and attraction that builds up. So he might be having just some, like, throwbacks to, like, early conditioning of watching porn or of being forced to maybe be attracted to women, because that's what he thought was the right thing. So I just. I feel like I want him to just release all of it. And I think he's starting to. When he says, like, oh, I'm. I think I. When I let go of it, that it doesn't really have as much weight. So I think it just kind of. His mind and his body sort of have to kind of connect here on it. But what would you have to say to this sort of fluctuating of thoughts? Am I. Am I not. You probably can speak to this. Yes.

I mean, now I'm thinking about my earliest sexual. I'm thinking about the movie Swim Fan. Do you remember that movie? It was so terrible.

Tell me.

I mean, no, it was. There was just, like, a scene. Eliza Dushku was in it. And I don't remember. I don't remember the guy's name, but they just had, like, a. That's, like, when you talk about early arousal memories, that pops into my head. Yeah, well, that's Good. But there we are.

Important to, like, go into that seriously at another time.

But, yeah, it's very funny. But, yeah, I totally agree. I think, like, labels, they get a bad rap, and for good reason sometimes, because they can be, like. It can be really hard to feel like you deserve it. That's part of why I didn't come out as bi. Cause I was like, I'm not queer enough to deserve this label when that's not a thing. And that's, like, something I'm imposing. Because at the end of the day, the label is just for you and to help you find out, like, more about yourself and connect with other people who also connect with that label. Which is why earlier I was like, whatever label you use is right for you, because at the end of the day, it's for you. It's not for anyone else. And so I think there's a little bit of biphobia at play, which is not to, like, put you up, Zach, because everybody has a lot of internalized biphobia. But I think there's some hesitancy to being bi. And like I was saying earlier, it's not like you have to want to act on it. You can be a man and only have sex with men and be bisexual. Like, you never have to prove your bisexuality with a sexual experience. And so I guess I would say, what's the problem with identifying as bi other than maybe, like, all the stigmas that we have about being bi? And I totally agree with you. Like, there's. For me, it was really hard to tell, like, if I liked having threesomes a lot. Like, that was my entry point. Humble brag. And I. Yeah, so I was having a lot of threesomes, and I wasn't sure if I was being bisexual, like, if I was bisexual for myself or if I was doing it because I knew men like to watch it. And I think maybe something similar is happening here where it's like, you're not sure if you're attracted to women because that's what they society tells you to do or because you actually are. I think a lot of times there is a little bit of ourselves in those things. So I would just encourage a little bit of unlearning around bisexuality, like, taking a look in the mirror and seeing why it is that this label is so scary. And then, yeah, just, like, looking back and assessing. Because you don't ever have to, like, you don't ever have to sleep with a woman if you're bi. You don't have to do that.

That's a really good point, because it sounds like what you might be saying there is that he's having fantasies about women, like, they're still coming into his consciousness. Which brings me to another thing that people who worry. People worry if they're gay. Like, oh, I'm a straight man, but I watch gay porn. Or vice versa from women all the time. Like, I'm a straight woman, but I watch lesbian porn, as they say. It's like, I was like, great, good. As long as you know what turns you on, that's awesome. But I think there's another layer of people. Like, what does it mean? Does it mean I need to act on it? So I would ask you, how do you know? Like, how. How would you tell people that? To know if just something to keep in their head as a fantasy, or if they're like, I should dabble? Is it when the urge is just too much? Because I think I'd be happy. Many would just be happy just watching the porn, but other people, I mean.

I needed to know for myself. So I think maybe that's like, the filter is, like, if you actually want.

To do it if you're bi, you probably are.

Yeah, I mean, I. I. Yeah, I kind of do. Like, stand by that. Because if you're stressed about whether or not you're bi, that's a very bisexual thing to do. Like, that's. Bi culture is stressing about whether or not you're bi enough.

Yeah. Wait, that makes so much sense, because I think this is. I think you're gonna help so many people by saying this, because let me just put this out there. That people. I can never tell, sometimes by their emails or their calls, because I'm not sitting with them. I don't know. But when people ask me that, I'm wondering. Usually I'm like, well, if you're just watching porn, like, no, what is the labels matter? Like. Cause I always take it that way. Like, they're wondering, they're worried, or whatever, you're fine. But then I'm thinking, if they take the trouble to sit down and write me an email.

Maybe they're on the. Like, at that point where they're like, it's not just porn. I'm actually thinking about it so much that I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna call into your show, I'm gonna write you a note that maybe they are at the place where they're, like, having that bi angst.

Yeah.

Bionx. Is that the angst?

My next book, right?

Yeah. But I'm just wondering. I just had this thought where I'm like, oh, maybe if they are asking. But then again, maybe that is it for some of the listeners. But in general, if you're just watching, it doesn't have to mean anything.

I think that's a really good point. Like, I mean, it's a good thing for Zach to ask is, like, why is this so, like, something that I'm thinking about so much that I wanted to write about it? And I really do think bisexuality is very scary to people. There's a trope called murderous bisexuals. If you like Jennifer's body, she's a murderous bisexual. She's the best one, in my opinion. Lady Gaga in American Horror Story. Kevin Spacey in House of Cards. I can't remember the character's name, but all of those people are, like, murderous bisexual characters. It's a thing. And it's like on tvtrops.com to say, my sword.

Murderous bisexual.

Yeah.

Sounds like a good Halloween costume.

Oh, actually, maybe I'll be that. Last year, I was the bisexual IKEA couch. If you seen that.

No, what's the bisexual. Can we just take a little bisexual video?

It was. Yeah, this year I'm going to be a murderous bisexual. It was like a couch that was designed, like, IKEA did a Pride partnership with some designers, and it was a couch that was. It was the bisexual couch. And it looked like they had a gay one, they had a lesbian one, and they had the bisexual one. And it was like the colors of the bi flag, which are pink, purple, and blue, which is also very binary and is, like, something I don't love.

Change that flag.

Yeah. It had these hands on it, and the hands were, like, scary to people. And it was just. It was like a Twitter moment and. But yeah.

Oh, my God. Okay, wait, so wait, what were we saying before that? Murderous bisexual.

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so much like. I mean, obviously villains. Being queer coded is, like, a huge thing. Like, there's so many.

It is. I see it.

Yeah. And there's so many Disney villains that are queer coded. People talk about it in the queer community all the time because it actually has, like, bearing on our lives because it's part of the way people, like, see queer people as, like, you know, taking up space and being boisterous and wreaking havoc and, like, causing drama. It makes sense that the label bisexual is scary. Like, that's what you've been told to think. So that's probably another layer of conditioning.

It's good. It's Very enlightening. I think this is awesome for everybody listening. And I just want to say one more thing to Zach and everybody who has these fantasies and that I would say there's two kinds of fantasies. And I maybe I always feel like whenever you say something that you're like, well, there's a third. But let me just tell you, this is the ones that you want to happen and the ones that you don't want to happen. And it's okay to have the ones in your head that you're just like, I'm just going to think about this and I'm going to think about whatever I want and I'm going to keep it to myself. And it feels really good. It turns me on. And it's my thing. It's my go to. It's my spank bank. I use it for arousal. Done. Like, that's. That's great. And it doesn't have to define you or you don't have to really, like, worry about that. You have to worry about any of them, to be honest. Like, let's all chill out. But then there's the ones that you might want to happen. Like, meaning you want to act about with a partner. And so if that's your, you know, fantasy, then maybe we would know that you want to take another step here. So anyway, something to look at people. Yeah, there's a third fantasy. Let me know.

Hi, Emily, this is Liz from Oklahoma. I identify as a woman and I am bisexual. I am in a straight marriage, so I am married to a man. And our sex life has always been really good. My question is, how do I get my husband to explore the kinks that I am into when he thinks they are weird? For example, I asked him if he would like to bring in another woman into the bedroom. And me thinking, what guy would say no to that? But my husband did actually say no. But to kind of combat that, I was like, well, it's not a real woman. How about a sex doll that looks like a woman? And so we ordered a sex doll and have used it three or four times. But after asking to use it again, my husband now thinks it's weird and awkward. Any tips on helping me with this? I would really like to use it and I would really also like to be with another woman, but not sure if my husband will go for it. So how do I help my husband understand my kinkiness and how we can maybe, I don't know, do my kinks more often? Thanks for your help. I appreciate you. Love your show. Bye. Bye.

I think it's interesting that Liz says that she's bisexual and is facing this challenge from her husband that she wants to be with another woman and that like, in addition to the sex doll, like that doesn't feel really welcomed because as you know, like, I obviously think like being bisexual is very important and to talk about it is very important. So I guess I would wonder how much they've talked about that and like what it means. Like, have they talked about it beyond just a behavior? Have they talked about it as a behavior and like what it looks like. And I wonder if that could like, having that conversation could even like pave the way to get to the sex doll.

Yeah, I'm totally with you. It seems like they are, you know, they're married and no, he knows that she's bi, but yet there's no space in this marriage for her to actually play with her. She calls it a kink though. It's interesting. So when I talk about kink, people always think like, what is kinky? And I'm like, well, it's basically anything beyond missionary. It's probably like it's. If you think you missionary and you make out, maybe that's conventional. But if kink is pretty much like, even like oral sex can be seen as kinky. So what I'm saying here is that it sounds like you're in a very straight marriage, that this is something that your partner. There needs to be a lot more opening up here. I think of just understanding desire and what turns you on and why it's important to be in a relationship, to be able to share each other's turn ons and to grow together sexually. Because this to me, like you're 27 years old, I don't know how you've been together, but it's going to be like a really, really long life with this relationship. If you guys don't both learn how to sort of open up together. I'd want to know what he's into. What does he want to explore? Now I'm already hearing him by saying I'm happy with just the way it is. Right, but you're not. Right now she's not Liz. So I would say that there's a lot more to share. Like what is it about, you know, being with a woman or identifying as bisexual? What does it mean to you? Like, like Jen's point. Like, can you go a little bit deeper with that? What are your desires? What are your, what are you into? Like, I think it's great that the, the Doll does it for you. There just needs to be more opening here. And I always say, like, create a culture of communication and sex curiosity in your home by listening to other podcasts and, you know, reading books or watching tv. That would kind of open up the environment where he might not hear other people talking like this. It might seem very weird. You may have fear around it. Like. Like, it sounds like, you know, some partners might feel like that would be really hot to see with someone else, as we talked about, but some are just like, no, that is cheating. That's going to take away from attraction. So I think there's some confusion here and some education that needs to happen.

Yeah. And actually, like, by visibility week, By Visibility day is a great chance to, like, be like, remember, I'm bi.

Okay, so what is the call to action?

I mean, for me, the call to action is post a hot selfie on Instagram immediately. But I think it can also be like, hey, it's bi visibility day. Remember a long time ago we talked about that I'm bi. Like, I'm getting more in touch with that. You could be like, I'm reading this great book, Greedy. Slowly but surely, there's a lot stronger bisexual representation in media. And, like, anytime you consume content that, like, they mention bisexuality, it's a great opportunity to, like, be like, oh, you know, I really related to that, or like, to kind of use that as an opener.

Where would you direct people then? Is there anything else that opened you up or some recently that has.

Yes. I love the show Hacks on hbo. I think it's, like, one of the best, like, bisexual representations I have seen. And they talk about queerness so beautifully and not in an overbearing way at all. It's just, like, additive to the show. I also really love the show Generation on hbo, which was canceled, but I love it. And it has a lot of really strong bisexual conversations. And on that show, there are great, flawed bisexual characters. Because a lot of times it's like, you want to write a bisexual character who's, like, very straight and narrow. Like, not being promiscuous. Like, you don't want to fall into these stereotypes, but bi people are allowed to be human. And it's actually, like, not because of their bisexuality that they're a hot mess. It's just coincidence.

We can all be a hot mess no matter who we sleep with.

Yes.

Oh, that's good. That's helpful.

Hi, Emily. I reached out a little while ago over email, but I couldn't find a time that worked for me on your schedule to have you call me back. My question is, my boyfriend is bisexual, which is great, but the reason that I'm calling this two parts. One is I feel kind of insecure about that, and I just wanted to talk to you about that. And the second part is I am wanting to try anal stuff with him, which I know he's into because he does it to himself, but he doesn't really seem open to having me do it with him. He just kind of says, like, oh, like, you know, that makes me uncomfortable to think about doing it with you. He'll do stuff to me if I want him to, but he's, like, not wanting me to do it to him. And I just feel like that would be a great thing for us to do together. I already know he likes it, so I just was wondering if you have any tips about, like, how to go about that conversation. I've already tried. I think I'm a pretty good communicator, or maybe I should just leave it and not try. So. Yeah, thanks for your podcast. I really enjoy it. I listen to it a lot, and it's totally helping me, like, kind of realize some things. I'm in my 20s, so just kind of realize some things that I. I haven't, you know, that I would like to try in my life. So thank you for everything you do.

All right, Lauren, you probably hear that a lot. What about Jen, about feeling insecure and worried that, like, your partner could leave you, be greedy and leave you for anyone. Right. So that. That probably comes up a lot.

That's, like, exactly where that stereotype comes from, for sure. Well, I think it's interesting that. Exactly. I think it's interesting that in this one, Lauren says, starts by saying, my boyfriend is bisexual, which is great. So there's, like, some undertone of, like, support and encouragement, which is, like, amazing. You know, that's not always a given, and I think that's really great, and it's awesome to see that. But then the next line is like, I feel kind of insecure about that. So I think it's really nice that there's that acknowledgement that this is a good thing and then acknowledgement that that is, like, within Lauren to address. I also think this actually comes up a lot in relationships with bisexual men. Like, this conversation about anal or, like, this has come up a lot for me personally. I'm not sure that that's something that.

No, it is, though. Yeah.

A mappable.

We can map it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Cool.

I believe that if you have A man, you have a penis and you have prostate. And I think that there's a lot of guys who assume that if they stimulate that prostate that it means something other sexuality, it makes them gay. It makes them something. And I just, I think I should say this on every show for the rest of my life. And I've said it on a lot of them, but it does not. It just means that it feels really good and you're open to pleasure and you're open to exploration. And I just think it's kind of sad that a lot of guys will never explore that. A lot of men won't. So I just want to say that that's just my anal thing. However, what's interesting here is that she's like, now I want to do it because I know you like it. So she's feeling a little bit left out. And what I would say the conversation would go outside the bedroom with your partner just saying, hey, let's talk about our sex life. Let's talk about things that we're into and that we both want to try. And like, what would be a big turn on for you? Let me tell you what would be a big turnaround for me. Because rather than like, I think that since you did mention Lauren did mention that it makes her a little bit insecure that she's trying to be like, well, then I'll do this and then I'll really please him. I'll do this. But you don't know. Like, maybe he just likes doing it himself. You know, maybe he doesn't actually want you to, but he has other fantasies. So I think rather than making assumptions. And she's never going to win this place if you keep trying to be what you think he wants. Just have a conversation with it that's just like, like open. Like, let's agree that we both want to be great lovers to each other. Are you in? Okay, cool. Let's talk about what our big turn ons are, what that would look like and what could we do with each other? Because I think she's just kind of, she wants to stay ahead of this bisexual because anytime you could turn around and be with someone else, you know, be with a man. Like, so she's has these concerns and I think that let's in real time figure out what, what he actually wants and what you guys could do together to play.

Yeah, I love that. I, I also think like, maybe he, I don't know if they are open or polyamorous, but maybe he wants to like explore connecting and hooking up with other genders. And maybe that's what's not being said when these conversations are happening. Like, when he doesn't want her to do it. Like, maybe there's something else that he wants that he almost feels like he's communicated a little bit with by saying he's bisexual but hasn't, like, fully communicated.

She obviously doesn't have enough information. If you're in a relationship with somebody now and you're confused or you're insecure, that doesn't mean that you're, like, an insane person. Or, like, I can't believe these feelings. I have to make them go away. I'm gonna do everything to make them go away. There's some information there. Like, why are you insecure?

Yeah.

And that's when you have conversation. And these are all communication skills which we are not taught in life. So it's okay. But it's like being a good listener, not attacking them, not saying, like, I know that you're. Why are you wanting to be with other men and not with me? But saying, I really want to know a little bit more. These feelings come up for me where I feel like I can't quite be enough for you. And I know you've talked about your bisexuality, but I'd love to know a little bit more about it. Can you tell me about your experience with it? What about it turned you out? Like. Like, and then you have to remember that you have to, like, breathe, and you have to listen, and you have to reflect back what you hear, and then that's how she's gonna go a little bit deeper. Cause I think you're right. I think there's just. There's more to be revealed here. But she doesn't know enough about his bisexuality.

Yeah, I feel like a broken record because that's, like, my response to each of these questions is, like, talk about your bisexuality with your partner. But it's true. Because it's true. It's so. You know, when I started writing my book, people were like, are you really gonna be able to write a whole book about bisexuality? And it was so easy because there's so much to say because it's all about, like, nuance and personal, like, your personal preferences. And, like, it's really, like, it can unlock some really amazing conversation territory beyond just, like, who you want to sleep with. And then I'll also say, like, all the shows I was referencing earlier, and, like, it being bi visibility day, it's a great time for you to start conversations with your partner. Like, even if you're not bi, it's a great opportunity to be like, hey, it's bi visibility day. I see you. Hi. Tell me about your bisexuality. Like, it's a great way in.

They should do something today. They should do have a conversation day and read your book because this is your book. It's a memoir, really. And you kind of COVID so many different of the. So many terrain of the bisexuality, terrain that people think people can kind of like, see themselves in this. They will find parts of themselves in your story that might help them feel better about themselves or their partner. I hope so.

I hope it gives people something to talk about if you read it.

Okay, cool. Greedy Notes from a Bisexual who wants too much. And Jen, I want to ask you the five quickie questions. You don't have to prep for them. Easy. Ready? Okay. Jen, what's your biggest turn on food? What's your biggest turn off.

Anxiety?

What makes good sex?

Communication?

Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships?

Just have fun.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex?

That it's supposed to be enjoyable. I didn't know that for way too long.

Such a good one. Okay, thanks, Jen. How can everyone find you?

You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and I guess TikTok now at generous with a J. Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful and it was great to hear from all your listeners.

It was fun, right? Thanks for being here. I appreciate you. Yay.

That's it for today's episode. See you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to, like, subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Exwithemily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up@sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline, 559-talk-SEX. That's 559-82559 or go to sexwithemily.com askemily Special thanks to Acast for powering the Sex with Emily podcast. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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