Beyond the Body Count: Reframing Sexual History in Dating

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Is there such a thing as too many partners or not enough? Why do we even call it body count? And where does that term come from? And more importantly, why does this one little number stir up so much jealousy, insecurity, judgment, and even shame? In this episode of Sex with Emily, we're unpacking all of it. The history, the double standards, and the emotional baggage that still clings to our sexual pasts. We'll look at how purity culture still shows up in our group chats, why women are judged for the same things men are praised for, and whether your number actually matters. When when it comes to love, intimacy and long term Compatibility. So whether you met two people 20, or you've completely lost count, this conversation isn't about judging your past. It's about owning it and figuring out what really matters for the kind of connection you want now. So let's get into it. Joining me today is Dr. Scott Lyons. He's a licensed holistic psychologist, a body based trauma expert, and the author of Addicted to Drama. He's helped over half a million people worldwide break free from stress, trauma and drama with his signature somatic approach. He's also the founder of the Embody Lab, truly the go to platform for learning body based therapies. And if you want to go deeper, use code Sex with Emily for a discount on any program at the Embody Lab.

Let's get into body count. Okay. When you first hear body count, you might think like, how many, how many people died in this certain battle or this war? Like, what was the body count? Right.

Yeah.

Who? Like, if you hear about like a hurricane or a volcano, like something like.

What was the body count?

What was the body count? Like, who died?

Yeah.

So do you know what's happened in recent years when people are talking about the number of sexual partners have. They're like, what's your body count? Which automatically pisses me off because it's like, how many people have you slayed? And like, it's not a good number. The higher the number is, you've slayed a bunch of body count. Like, it just. First of all, it's not sexy and we're using it to, to define people's, to define people's sexual experience. And I just loathe that. A lot of the generations are like, so what's your body count? It's like the first question they have on the date, rather, on a date, rather than like, which is also bad. How many people have you slept with? That's how we used to say back in the day.

But body count, what's your number?

What's your number? Yeah, but body count is already like, like makes it feel like this negative thing. Like, how many people have you slayed?

How many people have you conquested?

Yeah, conquested. I just don't love it at all. No, no. And it upsets me because the same reason why the conversation has always really irked me, because I've seen so much pain and suffering from couples from people dating who are like, my partner asked me what my number was and I told them. And now like, for example, if I said to you, I've slept with 16 people and I'm dating a guy, let's say all he can think about now is 16 dicks in the room with him that I have been with and that he's looking at you. He just sees dicks now behind my head. Sixteen dicks in the room. Like, you can't get that out of your head. And then you make a judgment around it.

I don't know. I think it's hot. But I do know what you mean there. He's gonna make a judgment about it.

Oh, she's been with 16, and I wonder how big they were. Are they bigger than me? And I'm automatically waiting when I answer that question. Gonna make a judgment. It means that you're slutty. It means that you've been with so many. It means that mine isn't big enough. It means that you've. So I always think it's fraught, this conversation. And I'm just gonna pull some gender things here that typically, if a woman has a higher number, there is judgment. Oh, she's been around too much. She's a little bit slutty. She's all these things. And then for a guy too, you're like, oh, he's kind of a player. He's with all these women. And then we also reverse it, and then we feel insecure. We judge somebody if they haven't had as many partners. And every single time in a relationship, I just see this becoming a problem. And I don't think we need to have this conversation. It doesn't even really tell you anything because you're making assumptions that if someone has slept with a lot of people, that it means they're a great lover. If they haven't, it means that they're maybe not as experienced. And I don't know. I've just been with a lot of people who. Who have, like, slept with a lot of women. And I'm telling you, they were not the best lovers. They were the guys who were like, I went around and pounded away a bunch of em, like, jackhammer, and I've done it a lot. But that doesn't mean. Just because you've, like, tasted a lot of different kinds of foods doesn't mean that you're like a chef.

Like, just because you banged away and you've released your semen into a lot of different orifices doesn't mean that makes you a thoughtful, careful lover who was attentive to someone's needs and pays attention and knows how to please. It means I know how to get myself off in any orifice. And I'VE done it many, many times. So I've got a huge body count. Does it mean you're a good lover in bed? No, not necessarily. So the whole thing, I think, should be just thrown out the window. And then they had to start calling it body count, which makes it dark.

Super dark. I mean, that comes from a military background, right?

Yeah.

As we talked about, like, how many people have you destroyed? And somehow we're, like, evolving that into, how many people have you conquested? How many people have you. No. Yeah.

It's so negative.

It's awful.

It's all the things about sex that makes it really feel like, oh, body count. I'm gonna fuck the shit out of her. Like, all the shit people say that's really negative. And death.

Like, I love your voice. And you're like, I'm gonna fuck the shit out of her. I don't know where that voice keeps coming from, but I want more of it.

I don't like. But, no, you are. And I think it's rightfully so. But I don't think most people know where that term comes from. Like, when my niece talked to me about the term body count, I don't think she understands that it comes from, like, that military background of severe violence.

Yeah.

And just even, like, you know, clarifying, like, where it comes from can start to give us a little sense of, like, whoa, maybe we should find some other terminology, if that's even an important question.

I don't think it's an important question. Oh, let me tell you some of these questions that came in from. From our listeners that are just like. Just a. This is just a little potpourri of all the problems that happen. Ready?

Yeah.

This is from Nina, 26, in Seattle. My partner has been with over 20 people, and I' only been with one. I trust him, but I can't help comparing myself or feeling like I'm behind. Is that insecurity normal, or is it something deeper I need to work through? I hear this all the time. So now they had that conversations, which I do not think you need to have. And all she can think is, he's been with 20, I've only been with one. I'm going to show up and he's going to. He's going to see that I've only been with one person, and I'm going to be like a deer in headlights, and he's going to judge me. And this is already automatically doomed. And I don't think that we should be measuring our sexual skill set or prowess on some Arbitrary number that just doesn't really say anything about how you are as a sexual being. You know, Nina could be really present. She could be really in tune with her body. She could be really embodied and be really paying attention to her partner's needs, and it can make her a fantastic lover. But now she's going in with some fear and anxiety, worrying that already before she's naked, she's worried that she's not gonna match up to what he's expecting. And he's probably as happy to be having sex with her. He's not judging her at all. So that's just one of them. Let me just give you the lay of the line.

Give me the lay.

This is another really common one. This is from Jordan, 34, in Los Angeles. Every time I start dating someone, I panic about when the body conversation's gonna come up. I've been with a lot of people. Does that automatically make people think I'm not relationship material? So here's a. On the opposite side of it, saying, I don't want women to think I'm, like, just a player because I've slept with so many people. Right. Then we've got Allie in Brooklyn who says, I've only slept with two people, and both times I felt judged about not being experienced enough. It's like, no matter what your number is, people find a way to shame you, and then you just, like, shut it down. How does that, like, history help? Like, more mystery, less history. I've. This does not go well for anybody. That's just a few of them. Yeah, but there is a gay community question here, and I want to know what you think about this. This is from Tariq. He's 31, in Toronto. I'm gay, and I've had a pretty active sex life, but now I'm dating someone more traditional. He keeps saying things like, you've done everything already. And I'm starting to feel ashamed of my own experience, even though I never did before. So, anyway, do you see all these things based on a number which, like, think about it. Like, I've eaten out in so many restaurants in my life. I'm gonna use another restaurant analogy I've probably been to.

I also love that you said you've eaten out.

Yeah, yeah, I've eaten out, and I've eaten out. But, like, I don't think of myself as an expert. Like, I've had many, many meals. Yeah, let's say I've been to Italian restaurant.

You're not an Italian aficionado?

No, I'm not. Aficionado. I don't remember the pasta from this round or that one. I don't think that I'm particularly a great order. I wouldn't want you. I wouldn't want you to be like, Emily, you order the pasta tonight. Because when I'm eating, I'm present. Whatever. I just think sex is the same way. It's not the kind of thing, like, just because you've. You've eaten a lot of different people.

Ravioli, ravioli, ravioli.

You've slurped a lot of noodles. Doesn't mean. Doesn't say anything about your sexual prowess.

Yeah.

Anyway, what do you think about all this?

I mean, I think, again, like, I'm someone who loves to know, where did something come from?

Okay.

What's the history of it? And I think that, like, illuminates so much. So we stop doing it. Because some of the history of it, like, dates way, way, way, way back before, like, the 20th century, where we're, like, talking about body count. Like, the value of a woman. Literally the financial value of a woman was based on how many people on her sexual activity.

Yeah.

So a virgin is worth more. And, you know, in religion, it's also about, like, a woman. It's always, like, you know, about control here. It's about. In. And often in many religions, it's not just one religion. It was about that they have more higher morality, which was, like, a value that was really, you know, shined upon in religion. And I think that's really important to know is, like, these sources for controlling our bodies, specifically women's bodies.

Female sexuality. Female sexuality, commodity. If she did fewer partners.

Yeah.

And that it was like, it says that women's virginity and sexual purity were closely monitored to control her inheritance, her lineage, and her family honor. So that's why we used to have all these virginity tests that were, like, fake. And, like, if women. Because we. You were partners, a woman had the more high value she was.

We're talking about transgenerational shame here.

Yes.

That is, like, so. I mean, it's all made up. And I think that's so important to know is, like, the idea of body count, the shame around body count, the. Even the cheering of body count. It's all made up. Like, it's constructed out of histories of the different ways that we have controlled people's bodies, specifically women's bodies. And so, like, hopefully, as you're listening to this and you're going, okay, well, I maybe have had that body count, you know, conversation in the past. And you're hearing where its origins come from, maybe there's less desire to have the conversation just based on the origins of it.

Yeah, I think so too. Just. Just knowing that it's like this military term that it means like the number of enemy casualties. It's already setting up sex for like. Like, it's a negative thing if you've had too many. Counted too many bodies.

Yeah, yeah. It's violent and like. And that goes into like, sex as violence as opposed to sex as intimacy. Sex as an opportunity to really connect with people more deeply.

Yeah. It's just a loaded concept with so much ego and shame around it.

So much shame.

And I don't. And. But it comes up again and I think it's a young. No one's asked me in years, like, how you slept with. Yeah, but they used to.

Yeah, but I'm going to be really honest and transparent. When you read the first person's and they said they had 20 partners, what'd.

You say you judged them?

I had like a visceral response in my body where I tightened up and I was like, whoa, that's so important to know. I wouldn't cognitively shame that person. I wouldn't be like. But my body responded viscerally. And that's important to recognize too, is when someone is talking about their sex Life, whether it's one person or 20 people, it's important to register like the subtle cues in our body because that actually is really. It's going to be expressed, right?

Yes. That's a somatics part of it is that because you're so attuned with the work that you do, you automatically notice that your body was reacting. So many of us just override that and are like, just get angry or just have a judgment.

And it comes out in different ways. Like the behavior of that trigger comes out in so many different ways. Like we start judging them for how clean they are in the kitchen or in the bedroom or, you know, something else. It comes out and manifests in all these different inappropriate ways.

Right. No, I love that you said that because automatically your body tends up. Maybe you didn't feel safe or didn't feel like it felt like a judgment. Or is this person. Could this person be someone you know?

Yeah. And I think the. The. That's an important distinction is like, okay, if you know, where does our visceral responses.

To someone's body count come from? And often it's our own shame. Often it's our own sense of needing control. Right. And these things and our insecurities and our own insecurities. Yeah.

Right. And our jealousy.

Yeah.

So it's all of those things.

When was the last time you had a conversation with a partner about body count?

Oh, my God. It's been.

Or let's change the language.

No, about, like, what's your number?

What's your number? Yeah.

I mean, my first time having the conversation, I remember being, like, in my 20s, late 20s, early 20s. I was backpacking through.

Europe with my best friend from college, and we were like, junior or we just graduated. We were seniors, and we were talking about the guys we slept with, and we really were focusing on keeping our number low. So we're like, how many have you slept with? Because it felt. I remember it being like. I was like, oh, I slept with that. I said, well, I didn't really sleep with him, so it doesn't count. I remember it was so important to me keep it to, like, four.

Yeah.

And so at that time, 30 years ago, to keep that number low was really important. So the first time was like. I was like, well, I'm never really gonna tell the real number or whatever. And then. Cause it felt like I knew as a woman I was gonna be judge if my number got. So we kept saying, well, that didn't count. Or that didn't really count. Or I didn't know his name, so it didn't count. Or. Or he didn't ejaculate. It didn't count. So that was the first time I. But then I think after that, I'm trying to think about the last time, because the older you get, like, you just. People don't belt. I don't know. At least in my life, I'm like. I've been single. I've been. I've been having a very prolific dating life.

Yeah.

For most of my life.

Yeah.

So it's my job to have sex. So I don't really judge. I don't really count. But you know what they say about men? They say that men. And this is in heteronormative relationships. Maybe some people in the room can confirm this, that men, they split their number in half and they add 10. They lie.

They lie.

They say they. They're like. They know they step with a hundred, so they split it in half. Or they -10, or they do something. There's some formula.

Yeah.

Because nobody really wants to be that honest about it, but. Yeah. I feel like. Well, especially now doing what I do, sex with Emily. I'm sure there's already a judgment around it, but I'm Trying to remember if it's ever been a problem. But yeah, no, I just kind of lost count after a while.

Do you wish you would have kept like a journal?

I wish I had a sex journal, like of a journal of a journal while the travels of my vagina on the road. I really wish I did. And I could just be like, this happened and that happened and we went here, we met. All these fun little penises and. Or big penises and fun people adventures. I sometimes I wish I do. I have a lot of great memories. I have a lot of great friends if I go back on my photographs. But yeah, sometimes I wish I tracked my sexual experiences more closely.

What do you think you would get out of that?

I think the evolution of like, I'm really into this. 20 years of doing this particular work of focusing on sex that I think to be able to have like this beautiful tapestry of all the lovers and all the experiences would be beautiful. And I probably could compile things together using emails and texts and photographs. So maybe one day I'll just lock myself in my house and do that journey because I have so much information.

Like a quilt.

Like a quilt. Oh my God. Like a sex quilt. A sex quilt of all my lovers. It'd be like Monica Lewinsky in the blue dress. But I might have like some condoms or some weird things or some phone numbers or cards. But I do have some great. I've had some great lovers and experiences and I want people to. And I don't feel any shame about any of it.

And I think this is an important distinction between like really being able to reminisce about the lovers we've had and the experiences we've had versus what's the numbers you've had?

Yeah, right. How were those?

But I would ask a partner that, and I think, like, instead of saying to a partner, what's your number? Or what's your body count? I might say like, what are your favorite. What are your most fond memories of sex in your life?

Yes. What are your favorite turn ons? What are the most. What. What is an important pillar of incredible sex for you? What does great sex look like for you? Like, because think about it. This is literally the question that everyone's asking is, what's your body count? Because they think it's gonna tell them something. And we're all telling you all. It's not gonna tell you anything interesting. So, so wise, Scott, to say another conversation is like, tell me about your turn ons. Tell me about what meaningful sex has looked like for you. What kind of sex do you wanna have in the future that's gonna get us somewhere that's gonna get us more pleasure, more suitable partners, more orgasms. Because the conversation about the body.

And ugly mostly you get insecure, you get jealous, you judge yourself. Like it's genuine like, like how much better of like a genuine curiosity about like are we compatible? And by having more thoughtful questions would allow us to maybe we should do another thing. I have so many ideas. Like something they could download from like smart SX app or something from our community that's like instead of the body count conversation, have this conversation instead.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you had that conversation with partners of like asking them about their history with sex? Yes, you have. And, and, and in a way that was felt really successful.

Yeah. Like definitely in recent years. It's like tell me about what's been some turn ons or what's worked for you in relationships. What hasn't worked for you? How do you like to be approached for sexual. When are you the most? That's the whole sexual intelligence thing. That's my five pillars of sexual IQ is like really knowing like what are your turn ons, what aren't your turn ons, what are your non negotiables, what are your fantasies, what are the things that you like, what don't you like? Giving people permission to really decode it.

But I think there's a big difference between saying that and saying it in context of the actual experience. Like if you were to ask me what my turn ons are and I'm like my turn ons are like really sweet eye contact, we're making love like you're doing with me now and versus like yeah, I had this partner years ago and the way that he looked at me or the way that she looked at me and said my name during sex. So I'm getting more specific about the partner itself. And that's. And that tends to bring up the like the ooh, the feelings, the sensations, the sometimes the judgments or the you know, we turn it in on ourself which is called like retroflection. Right. And so like have you done that where it's like you've talked about your kinks but actually in reference to past partners and should we not.

I don't think we should name names.

Okay.

I don't think we should be like, well my ex. I think it should be like my experience and this is why people.

I love that.

I love that because this is the part about doing like the work that I talk about in Smart sex, the pillars of the work is, like, really getting clear on, like, what I've learned in my sexual history is, like, when I have a partner who stares into my eyes, that was a really meaningful time for me because it made me realize that the second we look into each other's eyes, I felt safe in my body. I was able to sink in. And so I found that a few minutes of, like, breath work and eye gazing gets me turned on. What about you? Like, I wish we could just, like, talk about it that way, because what happens is. And what we're conditioned to is like, if you just said to me, well, my ex, I'd be like, who was his ex?

What's his name?

I'd go online.

You're on Instagram.

I'm on Instagram.

You've befriended them.

He's hotter than me. Like, whatever. And so when you take the names out of it, but you're just giving get valuable information, it's just so much better.

Yeah.

Because we all have the tendency to be like, who's my competition? Who's the ex?

Yeah, who's the. It goes there so quickly.

That's what I want to switch.

I know.

Why don't we. Like, how? I don't know. This is what I'm trying to change.

And I just want to normalize it. So if you're like, again, if you're listening, you've had that experience. They've talked about their exes in with some detail, and you've kind of gone in and created the narrative and the story in your head about it. Even visualized about it. Like you said in the beginning, like, all those dicks roaming around in your head as you're comparing. It's a normal thing. That's what we do as humans. But the trick of it is to pull yourself back to the present moment. So I'm visualizing all the people they've ever been with. Or that. And I start to find myself comparing. Comparing to despair. And the thing to do. You just did it. Take a breath, like, tap on your body. Like, put your fingers and tap on your knees. Bring yourself back to the sensation of the present moment and go, whatever happened then is not now. And come back to the present moment so you can be with your partner now. If you're in their history, you're not with them in the present.

That's really what we want. We really want to be with them now. I guess the highlight of this is to tell you that I think we're asking these questions because they're the only ones. They're the most common ones. And we think they're getting us somewhere by understanding how many people you slept with. But the truth is they don't really get us anywhere. So we're trying to give you some information that could actually move the needle in having the sex life that you actually really want, rather than these questions that sort of blow it apart and could send you on a path of destruction. Destruction for sure. And Also, it says 44% of women have felt shame about their body count. One in three people say they'd be concerned if a partner had 10 or more partners. Men with high body counts are experienced. Women with high body counts are probiscuous. We know that. So why don't we just fucking stop talking about it? We already know that that's what's gonna happen. So I would love to just again, invite people to. To, like. You don't have to answer the question.

Redirect it.

Redirect. Redirect the fucking question that you're having in the moment.

Yeah.

That's what I like to do.

Yeah. And you can get to know so much about your partner. Like, one of our basic needs. Like, one of my basic needs in a friendship, in a romantic relationship is that I feel like I'm known. Right. That feels good. And I don't need to be known through how many people I've slept with. What I could be known about is, like, what has brought me pleasure, what has brought me discomfort, what has been my history in trying to come more into deeper, better sex. But it doesn't have to be the fucking number.

No, forget the number. Forget the number and ditch the number. But lean into really what? Pleasure. Like, what actually feels good to you. So you can communicate that with the partner.

Lean into what you've learned without having to talk about the details. I got that from you today.

Yeah. No, guess.

And that's really helpful. Like, I'm an oversharer. I will retract the details.

Thank you. Good.

And, like, give you the golden nugget of what you can do from what I've learned to give me pleasure.

That's all they really want. Yeah, they don't really want to know.

Nobody wants to know.

No, they want to know. Like, one time I learned, like, and you could even use this to your advantage. Like, God, like, the hottest sex I have was when this. This guy really made me feel seen because he came over and he remembered that I liked kin soda from Erewhon and brought me my favorite chicken. And then he asked about my day and made me feel seen. And then I felt so aroused and turned on that he remembered me.

Like, I just got wet with that story alone.

The erewhon part.

Yeah. And the chicken and asking me how my day is.

But, like, that to me is gonna. Then you'd be like, oh, okay. I guess I better do that stuff.

Ham.

Yeah.

Can we go back to, like, Nina's questions and, like, get, like, let's help them. Let's help them.

Okay, let's help them. So this is Nina, 26, in Seattle. My partner has been with over 20 people, and I've only been with one. I trust him, but I can't help comparing myself or feeling like I'm behind. Is that insecurity normal or is it something deeper? I need to work through both. Okay.

Like, insecurity. I mean, it's helpful to know, like, where does the insecurity come from? Like, is it that he might leave me? Is it that I'm not good enough? Like, unpack. Like, what is the belief? What is the thought underneath the, like, the. The feeling of insecurity.

Right.

And it's normal for us to feel some type when we feel like someone has more experience. Like, if I went to, I don't know, work at a corporate bank, I'm going to be a little insecure. They know more than me about banking. Right, Right. And so either there's a projection that they know more or they have had more experience and know more.

Yeah.

And it's okay to say, like, I don't know. In that moment, I might go invite them to ask their partner, like, what have you learned? And so you each share what you've learned.

Yeah.

And that. So to break apart the insecurity and turn it around.

Yeah. I'm totally with you. I think Nina's got to say, hey, babe, I'm loving our relationship. I'm so excited to, like, for our sex life and to grow. And you know that I've only been with one person, and I know you've been with 20 people, and I just want to call it that. I got some. I got some insecurities around that. It makes you feel a little bit like, oh, you've all these expectations for me, and I just want to be really present to you and see how we could be really great lovers to each other. And I just want to call it. And I think there's something to just saying that. And his response could be like, oh, my God, I'm so attracted to you. We're going to learn this together. It'll be amazing. That might put her mind at ease. Rather than thinking, when she shows up, she just has to perform. Like, that's the kind of stuff I would just call because I don't think there's something she says, is my insecurity normal? Completely. Is it something deeper I need to work through? Yeah, yeah, but work it. Bring him into it. If he's your partner. Yeah, bring him into it and say, this makes me feel weird. I feel weird. Like, I mean, this is so common. Like, I feel like even my ex had been married for 20 years. I'm like, I haven't been married for 20 years. You know, more. I thought he knew more about relationships than I did. Like, I don't know. I just think you got to always just be like, this thing gives me pause, and I want it to talk about it. So I think if she feels seen by him and he's like, oh, babe, no, I just. I'm gonna be present and focused on our sex life. I'm not thinking about the past, and I just want to know what makes you feel good. And I promise to be a great communicator about what I need, because I don't think that great sex is necessarily about the frequency of time you've had sex that's gonna make you a better lover.

Yeah. And I think there's something you're naming so clearly, which is when we're feeling insecure, we want to know that someone can catch us or receive us. And so, like, if I'm even sharing. Hey, Em, sometimes I feel insecure about talking about sex because you're such an expert, and you might say to me, no, no, Scott, you're good. You know, enough. That's not necessarily even catching me, right? It's like, babe, tell me more. Or like, I got you. Do you just want to hug? Do you want to talk about it more? Do you want me to ask questions? Do you want me to. Like, what do you need in relation to this? And it's most often that I'm being heard that you're there for me so that I can just even talk about it.

Yeah.

You know, it's not necessarily that you give me an opposite of what my fear is or my concern is.

I get it. So for this case, maybe what she would want her partner to say, Nina, if she said to him, I'm feeling like I'm a little behind, she might want him to say to her, that's okay. Like, I've got you. I'm not.

I'm here with you in that sense of feeling behind.

Yeah.

What can we do together? What can we do together? Hot. Hot.

So, but here's the problem and here's one of the big things is that there's always, I found there's always people. And it's so interesting because we co create a sex life together. Every person you're with, you're creating a sex life together. It doesn't, that's the thing. It doesn't matter who you've been with in the past because the sex with your past person will never be like the sex with your current person because it's two of you coming together. So if they're coming together to co create that stuff is all in the past. So what can we do together to become great lovers to each other? So let's just have an open dialogue to create this. Forget about the past. What do you need now? What can we do to make each other feel safe?

Yeah. And I would ask her, like, what is your expectation that he has in relation to that 20 people that he knows a lot more, that he knows his way around the body more? Like, what is your preconceived expectations of what is different between the 1 and the 20? And that's important for us to unpack because if, if she were to say, well, I just think he probably knows more techniques than I do.

Yeah.

Then that's something to really like. You know, you can go read Emily's book or like learn techniques or ask him, like, what did you learn exactly?

Like what? Like she could say, my thing is that I have this idea.

Yeah.

My belief is that in these 20 times you've learned all these moves and he might be like, actually I did a lot of missionary and it was pretty interesting, but they weren't all so great. But the connection I feel with you is really hot and I can't wait to explore more things with you. And then you just call it.

And I'm going to say, like, okay, I don't know how many lovers I've had, but I have learned things. Like I've learned certain techniques or things I've gotten to experiment with on past partners. And I might say I have learned things and I get to bring them forward to you in a collection of different things that I've learned and how I'm so excited to be able to offer you and be with you and the things that I've gotten a chance to experiment with, but never, never in the same way I get to do with you.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful way to say It. Because I also think, like, when we're with somebody new, we get to, like, maybe you have more modalities to choose from because you've had more experience. But with every single person, it's like, I don't know, you just. You are all showing up as. With different needs and different desires and I don't know, again, you get to create it together.

Yeah. I mean, this is a good reframe of, like, the someone having multiple partners is an opportunity.

Yes, exactly. It's an opportunity.

And could actually really be a place to learn. Like, I love, like, if you're hiring someone for a job to do, you're like, oh, I like. I love that you've worked in so many other companies. Like, what kind of wisdom can you bring that's going to help this business?

Exactly.

So it's kind of the same thing with sex. Like, how could we reframe this? Like, I love that you've had so many lovers and I haven't. Show me what's up.

Show me what's up. Yeah, yeah.

So I just think that we, again, because of this system we live in, we tend to judge it and it's really. If we just flip it of how could it give me more pleasure and give you more pleasure?

And these are the moments again to pull back the history and go, of course there'd be shame here. It's been passed on from generations, from various, like, religious organizations, from historic culture.

Yes.

And to be like, I don't need to carry that with me.

Yeah, exactly. Because that's. It's really. What it's based on is a patriarchal view of female sexuality and trying to control it. Oh, wow. There's so many other more questions in here that we didn't get to.

Let's see. Wow. I mean, there's so many. Wow. This is a really big issue right now. So we've got Chris in 27 in Denver, says, I told my friends I didn't care about my boyfriend's body count, but when he told me it was over 50, I froze. Now, I don't know if I'm being judgmental or if I'm just not ready.

Okay, first of all, don't judge your freeze. Right. That's already putting shame on top of your trauma response. A trauma response.

Talk about freeze. Yeah. Freeze is. Could you explain that, Scott?

Freeze. Okay. Without getting into too many details around how the physiology of trauma works, but freeze is essentially our evolutionary way of conserving energy. So when we have a reaction that feels like too much for Us, we naturally freeze because we don't have the space, the permission, the time to basically process it or metabolize it. So we freeze. So don't judge the freeze. It just means you need a little more time. You need more, a little space or support to process that information and to, you know, and sometimes a freeze is not even about the current moment. Right. So freeze might be this current moment. Like, I HEAR he had 50 partners. And I already connect that to a moment in high school where someone called me a slut. Right. And the two combined is too much for this moment in time to process. And that's why I freeze. So we never want to judge the freeze. It just is a pathway back to going, I need more time to process this. I need more space, I need more support, and I need to see if there's anything from this current moment that is over. Coupled with the past.

Love that because the freeze is sort of a signal of my body doesn't feel safe right now. This is reminiscent of something else.

Yes.

God, I love that. That is such a great point. The freeze doesn't mean that you need to like, stop. It doesn't mean you need to react.

You don't need to overanalyze the freeze.

Ah, so. Well, here's another one. Lily, 25, in Nashville. I grew up in a really religious household, so my body count is low. I'm okay with that. But I've noticed guys either fetishize it or act like I'm not sexually confident. Can we stop equating numbers with ability?

Sure.

I mean, yeah, that's what we're trying to do.

Let's do it.

Yeah. She notices your body count's low, body count high. Who knows body count? We're not even talking about it after the show today.

Yeah. And I would even say to her, you know, it's interesting that she used the term body count again. And I would say, like, this is the time where we get to stand on a pedestal and stop using and shout out, stop using. Everyone, stop using the term body count. If you need to know more information about someone's sex life, just say, I'd love to know more information about your sex life.

Yeah, I'd love to know what your turn ons are, what you've liked, what you don't like, what have you learned? But you don't need to. The number doesn't. The number of people you slept with does not.

Yeah, let's stop using traumatized language and imposing it on sex.

Yes. I love that so much. Yeah, we know that already leads to insecurity and jealousy and judgment and bias. And it really takes away from like a genuine curiosity about experience or compatibility, which is if we get rid of body count, we can really learn, like, are we actually compatible? But if we like throw in the body count missive, we like miss so much other information. Okay. Truly helpful. This was wonderful. I think body count is just, just dead in the water now.

Bye bye.

Bye bye. Let's talk about pleasure. What actually makes you feel good? We're doing it. Thank you, Dr. Scott.

Thank you, Dr. Emily.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Sex with Emily. If you love the show, please like subscribe and leave it a review wherever you get your podcasts. And hey, share this with a friend or partner. It just might spark something. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, TikTok and X. It's all Sex with Emily. And I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sex with emily.com for free guides, articles and more ways to prioritize your pleasure. Have a question about sex, dating or relationships? Call my hotline 559 Talk Sex. That's 559-855-739 or leave a message@sexwithemily.com Ask and hey, was it good for you? Email me anytime@feedbackexwithemily.com I'd love to hear what you're thinking.

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