Bisexuality & Polyamory w/ Boyslut Zachary Zane

So I went over to his place and I wasn't sure if this was gonna be an orgy or something. I remember like douching my asshole wearing a jock strap underneath my thing. But also, I'm a journalist and trying to be professional. It was not an orgy.

I know. It's our work. You never know if it's personal or business. Right? It's always sometimes all of it. Right?

Especially when I met him half naked in our leather gear and we made out the whole night. You know, it's like, okay, so what is this?

You're listening to Sex with Emily I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Ever wondered if there's more to your sexuality than you ever realized? Or relationship models that challenge everything you're used to? Men's Health and Cosmo sex columnist Zachary Zane has been there as a self proclaimed boy. He's radically open about his journey as a bisexual polyamorous man and tells all. In his forthcoming book Boy A Memoir and Manifesto. He shares how he came to understand his attraction to all gender, his experience living in a polycule, why it's healthy for all of us to get used to rejection, and how bisexuality for men is gaining more visibility. He also helps me answer your questions on exploring bisexuality while in a long term relationship. How to respond if you're in a hetero relationship and your partner tells you they're bisexual, what do you do with that? And how to find casual, no strings attached Sex Intentions with Emily for each episode, I want to start off by setting an intention for the show and I encourage you all to do the same. My intention is to let you listen in on an individual who's taking taken the time to be sexually introspective and what they need to have an overall fulfilling sex life. Whether you're bisexual, straight, queer, polyamorous, monogamous, or something in between, we can all learn from Zachary's self study in understanding your authentic desires. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. My new articles Ask Emily what is a Penis ring and why should I use it and Sexiest Morning routine ever are up at sex with emily.com. check out my YouTube channel, social media and TikTok. It's all at Sex with Emily for more sex tips and advice. And if you want to ask me questions, leave me your questions or message me at sex with emily.com askemily or call my hotline 559-talk-sex or 559-825-5739. Just include your name, your age, where you live and how you listen to the show and you can totally change your name or choose to remain anonymous. Before we get into the show, I want to tell you about something very exciting. If you haven't heard yet, I'm coming out with a book. It is called Smart sex How to boost your sex IQ and own your pleasure. It'll be out June 13th and I would love if you would all pre order the book right now at sex with emily.com pre ordering is a big deal in the book world and it's going to help get the book into as many hands as possible. You can also automatically when you pre order get my new and improved yes no maybe list and be entered to win the smart sex prize pack when you submit your proof of pre order at the link in our show notes. So check that out. Pre order the book. I appreciate all of you. And lastly, this episode is brought to you by Promescent. Promescent is a delay spray and it helps penis owners last up to 64% longer in bed. You just spray it on 10 to 15 minutes before play. It lasts up to an hour, which means your partner's orgasms will increase by 50%. That's amazing. Especially if you're with a vulva owner. And speaking of vulva owners, they also have a warming arousal gel. What's an arousal gel? What means the boost the blood flow to the clitoris for greater arousal. You get this tingling, buzzing, warming sensations. It is so much fun and it gets you in the mood for sex. Like if you're like, I'm not really there yet. Like you rub this on and it's like, hello, I am ready to go. It's Paraben hormone free and basically Promescent is closing the orgasm gap on both sides. Get 15% off your order if you go to promescent.com emily that's p r o m e s cent.com emily for 15 off or just click the link in our show notes. All right everyone, enjoy this episode.

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Zachary Zane is an author, columnist, editor in chief, and sex expert. Most known for his weekly sex advice column Sexplain it at Men's Health. He has provided insight on masculinity, non monogamy, sexual confidence, and the LGBTQ community for publications like Playboy, Cosmopolitan, Vice, and the New York Times, to name just a few. His memoir, Boy Slut comes out on May 9th. Congratulations on your book. I know it comes out just May 9th. Very soon.

Yeah, very soon.

How are you feeling about it? Excited.

Very excited. Now. I think like six months ago, before I had received like any feedback whatsoever, I was like crying over it once a week. Like I was truly freaking out because it is so vulnerable and so personal and it's writing. I think people assume that because I write about raunchy sex and I have this digital zine which is like, has explicit graphic sex, that I'm like an open and vulnerable person. But for me, discussing sex or like raunchy sexual experiences isn't actually that vulnerable versus looking at my relationship with my family or the way that I handle rejection or all the ways that I've accidentally treated my partners poorly in the past. And reflecting on it, like, that's so much more vulnerable for me than writing about my hairy butthole or whatever I'm writing about. You know what I mean? So people kind of mistaken that, like my sexual openness with a vulnerability. And this book, to me is like significantly more vulnerable than anything else I've ever written.

Yeah, well, I think it's really, really brave and I think it's so beautifully written and it's funny. How has your sexual journey shaped who you are today?

It's a big question, but I think it's even influenced me more. Like I created a brand out of my sexuality. You know, my life, as is yours is talking about sex and relationships. And I specifically focus in the realms of bisexuality, sexual fluidity, ethical non monogamy, and then also just like kink positivity and bdsm. But like the fact that I kind of almost created a career out of this was because I did not want to have to live a split life. Like, the reason why I spoke about Bisex. I didn't want to have to ever come out in the workplace. I never wanted to have to lie about what I did this past weekend. I did not want to have to not be open to my colleagues that I have actually a boyfriend and a girlfriend or whatever it is. So I really created a life for myself that allowed me to be so sexually open and so who I am, because I did not want to have the split life.

There's a question that came in and we get this question a lot, so I kind of want to start with that. I would love to get your help answering a lot of our listener questions. And I just think, of course, that really the way you talk about bisexuality is just something that we really need, especially we hear that from men. And so this came in from Josh, 47 in Virginia, and he says, hi, Dr. Emily, I read and enjoyed your recent article about exploring bisexuality. And he says that you said that most people who contacted you with that question were vulva owners. Any speculation why? I've been struggling with the lack of male penis owner by representation. It seems like there's more acknowledgement of female bisexuality, but a lot of people don't think it exists in men. It definitely held me back even after dating bi women. Thanks. And so I feel like that really is your brand and who you are, truly authentically is that you are identify as bisexual. It hasn't been an easy journey, hasn't been accepted, but you've kind of plowed through and really shown through your share your own vulnerability, your own experiences, what it is like being, you know, bisexual. But why is that, like, can you talk about your own journey and kind of like, help us here, help Josh here, help everyone.

The way that we perceive like male bisexuality versus female bisexuality is quite different. And then non binary bisexuality as well. But of course there's this idea that if you're a man and you identify as bisexual, you're using it as a stepping stone on the way to be, you know, full blown gay. And that is beginning to change. I really like the amount of bisexual visibility we had, like 12 years ago when I was struggling with my journey, and Googling it versus what we have now is huge. So I do want to mention that we have come a lot further. There is more visibility now than there is before. But I still think there's this stigma and connotation associated with bisexuality and bisexual men in particular. It's also, I think, partly like, the world is divided often into gay and straight. You know, it's like, there are gay clubs, there are straight clubs. And so for so long, I feel like if you were bisexual but skewed in terms of attraction towards men, you would be like, okay, I'm gay, and that would be the label. And if you're bisexual but, you know, predominantly attracted to women, you would kind of stay in the straight sphere. So people were honestly, because of the way the world was divided, had to pick a lane. And what's been interesting as I write the sex and relationship advice column at Men's Health called Sexplain, it is the number of readers who write in who are, like, used to identify as gay men. And they're in their 40s and 50s, and they'll be like, so I think I'm bi, you know, but when I was coming out 30 years ago, it wasn't a thing. You know, like, it was just people didn't use the word the same way. You know, I'm in an open relationship with my husband, but I feel like if I want to sleep with a woman, I feel like he'll, like, have a panic attack and freak out. So I'm seeing these men who've previously identified as gay being like, I'm actually. Now that the world is no longer as torn into gay and straight, bisexuality is an option. I also think a lot of the stigma still lingering from hiv, specifically for men. There's this idea that, you know, bisexual men who were discreet or on the quote, unquote, down low, were the ones having and spreading hiv. And there is some data and research that supports that a little bit. But, like, one thing that's really important to recognize is there's a difference between a closeted bisexual man and an open bisexual man. And when men who are open and embrace their sexuality are still honestly receiving some of the stigma, as if someone who is closeted and lying about it, when that's actually not the case anymore anymore. Also, some of just the connotations and Stereotypes associated with bisexuals. You know, we're greedy, we're perverted, we're incapable of being monogamous. You know, and in my case, I am greedy, perverted, and incapable of being monogamous. But I think it's also perfect. You know, in that vein, though, it's also important to differentiate between stereotypes that are inherently bad and ones that are just like, bad because we're stereotyping. There's nothing wrong with being slutty. Obviously you don't assume that every bisexual you meet is slutty, but there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with being non monogamous. And this was something I know I struggled with too, where I almost, because there was such little bisexual visibility, I almost wanted to paint the bisexual brand like perf or depict it perfectly being like, I am monogamous and I only want sex with my partner. And I never miss, you know, when I'm having sex with a woman, having sex with a man. But that's not true. And I think what's important is being honest about that and communicative and open about it. Like, I know I will never be satisfied with just one partner of one gender. So I date non monogamous people. I'm very open about being polyamorous and trying to achieve that. There's nothing wrong with that.

I love that you're so open. And that's the thing, is that your book really gives people permission to explore because it's not wrapped up in a nice tight little bow, right? You're like, this is who I am. This is what I've experienced. And I love that you also take people on the journey through your own sexual history from like a young age, realizing who you were attracted to and kind of that your parents were even permissive. And a lot of your book, too, is about unpacking shame. So maybe we could talk about that too, about how you've worked through shame in understanding, you know, your own sexuality.

One of the best ways I was able to overcome sexual shame and what I talk about so much in the book is through finding my community, which is through finding my people, finding my chosen family. I especially being bisexual and feeling like for years I was the only male bisexual in the planet, which of course is absolutely ridiculous. But there wasn't much male bisexual visibility in media and in the people I met and the guys who I knew in college who came out as bi then would come out as gay shortly after. So everyone I actually knew used as a stepping stone. And so I felt so Alone, I felt so isolated. I felt so confused. I felt like I was not part of the community. I felt like when I was with, you know, my gay friends and I kind of brought up women I was dating, I would receive side eye. I didn't feel like they were my people. I also felt like I was closeted to confused when was hanging out with straight people. And what really changed for me is finding a kinky bisexual, polyamorous family and this community in this chosen family that embraces me for all of me. And I don't feel like I'm hiding and that, you know, especially queer people, we really often talk about chosen family. And it really is so important. And I feel like it's honestly become this, like, buzzword and I don't want it to mean that. But like, for me, until I felt like there were others like me, people who accept and embrace all of me, I wouldn't have been able to get over my sexual shame.

The interesting thing that you say too is that it's not even you. A lot of times we point to religion, right? People grew up in a religious background and it's because they, you know, grew up that told you it was wrong or they were gonna go blind or all these things were terrible. But you actually grew up in a very open home. One of your, like, great quotes here from your book was that like, you, you didn't grow up in a homophobic, sex negative household. You grew up in a very liberal, queer, affirming household. And you were still had shame, but you didn't even have the messages from society. You was open, but you. A lot of us are still plagued with shame, right?

It was still. I still had the messages from society, but just not from my parents. And I think that was something that was important for me because a lot of the books that are out, it's often especially like queer memoirs. It's very much like this little gay boy from the south who gets kicked out of his family for being religious and then moves to New York City, finds his chosen family and like, his trauma is valid and important and. But like, as someone who didn't experience all of that, I almost felt like guilty where I was like, wait, why do I have so much sexual shame when I. I have no reason to? And one of the things I wanted to depict in this book is that like, even if you grow up in this queer, affirming, sex positive household, sexual shame is so pervasive and it is so insidious. So even though I had great parents that still didn't combat, you know, what I learned from my teachers, my friends, peers, culture, the media, everything I was reading. And so what I was trying to say was, like, no matter who you are, you do have sexual shame, and it is valid. And maybe just because you didn't get kicked out of your house or experienced some, like, sexual trauma or shaming, you still very likely have sexual shame. That's something that you need to unpack and still work through.

I love the chapter when you talk about the typical questions you get asked as being a bisexual individual, can you share some of those and how you respond? Because those are the questions people ask. I know there's so many of them. Is it a stopover? What's the difference between having sex with a man and a woman? Like, what? People just. There's a lot of questions. They need you.

There's a lot of questions. And I think one of the things I was trying to express in this is, like, something where intent does go a long way. Obviously, you know, you can be good intended and still cause harm. And I'm not necessarily discussing that, but there are other people who are asking me about my bisexuality, especially gay and straight people who are doing so because they almost take this, like, perverse glee and trying to be like you. Someone who proudly identifies as bisexual actually is not bisexual. And let me. Let me get you in a gotcha moment where I'm like, what do you do? Why are you getting so much joy from this? Why do you care? And those people I don't engage with the same way as then the people who are asking me questions because they themselves might be bisexual and might be a little confused. And those people, I will go above and beyond and kind of share a little bit about my experience in the hopes of. In the hopes of helping them. But let me go through.

Yeah, one of them is like, isn't everyone a little bisexual as one? Or I feel like bisexuality is very hip right now.

Yeah, it's. Isn't everyone a little bisexual? And I feel like that can be asked in a couple of ways. It can be like, first of all, gay and straight people who are completely gay and straight don't think everyone is a little bit bisexual. So if you're asking, isn't everyone a little bit bisexual? No, but you might be a little bit bisexual. But also it's a way to diminish your identity, right? Because, oh, you're coming out of something that's important and serious to you as bisexual. And then, let's say your parents or your friend response Is, well, isn't everybody? That's taking away from your moment, that's taking away from what you're expressing yourselves with. So it is a way to kind of diminish your identity in a way that I don't think is cool. One question I get a lot is, are you equally attracted to men and women? I don't love this question because first and foremost, it excludes non binary people. So I feel like the better way to ask this is, are you equally attracted to all genders? And attraction is so hard to parse out and quantify. Like, at times I'm more attracted to men and women. And then if I start sleeping and dating with a lot of men, I miss women. And if I start sleeping with women, I miss trans and non binary people. Then I go back to men. You know, like, there's so many things that go into attraction. That's difficult to answer that. And really what matters is not, am I typically more attracted to men and women? It's am I attracted to you? Like, like, can we have this relationship? Let's say I'm someone who actually, I'll give the example of a friend of mine and she essentially, she's queer and identifies as queer and she's married to a woman. And she goes like, this has been pretty much the only woman I've ever loved. Like, and before, only one I've had sex with. And she's like, I'm bisexual and prefer to date. And I thought I was going to marry a man, but I fell in love with this woman. And at this point, because they're monogamous, why does it matter if she's predominantly attracted to other or predominantly attracted to men? Because she has chosen a life and she's very happy in a life where she's monogamously married to a woman. So there's nothing to really glean from answering that question or really like exploring it. And of course, attractions change over time. Who you may be find yourself more attracted to now might change six months from now or ten years from now.

So true. So what do you think is the most important thing for people who are thinking that they might be bisexual? Like, how would they know? What would be the first step?

One thing I kind of encourage is, and it may sound ironic because I'm someone where the bisexual label has brought me so much joy and clarity and makes me feel so a part of this community. But that wasn't necessarily, that wasn't always the case. And I think one thing I'd wished is I allowed myself to Explore without trying to immediately label myself because I'd be, let's say, hooking up with a man for the first time and I'd be like, well, does this make me gay or straight or bisexual? And just like over analyzing it in my head and to the point I couldn't even enjoy the experience. I couldn't be present in the experience because I was so wrapped up as to what my identity is. So if you're able to explore without feeling the need to label yourself and remembering that, you know, I gave the example of my brother in this, who all of us were very effeminate growing up and there was always gay rumors about us and my two older brothers are straight, I'm the one who is not. But he goes, you know, like I, I explored with a couple guys just because everyone always assumed we were gay and we were open minded and realized that wasn't for me and that makes him 100% straight. Just because you've explored with men doesn't in any way make you any less straight. So you're able to explore with men, figure out if you like it or not. And you know, for me, it took me a lot of exploring with men to get there because I had so much shame and so much confusion. But I do think there's something to be said of, you know, some of the porn you watch I think is honestly a decent indicator of your attraction. Again, it's not a hundred percent, but like if you find yourself gravitating towards gay or porn or if you find yourself repeatedly going back to it. And I think that was the big thing for me. Whereas actually my brother, who helped me realize I was bi when he said I kind of saved the first part of that conversation. The second part was him being like, Zach, you've been experimenting with men for six years. At some point that, that's not exploring or experimenting. At some point that's a stable orientation. He's like, so that's why he was explaining how he experimented, being like, yeah, I tried it for a month, it wasn't for me. But like, in that as much as able to kind of rationalize all of my same sex behaviors and still call myself straight, I really couldn't rationalize that. It's like it had been six years and countless men that's not really straight. And like, what else can I say about that? So I think sometimes time will tell and if you can somehow breathe and relax and not feel the need to clarify immediately what you are, you'll be able to actually embrace the moment and then get a better sense of what your attractions are and how you want.

To identify what for you is great sex these days.

I think great sex honestly comes from a place of, you know, when you have shame. Obviously you can't have great sex. I think actually, well, that's not true. Sometimes there is some elements of shame that can be very hot. But we're not talking about that at the moment. Not eroticizing or fetishizing shame. I'm just talking about general.

The real shame.

But I think for me, I'm in a place where. And what makes sex good for me is just able to so clearly express what my desires are and creating a safe space that they feel comfortable expressing what they're into as well. And I think being me and being as out in public and slutty as I am, people feel so comfortable, I'm sure, with you, to like, telling me every single everything, everything in a way. So I automatically. I kind of created this dynamic. But I think the best part of the sex I have now is just essentially I'm doing what I want. And the more empowered I feel, the more that I enjoy sex. I've noticed that the more that my partners also enjoy sex, I'm lessing my head because we communicated beforehand what their boundaries are, what they're into, what they're not into. I'm not worried about, oh, are they liking this? I know they'll like it. So I think a lot of it is that safety and vulnerability of knowing that, like, oh, I know that they like this. We discussed this. We had this. I'm doing the crazy kink that turns them on. Again, like, I've noticed the more I enjoy it, the more my partners do. And again, this is not advice I would give to everyone. Of course it's different. But a lot of my friends, I'm like, I want you to be more selfish. Now, I'm not saying this to the fuck boy who comes within 30 seconds and doesn't give a fuck about her pleasure. No, that guy needs to be significantly less selfish. But a lot of my friends who I can tell.

You know, the way they talk about, it's like they're so focused on the other person's pleasure, they're so worried that the other person is or is not getting off. And I'm like, honestly, like, what if they're doing the same thing for you? Then both of you, neither of you are having pleasure, and you're both focusing on each other's pleasure, and it's like, like being allowed to enjoy it and embrace it and of course, check in. But like, sometimes with these friends, I'm like, I want you to be more selfish. I want you to say what it is that you can do or what they can do for you, and I want you to enjoy it as well.

So allowing yourself to be selfish in a way.

Would you mind then, Zach, Like, I would love you to give me some examples. It doesn't have to be like, you could change the names and you could change some of the details, but, like, I feel like you are in such a healthy place through sexuality. You've done so much work and if anybody reads your book, you can feel, see that you just give people permission to, like, it all goes and it's all okay in a way that's really, really, like, beautiful and life affirming. And maybe you could give an example of maybe a negotiation that you've been through in recent years in a sexual. Like, maybe you just met somebody. How did you figure out what you were both into and that you were equally giving and receiving? Like, are there any, like, stories you could tell us about how that goes down? Like, I'm always suggesting, you know, if you're getting naked with someone, like, you should already be talking about sex. You're so in it. Like, how. What does that look like, that negotiation?

I. I mean, there's a way to ask it in a way that's fun and not just going over a checklist. Right. Although I definitely have some partners where I'm like, quickly, boundaries, intentions, desires, as we're like, rapidly getting undressed and they're like, I'm into xyz, blah, blah, blah, like, I'm going to X, Y, let's fudge, go. That's, I understand, probably not the most normal thing to do. And that's also someone who's sex positive, knows exactly the language to use. But I always just like to ask what really turns you on. It's such a simple and easy question. And. And from that it really shows like, they'll eventually. Sometimes it takes a little bit more tooth pulling than ideal. And not just because some people are not comfortable expressing it. Some people are so new to it. Honestly, I don't run into that as much anymore because the people I date and meet are all part of this bisexual polyamorous kinky scenes. They're all very comfortable, but with that, you know, if I, if I notice they are nervous, I kind of slow down a lot and being like, hey, well, because especially if they're like, oh, I'm not sure. Whatever you want to do is fine. I'm like, I don't know how true that is, you know? And then I give. You can always give examples. Would do you like getting eaten out? Do you want to. Do you like going down? What type of head do you like receiving? And just like, kind of making it a little bit easier for them to just say, like, oh, I. Yes, I like this. I don't like this.

But I think it's. It's one of those things where if you're not uncomfortable or awkward about it, your partner won't be. And I think because I can approach this from a place of just like, I smile, I ask, I look them in the eyes, hey, what really turns you on? And I don't like. They feel very comfortable and empowered to express this. But unfortunately, if you're like, awkward or uncomfortable about it, often that will create a vibe and they'll be awkward and uncomfortable about it.

Is there a way that you vet partners? We could give people tips to, like, how do you find someone who's going to be sexually open about sex? Like, who's going to be open to have these conversations and not waiting till it's too late? Because I think it's still not commonplace. I mean, again, in like, reading Boy slut, people read this. I feel like you. I feel like it gives you, like, oh, God, well, if he could do that, I could talk about. But we're not there yet. Like, most people are not sharing this stuff.

You can't always know. And I think that's the process of dating. You know what I mean? Sometimes you go on a date and it might take two dates, and then you realize you are sexually incompatible. And that's just kind of a nature of dating. That's one aspect. You weren't compatible. There could have been another aspect. Of course, there we try to avoid that. But it is a delicate balance to walk. You don't want to be overly aggressive and sexual and assume, you know, okay, we've just had one date. What are you into sexually? If you say that on a first date, it's very presumptuous. We're being like, oh, you assume you're gonna me. And it's like, well, no, no, I actually just want to know.

Right. Tricky.

So there is no kind of magic bullet answer. I think if sex is something that's important to you, which it is for a lot of us, I think using potentially apps which kind of prioritize or focus that where you have apps, like, you know, field is a more polyamorous app, but it also, people will list their sexual kinks on it. If you're a particularly kinky person and kink is a really core part of your identity, you should be looking for partners on FetLife. I'm also used to gay and bi male culture, and we are so explicit, partly because we have to be. Because if I go home with a guy and he's an exclusive bottom and I'm an exclusive top, I'm not an exclusive top. I'm verse, for the record, just in case anyone's listening and interested. But, like, do you go home and then what the fuck are you going to do if you're both bottoms? You know what I mean? So, like, it was a matter of almost necessity to be like, oh, my sexual preference is I only bought him and I'm looking for people who top. So we became more comfortable just expressing what it is that we wanted, because we literally had to. And then we have hookup apps as opposed to dating apps. And even Tinder is not like Grindr or in any way, shape or form where we just say it so bluntly, like, hey, I'm looking for a daddy who does xyz. But you know, I didn't exactly answer your question. I think it's because I think you have to feel it out. I think there are certain apps you can explicitly state what you're into sexually, but that's also going to attract some creepy guys. If you say, I'm more of a sub who likes xyz, then you're going to have people who specifically are looking for sex with you. And those guys who claim they're doms, they're not. They know nothing about it. I think it's trial and error, seeing when it feels right to open up. And unfortunately, sometimes you might miss the mark. Sometimes you go on a couple dates, realize you're not sexually compatible, and hopefully you figure it out after two dates and not after six months and give.

Yourself permission to that. That's okay. Like, part of the process is dating people that aren't necessarily sexually compatible, and that's okay. And then learning from those situations. I love that you also talk about rejection. You have a whole chapter on rejection or whole, you know, and it's definitely so much more powerful prevalent right now with a lot of the apps. But can you talk about experiencing rejection, how we can move through rejection and, like, how come it's healthy for us to have a little bit of both?

It's so tough because so much of getting better, I think, at rejecting people and being Rejected yourself is age, unfortunately. I just feel like when you're 19, 20, and it's almost like your sample size isn't as large and it feels like the world is ending because you'll get rejected. And especially when you have this idea of you're looking for this like one person and you have all of this pressure on yourself that you take the rejection even harder because you feel like a failure because you're trying to find this person who's going to be your one man or your monogamous partner or wife or whatever. But I think a lot of the ways I've been able to kind of handle rejection better is number one. And having again this community and this friendship, I feel like if you don't honestly have friends or people who gas you up the same way and all of your self worth is in your romantic relationships and all of your validation comes your romantic or sexual relationships, you're going to take rejection a lot more painfully versus if you have, you know, friends who validate you, who make you feel accepted and loved and welcomed in your family too. Even though, yes, that's not romantic acceptance, still having that kind of safety, safety net is super helpful. And it's a weird thing is over time you kind of realize that nothing changes. And I'm not trying to diminish how painful heartbreak can be. And I kind of go into how like neurophysiologically it actually is very similar. Like how we experience pain physically is like similar things fire in your brain to actually like emotional rejection.

Such a good point though for people to realize that like literally you feel like you are in physical, physical pain when someone rejects you. So of course we avoid it. Right? But we're not. And we can move through it but.

And like I wake up the next day and I'm still me. Yeah, I got rejected. It doesn't matter. And if you can learn again, it's like one of those things my therapist always says it's like you know something but do you know it in your body? And this is one of those things where it's like you know that of course there are a million fish in the sea. You're not everyone's cup of tea. Some people aren't going to like you. Also they have their own going on. It might have nothing to do with you. And while you know that, you don't know it and feel it in your body. But I do think over time it just gets better. But I think it like in terms of practicing, it's, I don't know it's not.

Yeah, no, it's not.

I wish I had an answer.

No, I do.

Do.

I love that you talk about it? Because I feel like it's for us to realize that that's part of it. And if that's what's keeping people from dating and putting themselves out there, I think you have a great perspective on it. And I also love your chapter on therapy because I don't think I go a day without telling somebody, like, the importance of therapy. And you basically give people a list of principles to follow in case they can't find a good therapist, which I love or can't afford one. So what are the important things? First off, what have you learned about yourself in therapies, particularly when it comes to sex and relationships? I think they should just get your book boy Slut to read about it because I just love that you make it so granular for people. But what are the most important things that you've learned in therapy, especially when it comes to sex?

I'm looking at this chapter and I want to pick. Let's see, what am I? Oh, yeah. When you stress issues, I think with regards to sex specifically. With regards to sex specifically. And this is the first one on the list which is figure out what you want and ask for it kindly. It seems so simple, but I think a lot of the times people don't know what they want. And so you have to explore and figure that out. And then people are too afraid to ask what they want because again, they fear that rejection. They fear they're going to be labeled a pervert or disgusting or slutty or loose or whatever it is. But if you can get over that fear of rejection and if again, ask people kindly. And a part of asking people kindly is a gracefully accepting their no and a gracefully rejecting rejection. If it's something where you're not sexually compatible, you do not try to coerce them or manipulate them or do anything like that. You say, okay, great, thanks for letting me know. And then moving on to find someone you are more sexually compatible with. But yeah, for people who are still exploring and new to this, it's try many different things, see what you like, and then learn the best way to ask for what it is that you want. It's simple.

Don't go away. Because when we're back, Zach helps me answer more of your questions around jealousy and exploring your sexuality later in life.

Okay, let's get into your non monogamy journey because I think that we are hearing so much more about non monogamy right now, it's becoming a little bit more accepted. But how did this start for you? And tell me what your, your take on non monogamy is right now. How do we manage this?

Yeah, sure. It almost seems like everyone and their mother is now non monogamous. And I, I just got a new non monogamy column, actually a column, Cosmo.

Congratulations. You're doing so many cool things right now, Zach.

Thank you. I'm trying.

Yeah. Love it.

So I've been non monogamous for about a decade now. And so before everyone and their mother was a little hair flip. No, no, it doesn't matter when you come to it. But it's me looking at all the mistakes I made in my non monogamous journey and what I learned from it and the way I got this column with Cosmo and what I pitched to them is I go right now for all the non monogamous content there is right now. It's all very 101 and introductory. Nearly everything is about how to open up your relationship or how to navigate jealousy. There are still 10 billion issues within a non monogamous relationship when you're in it. I don't have jealousy with my partner. We still struggle with a million other things and those things are not being addressed. So looking at the other things, beyond jealousy, beyond, like time management for people who have been non monogamous for six months, a year, two years, being like, okay, so what are actually their needs and me speaking to them. But let me share a little bit about how I got into my non monogamous journey. And it was actually for the wrong reasons as it was. But I just broken up with my girlfriend. I was already out as bisexual. She was bisexual. And after we were monogamous for a year, once we broke up, I was excited to start hooking up with men again. I was not in a place to date and I made that clear to the men that I would like, see repeatedly. Being like, I just broke up. I'm not trying to date. And two of the guys I was are trying to be monogamous with another boyfriend. But two of the guys who I was seeing both asked me to be monogamous. And the second one was like brought to tears, very angry at me, and I felt bad for him, but I also was kind of pissed. I was like, I was so clear about my intentions from the beginning, about everything I could offer and what gives? Like you were trying to change me when I, I was so clear from the get go. So I decided, you know what? I'm not going to date anyone. I'm just gonna do Grinder hookups that could be in and out of my apartment in a minute flat. I will not validate parking. Like, like that's what it is. And I was actually happy. You know, I think this is idea that if you're having a lot of casual sex, you're not. But at a place I didn't want to date. I like sex is a way I get to meet new people and experience pleasure. So I was very happy. And I knew once I was ready to start dating again, I would. What happened was I met this man at an underground basement at Jacques Cabaret in Boston. And I was there with a couple who I slept with. And they're like, Zach, you must meet this man. He's also bisexual. And so I go over to meet him and it's so awkward because he's like, oh, I'm bi, You're bi too. And like, you don't intro, you don't introduce straight people because they're straight. Even though every well meaning mother likes to introduce their gay son to every gay person they've met. Like, mothers probably shouldn't be doing that as well. But I learned there that he introduced me to his boyfriend and he told me that he had a wife and girlfriend who he lived with at home. And so I pause and I think and I go, are you happy? And he goes, what? I go, are you happy with this relationship dynamic? And he pauses and he thinks about it and he goes, yeah, I really am. And I just started writing at this point and I was like, hey, you know, I write for gay site. I feel like polyamory so misunderstood and underrepresented. I'd love to meet you and your polycule and everyone and potentially do an interview on you. But I learned later he was very impressed with my response because most people hear, oh, you're probably, oh, you have a boyfriend. They're like, oh my God, how do you not get jealous? How do you deal with your time management? And I think I was the first person to kind of ask him like, are you happy? Is this worth it? Because I know this is a lot of work and is it worth the work? So I went over to his place and I wasn't sure if this was going to be an orgy or something. I remember like douching my asshole, wearing a dock strap underneath my thing. But also a journalist and trying to be professional. It was not an orgy.

I know, it's our work. You never know if it's Personal or business, Right. That it's always. Sometimes it's all of it, right?

Especially when I met him half naked in our leather gear and we made out the whole night. You know, it's like, okay, so what is this?

But I actually remember thinking I did not want to be polyamorous after this. I remember seeing how it felt like if one partner got a kiss, the other one partner got a kiss. And the way they did their polyamory was everything needed to be very equal. And I remember seeing this and being like, this just seems like a lot of work. And behind closed doors, there's a lot of communication, a lot of tears. I don't know. This doesn't seem like this happy family that they're projecting. I can tell there's a lot underneath. And I don't. As someone who was trying to avoid work and void serious, like, serious relationships like this and seem right. But I hung out with them because they were super nerdy and geeky, as all polyamorous people are. We played our board games, and they invited me to sex parties. And then the man who had a boyfriend, a wife, and a girlfriend eventually asked me out on a date after like, two, three months of hanging out. And I was actually, again, not in my dating phase, but I said yes because I thought things couldn't get serious. I thought, the man has a boyfriend, a wife, a girlfriend, other secondary tertiary partners, let alone has time to breathe versus date someone seriously. And so I agreed. And a. That's not why one should agree to go on a date with a polyamorous person. You do polyamory because you want more love, not because you want less love, right? But I agreed to do this. The date went well, and before I knew it, I was seeing him a couple times a week, then three times a week, and then. Then he and his boyfriend ended up breaking up, and I ended up moving in, like, four months into dating. He asked me to move in with him and his wife because the girlfriend was moving out. And I was like. At first, I was like. I laughed. I literally laughed. And he was like, why you laugh? I could tell he was hurt. I was like, oh, you were. Oh, no, this is insane. I. I don't want to. Like, how would this work? And, like, I had this fear that, you know, I fall in love with this man, and then, you know, the wife gets a job elsewhere, and then he has to go because it's his wife, and then I'm left just crying in this. I just was so afraid. But then I was like, okay, well, I'll talk to your wife about this first. See. See what she thinks, and then I'll get back to you. And every qualm or worry that I had, they were able to address. When I was like, like, you know, I was like, okay. I had a list of a million questions about, like, how is this going to work? Like, what happens if you guys invite someone over for sex? Like, hey, it's weird in the beginning, but if it's uncomfortable, I'm happy to. To have sex elsewhere with someone else. I'm like, so I have to leave the house if I'm gonna have sex? Like, no, no, it's whatever you feel comfortable. Like, pretty much. No matter what I said, they handled it beautifully. And the answer was always communication. Right? If you're feeling uncomfortable, just express it. If you're jealous, you just express it. We can work through this. We love each other. I love you for him. And I really expected that I'd be able to kind of poke holes in their answers. And then when I couldn't, I was like, oh, I can't logically figure out a way to not do this. I guess I'm moving in with my boyfriend and his wife. And I was 25 at the time, and very much like, the general sentiment of YOLO was in the air. And I was like, you know what? I. I would like to experience this. I know it's not going to be. Or it's probably not going to be forever, and that's okay. This will be a year of my life. And it really was one of the best years of my life that I've ever had and was the healthiest living arrangements that I've ever had. And I'm really happy. I kind of went for it.

What you learn?

I learned how to communicate. I think, like, you just can't. Not with polyamory. I also learned the style of communication that I like, and he was very good. Where I've had partners in the past where if I kind of try to express something, it ends up boiling up into a huge argument in a way where I'm like. Or they kind of go and are quick to pull out, like trauma cards, where they're like, well, you don't. I'm like, oh, oh, Jesus. And now I can't. I can't say anything. And I re. And then I became so afraid of addressing issues, and I've had partners where I'm like, I'm afraid to answer the phone because I don't know what it is. It's going to be about today, and I'm kind of losing my mind a little bit. I want to support you, but I feel like I'm walking around eggshells. This isn't helpful for me. This isn't helpful for you. How are you experiencing this? But he was the first relationship I was in where, like, I just felt I could say something. I was brutally honest to him in a way that I hadn't been with other partners. And it was because of the way that he responded to it. He did not take it personally. He wouldn't lash out. He would admit when he was wrong the way I admitted when I was wrong. So being able to address issues.

More calmly and not having fear about confrontation. And again, this has nothing to do actually with being polyamorous. It just was his personality type. But from that, I'm like, okay, this is what I should look for in a partner.

Were you sexual with the wife too?

So I was not.

How did that work? Because I know.

Okay, so it was also good that she had a another girlfriend who ended up, like, moving in with us at some point.

Sounds like a good time.

Yeah, it was a good time. This is also in Somerville, Massachusetts, which is, like, the one city. It's right next to Cambridge and Boston, but it's like, I think the one city in the US to have, like, legalized, like, multi person relationships.

Okay, so you're in the right place.

It really is that place. I don't know how it works on a federal level. I don't know how you can file taxes, but I think it's more of a just showing their support for polyamory. But some of that was very polyamorous.

I love it.

But. But I think, you know, we all would hang out together, we'd have family dinner, we play games, but, like, we just weren't sexually intimate. And the way it worked is we each had our own bedroom. So it's three bedrooms. And I'd say six days of the week I was spending them with him or five days. And then maybe one week he'd spend with his. One night he'd spend with his wife. One night we just all might spend alone differently. I'm tired, I'm grumpy. I have an early day at work. I don't want you wrestling around in bed. And then also if someone came and slept over, then we had, like, a spare guest room. But I think it kind of worked out because his wife also had another serious girlfriend. So, like, it wasn't. I think if it was just me and she was pining after the attention for her husband, that could have been a lot more challenging. But it's like, as he was experiencing NRE with me, she was experiencing NRE with her new girlfriend. And so it kind of worked out fine. And then all of us would play games together. You know, we have this big happy family.

Oh, my God. Sounds like. I mean, it's communication. At the end of the day, I feel like people in open relationships are polyamory. Spend more time communicating than actually having sex. Which can make the sex less complicated too, because people assume that you're having sex.

Yeah.

They think you're having sex, like all the time. Having good sex. Yeah. What do you think? I know.

Are sorely disappointed when they realize so much of it is about sharing your Google calendar. And.

I thought I was gonna be out and fucking everyone. And then you're like, oh, turns out I'm not actually having that much sex. It's a lot more work. But again, it's. I don't know. And this is maybe a controversial thing to say, but I have a lot of friends now in the poly spaces who I feel I don't want to gatekeep, but I do sometimes question, like, why do you want to be non monogamous? Like, why are you polyamorous? And I have these friends who just like, every step of the way, it is so painful for them, and they're trying to force compersion. They're trying to be happy when their partner goes out on a date with someone else. But they're home, freaking out, texting me, waiting for their partner to come back, and they're getting jealous. And I'm like, what again? Why are you doing this? Like, I feel like in their mind, it makes them more emotionally mature, or they think, oh, I've overcome my insecurities, or I'm more involved. I'm like, there's nothing wrong with being monogamous. Enjoy being monogamous. Obviously work through your insecurities and jealousy. But I sometimes ask them, like, why do you want to be polyamorous? And if they can't really answer that question, almost feel like some people, it's just not for everyone. And that's totally okay. But a lot of people I'm seeing are forcing it right now, and I don't think that's helpful.

It's. I just love what. I love that all the talk about non monogamy, which is what you do in your. Your book and what we're seeing more and more of is that it just gives people permission because monogamy isn't for everybody, so it gives them permission to see how it can actually work. But I think that people can overcome jealousy too, if they want to, or manage their jealousy. I don't know that you overcome it. You. What do you think?

It's tough because a part of me is like, if you're monogamous and you don't have to work on your jealousy because your partner is someone who just like, does not cheat, does not flirt, it's like, okay, that does work. You've put yourself in a situation where you're not really going to be jealous and that's okay. But then another part of me is like, well, you're not dealing with the issues straight on. You're kind of avoiding it, but you're happy doing what you're doing. So part of me is like, live and let live. I'm not sure.

Well, I actually have a question here that kind of addresses some of this stuff here. This is from Abby, 24, Michigan. Hey Dr. Emily. I love listening to your podcast. It's helped me be more open minded sexually. I've been married for three years and been with my husband for over five now. Before we were even thinking of getting engaged, he told me he may have thought he was bisexual. He said he didn't really feel the need to explore the side of him since he was with me and I was fine. It didn't bother me. Well, it didn't come up again until recently. If I'm being honest, I kind of forgot. So she blocked it. But he told some LGBTQ friends he thought he was bisexual. She said, I'm totally fine, he told her friends, and I'm really happy. He felt safe to tell him that my problem is my own insecurity. Since the first time he mentions bisexuality, I have known five, yes, five people to leave marriages or long term relationships due to their sexuality. And her examples are it started with a partner saying they were bisexual and then shortly after realizing they're actually gay. My husband loves me, he's committed to me and I believe him, but I am freaked out in all caps. I won't be good enough. He'll want to explore something with a man. I don't feel I'm open to an open relationship either, so that doesn't feel like a solution. I love him and I married him because I want to be with him forever. How do I work through my own securities? Thanks. Can't wait to hear your answer.

I think first of all, those feelings are normal, right? I feel like, especially when You've heard horror stories of men coming out as bi and then leaving their wives or coming out as gay shortly after. It's going to be very challenging, even though you love and trust your husband, to not get a little bit anxious. And I think one thing to potentially ask him is, what does this mean for us? Why are you telling me that you are bisexual? Is it because, hey, I want to share everything with my wife, and I love her, and I want to embrace this aspect of who I am, and I want you to love me for who I am and not feel like I'm hiding. And maybe I want to watch RuPaul's Drag Race and I want to comment on how hot these guys are together. Or is he saying this because he wants to explore, because he wants to open up the relationship? And the truth of the matter is, he might want to. And I know that's not going to make you feel better, but like a lot of men, when they realize they are bisexual, and women, too, when they realize they are bisexual, do want to explore. And it might. I know this is depressing. It might end up with you amiably breaking up because he needs to explore the side of his identity. But what you can do in the meantime is just ask. Is literally ask, being like, hey, I'm worried. I know you say you love me, but you've been coming out. I want to support you. And I know this. I'm not someone who really can see myself in an open relationship, but I'm worried that eventually you'll want to open up or you'll feel this need to connect with a man. What are you feeling? And please be honest with me, because his gut response might be to lie and to be. Not, like, negatively, but just like, oh, no, no, honey, it's you. It's always you. But, like, giving him the space to be honest about it. But, like, unfortunately, you're going to have to live with some of this insecurity and ambiguity for the time being, which I know is terrible, but I think just having repeat conversations with him about what this means, how he's feeling, I can give the example of what. My first girlfriend, when I came out after, is bi. And I was actually very jealous. And I can answer how to get over your jealousy in a moment and work through it, but I was actually extremely jealous, and she was not. We were both bi. And our agreement essentially was she was like, eventually, at some point, I'd like to open up this relationship. Not yet. And probably every three months, we would just check in, being like, hey. She'd be like, how much do you miss sleeping with guys? I'd be like, I miss it, but not enough to open up, open up our relationship. Ask her how much you miss sleeping with women. I miss it, but not enough to open up this can of worms. I'm like, okay, let's reassess in three months. And we did that, and eventually we broke up after about a year, before we ever reached that point. We were kind of waiting to cross that bridge when it comes. And I think that might be something you're gonna have to do. And I know that that's not the certainty that you want from this, but that is the reality of it. Moving on, to answer your question about jealousy, I think one thing that's important is jealousy in and of itself is not a bad emotion. It is a neutral emotion, and it's usually trying to tell you something. So I'm feeling jealous because I am afraid that this person is going to leave me for another person. Okay? So I need to work on my abandonment issues or I need to seek more reassurance from my partner. And also, sometimes you're being jealous because your partner's being an asshole. And that's also valid too. You know what I mean? It's not always you, but if you can get to the root of your jealousy, is it because I've put on a lot of weight recently and my partner started dating someone who has my old body type, and this is really triggering me, making me feel insecure that he no longer loves me? And really, whatever. Getting to the root of what this jealousy is trying to tell you and then tackling at the root. And again, just being honest about it, there's nothing wrong with feeling, wanting some reassurance from your partner. But when we feel. When we lash out and get angry because we're jealous, or we blame our partner, or we go inward and we're sad and we think that we're this terrible person or this insecure person for being jealous. That's what becomes an issue. But jealousy is just like any other emotion, I think, really just getting to the root of it can really help you tackle. Tackle why you're feeling jealous and respond to it and have your partner help you with your jealousy.

I love that jealousy is. It's so true that jealousy can be such a great learning tool too, because usually if you look at we're jealous or we're envy of, it's telling us kind of what we want too. It's kind of telling us more about ourselves in many ways. Too. Or. Or about. It's our reaction to something. So yeah, maybe if it's about just whatever. Even in life, if you experience jealousy towards a person or envy, usually it's a message for ourselves. It's not necessarily about what someone's doing to you. It's about our own relation to now that someone could be an asshole too to you. And they're showing you signs that. Maybe there are signs that they're. There's cheating or whatever, but that's still something that you need to get into with the person and talk to them about it. But a lot of times our jealousy, if the person's not being an asshole, they're just. You're in a relationship. It's about us really. It's our own. It's our own work we have to do and communicate for sure. The other thing I want to say, going back to Abby really quickly, who our married friend with the husband is. What I just to sum that up, I love that you said that. It's like a healthy way of saying that she doesn't have to solve it all now, but. But to continue. Maybe it's every three months. Cause I think that couples have these conversations once and then they never go back to it. Or they're like, I think I heard my partner. Exactly. You gotta keep revisiting it. Maybe it's once a month. You have a set schedule where you are addressing these situations right now. Addressing it with your partner all the time. I like having couples having a. Once a week, a check in, like having that. They're like, we're gonna talk for 10 minutes a week on the state of our relationship. I know people in open relationships probably do that more. But I think that we all.

It's so helpful to avoid things boiling up and bubbling over or just, you know, spiraling in your own head and getting so anxious that by the time you've actually addressed the partner, like something that was probably a miscommunication has then exploded in your mind and you're like, how did we get here? No, those. Those check ins, I feel like are so helpful. And I try to do them with my partners too.

I love that it's all communication, really healthy communication. And I love that also in your book, Boyce thought you demonstrate the conversations and how to do it, which is really helpful. We're not just telling people to communicate. Kind of drilling down and showing your real life examples and through your own vulnerabilities how you've done that, which I think is so helpful.

Yeah, I think it's always. I always try to give. Instead of just saying communication, I try to give. Like, here's a script potentially for it because again, figuring out what type of communication works for you and matching up with someone who also shares that similar type of communication.

Yeah, it's a skill set for sure. Okay, I have one last question for us. This is from Sarah 30, Canada. Hi Dr. Emily. I've been listening for two years. I've gotten a lot out of it. Like a lot of people contact you. I grew up in an incredibly religious home in a small town. Over the last few years, I found myself more drawn to women. And when I think of the future now, I think I can see myself with a man or woman. I haven't been much of a long term dater before. I've only had a couple of longer relationships. But now I feel like I need to figure out myself since my sexuality wasn't something on my mind before. So where to start? Do I go to a queer bar or event and if someone's interested in me, do I let them know I've never been with a woman before? Do I just put it on the apps that I want to experiment and figure myself out or that I've only been with men? I'd like to change that. She says, do you think that women who already know who they are would be interested in someone who's just trying to figure themselves out in their 30s? So what I love about this is first she's just saying like, how do I do it? How do I address it? And have I already missed the boat? Am I too late? Like, I think that when me all of these messages, like, I've missed it. No one's going to want me. Something's wrong with me sexually. Right. All these, she like just kind of encapsulated a lot of the anks that we, a lot of us have about sexuality and exploring.

Yeah. I'll start by saying it's never too late. And I really do firmly believe that. I think what might be helpful for you specifically is because often, sometimes people ask me, like, do I put I'm bisexual on my dating profile? And I always say yes because even though you weed out significantly more people, it's the number of times I put on a date with someone on the second, third date, I come out as bi and then I'm immediately ghosted. And so I think you should not put that you're bisexual, but I think you should do it on dating apps and just say like, hey, I'm new to my sexuality and I'm exploring dating with women. Would love to meet up, frame it better than that. But like I think something where you explicitly state that and yes, you're going to get fewer matches, but that's the point. You want to match with someone who's clearly okay with this or someone else who's also new to exploring their sexuality and is excited to do it with you. So I think if you're actually more direct about it in the beginning, even before you match with people, that's gonna kind of lessen the anxiety because you know by the time they've matched with you, you know they're okay with this. So that'd be my advice.

That's great. It's so true. It's like we think that we're so afraid of, of stating what we want because you are going to reject us. But those people are doing you a favor. Like you don't want to be with them. That's how you're weeding everything out. Yes. Go to places where you're fighting other open minded people and you start to, you know, if you have any friends who are bisexual or dating other women, I think it just takes community and maybe it's going to one party where you feel like people might be a little bit more open and then you'll meet someone there and they'll lead.

And there's nothing wrong if you're meeting someone out and about. I know. Let's say you're flirting or another girl's flirting with you at a bar and you get her number for a date. Just be like, hey, just a heads up, I'm actually pretty new to dating women. I just wanna make sure you're comfortable.

With that, Honest with it. Yeah, you don't. No one's expecting you to be more experienced than you are at different places than you're at where you're at now. Be real and honest. Yeah, I love it. Zachary Zane, thank you so much for being here. I have to ask you the five quickie questions we ask all of our guests and then we'll get into where people can find you. Okay, ready? Just quick, what's your biggest turn on?

Oh my goodness.

It's quick though.

It's like asking me what's my favorite child.

I love all of them. My biggest turn on is confidence.

Biggest turn off, Can I say not confidence?

No. Biggest turn off is people who do not know what they want. Yes.

What makes good sex?

Being able to openly articulate what you want without shame. And being open to other people's experiences too.

Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships.

Oh, it's gonna be awesome. I know you're struggling a lot right now, but don't worry, it will get better.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex?

Oh, there's no one way to have it. It's have sex however you want to have it. And whether that means you don't have sex at all because you don't enjoy it and you're asexual, or you like having sex any day that ends with with the word day in it, own it. There's no one way to do it. The key is just finding someone else who shares similar desires or lack of desires to you.

Thank you so much. Zach. How can people find you and your book and all the great work you're doing?

Yes. So there it is. Hold on. Where did I put it? I always have it.

Oh my God. I have it for you. Here it's. Thank you.

So. Zacharyzane.com you can buy the book. Book. Just type in boy slut one word. It is everywhere. Buy it at any book shop. You can buy it on Amazon. And please tell all of your friends. Please tell everyone. But you also can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Zachary Zane Underscore. I also have a book tour that's going to be in May and June. I'll be in la, sf, New York, Chicago, Boston, Nashville, all over. So if you head to my website, I can hopefully be in a city near you. If not, I also have a lot of virtual book tours as well. So no matter where you are, you can listen in.

Oh my God. Amazing. Thank you. We'll put that all in the show notes. And thank you just for your honesty in your book and really for your writing it. Just really helping people feel safe. I think you're gonna help people, like get rid of their shame and feel really great about exploring and having better sex. So thank you for being here.

Thank you, thank you.

So nice to meet you. Yeah. Thank you. You too. Thanks.

Foreign.

That'S it for today's episode. See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at Sex with Emily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email. So sign up at sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559-talksex. That's 559-825-5739 or go to sexwithemily.com askemily Special thanks to Acast for powering the Sex with Emily podcast. Was it good for you? Email me feedback back at sex with emily.com.

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