Dating Younger Men, Canceling Threesomes: Emily Tells All

Another question that came in is somebody said, can you talk about your decision to be single and to not have children? And I want to tack one other little thing on there, which is that in your 50s, for the first time in your life, you decided to live with a partner.

So could you just talk about sitting.

In our living room as much as you're comfortable?

I can talk about all of these things. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation. Conversation around sex. So how did you discover who you were as a sexual being? Are you still figuring it out? Your desires, your sexual turn ons, your overall attitude towards sex itself? Well, today we're doing something a little different. I'm answering all those questions and letting you in on my sexual journey. That's right. I've got author, anthropologist, and my dear friend Dr. Wednesday Martin on the show today as we turn the tables and let her ask me how my career as a sex educator got started the first time I had legitimately good sex, and how my relationship with sex has evolved. I also share the backstory behind this podcast, why I was so curious to launch a career in sex education in the first place. And it's all led up to my book, Smart Sex, which comes out next week. So listen in. This is a juicy one. Intentions with Emily for each episode, I want to start off by setting an intention for the show and I encourage you to do the same. My intention is to open up and share with you what it's been like for me over the years and learning about sex and who I am as a sexual person. I really hope this conversation inspires you to ask yourself the same questions because it's an area of life where you never stop growing. Hope this inspires you as much as you all inspire me every day. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. Buy new articles, your guide to mutual masturbation and how to train your vagina are up at sex with emily.com check out my YouTube channel, social media and TikTok it's all sex with Emily for more sex tips and advice. And if you want to ask me questions, leave me your questions or message me at sex with emily.com askemily or call my hotline 559-talk-sex or 559-825-5739 and just include your name, your age, where you live, and how you listen to the show. All right, I am going on a book tour this is my partial tour. I hope you'll join me. I have a live event in New York on June 13, which is gonna be so fun. I never get to meet you all in person. We're gonna answer questions, Q and A's, we're gonna talk. I can't wait to see you there. Virtually. This one I'm really excited about. It's on June 15th via Crowdcast, which means that wherever you live in the world, we're gonna have an intimate conversation. Join me on there, buy your ticket, your ticket includes a book and I'll be in the San Francisco bay area on June 17. Also, if you want me to come speak in your town, in your place, to your organization, you can just email me feedbackexwithenley.com because we're just getting started here. Can't wait to meet you guys face to face. Answer all your Q&As in person. So when you buy a ticket, you'll automatically get a copy of my new book, Smart Sex. And we have an article on our site with all this info, which you can also find in the show notes. I'll see you all next week. I can't wait. Lastly, this episode is brought to you by Promescent. So I'm reflecting on my experiences with sex in this episode, both in my career and my personal life. And Promescent, well, they've been part of most of that journey. Their founder, Jeff Abraham, I probably met him over 10 years ago. He's been on the show many times. One of my longtime supporters, I'm one of his and he has been so innovative with this company, Promescent. Truly. If anyone is looking to delay their orgasms, I always direct them to Promescent, nowhere else. Their delay spray helps penis owners last up to 64% longer in bed. It's long lasting, it doesn't transfer to your partner. And they also have this incredible warming arousal gel for vulva owners, which I love to put on before partnered sex, solo sex, or even during the day just for some tingle. It feels really, really good. Promescent has been a longtime supporter of sex with Emily. And if you want to support them and have better sex while doing it, well, go to Promescent.com Emily Save 15% off your order. That's P R O M E S C-E-N-T.com Emily or just click the link in the show notes for 15% off your off. All right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

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Wednesday. Martin is an author, cultural critic and researcher most known for her book why Nearly Everything We Believe About Women, Lust and Infidelity is Wrong and How the New Science Can Set Us Free and her number one bestselling memoir, Primates of Park Avenue, a hilarious, touching and insightful look into the exotic world of Manhattan motherhood. She's provided insights on topics including gender, parenting and motherhood, popular culture and female sexuality for the New York Times, the Atlantic, the Daily Beast, and Harper's Bazaar, among others. She's also a very dear friend of mine. I love this woman and you can find her Wednesday Martin, PhD on Instagram.

Dr. Emily Morse. My hero. I could not be more excited or honored about two things. First of all, this is our third show together, right? You interviewed me on Sirius Radio when Untrue came out. Then you and I did a rockin podcast episode where I was the guest and we talked about my open marriage and other fun things. Now you are so open minded when I made this suggestion, hey, what about I interview you? You're beloved, but I don't know that everybody knows you the way I know you. And there's so much curiosity about who you are as a person, and you were so game, and you said, yes, you can interview me about myself. So this is so great, because you're the guest on Sex with Emily. Welcome to sex with Emily, Dr. Emily Morse.

Thank you, Dr. Windsor Martin. It is good to be here on the show. This is a first, and I'm so grateful for you, because when you suggested that to me, I thought, no one's ever interviewed me before, and I can't think of anyone else that I would rather do it than you. You are such a good friend, and you're brilliant and so full of love and support. And so I figured, why not? Why not be a guest? This is the least prepared I've ever been for a show.

Oh, my gosh. I think it's great to be unprepared for certain things. And we have something to really celebrate and talk about on the show. I want to talk about two things. I want people to know Emily Morse better, and a bunch of followers sent me questions. And I also want to talk about this huge achievement, which is your book, which is really the culmination of 20 years of sexpertise. But as a person who was so lucky that I got an advance copy of the book, which I read like crazy, I want you to see all the pages folded down like, I'm a sex fort, too. But I needed this. And what I love about this book is, is how the you I know comes through. This book is compassionate. This book is nice. This book is smart, and this book is so helpful. So congratulations on the book.

Thank you.

And I just want to start, if we could, with how we got to this moment, how you got to this point where you said, it's time to write this book. You are the OG sex podcaster. So I want to take us back in time a little bit because this book is intimately connected to your career as the first sex podcaster in the United States. How did Sex with Emily start?

That's a really great question. It started Wednesday with this curiosity and confusion I personally had around sex and relationships and dating. I was 35 years old. I've been in a series of relationships, some committed, and then I kind of was playing around with some, you know, open relationships. And I just thought, what? How do you keep relationships interesting for the long haul? And while doing so, how do you keep sex going? It seemed that sex in so many relationships, including mine, when I was in a relationship about six to nine months in, the sex ceased to be incredible anymore. It seems to be great and interesting. And I thought, well, if the sex isn't great anymore, that means the relationship should be over. I had none of the skills that I teach today. So I sit on a journey. I was faking orgasms. I was faking full on for, like, pleasure. And I thought, I really want to understand relationships so I can make an educated decision myself about what kind of relationship I want to be in. I thought something was wrong with me, that I didn't want the traditional monogamous relationship as everyone else. So it was the first year of podcasting. I. I had heard about podcasting through an intern I had on a film I had made. You know, I said, I really want to interview people about sex. She said, you should try podcasting. And I love the fact that it was. There was no cameras at the time and it was audio, and I just thought, I'm going to start there. And I started interviewing people about their sex lives and their relationships. And I realized after that very first show that this was going to be my path. I thought, this is it. We all need these answers. I need these answers. And people were so open, and people were still searching for answers. There wasn't a lot of information out there. So that's the story.

You really felt it after the first podcast. This is my calling now. I want to go back in time just a little bit more because it's so amazing and inspiring that you say that your career started with a problem.

An apparently personal problem, but then you probably realized that it was like a vast cultural problem, our really messed up relationship to sex in our culture. And I love the specifics that you're hitting like that women do tend to get bored in an exclusive cohabiting relationship before men do in the aggregate. And I love that you're hitting on the fact that you faked orgasms, which there's a whole thing on Instagram and TikTok about it now, and shaming women for it. We need to get back to all that. But first of all, it wasn't just that you had a problem. You were a highly educated person in precisely these fields. With the problem, can you explain your academic background? Yes. And why, you know, how you decided to do that? Okay. And why. Why didn't it help you with your sex life automatically?

Well, my background was I had a degree in psychology and political science.

We both went to the University of Michigan.

That's right. Go blue. That's right.

So I.

My career path. So when I got graduated from Michigan, I drove from Ann Arbor to San Francisco in my little Geoprism car to work, just so I can see it. Can you imagine this little red geoprism, which I think is a funny little car? They don't think they make them anymore, which is probably a good thing. But I drove out there to work politics. I wanted to work for women. There wasn't a lot of women in office at the time. And then when I started the podcast in 2005, I didn't have any degrees in sex, so I went back to grad school and got my doctorate in human sexuality. I went back in 2009 while I was doing the show, because people were asking me questions, and while I had read every sex book, I was reading every sex book, interviewing people, and had.

A great background in psychology, which is another beautiful thing you bring.

But it didn't give me the academics, the credibility, the experience.

You wanted the credentials.

I wanted the credentials.

Right, exactly.

So back to grad school and got that. So I started in 2009 and I got my degree in 2012.

There is a whole thing going on on Instagram that's insane, where I literally cannot say sex. And a lot of us can't. We get shadow banned. We get taken out of the algorithm. And it's not just bad for our careers, it's really bad because people can't then learn about our messaging and about positive messaging about sex. But you know all this. But plus a change, right? Because I think you faced. We're facing some of the same stuff 20 years ago.

What. What was it like to be the.

First podcast in America about sex? What were the responses like? And did you get censored?

That was the amazing thing about podcasting is that there was no censorship, that I could just do a podcast and say whatever I wanted. So that was like the freedom in that. And I think because it was probably one of the first podcasts and it was about sex, people were interested in it. And he kept listening and emailing, and so there was no censorship. But then soon after that, I got a show on the radio on live radio, on Free fm. It was an FM talk station, CBS Radio, in San Francisco. And that was about a year into my podcast. They said, do you want to come in on Saturday nights and do a live radio show? And I'd never been on the radio before. I didn't have experience in radio, but I loved. They were like, here's what you do. And it was 11 o' clock at night. So it was what they called the safe harbor, where that's like when loveline was on where you could say safe. Some things you still couldn't swear, but you had a little bit more freedom to say a few more words that were, you know, like, I could say masturbation. I could never say. I don't think I could say penis. I could only say it once every hour. I can only say masturbation once ever. So I was definitely censored. And there's something called a dump button. So whenever you do say, like, if sometimes I go fuck, and they, like, dump me, like, you get in trouble, but they run out of dump tape. And what happened was I kept getting dumped because I would say masturbation. I'd say, why can't I say masturbation? They dumped me again. And you could. There were certain things, and you could only say it, like, once every hour. So then I had to come up with all this stuff because I was doing a masturbation.

So.

And I was like, well, when you're bopping the baloney, when you're. When you're twiddling the bean or whatever, all that, I had this whole thing of.

You had, like, a list of euphemisms that were okay because you literally couldn't use the accurate.

Right.

Terms.

Exactly.

You had to be so creative.

You'd be very creative. And I. And I think, you know, I. I guess I backlight. Maybe I go into a crowd, be like, oh, what does she do? And they make judgments around somebody who talks about sex. But, I mean, that's the thing about podcasting is there's so much freedom in it. It took me a while to learn how to make a living doing it, and that probably took me about five, six years. I did everything for free. I wrote for free for different columns and different magazines and spoke for free. You know, that is just kind of like giving back and being like, well, maybe eventually there'll be. Some people would also tell me that I needed to change the name of the show because I'll never get a sponsor and it won't work and sex and all that. So it was very much censored in those ways. And what. I still can't believe that in 2023, we are still facing some of the very same challenges.

20 years. And you cannot say a lot of stuff on Instagram, on TikTok. It's a huge risk to be accurate.

Yes.

But you know what? Thank you for paving the way. I mean, there are so many sex and relationship podcasts now, and you were really a trailblazer, and I just want people to understand that about you, how tough that was, how brave that was. And I think a lot of people look at you, look at us, and we're like these nice Midwestern girls, and we're people pleasers. You and I have that in common. Although I always say that you're nicer than I am. But I think that people really need to understand how tough you were and how brave to do that and how it opened the way for so many, really, literally hundreds of relationship podcasts. They wouldn't be here if it weren't for you. So I just want to say thank you.

Thank you for saying that at the time, there really wasn't anyone to go to. There was Dr. Ruth and Kinsey Institute, but there really wasn't right there at the time. And so now I love that there's so many young people who are interested, and there is a little bit less shame around it. Maybe not on social media, but I.

Think that we live in a bubble. We live in a bubble.

We do.

A relatively shameless bubble. But like we're talking about, we come up against the culture at large that is still so incredibly messed up about this. And you slipped around it. Okay, I have a deeper question about why you went into the study of sexuality. What were the childhood attitudes around you about sexuality? Was there a lot of communication about it? Was it a mystery?

There wasn't a lot of communication around it. It was more like. And I didn't have a lot of the shame, which I like. I didn't grow up in an environment where it wasn't okay to be sex. There just wasn't a lot of information about sex.

And let me set the scene a little bit for people. You grew up in the Midwest, in a suburb of Detroit. You're from a Jewish family. Culture and ecology always plays into our relationship with sexuality. I have met your mom, and she seems like a pretty open person. But in your book, you get into a little bit how you had a. An encounter with your mom about. Yeah, well, one of the things we don't want to give away too much about this incredible book. There's one really cool part about something that happens.

Okay, we'll let people read that part about it. Parents are cool and open.

Many are.

But yet they still don't know how to talk to their kids about sex. Even in 2023. I talked to a lot of friends who have kids, and, you know, this, too. It's very hard to know what are the right things to say to kids today, because I think that parents didn't have the Education around it. And so they don't want to be the one home where their kids are going home to their friends and saying, like, you know, so and so's mom or, you know, said this about sex. And I'm the. They're the ones who are teaching the kids everything. So I think parents are still very confused about. But back then, I think my mom said to me, if you have any questions about sex, ask me. And I think that. That a lot of parents take that standstill. And the challenge around that is kids don't really know the questions to ask or they think they know everything.

Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I mean, as a mom, I encountered this issue early on. And, you know, I have a funny story to share, which is that one of my kids, I won't tell you which one, you know, was in the process of learning to read. And I got my kids this book that a girlfriend of mine recommended. She's a real free spirit. And it was. I think the book was called It's Perfectly Normal. And I just put it in my kid's room, right? My kid who was in the process of learning to read. Literally 20 minutes later, my kid comes out with the book open in his hands.

He goes, mom, this is the best book I've ever read.

He was into it. How old is he? Well, you know, learning to read was a process, but he must have been about seven at the time when it all starts to come together. So maybe he was a little older. And it was the way I got him interested in reading was to help him get some positive messages about sexuality. I have made so many mistakes as.

A parent, but, like, I felt like.

That was a good one. So my strategy was just to have books around so my kids could pick them up and that maybe could spark a conversation. But, you know, I love. I love your point that it might not necessarily be enough to say any questions you have ask me, because kids don't necessarily know the question.

I wouldn't have known the questions, but. And also the information that's out there is. Is a lot kind of. Kind of misleading. And I. The thing that I also find with kids today, a lot of young women who I talk to and men, but, like, they'll say, oh, maybe they're 15 or 18. Like, this is more like friends, kids. Or they'll say, oh, how do I. Like, if they're with men, like, how do I give a good blow job? Or how do I. How do I. Basically, it's. How do I please a partner and I think when they finally get the courage to ask a question, they want to know about how do I perform, how I do this thing. So that's what concerns me is that even if they do have the questions, once they get up the nerve or once they find someone to talk to, they're not asking is like, how do I have more pleasure? How do I experience joy and pleasure? Because I know for me, one of my problems around sex was that I didn't have a lot of pleasure. It felt. I loved the kissing and the making out and the foreplay, but actual penetration, which is what sex is so centered around and what I try to change in smart sex and in the work I do, and I know you do too, is not centering everything on penetration.

Please. It's not all that. Pee in the V is not all that.

Exactly.

And only 17% of women who like penetrative sex, who have penetrative sex, can have an orgasm from it. Okay, that's less than one in five women. If you can't, don't even worry about it.

Exactly. But no one was telling us. But I think that a lot of young people and young men are still. They don't have this information yet. So the questions they might be asking is about what they do learn in schools is, you know, the same stuff we did, like how a pregnancy works or your menstruation cycle, STDs, STIs, but nothing about pleasure. So that's what's still absent in the conversation.

Pleasure. And that's what I love about this book. It's so pleasure centered. And that helps me kind of pivot to the next question that I had for you, tied to your book and tied to your whole career. So many people don't even know what good sex is. They think it's a performance. What is your definition as a sexpert? As a person who went from not liking sex that much to, you know, telling people how to get their pleasure on what is good sex?

I think good sex, we all get to decide first off what good sex is. It's an individual decision. So what might be great sex to me might not be great sex to you. And in fact, we're close. We know about each other's sex lives, and I'm not sure that we would like the same thing sometimes. I love to let people know that you get to decide what good sex is. But the overall experience of good sex, I think would be where you feel safe. You feel emotionally and physically safe. You feel pleasure in your body most the time. That you're doing it so you feel.

Physically and emotionally safe and you're feeling pleasure. And sometimes it might even be pleasure, emotional pleasure that you're doing. A position that you know you're part of. Partner likes, but your own pleasure also.

Feeling pleasure.

Feeling it. You have to.

I'm feeling pleasure. I'm feeling comfortable in my body. I'm not, like, uncomfortable or in a weird position.

And that's undoing the performance.

Exactly. Side note, I hear from young people ask me is, like, what about my orgasm face? Or what if I look awkward? There's a lot of, like, people worrying about how they look. So for me, it's the dissolving of my ego. I'm not thinking about how I look or how I'm performing at all.

You're in the present pleasurable moment. This is a term that Emily Morris taught me. It's a mashup of Buddhism and sexology that only Emily Morris could do. The present pleasurable moment. It changed my life.

What did I tell you?

You just said sex is about the pleasure, about being able to give yourself the gift of the present moment. Pleasurable moment. I love that. So these are.

Pleasure is presence.

Pleasure is presence.

Pleasure is presence.

Right. Instead of. And what you mean by that, I think if I'm understanding correctly, is you're not. Like, how do I look in the mirror? Should I suck my stomach? And it's like, feeling it, being it and having it.

I'm really present with this moment, with this person, with this situation. I'm in my body. I am embodied. It's consensual. And, yeah, I'm present to what's happening. And I'm fully aware. I'm not disassociating. I'm not wishing I wasn't here. I'm not like, oh, I gotta turn the lights off or on, you know, so I'm. I'm present that issue. So what else? It's pleasure. I've got enough lube. I've got toys charged. If I should need those, I'm with a trusting partner. Yeah.

Yeah. And you feel safe and you're able to be present. I don't know that. There's so much more to it than that.

Isn't that great? Like, it wasn't about penis size. It wasn't about my breasts. It wasn't about how you look, how I looked.

It was about being present.

It's not even about an orgasm, per se. It's not even necessarily about me having an orgasm.

So let's talk about this. When in Your life history, as we say in anthropology. When did you start experiencing sexual pleasure?

I would say that my most pleasurable sex really started when I started doing the show. When I started studying sex and becoming a student of sex and realizing that I had to kind of unlearn what I was doing and relearn how to be present with my body, which is what I want smart sex to do for many people. I want people to know that wherever you're at right now, you can start from there. You can wipe the slate clean, you can start over, you can start from whatever and just like say, okay, well, today I'm going to start to learn how to be a little bit more sexually present aware, sexually intelligent. So I did it at 35. I started to think like, okay, well, I can't fake this anymore. I'm going to ask for what I want. I'm going to learn that my orgasms have to come about in different ways, not in traditional ways. And I focus on partners that understood that, that weren't intimidated, that were interested in my pleasure as well as their own. And sometimes I had to teach them that, but I was okay with it. And usually they were happy to follow suit. Luckily, I think I've chosen partners who are more open to that, but in the past I didn't.

Okay. But now I'm just like, oh, it was a process. It was like a re education process. It reminds me of when I thought I knew how to play tennis. I had just taught myself. And then I go to Central park and I have this really cool tennis instructor and he watches me play for a while and he said, okay, we have to change everything. I said, what do you mean we have to change everything? He said, do you want to look like you're playing tennis or do you want to really play tennis? And when it comes to sex, I want to really play tennis. And your book, as much as I've studied sex, cross culturally, as many women as I've interviewed, as many experts as I've interviewed, looking at the worldwide ethnographic data, blah, blah, blah. Your book was so helpful to me in terms of what is sex for me, what do I want sex to be. But, you know, I love that this is part of your book too. And I love that you're sharing your journey with people that you are having crappy sex. Okay, yes, it happens. And it's a commitment. I think part of what I love about your book, and I won't give away too much, but you give people permission to commit to a pleasurable sex Life. And you tell people pleasure is health. Can you say a little bit more about that?

I think it's important that we look at pleasure as part of our overall health and wellness. It's not the kind of thing that we'd have to put on the back burner or we compartmentalize. I think that's the other thing. I want sex to be under the wellness umbrella of how the wellness. I think that if you are mentally and physically healthy in all these ways, but yet you have all these challenges around sex, or you don't feel good in your body or sex that you hope will just go away one day and you want to deal with it, that I would say that overall, that there's some work to do there. And you can't just say you're overall healthy. If we. If we have sexual issues, they're going to impact our overall wellness.

I mean, I've heard you say and I've said that people think that pleasure is the icing on the cake, but it's actually the cake and it's actually the vegetables. Right? It's like, yes, it's the healthy part. The pleasure is mechanically having sex with your partner or somebody just because you feel you're supposed to or it's good for the relationship or whatever. We call that service sex, as you know. But the difference between service sex, where you're doing it for the good of the relationship to keep your partner happy because society says you should, and the kind of sex you're talking about, smart sex, the gap is so huge between those two different kinds of sex. And people have so many questions. And I just want them to know that these questions will be answered in this book, which has been amazing for me. Okay, I have some personal questions. Brilliant. Wednesday, we talked a little bit about sexual intelligence. Would you please just tell us? You said being embodied is really important and being present. Is there one more thing? And by the way, she gets into it in such detail in this book, but is there one more thing you're willing to share about what you think makes for smart sex?

It's hard to pick one of my favorite.

I know. There's so many good things in there.

Pillars is self acceptance is one of them. Accepting my body and accepting my level experience and where I'm at at any given day, any given moment, with any given partner. So accepting myself and not being tripped up on how I'm looking or how I'm feeling and realizing that that's just a really important part of it. Like, I could easily get in my own way of pleasure, but realizing that if I accept myself and I love myself or even like myself that day, that moment, that sex will be that much better. Self awareness is healthy sex to me.

Yes.

Self awareness and self acceptance.

Self acceptance is pleasure. Your book is so inclusive. But one of the things I love about your messaging is that you also frame how self acceptance can be a very radical act if you're a minoritized person. For women, self acceptance is such an act of rebellion. For a lot of queer people who were told, look, your sexuality is. There's something shameful about it. For people of color who have been, you know, experiencing racial stereotypes their whole life about their sexuality, that they're hypersexual.

Oh, that they're like fetishized.

Fetishized objects. So I love how you talk about how self acceptance is harder for some of us.

Yes.

That was one of the most important interventions that I saw in your book, was the inclusiveness and always the acknowledgement. Don't assume this is something that somebody can easily do. This is work, especially for minoritized people. Yes. Thank you for that.

Of course.

Yes.

It's important for all of. Yes, for all of us to work on that.

I'm not going to tease anymore about your book, which comes out a week from today, and such huge congratulations and everybody just pre order it, order it, do all the things. I'm now going to pivot to some more personal questions because I am on a mission for people to have the opportunity to know the most you're comfortable disclosing because people feel so connected to you. First thing I want to say is that Dr. Emily Morse, you and Todd Baritz, at your diagnosis, are two people in my life who I met when I came to la. And you really changed the way I thought about friendship because you had such next level connection skills, compassion skills.

Empathic skills, and real curiosity within the friendship. This is a question that somebody sent me to ask you, but I have the question too. Are the same skills that you see in a person who's a good friend, are those the skills that make people a great lover as well? Not that I want to have sex with you, although maybe I do.

Well, first, I am just very. I'm.

You got veklempt. Emily Morse. When I moved to la, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna let her cry for a minute. When I first moved to la, there was this terrible, dark moment when I was so sad and lonely and I knew you from podcasts and our work, and I realized that you were here and I reached out to you and you were so receptive. It's so rare in a big metropolitan city where people are rushing. And it was so rare during COVID for people to have the bandwidth and the skills to say, like, yes, I'm here, you know, and then it. It has been a next level friendship.

Oh, Wednesday, thank you.

You are. You've ruined other friends for me.

Wednesday, you are just. I just love you so much. You are such a dear friend. And we met. Well, we met because you were on my podcast for your book Untrue, which is brilliant. You've all heard me. I talk about. I quote your book all the time. And you came in to the studio and it was probably. It was 2018 now. And I just was first I was nervous, intimidating interview. Cause I thought your book was so. My version of your book is like dog eared, highlighted. I was just so excited. And you were such fantastic interview. But you were so dear. Like that night, you're like, oh, come to our house for dinner.

And you. I invited you for Shabbat.

For Shabbat dinner. And you were so open. And then when someone had told me that you had moved here to la, I was just so thrilled. And I just feel like our friendship is. It is next level. And it's so special and it's rare. And I'm just sitting here, it's so rare, watching you.

What I want to tell you guys about Emily Morris, because this is about revealing a little bit more of her. You have been there. Emily Morse has been there, ghost writing my texts to my boyfriends, with whom I'm having problems, giving me advice about my relationship with my husband, which has been so helpful. I love that you helped me.

Write the boyfriend text. I'm literally like. I'm like, can you help me? And you're like, sure. And not only are you writing the text for me, which is helping me, you're teaching me. But it's so natural. And that's the thing about you as an expert. It comes from, like I said, your relationship skills. And you have these relationships with literally millions of people who listen to your work. So now we're gonna get into who you are a little bit. And if you're not comfortable with it, you can just say, hey, I'm not gonna answer that.

I'm open. But let's go back to the friendship thing. So I want to say about being a friend is that that's always been something. Like, I. I don't know, I feel like I so value my human, my relationships with With. With women. With everyone, really. But that's been something that I've always prioritized. I've chosen not to have family, meant that I have children of my own.

Okay.

You know, and I think that for me, my friendships are. My friends. Family.

Yeah.

And I feel like you've been a family. Feel like my mom was in town, like you came over. We all hung out. They keep asking about Wednesday. Wednesday.

They love Jen. I love them.

But I feel like, to me, and I think it is. I think if you are. No. Or somebody who has, you know, empathy and emotional intelligence, that. Yeah. I think that. That. That does probably bode well for your ability to be in a healthy romantic.

Relationship as well as a healthy friendship. Thank you for bringing me back to the point with my adhd, because. Yeah, that was the question, you know, and so I guess that's one of the best things that I've learned from my friendship with you, is it's good to raise the bar. And when you raise the bar and have higher expectations when you grow yourself, as I've grown, reading your words, in a friendship with you, listening to your podcast, sometimes when you grow, it ruins relationships, but you end up with people who really can be there with you and present and meet your expectations, and you can meet theirs. And I don't know, it's just been a beautiful journey with you.

Stick around because when we're back, Wednesday asked me top questions from her listeners and the book, like, have I ever been with a woman?

You guys had questions for doctors.

This is from your audience, right?

This is from my audience.

And maybe we can find you on Instagram. What's your Instagram?

Dr. Wednesday Martin, PhD.

Wednesday Martin, PhD.

Yeah. Okay, here's the thing. I posted a story to Instagram. What would you like to know about Dr. Emily Morse? I was overwhelmed. And here are some of the questions.

Okay.

In no particular order, I love people's curiosity about you. And by the way, all these questions were tinged with love and admiration. So many. So many Emily Morse fans have such big crushes on Emily Morse. And I'm sorry, but your crush is gonna be even worse after today. Cause you know her a little better. Okay. Have you ever been with a younger man? Would you date someone 20 years younger? I have such a crush on you. No.

So is that an invitation? Yes. I have dated younger men. In fact, for a long time. I. I did. I had a series of younger male boyfriends.

How much younger were they?

I would say the youngest was probably maybe 20 years younger.

20 years younger. So there's hope for this guy.

Yeah, exactly. Might be. Let's see, is he.

And, you know, in anthropology, we call them age hypogamous relationships. Because in anthropology, we can ruin anything sexy with the technical term for it. So age hypogamy, meaning. And usually when we think of it, right, we're thinking of older men and younger women. But things have sort of flipped recently, and now older women and younger men is kind of a thing.

Have you noticed that? I've noticed. What do you think about that? I remember when I first started the show, and there's so many things, like I go back and list, and I'm like, oh, God, that would not fly today. Or it's cringy. But I remember one of my first years of doing the show, I heard the term cougar. I'd never heard that before. So at the time, it was like 2005. Remember Cougar?

Like older women diagnosed. Yes, very much.

And I don't know if people still use that word term anymore. Maybe it's sort of dated, but I never knew why there wasn't a term for an older man dating. But I don't know if it's just now it's more. If it's marketed or there's been more media attention to it, but I don't know. I think since the beginning of time, I think that men have found older women attractive because of our wisdom, our experience and our hotness and knowing who we are. Have you seen a.

Yeah, I have seen a shift in the culture where.

Young men are feeling that it's like a feather in their cap to be with an older woman. Whether it's like that, it's. It's something on their bucket list, or like you said, they enjoy our maturity and experience and find that hot. That we're established, whatever it is, sometimes guys find it hot that, like, I'm, you know, just 57. Like, just that fact is hot to them. And I think that is kind of. There's a new. Maybe there's a new culture, more of a cultural acceptance about it. But, yeah, and then I've heard. I've heard cougar and I've heard sugar Mama, and they're two very different things.

Very different things.

But we'll talk about that.

Yeah, but no, I haven't seen that. And I just think. I think. And I think this whole. Yeah, I've definitely seen it. And I have.

Okay, so it's a good time to the follower who asked that question, maybe there's hope for you, but I'm not sure, because another question that came in is somebody said, can you talk about your decision to be single and to not have children? And I want to tack one other little thing on there, which is that in your 50s, for the first time in your life, you decided to live with a partner. So could you just talk about sitting in our living room as much as you're comfortable?

I can talk about all of these things, yeah. So for me, I was always on this path that I wanted to find a way to really make a difference in the world, to empower others and myself to make change. Like, that's what got me excited. That's what got me up in the morning, which is why I talked about starting in politics and organizing around women's issues and then around sex. I was like, how do we not have all this information out there? So I've been very passionate about the freedom to explore, whether it's career or places or people. And that's what got me going in the morning. But when I looked at relationships and I looked at monogamy and I looked at raising children, it just didn't. It wasn't a hell, yes. It just never. I never felt that. And I. And I didn't feel pressure from my family. And I think a lot of people have, you know, family pressure when you get married, when you have kids. I think some people have that, and some people. People just innately have their biological clock and they feel that. And I just thought I didn't have either one of those things. And so I just really had this. But I loved my life, and I loved my friends, and I loved having freedom. I always really valued freedom over commitment. And I think children and relationships were sort of just. I don't know, was. It really didn't speak to me. I mean, that was really the decision. And I think that some people feel this guilt around it, like, oh, what if I regret it? And I don't really believe in regret. I believe that you do the best you can in the moment. You make decisions day by day that are serving you, where you're at, as much knowledge as you have. And so for me to look back and say, oh, I wish I would have, could have, shoulda. I just don't do that. I don't do that about life. I don't do that about these decisions. And so. And also to be really frigging honest, because that's what we're doing here. I know myself so well that I was like, I don't think that raising children, like, I Always felt that certain things were hard for me.

Right.

And they still are. And you know me as. As a dear friend, but like executive functioning, getting out the door, making sure that I have my keys, my water bottle, my wallet, my phone was like a journey sometimes. And then to think that I'm responsible for another human's ability to get their keys and their water and their phone. Right. And again, being old and I realized, like, oh, you have a partner and you. They might be better at that than you are, but you bring the love, and I get all that partnership. You find you match with somebody who's better at getting people out the door. But. Yeah, but. But at the year, the years when that was happening, I was like, this just doesn't seem like it would be. But I always have loved kids and love teaching people. I love my niece, I love my friends, kids, all the things I love. I love being around young people. It's like one of my favorite things. I get more. I get energy by being around, yes, kids and young people, but I just never made that connection to find my own. I wish I had a quicker answer for it, but people.

No one, no. We needed to hear publicly.

And so that. That's the one thing about kids. And I, I just. Yeah, that was my thing. And now it's funny because I think a lot of young people today, for the first time ever, because I want to say something now, being in my 50s, it was very, very rare. I didn't have any friends at the time who didn't want kids. And I. Maybe I've won. And now I meet a lot of young people and who knows, they might change, but they were like, I don't want it. And they feel fine with that. And it's much more commonplace.

Yes.

And you're all gonna be fine and survive no matter what you're supposed to do.

Yeah, you were an outlier at a certain time, but you had the same desire so many women had, which was to be child free. I want to be child free. And that, you know, And I love how part of your lesson there is about regret. You say that you don't go and revisit decisions. You do your best in the moment, and then you move forward. I mean, what a great formula for a happy second life and a happy life. I see that in you. You are not a person who revisits things and says, oh, God, why did I. How could I blood. You're. And that's part of you being present. Okay, let's pivot to another. Oh, we did oh, we did.

The relationship. So then. Relationships. Yeah. And I was always in sort of relationships that were monogamy. I've tried a little bit of everything, but then, yeah, I don't know.

I met.

I met a man. He's wonderful. And we thought. We were already spending a lot of time together, and we thought, let's try it. Let's move in together. So here we are about nine months in.

It's six months in.

Seven months in.

Seven months in living together. Dr. Emily Morse.

You know, no one can believe it.

Former bachelorette forever.

I was a bachelorette forever. My refrigerator there was, like, champagne and mustard. For years. My friends would joke, like, all you have are condiments in your refrigerator. And now I've, like, sliced vegetables and.

Fruit and so living together has. With your partner has ushered in a whole new relationship. It sounds like. Like.

It'S like a third person. There's you, there's him, and there's the relationship. And the relationship is buying sliced vegetables.

Yes, exactly. And our relationships and a lot of other things. But I figured this is time to experience it. So, yeah, we're experiencing it.

Okay.

It's a good time. I love. I want to try everything.

Right.

I want to try it all out and see how it goes. But I'm learning, and I feel like all these years I've been helping people and setting relationships. You know, a lot of those skills.

Are important right now, and it's just so great. You can be on any timeline. That's what you've modeled for me. You can be on any timeline you want. You can live on your own, independently, and then in your 50s, you can change your mind and say, I want to try living with my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my person.

Exactly. Or for you, Wednesday, which we talk about in the book, too, about being. And also if people want to listen to the past episode that Wednesday has been on. But talking about being an open relationship after being married for 20 years, 23 years. I mean, a lot of this stuff. I know we're talking, but I. I could just turn the mic on you. But that is such a great. A great model for.

Yeah, I mean, it all can work out. And that's part of what I love about smarter sex is that you're saying that part of smarter sex is arranging things the way that works for you and your partner. For me and my partner, what works is living apart, literally. My husband jokes that he snores, so we sleep on separate coasts. I love him so much. I just had a nice, long weekend with him. But we live on separate coasts and we're married and we're open. And your book and your example, I think are giving people permission to think in creative ways about relationships, time frames, what they want. I love that about your work.

Thank you.

All right, shall we go to the other question?

Let's go.

There were so many. Have you done a threesome? And if so, how did you make sure it didn't turn into a disaster with hurt feelings and stuff?

That's a great question. Yes, I have had threesomes. They've been fun. How do I make sure? Because I just, I think it's a both. Like what I was saying about having healthy sex, you pick someone that you trusted, partners, people that you. That you feel good with. I didn't just jump into it. I wasn't really drunk and I wasn't really messed up and it wasn't a last minute thing. It wasn't, you know, it was just sort of. I don't know, I've.

You're saying have a plan.

Have a plan. Be with people that you trust, that you feel good with. And I think. And if it doesn't feel good. I actually had an aborted threesome once. Oh, I remember we always called out with my friend. We aborted it because it just wasn't. Didn't feel good. I realized once I got into it, I wasn't really into the either one of them. And instead of being a pleaser, which I probably used to think, and I write about this in the book, how I used to think that you couldn't stop sex once it started. I thought that it was like impolite if things didn't feel good. You got to keep going because like blue balls and all this stuff, I was like, no, you guys, neither one of this. I'm out. But you got. And then I left them to have sex with each other. But most of my threesomes, besides that, they were good because I just, I think I knew how to communicate, how to get. Make sure that everyone was having a good time and again, those people that I felt safe with and that I was distracted.

Okay, that's great. I mean, just things too know, I might throw in one other thing. Yes, throw in things, which is just if you are the person who has initiated the threesome, you best not be only or mainly paying attention to the third that you've invited in.

Yes, that's such a no.

There is an etiquette to this. Spread the love, spread the attention, spread the dick or the, you know, who revolve or Whatever. Whoever initiated this, you best make.

That is such good advice. Wednesday. Yeah. How have you. What else would you add to that? People like. Like, they always want threesome tips.

Nothing. I love your threesome tips. I mean, I think that's. I think those are the good tips.

Consensual. Talk about it. Pay attention to everyone.

Just fall into it. Don't be wasted. Sorry. No judgments. But, like, I don't think it's a thing. Yeah. So have a plan. Be with people you trust and respect and can communicate really well with. And, like, if you initiated it, remember to pay attention to your partner.

Exactly. That is just not a good thing. Right. Pay attention to everybody. You're all together.

Maybe I would say aftercare. Like, sometimes a third can feel really left out by the couple afterwards. So aftercare is really nice. Check in with your partner, but check in with the third.

Exactly. And also, it's good. Talk to the third ahead of time. Like, how it's gonna end. Like, are they sleeping over? Where's it gonna end? Are you guys cuddling? Are you leaving? It's important because sometimes it's a little bit unknown, and I think it's important if you are the third to kind of have clear boundaries ahead of time, have a plan.

Okay, here we go. This is so cute. What do your parents think about your work?

My parents are cool with my work. They are. I think for many years, my mom used to say that I had a dating show and not a sex show.

Okay.

Because that was more acceptable.

Are there healthy kinks? Do you and Wednesday have any kinks? This is about you.

You go first. You go first.

Me go first?

Yes.

I have one of the weirdest kinks.

Oh, my God.

What is it? I have a money kink.

Oh, let's talk about that.

I just like it when somebody pays for me.

I like being spoiled, and I think it's very counterintuitive, you know, because I'm very. I. Outwardly, I'm super competent.

And she doesn't need their money, per se.

Right. It's just that I like it.

Yeah, I know.

I have a money kink, and I accept it, and I think it's healthy.

Oh, God, I love this. This is one of the reasons that I love Wednesday Martin so much is because I remember one of our first times we went out here that you showed me your date, and I think we talked about on the episode you were on, but you, like, literally full out say exactly what you're looking for, that you want to be spoiled.

What is the word? I Like to be pursued.

Pursued.

I like to be spoiled, and I like people who are sane and sober. If you haven't done the work, don't like the photo. Yeah.

And by the way, she's been very busy. She's had a lot of suitors. It is like her dance card's very, very full.

Okay.

Now, I just think that clarity. I use that example all the time for people. And I say to my friend, like, because. Because Wednesday, you know, we often hear from people who say, like, oh, well, I don't want to say exactly what I'm looking for, because what if it turns people off? I'm like, how great? Like, you're saving yourself so much time.

To be specific are your opportunity to just say, like, I only want to be with the guy who's sober. I only want to be with a guy who's 6 2. Sorry. I have a height kink. I only want this, I only want that. Yeah, it's an opportunity to do that. But let's talk about kinks in general, because one of the things that some shrinks have told me is we leave kinks alone. They bring people pleasure. And this follower is asking, are there healthy kinks? I don't know that there are any unhealthy kinks unless they're non. Consensual.

Exactly. If it's healthy and it's consensual, and you got to communicate it and you find a good collaborating partner and everyone feels good and they're having pleasure. Right, Right. Like your guys. It's not like you're stealing their ATM card.

Right, Right.

They're, like, willingly buying you Chanel suits, which I am in such awe of.

I want to. I want. Can I change my kink? Can I sign up for that kink? But I don't know that I have a kink.

Do you have a. You have a strong preference?

Strong preferences, yeah. Cause let's define kink is like, it's just kind of like. Yeah, it's like a strong erotic preference.

Should we say that? Yeah, let's say that.

I think I.

We share one. We do. Height.

Height.

God.

I never say that on the show because I feel like short men feel bad, short people. But yeah, I like.

Okay. They might have a kink, too.

Yeah, I like tall.

You like tall.

Okay, we both do. Yeah, I do.

I prefer.

But, yeah, I do.

You told me that one of the things you love about your boyfriend is he's tall and you just want to climb up him, and I loved that. That's just beautiful.

I Love that he's. Yeah, I love these tall and I love that, that he's kind. Honestly, I think he's.

You have a kind.

I do, I do. Somebody who's just like kind and good. He's such a good, A good man and that's so important to me. Like he has really great morals.

Yeah.

He's hot and he's down and he's can be dominant, which I. We know when I require that. Yeah. And that's hot too.

Love that. Thanks for sharing some of your kinks with us. I'm sure the person who asked is going to be thrilled, but I'm also thrilled. Thrilled. Okay. Emily, love your work. Have you ever been with a woman? I have.

I've dabbled and I've never dated a woman full on in a relationship, but I've explored.

Yeah.

Women and it was, it was fun.

Do you feel comfortable talking about what you especially liked about that and what made you feel brave enough to follow up on your curiosity?

Yes, I would. The first time was actually at a sex party and this was really. It was so fun being new at something. And I think actually maybe many people listening are actually new on their sexual journey too. Right. Like, I think if I was 35, go to my first sex party. I mean people probably haven't been to sex parties or experienced things like that. And it's never too late, so hopefully everyone's starting now. But it was so fun being new in this field and in this world and realizing people were so open to sexuality and to exploring. So I was at a sex party and there was a woman and she was really, I found her really attractive and she was kind of hitting on me. We like made out and touched each other's bodies at the sex party. That was my first experience. And I think I just felt I was in a really open environment. And that's the thing about sex parties too. I think people picture them being that we did a whole show on it. If you guys want to check out.

Our sex party episode, definitely check it out.

But we, I think that people think, oh, it's just people having sex the whole time. And that does happen. However, you're with like really consensual, like minded people and you might feel safer at a sex party than you feel at a club or at a bar meeting somebody because you know, everyone's there.

For pleasure, to feel good, to make everyone feel good. So that felt great. And then I think the other one was when I really got into it, was it gotten a threesome, There was The couple once. And I don't know, I just felt safe and open, exploring being with a woman, too. It was like, oh, I know what to do. I know what I would want to do or what would feel good to me. And so let me just see if.

That feels good to her.

And it did. It was kind of fun. It was like I only knew my own vulva, my own vagina. But to really kind of get to give that to someone else who mirrored my parts. It was really hot.

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like it. This is one of the things that I want people to really understand about you is your openness. Sometimes I ask you for advice, you ask me for advice. We ask each other for support, and sometimes we ask each other for advice. I don't think that I have ever had you come to me for advice. And I tell you something like, maybe this would work for you. I've read about this. I've tried this, about whether it's our mental health, our relationships, whatever it is. I don't think I've ever heard you say, I'm not going to try that. You're one of my friends who, when you come to me for advice, I always try to be very careful about advice because I'm an al anon and we don't really, like, tell anybody what to do. We stay on our side of the street, whatever. But so many times I have thought about how open you are to experiences and advice and really listening and really taking things in. And it's amazing how it's improved your sex life that you are, like, open in general. Yeah, I love that. And I love that you shared that experience with the woman with us. Thank you. Have you been with a woman? Yes, I have.

You know, I don't know if your listeners know about the Kinsey scale, but it is a really fun scale. That's basically zero. I'm completely heterosexual. And is it. Does it go up to five or six?

Six.

But it goes zero to six.

Okay.

Yeah. And I have girlfriends who are an.

Absolute zero, meaning zero. Just.

Just totally heterosexual only.

Yeah.

Only androphilic. And then I have people friends of mine who are like threes. I think I actually did an assessment, and I was like, a two.

Okay.

So I have been with women in threesomes for sure. And I had that same experience that you did where I just enjoyed, like, hey, kind of an expert at this, because I've been doing this for a while. I mean, every vulva and clitoris and vagina are different. But it was. I had that Same thing that you did. And I also just had this feeling on several occasions, maybe a dozen when I've been with women that it was about the person. I just found this person so incredibly sexy and their gender didn't really matter to me. And I have a question for you, because this brings up the whole thing about sexual fluidity. Right. We all have an orientation. Our orientation is a real thing. And in the book, you talk about sexual fluidity. Some of us, not all of us, have this other thing, fluidity. And we might act on it or not. And we're more likely to act on it as we age, which was. Which so blew my mind. But are you sexually fluid? What can you say to people who are. What do you want to tell them about?

I think that it's okay. I want to give people permission to look at sexuality and attraction and who you're attracted to as a. I don't know, as sort of an experience where you're actually really embodied when you make decisions about who you want to sleep with or how you want to present yourself, and that you get to decide in the moment. And once you take away all the pressures of society or what you thought was attractive yesterday or last year, you could kind of set that aside and be present with the person in front of you and find like, do I find this person attractive? Or do I feel energy circulating my body? Do they make me feel a certain way and pay attention to those feelings rather than letting your head, letting your brain decide who you're attracted to? So I think a full body. Yes. Of attraction is the way to follow, is the way to go into situations. So I would just encourage people because I think that. I think that a lot of women can identify, or vulva owners can identify as being more. I think that's the thing about the Kinsey sales. Like that they always said that. That women. And I would love to hear what you think about this. That women are more of like, oh, well, zero is a one or a two. We're more likely to be flexible. Right. Or we're like, to be attracted to different genders. But we're men. Most men are like a zero.

Yeah.

But I'm wondering if that is true meaning or if it's just more that men don't feel that there's any way that it is safe for them to explore.

I think it's the latter because you know what? I want to tell you. I know you love her as much as I do. So I interviewed Lisa diamond, and it's so aligned with your Message about permission. So I interviewed her and I said, what is this stuff about women being more sexually fluid than men? And she said, funny you should say that, because she basically, that was her first finding that women are just inherently more fluid than men then. So she published that data. Then she did another study. And what came out of the study was a paper that she wrote called I was Wrong. I love this about Lisa Diamond. So what she found is before she had been Talking to men 35 and older, maybe 40 and older, she then found a group of younger men in Salt Lake City, of all places, which is really super conservative in certain ways. But she found these younger men, and she asked them the same question, one of which was, do you watch porn of men? You stated that you're heterosexual, but do you watch pornography with men in Men on Men action? And a really large proportion of them said, yes. A really large proportion of them answered questions in ways that showed that they were sexually fluid. And Lisa diamond said, it's really more about socialization, that when you're older, you tend to have received more negative.

Messaging as a man, that somehow you're less of a man if you're attracted to men. Hello. I was. I was always, like, when I was a kid, I was always like, wait, doesn't that make you more of a man?

Yeah, exactly.

But anyway, so that you're so right that it's about permission. And that's what she found.

Yeah, permission to explore. That's what.

Okay. There is a great part, my favorite part, personally, of Smart Sex by Dr. Emily Morse is on page 137. I'm not obsessed with it. I didn't read it a million times or fold the corner down or mark it up. You have a really fun exercise. I don't want to say too much, but it is called 69 Questions. And it's a fun and sexy game to play with your partner. Or partners, you say, to open up the conversation about sex. This is so in line with your message that you started your sexual awakening journey at age 35. But people can do it at any time, right?

Any place, anytime. Yeah. Anywhere you're at.

Anywhere you're at. That's such a radical message.

Oh, my God.

I feel so happy for so many people right now. Me too. Who haven't started yet.

Sex is a skill set. You can learn it, it can grow. You can change being sexual, Understanding your sexuality. Yeah, we're always growing and changing. Like, start where you're at today.

Start where you're at today. And one of the Places you might start is with this fun quiz.

For you and your partner or your partners. And do you mind if I just ask you?

Yes. And I want to say that I made this in collaboration with Jennifer, another PhD. Dr. Jennifer Fried.

Great. Oh, Dr. Jennifer Fried. Hi, Jennifer Fried. Cool that you did that together. So the exercise is called situation 69 questions. And if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you the first five.

Okay.

Because. And then people have 64 more questions to enjoy. What part of your body do you find the sexiest? Dr. Emily Morse.

That's a tough question.

My lips.

They are beautiful.

Thank you.

They're so kissable. What part of your body do you want sexual compliments for?

I kiss my ass.

Just such a cute ass.

So do you, by the way.

Thank you.

I always tell her that.

Thank you. Yeah, you do. You always tell me, oh, you guys.

Have a great ass. Just saying.

So do you. Number three. What celebrities turn you on?

This is tough for me. Can I be honest, you guys? I don't have celebrity crushes. Although last night I'm going to say I really don't. It's weirdly because I'm such a sapiosexual, I need to be in the presence of somebody, having a conversation with them and feeling aroused. I don't look at celebrities and have crushes.

Okay, we're gonna ask the next question. Okay, we're skipping that question. What are your top sexual turn ons?

There's so many things that are running through my head. I like just dirty talk, dirty talk. I like being dominated, like being told. Like, I just, I feel like I am always deciding what to do. So I like being told what to do. Yeah. I like slow sex. I like sex that lasts a while, that there's anticipation and a build up and around. Maybe it's throughout an evening or throughout a day. And my top turn on. What else? How many was that? Was that two or three? I would say, you know, I was thinking about the outdoors. Like, I love like outdoor shower sex or being outdoors in nature and in ocean swimming. I love, I love that. The sand and the water and I.

Just learned a lot about Dr. Aly Morris.

I need to go on vacation.

This is my favorite exercise ever. Are you ready? What are your sexual taboos?

I don't think I have any. I don't think you do. I do not have any. I, I, I, I don't have any.

I mean, wow, look where you are in your journey. I just want people to know that she started her journey at 35. And you can start your journey at any time and perhaps get to the point where you have no sexual taboos.

I mean, I can't imagine if it's consensual. Like we said, it's open and my partner was down. Yeah, I would be open. I'm like, why not? Let's see. Let's see where it goes.

Right, right. A lot of people have taboos around anal sex. I've noticed. Like, they write to me about it, they're really preoccupied about it. You know, they DM me and all these things, and ask Gwenza your questions.

By the way, you know, go to her dance.

But I.

So. So when I hear people talk about sexual taboos, I. I hear how there's such. Such intense curiosity and anal's a big taboo for any. And it is. Yeah.

Anal's a big taboo for many people. Well, it's not.

Yeah. Oh, I thought you said for you.

No, no, no, not for me, but maybe it was. At 35, I think it probably was. I don't think I hadn't had anal sex before I was 35.

I remember having a boyfriend in college who was interested in it, and I just said, I absolutely not. Like, I was so dismissive. I just thought automatically, like, oh, that's going to hurt. That's about male pleasure, not my pleasure. I didn't know that. The perineal sponge, which is part of the female erectile network, can make it very pleasurable for some vulva. Clit havers.

Exactly.

And you know one of the things that I really like about anal sex?

Tell me.

Well, whenever anybody asks me tips, I tell them, receptive partner on top, penetrating partner on bottom. Because then you can feel like you have more control, but you're also face to face. So I tell people, like, you can communicate better. Just look at each other's eyes. Like, before you even say, that's too much, that's too far, that's too fast, or go deeper, or whatever it is you want to say. You're looking at each other and you're on top, so you're controlling how things go a little bit more.

The depth and the speed and all that.

I hear from lots of women that they like it, but when I was younger, it was taboo for me, too.

That's a great. That's a great tip. That was good, Wednesday. Wow, that was so fun.

I loved learning about you.

Oh, my God. I just learned a lot. Yes, thank you, Wednesday. You are just. That was a treat.

So fun.

A sonnet, as you would say.

I have to stop interviewing you now.

No. This was so, so fun.

I know. I'm very this is my favorite show.

Thank you.

We brought so much.

Dr. Martin, you are brilliant friends.

A lot of big energy we're wearing you.

Check out our videos. We are wearing Big thank you. This was my gift.

Yeah, I gave you that as a gift. Thank you. I love we got it from Nisha Crosland. I love it.

Yeah. Big pussy energy.

Thanks for being bring big energy into the world.

Thank you so much Wednesday Martin for being my dear friend. You are brilliant and kind and loving and beautifully and you do have a great ass.

I love you, Emily. You also have a great ass and your book is going to change people's lives just like your whole career has.

That's it for today's episode. See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. Partner. You can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. SexWithemily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email, so sign up@sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559-TALK SEX. That's 559-82557 or go to sexwithemily.com askemily Special thanks to Acast for powering the Sex with Emily podcast. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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