Episode 304 - Why He Disappeared

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Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they called them in a bygone day. Hey Emily, you got a boyfriend? 'Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my.

Do women know about shrinkage?

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks? Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my God. That feels so good.

Being bad feels pretty good.

Well, you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. Okay. Hi, you're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information about Sex with Emily, you can find everything you need at sexwithemily.com. We've got all the sex and information advice, dating, relationships. We've got our blogs, we've got our polls, we're doing giveaways, we're doing a lot of fun things. So you wanna check out Sex with Emily. And thanks everyone for becoming a Friends with Benefits member. We so appreciate that. And there's all that information about it on our site. I've We've got a special guest here today. Evan Marquette is a dating coach extraordinaire. You are the man. Like, when I think dating coach, I think Evan Marquette.

It's nice to be number one in the field of one.

No, there's others out there trying to creep in. Like, you're no Evan Marquette.

I tease. Thank you very much. And it's nice. I've been doing this for 8 years or something ridiculous like that now. Beats working for a living.

Totally.

I think, just like you.

Yes.

You do this long enough and you start off, you're doing it because it's just something to do, and then eventually you look up and you're like, oh, I can do this.

I can do this. I'm doing it. So tell me, why do people need a dating coach? What is a dating coach?

I think it's just like any industry where there's a specialist. If you were on evanmarckatz.com, you'd see I'm a personal trainer for people who want to fall in love. So everybody could go to the gym and knows how to use the equipment, but a lot of people go to the gym and don't get any results. So the strange thing about love and, and relationships and understanding the opposite sex is that we think it's the kind of thing that should come inherently. Everybody has a love life, everybody has opinions about it, everybody gives advice about it. But if you look around, most people are not very effective.

No.

Or happy in healthy relationships. And so I think it's, it's no different than learning to play guitar or get business coaching or, right.

People just don't think you're right. And people don't think to get a dating coach because they think, oh, I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah. 15 years go by, they're still trying to date.

And it's very specific too. This isn't therapy, what I do. I'm not a psychologist. I don't pretend to be a psychologist. A psychologist listens and says, how does that make you feel? And you'll talk for 50 minutes and you might feel better. People ask me, what do I do? And I say, here's what you do. If you do this, this will happen.

Okay, so give me a common scenario. Someone comes to you looking for love. What, like, give me, set me up with a common one. I'm a woman. Let's say I'm a chick and I'm like, okay, I've been trying. Let's say it's me.

Let's say you're you.

Let's take that Hypothetically. Okay, okay. I need a dating coach.

Hypothetically.

Hypothetically.

I've got a friend, her name is Emily.

Okay. So Emily, so I'll be me. Okay. I have indeed, I say that I'm not looking for anyone in particular, 'cause I really don't feel that I am because I'm obsessed with my work and I'm kind of a workaholic and I always think, well, once all my work stuff gets, everything's going and whatever, then I'll look for a man. Then I'll have the time. But I know that's just an excuse probably and using work as an excuse to not find love. But I feel, and then I meet many nice men and they all wanna I want to date and get serious, but I'm like, I can't. Okay, because I'm working, or I try and then I— they're not right, or maybe there'll be someone else, or I'm busy, or I meet someone else and I go from one relationship to the next.

You're a guy.

I'm a dude.

Yeah, so that, that makes it very simple to understand you.

Thank you.

So I'm a guy too.

We've got that in common. Okay. All right.

And so, uh, I think happiness is when your actions are aligned with your goals.

Right.

Right. If someone says, "I'm a people person," but they get a job as a night watchman, they're not going to be that happy. They might have a job, right? It's better than not having a job, but what they're doing is not actually going to make them happy.

Right.

So you have to, you know, ask yourself, I mean, if we're doing this sort of spot-on data gathering—

Analyze it. Break me down.

No, it's, it's, it's— these are choices. It's not a right or a wrong. It's an effective or ineffective. If you want to fall in love have a family. Right. And again, that's, that's, that's an important thing. If you want kids, there's a different course of action.

Exactly.

Right. Is that something that's in the cards for you?

It could be.

Okay. Because if you do want that, smart to take action at a younger age than to say, you know what, I'm going to get started when all my ducks are in a row when I'm 41.

Right. Exactly. That's a bad time to start.

Not, not, not just because of biology, but because of male preference. Because if he wants to have kids, he's going to say, oh, I would love someone just like Emily if she were only 35.

Right.

Right. So, so there's, there's more things that are at play, right? The kind of guy you want who wants to have kids. And I married an older woman and had, and she had a kid at age 41. She's going to be 42 in November. A lot of guys not willing to take that chance. And it doesn't mean they're bad shallow guys.

They're just like the numbers, the whole thing. Very practical.

All things remaining equal, if I have a choice of dating someone who's 39 or 32? I'm going to choose 32. Same exact person, right?

Unless this person's amazing.

So, so, so that's why when women come to me, and, you know, a majority of my clients are, are women, they're 35 plus, and they say, all right, I'm ready to take this seriously. I waited too long. I put my career first. I have everything, right? They did exactly what you're doing, right? And then, and then they said, crap, this isn't the— I've got everything except the guy, and my life is not going to be complete for the next 40 years if I don't have that.

Exactly.

And I think, I think we, we sort of, um, give up something, and it's very short-term thinking rather than long-term thinking. So if you or someone like you were to say, I want to prioritize my love life, I'm going to keep on working, but I can't snooze on this, right? Right. You'd bring someone like me aboard.

Okay.

And we'd start from scratch, right? And that's where the online dating thing comes in. It's not because online dating is the be-all end-all.

Right, but that's how many people are meeting online right now.

Well, if in real life you work in a small office with a handful of people, you're not, you know, you're kind of past picking up strangers in bars type thing. A lot of your friends are married. It doesn't happen organically the way we'd like it to. So online dating is a great medium to create opportunity. And so then if you're going to do this, I'll write your online dating profile, I'll pay for professional photos, I'll teach you how to flirt, we'll log into Match.com and look up cute people together and I'll show you—

You do all that with me? You'll teach me how to flirt?

I'll show you. I mean, you're probably a natural.

I am.

But—

You're right. I'm an— but that's awesome that you provide that to people because people all the time are like, how do I flirt? How do I—

And it's also understanding the opposite sex. There are people who do things that once again make sense when they're writing it or saying it, and in practice, "Oh, I know you meant this, Emily, but do you see how this might have come across to him?" And you'll be like, "Oh my God, I didn't mean that." So I try to provide—

You're such a pro, you get inside.

Just try to provide objective analysis.

Because no one is reading your, like, you know, proofing your chatty flirts.

Yeah, and so I just try to tell you, if you want a quality guy, here's how quality, you know, intelligent, successful, relationship-oriented guys think. Here's what's going to be most effective.

Right.

Here's what you're doing and here's what's most effective. You could choose to change your actions or you could keep on doing what you're doing.

Right.

I'm not going to judge you.

Right, of course.

But it's like hiring a personal trainer and saying, eh, I don't like waking up at 6 in the morning to go to the gym. I kind of like my fried foods. I want to eat carbs after 6. There's no point in hiring someone if you're not going to change.

Right, fire the trainer, right.

So I'm going to stop talking, but that's the short—

No, that's awesome. That's really, really cool. So like, as we touch on online dating, I get a lot of emails from guys who are like, I don't know what to say. During that first message to someone, that first online dating message, and they're like, do I tell her that she's cute? And I'm like, no. So what would you say is a good first— you see someone online, you see their profile, what would you say? What's a good subject?

I like the fact that you asked the question, and I like the fact that you asked the question the way you asked the question, because the question is a common one, as you alluded to, but it's the wrong question, which is, what do I say? Which implies that there's this thing, there's this line, one thing, there's this one template that if you say this to every woman, she's gonna, she's gonna run after you and take off her pants for you. And that's not the right way of looking at online dating.

Okay, okay, there's not one way, not one thing to say.

Any guy who's telling you that—

no perfect pickup line exists on the planet.

Because we were talking about this before we got on the air. What do women want? They want to be individuals. Right?

Right.

So if she's going to be an individual, you can't give her a canned line. It inherently defeats the point of what she's looking for.

Right.

This isn't about you, dude.

Right, right.

What is she looking for?

You've got to look at her profile, you've got to read what she said. Don't send some generic—

Exactly. Right? So think of a typical email in which he tells you everything you already know. Dear Emily, he knows your name is Emily, you know your name is Emily.

Yeah.

I read your profile. You know.

Right.

You know he's reading your profile. I think you're really cute. You know.

Right.

I think we have a lot in common. You know.

Right.

Um, I noticed you like skiing. I also like skiing. It's called me too.

Right.

Me too doesn't win anybody over.

Me too is so boring.

Doesn't win anybody over.

Right.

So, please check out my profile. You know you're supposed to do that. And if you like what I have to say, weak and needy. Right?

Weak and needy if you like what I have to say!

Because you're saying you're up on a pedestal. Please give me a chance. I hope to hear from you soon. Weak and needy. So you're essentially putting someone else up on a pedestal. I call it the pedestal principle. Once you put the opposite sex up on a pedestal, they're immediately looking down at you. So you can't compliment someone in that first email. It defeats the purpose. You're trying to build attraction, and attraction doesn't come from, please, please, please pick me.

Wow.

So that's what happens. Men and women write emails and they compliment the other person. The other person's like, ah, Jesus.

But later on you want a lot of compliments when you're in a relationship. Later!

At the beginning—

I'm sorry, that's just one of my big things.

At the beginning—

When you're in a relationship, you want a lot of compliments.

At the beginning, it's a dance though.

At the beginning, it's a dance.

Do you respond to the guy who's like, "Oh my God, you're so gorgeous, you're so funny." No, I would delete. Right? Even though— I really would. Don't you like a lot of compliments? You just said, "I like a lot of compliments." I love compliments, but not that early.

Oh my God, it's a timing thing with compliments. Not from a stranger. Not from a stranger.

Right? So—

I'm like, "Great, you looked at my picture." Yeah, so what do you say?

What the hell are you doing? So what do you say? You choose the line in his or her profile that's the most unique thing that they said. Not what you like, not what you have in common, because that's just going to lead to a "me too." Right. Right? You like dogs? I like dogs. You're from New York? I'm from New York.

Boring. Boring!

Find the thing, express your opinion or observation about it, and if your opinion or observation is more than "me too, I like it too," You're going to start a conversation the way you'd start a conversation with someone in real life. Exactly. Where if you bring up, if you mention in your profile Costa Rica, for example, it's made up, Costa Rica.

Right.

I would say, all right, what's my opinion or observation about Costa Rica? I don't really know much about Costa Rica, but I do know that every person in San Francisco or Los Angeles who does yoga ends up going on a yoga retreat in Costa Rica.

True.

That's literally all I know about Costa Rica.

Right, exactly.

It's like yoga retreat island.

Right, exactly.

I would write an email to you. You know, the subject of the email would be not, hey, hi, what's up, re, re, re, re, email.

It would be— Has everyone got this? Don't say hi in your subject line. Don't say hey.

It would be Yoga Retreat Island, right? That would be the subject of my email.

Love it. Okay.

I'm just making this up.

Right, right, right. You're so good.

And so, hey, I see that you love taking vacations in Costa Rica. I got to be honest, I don't know anything about Costa Rica. I've never been there before. But everybody I know in San Francisco and Los Angeles who's ever gone on a yoga retreat, uh, ends up in Costa Rica. I'm picturing flying into the airport and seeing 25,000 people doing down dog at the same time.

Right.

Is it anything like that?

Right.

Talk to you soon, Ev.

Right.

That's it.

That's it. Right. Right. And then you're like the one that's stuck here, the one, and it's true. I, I think that's so true because so many of the men I've dated, I, it's like through their writing, through their texts, through the way they, they wooed me through their, through their words.

And so it's, it's, You're exhibiting two characteristics with that. You're exhibiting boldness, confidence, humor. It takes balls to do something that stupid.

Mm-hmm.

You know what I mean? To really put yourself on the line and say something completely silly, to offer your opinion about her fact.

Right.

You can't just give someone a fact. You like Bruce Springsteen? I like Bruce Springsteen.

So boring.

Right? But you can make— but you could say, what's the deal with Bruce Springsteen? The guy's from New Jersey. 'But he's got an Oklahoma accent. What part of New Jersey do they speak Oklahoma anyway?' Right.

And she'd think that's funny and she'd probably email you back. Right.

It's silly, but then you just start a dialogue.

You got it.

And this is the way people talk in real life.

Right, exactly.

This is the way people actually flirt in real life.

And I don't think there are just boring people too who are like, 'Oh, oh, you come here often?' Exactly.

So if you express an opinion in your first email about something in the other person's profile, you're halfway there.

Okay. I love it. So what about, um, and then what are some of the issues that come up? Let's say you're on like the first, like are there first date rules that you go by?

Are we talking to men or women?

First, let's talk to men.

Okay. Have you ever read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People?

Parts of it, yeah.

Okay. It is the best dating book not written for dating.

Wow. Okay.

I mean, I literally have on my website, there's like an About tab, and on the About tab, there's a writing tab, and I've got a bibliography of all these amazing dating and relationship books that are like fast and fun reads.

Wait, we didn't even say exactly. EvanMarcKatz.com. That's Evan, M-A-R-C, Katz.com. And we'll have this on our website as well.

Thank you.

Great information.

Thank you. So Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence People. And it was written in the '30s for insurance salespeople. Right. Totally.

You always have it right.

It's really kind of clunky and awkwardly written, but the wisdom in it is really great. So he talks about how when someone has an agenda, they don't end up achieving their agenda. Okay, so think about it like a car salesman. Hey, Emily, what are you looking for in a car? I'm gonna sell you a car today. I gotta make my quota at the end of the month. I'll give you a great deal. Everything must go. This one goes from 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds. You gotta buy a car today. I'm not gonna let you leave the lot until you buy a car. That guy's not gonna sell you a car.

No.

Why? He's trying too hard to sell you a car. Exactly. All right, so who is gonna sell you the car? Emily, welcome to my car lot. What are you looking for? What's important to you? Is it speed, performance, price, safety, looks, mileage? What are the things that you're looking for? I'll find the car that works best for your needs.

Okay.

That's the guy who sells you the car.

Right.

Because it's all about you. It's not about him.

Right. So the guy needs to make it about her.

The problem is, guys, all of us— I could flip this around and apply it to women— but all of us have an agenda when it comes to a first date. So let's take two guys at the extremes. What are their typical agendas? Okay, first date, I'm a confident guy, what's my agenda?

To get laid.

Good. We're gonna go fast through this.

Okay.

If I'm an insecure guy, what's my agenda?

To get laid?

No.

Oh, not to get a second date? Mm-hmm.

I just want to impress you enough to get a second date. You're so smart and funny and pretty and I just—

So really he wants to get laid too. Maybe he's down as a friend, but he doesn't think he can.

He's not confident enough to worry about getting there.

Right, right.

He's afraid of even making a move. Totally. He just doesn't want to screw up.

Okay.

Right? So if we just take those as the two paradigms of male agendas on first dates.

Right. I love it. Okay.

What happens when those guys pursue that agenda? The guy who wants to get laid puts his arm around you, has another drink, what's your favorite position? And you're like, dude, I've known you for 5 minutes.

Exactly.

Back up.

Right.

He's the car salesman. He's trying too hard.

Right.

Right? The guy who wants to impress you, what does he do? He, the guy who wants to impress me, he starts asking me questions about The guy who's insecure that he's not going to get a second date, what does he do?

Oh, he's like a puppy dog and he is kissing my ass and he's so impressed. I mean, he's nervous and he's tongue-tied and he stutters a little and sometimes he does a fake yawn because he's so— do you know the fake yawn? Insecure guys do a fake yawn. That's new. A few of my friends have noticed it. I know, it's very new. There's guys, and I think you'll notice this, that when they're nervous around a woman they're like, "I don't know, how was your day?" Or they do it on the phone because they're so nervous they do a fake yawn.

Got it. I learn something every day.

Yes. Okay. So they might do that.

So insecure guys either go to that end of the spectrum and they're like, is everything okay? Are you having fun? Am I doing okay? Or he hijacks the conversation and talks for 2 hours straight.

Because he's so insecure.

And so he's like, he ends up bragging about himself, but he's really insecure.

Right.

Please like me. Here's everything you need to know. Here's why I'm great. Right?

Right.

Either way, the guy who tries to impress, not very impressive.

Right.

This is what happens when someone has an agenda on a first date. So for a guy to be a great first date, he has to put his agenda aside and focus on your agenda.

Right.

So then we say, what is a woman's agenda? What does she want out of a guy? She wants a guy to show signs of chivalry, generosity, consistency, thoughtfulness, integrity, confidence.

Oh, say a lot. Yes.

So this is what a woman's looking for. So his job is just to do what you want. It's simple. Call— if he's talking to you on Sunday night, not texting you, talking to you on Sunday night, "What are you doing next Saturday night? I know of a great tapas restaurant in your part of town. I'll pick you up at 9, dress sexy." Right. I got it.

Right.

The man with the plan. He doesn't call you 5 minutes before, "What are you doing right now?" Right.

He doesn't text you all week.

He's got a plan.

Man with a plan is hot.

Man with a plan makes the reservations, tells you where, approximately when he's picking you up, what you're going to wear. Now that he's got the date with you, he doesn't disappear for like a week. Am I still going out with him?

Right.

He keeps in touch. He'll call you, he'll email you, he'll text you. He'll keep the emotional tether alive.

But not too much.

Exactly. But he doesn't disappear.

Right.

So you still feel connected to him during that week before the date.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Building up trust, building up anticipation.

Right.

Right. He's starting to get a little excited about the date.

Excited. Yeah.

He confirms the day before. He shows up on time. Right?

Doesn't forget his wallet.

Dresses appropriately, shoes match the belt, whatever. Okay.

Right.

Polite to the waitress, maître d', lets you order anything you want on the menu, knows how to choose a glass of wine to go with his meal, asks you questions about yourself, listens to your answers, doesn't hijack the conversation, tells relevant—

I wouldn't let him hijack.

Relevant stories. He's relationship-oriented, but he's not looking to get married on the date.

Right.

Right? Not talking negatively about exes and work.

Exes are, ugh. Negative about work and exes is horrible. Negative about anything.

Again, I'm rolling through.

You hate your job.

I'm rolling through this. We're almost done. All right? End of the meal comes, picks up the check, no questions asked. Maybe he's already scouted the area. He knows of another bar because it's only 10 o'clock on Saturday night. He knows of another place to take you to nearby that you could walk to. Couple rounds of drinks, picks up the check, no questions asked. Walks you to your cab, walks you home, gives you a big kiss goodnight. "I had a lot of fun. Can't wait to see you again." Calls you the next day.

The next day?

Next day. "When can I see you again?" Wow.

Okay. Okay.

You could disagree. I'm telling you, if she likes you, she's thrilled.

She's thrilled you called the next day. It's true.

He's not a game player.

He's not a game player, right?

He calls you the next day. You're like, "He called me the next day." If you think he's a creep, he's like, "Who is this needy stalker?" But if you like him, you can't go wrong.

Right.

That is a great date by any woman's standards.

Yes.

Okay? Absolutely. What happens if you do that? He achieves his agenda.

Right.

He impresses you enough to get a second date, and he's got a chance of getting laid one day.

Right.

By focusing on your agenda, he achieves his agenda.

Got it.

That's the magic of Dale Carnegie.

Okay. Got it? That is so interesting.

Put aside what you want, focus on what the other person wants.

That is so—

And you'll get what you want.

And it's for business, it's for anything in life, right? God, and some of us do this naturally and some of us have to learn, so this is why they need you.

Because most of this doesn't come naturally. Most of us and women go into dates with their own agenda.

Right.

Right? So they're either nervous, they hope the guy likes them, or they're like, who is this guy? What's wrong with him? Let me figure out what's wrong with him. I don't want to waste my time. Is he serious? Is he a player? Does he have a good relationship with his mom and his exes? Is he looking for marriage and kids? And they're trying to figure out the future in an hour and a half.

Right.

And when that agenda shows up on a date and a guy's like, oh God, this is too much.

Right. So the women have to relax. So what's your advice for women then to be—

It's the same thing. You flip it around. What's your agenda? Whatever it is, what you're looking to get out of that date, you're trying to figure out the future or, you know, put it aside. Doesn't matter what you want. Focus on what he wants.

So what does he want?

He wants to impress you.

He wants to get laid.

Oh no. Yes. He wants to impress you. He wants to get laid.

I got it.

Your job. Let him know you're impressed and let him know that if he's a good boy, he's got a chance of getting laid one day. That's all a woman has to do on a first date.

You just made it so easy.

Look him in the eye, touch him on the hand, laugh at his jokes, put away the BlackBerry, ask him questions about himself, compliment him on his shirt or his shoes or his funny story or his business acumen. Thank him for choosing the restaurant and pick up the check and kiss him at the end of the night when he makes his move. Congratulations, you're a great date.

Right.

It's literally all you have to do is make him feel great. It's actually in my ebook, Why He Disappeared. I use a sex metaphor. It is like being in bed. Your job is to make him feel like a stallion.

Right.

Right? You don't have to do that much. Make him feel really good about being there. He's going to say, "That was the best date I ever had." And all you did was laugh at his jokes and be cool and easygoing and gregarious and make him feel really good about choosing to take you out. You let him know that he was valuable, interesting, smart, sexy.

Okay. Got it.

Right.

I want to get into your book in a minute. Why, why?

I'm sorry, I, I know I'm being interviewed. I just yap so much.

No, I love that you have— I said this to that. I was like, he taught— he's awesome. He's like, you're— because you have such good things to say, amazing things to say, and everyone should hear your voice. Um, you did write this book, Why Men Disappear.

It's called Why He Disappeared.

Why He Disappeared. And I want to get into that in one minute, but there's— because there's a question I want to ask that's related to what you said. So what about nice guys? Like a lot of times guys are just like too nice, right? Women are like, oh, he was too nice, he was great. In that profile of that guy that you just explained, is he a nice guy?

Which guy?

I mean, of the guy who did everything right.

He could be.

But what's the problem with nice guys? Let's talk about the nice guy for a minute that doesn't get laid and that doesn't get dates and that messes up and falls into the friend zone.

Yeah. Years ago when I was coaching both sexes more than I do now. 20% of my clients were nice guys. I had these smart, strong women and nice guys. Nice guys are really easy to help, actually.

Oh.

Yeah, nice guys are the easiest to help.

How do you help them?

You just give them permission to have balls. It's really not that hard. I had one guy, he hired me for 8 weeks of coaching, okay? His story, I love this story. He's like—

I already love this story. I don't even know where it's going, I love it.

He was a 30-year-old guy in Boston. I'm not going to out him, but he's like, "I went out with this woman. She's from work. She's so smart. She's so pretty. I just don't want to screw up. I've been out on 3 dates with her and I feel like it's losing momentum. Tuesday night we went to the Cheesecake Factory after work at 5:30 and I just don't know what to do. Help me." He was just stuck.

Nice guy.

Right.

And he knew, so thank God he came to you with that.

Not a bad guy. He's not a bad-looking guy. Just felt like he was out of his league.

Right. Falling into the friend zone.

I said, this is so simple. When you get off the phone with me, send her an email. Jane, had a great time with you on Tuesday night. Right. I'll repeat what I said before. Had a great time with you on Tuesday night. Can't wait to do it again. Friday night, pick you up at 9, dress sexy. I know of a great place to take you. He's like, but I don't know of a great place to take her. I was like, you'll figure it out.

Right.

Right. Just, just tell her you've got a plan.

That's true. That's true. We love to hear that you have a plan.

You have a plan.

You are confirming everything that's true.

So all you have to do is pick her up. The problem is you're setting yourself up for failure. She's gone out with you 3 times because she likes you. She's not doing you a favor. She likes you. She's waiting for you to man up.

Right.

So you have to man up. She's— you are actually losing your window. Right. But no one could, could get any action if you're going for drinks at 5:30 at the Cheesecake Factory. Anybody's going to fail in that position. So choose a later date, pick her up at her place, right? Give her 3 drinks, drive her home at midnight. You'll walk her to her door, right? Now she's going to say, would you like to come inside when you make your move and kiss her?

Right.

And now you'll be all set.

So the nice guy's problem then is that they don't have a plan and they're not thinking ahead into what do I want to happen?

It's being actually somewhat strategic, right? You want to make a move. She wants you to make a move. She's losing confidence in you because you're not doing it.

Because you're being a wimp.

So give yourself permission to be the guy that she wants you to be. She's not, she's not a timid flower. She's a sexual being. So, so just put yourself in the position to succeed. If you need a few drinks to do it, get the few drinks, but just don't have her drive her own car because that's her excuse to leave.

Right. So you never let her drive.

You drive.

I always drive my own car.

You drive her home, kiss her at the doorstep. She'll invite you inside. The next week I talk to the guy, he's like, I don't think I need my other 7 weeks of coaching. Everything— I swear to you.

Just because he said 10 o'clock dress-up?

He said everything you said, I swear to God this is right, everything you said happened, and I went inside and I think she's my girlfriend now, so thank you. It was 8 weeks of coaching in 1 week.

Wow, that's amazing.

I swear, I could not make that up.

Amazing what you do, because people, I get these questions. He just needed the confidence. I get hundreds of emails about this stuff.

He needed the permission to do what she wanted him to do.

Right.

She wants you to make the move.

She does.

It doesn't mean you're like a perv or a heathen. It means you're a guy and you're making her feel good.

What about strong women then? What about the strong women in the 90— like, do they— how do strong women in these— what do they want, you think?

They want to make the move? Well, that's the conundrum. Strong women, let's say they're in the 95th percentile of everything. They're the most beautiful, they're the most successful, they're the most educated. They're looking for the 5% of men who are more man than they are.

Right.

The problem is that 5% doesn't want them in return.

Why?

Because that's not what he's interested in.

He's interested in someone who's more docile?

You could use the word docile, but I would, I would probably say someone who makes him feel better about himself.

Right.

So it's not that she doesn't have many great qualities that she's bringing to the table, but if I'm that guy, I need something that I don't get.

So guys don't like strong— you wrote a blog about that, how guys don't like strong, successful women.

I'm glad you, you tied those things together. It's the most popular blog post I've ever written. And I started off by using comparison with nice guys. Nice guys are convinced that the reason they don't do well with women is because they're nice. You've heard that. Oh, I'm just supposed to be a jerk, right? If I were a jerk, I'd do well with women. No, women don't want jerks.

Yeah, yeah, guys, there's like, why do girls like that? Well, everyone likes girls like jerks, right?

Exactly. So they don't want jerks. They want guys who are leaders, who have confidence, who have balls, who can make decisions and stand up for themselves. That doesn't require being a jerk at all, right? I've never been a jerk with women, right?

Right, right.

And I've always done okay. So the nice guys are misguided if they think that being nice is the problem. Same with smart, strong, successful women, right? It's not that you're too smart, strong, and successful. We're not intimidated by you. We prefer the company of people who have time for us, who listen to us, who don't emasculate us, take away our decision-making abilities, criticize us.

Right.

We want to feel good around our partner.

Right, exactly. So women who— so typically, because I'm actually not to be— make it about me, but I'm not like that at all.

I didn't say that.

No, no, no, no, no. It's funny because I'm actually— I am, I guess, I think of myself as a strong woman. But I also am very in relationships, like, I want him to take charge. I never criticize. I never make the plan. Like, in fact, to a fault, sometimes they're like, can you make a plan every once in a while? So I'm not that woman who's like, comes off that way. I'm, I think I am more like, sure, I, I want men to be in charge.

I understand. The problem is, um, most women who claim to be like that aren't.

I swear we can call them.

They want it in theory, essentially. You want him to be the president, but you want to have veto power.

Right. That's true.

So make a decision, unless I don't like your decision. And then I get to overrule. Exactly.

You're like, I'll do anything except for that.

Exactly.

Right.

And that's the problem.

Okay.

Because the man who is the CEO doesn't need someone overruling him. That's not— he is the boss. That's what he does.

Exactly. God, this is so interesting. I love it.

So there's— that's where there's the friction is these women Right? They're amazing women. They're looking for that small fraction of guy who's man enough for they are.

Mm-hmm.

That guy doesn't want them in return.

Not all guys don't want them in return.

I'm making generalizations. We have to make generalizations. Of course.

We have to.

So the better fit for those women are the nice guy. The guy's gonna let them have their way. He's the better fit. They need a good wife.

Yeah, I've often, I've often thought that I need a good wife.

And that's, that's, that's not a pejorative term. If you find a guy who's a great guy, treats you well, holds his own socially, right? If you're out making $250,000 a year working 50-hour weeks, you don't need a guy who makes $350,000.

You do fine.

It's the same as a guy who makes $250,000. He doesn't need someone who makes more.

Right.

So why could guys date anybody?

Right.

And women only needed to date the small percentage of men above them. Women have created their own double standard.

Right. That's true. That's so true. It's fascinating. It's fascinating the way our culture and all these conundrums that people keep getting the same thing. It's, it's, there's really just like a few scenarios when you think about it, right? Like you must, in your coaching practice, have been like, I know what to do with this one. I already know where you're going. Like people probably got to the point where they would tell you 3 things and you're like, I got you. I know your profile. I know what you need.

And, and you, you wanna make everybody feel like an individual, but of course, but yes, but it's pretty easy to see what's in people's blind spots.

Right, right. And you can point that out for them.

And that, that's the idea is people are doing the best that they can and they keep on bumping up against the same wall over and over, over and over again.

There's so many patterns in relationships. We did a show about that. You said, um, earlier about the patterns that we constantly date the same people or the types making the same mistakes and how you get out of that. And a lot of times you get out of that— I guess a coach would be a great way. I think in therapy, go back, figure out what your issues are, what's holding you back. Therapy takes too long.

I, I, uh, again, I have great respect for therapists. Uh, it is, but it's a very, very slow puzzle.

And, and you can just be like, well, I've got permission.

I'm being asked to do it. I have one client who was 69 years old. She came to me, she's like, I got more out of 3 weeks of coaching with you than I had 30 years of therapy.

Yeah, that's amazing. That's— I can totally see that.

Therapists don't have I don't have a mandate to tell you what's wrong with you. Right.

You're supposed to come to it on your own, and sometimes it takes 10 years.

If you can't see into your own blind spot.

Exactly.

And sometimes it's really apparent, and this is why friends can give good advice.

Exactly, they give you the blind spot. Okay, let's talk about your book, Why He Disappeared.

Yes.

Let's talk about that. It's been a great successful book. People can download it right now on your website.

Yep.

ASAP. Why did he disappear?

There's 3 sections.

Like you had to write a book about it. I mean like, men disappear.

I had a friend who said, if you can write a book that explains why men disappear, you'll be a very successful dating coach.

And what you mean by that is why men, they didn't call you back for the second date, why they broke up with you.

First part of the book is why he disappeared after a first date. Second part of the book is why he disappeared when dating you.

Okay.

Third part of the book is why he disappeared from your relationship.

Wow.

So, um, it's, it's, and it's specifically for my clients who tend to be smart, strong, successful women.

Okay.

If you're looking to date that guy who's a little more alpha male.

Okay, wow, it seems— fuck.

But it applies to most people. Most people want that guy.

Right.

And you need to be able to distinguish, have I done something wrong that's alienated men over and over and I didn't know it?

Right.

Or can I give myself a break and stop beating myself up? I didn't do anything wrong. The person, for example, the person who dates George Clooney isn't doing anything wrong.

Right.

Right? The reason he disappeared is that that's who he is.

Right. He disappears all the time.

And the only thing you could do is not choose him. Right?

Right. So talk about the choices that we're making.

It's not your job to change this guy. Right? It's your job to say, I'm going to wean myself off of the George Clooneys and the James Bonds of the world.

Right. The bad boy kind of thing.

Yeah. I'm going to wean myself off of that just because it never pans out.

Right. It's not going so well.

It's not that he's not attractive. And listen, I'm married since we talked. I've been married now for 10 years. 2 and a half years or something like that. And it's not that, um, I don't still find other women attractive, women who had certain characteristics that I chased for 35 years. It's that I realized I was going for the female George Clooneys.

You were.

And I was like, oh, I, I've got to stop that, right? I was going for the—

you coached yourself.

I was going for the female version of myself. And that's, that's narcissism.

I've— yeah, I, I, I have been. There's a guy— there's one of the guys I'm dating, uh, we always say that we're like, we are the female male version of each other. It's so never going to work, but we like love each other, but we're so each other's same.

We need compliments, not clones, which is why the alpha male— you know, Maureen Dowd wrote, uh, Are Men Necessary?

I know, I own it. Yeah.

And so she's like, I'm a Pulitzer Prize winner, I can't believe that someone like— someone, you know, men must be intimidated by me. No, no, no, no. She's like, she's, she's missing the whole point, right? Why do men marry their secretaries? Because their secretaries make them feel good, right?

They bring them coffee in the morning. My dad married this woman who was very subservient, was like a secretary, and I didn't understand it because this is a terrible thing to say, but I was younger and I was like, Dad, I don't get why you want— because I was such a— I was in college and I and she just—

you're in feminist mode.

I was in feminist mode, thank you. I was super feminist, and my dad was dating this woman who like didn't do anything and just sat around the house and whatever. I was like, why are you doing this? And he's like, Emily, she makes me breakfast. And I was like, Dad, you have cereal. And he's like, doesn't matter, like pours my milk. And I was like, I kind of understood that men, a lot of men, just want someone to basically take care of them.

It's about, it's about giving. It's a spirit of giving. And, and The great thing about being a giver is that you get so much in return. I am so good to my wife because no one's ever been better to me. So I give with this reckless abandon. How can I make my wife's life better? That's all I think about. How can I make her life better? And she earned that from me because she treats me so well. Why would I give her up to go with someone who is potentially Younger, thinner, cuter, smarter.

Right.

They exist. There's plenty of them.

Of course. And you live in LA.

Yeah. And again, and that's not putting down my wife. Some people say, your wife should be very insulted the way you talk about her. No, I married her.

Right.

She's the greatest.

Right.

I call her the type O wife. Literally anybody can marry my wife and be happy. That's how great she is.

I can't wait to meet her.

Um, I, I, I would've dragged her here except she needed her sleep. She was up with the baby last night.

Oh no, you guys just drove in. I'm so glad you're here. You came in and did the show. So, okay, so why you disappeared though? What else So what can we get from that? Like the first date, for example, is there any, like, are there a few things? I mean, you, you probably can't encapsulate one chapter right now, but what are some common things? Like, there's a lot of women kind of walking around going like, yeah, it was a fun date, it was great, we made out, and he didn't call. Like, what, what could some scenarios be?

Well, let's talk about those two scenarios. I, I opened the book talking about, well, an amazing date that I was on. The woman went to Harvard, she was in, she was in grad school. We went to the W in Westwood at the time and made out in the parking lot until 2:30 in the morning. Never heard from her again. And I spent weeks thinking about what happened. What did I miss here?

Right.

It doesn't matter. That's the answer.

It actually— So sometimes it really doesn't matter and we just like to obsess about it.

It has nothing to do with you.

Right.

If you gave it your A-game and it didn't work out, it's their issue. They're dating someone else. They're going through some stuff in life.

Exactly.

You can't hold on to the things that you don't even know.

Because you just beat yourself up with it anyway.

Right. If you actually had a great experience— now sometimes people are delusional.

Right.

Right? You've gone out with a guy, he had a great time, he followed up, "I thought we had fun. I thought we had fun. I thought we had fun." And you're like, "Dude, I was being polite." Like, "Who are you again?" Right? You're being polite. But he doesn't understand.

Exactly.

So if you were to tell him the truth—

What do you think about that, telling people the truth why it didn't work?

Only if they ask. You don't, you don't lead with it.

Right.

But that's the problem with dating. We don't give comment cards. So that guy who goes on a date and is relentlessly negative, he's going to do that with the next woman.

I know, but wouldn't it be nice to kind of be like, hey dude, this is why it sucked. Like, shouldn't there be some kind of like universal—

Rachel Greenwald wrote a book called Why He Didn't Call You Back, later retitled Have Him at Hello. She interviewed 1,000 guys about why they don't call women back.

Okay.

And she said essentially, if you go out with someone, and this works for men or women, right? You go out with someone and a week goes by and they don't call you or they don't return your calls. You can kind of take the hint, right?

Yeah.

So then you email him or her and say, uh, we're talking more to men here, right? Um, Nancy, um, I'm getting the sense you're not going to return my call. No big deal. I had a nice time meeting you last Wednesday. Um, but I really would love to learn if there's anything that I did that turned you off, which is why you're not calling me back. Um, I'm a big boy, I could take it. Please be brutally honest with me.

Love it.

Something that I could learn for the next time out.

Good. That would have to take a very self-aware, um, confident male.

And, but you have a chance to totally value—

like, you were an ass to the waitress and you talked about yourself the whole time. Got it. Don't do it next time.

I had no idea. I was just being myself.

Yeah, and you suck. So whatever, in a very nice way I'd say it. But yes, God, there's so much— save us so much work.

So if men and women could actually get feedback on what they're doing wrong— there's limitations to anybody giving advice. I'm not on a date with anybody. Right. So they have to actually—

And people have to ask and want to improve and want that. And a lot of people don't want to go there.

Yeah, some people say, well, I'm just being— if he can't handle me the way I am, then all right, well then good luck. Good luck with that.

Right.

If she can't handle the fact that I'm relentlessly negative, then she's not my kind of person anyway. Well, okay.

Right.

Good luck with that.

Exactly. God, this is such good advice. I love it.

Thank you.

It's very helpful. The work that you're doing is so important. Like, I want every single person who emails me to like have like 5 minutes with you. I think it would help them so much.

I really— I feel very lucky, just like you do. I feel very lucky to be able to do this. So much of it is common sense, yet we're so close to ourselves that we can't see clearly enough. And if you've struggled with relationships, why do we keep on— I mean, there's a common thing. I attract the wrong people. I did some YouTube video on this. Very few YouTube videos of me, but one called You Don't Attract the Wrong People, You Accept the Wrong People.

Exactly. Why?

Well, people believe, oh, I'm a bad— I'm a crazy chick magnet, or I'm an asshole magnet.

Exactly. We did a show about that recently. I was like, it's no, look at the common denominator here. It's you.

All right. So it's not that you are a magnet, right? If I were to spin it my way, I had, you know, I dated 300 people before I got married. So I could say, you know, I'm a crazy chick magnet. But in fact, I attracted many women through online dating over many years. Most of them were not that way. A small percentage were, and those are the good stories. Right. So I attract women. A certain percentage of them were crazy, but the crazies won't have any effect on you if you don't actually date them.

Right.

If you could identify.

But why were you attracted to the crazies?

I wasn't attracted to. It was put up with. She might be a physically attractive person. I'd be like, I'm kind of sad and lonely and pathetic, so I'll go out with her for 4 months because I got nothing else going on.

Right.

And people do that. We, we, we just go out with someone cuz we're down on our luck. It's been a while. This person's paying attention to me. I'm getting some good sex, right?

We date so many. Don't you think it's a good rule to dump those people that are just filling your time?

It's not, it's not even dump them. It's not even let them in the door.

Don't even let them in the door because it stops the right person from coming.

Exactly. Every second you're with, every second you're with the wrong person, you're not looking for the right person. And so every second you're with the wrong guy, it's not that you attract them, it's that you accept them. Like, if I were suddenly single and my wife left me, I would essentially look for her again. I would never spend a half a second on someone who was critical and demanding and difficult. And I just had a life way too short.

You're talking about just getting clear on what you want as a person. And that is—

Most of us want the same thing. That's the amazing thing. We want to be treated well.

Yeah.

I mean, like, you're my mom.

And we want to be adored. Women want to be— I think it's a little different what we want. Men and women what we want. Like, I think that women want to feel like adored and appreciated and worshiped in some ways and taken care of. And I guess men might kind of want that too, in a way, right? So it is kind of the same. It is kind of the same.

That's the amazing blind spot.

We're missing each other.

But that's the amazing thing, is that you say, here's what I'm looking for. Men are looking for the same thing. And that hasn't necessarily occurred to you, that the way to a man's heart is just treat him well. And by the way, women— I've heard from women, but I do treat my man well and they walk all over me.

Then dump him, right?

Like, it's— I'm not asking you to stay with a guy who treats you poorly.

And they might stay with that guy because they're— you perhaps in their childhood, their dad treated their mom like that.

We're not even gonna get into it.

All I'm saying is dump them.

Yeah, I'm not telling you to be a doormat, right? Treat your guy well.

You get something—

you get something great in return. If you don't get something great in return, you're out the door. The leverage you have is your ability to walk away, right?

Absolutely. Women walk away from abusive men. Same with men.

Not even abusive, just indifferent. The guy who's like, "I'm not really ready for a relationship." "Can you come around and talk to like 10 of my friends today?" When I go to parties, my wife laughs. She's like, "I know where to find you at parties. When there's a circle of 10 women surrounding you, that's where I know you are." I love it!

That is so funny. That's me too at the party. But I'm with dudes talking about sex. We would never meet at a party.

Takes a secure woman. Right? That's another reason she's super cool.

Super, exactly. I need a guy who can handle my own, that I'm gonna be talking to 10 guys about sex.

One of the only people I was ever insecure around, I went out on a date in LA with a sex expert and I was intimidated.

Really?

Absolutely.

Oh my God, this is what I get all the time. Why? Because she's a sex expert? Yeah, because she's a sex expert. Okay, this, can you help me with this problem? This is my problem.

I might have been around a lot, but still, like, that's— I know. Okay, you know, like, you guys aren't—

people ask me that since I started the show. And when I started 6 years ago, I was like, no, I'm not intimidating. I'm Emily Morse. You know me, I'm the nicest girl in the world. But after 6 years, and I'm an expert, and I've been doing it, and, and I do feel like a lot of guys either, A, want to just be with me because I'm a sex expert, so they're like, I'll want to bang her.

Yeah, just to say I've been there, I've done that, right?

Or they're super intimidated, and then they can't, like, perform, or they freak out.

Got it. I could see that. Well, as it turns out—

What'd she do?

She blue-balled me twice.

She did? Oh my God, she totally got you there and then—

That was the funniest part, is she got pleased and I got nothing.

Wow.

The first time I was like— Good for her. I was a sucker. The second time I was like, I can't believe you're doing this. I was like, is this part of the expertise?

Right, right.

Because I'm not really getting this.

Maybe she wasn't, yeah. Those who teach, you know, sometimes can't do.

I'm sure she could have, I think she just didn't.

That is funny, you were intimidated. I'm just— goddammit. I don't want to believe it's true, but I think it's true.

And I never understood why people would be intimidated by me because I'm not—

They must be.

I'm not intimidating at all. And there— I remember one woman went out and bought my book and researched me before we went out. And the whole conversation was about me. And that's not a way to have a date.

No.

Where like, I'm— again, I'm nobody, but like when I'm being treated like a celebrity by the person across from me.

We don't want to be treated that way.

Normal. I'm like, no, I'm here, I'm on a date, I'm not— this isn't research.

I'm not analyzing you.

Yeah, I'm not writing a book about you.

Right, unless it goes really bad and then I'll talk about it in the morning on the show. Right, right. Okay, God, that's so interesting.

But yeah, that's, that's one woman. Okay, one of the few times I've actually been like, oh, I'm out of my depth.

So do you think I should say something to the guys and be like, I know this one?

No, I, I think you could, you could kind of downplay it for maybe male ego purposes. It's, no, I, I interview people. It doesn't mean I've slept with 200 people. It means I've interviewed 200 people.

People, right? That's good, that's good. Okay, oh, this is so helpful. Thank you so much. I love it, I like it. Okay, we're good, we gotta go. We've got covered a lot of good stuff here. Evan Marc Katz, your website, Evan, E-V-A-N, Marc, M-A-R-C, Katz.com. Your book, super successful, Doing Well Why He Disappeared.

Thank you.

And I want everyone to check out his website. What else?

Uh, no, I just, uh, coaching. If you need coaching, I've got a, I've got a, I've got group coaching, I got private coaching. I do work with men, it just doesn't say it on my website. I've got a blog where I answer reader questions. We get about 100,000—

I love your blog. He's an amazing writer.

120,000 people a month come to the blog. And so if you just want some really juicy topics and some amazing comments, we've got hundreds of people commenting on it. It's a really kind of cool community.

I love your site. I think it's amazing. I think you've done a great job with it. I think of you as the dating coach. The premier dating coach in America. Evan Marc Katz on my show.

I'm just gonna say nothing and take, take a compliment.

Take it in, take it in. Okay, baby, thank you so much. Thanks everyone for listening to Sex with Emily. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithemily.com.