Emily and Dr. Drew Discuss: Porn Sex vs. Real Sex

Hey everyone, thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm so excited for today's show. I've got Dr. Drew Pinsky here in the studio and we are taking your calls. All your love and sex questions, we're gonna answer them. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.

Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

Hey Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my.

Do women know about shrinkage? Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean, like laundry?

It shrinks?

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh my God, it feels so good.

Being bad feels pretty good.

But you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com where you can check out all the amazing things we have going on here at Sex with Emily. Follow me on social media just because we have a pretty good time here. So you want to see what's going on? You want to see all the sex toys and the fun we have here? Birthdays? We've had a lot of cake this week. No, that's not that interesting. That's not going to drive you there. How about the huge box of— what did we get this week? Lubes. Pounds of lube. It was amazing. Anyway, it's all @sexwithemily across the board. You can also shop at my store on the website, and I just love you all. Thanks so much for listening. I'm going to welcome my guest, Dr. Drew Pinsky.

Hey there. It is fun around here. That's why I can't stay away. I know, right? You gotta keep coming back.

You gotta keep coming back.

Pondalube, especially.

Dude, don't leave without Pondalube. I got a backpack for you.

Pondalube.

Yeah, Dr. Drew, it's so funny. So I never listen to my podcasts. So I've been doing it for 12 years.

Yeah, I don't listen either to mine, to anything I do.

Ever?

Almost never. My wife listens to stuff, so I sometimes hear it in the background and I cringe.

Right, exactly. But it's not even so much 'cause my voice, I've already gotten over the fact that my voice is like this and I say um way too much. It's more like I was there and I feel like, do I really have to listen? Do I really have an hour? I wanna listen to something else.

Absolutely. And if I were gonna evaluate my time, myself, I'd probably listen for 5 minutes ago and I'd have many, many notes in 5 minutes.

That's the thing, and then I want to change everything. So I just don't. But then, so you're coming back, you've been on the show, you were on one other time, or two other times, twice.

Last time we had a really good conversation.

We had a party, that was a party, like that was fun.

And then you saw me speak at the Human Gathering and you thought that stuff was interesting.

Exactly.

Different stuff than we were talking about.

Different stuff, but what I was going to say is, well, right, because that's what I want to talk about as well. I never listen, but I happened to listen to that yesterday. I was running and I was like, I'm gonna listen to it because it was our top-downloaded podcast, 'cause it was that good of a conversation, and maybe you tweeted it. And it was really interesting. We talked about female, 'cause of course I didn't remember all the details, but female sexuality and what are the questions that women have to ask about, why don't women know how to connect with their body sexually?

Yeah, yeah, that always mystified me.

Right.

Still does.

We were starting a movement. It was a good show. So if you guys haven't seen that one, check it out too.

There is some new data, by the way, that sort of piles on on to this, and it makes me think we're in a little bit of an— well, I know we're in a different historical moment here. I think anybody that doesn't sort of feel that way is not living in with the rest of us, right? Um, and some data came out of Connecticut that shows that women, although they don't say they evaluate potential partners so much by physical appearance, when they measure it now, it turns out they are, and even their moms are. So in other words, if you hold personality and character traits constant he's nice, he's giving, he's thoughtful, he's blah blah blah. Hold all those things constant and show you 5 pictures of guys, you will pick the better looking guy for sure.

Of course, who wouldn't?

Well, but they say they'll do less than they would, and they actually— and the moms do a little less, but same kind of thing. So I think, I think in this age when we're bombarded by images of porn and pictures of beautiful people, it's, it's not just affecting men anymore. So, you know, women have always complained, like, the body image stuff because there's so many images. I think it's now translating fully over to men where they're getting these Adonis complexes, right? They're worried about how they look. You were giving me shit for worrying about my diet before.

I'm like, I got M&Ms for us, and you're like, "Don't you work out all the time?

You do your thing." It's our normal thing.

I know, we do.

And now the choosers are also being affected, I think.

You're saying the men?

Women are being more choosy about the physical appearance.

But I feel like, I guess that women are more.

Not that they would never have any. In previous studies, it didn't show as much, And they reported less even than they're doing now.

That's interesting. I wonder if it does have to do with all the social— I'm not sure what it does. Well, I would think of everything. I would think that would always be the same with all else being equal. If empirically there's a photo of a person speaking now.

You're right. However, it seems to be more powerful now.

Okay.

All else being equal, right.

Okay.

And they're going to start to look at different age groups, things like that. But I think there's a little shift going on. And why not, right? Why shouldn't there be shifts?

There's always shifts, I guess, going on in that.

And that goes to what you wanted to talk about, which is that we are an embedded species. And we don't like thinking about that. We like thinking about our individualism, and we like studying individual brains and individual systems, and talk about our individual experiences, but we are deeply embedded in a history and a social context.

Exactly.

And I'm thinking a lot about that these days.

So let's talk, okay, so that's the other thing I was going to talk about, is that I saw you speak at the Human Gathering Project. Is that what it's called?

What is it called? The human gathering.

The human gathering.

THG.

I was there. I was there for 3 days. And you opened it. It was random. I met the guys that were starting it or who were a part of it, creating it. And they're like, oh, we're doing this thing tomorrow. And then they asked what I did. And I said, I do this radio show. And I think I heard you on Loveline. Well, actually, Dr. Drew's speaking. I'm like, he is? He's a good friend of mine. I'm going to show up. And I was so blown away because I've heard you speak so many times. I've watched your show. We've sat next to each other on Loveline. And I've watched your show on HLN. And I've actually listened to more your podcasts than my own. And you were on stage and it was captivating because Because it's kind of like the environment was sort of like set up like a TED Talky kind of thing, right? It was kind of thought leaders, and I don't know how much they even told you what it was. I didn't even really ask.

They didn't, you know, always those things, they're very difficult to define. We're going to change the world. Here's what we're going to do. We change the world. I'm like, all right.

But it was through consciousness though, and connection.

And I do want to get into it, but I did have another funny thought about it. I woke up a couple days ago and I thought, you know what? Scientists and physicians and engineers never do those kinds of conferences. 'cause we are too goddamn busy trying to figure the facts out, figure the truth out, and apply it rather than we're gonna save the world here. We just discovered how to save the world. We're gonna go do it. No, no, we're actually trying to actually figure this stuff out.

Are you saying like you don't do the navel-gazing kind of things Rowan's talking about?

Not navel-gazing. You never see physician groups going, we're gonna have a gathering. We're gonna figure out how to solve that. No, we're too busy actually doing it.

Well, okay, I thought you were kind of saying like why are they wasting their time? But you're saying no, in general, the physicians should be the ones who maybe who are gonna do it. No, no, they may be wasting their time or not.

You only find business people doing that.

True.

Because, right, because everyone's too busy actually applying their skill and developing their craft and stuff. And, and it was sort of what I was talking about too. Remember I was saying, listen, it's one person at a time, and in order to really change one person, you have to have a lot of skill and a lot of wisdom, a lot of experience. And, and it, it, they don't, they miss that part. They want to go solve clean water for the world, which I don't, I applaud them for, absolutely.

I didn't get any of that. I don't even remember that part. I'm not even talking about that.

See, this is why you were there, but you, well, no, but this is —part I didn't emphasize because I was, I was afraid people were gonna get turned off by that. I don't mean to turn them off. I mean to say they're looking for something more. They made a bunch of money and they're looking for something more. I've seen a million of these guys. Right. I know all these guys before they started. And now they're like— and I always get pissed off. I'm like, dude, I've been making a difference for a long time and I'm very grateful to have that. I wish I had your money. I mean, that would be fantastic for my family. But they're talking about philanthropy and giving back and then how they've added money. It's grandiose. It's grandiose. And my point is, You really want to get that feeling of eudaimonia, which is what I was talking about, which is a certain kind of happiness. You get it one person at a time. Recovering people have it, right? They have it like crazy. People that are in helping places have it like crazy. And they don't want to do that. They don't want to get the skill, they don't want to take the time, they don't have the patience. It's a really interesting thing. And I don't want to discourage them from it because I want them to solve the water problem for Africa, whatever it is.

But I think what they were talking about, it was more about consciousness. And it was about—

well, I was talking about that. Is that what they went on? They went on to talk about that?

A lot of people. I mean, no, because I told you people were talking about company culture, and I'm like, oh God, are you better— do I have a good company culture? Is everyone here happy? You know, and there was some businessy stuff, like, you guys are pointing at the sex toy closet.

Oh, I see, they're pointing at the closet.

Do I talk to my staff? You know, there was stuff like that, and there was about like businesses and making connections. But you were like on the— like, there was a moment, and Valerie, your publicist who's been with you for 20 years, I did not know she was there. And then we both look at each other, run across the room, she's like, I've I've never seen him like this. So it was when you were on the floor and you were like talking about how— we were talking about happiness, first of all, and you were talking about how, you know, it's this elusive thing and there's all these books on happiness and no one ever defines what happiness is. And then you're saying, you know, it's actually about— you know, you were saying that you're grateful. If you're grateful a few times a day, that's what, you know, can make you happy. That's the sign that you could be happy.

And it also adds to happiness too.

Yeah, it kind of adds to happiness. But then also when you were talking about— and this might too much because we do have callers, we have things that we're doing.

It's a word away from sex a little bit, but go ahead. I don't know, I just—

when you were talking about your experience, I think it was with your therapy, rational emotive therapy. Is that what—

right, emotionally focused therapy. Oh God, emotionally focused therapy.

And you were talking about how you had the, the patient and you heard that, yeah, I hear these things and I feel these things.

Yeah, it happens to me all the time.

Yeah. And then that's— I think that's— but it's the embodiment and it's the work. And it's so— a lot of what people are feeling, they don't know what— even know what they're feeling and how it manifests in your body and how you learn to connect with people. And then you got on the floor and you were about our parents. You're like, if you're a parent, you have to mimic back their emotions.

And then you got on your knees and— well, this woman was like, how am I going to be a great parent? I'm like, do this. Get down, down to your kid's level. And I was trying to show— and be face to face, let your body attune. And when it does attune, guess what? Your heart rate will mirror the kid's heartbeat. You're even— your hippus, your— the pupillary movements in your iris will actually mimic your kid. And then just stay open and reflect back on your face an appreciation of what the child's experiencing. And that little model is an exchange that we can use in everyday life, right? The mirroring in our face. Women do that almost automatically, do it very subtly. They do. You're doing a little bit of right now, even with me. And I'm acutely aware of it because I had to really do a little bit pronounced as a male in order to set the boundary and to show that appreciation of what they're experiencing. And if you remember on Celebrity Rehab, the patients used to give me shit about it. Go, no, there he is with that sad face again. It's like, no, I'm signaling. I'm signaling it's a different, I'm not catching your feeling, but I am deeply appreciating your feeling. And I'm signaling you, I'm not telling you, because telling goes to a different part of the brain. The signal goes to the deeper right side and holistic embedded part of the relationship.

And is that something that you think as a physician you learned it or more through the therapy? I feel like you were talking about your therapeutic experience that allowed you to connect more with yourself and then appreciate the same with everybody.

So my therapeutic experience as a patient, I was talking about my therapeutic environment as a practitioner. And then I was talking about my disciple— the, the, what's the word for all, like, the disciples? I was talking about all the people I— what were Jesus's followers called? Disciples. Yeah, there's, there are like, there's a try— there's disciples out there that I am their Saint Paul, right? There's a guy named Peter Fonagy whose stuff I'm describing now, has got him. Alan Shore is a guy named Pete, Stephen Porges, a guy named Dan Siegel, a guy named Bessel van der Kolk who I forgot to mention. These guys, I'm telling you, these guys have worked this stuff out, and I I listen and read their stuff like I'm reading the Bible. I'm just in awe of it. And so it's 'cause deep, deep application. It's the next 100 years, I'm telling you. It's the beginning of the next 100 years of understanding the human experience.

Right, and I think that a lot of, well, a lot of what we talk about is we're always saying, and you're on Loveline, you should see a therapist. You should go to therapy. You should do this, you should do that. And people, I don't know, it was another way of showing that. The experience. How much that experience, people don't really get it. They're like, I gotta talk about myself and pay 300 bucks.

There's lots of bad therapists too. So many bad therapists. And there's lots of cognitive behavioral therapies, evidentiary sort of practice associated with them. They work, they work for short-term problems. But really, I almost thought— I thought— I don't— I think I said this— we should have a different sort of term for, for this sort of finding meaning, fully evolving mental health, right?

But I think a lot of it is about your thoughts.

It is, but it's not mental health. It's like mental evolution or something. It's, it's, it's, it's mental—

it's mindfulness.

No, it's realization rather than health. Self-realization.

Again, we're back. But this is important. I don't know. Okay, let's, let's—

this is what I just— all our craziness comes out in relationships. Nowhere does relationships come out more than—

and no craziness come out in a relationship. We all need a little bit of therapy. Like, I have a hard time, I think, too, with people who— dating someone who hasn't. And I think we have a lot of callers today that we can help along that line. But what I want to talk to you about first is a little sex of the news. I want to talk to you about the dick click.

The what? Oh, when you're— when your ligament clicks?

No, that's not the dick click. It's new. This was in the news today. You might have— you're probably doing 16 radio shows. No, dude, listen to this. So there are plenty of male contraceptives in development at the moment, but a new switch device has been revealed which may be the strangest of the lot. A new device called the Dick Click works the same way as a vasectomy, but it's like an alternative. Yeah, it operates via surgically inserted valves. Do you know this? And there's literally a click on your penis that would— they could be like, I want the sperm on, I want the sperm off.

Who's gonna remember to do it? It's not—

have been fully researched. Really drunk or something.

Reversible vasectomy. Liposuction have been tried a million times and they're sort of— they don't work.

Or they do. We were talking about before, I'm like, do they work?

They don't work reliably. And this is a company that really doesn't have the research yet to say that.

You see the pictures of it? Have you seen the pictures of it?

What's going on with your hands? Why? Why are they red? I don't know. Is that you?

No, I didn't even—

do your hands get cold when you put them in the refrigerator? Yeah.

You have Raynaud's. Oh, I brushed my teeth. That can't be it. I brushed my teeth with hydrocortisone by mistake earlier. Would that do it? I spit it out right away.

That's pretty smart though. Your hands turn white when they get in the refrigerator or freezer? During a break, we're gonna stick your hands in the freezer and see what happens. Do they hurt when you get in the cold?

Sometimes, yeah, but I avoid the cold like the plague.

Because your hands?

Do you think I have that Raynaud's syndrome?

That's what I think. That's what that looks like.

'Cause they're red like that? I've never noticed that before. Oh my God, I don't know. It's pretty. I don't know what it is, Drew. God, I'm glad it's not the hydrocortisone.

I can feel how hot they are. Push them against— I don't mean— My arm is warm and yours— I am hot. Yeah. No, you're not. You're just— Your hands. They are warm and I'm shaking.

Your arm is not. I wish you could all see this. This is fascinating. Okay, well, I'm feeling good.

Good. It's not— Rhinos as an isolated thing is not a big deal.

My mom has it.

There you go.

But I never had it, but now I'm just becoming my mother in every way, shape, and form. I'm gonna start talking like this.

No, that is not gonna happen. I promise you that's not gonna happen. You've passed that window.

I don't know. Okay, so this thing probably wouldn't happen. Men won't want to take responsibility for this at all, but—

But it's a good idea. Have you seen the—

I just want to show you the switch, you guys. We'll put this on our website, but look at this. It's like they put the switch in their scrotum. Literally.

That's how it would work. Yeah, well, that kind of thing. Men won't take responsibility for anything. The penis implants, the penis pumps, they're kind of like devices like this, but that's a lot of hardware. It's not a minor thing. It's a big deal. So yeah, I had read about that and started like, eh, it's not gonna, probably not gonna happen.

Okay, none of this is gonna happen. The male pill won't happen because men will die.

No, no, male pill will happen. Something like that will happen because it's not about, they cannot do it hormonally in men. You can't do it.

They can't stop the sperm.

Right, you can't, you can't. So it's gonna be some sort of blocking agent, either blocks capacitance, before the sperm can penetrate penetrate the egg, it has to do something called capacitance. The head of the sperm has to change in a certain way that helps it penetrate. So it's either going to interrupt with the movement of the tail or the capacitance, I think. And you think it's really going to happen?

Someday, someday. It's going to take a while. I just feel like that we're spending so much time on the female pills and stuff like that. They're not going to. The men wouldn't take it. They wouldn't be responsible. I don't know. Okay, that's another thing. Should we get some calls, Drew? Is there anything else going on in your world?

Oh, finally. No, no, no, I was going to say finally they have some, finally they're admitting, oh, guess what? Oral contraceptives cause depression in females. Oh my God. They're just saying that? Really sort of coming out with it in a big way. And it's like, no. How many times on Loveline do we say, are you on the shot? Are you on progesterone pills? Every day. Every— right, that's right.

Why don't they warn women at all? I would think that there's more information now, but now we know the fact— I mean, Anna, everything.

Oh my God, Anna. Did Anna have a problem with this?

Anna? No. Did I say Anna? I thought that's what you said. Oh no, I said and on the last show. No, but Anna— I don't know if Anna did, but when I was in the— on the last show, we were talking about how women have no information about sex. They, they're disconnected from their bodies. They— younger girls, like when they're first having sex, Yes, we talked. You're like me. See, I didn't remember either why everyone loved the show because everyone here loved it too with us. So I was like, okay, I'll listen. Yes, I ran. I'm like, I'm going to listen to the show. And I'm like, oh, this was pretty good. It would— we talked all about how women don't under— what did I— I wrote it down because I still don't remember.

I'm sure what I was talking about though was how mystified it makes me that in this day and age how that's possible.

That's what I— I was upset because I had family and friends who have kids who are 17 and they're like, sex hurts. I don't understand sex. I don't masturbate. Gross. And it hurts inside of me. The penis, the condom, ew. And they don't understand. They don't understand sexuality. They don't understand why they should masturbate. They don't even know why to, they don't wanna be vulnerable. So they don't even want relationships with anybody. So they're just having sex to please the guy.

Nothing's changed.

'Cause I felt that way. Right.

And, and you, that means there's something biological in this, right? And so we have to, there's a difference. And guess what? Everybody, men and women are different biologically. So you have to help them with that biology. You have to treat them, and you're trying to get them not to do something, but you can't get them to stop. And females, you're trying to get them to engage with it, to be a part of it. You know, it's funny, I saw something on, do you ever watch that show, this is way out of your demo, but Frankie and the Sex Monitor.

Yes, yes, just because everyone's talking about it. Yeah, I've seen one episode.

Okay, Susan loves, my wife loves that show. And in there, they eventually get a vibrator business. It reminds me of a million times, the second, third season, they really get into this vibrator business. And one of the characters, a male, young male's female partner, they have sex, they do it for a long time, she says it's great, and he leaves the vibrator behind, the mom's vibrator device, which is supposedly this wonderful, super special device.

They are super special.

I'm sure something like that exists in your closet already. We'll get some treats. Yeah, and he hears her after they've had this long session masturbating and making a different sound, and it freaks him the hell out. And I thought, oh, that is so much about the man. And he confronts her, he goes, look, how come I couldn't make it? This is like the man, We want you to have the ultimate experience with our penis. Exactly. How come you— well, I couldn't use it. He was like so upset because she goes, oh no, no, it's not better, it's just different. We're like, okay, here's what I heard, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

It wasn't my penis. My penis was not in the room.

But we have— when you say it's different and it sounds more intense, we just hear we missed out, we didn't hit it right. It's weird. And we can't imagine, we can't literally can't imagine that there's an equivalent experience that's better or good that's not about orgasmic intensity. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause we're fully in that sort of biological zone in our sexuality. No, that's true. Even though we appreciate the connection, we like the intimacy and stuff, in terms of the orgasm part, there's an orgasm. It's either intense or super intense and that's it.

And if it's super intense and you weren't there and it was different, then the ego, it's the ego too.

It's more than ego because it's not— Biology. But it's a language we don't understand. 'Cause I still, as someone who tries to be very attuned to all that, I really don't understand. I watched that scene, I went, I have no idea what she's talking about. And yet, that's a real thing. I know that's a real thing. I really don't know what she's talking about.

It would be like if you used, let's say, a Fleshlight, like a male masturbation sleeve. All you could think about is like, that's still your hand though. I mean, I guess a vibration doesn't feel— You're just saying having an orgasm with a vibrator, not a penis is not, what do you— No, see, you don't understand what I'm saying. I understand what you don't understand.

Right, right, that's the craziness here. You have matter from Mars. Will have more intense experience based on who they're with, novelty, what their eyes are perceiving, and what you're experiencing, right? That's the— that's the rest. That's the— right? Is that—

is there anything I need to add? Vibrator? I'd rather be with a man and like more noise. More noise than vibrator?

What are you talking about?

Huh? Maybe my orgasms more—

uh, maybe you said that orgasm sounded I know, and you just said you make more noise with the vibrator. And I'm jealous for your partners. I'm immediately jealous.

I make a lot of noise.

Am I right? Look, there's another man sitting here. Yeah, he knows.

But Michael, what, you're— you'd be jealous, right?

Yes, it's weird. And there's no reason. I understand it totally.

What about when you masturbate? Isn't it different?

Like, no, it's just, just whatever. It's what we're looking at.

Yeah, but then how couldn't we— but women are threatened all the time by male masturbating. They're like, I don't understand. We're not threatened.

We're hurt, we're disappointed, right?

But women are disappointed all the time by their partners who watch porn. They're like, oh my God, does he want me to—

Threatened? We're not threatened. We're like, why? Why? I'm hurt. Why can't I—

why can't I do that? You don't vibrate, but you just can't. Let's do it. Let's do it. There's actually ones that can attach to your penis, your fingers. We could turn your penis into a—

like, wrap something around it. But then you guys won't— you won't bring it all together.

Like, no, you would. Then you go, no, no, no. So you left, and then we take it off and we leave that here. Let me take it off your penis before you walk out the door. I know, it's all very confusing. Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna take some calls, but this was— this is a good time, right?

I mean, it's, it's, to me, it's something we didn't talk about this at all, and it did come out.

No, we didn't. No, I was just saying we talked about women and sexuality and how confused they are, but no, we—

I don't— but this is, this is the, that difference that, that is a perceptual difference, and we're not teaching kids. Well, but it's, it's, it's the perceptual difference is so profound that we don't understand what each other are talking about. And here you and I are trying to and open to it, and we can't do but because it is such a different experience for men and women.

I know. So people have to go easy on themselves, I think, too, because it's like relationships, they're going to be— it's going to be a challenge if you choose to be with a member of the opposite sex.

But that's just the sexuality part. I mean, then you layer in all of our histories and psychologies and interpersonal craziness, then here we go.

That's why I'm really happy living alone with my 16 vibrators, truly, and dating, and then I have a choice to go home.

Okay, we're going to— anybody interesting?

No, not yet. I have like 3 dates. I hope they're listening. I hope not. They are listening. Here's the problem. So I'm dating guys.

If they weren't upset enough about knowing they couldn't give you the certain sound with their penis, now they're truly crushed. Well done, Emily. No.

Well done. It's a different sound. That was a little castrating ball buster.

I never knew that.

Women make different noises too. Like evolutionarily speaking, wasn't it when they were with a man, a different man, it was like their mating call? Like the more sound, when they made noises louder, screams, it was because their partner was coming home and they were like, you know, they were like, we're talking like cavemen when they would— yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why, like, it's all about like mating calls. Yeah, it is. So I'm like mating call with my vibrator.

No, I understand, but, but it's something that, uh, your, your actual mates are concerned about.

They are listening, some of them, but I— because they find out what I do. I know. And then they listen, and then he's like, so you're gonna bring his lube? He sent me like an emo— he sent me an eggplant emoji as a joke today. I have a date tonight. And then he's like, I wish there was a lube emoji. I'm like, we've never met and you're talking to me about lube, but you've been listening to my podcast. Inappropriate. How dare you? Should I cancel? What are you doing tonight?

I'm always getting you to cancel dates. I know.

Okay, so Drew, drdrew.com, by the way. Is that still what we said, everyone?

Yes, yes.

I wouldn't have known that had I not listened to our yesterday's podcast.

All our podcasts.

It's so interesting to listen. To listen to our— drdrew.com. You have a million podcasts, which just go there and figure it out.

I got This Life, got Weekly Infusion, we have Dr. Drew Podcast, we have the Me and Adam Podcast. So if you have anybody, fans of Loveline out there, Adam and I are still together. There are. We're contemplating, Mike and I are contemplating doing doing one. They've been a podcast because a lot of people like—

Mike, yeah, a lot of people. But we have a lot of international listeners who might not know about Loveline. So you guys are gonna do maybe another podcast in your spare time. You could just do it at the KABC or whatever, right?

Yeah, we could. Yeah, good point.

Okay, good. Should we, uh, give a shout out to our sponsors and we'll be right back? Um, thank you everyone for listening to the show and thank you for supporting our sponsors. Uh, we love them and we only like talk about people and, and work with brands and sponsors that we I actually use, try, believe in, and we hope you will too. Be right back. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Spring calls for a wardrobe refresh, and Nordstrom has the best styles of the season. From dresses and denim to standout tops and accessories, find the trends and essentials that feel right for you. Discover new arrivals from brands you love, like Wayf, Princess Polly, Mango, Adidas, and Free People. Plus free shipping and returns and freestyling appointments make everything so easy. Shop in stores at nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. Okay, so we're gonna take calls cuz we have people. Our first call is from Australia and he just woke up and he's been waiting for us to call. Fantastic. So let's do that. Jeremy, he's 23 from Australia and he's got some, uh, condom conundrums. Hey Jeremy, I'm here with Dr. Dupinsky, my special guest.

Is condom conundrum a new phrase? I just made it up. It's a good one. It should be a little corner, condom conundrums.

The condom conundrums. Hi, Jeremy. Hi, the condom conundrum. Nice. Yes. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Hello. Thank you for calling from Australia. Good morning.

You're our first call. Thank you. I'd just like to say, long time listener, first time caller. I love your work. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, and if it wasn't for listening to your podcast, I'd be doing everything wrong because of, you know, all this information you get from porn.

Exactly, that's what we're talking about. You can't learn from porn. You can enjoy porn, not gonna judge you, but you're not gonna learn from it. Oh, Jeremy, I'm glad you found us.

I did just have kind of my first sexual experience recently, and I think everything was going all right, you know, foreplay was really enjoyable for both of us. And then, yeah, I go to put on the, the plastic and yeah, my boner just sort of— it just goes limp, dies away. Okay. Okay. She's kind of— she's kind of looking at me and I'm looking at her. It's really awful. This happens.

This is— we're gonna help you.

Okay. How old are you? How do you— 23. 23. And this was your very first, very first attempt at intercourse? Yeah. Okay. There's a dirty little secret that the majority of men have— the majority of men have some type of major sexual dysfunction. In their first outing. Yep. It's just absolutely going to happen. Uh, and many times that's merciful for your female partners, provided it's not delayed ejaculation, right? Uh, but you can have delay, you got premature, you got erectile dysfunction, you can have pain. Any, any form of sexual dysfunction is exceedingly common first time out and seemingly out of the blue, right? Like, you don't feel anxious, you're having a good time, and all of a sudden nothing's working. You have somebody else's penis all of a sudden, right? Now, right? Is that what it felt Um, I suppose so.

Yeah, yeah.

Wait, this was just the first time? I want to clear it up. This was just one time it happened, is that what you're saying?

A couple of times now. Okay.

Oh, and yeah, so every time. Okay, so, so the next time you worry it's gonna happen again, it can make it happen again, right? But, but some— a lot of men have difficulty, uh, sustaining erection when they put a condom on. That's just a chronic problem for some men. And what we've always told people, we used to tell people on Loveline Uh, what do we tell them? We would tell them to practice. To practice. I'm sure you practice skateboarding and surfing and a million other things. Practice when you masturbate. Practice putting a condom on without losing your erection and masturbate with condom on.

Exactly.

Practice. Tune your penis up to the condom, uh, and, you know, find the one that works for you and find one that's good. But, but practice putting it on and then practicing what it feels like having an experience with the condom on, with your whatever, whatever Emily devices you're using. Yeah, exactly.

No, I think that's, I think that's a really good point. I remember that, to practice with condom, because I think if you've only— you've had sex a few times and you remember, like, it does— it's true, if you get the first time, you came too quickly or you got limp, and then you're like, oh, it's gonna happen again. The other thing is, I'm not sure what kind of condom you're using, but there's so many kind of condoms out there right now that it could be the wrong size. You might not have enough lubrication. Um, my favorite— you've heard me talk about skin condoms, SKYN. They're polyisoprene, they're non-latex, they are the best condoms.

They do say skin? Yeah, SKYN.

I'm sure they have. Yeah, they're by Lifestyles. Like, Lifestyles makes great condoms too, They're like a— they're a, uh, you know, a brand. Like their brand underneath the Lifestyles brand, and they're amazing. And so I think even just switching it up to get like a variety pack online— go to my website, I think we have a bunch of them on my website. But you're in Australia, do we mail to Australia? I'm not sure. We do? Awesome. So, um, check them out. Try— it's all this stuff, getting new information, practicing, and getting new condoms. You're gonna be fine.

I'm so not worried. By the way, your female partner, she doesn't care. No, she either is having one of two experiences. Experiences. She doesn't care and she feels bad for you, but there's always a little twinge of, he's not that attracted to me. They always have that weird— and it's never about that. In fact, the erectile dysfunction is more likely to occur when the guy is too attracted, too into it. The anxiety then makes you, you know, not work. That's true.

She's thinking— perhaps she could be thinking, oh, I— he's not hard enough.

You got to reassure her. You got to reassure her. I gained 3 pounds. So into you.

Yeah, tell her how to worry about the wrong stuff.

Oh my God.

That's what we could do another show on too, body image. But it's true, yeah. So she's not thinking, but I would reassure her, tell her, you know, don't just ignore it if it happened 3 times with the same person, 'cause she knows she was there. You know what I'm saying? So, okay, good.

Normally we, intercourse just, you know, goes off the table and we just sort of play around instead. That's great, she's a huge fan of foreplay. I can try practicing.

Try practicing, I love it.

Try skin contact. We're going anyway with this.

Yeah, make sure the right size and all that. Okay, let me know how it goes.

Necessarily for her. Credo to all men, all males, all males: more oral sex for female partners. Dude, yes, right? I mean, yes, don't be ridiculous. Right? Except for that one little 5% that's stealing all the orgasms that don't like oral sex.

And like, you don't even know who those women are.

They're very rare. They're, they're, they're uniforms.

No, no, no, no, no. Because now other people are like, well, she must just—

yeah, she must be in my fieldwork. In my fieldwork, women die.

No, I don't really think you made it up. You wouldn't make stuff up like that. I might. Our next call is Amy. She's 29 from Seattle, and her boyfriend wants more sex than she does. What? Never. Hey Amy, this is Emily, and I have special guest Dr. Drew Pinsky here.

We're both here to help. Hi Emily, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

I'm doing well, thank you.

Welcome to the show. So mismatched sexual desire, probably the most common problem that a couple ever gets sexually anyway. Uh, and so yeah, and, uh, the first thing to ask always is is what's he looking for and what are you looking for? What are the actual numbers?

He would be happy with twice a day, probably, if not more. Oh my God. I'm happy with like maybe 4 or 5 times a week. Okay. Well, that seems—

Yeah. I would say that's pretty fair.

I would say normal. Yeah.

So when— But that's pretty good. When guys go crazy like that, that's pretty crazy rate. It's not, I wouldn't call it abnormal, but it's like, huh, either that guy's got an amazing engine addiction, which some guys just do. That's just their rhythm. How old is he?

32. Okay.

But more often than not, there's something else going on when it's really at that rate. We go, oh my God, how could you even physically do it? Then you worry about manic episodes, like he may have hypomanic. Does he have bipolar disorder? Anybody like that in his family? Nope, not that I'm aware of. Okay. And then sex addiction is the other thing we kind of think about when somebody's really going and add it to a point where it's physically almost impossible. Or it's just him, and there is such a thing as just that at twice a day. So—

What do you— Yeah, I mean, does any of this resonate with you at all, Amy? Because I feel like— How is he handling it when you're like, "No, I don't want to have it twice a day." Is this a fight? Are you guys— Is he like, "That's cool"? How are you guys dealing with this?

It doesn't always escalate to a fight, but it definitely is a tense area in our relationship. And he takes it personally. Like, he thinks that it's not like I don't want to be with him. Like, why wouldn't I want—

that's every time a woman says no.

We always do. We always do. We always do. And we have to get used to it chronically because every one of us males gets in that position where their female partners are saying no. Uh, God forbid if we turn them down once, they'll freak the hell out. But, but we get used to it.

What happens when you try to talk about this?

It really depends, but he's, he's really open. We like, we, we've been best friends for over 4 years. We communicate really well, but it's hard for him not to let his testosterone take over and he gets kind of frustrated and kind of angry and not in like a violent way, but just like you can tell he's like, he isn't getting what he wants and therefore he gets frustrated.

Really, it is about compromise. It's about saying like, you know, I, we got to talk about this cause that's just not going to happen twice a day. But maybe if you have expectations about when it is going to happen, What are you able to maintain?

What are you actually pulling off for him, so to speak?

Um, probably right around 4, 5 times a week.

Well, okay, so what I'm happy with. Yeah, but maybe you ought to— you got to meet him in the middle a little bit, right? Maybe you got the middle. No, no, that's what she wants. Maybe she's got to go beyond what she wants and do a little bit more, right? 5 times. Why should it be only what she wants, right?

Because like life— yeah, I mean, so what would that be? That would be 6 or 7 days a week.

Yeah, I think you would. I think you would.

I guess I'm trying to balance and make sure I get my personal time in too. I really like just going to bed early sometimes.

I really like flirting. I don't always—

sometimes I just want to do me.

There was some research came out that showed that partners will take sleep over sex most times. And I found that— They will what?

They'll take sleep over sex?

They prefer— when they're tired, they will—

Oh, choose sleep over sex.

Choose sleep. And I thought to myself, that's a mistake. I understand it. I get it. But it's not— you need to prioritize your relationship.

Well, I always say you got to prioritize your sex life in relationship. It really is important. Is this the guy you're going to be with? You think you're going to get married, have children, spend the rest of your life with them?

Yep, that's, that's the plan.

Okay, well, if that's the plan, then this is the most important thing. Same thing going away. Problem with sex— if there's a problem with sex in the relationship, there's gonna be problems all over the relationship. So I think you guys do have to find a healthy way without fighting, with, you know, really communicate, you know, just say we've got to talk about this. If it's a compromise, or if it's like you're not going to get it every time you want it, but maybe it's like, you know, maybe it's twice on Saturdays or something like the weekend when you're not tired, or you adjust the times, you get up a little earlier so you can sleep at night. But it is about compromise, and it is about talking about it so he doesn't get frustrated. He knows what to expect. Scheduling sex— I always thought it was a horrible idea, but I know that can actually work. It could take a lot of the pressure off you, laugh of him.

So, but don't, don't Don't— this one I hate—

don't schedule it and then back out. Yeah, you can't bail on a sex date. You can't bail on a sex date. Yeah, but I just think you have to find a way of communicating to him about this in a healthy way without anger, without escalation. When you're not in the home, you're not having bed, communication.

And again, you need to step it up a little bit and then you need to look at him honestly. Like, is there— is he sort of hypomanic? Hypomania is not a bad thing, but, you know, our president's hypomanic.

Does he masturbate?

Is he masturbating? Right. And there are other things he can do to take care of himself and ask him like, Hey, you need to take some responsibility for your own sexuality too. You can't—

what it is, see, twice a day to me is a little— I'm sorry, but I always think like it is— I don't think she's to step up to that.

I feel like if she gets 6 or 7 times a week, I bet he settles down, number 1. I'm exhausted. And then number 2, there's something we don't talk about enough, is that, that we shouldn't be burdening our partners with the totality of our sexual needs, whatever that might be. In other words, that's kind of unfair.

That's why the vibrator. Why are you guys so upset that I'm using the vibrator without you?

It's what you— what it sounds like when you do this.

Sorry, Amy, we were talking about how vibrators men don't get, whether they They just feel different, not better than you. No, no. And I get you on your self-love times. I think there's a way to talk to him about this that's like, you're probably having the same conversation over and over again. It's not going anywhere. So it's like taking it out of the house when you guys are like, you know, not in the bedroom and just saying, listen, I love you. We've got to find a way to work this out through compromise without you getting angry. Buy him a flashlight, you know, give him time to masturbate, do his own thing. So you're both like satisfied, which I think you can do. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I think that's definitely the key.

Okay, cool. Thanks, Amy. So glad to talk to you. Bye. That is a big— that I would say that is one of the top questions we get asked about mismatched libidos all the time.

It's men and women. Like, to me, it's bizarre that people aren't aware that that's likely to happen. They sort of prepare for it, work it out, and figure it out and stuff. None of these things.

People are huge fans, but they ask every day. Every day. That's why we're here on the planet. Okay, next call is Marie, 33, from Boston, and she wants to know how to have pleasurable sex during pregnancy. Hi, Marie. Emily, I'm here with Dr. Dupinsky, my special guest today. So we're both here to help you with this.

Hi, good afternoon.

How are you? We're so good.

So tell me what's going on. Yeah, and I'm super excited about the guest as well.

Yeah, it's good. Drew, she's excited by you. Yeah, you got it. Hey there. Hi.

She may be one of that 1% I was just talking about. What?

Okay, Drew's— okay, tell us, tell us what's going on. Drew's already jumping to conclusions about you here. Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, no, no worries. And first of all, can you hear me okay? I'm using, um, my headphones. You sound great. You sound amazing. Okay, great. So, um, basically, so right now I'm 20 weeks pregnant. I'll be 21 weeks on Friday. Okay. I found out on— it was week 19, so it'll be 2 weeks ago Friday— that I— so the baby's fine. We had the full-on ultrasound. Everything with the baby is perfect. My health is great, so that is a huge plus. Us. But one thing we found out is I have a condition called placenta previa. Oh, which—

that's what I was afraid. Yeah, that's the one time you got to be extra super careful with all this, right? Yeah. Huh. Exactly. Have they, have they forbidden intercourse because of it? They have. Okay. And plus, let's just tell everybody, placenta previa is where the placenta— it's not in the right position. Not right, it's in an unusual position position so it lies over the cervix. And as such, if you stimulate the cervix, you can start bleeding and cause all kinds of problems. You don't want to disrupt the attachment of the placenta.

Right. So you can't— so yeah, your issue that you can't have intercourse, you're trying to figure out what else to do, right?

I told you this is somebody that likes intercourse.

You did say that.

Yes, I am.

And this is somebody who orgasms with him. Do you orgasm through intercourse? I do. And she has a lot of juice. And you have more than one orgasm typically, right?

Typically one, but I do— it is like a build, like smaller orgasms up into like a bigger orgasm. Right.

Has any of that changed during pregnancy?

It has not, actually. And I will say I do feel more stimulated.

Yeah, it's gonna get even more in the third, you know, later on.

But your question is about how you guys can really connect now that you can't have intercourse.

Here's Here's the problem. You gotta zero in on this. She's in the category that doesn't really like oral sex so much. You see?

Do you not like oral sex?

No, I do, but not as much. So what I want to really get down to is, you know, how I can—

I just feel like— So hold on, Emily, that's why I brought this up.

Okay, when Drew and I were on Loveline, or his whole life on Loveline, he says that women, there's a lot of women who don't love oral sex.

Not a lot of women, not a lot of women, a tiny minority. Tiny, tiny minority of women. They prefer intercourse and they orgasm with intercourse more readily.

And when they have— but I thought you were saying that you said these women don't like oral sex.

No, the ones that are super sensitive, they have multiple, multiple orgasms, they find oral sex unpleasant. That's the part I like. This young lady's in the middle. This lady's in the middle.

Okay, fine, you're in the middle. You're trying to prove a point because I told you—

okay, Drew, let's— everyone, they're all snowflowers, honey.

They're all snowflakes. Vaginas are snowflakes. We're all snowflakes and we all have our own challenges and they're beautiful.

But see, what the problem is with her, she can't, it's her, and can't do all the stuff that really gives her a real orgasm. She can only do external stimulation, which is not as satisfying to her.

Right. So. Exactly, exactly. And also I find, you know, I love my husband to death and I, you know, we have great sex and we've had great sex throughout our relationship. So this is a huge thing to lose that. And he tries to, you know, reassure me it's not all about that. And I get it. And he's just, he's been really good about it. And for me, it's just. I feel like with that lacking. Like, without that, it may affect our relationship or. No, no, no.

See, that's what I wanted. He's gonna be fine. Like, if you're okay with it.

Good men get their shit together. When he is protecting you and treating you like the vulnerable person, you know, this vulnerable state you're in, if he's responding to all that, believe me, his whole brain shifts into that mode.

So yeah, absolutely. I wouldn't be— and also, we also have a blog that we just put on our website this week. Helena, who works with me, she's, she's actually pregnant, and she just did a lot of toy recommendations, and it's about a pregnancy sex blog. And she might be—

oh, put in the placenta preview thing too, so people, you know.

Yeah, so anyway, it gives you a lot of like ideas about which toys to use, which positions are more comfortable. But I really think, because in your email you were saying when you initially contacted us, you were like, you were really worried about your husband more than you— because you're kind of— you're okay, you're getting pleased. But I feel like, yeah, he's a good guy, he's gonna be fine, not gonna damage your relationship. Relationship. You're totally fine. Because I swear to God, because I'm not able to give him like the actual sex.

And he reassures me, he's like, I'm fine.

Like, I can go on without it. Oh no, it's fine, honey. Give him a blow job, use a flashlight.

We need to study this one. She's like the, the perfect wife.

She's like the perfect— I know, she's— no, really, the whole email was about she's worried he's gonna leave. No, no, no.

Well, if that's your worry, that's—

then that's not leave, but it's gonna ruin their relationship. Yeah, but she thought he's gonna be really upset, and I feel like there's a lot of other ways to connect, but it's different It's different when you're just not into it. It's not like you have a headache for 6 months, right?

You have extremely important medical needs that are being attended to that are prioritized. And believe me, he will share that priority. Yeah, flashlight, blowjobs, you're fine.

He's gonna be happy. Handjobs, yeah, no, that makes lots of lube, you're good. Yeah, no, thank you.

And we are doing those things. And, um, over the last couple weeks when this has just settled, I, I have felt better. But I feel like I did— I'm so glad that you responded because at least to my email, because I feel like a lot of women out there have this or cannot have sex during pregnancy. So true. They're wondering, you know, what else I can do. And it's just something that's not— I didn't even know this was a condition before I got pregnant.

Yeah, exactly.

I didn't even know.

Yeah, you guys have to figure it all out as you're going along.

You're like, trust me, there are many medical things out there, many medical wondrous things waiting to interfere with your sexuality.

No, I know, honey, just stick with it and Again, we have this great blog on our site we just published and you should check that out. We'll tweet it out this week, but you can go to our website now. I just wish you luck and don't worry, everybody loves you. Thank you.

One quick thing for Dr. Drew is orgasms still— my doctor doesn't seem to be worried about the orgasms with this condition. I do read some things online that are like, "Oh, stay away from orgasming." I just wanted to—

I'm not an obstetrician, but that's not— it's usually the actual disruption, the mechanical disruption. Rather than the contractions associated with orgasm. So unless you really have a very unstable placenta previa, and you certainly always ask your doctors or ask the nurse who picks up at their service, whatever, and just double-check, but I don't think there'd be any problem with that as long as you're not inserting anything.

Yeah, no insertion for a little bit. Okay, good luck to you. Bye, Marie.

Thanks. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Bye. Okay, so there's your 1, 2%, maybe.

She's in the middle. I've always said there's a middle zone too. Middle zone. Yeah, no, I did not. How did I know? How did I know?

How did I know? Just know the woman, like, before they speak, you know what her vagina— no, the vagina whisperer.

No, there's, there's too many years on the radio.

I know, I got it. Yeah, pregnant sex, it's like this whole mystery, because when else would you study pregnant sex until you're pregnant?

So what is the purpose of all this sex stuff anyway, if not to reproduce and have a pregnancy? There's, there's that. That's one of the— I'll grant you, true.

Then I'm just like, what am I doing with my life?

Well, I'm not having your pleasure and Intimacy and all this stuff too. Pleasure, intimacy. But I'm glad you're blogging about it, 'cause that's good, 'cause that's gonna get, people need that information. I've encouraged you over the years to do certain. Have a baby? Well.

Just kidding, no. You have not encouraged me to do that.

No, I've encouraged you to like, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Include in this conversation things about medical conditions and sexuality and stuff, 'cause that's, you know, it's common.

Very common, and the pain, a lot of women feel so much pain during sex.

Yeah, and people don't think about pregnancy as a medical condition, It is a medical condition, right?

That's what we're doing. And Helene is, you know, pregnant. She's very interested. We've given her lots of toys. She's keeping very busy.

What's the best one? Oh, she's tired. What's the best one? Best toy?

The magic wand. It's magic. It's magic. And the C-ring. And did you try the Wish yet? I'm obsessed. The Wish?

Get it out of the closet, somebody. It's amazing. Anytime Emily shows, oh my God, I gotta see what it is.

You understand? It's a clitoral vibe, but it's, do you know the clitoris has legs? Yes.

Like there's the legs. Yes, so that go off too.

Right, so it's your internal and external clitoral nerves. And that's what I'm all about. Like the lay bit you put in. Yeah, yeah. It's squishy and soft. It's by We-Vibe. Oh, you like that. I'm obsessed with it. Okay. Remember I love the Jeju Mimi?

Yes, there's like a mushy version of that?

This is a mushy, bigger, more clitorally stimulating vibe that I would change my middle name to Wish. It's Hope right now. I was like, forget Hope, it's gonna be Emily Wish Morse.

Emily Morse. Is this rechargeable?

Yeah. Do you want it? Yeah. Okay. We're in. I knew it. Just don't lose the charger. Okay. Should we— not you. No. I hear from his wife, can we get a charger to things again? Just from Susan. Yes.

She can't keep track of one charger. I know. So all these things you give us, if they don't have chargers—

Should I put a label on it?

If they're not battery operated, we quickly—

But they don't make the battery operated ones. They're not as powerful and fun. We've got R. He's 40, Miami, and he feels stuck with dating and he's falling for women where he's clear he's not necessarily their first choice. Hi, R. I know I'm here with Dr. Drew Pinsky, my special guest today, so you've got two of us here to help you through this. Hi, how are you? Dating challenges. Hi, what's going on?

Well, kind of stuck in, I guess, the eternal friendship. The friend zone. Yeah, I don't know if it's— you know, we've got great chemistry, we talk a lot, I mean, this is one person in particular. Okay. Um, we met through a dating app 3 years ago and, uh, dated for a while. Nothing really happened there. Um, and she got back together with, uh, her boyfriend and there's a lot of relationship trauma there that has continued on over— okay. Yeah. But she—

over the 2 or 3 years, you're— stop thinking you're going to rescue her from that. Stop pit.

You're acting like a friend, she's gonna treat you like a friend. See, that's how you get into the friend zone, is when you start being a friend.

Also, women put you in the friend zone, and once you're there, you are there.

Yeah, but you could avoid— yes, that's true. You're not gonna get out of it. Are like, are you in love with her and you think she's gonna all of a sudden get through all this men's stuff and come to you?

Because that probably won't happen. No, I mean, I—

even if it does happen, when it does, when they retreat to the friend, it only lasts a few months and then really shatters the guy.

Definitely. Yeah.

I mean, got to be honest. Yeah. Listen, I just feel like for guys, and this is a lot of your own work to do on yourself, but really women, when we see you as a friend, you start acting— you said you talk on the phone for hours and maybe you put the gas in our car or you did this errand and you listen.

I'm going to be a little harsher. I'm going to look a little harsher because we're seeing a lot of this in millennials right now. And it's— let's call it what it is. It's stalking behavior. That's what it is. It's stalking light. It's— you're stalking her in hopes of cultivating a relationship one day, and she has no idea that's what you're doing. She just thinks you're the friend. And it is a little obsessive. It is. And if you can settle for just friend, you want to be just a friend, that's fine. But don't kid yourself that it's part— because if you're cultivating, if you're grooming— stalker. No, but that's what it is. It's stalking behavior. I'm not calling him a stalker.

I had no—

okay, it's stalking behavior.

I understand.

Okay. And it's unhealthy for I am. I, I don't want to stop.

I think it's unhealthy. I can understand that. No, I understand for you that it is unhealthy to keep hanging out unless you're getting a lot from it and she's helping you as well with your issues and whatever is going on with your life, and it's like a mutually beneficial relationship. But if you're just kind of— you're there and you're the friend, but you're waiting, you're pining away for her.

And they, they all— this is a sort of a typical concept, which is the woman who goes after the powerful abusive male repeatedly because of dad. That's her relationship with that, and she keeps in the bullpen the guy she should be with and just keeps in there because she knows she should be, and she likes— she needs that kind of connection on hand. It's too exploitative of the man. He— I don't, I don't want to— she's guilty too, but he's in the meantime falling for it and stalking.

What do you think about this? How does that make you feel? Does that resonate with you at all?

I can see some of it. I, I mean, I definitely see her as a good friend and probably one of my best friends. I don't necessarily Stalking, I think, might be a little bit hard.

No, I think it's— he's just saying in general, like, that the fact that it's not reciprocated.

I'm saying it's, it's, it's a, it's a construct. As a construct, it's, it's stalking behavior. You're not a stalker. You don't mean anything wrong with her. Yeah, it's not unethical. Yeah, it's just, it's for you. For you, it's that kind of behavior. It's an obsession. It's— you one day— and if you can just be her friend, then cool, be her friend.

Then it's It's not anything. Yeah. Is that what you're— was that your question? This is kind of a pattern, or was it for you that like a lot of women, or is it more about this one woman?

Your question? I think it's more this one woman. It's been 3 years. Yeah, it's been a complicated relationship because it's not only, you know, we not only talk about ourselves and her, we don't really talk about her current situation. You know, we talk We're all like really good friends. We check in with each other daily.

Then you're friends, but there's no sexual energy that would make it a relationship.

I mean, we've never even kissed.

So then what's the question then? How can we help you with it?

I guess I'm trying to emotionally move on. Yeah. Why? Because that's kind of the hardest part is as I try to start dating, I always find myself just coming back to her energy, her attention.

Right. So it's good.

You got to pull back on that for me. Right.

Of course. So we sleep with our exes and it's the same thing. It's comfortable. It's safe. She knows you, you know her. But if you really want to be in a relationship, the more that you talk to her and the more that you keep her in your world, it's not that you can't be friends, but you're just going to have to ease up on it. It's practice. And she has been a part of your life and I get it. But it's like when I tell people to break up with somebody, it's like you can't keep talking to them all the time. And what do we tell people? Tell people, we tell 6 months, a year without talking to me. Don't talk about Facebook.

Because it's like an addiction. It's the same part of the brain going on.

It is addictive. Exactly.

You have to break it. You have to break the biology and then you can go back and be okay. Yeah.

But if you really are serious about a relationship, you do have to break it with her. And I know it's really hard because you're close and intimate, but it's— you're just going to have to— if you can pull back, that's great, but you probably have to go cold turkey.

Okay? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I, I can see that. Okay.

Or get some therapy, get some support. You have somebody in your corner really process all this stuff.

Huge fan of therapy. Yeah. If you haven't had therapy yet, just like go, you know, tomorrow. No, definitely. Okay.

I have my emotional support group. Perfect.

Okay, good. Your emotional support group. You, you have an emotional support group already?

Yeah. That's code for something.

That's, yeah. What does that mean?

Well, we've got a, a very good group of friends. Um, okay. You know, Between health issues and personal issues, we just— that's good. We just try to be there.

What are the health issues?

Yeah, what's your health? Okay, what are the health issues?

Well, um, within the social circle, there are members that are—

no, no, we're worrying about you. Worry about—

no, me, me, no. Okay, none whatsoever.

Okay, I'm just saying therapy, you know, your friends— I have amazing friends and family too, but therapy does it like nothing else. If this has been something that's been in your life for a while, you know, could be helpful.

Okay, okay.

Bye, Art. Thank you. Thanks for calling. Have a great day. Bye. Yeah, stalker.

But I guess he's not a stalker. I'm like, oh, I don't— I— but I have to use that language to get through to people.

I think, I think it does.

It's true. Or you— or we could use the addiction language. It's the same thing. You're addicted to this woman. You're, you know, you're craving, you're fine, you can't go break the habit.

It is just like the breakup. You got to do it.

Yeah. And it's the same part of the brain. I mean, I'm familiar with that part of the brain, and so I know what people are responding to that reward system.

I mean, we were saying we heard so much— he was 40, but we heard, we hear about this so much more now from men, young men, millennials, men more than women who are like obsessed with their first love.

They're stalking those guys.

Those guys are— let's see, that's what you're talking about. Those are the stalkers that we talk about.

I didn't mean— I choose my language carefully. Stalking behavior is not you are stalking or you're a stalker. It's like stalking behavior. I got it.

It's on the spectrum of stalking.

Okay. Well, it's related to it.

I get it.

That's why I want people to think about that, 'cause it kind of wakes you up. You go, "Oh, that is kind of what I'm doing, isn't it? I'm really not doing that, but if I did a little more, that's what that would be." But he's seeing it as a mutual, they're both, you know. He's in denial too, he's addicted.

Well, let's see what happens. It is addictive behavior, and it's true, even with friends, it's hard to give up.

I want to protect him from this. I do too.

Well, you did it. I think that was good. I think he's gonna wake up. I think we woke him up. Okay, we have Carmen, 31, from San Francisco. I love San Francisco. And Carmen and her boyfriend haven't had good sober sex, and they're both struggling to find her G-spot.

Wait a minute, slow down.

It's really sober sober, or we like—

like, I don't know, we're gonna ask her. Carmen, hi, this is Emily. Dr. Drew's here with me, Dr. Drew Pinsky. You've got two of us here.

Wow, on the case today. Um, hi there, how are you? Great, what's happening? Um, so like Emily was saying, I, um, I've been with my boyfriend for almost a year now, and, um, since the beginning, I would say about 2 to 3 months into it, he had opened up feeling sexually frustrated. And what does that mean? Pretty much telling me, right? Exactly. So I asked him to elaborate, and he pretty much told me that I wasn't aggressive. And I— hang on a second, hang on.

So hold on, he means— he means you usually— I'm thinking I'm trying to translate through the young male prism.

Is he in his 20s still? No, we're both 31.

Okay. So I'm imagining he means you're not initiating enough.

Well, that's the funny part because he's even admitted that I initiate more than him. So then what does he mean by aggressive?

He wants you to dominate him?

See, this is what I've asked because he's not— I've asked him that. Like, he's not into like the BDSM thing or anything like that. He has trouble explaining the aggression. I'm not sure. I know that he's been married before, and his past relationship with his wife, they had a very abusive relationship. And so I don't know if, you know, it was more like hate sex that he's referring to. But apparently I'm just— he wants me to take the lead sometimes, I guess, and I'm not doing it even though I feel like I am.

Can he be more explicit?

He's got to be more like, could you watch some porn together that shows what kind of sexual acts he's depicting? You know, he has in his mind, or he'd like to— I mean, I really think this is interesting to me. Like, I'm thinking—

you guys watch Big Little Lies? Did he like that kind of sex? Oh, it's so good. That's funny.

I've been wanting him to see that.

Well, maybe if it's that, then run, airlift into a therapist's office. You need some—

you need some visuals here. You need— if he can't express it in words, which I can understand, sometimes it's just hard to explain things that you're feeling or that you want, but it's not fair for him just to say aggressive, I want more of this, I want, you know, and you initiate more than I do.

To be fair, young men really have We have, we have tough times.

But he wants it so bad.

Is this the main issue? It's hard for us to describe it sometimes. So I get that. But I totally agree with Emily. Watch things or, you know, look at it. Would you like that? Do you want this? How about that?

Right. Yeah. Kind of like point things out like a kid, like a little picture book.

But I'm a little worried. I'm a little— are you nervous too, what you're going to find out?

Not so nervous. I just wish he was more open with me about it because he shuts down. He tells me that he's never had an issue in his past relationship with, um, you know, maybe a girl not climaxing or— Oh, you're not having an orgasm? Yeah, that's the other problem is I'm not having orgasms and I'm obviously not faking it with him and I'm explaining him this and he gets frustrated and he says that he's never had that issue before in the past and that I need to figure it out.

Okay, hold on. Number one, that's not true.

Yeah, how many partners has he had, you know? Um, he, he divorced about 2 years ago, and since that, he said he's dated a lot, but I don't think he's actually seriously dated anyone since me. I think they're all been kind of—

he's been with like 1 or 2 people.

He doesn't understand how women work. Women—

most women don't have orgasms during intercourse. Yeah, vast majority. Only 30% do. He doesn't believe you? Does he not listen? You guys should just— this is what you do: watch some porn, listen to this podcast together. A lot of couples find it really helpful to listen to this podcast because it's so hard to talk about sex.

He's Is not focusing on oral sex for you? Yeah, how about oral sex?

Oh no, yeah, no, oral sex, he— yeah, he does oral for me and I'm fine. I usually get off like that. It's more vaginal. I cannot—

no, that's you. That's just the way you are.

If I do oral on him, well, that's—

I'm better that way too.

Yeah, but it's okay for him not to come from your blowjob, but then you can't come during sex and he just still hasn't gotten the memo, which everybody should know by now, that women don't orgasm. Most women have an orgasm with oral sex.

That's how they do it. Yeah, he's gonna be— he's— that's most women, and he's going to be very disappointed out in the world. Yeah, that's so ridiculous on his part. Yeah.

And he doesn't want to work with you on what— I'm not— for— he's like told you to go figure it out. Like, I'm not loving this language. I know you're not worried about what he's gonna find out, but I was feeling a little nervous too when you were saying aggressive, but it's not about initiation. I think it is.

I think it's all about the orgasm though. I really think it is. It can be.

He thinks if she gets less of a male—

well, no, he thinks if if she can do what she needs to do, she'll have an orgasm. But she's not doing what she needs to do. But she don't know what she needs to do. She won't take it. Right. She can't do anything except give him, have him give her oral sex. That's what she can do.

No, but he wants her to have an orgasm during penetration. It's not gonna happen. Right. But he doesn't believe her. Right. So, God, I mean, Google it. Go to my website. I have a million blogs on there. I mean, this is just scientific facts, evidence, women polls, a million of them have been done that women, it's just, they just not common. I mean, 30% can, and of those women, it's not every single time. But you could go looking for your G-spot together because you haven't yet. Though here's the other thing, sweetie, just because you haven't had an orgasm yet with him doesn't mean you won't during intercourse.

I wouldn't give this guy that yet because that's, that's right, that's a, that's graduate school for this guy. He's got to first really get it right. It could be fun.

You guys could go doing it together, like you could be.

But I'm just saying, if she— then by the way, totally focused on them, every— he won't let you know. He's— I just know how he's gonna be. He's gonna be completely about that. That and, you know, all about fixing her and getting— making it right. And why can't she? It's better than saying go fix it on your own. But first though, I'm saying focus on her pleasure and do that for a few months.

That's not the problem. The problem is that she's not—

it sounds like she's not satisfied too.

No, are you not satisfied?

I'm not satisfied because I can't come. But like, he is very passionate and he does focus on me a lot. But I would say honestly, the last couple months though, they have been purely quickies, and that's been, I think, the most unsatisfied. Yeah.

And is he making sure that you're at least having another kind of orgasm when you do the quickies? No, not really. Okay, well then that's the conversation you say with him. Say, I can't explain this, unlike your aggressive sex you want. Guess what I can explain? During that quickie, I wasn't even turned on. I didn't even see you walk in the room. You had an orgasm and I'm not even turned on yet.

Let me try translate for him. I know what he means by aggressive sex now. I know what he means. He wants her to take control and do whatever she needs to do with him so she has the orgasm, right? Leave that in 15 minutes or less or whatever. But she, she's not, she's not taking control and showing him what he needs, you know.

He wants you to be riding on top like in porn and having like 3 orgasms on top of his penis. Exactly. That's what he wants. I got it. You're right, Drew. I think, yep, he's watching porn. He's like, do that, be aggressive. Meaning be aggressive with yourself so you can make yourself calm on top of me.

Exactly. Or wherever.

You got this. Yeah, that's it, honey. And you know what? Fuck him. Sorry.

No, I'm with you. I'm with you.

I'm pissed too. Yeah, now I'm angry.

That's right. That's why I was saying don't go to the G-spot thing yet. Well, I just think that's a reward for him later.

Female anatomy and the way women work, and like, it's not that simple. Like, he's not turning you on. He's not doing foreplay. Maybe he did at the beginning and now he's into quickies, but just do your Like, you know, and I'm not saying you can't learn this, I don't mean fuck him. I never say that. That's really not something I would say. I'm sure he's a great dude. You're making me all aggressive. Just like your boyfriend. Be like me, tell him to fuck off. No, but I really think that this, if you do love this guy, how long have you been together?

A year. Okay.

I mean, I'd say the sex, don't let it just, you're gonna keep having quickies and then you're gonna have minutiae, which is less than a quickie.

Well, but the point is, she, listen, all we need to do, here's the bottom line here. Let's wrap this up. We gotta wrap it up. Drew's gotta go. The bottom line is— bottom line is it's Carmen, right? Carmen. Carmen. The bottom line is San Diego, you're on it. San Francisco, you got it right. We are backing you 100%. We support you. There's nothing wrong with what you're saying and what you're feeling. He's a little off base. He's been distorted by his marriage, where obviously she was a different biology, and he thought, you know, men are all— or porn, which doesn't help. And what men think, they figure one woman out, they figure that's how they all are. That's— we do that as men and you've got to bring him up into reality. And that's not his fault, but he needs to, in the meantime, be much more— what would the word be? Empathic? I don't think that's quite right. I don't know. Reasonable. Just reasonable about what he is.

Yeah, he's got to be willing to know what he doesn't know. He's got to admit that there's some things that he doesn't know, that he might be wrong in this case, and to listen to some podcasts.

We got you. We are in your corner.

Yeah, we got you, Carmen. Okay. Take care of yourself, okay?

Thank you. Don't give up the fight.

Bye, sweetie. Have a great day. Emily, it's always fun.

I got to go.

Oh, Drew, so fun. I know. Love seeing you. Thank you for being here. Check out—

we just go right back into our old mode.

I know, we got to come back. Come back soon. Um, I want to check out Drew's podcast, drdrew.com. Please check out their own website and all Twitter stuff.

The We Wish vibe, whatever.

The Wish vibe by WeVibe. You're going to love it. I should give you some JoLu before you go. Okay, I want a backpack full of it, you said. Oh yeah, yeah, whatever you want. Okay, that was a good time. I love having my friend Dr. Drew here, and it's really such a pleasure talking to everybody. It feels really good. I feel very connected to you during the calls and reading your emails and all of that. So thank you everybody for listening and thanks for subscribing to the show. We're actually doing 3 shows now a week, at least for a little bit. We did, we definitely did shows on Tuesdays and Fridays. We've got some quickie shows coming out in the middle of the week. It really helps if you subscribe to the show just because then you never miss a show. And you can also review us on iTunes. We appreciate that. I just appreciate you. And thanks to my amazing team. And thanks everyone for listening. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithjenn Emily.com.