Find Your Person & Lead Your Love Life w/ Matthew Hussey Pt. 2

Follow your path, not your feelings. It's a very tempting thing to keep being with someone because it feels good, but not realizing that that person isn't on your path because your path, the thing you really want, you are sacrificing.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sexual I'm really excited about today's episode, which is part two of my interview with leading dating expert and confidence coach Matthew Hussey. His new book, love life how to raise your standards, find your person and live happily no matter what is exactly the book we all need in today's world. And in this episode, you'll finally find out what Matthew wrote back to his now wife's very direct and dissuasive text message. We also get into why we should be more concerned with avoiders than trying to spot the liars in relationships. Why you should follow your path and not your feelings. And why speaking your truth is sexy because it's our standards that makes us attractive. And finally, we also answer your dating questions. And we have a new segment on the show called Happy Endings where you hear my producer Falcon and I do our hot takes on the episode in real time. It's a good one guys. So let me know what you think. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. Listen when you rate the show. It helps it get out to more people. People. And it just takes two seconds. You can do it right now. Also find me on Instagram, YouTube, Tik Tok, Twitter or X and Facebook. It's all Sex with Emily. My new articles. Want to improve your sex life? Use these sex scripts and seven hot threesome sex positions are up on sex with emily.com. all right everyone, enjoy this episode.

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Okay, let's get into part two of my incredible interview with leading dating expert and coach Matthew Hussey. His new book is called Love Life and he drops many pearls of wisdom in it. And with us. We last left you with a cliffhanger of a text exchange he had with his now wife Audrey in part one of this podcast. We'll also link that first episode in the show notes. So, as promised, you're going to get the sequence of events that followed. And let me tell you, the story did not go exactly how I thought it would.

People, I'm sure will be tickled by this. When I was dating my wife Audrey, I was the guy for a minute who left. I went back to America, we met in London, I went back to the States, and I was like, I can't do a long distance relationship. And we were dating at the time. We weren't in a relationship. But gradually she started to feel me pull away. And it got to the point where I pulled away so much that it was like there was nothing there anymore. I then sent a message to her, and I roll my eyes at it now, but I sent a message to her saying, I miss you. And this was after like a couple of weeks of no contact, nothing, not trying, like, very bare minimum. Now if she was mirroring me in that moment, she would have been like, I miss you too. How are you? It's been like, you know, what's going on. She didn't do that. She.

Modeled the culture she wanted to see. She sent me a message and she said, hey, I hope you're well. I don't really know what to say when you send me a message like this. We haven't really been that close for a while now. And rightly or wrongly, this message comes across as a bid for attention. Oh, it was one of the most brilliant Brave leading messages that I've ever received in my life. And if you look at the language of that, everything about it was powerful. Firstly, she's still warm. People who have the best standards, who are really grounded in them, they don't lose their warmth and their kindness when they're having a standard. They can maintain all of that beauty at the same time as having a standard. So she said, hey, I hope you're well. There was still warmth there. But then she said, when you send something like this to me, I don't really know what to say. Which is her way of saying, this is really confusing.

Yeah, we were having a good time. Now it's been a few weeks.

And what you're saying is completely out of sync with your behavior. You're saying you miss me, but I barely heard from you. She then said, we haven't been that close for a while now. So that's her shining a light on the elephant in the room. And then she said, and rightly or wrongly. And I think she put those in, like, parentheses. Rightly or wrongly is a beautiful phrase, by the way, because it takes ego out of the equation. It's her way of saying, I'm not judging you, and I'm not pointing at you and saying, you're a bad guy, or that, you know, you truly meant to do this in a malicious way or anything like that. She's just going, rightly or wrongly, I could be wrong. Rightly or wrongly. This message comes off as a bid for attention. She's saying, I might be wrong, but it feels like that's what this is. Tell me if I'm wrong. And I remember feeling completely kind of naked with that message.

I have to circle back to what happened with the text with Audrey.

I haven't even told you the best part of this, okay?

Like, that is because everyone's gonna be like, what the fuck happened now they're married.

By the way, that's the part where Audrey looks. My wife, Audrey looks heroic. Everyone after they hear that wants to meet Audrey. But to me, that's not the most heroic part of the story. The most heroic thing is that I then backed off. I did not. It wasn't like a message that suddenly made me go, I must marry her now.

Oh, my God.

I backed off and went, fair enough. This isn't a match right now because our intentions are completely different. So I am going to back off.

Did you tell her that or you just backed off?

I just pretty much back. I was like, fair. I was like. I was like, I get It. And, you know, and I backed off. But the most heroic part is that on day three of me backing off, she didn't send a message and say, hey, so how are you? And on day seven, she didn't send a message and say, how's your week? And on day 37, she didn't say, so, you know, how are you doing? I'm just wanting to, you know, I've kind of miss you. She didn't do any of that. She took me backing off as a sign that she was absolutely right about what she'd said. She felt validated, and she became utterly disinterested in me.

Like, was done. She's like, yeah, she's clear.

She's done. And that's because it wasn't a tactic, it was a standard.

Yeah, that's such a great point. She wasn't playing any game. It wasn't tactic. She was like, clear. This is confusing to me, what you're saying. I just want to be clear. That makes it sound like you're having a bid for attention, but I'm gonna go live my life now because that wasn't a standard of mine. I want to feel needed, desired.

If a tactic doesn't work for us, we change tactics. If a standard doesn't work for us, we keep it anyway because it's who we are. The standard was who she was. It wasn't a tactic she did to get a result. By the way, a few months later, I reached out to her because I was coming to London, and I was like, hey, are you, you know, around? Can we grab a coffee? And she told me she had a. Was like. She had a boyfriend. She was like, I'm seeing someone now and it could be serious.

So I hope you're well, but it doesn't feel appropriate for me to text you and certainly not to meet up. That was. That was.

That was hard. That wasn't a good day for you?

No, Insane. It was a bad day.

That's a bad day.

It was a really bad day. It was a really bad day.

Andrew thought that, yeah, she'd probably make the time, so.

Yeah, well, one day, a few months from then, I got a text from her saying, how are you? And because of the integrity that she'd had when she was seeing someone, it was very clear to me that now she wasn't. And I was like, well, it's, you know, I. I do. I would like to see her and. But what I knew at that point was I. This is like. This is someone that I have to bring My. A game to. Because it's not like I know what happened last time when I didn't. She meant it. She meant it.

So you really brought it. And you guys were able to. She.

She ended up saying to me, like, if we're going to, like, go there, then this has to be different from last time. It can't be like, last time. I'm not interested in that. And I was like, all right. Like, you know, message received.

Message received. And now you're married, so that was a big lesson for you. Seems like you learned a lot in that relationship.

Yeah. And it was. You know, I think you spoke earlier about bringing your best to someone. I mean, the one thing that she has always done is those standards that she has have always been combined with a beautiful person, you know, like, truly accepting me and loving me and caring about me and showing up for me. And it's a very potent mix when someone brings you this gorgeous energy and they show up for you, and they. And you feel seen by them and you don't feel judged. And I felt like things. Even as I started to become more vulnerable and more trusting with her than I had been in the past, and I started to speak things that I thought, if I speak these, she's not like anyone. I think my whole life I was like, if I say these things, I'm no longer the heroic version of myself. I am insecure. I'm going to be perceived as frail. I'm going to be perceived as not good enough, or I'm going to. Suddenly, it's going to change the way someone sees me. Every time I. I said something like that to Audrey, it was met with more love and more compassion. And I had been like. I remember a specific situation where I was with someone, and I. I did what. I went against my instincts to never be truly vulnerable. And I said something that had made me insecure, but I said it in an honest way, and it backfired because this person said that I find that really unattractive.

It's your biggest nightmare that someone's gonna say worst fear.

And I. And it. Like, it. Like, I look back now and I'm like. You know those moments in the film where, like, something happens and it sends someone to the dark side? You're like, that's where. Oh, that's when he became Voldemort. Like, that was where, you know, like, that's how I felt like I was in that moment. I was so. I was so hurt, and I was so deep down. I was. I felt so unlovable. And I felt so much shame. And I also thought, fuck Brene Brown.

Right. Like, I'm never being vulnerable again. Right, Right.

Just freaking vulnerability stuff. Bullshit. But it. But I was wrong and that was the wrong lesson to learn. But at the time, yeah, of course, it really, really hurt me. And. And I had the complete opposite experience.

Yeah. So you've been knowing the signs to look for. And you've. What I also love in the book you talk about, you've been in all the places you've been the guy in your 20s and 30s, and you've learned the lessons. You've helped people learn lessons.

There's a chapter in the book called Beware Avoiders, and it's a very, very important chapter because we worry so much in life about liars. People who have been had their trust broken are worried about a liar. Like, how do I spot a liar? YouTube has some viral content on, like, how to spot a liar. I actually think spotting a liar is far less important than being concerned with avoiders in life, because most people aren't pathological liars, but a hell of a lot of people are avoiders.

So tell me about the avoiders.

They'll avoid any conversation.

How do we find these people?

Yeah, they'll avoid any conversation, and we all do it. We'll avoid a conversation that has consequences for us that we're not willing to face right now. You know, men or women will do this. I don't want to have a conversation with this person about the fact that I don't really see a future with them because I'm just kind of enjoying it right now and I don't want it to go away just yet because it feels quite nice.

Yeah.

But, you know, so why am I going to precipitate a conversation that's going to blow this up? So they'll avoid it. But an avoider needs another avoider.

Yeah.

You can't be an avoider and be met with someone who's leading with their culture and willing to shine a light on things.

Do avoiders get together then or it just doesn't work? They do, Right?

Yeah. Because here's the. Here's the situation. An avoider is going, I'm never going to give this person a relationship. And they're going, I hope they don't ask so that I can keep dating this person knowing it's not going to go anywhere. And when they, two years from now, say, hey, like, what are we? I can go, what are you talking about? What are we? We're friends. We've you know, like, we've just been having a nice time. I don't know why you're suddenly, like, trying to put a label on it. They've been avoiding it all that time. But how is the other person an avoider? Well, the other person is an avoider because they're enjoying the situation and they're afraid that if they ask the question, what are we? That this person's going to suddenly walk in the other direction. So you've got one person trying to avoid a relationship and one person trying to avoid a conversation about having a relationship because they're afraid that they're going to get scared off. So those two avoiders can funct unhappily for this person for a long, long time. We have to be prepared to say, I'm never going to be an avoider because if I'm never an avoider, you never get to be an avoider with me.

Well, these are such skill sets. Learning to actually know what you want, learning to stand up for that. I feel like so many of us don't do that. I mean, I wouldn't even say it's men or women. I think it's all of us because we, we're still in that mindset. So ways that we have to play the game, we have to be the good person. We're afraid of people's reactions. It certainly wasn't modeled to us. So I think a lot of what you're teaching now is that like, no, like, be the leader of your own love life. Stand up for what you want. If it doesn't feel good, you don't need to ask all your friends about it. If it really didn't feel good, you're allowed to say it without anger. Maybe take a few beats like, this is how it made me feel.

And by the way, avoiding it never ends well for you because you always end up in a situation that you're unhappy with. And there's a chapter in the book called do not join a cult of two, which is what happens when we avoid so much the difficult conversations that we need to have that we end up in order to kind of feel like we're sane, we end up just buying into their logic. I'll give you an example. I had a. A woman who came to me and said, you know, me and this guy, we're both like really busy entrepreneurs and we don't find a lot of time to see each other. And, you know, it's just hard. I'm not sure what to do. We really like each other. But we're just so busy that it's hard to see each other. And I was like, what? I was like, let me get this straight. If he suddenly said, I'm going to free up some time because I want to see you more, would you free up time from your business to see him more? She was like, yeah. I was like, so what you're saying is not really you talking, is it? It's him talking. Everything you just said to me was basically him talking through you. You have co opted his excuse and started to own it as if it's your own. Because it's too painful to admit that you want this. You want something he doesn't.

Yeah, we don't. We're so afraid of it. So we just convince ourselves we're both just really busy. Yeah. After all these years that you've been doing this, what has this shift? Because your strategy has shifted, you've evolved. But do you think that we're ready for this? Because I feel like earlier on it was probably different. What's the change that you've seen for over the years? What would be the main thing? Do you think that we're ready for this kind of conversation? Was there more game playing years ago? Was there more be the cool girl and now that's not okay?

No, no. I think what, what's interesting in general is I think people are craving authenticity now more than ever. I think we have gone like through this weird like 10 years of social media and filters and people being able to like be a certain version of themselves online. And it kind of, it, we're all a little like better at seeing through nonsense and just going, we, I think more of us in general are looking at things going, we don't instinctively trust what we see. We look at that video and we go, oh, that was probably staged. We look at this person and we go, ah. There's probably a thousand different ways that they've adjusted their body and their face and they don't really look like that in real life. We've like reached this place of like distrust in, in so many things that when something comes through and it feels human and it feels authentic and it feels like truth, I think that there is it, it shines and it is like, it's, it's like water in a drought. You're just like, oh my God, this is, this feels real. And so I, I think that there's a lot of people in their love lives that can stand out by having a far greater level of authenticity. And standards are really a form of authenticity. It's like me speaking my truth about what I want, not being ashamed of what I want. Not the primary question being, you know, how do I say this without scaring someone off? That's instead going not going to be my question anymore. I'm not going to keep asking how do I speak my truth without scaring someone off? Instead, I'm actually going to worry more about speaking my truth so that the right people can find me. Because they can't find you unless you're speaking a truth. It's a very simple little moment, but there's a story I tell in the book of a woman who went on a couple of dates with a guy very early on, but she went on, like two dates with a guy, and he had to go away for work for a few days, and she barely heard from him. And she said to him at the end of the trip, she said, I got a little sad while you were away and I didn't hear from you. It made me feel like you might have been sharing your bed with somebody else. And it was like a little moment of vulnerability, but also an expression of intention. And a lot of people won't do that because they'll be like, I want to feign coolness, indifference, whatever. But she, in saying that it was a very simple moment where she communicated, I'm not that person that just, like, wants to be in some casual thing while you also sleep with other people. And he ended up in a relationship with her. And I believe that a big part of the shift in him was that that intentionality in her was actually kind of sexy.

Yeah, I think so, too. So it's a little. We're a little bit braver now, maybe just to say. To say the things.

Well, I don't know if we can't, but what my. My mission with this is.

Your mission is to get people.

Yeah, I want to get people to a point where they not only realize that not having high standards and boundaries and not speaking their truth about what they want is.

Always going to lead to pain, but also a step further than that, that they realize that actually your standards actually are the magnet. They are the thing that makes you attractive. We worry that our standards are going to scare someone away. Our standards are actually what elevate people to their best behavior around us. They rise. Some people will rise to the occasion with us when they haven't with anyone else, because what, the way we're showing up is an invitation to them.

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What can we help people with now? Like, what do you hope people get today from these messages? Because I hear every day from people too. Dating is hard. I'm never going to find someone. You hear all the same things. So, like, what is the reframe if we don't have experience.

Being vulnerable, knowing how to find the right people, avoid the pitfalls. I mean, of course they're going to read your book Love life, but are there just some ways? Because people. There are people. It's like, I'm over it. It's terrible. I can't go out with friends being like, I'm just done. Like, this is, you know, so, so in, in this new wisdom or this wisdom that you have, like, what is it? What are we missing? What are we all doing? Like, there's so many single people out there. Do we first have to be vulnerable ourselves? We have to look at that. We know that we're in a tank and undersee our tank. Find someone else. Or accept that not everyone's going to be able to get vulnerable and then kind of just bail because not everyone's willing to do the work.

It's a combination. It's a combination of the things that you just mentioned. But it's also, I kind of would say to people.

Pace yourself, pace yourself. It's not. If you in a panic, go into a crazy flurry of activity to try to make something happen, then you are going to burn out. And it will also try to make you force it with people who are not. Right. And I think one of the reasons we burn out too often is because we give too much of our energy to people who are really bad places to give our energy.

Right. And I agree with that. And we sometimes don't realize because we think it's too late. How do we. How do we, I don't know, check in with ourselves? We've all done that.

Wait, we think it's too late in what respect?

We just think, oh, well, it's already been five years with the person. Three years. I've already put in so much time. I just wish we all could go back and like, why was I in that relationship? But we don't see it like, you.

Couldn'T have done anything different.

Yeah. So we have to be kind to ourselves.

You couldn't have done anything different. Those are. That's how the dominoes fell for you. Like, it's really, really important to understand that. You can't. I listen. Everyone has their own beliefs around this. I have a somewhat deterministic belief system. I really believe that you couldn't. You did what you did because that was what you were always going to do. You weren't in a place because of your genetics, your makeup, your parents, your mentors or the mentors you never had, the society you were in. Everything was leading to that moment where you made that decision to be with that person or to stay with that person another year or another five or another 10. You were not in a position to do better. And so we have to start looking forward, not backwards, because that's the recipe for forgiveness, is realizing you did the best you could at the time, but you today can do better because you have new tools, you have different wisdom, you have more experience, you have more curiosity. You're listening to this podcast right now. You're going to read this book. Like, they're all new inputs, and new inputs can change the way the dominoes fall. And that's why everything can change.

Everything can change. You're not set. Today could be the first day of the rest of your dating life. You can change a story today.

Yeah. The past does not have to equal the future.

In this area, it doesn't. Okay, so a few more things. Sex. What? Anything. What comes up for you and your people for sex? I'm not going to ask you about your Sex.

Sex.

Every freaking day. There is a study that says no one's having sex. Young people are in their 20s.

That's an interesting.

So are you hearing from people like, I don't know why I'm going out with this person and they're not having sex with me, or I don't want to have sex, or I'm uncomfortable. Are you hearing more of that these days from people? The sex just. The sex isn't happening.

I. That I. I can't say I've seen that. But it's fascinating to me. The data that, like the studies that are coming around, out around young people and how there does seem to be less sex than ever is really fascinating. What I see, whenever I get a question about sex, it's people avoiding the same hard conversations there that they're avoiding everywhere else that the. This huge. I mean, I wrote a chapter in this book called have Hard Conversations. And it's funny, I didn't know if you picked up on this. I did a radio show where I was spokesperson briefly for Trojan Condoms. And there was a radio show host that, you know, got started by saying, you know, we're gonna. We have Matthew Hussey on talking about safe sex for, you know, and we're gonna be talking. And he said, I'll just say it the once. We're gonna be talking about condoms. And he said, so, Matthew, what's the. What's the problem here? Why are we struggling so much? And I was like, well, maybe because you made such a big deal out of just saying the word condom, like, but that's showing up in people's private lives too. Is that same shame around talking about sex, around being open about sex. There's so much of it that is still there for people. The. The struggle to own one's sexuality, the difficulty that people have having what are intensely private conversations with each other. But not knowing is why I love what you do. Because when I've had you on our show, you have this way of. Every time you kind of role play the way a conversation could go in the bedroom or outside of the bedroom, because I know so much of what you say is about the conversations that have out. Have people have outside of the bedroom in, like, really easy, playful environments. It's. There's always such a warmth and a playfulness to it and a lightness to it. And. And people have made those conversations so heavy, and they're so out of practice having them that they don't know how to say what they want. They don't know how to, you know, say what they like, they don't know how to encourage someone to do more of what they like or to speak up when they don't like something. It's. It's just really. It's. It's really sad. But it's no different to the hard conversations.

Exactly. I love that you.

About what are we.

Exactly. Exactly. It's like how you do one thing is how you do everything. If you are avoiding awkward conversations in the bedroom or in the boardroom or in your dating life, like, you're probably doing it everywhere. And that is a skill set. Learning to be vulnerable and have these awkward conversations.

Can I tell you one thing that I'm seeing more of that's kind of weird is like desert. I don't know if you've seen this.

Okay.

But there seems to be this. I don't know if it's just online, you know, it's hard to know sometimes whether it's people or it's just online, but there seems to be more of this almost return to this kind of like, traditional values type thing. There's like the viral. There's like the TikTok trad wife stuff, almost as puritanical return to, like, how women should be right and how many partners they should have had. And if they've had more than that, then they are essentially like, they. They. They're not good women for you. And I'm. I'm. It's a weird. It's a weird thing in 2024 to see, like, the pendulum, in some ways, almost swinging back to this crazy level of judgment and sexism around sex.

I know that that never went away, but there are certain messages that are getting a lot louder. And I think that just to say, like, the fact that judging people and how many number, what's your body count? Like, that makes me crazy. I'm like, no one needs to know that information. Let's not judge people. So to hear that, that is.

I mean, it's not in my algorithm either. No, I know, but I go on podcasts and I get asked by people on podcasts, what do you think of these trends? And I'm like, that's a trend.

Yeah, I know.

That's going.

That happened to me too. So I. I get what you're saying.

But think so we have to be really, really careful with this stuff and focus on the people. Like, you just need to be laser focused on the people that aren't the kinds of people that care.

That's exactly it. And there's so much fear I think once you hear this, you're like, oh, it's like fear based. Like someone's going to judge me so I better not be that person. But like, just people have to. It just. I think the fear makes you feel more like you have to be more conservative. Right. Like, I'm afraid you're going to judge me. So now I should really hold back on my sexuality and then we're just going backwards and that's a disaster. So just keep listening to Sex with Emily and everything that Matthew Hossey has to say because we're going to give people freedom to find their voices, which is really what you do, and define their wants and needs. And there's no like, right or wrong. And this whole like bending over backwards so somebody likes you and contorting yourself into something that you think people want is never going to work for you. And we always have to find out who, who we are, what we want, what feels good to us and what we deserve. I just. Yeah. Sometimes it is still astounding to people. Are just saying some of the things that you're saying are putting up with such bad behavior from people and we deserve to be treated well because we are our own babies.

We are.

We'Re on humans and follow.

I'm my human.

You're. You're human.

Yeah.

That's a really powerful. You're yours. I mean, what could be more beautiful than that and more pure than that? The last thing I would say to people is just like follow your path, not your feelings. It's a very tempting thing to go. Keep following someone, to keep being with someone because it feels good, but not realizing that that person isn't on your path. Anytime I see a woman who is like, who I know, I'm not assuming, I know she really wants a family and she's in her late 30s and then she went to a party and met a 24 year old or a 23 year old guy and hit it off with him. And he's sexy and it's fun and he's charismatic and charming and now all of a sudden she's like on date five with that guy. I'm like, this is a classic example of following your feelings, not your path. Because your path, the thing you really want, you are sacrificing right now for the feeling, the validation, the excitement or just the distraction of this person. We have to be really, really connected to what it is we're looking for and then be very intentional. Intentional about staying on that path. And even if something comes along and it's shiny and it's attractive and it seems fun. If it's not on your path, don't waste your time. And for anyone who is struggling with the wanting a family and feeling you're running out of time, there's a whole extensive I love chapter in the back.

Because that's, that's really important because people do kind of lose their way with that and it is very important. So I think it's all in there. Love, let life. Matthew Hussey. Everyone's got to get your book. I do have some questions from listeners. Dear Dr. Emily, what about situationships? Can they ever turn into real relationships? We can just make these, like, quick answers here, but what's your take on that?

You're in control of whether they do or whether you get them out of your life. And you have to stop waiting for somebody else to turn it into something more. Instead, you have to have a standard that says, I'm going to elegantly communicate to this person what it is I want. And I'm going to tell them that my energy and the love I have to give to someone is really amazing and is really precious. And you want to make sure that you're. You're putting it in the right direction. And if this person isn't on the same page as you, then you're going to have to take that energy elsewhere. You're in control. The very question implies that you're not.

Can they turn into something more? If you're on month three with someone and you're still worried about asking the question of where this is going, then you're. You're already an avoider.

Yeah. You're already. You are the avoidance. You are the problem. You got it. Because we're so afraid. I love this. Okay. Yeah. I think situationships like that's just your part of that situationship. Make it not one. Ask the questions. Get what you need. What's a good tip to help you stop projecting your old relationships onto new love interests?

View them holistically instead of viewing it through the lens of this one thing that has triggered you. Look at the whole relationship. If this person doesn't text you as often as you would like, and that feels like an old relationship where you didn't get the communication you wanted. Ask yourself if it's like the old relationship in all of the other ways. Are they also never calling you or never being present when they're with you or not making you feel safe in the relationship? Or are they someone who actually is making you feel safe in every other way, except that they just aren't a big texter. But if you call them or if you book to see them tonight, they'll be all over it. Look at them holistically. Instead of zoning in on this one thing and allowing that one thing to make you think that it's the same as the other relationship.

Yeah, I think that's great. Get into it. Break it down. How about this one? Can a man that lies and does not keep his promises change his behavior to you over time?

Keeping your word. Here's. Can I say this?

Yes.

That's a. That's what I call a dark pairing.

A dark pairing is where you have two different things in the same person that when they're together, they are uniquely dangerous. So lying on its own, not a good quality. Breaking promises on its own, not a good quality. Breaking promises and lying, really dark pairing. Because if someone breaks their promise but they're honest with you and they're like I said I would get this done today. I'm so sorry. I put too much on my plate. I didn't get it done. I apologize. Then at least them breaking a promise is met with contrition, honesty and vulnerability. But if someone breaks promises and they lie, you're in for a world of pain. So if it's a pattern, I would get out immediately.

Yeah, I'm with you. Get out. I mean, especially if you want to change behavior. Like they might change, but it's not going to be on your watch. Like, it's going to get a long time. If this person ever wants change, they're going to do the work, going to therapy, like bail. We have the answer here.

There's a great Jacob M. Broad quote that goes, consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll realize how foolish it is to think you can change someone else.

Yeah, love that quote. Thank you, Matthew. Thank you for being. Okay. So what's going on where people find your book and join your world and.

Hang out with more? Well, I hope if I haven't been able to sway anyone to buying a book in this conversation, I'm not sure what else to say. I hope that people have heard enough that they would love to get a copy. Of course you can get a copy@lovelifebook.com all the retailers are there. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, international retailers. If you're not in America, I'm doing an event on May 4 called Find your person, which is kind of my answer to okay, I can't guarantee someone finds their person, but if I was taking someone's year and saying, what would I do to engineer the best chances that this event is my answer to that question and every single person who gets a copy of the book. If you go to lovelifebook.com and enter your receipt, you're going to get a free ticket to that event on May 4th. It's exclusive for book buyers. But I really, truly, truly have poured my heart and soul into this and I care about it deeply. I'm very, very proud of it. I truly believe this is going to help people. I'm excited for everyone who gets it, not just because they'll get it, but the more noise we make about it, the more it can get in the hands of someone who has no idea who I am and still needs it, you know? So help me make a splash, people. I would really, really appreciate it.

Yeah, well, it's really well done. It's authentic. It's real. And I know you can feel you in there, your heart in there. And you're so real about your growth and your journey and your path and. And there's a lot of learning. So, yes, get the book.

I love talking to you. I always have. I've always felt we speak the same language and it's such a privilege. I really appreciate you having me on.

I love having you on. Okay, thanks, Matthew.

Thanks, everyone.

Here's our new segment called Happy Endings where I get out with my producer, Falcony, and we just discuss the episode, what we just heard, what we learned right after our guest leaves. And I think there's some really great insights, so I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think. Matthew Hussey is your guy. That's what happens. That's what he does. But I love watching the evolution of a man going through his life and being like, okay, but now I've learned I've become more vulnerable. I've learned to express my emotions. I actually got married in the course since I've seen him last and found love. So I just think it's a beautiful representation of someone. We talk about doing the work and doing therapy. I saw like a. Even a deeper, more soulful, thoughtful Matthew Hussey. So then, you know, the last time he was on, it was just, I mean, Matthew is just. I mean, he was doing this since he was 19 years old. He's in his mid-30s now, so he's got all the answers. You know, I get tons of dating questions and sex questions. So it's like, why'd he ghost? How do I write my dating profile? How do I even Find someone getting people out of their toxic patterns. Like, he's just a master at that, and I love that. So that's the last time I had interviewed him, but now a few years later, to see a much more vulnerable Matthew Hussey, who's truly gone on a journey, done the work, and has found love and actually gotten married, which is incredible. To interview this evolved version of him.

I will say it's like, you know, when we were talking about this episode and his book, you were really leaning into that. And so I feel like maybe that wasn't a surprise for you, but, like.

Was there anything that was a surprise, surprise? Well, I thought it was. Just loved hearing more about the story of his wife and how here he is, this dating expert, whatever, did the classic, like, version of you up, basically. I miss you. And I'm sure she was missing him too, and she was, like, laying it down and that she was the one leading. I thought that was an incredible story. And it sounds like that really had such an impact on him. And we saw the whole journey that it was like, that was really vulnerable, too, to share that story, you know, And I thought that he was maybe gonna say, oh, and then we got back together, but nope, 40 days went by. It sounds like nothing. And then he hit her up again, and she's dating someone. The whole thing. I like. I like that story. That was really. I was surprised by that, but really happy to hear that he has found love. And what a great illustration of that story. Illustrates a lot of what he talks about in his book, too.

Do you see any connective tissue? You know, I know sometimes when you are interviewing people and, like, they're not. You're the sex expert, right? Like, they're not necessarily the sex expert, but oftentimes in relationships and dating and love, there are through lines for all of it. Do you hear anything in your interview today?

Yeah, there's so many through lines. And at the end of the day, I always say communication is a lubrication. And he has a whole chapter. Awkward conversations. I mean, listen, here's the through line that most of what is keeping us all from having the sex life, the relationships, the love life that we want is our ability to know what we want, to truly, deeply know what we want and then be able to express that to another person across the board. I think that that is just the. The through line. Like, how do we get clear on what we want? How do we let go of people pleasing and wearing whatever we' else thinks, get clear on it and then be Able to talk to someone. Yes, we might hurt their feelings. It might not be perfect, but literally, I have to be the master of my own ship. I have to be steering this. I'm in charge. I'm the leader. No one else is going to do it for us.

You know what else I loved, I will say, too, is that.

She'S making me laugh. I love that you often, the kinds of men, especially that you like to have on your podcast, are men that do the work. And in this interview today, I feel like you were able to extract from him very personal stories, which I think was really cool to hear, because it's aspirational.

Yeah, well, that's why I think it's important, because I think a lot of men want to do the work or they hear about the work and they don't know. So the reason why I have men on like that is because I think. I just think it's such a great service to men. I mean, to everyone. Everyone. To see that it is possible because men were so brought up with the opposite, like, man up, don't have feelings, don't have emotions. So anytime we can see a man who's successful and respected and smart and also vulnerable is. Is just really important. So those are the guys I. I tend to have on the show.

Well, I think it's important. I also feel like I wish I had heard from a guy's perspective, like, that whole story about his wife. Actually, I wish I had at one point in my dating life heard a story like that because it would have stopped me. It would have stopped me from sending that second text, the third text. Like, hey, so what'd you think of my text? You know, like, it's like she laid down the line, and she laid down.

The line and she stuck with it. I mean, that's amazing. I mean, that is such a great message for so many because we've all been there. And to be honest, I've been the one who sent the text, like, I miss you to get the attention. Like, I've been more on the male side. I think in many things, people would say that. So I'd love to be shut down sometime. I mean, anyway, I wish I heard that perspective, too, because I think in our generation, maybe, and maybe all generations, it's like, be cool. It didn't matter. Oh. Oh, miss you too, babe. Hope you're doing great. My life is so fun over here. I hope your life is fun, too. And be casual and cool. Like, no big deal that you're texting me three weeks Later. Even though we know that. Because I always like to think, well, what if a friend did that? What if. Fel. In our friendship, we were talking every day. We were good friends, and then all of a sudden, I didn't hear from you. And then like a month later, you're like, hey, babe, what's up? I wouldn't be like, hey, I'm good. I'd be like, oh, I've been thinking about you. I miss you. How are you? So why should we lower the standards or change what we expect from a friend or a family member? Why do we give people that we're dating so much leeway to make us feel bad and that we have to be cool? Why not be real? Right?

You're right.

Yeah.

You're right.

Give them a Runway to, like. Like, Because. Oh, there's some.

We put them on a pedestal or something. Yeah, but it's. What. You know, that was the big moment that we actually had in our friendship. If we're.

You know, since we real.

Yeah. Remember when I, like, I had asked you for something, but then I didn't hear from you, and I was just like, hey, it's really hard for me to ask people for things. I'm so sorry if I. I mean, we just went into it, and you were like, no, babe, I was just busy recording or whatever it is you were doing, you know? But I remember that, to me, was like, the turning point. But I always think that. I always think that in any relationship, there's always that turning point where it's.

Like, okay, we've had a rift or something.

The first difficult conversation on my end. Maybe it wasn't for you.

Yeah, I know.

You know what I mean?

Yeah. No, I think so, too. I think that we're so afraid of confrontation. We're so afraid of actually saying what we want with fear of rejection, which we all. I think we all, deep down, have a big fear of rejection, which is really a fear of being unlovable, being rejected. And that is like, our great. I think that is probably humanity's greatest fear. And so I. That's why conflict is so hard for people. But I also respected that you said that. And I was able to be like, oh, my God. No, that's. You know. And I think once we do that, like you're saying in relationships, then we can repair. And I like to say relationships are not about perfection and everything going smoothly. They're about how do you repair it. And when you can repair a rift or you can have those kind of conversations, then those are your people. And you're my person.

You're my person too. What were your takeaways? Did you have any takeaways from this conversation?

I think my takeaways were from this conversation. Is that just really about that there's no more room for playing games, being cool, like waiting for someone to call you. That there's all these rules. It's just really about self empowerment, self assuredness, and that if you are having a hard time dating, you're not finding your person. You know, people love to say the town there's the worst town to date. And everyone thinks they live in the worst town. But I, I think that what we really learned is that we can all benefit from being really clear on what our values are, what we're looking for, what we will and will not tolerate. And once you start to look at that, it may be a lot easier to find people who are, you know, on board. On board with your. What you're looking for. I think that's a tank thing, right?

It's like when he was. I love that. The tank. When he talked about how, like the dolphins in the tank.

Yeah, the dolphins in the tank. That was a big one about like, we all. And I love the thing in the tank because, like, it's like we, we all grew up. Our tanks is our home. It's our family life, our caregivers, where we grew up. And for the, the first, for in those early years when our brains were forming from age like 1 to 18, let's say you live with the same family, caregivers, brothers, sisters, whatever. You have like this prefrontal cortest, your amygdala gets all. Still developing. So it makes sense that this is your world. The tank is everything. And then you go outside. Like when you go to college, you go out in the world and you don't realize that everyone else does things differently like that. And some of us still live in that tank. So to think that not everyone's been in my tank. I love that reflection. Think, like, maybe what I believe to be true, why this person gave me this look or said this thing. Give them the benefit of the doubt, Ask a question rather than making assumptions. Because we all grew up in our own tanks.

It's true. In my, in my tank, I wasn't allowed to talk about sex.

Yeah.

I wasn't even allowed to wear a bathing suit. Like that showed anything. That was my tank. So you have opened up my tank. Like the water has, like, come flooding into my tank where I'm like, okay.

Go topless let's go. Go topless.

Do this naked.

I love it.

Yeah, I'm sure you do that for.

A lot of people. Yeah, I hope I do. I hope I do. Yes.

And, you know, a lot of the men that you have on too, like, not to single them out because women also actually really do say to you often that, like, they love being on this podcast because I. I do think you open them up to talking about sex, actually.

Yeah.

In moments that maybe they're not even putting the connective tissue there. Yeah.

Yeah. I love. I love making people feel safe to realize that it's okay. Because also, as we know that talking about sex is a practice. So the more at first you think you can't do it or it's hard, but the more you do it, the more comfortable it becomes. So anyone we have on the podcast, I love that they feel open and they share things they might not share elsewhere. And this is a safe space for everybody because really, we all learn from each other's stories. So the more vulnerable we can be and the more we can share, the more we're on going to learn.

I love it.

That's it for today's episode. See you on Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to, like, subscribe and give us a review. Wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Sex with Emily. Oh, I picked told. I give really good email. So sign up at sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559-talksex. That's 559-825-5739. Or go to sexwithemily.com askemly. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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