Behind The Porn Curtain w/ Jacky St. James & Ana Foxxx

Well, I'm curious, Anna. What have you learned about your own pleasure, your own pleasure doing porn? The last decade, I found a lot.

More places that I didn't know. I liked to be touched. I thought sex was just straightforward and missionary and maybe doggy. So I've learned a lot more positions. I do anal, guys and girls. I'm a lot more fluid than I thought I was before, which is pretty awes.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. All right. You ever wonder what happens behind the scenes of your favorite porn? Well, today I'm joined by adult film director Jackie St. James and performer Anna Fox. We discuss their hottest scenes, what it's actually like being on a porn set, what actually constitutes ethical porn, and whether porn actors fake their orgasms. Plus, Jackie walks me through her approach to creating an adult film and how the porn industry has changed over time. Anna talks about what it's like dating as a porn star. Details from her Dirty 30 birthday party. That's a scene she'll never forget. And how porn has shaped her sex life on and off screen. We also get into your questions, like, is porn scripted or spontaneous? And is it normal to get get jealous when your partner watches porn? So I just want to make clear two things that we talk about in this episode. Ethical porn. So ethical porn is porn that respects the rights of performers, has good working conditions, shows both fantasy and real world sex, and celebrates sexual diversity. And they often say it's porn for women, by women, but I don't want to limit it to that because I know all genders. I know penises who love ethical porn because it's just more realistic. You know, you're going to see things in there that actually feel like real sex. The closest thing we can get to authentic. Now, I also wanted to find tube sites. So tube sites, if you've seen porn, that's probably what you've seen is one of the tube sites. That's just the basic free porn sites where anyone can upload clips. Sometimes people are throwing up videos they took from other sites. And this is porn that's made by men for men, and it's with the male gaze in mind what men find sexy or what penises find sexy. So. So I just want to define that for you as we move into the episode. Please rate and review sex with Emily wherever you listen to the podcast. It just helps get the podcast out to more people like you. You can find us on all social media. It is exwithemily. Be sure to check out my new article Valentine's Day Gift guide the Ultimate Pleasure Journey on our Website sex with emily.com I want to let you know that the paperback of my book Smart Sex is now out in bookstores in the US and if you live in the UK, my book was just released January 30th. More places coming soon. But check out Smart Sex. If you're a paperback person, check out the paperback. You're gonna love it. It's been an incredible journey with book and now the paperback is so exciting. Also wanted to mention my membership community, Smart S X that we launched in September. And it's just been an incredible community of people coming together to share, to grow, to support each other, to have accountability in our desires, to have better sex. I bring in some of the leading experts in the world to teach, you know, a few times a month. It's just a wonderful community. We're exploring and learning so much about ourselves and you can learn about your sexual health and just join us there. All right everyone, enjoy this episode.

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Jackie St. James is an award winning writer, director and producer of ethical erotic content. She's a huge proponent in positive sexuality. Her work aims to explore, embrace and normalize the very varied path of female desires. Anna Fox, Triple X is an American porn star. And she has performed in over 200 movies. Anna Fox has several recognized performance. You can see her at Bellesa. I'm excited because you came highly recommended as a fabulous duo that work very well together. Because I thought how great to have a director on and a porn star to kind of talk about what it's like working together, the state of porn today. And so maybe you could just start with. Everyone always wants to know. And I want to know, how did you both get into the industry? Anna?

I had a boyfriend and we would hump very often and very terribly often. So I really wanted him to be better. And it just so happened. My cousin was a club promoter and they were promoting porn parties. One weekend that I went, I just didn't even know porn people still existed. I thought that they were just in Hustlers on the back of my dad's toilet. So I was like, oh, they exist and they're here in front of me. They gave me a card to join porn and I was like, I'm gonna give it to my boyfriend. Cause he needs to learn how to like give me those like storybook orgasms. And he didn't join porn. So yeah, I decided to take the dare instead. And then.

So you, you. That's how you got into acting and porn?

Yeah, I really wanted to learn how to have better orgasms. So when it came across, I was like, oh, nobody's ever gonna wanna watch me do porn, but at least I'll learn how to give like a BJ, you know?

Right? Jackie St. James, I've heard of you for years. You're legend in this industry. Tell me how you got into this, Jackie.

Thank you.

I worked in corporate America and basically watched a lot of porn. I watched porn from the time I was 18 when you had to go back behind the curtain at the video store. But when it got on tube sites, my guy friends would send me links and we'd always laugh like, oh, that's a crazy scene. Or whatever. And one of my guy friends sent me a link to a clip that was for a studio that was doing romance. And it was scripted and the people were attractive, the guys were attractive. And I was like, what is this studio? So when I googled it, I found out a little bit about them. And they were doing a screenwriting contest for their studio. And I entered the contest and won and then went on to win AVN for best screenplay that year. It was like a whirlwind.

That's amazing. You entered the contest, you won, and now you've been doing it for 10 years. And, Anna, how has it impacted your sex life, your sexuality? Being we're acting in porn?

I definitely am very thankful for porn because my sex life definitely would have sucked a lot, like, in bad ways.

I feel like I have magic powers now that I've been in porn and, like, experienced so many different people and different situations. Like, it made me step outside of what I thought was hot, you know, now. Now I'm in more scenarios and situations that I never would have tried before. So I feel like a very well rounded oralist.

Yeah.

Well, I'm curious, Anna. What have you learned about your own pleasure, your own pleasure doing porn? The last decade, I found a lot.

More places that I didn't know I liked to be touched. I thought sex was just straightforward and missionary and maybe doggy. So I've learned a lot more positions. I do anal.

Guys and girls. I'm a lot more fluid than I thought I was before, which is pretty, pretty awesome.

Well, what we want to talk about today too, one of the things is porn that's made for women by women or just ethical porn. There's so much challenge in the industry because people like porn, but in heterosexual relationships, they're like, my partner watches. Like, if it's a woman, she's like, but I don't. I don't feel great about what I'm seeing. And I'm like, well, you should check out porn. That's more. You know, I've talked about, like, Erica Lust or Bellesa, and now I'm happy to see that there are more places right now doing it. But, Jackie, I know you've been doing this a long time, and we grew up in the same way that we didn't have porn to watch really. And so I feel like when I was learning to have sex, I was just sort of feeling my way through it. And then I wonder, when you're working with younger women now in their 20s, even in their 30s, like, are they kind of like mimicking? Oh, making the moans and like throwing their, like, saying things. You're like, does that actually feel good to you? So in a way, you're sort of part sex therapist, part director. What's been your experience? Oh, yeah.

I mean, I find that anyone in younger generations, I mean, the Gen Xers, I think, get it because they had to feel their way through sex.

Yeah.

But deal with younger women especially, that are taught that like gagging and dry heaving on a penis is how you give a blowjob or making a sound even before a hand has touched them.

Right.

You're like, it's really about, like, reeducating and trying to unteach. Because when you grow up on porn and bad porn, that's kind of what people think is how you have sex. And for me, I mean, just looking at the women, you know, when a woman is having sincere pleasure and when they're faking it. And like, a lot of times the younger performers, they're clearly faking it. And I just wonder if they've ever even experienced an orgasm.

Have they? I mean, so have you found that maybe they haven't? Like, do you have to be like, okay, cut. You know, we need to go back in this. We gotta talk?

And a lot of times I do, but sometimes you can't fully unteach somebody what is so fundamentally part of their sexual, I guess, experience. And so if they grew up only watching hardcore porn, it's very hard for them to understand that, like, open it doesn't have to be what you saw. I mean, maybe you do enjoy giving a small job, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean that that's what every man wants. And so it's sort of trying to open women up and really getting to them to understand that an orgasm isn't just this flailing thing. And I always notice when the guy is doing something and she's like, oh, yeah, I'm about to come. And then he completely switches up what he's doing, and she still manages to have an orgasm. I'm like, clearly, you didn't come.

Right? Exactly.

Change it up, dude.

Do not move. When we say don't stop, we mean don't stop and don't change. We mean, like, do not move. Do not do anything. Don't go faster, don't go slower. Do the same thing. Right, Right, Anna?

I agree.

So tell me, how long have you been doing this?

I believe I'm on my decade. I believe.

Okay. Most porn that people see these days, when we talk about porn being so ubiquitous, since we all got phones in our hand about the last decade, it's mostly the tube sites, and it's made by men for men, I would say, in the most part. And so when people think of porn, they think of this free porn. They go to people that don't even look real. And that's why there's so much, like, vulva shaming. Like, and I'm always saying to them, like, no, she's cheating towards camera. They tug labias in. There's makeup on it. And the amazing thing that I saw when I saw Something that you directed, Jackie, recently, and I was talking about this at the office today, that she had, like, razor burn. Like, she. Like, it was so real but still hot, but, like, she. You weren't trying to cover that up because that's real life. You're like, God damn having sex. And I shaved, and I've got these bumps. So is that mostly the kind of porn that you're doing these days, Jackie?

For me, there's this. Their Bless A plus series is what I'm mainly working under. And everything is. Is natural. A lot of times I'll just get to set and we'll talk about, you know, what they're in the mood to do. And I let them have at it. And it's not about opening up, because in all honesty, and I mean, Anna can speak to this too. It's when they're opening up for camera, it's just not gonna feel the same way it would if they were just at home having sex with their partner. And we want to see the connection less than the penetration, because the connection and the hotness between the two performers is so much hotter than just seeing a penis and a vagina go at it. It's just. That's so uninteresting. And it's been done so many times that why not provide something different?

Right? Exactly. And so I always think it's like, it has contacts, it has a plot. Do you actually know why they're having sex? Maybe there's some tension built up. And so, Jackie, that starts with you, though. You're coming up with these stories. How do you come up with the content?

I mean, for me, it always starts with the relationship. So I just pick, like, two characters, and I'm like, what is their scenario? Is it, you know, two people that have always wanted to have sex, or maybe they've had sex and now they've broken up and want to get back together? I mean, there's so many. I mean, there's a limitless possibilities of what can be taught and sexy. So with the scripts and stuff, I just pull from a relationship and I.

Build a story around it.

And it's so authentic because it's whatever the person is feeling in that moment. And nobody ever has sex the same way twice.

Right.

You know, in porn, in traditional porn, they always do, but, like, we don't. We have sex, whatever. We're feeling that moment.

So.

Yeah. Okay, Anna, what about you? So you got a lot to say there, Anna. So tell me about some of the hot scenes that you've done that you've worked on together.

By far. My favorite scene for Jackie was with Mr. Castle.

Tell me everything. Tell me everything.

I think everybody knew. I think everybody knew that day that we were gonna, like, come clashing together like magnets. Like, I fucking love Johnny. And, like, Jackie did everything she did to give me the person that I wanted to. So for me, the story didn't even matter. I was just really happy.

Really happy to hump Johnny for Jackie.

Okay.

But the story was really good that the story built a lot of tension and, like, a lot of, like, flirting, which was really fun for me to, like, not right away attack Johnny. Like, I wanted to so to, like, sit there and, like, do dialogue with.

Him all day and, like, ran at.

Him and pretend like I didn't want to hump him. It was so cute.

Walk me through a day. Like, you get to this. Like, how do you get ready for a day on the set? Like, do you have to do it all?

I do all the things. I'm such a moisturizing goddess. I have, like, a tower of moisture. So Johnny got a special bath bomb for the morning time, and I sat there and I thought about his cuteness. And then when I finally got to set, I just was, like, really excited, waiting for him, you know? And then, like, it's fun, like, giggling around the corner with Jackie and being like, oh, my God, he's coming. He's so hot.

I love that it gets that way. That's good.

Yeah. It's, like, such a girly, like, exciting day. So, you know, my cheeks hurt. And then, like, when he finally arrives, everybody's just, like, shocked at how handsome he is. So it makes me feel better. I'm like, yes, I'm doing good. I'm getting good dick from a handsome goddess. So it's just like a fairytale day. Everything went so smooth. I love the crew. I love Johnny. I love Jackie. Everything was perfect.

Can you walk me through a scene? Like, the hottest scene with him?

Like, I've had so much sex with Johnny, and I've never seen such a giant puddle of sweat on the floor. After, like, it looked like someone took a giant bucket and just dumped it on the floor. And I was like, wow, we were really fucking. And it wasn't until I saw the scene after that I realized how hot it was because I was, like, in. I was in La La land. I was not paying attention. But I saw the scene, and it was so hot. Like, the angles. There was this, like, angle where I'm, like, giving him a blowjob and he's like, finger banging me. And the perspective was really cool. And I was like, oh, my God. The crew knew what they were doing.

Well, I have a question. When you say you were so in the moment and you were a la land, so do you actually lose yourself?

Oh, yeah. Especially, like, when it's a good day when I really want to work with the talent. Like, the only time I feel like I'm on camera is when we're doing dialogue. You know, once, like, we kiss and there's no cut, I'm like, completely forgot that they were there until we're done. And I'm like, oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's, to me, the ideal.

Exactly. Like, it's the best day.

Yeah, that is. So most porn we're watching, it really is scripted. Like, okay, you know, time to move from doggy to choking on his penis. Okay, but. But with this one, it's not happening. You're saying it's more like just chemistry and where it goes like real sex. You know, I don't plan it out. I don't text my partner. And I'm not like, I'm gonna give you a blowjob at 8:02, and then at 8:16, you're gonna go down to me till 9:15. Although sometimes I do say that, but. Right. So you really just go into the moment of what is, what feels.

The only time that it's ever. I mean, I don't want to say scripted is like, if what we were talking about, if it was somebody that's younger, that's like, immediately like, you know, gagging on the penis and just really going extreme and screaming, you know, obscenities or whatever. I don't really like to interfere because I want them to have organic sex. And like Anna was saying where she doesn't even know we're there until it's over. And that's why it's critical for us. Like, I don't like to cut unless it's like an absolute emergency. Because the second that we start putting our crew stuff on their sex scene, it feels produced. So we try and just do nothing. Like, we communicate through headsets like I do with the crew to be like, oh, get this angle or get this. We try to not have the talent hear us communicating because we want them to have fun and enjoy.

Okay, so tell me about that, Anna. How do you. So you're in the moment, you're with someone, you're attracted to them. This guy. Are most of them, Would you say you are? I mean, we just talked about One of your best experiences. But how do you turn it on for someone if you maybe aren't that into them?

For the most part, I go to work to have a good time. So whenever I'm given a person, if I have a connection with them or not, I just want to try them out and make them react to me. So I. I just kind of feel like they're gonna be excited to work with me. So I, like, moisturize myself and, like, I got all the nice scents and stuff. And if they're not excited just from, like, sniffing me, then, you know, I don't know. But, you know, I try to make a little, like, fun ambiance. So that way, like, there's an attraction no matter what's going on. Like, if they can't. If. I don't know, like, if I'm smothering their face, they can smell me. I smell good. You know, if they're looking at my butt, my butt's not. So, you know, there's lots of things to play with and explore, and it usually goes well.

I know there's been a lot of talk about how this is real. There's real orgasms on the set?

Oh, yeah, always.

Majority of time, I try to have.

Orgasms as much as I can, but sometimes I don't, like, get there. And I'm not necessarily sad if I don't, like, have an orgasm, but I'm kind of like, oh, you know, like, we only have so much time in the scene, so it's a lot easier on sets. Like Jackie's versus somewhere else.

I got it. But for Jackie, you just shook your head. You said they don't always have orgasms, but do they then do they fake them? Or there's just no orgasm in the scene?

I mean, so again, it comes back to this, you know, and even in, like, interviews with performers, you'll see a lot of them be like, oh, yeah, I come all the time. That's a lie. And they're saying it to appease their fans, right? Fan wants to believe that these girls, their breasts can be touched and they're having an orgasm. That's just not realistic, right? So for me, I always tell them, don't fake it. Don't fake orgasms. But at the end of the day, I can't control if they choose to fake it. And there's other reasons why people might want to fake it. Like, maybe they're trying to encourage the male talent because he's struggling, and there's a lot of things that are at play but no, I mean, a lot of times I tell the performers, I just say, if you aren't going to come, it doesn't matter. It can still be hot without an orgasm and you can still really enjoy sex. So I haven't really seen, to my knowledge, fake orgasms on Bellesa. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened. But I don't.

Because you can tell.

Oh, yeah, they're good.

They're good orgasms.

I'm sure if somebody comes like six times in a scene, we know they're faking it.

Right, Right. Because that's just not going to happen there. So now there's all these trends in porn. So I'm wondering, like, MILF porn and cuckolding or wife swapping or hot wife. How do you decide? Like, is there any new porn that you want to do that you haven't been able to do or do you feel like, well, I still got to do what people like.

For me, it's the reality stuff. We're doing this series called Blind Aid. It hasn't released yet, but it's. We set up two people and they have no idea who they're working with. We make sure that they're not on their no list. But again, it's getting back to the authenticity because Having worked for 10 years, I mean, like, really nothing feels new to me except for real sex. And that's so sad to say, but, you know, I've done faux CEST and the MILF stuff and, you know, I mean, just all the genres because porn is about the genres. And so for me, yeah, I love doing the reality amateur y stuff. It just feels good because you can tell that people are enjoying it and.

It'S not a performance.

What about you, Anna? What do you like doing these days?

Oh, I have to 100% agree with Jackie. Anytime I'm given a script where I'm a MILF or someone's stepmom or someone, something weird, I don't relate and I just feel kind of ridiculous. I'm 100% about the authentic porn right now. I love just going to work and come in because I feel like it, you know, having a good day is. Is always best. So anytime I can do authentic porn, I'm down.

So let's talk about what is authentic porn. Let's define it.

Real sex, you know, where I don't feel like I have to. To compete with other girls that might be in the scene or other people on the site where I'm. I'm literally hired just to be me. Like, you know, I'm not a stepmom or an ebony or the teen or whatever. I'm just a human girl.

Another human.

Okay. Would you say that ethical and authentic porn are the same? Because a lot of people don't know what ethical porn is. I kind of want to rebrand it because ethical makes people think. Like porn and ethics sometimes for some people, doesn't go in the same sentence. But would you say that's kind of like authentic porn? As we're talking, there's more connection.

There will always be a connection. There's no fake orgasms. I mean, again, this is the same thing where it's like, we're not forcing people to behave a certain way. We're asking them to behave how they feel in the moment, which is seldom asked in any other studio. Feel what you're feeling? No, it's a performance for the audience. And the audience's enjoyment will come from seeing their enjoyment. Yeah. So Anna talked about this with Johnny Castle. I always will ask people who they want to work with, and that is not done very often on porn either. So you're just stuck with who you're working with, whereas I'm actually seeking out somebody that they genuinely have an okay interest in or a very big interest. I mean, sometimes scheduling doesn't work out, but.

Yeah. What do you think, Anna? If you just had to say what.

Comes to your mind, it's less of a performance.

Like, one of the first times I feel like I'm having, like, real sex. Like, and not having to, like, you know, beatbox on a dick or whatever. Like, you know, I just like selfishly enjoying myself without thinking about the audience.

Right.

So from a performer standpoint, it feels very real, really authentic and love that man. I know when I first saw the pictures of Lesa and like, just the pictures of the girls faces, I was like, oh, I wanna.

I want to do that.

They were in ecstasy.

So do you guys. But. So is it scripted? But really the only part scripted is the actual scripted part. But the sex is not. Like, how much about regular porn would you say that? Like, the tube site's porn is all scripted, right?

Yeah, it's definitely. The other sites are scripted. We take pictures of how we're gonna have the sex. We map out how we're gonna have the sex. We know how long it's gonna be, we know when we're gonna change. They'll even call it out, like football.

Plays, you know, like they do.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so. So I'm sitting there, like, getting Fucked. And like, you know, the clock's ticking. Like, I got two minutes to enjoy this, so. Because we're going to flip into. And then the next things for five minutes, we're going to flip, flip, flip. It's so scripted.

Yeah.

So scripted.

You guys are taking your time, I think. Yeah. I mean, I heard you say in an interview, Jackie, that it's like 16 hour days.

Yeah, if we're doing features. Yeah, for the reality stuff. No, because it's not, you know, the reality stuff isn't scripted.

So.

So it's.

You're in and out.

But I mean, our crew, literally and figuratively. How do you know when a scene is over then?

Well, I do tell them because we try and keep the scenes to about 30 minutes. But you can also, I think the performers naturally feel an end. And so we feel it too. So we'll be like, all right, whenever you guys want to wrap it up. But on the amateur stuff, I tell them you end when you feel like it. So it's completely on them to decide when it ends.

That's great. I feel that. I feel that. Anna, you're so happy. It's so smiley.

Yeah.

Anna, is there any. I know you probably get asked this a lot. What is your. Like the scene that you did that you're like, I've arrived. Or. This was the craziest scene that was really a turn on and erotic and amazing if you had to just break it down. What was going on?

Probably my 30th birthday, I had a dirty 30 orgy and it was by far like the craziest, like post nut thing I ever did on film. Yeah.

Where is it? Can we find. I want to join your birthday party.

It's online, it's on my only fans and it's on analyzed.

Okay.

But I got to pick. I wanted to have as many people as I could get without going like crazy. Like, I didn't want like 50, but not 50.

So what's the limit?

10, I think I had 13, which is a pretty cool number. And I picked six of them. So I specifically knew who six were and I didn't know who the rest were. And I wanted to be ready for them to just attack me. And then after they all fucked me like they could fuck each other. And so I dressed up like Cruella de Vil.

Amazing because my birthday is by Halloween and I came out and they were all butt naked and they all just like attacked me. And it was really cool, like being like a cookie for ants and not knowing whose hand was Touching me where? And like, whose. What was what? And I could just like, see through, like, crevices of fingers, like, people's reaction, and they were like, whoa. And like. Because there's like, at the point that penises start entering me, they're like, oh, my God.

It's like a Mayweather fight. So it was pretty interesting and really fun.

That is a lot. I mean, that'd be a lot to do. Have you directed a scene like that?

I've never directed a scene with that many people. No. Well, I guess kind of that one kind of Coke directed it since it was my.

Yeah, it was your birthday. Yeah. Jackie, what about you? Is there, like a career? You've been doing this a while. Like, highlight, where you're like, oh, this is. This is what I love. Is there what was going on in the scene?

You know, this is a strange thing. And this isn't like a career defining moment, but it was just a moment where I was like, oh, we're doing something different. It was a lesbian scene. And it's not like this most epic, memorable scene. But what I remember. And I remember because a lot of times, I mean, I've seen so many people have sex that it's like sometimes it just becomes same old, same old. But with this, it was two female performers, and for 13 minutes, they didn't even take off their shirts. And I remember the male camera guy at the time who doesn't work for me anymore was like, tell her to get her tits out. And I'm like, no. Like, this is. This is exactly what it is. It's just letting two people explore. And it was so fascinating because I didn't even realize how long it had been until the camera guys started yelling at me to get. Tell them to get their shirts off. But I realized they've been doing this for 13 minutes. But yet I was totally captivated. I wasn't looking at the time, and they were just making out and, like, grinding on each other. And I thought, this is different than anything that's being done right now. And this is fucking cool.

Yeah, that's real. That's what we're talking about. That's ethical and that's authentic. We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, I asked Jackie and Anna our quickie questions. Don't go wig.

So what. Tell me, if you always had to say, like, what is the best part of your jobs? What's the worst part of your jobs? Best. What do you love about it?

The putting people together part. The good surprise is Important is always really important.

What's a good surprise?

When me and Jackie just worked together, we put Lotus. With David. Yeah. With David Lee. And they were. We were so cute.

We had our own non sex scene going on.

Right. We were excited and they were excited. And like the genuine, like, attraction and the adorableness of two people getting together was like, oh, this is why we do this.

What about you, Jackie?

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just really connecting with the performers and seeing them happy and walk away feeling good. But that's my favorite.

Okay, what's the least favorite part?

Payroll.

Payroll.

Paperwork. Paperwork. I mean, there's.

Because there's so many laws in porn, like these 2000-25-7 laws, which I think started because Tracy Lawrence, I believe that's when it started. So we have so much paperwork and it's. You can't just do one set of paperwork and it applies for. It's like every day you're on set, you have to. To fill out different paperwork. And it's a lot. It's very tedious.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that's same with every industry. Right? I don't know. In a way. Like, I hate paperwork. I hate running payroll. Nightmare. What about you, Anna? What about, like, being in porn? What part of it is like, some days, are you ever, like, I don't feel like having sex today, but I got to.

I don't know.

Yeah, probably that part. Like, sometimes, like, I see people grinding every day and I am like aggressively horny like once a week.

So that's still good.

You know, just.

Yeah.

You know, trying to find the drive to like, always want to like, turn Anna Fox on is probably like the hardest thing. But then when you get cuties, you just, you make it work.

What does turn you on, Anna? Like, even in your. I guess in your, your personal life, are you in a relationship? Are you in a relationship?

Kind of, I guess, trying to figure it out.

Okay, what's it like dating at a porn star? Like, so I would think that there's a certain expectation that when people date you that you're going to be.

Yeah, it's terrible. I prefer dating porn stars over civilians because there's always a point when the understanding is like, missed, you know, like we're. We're on two different pages. Like, my job is always going to remain my job. But, you know, the other party wants you to like, stop or change because, you know, they're like, no, I really want you to myself and I don't want you doing gang bangs anymore. And I'm like, but I love gang bang.

But they're really fun. So how is it different? Can you talk to me about what is. So if you're having sex with a civilian, what is the difference? Like, if I was watching you at home with your partner.

Well, at home, sex with civilian versus porn star. Because porn star sex kind of like, are like in a jungle gym and just. But sex with a new partner at home, I. It's like slower, a lot slower. You know, like, take the longest time just like, kissing and exploring before any of that other stuff comes out. And it kind of feels like high school, you know, like your first time. Ish. Where it's like, taking such a long time to do the foreplay and getting to know each other. So it feels really romantic to me, you know, Like, I definitely don't do any of the porn stuff, so I have to let them know, like, right away. Like, don't put that shit in my butt. I'm not squirting on the couch. Like, we're not gonna fucking through the house right here, right? You know, like, it's very slow, very casual until. Until there's tequila. But for the most part, it's very.

Well, that's very real life. Right? But the thing that I liked about the porn that I did watch that you've directed and that you've been, is that some of it is slow. Like, It's. You have 30 minutes. There's, like, build up. I love that there's a lot more oral sex on a vulva. You see that way more leading with that. We're not just starting with blowjob on a penis, you know, how do you create that tension? Because I think some of us even in relationships can think about, like, how do I go home and still wanna have sex with my partner after so long? So what are the elements that you've learned, Jackie, that actually create the sexual tension that we could learn from?

For me, I mean, I think it's just connecting through the eyes. And I think a lot of performers are really timid about doing that. Like, really looking at the person and not looking around and trying to some sort of thing that's all over the room. Like, if you just hone in to the person that you're desiring and you're just staring into their eyes, there's so much that builds just in looking at somebody and it's not done enough. In porn, where people just look at each other and stare and you can feel that palpable. Like, I want to rip your clothes off. But I mean, every scene is different because some of the scenes I write, it's literally. It's like a race to the finish line, and then we're going to rip off each other's clothes. But then some of the other scenes are like, what are we not saying? Because we really want to have sex. So it's trying to figure out what every scene. Like how the two people in this scene are going to have sex. And it's going to be different for every scene. So some scenes will be slow. Like somebody's first time or, you know, whatever it may be, would be a little slower. But maybe it's two exes that are getting back and rushing until somebody comes home or something.

Right, right. Do you find yourself, Jackie, on set, that there's something that you're like, every single set. These are the same kind of instructions I'm giving.

Correcting the eye contact thing.

That's a good one. It's so intimate. What else?

Crew? I will often get after the male crew because they like to cut off the guy's head in the shot, which is very traditional porn, where it's like, okay, let's dehumanize the guy. He's just like a fucking torso. And the thing is, women, and I don't like to make blanket statements, but the women do want to see the man and his reaction and how he reacts to a blowjob or how he reacts to what you're wearing. Whatever it is, it's sexy to look at a guy and him. Him reacting. So a lot of the male crew, especially if I'm working with new ones, I'm always like, stop cutting off his head. Like, please, please. Unless there's no way to get the shot. Like, the guy's head needs to be.

In the shot as well.

Just as important.

I agree. So what do you have to tell the porn stars, though, on set, like, when you're directing the.

I mean, like, the way they get blowjobs, so the guys like the way they eat pussy is.

Tell me, let's talk about how not to eat pussy and how to eat pussy, please.

I cannot imagine a woman enjoying, like, the flicking tongue or, like, the really rough fingering. And some people may like that. I mean, everyone's different. But, like, I think the men also ignore the clit a lot. And so it's like, play with the clit. The clit is, like, really important here. So it's stuff like that that the.

Aggressive fingering is like, what, are you digging for change in there? Like, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you don't even need. At least personally for me, like, you don't even need to put your fingers.

Yeah, but, like, guys don't. Again, I think it's easier to do the insertion in the vagina because on camera, it's easier to see that than if they're actually paying attention to the clit. It's harder to see on camera.

So what do you think, Anna? What about you? Or let's break down oral for a minute. So what have you found makes when you're receiving oral what is ideal for you? Or what have you learned about receiving oral that you really like that maybe we wouldn't have known before.

Probably not to receive it from a guy in porn.

Probably. Yeah. Unfortunately, like, the most part, guys in porn perform, like, they perform off camera. On camera. Off camera. So they still kind of do the same thing off camera. And they are unfortunately taught to be terrible pussy eaters. And the civilians, they got them beat on that. They like romance the stone, like, make out with the pussy. That's like, the best. The best. The porn guys I've had. I've had porn guys that wrote books about how to treat vaginas like that, like, are just the worst pussy eaters. And I'm like, what? You're an educator.

Writing a book about eating?

Why? Yeah, yeah, we need some women, some vulva owners, to write those books. So. So, Jackie, you probably like, you. You go in and direct. You're like, this is not. I mean, do. You're like, okay, cut. Okay, this is what you do. Like, here's the clitoral hood. It retracts slow. Do you ever have to do that? I mean, I practically have to do that, even with my lovers.

I think the reason why I don't. I mean, there's a few reasons. One, you don't want to emasculate somebody. But secondly, I think it is the responsibility of me to communicate to the performers, to communicate to each other. Because, again, what Anna is pleased by in oral might not be what I like and vice versa. So I think it's important that performers say, hey, I want you to do this to my vagina. Or, you know, because there are some girls that do want to be penetrated.

I don't.

But communicating to your partner and really telling them, and that is something I try and encourage people to do, is to communicate what they want. Because I think everyone in real life needs to be communicating and not making this assumption that there's one way to do everything.

But do you talk about this before the shoot? Then? Because if we're not scripting the sex, like, if I just went in with a guy and there was no. He didn't know what I like, like. And I find myself in real life correcting because I'm like, no, don't go. Don't put your finger in right now. Don't go so fast. So in the scenes where you're not directing the sex, like, and you don't want to cut the scene, like, Anna, how do you. When you're making a porn, can you actually direct them when it's. It's rolling? Because there might not be doing what you want.

I find that if I'm not like, meshing with my male partner or whoever I'm fucking, I try to non verbally communicate with them before I say it.

Okay.

Just because that's kind of like my love language. Like, I just like to like motion. And if you go with me this way, then I'm like, yay, we're doing it, you know? So I prefer to like, try to like motion them to do it. If I have to say it for me, it kind of like throws me off. So I'm just trying to like you, move your body. Cause I'm already talking shit in my head. So I'm trying to be nice to.

So you're saying you're like, God damn it doesn't know how to eat pudding. Buy another porn star that doesn't know how to eat pussy. Jesus.

Right, right, right. Oh, here's another one.

The tricky part about it is that every person who has a vulva is different what they want. But there. Are there any general rules that we should follow that people could follow if they have a special vulva in their life? Like, what would you say Jackie or.

Annie, don't ignore the clit? I mean, I think is the most because I think universally, you know, every woman's clit is a huge erogenous zone for them. So it's like that would be the one thing not to ignore.

Let's talk about penises real quick. What is the right and wrong things that we're seeing with oral on a penis?

It just feels like a performance. And I understand that, like, visually, a sloppy blowjob is very fascinating to watch. But at the same time, and you'll hear a lot of guys, especially uncircumcised guys, will complain that they're too rough. A lot of girls will just go to town and they don't realize that a circumcised penis is a lot more sensitive. And there's a Lot of other things at play. So, I mean, I would just say that, like, gagging is not. It's. It's gonzo porn. And it's not universally liked by all men either.

It's not. It's not universally like. That is true. So, Anna, do you have orgasms through penetration?

I do. I do. I find it hard to perform with a toy, but I prefer. I would like a toy with the. With the dick too. That would be fun. Like at home, it's a lot easier, but performing wise. Yeah, like, the guy is gonna. I don't really need the guy. Once I have the vibrator, I don't really need him. He can support the toy, but they complement each other.

And also they. Do vibrators feel good on penises too?

They do, but it takes a special penis to, like, want to, like, work with the vibrator and the girl and, like, know that, like, you have to close up and be in different positions. Like, most performer men want to be like the spotlight of giving orgasm, not the toy. So they're like Jackie said, they'll definitely, like, want to throw it away. Okay, you're good. You're done?

Yeah. Well, I. I want to ask you as we got some questions. We put this on our Instagram and people want to know, is it normal to get jealous when my partner watches porn, even if he communicates with me? So I get that from women all the time. And people are always getting jealous. I think it's like a threat. They think it's taking.

I don't understand.

I don't understand either. It's a form of entertainment. And, you know, if that, you know, if it's whoever is not the one watching the porn. I'm sure they're masturbating to something.

Would they?

Yeah, to get jealous of whatever it is they're masturbating to, Whether it be the love interest in a book or, you know, whatever it is.

The person at Starbucks who gave them their coffee that morning. Yeah, like, there's just going to be other things anyway. I just think it's about communication and feeling safe and getting rid of shame and all that stuff. Well, here's another one. Like, someone else said, I feel like guys try to reenact porn with non porn stars. How can I compare to a porn star? So I think that's probably from a woman. Yeah, they're probably choking her or they're doing all these things and she's like, I don't want it to be like that. You know, you just got to Talk, Talk about what you do want. That's the problem is a lot of people don't like porn or don't like what they're seeing. They actually don't know how to replace it with what they do. Like, you know, what actually does feel good to me. And I know I just learned that through my own, like, masturbation and figuring it out.

I think found porn that they liked, you know, because if they're, they're turned off by these whatever rougher scenes or whatever it is that they don't like, they might want to explore something more like the Lessa, where it's very natural and maybe show it to that person and say, hey, dude, this is like more my thing than, you know.

So do you have any? Well, first of all, how can we best support adult filmmakers and stars? Is there anything we can do?

I was gonna say you could follow your favorite porn stars and, you know, click their links in their bio, go to your favorite sites like Lessa, and recommend your favorite porn stars. So that way we can fuck for.

Them and fuck for you.

Okay.

How is OnlyFans? How has OnlyFans impacted what you guys are doing? What you both are doing, man?

OnlyFans is like OnlyFans put power in performers hands, which I'm very thankful for. It gave a lot of us opportunity to start producing stuff for ourselves, which kind of like brings more ethical porn to the table, you know, especially like once you work for an ethical company, you realize what you want to produce and you're like, yeah, this makes sense. So OnlyFans, I think, was pretty awesome for performers. Cool.

Yeah.

And Jackie, I just have to ask you because, I mean, we're not in the same industry, but I've been talking about sex for 16 years here. Like, I don't know, did you still get inspired every day? Do you have.

I do. I mean, there's definitely when the steps, the step genre, it sucks your soul dry. And I mean, I was doing that for years and initially I thought it was great, and then I, you know, it just drains you. But I think the industry, the one thing about the industry that I've always noticed is that it definitely. It goes through waves and changes all the time, so it's hard to get really bored because something new is always coming in.

Yes.

Exciting. When new people are always joining the business. So I love my job and I never really feel like I'm in a rut.

You have a great job because this is great service for people too. I think that we, we don't know where to go for information and to learn how to have sex. And I. I love that you guys are creating the kind of work that could really help people and not hurt them, inspire them. Putting power of their own pleasure into their own hands. Okay, I have to ask you both the five questions. They're just quick, quickie questions that we ask all of our guests. They're easy. Don't worry. It's not like a pow. It's not scary. Jackie, I'm going to ask you, what's your biggest turn on kissing? Hannah?

I was gonna say licking, but I think I meant to say kissing because I was like lips and licking. What is that?

Licking is good too, though. Okay, I'm going to. Now, Anna, the second question. Biggest turn off doucherie. Jackie.

Ignoring the clit.

Okay. What makes good sex, Jackie?

Eye contact.

What about you, Anna? Good sex chemistry. Okay. Anna, something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships.

I did pretty good, so.

It'S been pretty, right? Probably stick to that instance.

I love it. What about you, Jackie?

Don't fake your orgasms.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex, Jackie?

That it's different for everyone and there's no one way to have good sex. Depends on who you are and who you're with.

Anna.

Probably that sex doesn't have to be fast. You could take your time. And you don't have to always strangle your partner with your penis. Let them breathe.

Okay, great. Tell me how people can find you.

You can find me on Twitter and Instagram @Jackie St. James. It's J, A, C, K, Y, S, T, J, A, M, E, S, or all of my work on bellesa co.

Or bellesaplus.com Anna, what about you?

You can follow me on Twitter at an A, F, O, triple X or Instagram at Anna. Underscore. Fucking underscore. Fox.

I got it. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate both of you and thanks for the work you're doing.

Thank you.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily and be sure to, like, subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with us. A friend or partner, you can find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter or X and Facebook. It's all Sex with Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email, so sign up on sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. And if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559-TALK SEX. That's 559-825-5739 or just go to sex with emily.com askemily Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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