Dildos & Vibrators & Butt Plugs, Oh My! with Zoë Ligon

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day. Hey Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Cause my man E here, he just.

Got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not Talk about sex so much.

Are you kidding me?

Oh, my God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good. But, you know, Emily's not the kind.

Of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com because it's awesome, and Jamie's in charge of it, and she can tell you all about what's happening there. All the fun things on our site right now. What are your favorite blogs this week, Jamie?

Right now, we got a couple Ask Emily's on here, which are always good because, of course, you know, we love listening to Emily read them on the podcast. But we do get a lot in the inbox that we can't always get to, so we put some on the site, and that's always fun.

Right?

So this one is Ask Emily how to Fix My Literal Dry Spell. Because a lot of people assume that if you're wet, you're good to go, and if you're not, you're not aroused. But that's not always the case.

So not true. Right. Wetness is not an indicator of arousal.

So there are always. Yeah, not always. But there are ways to fix that with lube and with other things. So you can go on the site and look at that. There's also a cool one about modern dating.

Ooh, I love modern dating.

Yes. And about how there's just too many options to settle down. And there's some good things with that and some bad things with that, and just some things that are things, I think. But it's interesting to see how dating has changed because of technology.

Paradox of choice. Too many choices.

I know, but also, people are, like, also thinking more thoroughly.

I think that's good. I think that you need the experience of going out and dating people, not jumping right into relationships. People are just kind of trying to figure out the right kind of relationships that they want. But I think better take time dating than to jump into something that just doesn't work for you.

Exactly.

So also, you guys, you can sign up for our weekly newsletter. I love our new newsletter format. It's a good time, right, Jaime?

Oh, it is. No, it's. It's super fun. It looks cooler. It looks like more colorful and hip.

Easy to read.

Easy to read, which I like. We all know that, like, get flooded our inbox of different newsletters and things. However, this one, I do think it's fun and it's easy to navigate.

Right. And then, you know, like, every week you're not gonna miss any cool stuff happening on Sex with Emily. And you can also join us on social media. It's all essexwithemily on Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat and Twitter. Cause that's fun. And also sex hack videos. We've been doing a bunch of sex hacks videos. Jamie's been editing them, shooting them. She's amazing. Check them all out everywhere.

Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube. The full versions are on YouTube. If you guys haven't been to the YouTube page in a while, we have been adding to it. It's super fun. It's YouTube.com sexwithemily and that's how you get the full video. Like on Instagram. You only get a minute, right?

We give you a minute teaser. But YouTube's a whole thing. We've had our channel for a while, but we, we are putting new energy and life into it. So subscribe.

Oh. So yeah. So subscribe to our channel. Definitely.

Should we talk about our March April contest? I think you should tell everyone about it.

Oh, yes. Because it's almost over. So it is called the O's of March contest. Although we did give you until April 10th because we know that sometimes it's hard to think of something and you're like, oh, crap. There was this contest I really wanted to enter, but March is over. Nope. We got. We got some extra time for you. So you know those oh moments? Those moments where you're like, oh, like, oh my God. That makes so much sense. Why wasn't I doing this before? Why did no one tell me about this? You know those moments?

Yes.

Have them in your sex and dating life. All aspects of your life. But we want to know what's going down with your O moments in the bedroom. So maybe you were like, oh, that's an erogenous zone. Like, what the hell? Since when?

Since when? Oh, my God. Is my forearm a neurotic?

Exactly.

But actually it changes. It does change. It does change. We've never discovered them. Right.

You may be like, oh, my God. Sex toys. Not just for women. No, not just for vaginas.

Not just for vaginas.

Oh, my God. So we want to hear those moments. You can email feedbackexwithemily with the subject title o's of March or aha moment. Either one. We will figure it out by April 10th and we will give you a super awesome prize.

That's right. Thanks, Jaime. Zoe Ligon is awesome. She's here. She's a Detroit based sex educator. We've talked a lot about Detroit journalist and Artist. And she is the proprietor of a progressive online store, Toy Emporium, Spectrum Boutique. And you're just awesome. You're an artist, you're a writer, you're a creator. You're on this journey of being a sexologist teacher. It seems like you're doing so many interesting things right now. So. So I. We met in the bathroom.

Yes, we did.

As many women do. There's many a friendship and many great conversations that happen in women's bathrooms.

A bathroom at a sex toy expo is the added context.

Right. It wasn't late night at a bar.

Yeah. You were, like, looking at floggers and paddles. I remember I saw you in the sports sheets.

You did?

Was that Emily over there in the sports sheets booth? I was hoping she'd flog me with their new. What's the new line called? Their new S and M Enchanted collection. But no. We met in the bathroom over lipstick. But we were talking. Yeah. I loved you. I adored you. I'm like, oh, my God, you're doing sex. You're in Detroit. Tell me how you got into this whole sex world. What was your pull?

The art actually is what got me into it. I was making collages as a teenager because I didn't have any other artistic talent and wanted to make visual art so badly. So I was like, oh, I can chop up and remix other images. And as I turned 18, 19, I started coming across more, like, pinupy. And then, like, eventually led to smut mags and, like, a little bit more like amateur photo shoots. And I started really enjoying what I could do with images that were very much shot from the male gaze. But when I was able to remix them and kind of, like, put them into my own, whatever I thought was aesthetically pleasing, I was never trying to, like, send a message. But people were like, oh, I love what you're doing. Reclaiming bodies. And I'm like, yes. I guess. I guess I was inadvertently doing that. And I was just, like, working at a bar, going to school, studying psychology. I went to Fordham in Manhattan, and somebody was like, you know, I sell sex toys, and if you make art with, like, nudity and stuff, you'd probably also, like, selling sex toys. And it just so happened that I became orgasmic through vibrators. I wasn't able to bring myself to orgasm through partnered sex or with my hands. And discovering the magic wand, specifically, like, I was like, oh, I'm a power queen. And like, yeah, humans don't vibrate, so I need this tool. So it was exciting and it was nice to get like the money on the side of going to school, but it was really, I mean, I think, you know how it can really quickly turn into therapy in a way too. And since I was studying psychology, I was like, wait, this is a niche that I love.

So I had very similar experience in that I never had an orgasm until I. And I didn't even know what orgasm. I wasn't even trying to have one. I wasn't having bad sex. I said to my friends in Michigan when I was 20, I was like, okay, so, so sex is, you know, I was having sex with my boyfriend. Like I dated him for two years. I'm like, you guys just let me in on the big deal about sex because I don't really get it. And they're like, why aren't you having an org? Like, I'm like, he's just coming in pounding away at me for like 20.

You know, that's what they taught to do.

Yeah, he didn't know. And I was like, and it's not great. It's like, well, what about orgasm? I'm like, what do you mean? So I did. So I learned through a toy too initially. So now that you found toys, are you able to orgasm without toys?

You know, I definitely have. I think about it as like, it's if I really want to spend good or bad.

No, totally curious because I we. I love my toy.

That's interesting that you, you ask that question because it has been a point of insecurity for me. Like, oh, like I'm not X Y truly a woman.

If you can.

Yeah. It's like we're sold all these myths about what it means if you can or can't do, you know, have an orgasm without toys. I have been able to have orgasms without toys. They're just so few and far between. And at the end of the day I'm really just kind of craving the vibration. I know it's a sure thing sensation. But I love that you are also a person like me that wasn't like masturbating all over the place as a 6 year old. Like I meet other sex educators and they're just like, I couldn't stop rubbing myself. And I'm like, well, isn't that dandy? I wish I knew what that was like.

This is what I say, dude. No, that's what I exactly. I'm like, okay, I was not like six and riding a bike and all of a sudden an orgasm or taking a long shower or riding horse, I'm like, I wrote horses, I took long showers. Like I never had the orgasm.

So same thing even cross my mind. And I didn't grow up in a conservative household. Like I was always comfortable with my body and nudity and it just wasn't on my radar.

I do remember like realizing like, oh, like pressure on my clit feels good. But then I just for some reason didn't explore it. And maybe it just had to do with like I was an child. I didn't want to like, I was like, nah, you know, there's a lot.

Going on too these days. It's stressful when you're going, I just think I just fell asleep at night cuz I was anxious. Like growing up was household was rough, you know what I mean?

Like I was like, I'm just going.

To bed, but now exploring it. So now you're like into this world, but you have like, you know, you're educating and you're inspiring so many people. Like young people. It sounds like wise. Oh yeah. Well, dude. Right. But I love, I love what you're doing. Yes, maybe we're doing it. So I. And we're going to be doing some videos which people should watch in a little bit. They're going to be all over. But I want to know about, about how since you have gotten to this world, how your sex life has evolved and changed. Like partnered sex. Well, and I just asked you to think about using toys or not because people always. It just comes up lately because I love toys too and I'm always defending like people. I feel like for some people who have never used toys, I think are like, they're wrong. I'm like, they're just an added. Why just stick with this one. It's great if you can, but why not add different sensations? But I'm wondering how since you've gotten to this world, how your sex life and partnered sex has changed at all since you.

Yeah, it's so funny because even since I started selling sex toys, it wasn't until the last year or so that I really was like, no, damn it. I need a vibrator during penetrative intercourse. And because I am a wand person, it's a larger vibrator. And one of the pluses of it is that you get to like have that ergonomic grip on it so you can, you know, you're not, it's not going to slip out of your hand like a bullet. But it also, you know, you have to get into specific positions to angle it properly. And I definitely had partners who were maybe not intimidated, but were just like, this is a little bit frustrating, and it's not doing anything for me. So. Meh. And it's like, well, those aren't the partners I want to be with.

Well, true. Leave it out. You want the guy who's like, that's so hot. Get your wand. Let me charge your wand for you and make sure that that wand is charged. So we have sex. Like, that's the guy you want.

I'm so lazy. I only use the plug in ones. Cause I can. I'm just the laziest person.

Do you have the rechargeable?

I do.

Okay, good.

I'm a doxy wand person. These. Switch them all out. I have, like, every one.

You do have everyone. I can't even teach. I.

You know what?

And I'm gonna admit this on my show right now, right here, I bet you can teach me some things about. You're the dildo duchess. I don't have. That's your surname. That's your surname. AKA So I don't know what. I don't talk about dildos a bunch. Seriously. I haven't used a. So can you tell me about, like, people even still don't know? A lot of people are like, what's the difference between a dildo and a vibrator?

Yes. Well, it is so confusing because I'll have people be like, I want a dildo. And then through the course of our conversation, vibr. Because there are vibrating dildos, and then there are vibrators that are insertable or even look dildo. Like. Although a dildo can look like anything but the way I've categorized them. And it's. I literally, like, categorize products on my site and have to be like, okay, what is this? Is it both? Is it one or the other? I describe a vibrator as something whose primary function is vibration, whereas a dildo's primary function is to be insertable item. So I think a really interesting example of something right in between is, like, the Fun Factory Big Boss. And Fun Factory makes a lot of insertable toys that have really direct vibration. So I categorize those as both usually.

Yeah, you're right. Those ones. What are the. What was the one that.

The Astronix.

The Stronix.

Yeah, those are pulsators, but I still categorize them as vibrators, since people don't. I can, like, geek out on that.

I totally. I totally. Yeah, go. Okay, I get it.

But it's also like, if you have a dildo with, like, a bored out Hole in the base for a bullet. And, yeah, it vibrates, but if you use it externally, it's gonna be so diffused through all the thick silicone that it's not gonna be as direct. So that's when I would categorize it as a dildo versus a vibrator.

I'm just curious about. Yeah, like, what do you use them? Do you use dildos a lot? Are you more.

Well, it's funny, too, because I am also a girth queen, which, you know, add that to the power queen. And, like, everyone's like, yikes. I mean, not the people I want to be playing with, but it's like we're taught all these myths, and it's like, it's not any individual's fault if they're like, well, isn't a big dildo gonna stretch you out? Like, nobody tells you that the vaginal opening doesn't work that way. And it's true. Like, if I'm using a really girthy dildo several days in a row back to back, you know, I might notice that my body does adapt to that, but then I take, like, a day or two of a break, and it doesn't feel like anything happened. It's temporary sensory perception that causes this myth of, like. Oh, and same things with vibrators. Like, it's gonna desensitize you.

That bothers me. No, it's like, anything. It's not gonna desensitize your cl. It's going to. It's like anything. It's like, I think about it, like, when you're working out. Like, you can work out for when your body. What is it when you Plateau.

Yeah, exactly.

There you go. I can no longer lose weight if I just keep running. So I'm gonna cross train. I think of mixing up your sex toys and your sex life. Like, cross training for your sex life. Because you guys know who email me. And you call into the show that your sex life has gotten boring at some point in your life. That is all of us. But everybody thinks they're the first one. They're like, oh, my God, I thought the world was flat. Now it's not. They're like, emily, I know. I've been listening to your show for a long time. I'm not sure I've heard this exact thing. I've lived with my partner now for six months, and we're no longer having sex. I'm like, that's all we talk about. So it happens. It gets boring. So why not look at it? Like, I guess People are trying to poke holes in things that they're threatened by. So, for example, don't poke holes in your toys or your condoms. But they're the argument that toys are a threat to them and that toys are gonna take over their. When really it's just adding some variety to your sex life. So I get that. But I like that you're just, like, addressing all these things because. And directly with people and with guys you're dating. Let's go back to that. So you're like, so how do you check their girth ahead of time? Or do you just have a girthy toy just in case? Would you date a guy with not a lot of girth, but you're like, dude, it's fine even if you're small? Well, yeah, because I got a girthy dildo, yo.

Yeah, exactly. And I do find that it's like, yeah, I've never met a human who has the girth of the toys that I use. So it's not even like, like, like, yes, girth is lovely. But it's also, I do find that everybody has a special talent.

Absolutely.

And furthermore, like, after, if my partner has an orgasm before I do, I want them to be able to be like, okay, like, I'm gonna, like, rub your arm while you play with your. I'll manipulate the dildo on you while you hold the vibrator and just, like, changing that template. And I. I think that porn has a lot to do with contributing to, like, just talk about. Yeah, yeah. The flow that we're expected. Like, it's blowjob, vaginal intercourse, anal intercourse, and cum shot. The end. No, none of that.

I mean, but you're right. I hate that it is so linear. That's what we see in sex. And that's why people don't know where to go. And I think of it like a dance. We have sex. Like, we. And then you pull out, and then maybe you go down on me for a really long time, and then we bring in a toy and then we finish. We don't even have to orgasm now. And then you go back to it.

Not being goal oriented. Don't be very important.

Right.

Because then you just put a bunch of pressure on everybody involved. And if you don't meet those expectations, I mean, you're just setting yourself up for potential disappointment.

Right. So I love that you're taking charge and that you're teaching this message online and with people you're dating. So how do you. Because, okay, I don't. Michigan guys.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, like I'm for sure. I remember one of the first blogs I ever wrote, which is a long time, but it was like, why high school sex still happens. And I just thought, all the sex I'm having with guys who have been out of high school for 15 years, 10 years, it's exactly the same. Because we don't change that much. We do the same things if no one ever wakes us up. Right. Two other ways of having sex. What do guys need to learn right now?

I think it's always a learning curve. Like I. The first time you have sex with someone, I mean, sometimes it is mind blowing, but it just gets better. And there's like a very vast learning curve when you understand what kind of stimulation somebody wants. And I find that my issue with people isn't usually with like, the mechanics and more so the mindset of a. The fact that I'm a sex educator. And what does it mean for them to be intimate with somebody who's like, basically putting soft core nude images of themselves on the Internet all the time in Michigan, you know, oh my God.

If I never moved, you're right.

I couldn't be what it is, actually. So that's the ethics stuff. You're like the mental aspect of, like, okay, you know, we're not gonna have a relationship that fits into these heteronormative templates. Exactly. I do tend to lean monogamous on the spectrum of monogamous, non monogamous. I do like to have a primary partner, but sometimes I like a side dish.

Right.

And being able to find somebody who's okay with that and has a sex drive that complements mine in that way has been a difficult search. I currently feel very satisfied with my partner back in Michigan. Hi, honey.

Hi.

But it's been really great. And I think that, you know, you say all the time, communication is lubrication. And it's like, I don't care what your body's like or who you are or what you do. If we can communicate. Oh, God. Then it just fills in all the things.

Bring that. Then early on in the. If you could, like, focus on and teach kids, say. Cause you're. What do you think that we need to. I don't even know how it should be taught. I've thought about this. I don't think it's the school's fault. I don't even think it's the parents fault because I don't think that kids even want to hear their parents talk about sex. And in the schools, they don't really so what do you think you're hearing that people need to know right now? Like, what are the questions you're getting asked?

Well, we're talking about this later on, but I really think that porn is such a relevant subject simply because it does stand in for sex education. Kids are coming across porn before they're even at the age where comprehensive sex education would be introduced if it were to be in their school district. And without the added context of, like, okay, like, this is a performance, it is a fiction. This is not the way that real intimacy goes down. Without providing the context, a lot of people are making really incorrect takeaways, Right. And it's changing the way we're intimate with each other. And also, I do think that some of us rely so heavily on the visual stimuli, which can be great and inspiration.

And an amazing part of our fantasies. But if we rely too heavily, like, every time we masturbate, we look at porn.

And like, I just like the toys. Like, you don't mix up the toys, mix up porn. Sometimes. Use your imagination.

Cause the brain is the biggest sex organ. At the end of the day, it so is. I think communication is generally a really important thing. And that obviously transcends into consent and the ways we communicate around all types of relationships, not just sexual ones. I think just being reassured that there's nothing wrong with you and you're not broken. If you feel a little bit different and if you are feeling vulnerable, that's a great thing to look into and find the roots of maybe where that vulnerability is coming from, because you might learn more about yourself.

Vulnerability is so important, I think that it's so hard, though. I mean, to be actually vulnerable with another human. What do you mean by informed intimacy?

Oh, where did I say that?

I don't know, but I was like, thinking we're talking about vulnerability and we're talking about intimacy. Like, what does it mean to you? I guess just like, what do you mean? I don't know. See, who knows? But that's what, like, what about we talk about being vulnerable. What about being intimate? And how do you think that toys. Well, this is what was leading my part about. Maybe that's what you meant. How do you think that using, like, toys and product, like, help couples with intimacy, right?

Well, it's just like you're turning your hands into a Swiss army knife, essentially. Like, you have so many things available to you. And even just learning what you don't know, like, is very informative. And you're. Sometimes it just is truly the process of elimination. I mean, the first vibrator I ever got was like a super soft vibration. And I was just like, oh, I guess vibrators aren't for me. This isn't doing it. And then I learned later on, like, no, girl, you got the softest, right, gentlest vibe. Not that those don't have a place in the world.

They do. There's some people who are like, it's too. That's what you learn. Some people are really sensitive. Some people, you know, they want the harder thing, the bigger thing, so it's okay to explore. And that's the other thing is that I think the problem with porn or just life is that we're not taught to explore. So had I just not taken into my own hands or never? Like, I didn't have a G spot or I didn't like, know where that was until I used toys. So I assumed that it just wasn't there. I think we make assumptions that this is how sex should be. It only is missionary. It's only like doggy stuff. But I think that what I love about toys and bondage and all this stuff that sensation plays, that you actually are making your sex life just much more expansive and you're learning so much about yourself and then doing with a partner is very intimate and being like, what can we learn together? So I guess I just, I hope, like, it sounds like the work that we're both. Everyone's doing in our industry is like, let's shed some of that so you guys can actually. We're trying to help you not take away. Why are you fighting with me about using. Having to use a vibrator during sex when we're actually having sex? I'm pleased you're pleased. And wait till I use a cock ring on you or penetrate you with this dildo and it's gonna feel amazing on your prostate. How about that? So like, just trying to shed all the uptightedness. You could do that in Michigan right now.

I'm. I'm trying.

I know.

And I think it's not just porn.

But everywhere but, like, they need it. I get it.

I think that like, mainstream media and just like, like romantic comedies and movies that depict relationships are not only showing primarily like heteronormative relationships, but monogamous relationships. And I think that, you know, some of us are, are genuinely monogamous and some of us are more non monogamous. It's a spectrum, like many things in sexuality. But it's like not having the template to work with of like, okay, what comes now or like, oh, I'm meeting my partner's other partner. What happens now?

People don't have a place to go for that. There's not a lot of great models of it that actually work. People still doubt that that can actually work. Relationships that are open and you don't have to be just sign up blindly sign up.

Yeah. I also want to see like TV and movies that are representing non traditional relationships. But the entire focus of the media isn't that it's non monogamous. Like more just like.

Yeah.

And they're non monogamous as a side part. And that's. You just don't see that repertoire.

No, you really don't see it. And in fact, I thought something was wrong for a long time. I was just saying. And now actually, you know, I've been in monogamy, long term relationships, short term, you know, serial monogamous. But I just really didn't have done everything open, closed.

I say I'm most serial, the most serial monogamous to non monogamous person. Because I'll just be like, I'm non monogamous. And then I'm like, oh, I'm so in love with this new person. Let me just saddle up with them until I'm not.

But it wasn't normal, like we're talking like in Michigan like 20 years ago. So I was like, I bet. But I always felt that something was wrong with me and now I realize that, that it just was never interesting to me to be with one person and to keep moving. But now I feel like, I love that we just see people talking about it and that it actually works because monogamy does not work for everybody at all.

I think that there's like the folks.

In my community, I mean, not for everybody. It works for many, but not for everybody.

Yeah.

And it's. You never force yourself to do anything you don't feel comfortable with. Just like anal sex. If you don't want to do, like, don't do something because somebody else is like, I'm really. I really want to do this.

Exactly, like. Okay. So do you get tons of questions about anal?

You know, not so much these days, actually. But yes, like, it's definitely like a standard question I'd get, but less so these days, honestly, maybe. Because I think that there's a little bit more information specifically about anal.

Right. Yeah, that's true.

It's good in talking about lube too because like, while. Yeah. While lube is great for everything, anal is like the. Obviously the one thing where the butt doesn't self lubricate, you know?

Exactly. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break. Give a shout out to our sponsors. Thanks for supporting them. We'll be right back.

I feel like lube was, like, my biggest thing, like, with discovering lube for me, because I was gonna ask you this too. That was, like, a huge game changer.

It was for me as well.

Right. Like, just always, like. Like condominium lube. Condom lube. Like, they go together. Like, if I go to the drugstore, I'm buying condoms by lube. Not that I buy the lube there, because we were talking about in a meeting that, no, I wouldn't buy the drugstore, but I just meant, like, I was trying to make this example to somebody and, like, don't buy literally lube in the. Yeah, Think about it this way. Don't buy lube at the drugstore. But if you go in for something.

Better than nothing, try to think of.

Like, you buy shampoo conditioner. You buy them both together. You buy. Think of it that way, because it does enhance sex totally.

And honestly, how hot is it when you go into, like, somebody's bedroom for the first time and they have their own bottle of lube and you're like, oh, you have the lube, and it's a brand I like. Oh, my goodness, he's girthy.

See what a man would have to have for you to want.

He's a girthy man. I mean, anything. Just be nice. Don't be toxically masculine. No toxic masculinity. And I'm sure we'll get along okay.

Exactly. Well, how often do you mean? I'm sure? Yeah, toxic.

It's my only requirement, obviously, at this point, I'll take anything.

How do you feel about. Yeah, I know, I know. I. But you probably. Well, it sounds like your ex. You went through something. Did we talk about this on the air? Off the air, by your ex?

Honestly?

Yeah, it's. It's okay. I. I think it's just been. It's been honestly so much of me discovering myself, too, and being able to ask for what I need. Because while I've definitely been with folks who didn't give me the opportunity to ask for what I need, and I hold them accountable for that. But I know that on that same token, I, for a very long time, was not able to assert my needs. And I'm just so happy to be at a place where maybe I'm not able to say everything I need because maybe I'm still discovering things about Myself, but I just feel comfortable putting it out there. And I think that I'm definitely a chronic over apologizer sometimes slipping into that passive femme role that, you know, if you're socialized to be a woman in this society is very. Just programmed into you. So I have this intense personality when I'm socializing, but then when I'm intimate with people, I really take the back and I'm like, fucking. I'm at such a bottom.

I know. I'm the same way, though. I'm like, I'm in charge of every other part of my life. Like, I'm more passive when it comes. I mean, I'm not passive. I'm much more submissive. I don't want to unless they want that, but I'm just so tired. Like, I'm just busy in life. And you want to just run out. I don't want to say that.

I mean, no, I understand that, that when you're a strong, dominant woman who's running a business and running a life, that it's nice to kind of have someone dominate, be in charge. But do you find. You were saying that the men that you're dating kind of expect you to teach them in that role because you are a sex educator? It just becomes a thing, you know?

Okay. One person I was recently in a relationship with was aware of who I was as a sex educator when we got together. And I was like, oh, great, I'm not gonna have to explain myself to you. You know about this.

Oh, they don't know.

But then when it came down to, like, my actual ideology, this person could not jam with that. It's like, I find a lot of men who, like, want strong women and strong personalities, but then when they express their strong ideas.

It challenges their. Their world view sometimes. And obviously that's not all dudes. But this particular person was just like, I thought that you were just gonna be a chill sex babe, you know?

And I was just like, you're like, I know nothing. Right.

Political too.

Yeah, they don't really know this, like, about sex positivity, what that even means, or like, I think that they would know that. But you've also said, like, our sex negative society brainwashes women. I know you've talked a lot about this, so can we talk about this for a second? What you think about if you want to.

Totally. I do. It's just a really intense subject matter, especially in a post MeToo world where obviously this is all continuing to be part of the dialogue. I hope it's just continues to blossom into more conversation. But I think that in the last year, a lot of women have been recontextualizing situations that felt strange, weird. And now we have, like, new vocabulary and new light shed on these things. And a lot of my previous partner. I had three previous partners of mine outed in 2017. And just I wanted for me too.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was really difficult because there was one outing that I chose to participate in because I did feel like I had been coerced into something. But then the. The other two men, I had consensual. You know, maybe there was like a blow up at the end, but it was consensual and, and, and fine in the context of me and them. But then I heard about all the other stuff they did to other people. And while I didn't have a story to add to that, I was in very close contact with the other women outing these people. And it was really a jarring month, I believe that was. When was that even November? Yeah, it was like late last year. And I definitely went into a hole of just realizing, like, okay, like, I'm very aware of the upsetting things. Yeah, I'm very aware of the upsetting things that, you know, may have happened in my past, but, like, oh, wow, there's so many times that there was consensual sex, but I just didn't think I could say, right.

Yeah.

I didn't feel like I could say no. Or I was just like, well, it's easier to just go through with this than to cause a stir as a woman.

I don't want to buy me dinner. Right.

Like, those things you feel obligated to do things that. It doesn't work like that.

It doesn't work like that. No. But that's what I love is that I. And even so you're in your 20s, so.

Yeah, I'm 25.

Right. 25, right. So it's like. And I, you know, I've been going this forever that I love that. It's just like, that's really not gonna happen again. We have to tell other women that they don't have to. Like, I didn't know. Moving to San Francisco when I was 22, when my first boss thought that he was in a. But there's been. My whole life, there was men. It was inappropriate. Not like in the touching, but just in the. I felt obligated or they had the power to make decisions around things. So I would have a lunch, and they were flirty and it was. That's just how men Were always. Were you accepted it. And then there were also times where I'd go out the guy a few times, I'd get back to his room or whatever it was, his apartment, and I. And it was easier to stay. Like, the whole Aziz and sorry thing brings it up. It might have been easier just to stay and have mediocre sex and then leave because it's harder to leave. But now just to let women know and guys know that pay more attention in the moment to how people could just be more present. Like, what is. You could tell if they. You could probably tell. Or maybe if they weren't so drunk that she wanted to leave. Like, in the Aziz thing, maybe there were times that my body language was saying I wasn't comfortable. But guys are just in this mindset of go, go, you know, it's just we're not connecting.

And again, society doesn't give them the tools to do anything.

It's not their fault. Because I love men. I love men and women.

And that's what you always get, right? Like, it's like, oh, you're a feminist, so it means you hate men. Like, no, no, and no. Like, how many times do we have to say this?

We love men. We want to be better. We want them to be better versions. It's just like, I'm trying to be a better version of myself. I was following along because I didn't know that it was okay to say no. It was normal. I was normalized behavior that wasn't normal.

And I think it's what really upsets me is that men are robbed of the ability to have platonic intimacy with other men, you know, without it meaning something else. And I think that's why contact sports are so popular in our society. But I think it's also just like, yeah, like, you are taught to be, like, to wear the crown and be this solid, sturdy rock in, like, impenetrable force of, you know, and obviously, that's a huge overgeneralization. But then it literally, it, like, it just sets you up for failure. Society sets all of us for failure.

And that we have to kind of relearn what we learned.

Kind of reprogram breaks my heart because I'm like, I do think that there are men who, like, need to, like, do better, and they just are not trying. But I think that there's so many men that really are like, I'm doing the best I can, and it's still not enough. What can I do? And, like, my heart really goes out to those people who are Like, I don't.

I can't.

I think most people are inherently good, and I think.

Oh, you said your heart goes out to people who feel that way, like.

Or to people who, like, have just been struggling, but just are never given the tools or opportunity to be different. I don't know. My dad was a bit of a womanizer, and that was an upsetting realization to have after my dad passed. But I also was thinking about it, and I was just like, okay, well, he had a stepdad who treated him like crap, and he got beat up by him. And he was raised in the 19. He was born in 1939.

Yeah.

And that doesn't make it okay that he was really problematic a lot of the time. But I also have. It's a contradiction. No, we've all learned.

Here's the thing. You look at your parents, like, when we blame our parents for certain things, that's what our job, you guys on the planet, is to work through childhood issues. So as soon as you do that, you can blame your parents, being mad at them, but then you eventually realized they did the best they could with the tools that they were given because they had parents who treated them in a certain way. And that's why they act, because they. That's what they. That's what they were taught, and that's why they treat you the way you. They treated you. So whatever your issues are, so you have to forgive them and realize that we all came from somewhere, and figuring that out and why we're here and working through them is the best work you can do. So, in a way, I get it. So that's where men. So most men learn from their fathers. I think so Learn from their fathers or learn from. From dying of the brothers.

And so it is very generational, too. I think that some older men, like, definitely like the baby boomer generation, were taught to be men in such different ways. It's just there's been such different roles, and obviously things are slowly getting more.

You know, even if it's the boulder.

We'Re talking about it.

Yeah, I love it.

I mean, and while it's been such an upsetting conversation, but necessary, I think that there really are men in my sphere at least, who I think are just becoming more aware and more men who are, like, standing up and doing the explaining to other men so I don't have to, for the millionth time, as a victim, explain to them why their actions are wrong. You know, just like when, like, I think that, like a white person calling out another white person for being racist is like, you. You gotta just, like, call them out because it's like. Like, we can't just be silent. And it's the same. I mean, obviously, racism and sexism are completely different things, but just call them out. Exactly. Like, you need to.

Don't be afraid to confront people right now.

It's not the. Like, the victim's job to educate you.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah, I want to see more allies. Just be an ally and a friend, you know?

I get it. Did you grow up in a religious.

My dad was an atheist and my mom was a Jew, so I was kind of an atheist Jew growing up.

Okay.

But I mean, I actually minored in theology because I was so fascinated by the dynamics within religion that influence our brains and also sexuality.

Yeah. Because we're hearing these. So there's a lot of shame around sex because we're taught that it's actually wrong unless we're married or just to touch ourselves. Yeah. Unless it's for procreation or to never touch ourselves.

Right.

And then people still are. You're gonna get pregnant. I know. I remember dating, you know, people who grew up and, like. Yeah. So you hear, like, every time you have sex, you feel like you're gonna get the woman pregnant. You. You carry that kind of shame.

It's hard for me. And tell me.

I, like.

See, I gained about 40 pounds when I went to college, and I never, like, thought of myself as, like. I never, like, even realized I was gaining weight until people started thinking I was pregnant. And I was not pregnant because I carried all my weight in my butt and my stomach. And I had people be, like, very earnestly, like, congratulations. And I'd be like, what?

And it was just, like, getting to the point where, like, I had never seen myself as, like, you know, heavier or whatever. And I, you know, I thought I was beautiful and I was getting laid real well, you know, that's amazing.

But you were just like, I'm my sexy self. Like, you really didn't know, which I love.

And then I was like, wait, people genuinely think I am pregnant? And it was like. I mean. And it also made me realize, like, oh, yeah, you never assume somebody is pregnant, even if they look nine months pregnant. You just don't assume anything.

Right. You wait until you, like, have confirmation, follow their cues. You're like, there's a reason and there's hell. So what happened?

But I was also not taking care of myself. Like, I had. I was not. Like, I didn't know how to cook for myself, and I was not exercising. Like, I was walking around New York, but I wasn't exercising at all. And I'm so glad that I. I found different types of exercise that I love. Like, I genuinely love going. Going on runs. And I love, like, yoga. Of course. I like rock climbing now.

I love it.

But it's, like, just as much for my. Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It's just as much for my mental health as it is for, like, you know, body stuff. But I will say that when I. So I lost weight just by, like, eating better and, like, paying attention to it, and it's. It sucks on the one hand that I was like, well, I need to change this. But at that point in time, in the context of how it was affecting my life, it did feel like a change I wanted to make. And I did so in what I think was a healthy way for me. But I realized that when I lost a little bit of weight, I actually felt more nitpicky about my body. Cause I was even closer to this, like, standard of what. What beauty is. Although, like, it's all so subjective, right?

Exactly.

And like, I don't. I look at all shapes and sizes of body, and I'm like, this person is beautiful. They're just being them. And then why so beauty.

Beautiful is when you are being truly.

Why don't I see that beauty in myself? Oh, because it's. I've been taught to, like, not have any cellulite, even though it's just kind of a fact of life at this point.

You know, cellulite, it just do.

It's a thing.

It's a thing. Get over it. Make cellulite beautiful again.

And it's like, I'm always gonna be a pair. I'm not gonna be a stick, and I shouldn't want to be something that I'm not.

Right. But you feel like you were being shame. People were saying stuff to you that you're pregnant. So did you feel like this shame around your body? Did you feel.

Yeah, well, I. And it was like, weird.

But then I understand. It was healthy, though, in a way. You're like, wait a minute.

I wasn't like, crash dieting or anything. I was just like, literally just like, moving my body a little bit more and being mindful. Because I love food. Like, I love, like, binge. Like, I'm a binge eater. Not like, in an unhealthy way, but, like, I can just like. It's a really, like, beautiful, hedonistic experience. Just like, sexes. It's like, like, obviously everything in moderation, but There is something really beautiful about indulging. It's like an indulgent experience. But when I. When I lost the weight also, I was almost equally offended when people were like, oh, you look so great now. And I'm just like, excuse me, so I didn't look great back then.

Exactly.

And it's also just like, when somebody loses weight, sometimes it's because they're grieving, sometimes it's because they have an illness. It's not a good thing necessarily.

Exactly. Don't say congratulation.

Yeah, I mean, like, I've totally made that mistake myself. It's like. And it's okay. It's just like more like, be aware and, you know, and your body.

I think it's really about confidence of what I love here. I mean, it understands, like, you had to, you know, you weren't being as healthy, but also just, you know, I just hear from so many women who just are not that they do still feel like they have to meet this certain standard of beauty, standard of norm, but just loving your body, that you really still always felt beautiful. And you are beautiful in any shape and form. And you're saying, oh, thank you. I'm serious. Look how beautiful you are really in your body. But I get it that I just want women and men to feel just. And this is the thing that comes out in sex is I think people are having a lot of disconnected, uninteresting sex because they're so obsessed with themselves and their bodies, and men are worried about their penises, and women are worried about how they look. And if people could just, like, in the moment, be like, oh, my God, we are fucking right now, and we're attracting each other and it's hot and all that stuff, just let it go away. That's how the confidence builds when you're like, I had amazing sex and I was not in my head, I was connected to my body, and I know how it works. And, like, pulled out a big vibrator. I didn't feel bad about it. Right.

And, like, bodies are like. They can be, like, really gross, but also, like, really beautiful in their grossness.

Exactly. Yeah.

Like, I think funky body smells are delicious. My. My partner made like. He, like, was like, I read an article that if you bring a shirt that belongs to your partner and smells like them, you'll feel, like, more relaxed. And I have, like, flight anxiety, so I was like, like, huffing that shirt, you know, And I'm just like, it smells like bo And I'm like, I love this.

Yeah, but it's also true. Like, there's such a narrow frame of bodies depicted in mainstream porn, too. And I think that also does contribute to, like, the very narrow set of beauty standards that, like, are, like, what vaginal lips are supposed to look like. And especially, like, if you're not playing with people who have anatomy that resembles yours, like, you don't understand the wide variety of how bodies. Bodies look. And it's so funny because, like. Like, I think that people are getting. I do know that people are having cosmetic, like, vulva surgery in increasing numbers right now, which, like, really breaks my heart because I'm just like. Do you know how much, like, I think long vaginal lips are so beautiful and so are small ones. And, like, dark. Like, yeah, deep red, light pink, dark purple, whatever.

Like, you know, it wasn't even a thing, right? People.

People like anal bleaching. Like, ouch.

I know it's all, like, just if you. If you're. And that's. See, I feel the same. If I was with someone and he was like, I love anal sex, dude. It's amazing. But could we just go bleaching maybe on a Saturday? You know, Like, I'd be like, let's say guys have that. No, that's not my guy. Like, you're judging me on that level. I know that sounds. I don't know, like, look at me. I'd probably be like, off to the next anal bleacher if my boyfriend said that to me right now. But I'm just saying because I love him. I'm like, if that's what you needed.

But in general, like, give me a Groupon.

If there was a Groupon, I would do it, and I would come on the show and talk about it.

No.

Yeah.

It's like, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's just like, where. Where is your intention with this? I think.

But that is. It's a weird one, right? And everyone's body is different and beautiful. So that is something with porn that I'm just like, no, just at the. More. I'm telling you, at the end of the day, my best advice for everybody is to slow down, to breathe, and to just. Whatever it takes to really be in the moment and present and love your body when you're masturbating and you're with somebody else. So any kind of mindful masturbation practice. Mindful sex practice, that you can have to get all these messages out of your head, connect.

And I'm so in my head. So.

Yeah, no, I am too. Like, when I'm not having. I mean, even during sex, I am a lot, but I try. I've.

I keep my eyes so, like, I'll be like. And I'm just trying to keep my eyes open sometimes because I like.

What are you focused on?

I don't know. I guess it just like removes the added stuff, stimuli, so I can like, focus on the physical sensations when my eyes are closed.

That's okay.

Just like a reflex.

It's all okay. Yeah. You're not. Are you fantasizing? Are you focusing on, like, pumping your cat? What are you.

Yeah, I'm like. I'm like, literally just like. Like the minute sensations happening are what I'm trying to hone.

That's what I always. That's the most important thing. And that's another reason why I do love toys. Because it's just. Well, for so many reasons, but it's. The more you can pull yourself back into different sensations during sex, the easier it will be to start. Stop the mind chatter.

Oh, yeah, that mind chatter.

Shut up.

Stop it. Thank you for being here, Zoe Ligon, helping me here. Answer these emails. Okay. This is from Maddie, 23, in Missouri. Hi, Em. Oh, it's like I know her. Hi, Maddie. First off, thank you for being such a reliable and trustworthy source for all my sex and relationship questions. There's so much info available on the Internet, but I only feel safe using products that you recommend and trust. Aw. I'm looking for my first butt plug and I really have my heart set on a juul plug plug. They are just the cutest. I am a newbie to butt play and I'm absolutely terrified the plug might get lost inside me. I've done my research and read the horror stories online. Is this more likely to happen with the jewel plug or why do they seem so hard to find? I also want to be able to have vaginal sex with this jeweled plug inside of my rear. I. E. I don't want to hold on to it during vaginal sex for fear of sucking it in. What is a good plug that has a wide enough base where I feel absolutely confident, safe that it won't get lost inside me and we're not going to bite. Okay. So thank you. Mad.

I'm telling more.

You can buy it.

Yeah, I think I don't have. I don't have jewel plugs, but we got a bunch of flared base plugs.

Flared base plugs. What do you love?

Honestly, anything with a pointed tip will be a good toy. It doesn't matter so much the diameter, it really just depends on what your body is or isn't used to. But if it has a pointed tip, it's going to be so much more easy to insert than a blunt tip.

And a flared base, you shouldn't have to worry about if it's. If it's a flared base. With the jeweled.

I mean, I think that they are have. I mean, like, what I think that the person's talking about is it does have a flared base, as far as I know, because, like, the jewels at the end and has got a really skinny neck. That should be fine. The truth of the matter is, like, anything could get lost. If you, like, really tried hard enough to push it inside your body, there.

Will be horror stories. And there are people going to the emergency room every night for putting things in their butt they shouldn't.

It's got vacuum in there. That rectum is a vacuum pressure. It's not like the vacuum vaginal canal, which has a definite stopping point to it at the cervix.

Right. Exactly, honey. You know.

Yeah.

So that's the truth. So I understand that there's a lot of great ones. What about the G Pop and the G Plug from FT London? I think they're on our site. They're really cool. They look like the ice cream cone.

Oh, swirly.

Swirly. And it's like the vibrations are really cool.

Oh, I have seen this. That is cool. Yeah, it's silicone.

Yeah.

Pointed tip. If it vibrates, that's good tips. Yeah. If it vibration, that helps relax the sphincters.

But go slow, use a lot of lube. And yes, the vibration can feel very good. To work on the outside sphincter muscles. Relax, breathe. The G plug 5, it's a little bigger. Oh, yeah.

That looks like the shape of what I'm imagining the jewel plugs to look like.

But I think that you just gotta play sweetie with a few. And. And the jeweled ones that I like were the ones with the. The tails on. You know, you go to the second. Yeah. What was it?

They still got like hello Kitty ones too.

They got all the stuff, but they. Do I have a unicorn one.

Oh. The last thing that the person mentioned was having vaginal intercourse with the plug in. And that is really awesome. And especially if it's got like a more of a plump shape instead of like a smooth tapered shape, it will create like. I mean, the wall, the lining between the vaginal and anal canal is, you know, it's thick, but. Yeah, I mean, like, exactly. There you Go. So you're putting pressure on the G spot as well. Like indirectly through that lining. I was going to say it's not thick enough that you're going to like, break through it. Because I've had people be like, wait, can I like, break through?

Could you talk about the membrane?

Like, what if I break through? No, but it is thin enough to feel. Thank you. I'm word salading now.

But yeah, it is cool. And if it's a vibrating plug, perhaps the little bit of vibration on the penis or the dildo or fingers or whatever is.

Feels so good. Yeah, just try it out. You're absolutely right. Because a lot of women can have orgasms because of that. Well, because of a lot of reasons. But if you don't know, right. If it's vibrating and it's the G spot, it's just trifecta.

All the things.

This is from Rachel, 21, Wisconsin. Hello, my name is Rachel. Your podcast has truly made me so much more confident in my sexuality. Oh, Rachel, love that. I have two big things going on. Number one, this is in all caps. Ready? I can't orgasm. For the life of me, I've never had one. And it has honestly been so frustrating. I don't know what sex toys are best for this. I was wondering if you had anything that would be helpful for me. I feel like I've tried everything. Number two, after having a sexually abusive boyfriend, my casual sex life has been struggling in one major way. I don't feel comfortable being on top of. And I honestly feel like I have no idea what I'm doing. I would love, love, love some tips about being on top. I would be happy to exchange tips and vibrators for baked goods. I'm a great baker. Oh, we're so answering your question, Rachel. You keep those, keep those baked goods, honey. But we're here to help you.

I'll take them.

Sorry. Well, yeah, she can visit you. Okay, so just chocolate chips, no nuts. So she's never had one. We talked about this earlier. This is a great question. So. So, yeah, I get it. Which toys are best? I would say a clitoral toy.

Yeah. Something versatile that you.

Even if you like different ways, even.

If you don't plan on using it internally, having the option can be a cool way. So especially if you're, like, on a budget and you want to not buy a million different things, what would you say? Something that has a, like a slim internal shape. Like, I like the pico bong toys because they're not too expensive. It's Lelo's battery operated line or like the Svakum toys are pretty middle price point as well. But something that can be inserted but also has direct vibration, not diffused vibration. Right.

So I like the. I like the we vibe touch because. Oh, I love we vibe. But that one I can insert too. It's my favorite because. I don't know, it just goes inside. If you need a little inside, it's got the tip. And then the vibrations are. You can. Wherever you press it, the vibrations will go. And it's great for clitoral. But also your clitoral legs. Your. Your. It took me a long time to realize that the legs. The clitoral legs. There's the clitoris internally. Is such a whole party going on that I didn't know about.

There wasn't any research on it until the 90s.

So. Is that why?

Yeah.

For reals?

Yeah, it was. Well, I'm So internal structure was discovered in the 90s or talked about in an articular way.

Yeah, we knew about a long time ago. But it's so true that a lot of my magic happens with the vibrator on. Like my labia.

Totally. Yeah. Labias.

Labias.

I also love to recommend books when, I mean, like, I was. It wasn't that long ago I was pre orgasmic. And I know you're like, right, yeah. Sex for One by Betty Dodson was a really helpful book for me because, like, I think that you can learn to become orgasmic with a partner or by yourself. You don't have to do it one way or the other. But I think that the more you know about your own body, the easier it is to give instruction to other people.

Absolutely.

And I think that, you know, this is getting to part two. But the more variety in ways you're able to stimulate yourself, the more comfortable you'll feel in new situations and new positions. Like being on top.

Like being on top. So getting comfortable. I understand what you mean about being on top. Sometimes I can't. And I'm not sure it sounds like more. You're saying you don't know how to move.

Right.

Cause I also think, like, first of all, it's different for every woman how we move. But I think, like, in porn, you see it like you're going up and down. Right. And for some women, that can be amazing if you're having clitoral stimulation. But to me, that's never really.

Yeah. Like really riding it and grinding on it.

Grinding. You gotta grind it back when you're on top.

Like, you have A little bit more control over what's happening. Not that the person lying down, you know, on their back can't be active as well, but, like, ooh. Sexpert. Taomi, who. She has a really great Twitter and YouTube videos about, like, riding. Specifically riding. And she has, like, amazing videos where she's, like. She's wearing clothes and so is, like, her, like, male demo bottom. But she's, like, showing.

Yeah.

And I'm like.

Because it's the grinding of the clip. So I think, like, just experiment. Like you said, like, knowing. Right. Well, check out her. Her video.

She's amazing.

That's awesome. But I feel like the. The back and forth, it's just different for every woman. So knowing how you. If you need more clitoral stimulation. The grinding.

Yeah.

Moving in circles.

It's easy to use a vibrator when you're on top, too, because you have that, like, perpendicular or, you know, you can be lying, you know, parallel. But if you're. If you're, like, sitting up more and you're holding a vibrator against your body, it literally is just, like, direct access or hands or, you know, just anything. I love that opening up.

Exactly. So I say practice doing your mindful masturbation and just get on top. Like, everything with sex is about having the experience, too. So I. Getting past your fear, who's ever having sex with. Is so psyched that you're there and having sex with them, they're not even thinking there's a right way to be on top, because there is no right way. So I want to say to you there, Rachel, that you get to figure it out. Now, this is fun. So I love that you're having casual sex, exploring yourself, spending more time to get what you like. So all I'm gonna tell you is get on top. Use each casual sex partner as a opportunity to learn your body. So just think of it as, like, you're finding partners. They're lucky to be with you. You get to get on top and just play around and figure out what feels good in the moment.

Do what you want.

Right. So tips would be just do what you want. Play with people. Play with some.

If you're a book person, do a book.

Yeah.

Or audible.

Audible.

Audible.

That book.

Yeah.

Audible. You're right. That is a great book. Sex, for one. Yeah.

Cause it's not just like, do this now, do this. I mean, there are some instructive moments, but it's also just like reading Betty Dodson books. I'm just like. It's like my Fun Wacky aunt is telling me what to do.

Right? Exactly. No, I love Betty Dudson. That's great advice. And my mom, when I was not orgasmic, I was like 20. And I said to my mom, so, yeah, Rachel, you're 21. I was 20. My mom bought me a book, Loni Barback for yourself. It's on my shelf over there. And told me I should smoke a joint.

Oh, yeah, Good.

But the books are great. So I think it's education and experience are going to help you move things forward. Rachel. Let me know how it goes. I'm so glad you're listening to the show and Zoe will take your cookies, your baked goods, and we'll send your address. So thank you. Okay. This was awesome. That's a wrap. This was so fun, Zoe.

There's so much in common.

Honestly. I know. We gotta hang. Yeah, we're gonna hang. I know. I have to go back to Michigan soon. Or you should just come here. So, Zoe Pilot, how can people find you?

I am Thongria on Twitter and Instagram.

I'm thirsty.

Oh, yeah.

And my store is Shop Spectrum Boutique on Instagram and Shop Spectrum on Twitter.

Cool. We'll have this all on our website, too. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

I had a blasting. Me. Me too. It's great.

Thanks. Me too. In a good way.

Yes.

Hashtag me too. But let's take me too back for the like, lube. I like lube. Me too. Okay. Thanks, everyone for listening. I love you all. Thank you to everyone on my team. Thanks for subscribing and checking out the show on itunes because that's awesome. And reviewing the show. Was it good for you? Text ask Emily to 797-979.

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