Going Down (Under) with Cyndi Darnell

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day. Hey, Emily.

Boyfriend. Cuz my man E here, he just got his heart broken.

He thinks you're kind of cute. A girl's gotta have her standard.

Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me? Oh my God, I feel so good. Being bad feels pretty good.

Well, you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com where you can check out the website every day. We got new blogs. We got videos. We have a lot happening there. Also, you guys, I love when you subscribe and review the show on itunes. It really helps the show, and I appreciate you guys taking a few minutes to do that and letting us know what you think of the show. And also, you can follow me on social media across the board. It's all sexwithemily, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. And I'm not just asking you guys to follow me, like, just because, like, it'd be cool to have you and, like, have a number, another number. But when you guys, like, join me on Facebook and social media, you can be part of the conversation that we're having here and you can share what you're learning from my podcasts and the blogs, like, with your friends, your lovers. And also, I'd love to hear your insights and all that so you could be helping, like, a fellow Sex with Emily listener by, like, sharing your views and thoughts and opinions and all that. So I appreciate it. Thank you for connecting with me and thank you for supporting the show. Also, sexwithelmily.com podcast, you guys, I've been doing this for 12 years, and I've got so many podcasts that aren't even on itunes. So you can find them all there on the website and subscribe to our newsletter. I know it's the last thing you subscribe to. Two things I'm asking you. The podcast and the newsletter. People like our newsletters. Once a week, we send them out. People like, I really liked your email, Emily. Like, I'm like, you read it. People read them. They're fun. They sum up what's happening here. We send you some more. The podcast, some tips, some blogs, all that stuff. So that's what I got for you. I'm dying to welcome my guest. She flew around the world just to be here with me today. I know you were here for other reasons, but Cindy Darnell is one of Australia's leading sex and relationship therapists. She is amazing. I've been hearing about her through my good friend Elle Chase, sex educator, who's also here in the room for years. And she just explained. She said she's like the Emily Morris in Australia. Cindy, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to the show. We have a lot of listeners in Australia and you're just so impressive. Everything you've done, I've like you, darling.

You're impressed.

Your website, your blogs and all your amazing stuff you've going on, it's super impressive and I'm glad that I, you're here and that you, you made it into the studio.

Thank you. I'm really glad to be here. I love, I love, love, love being in the us I really adore this country. So thanks for having me.

Of course.

I'm here for a month.

A month? A month in la?

No, no, no.

Oh, then you're going to New York for the fancy speaking thing you're doing, right?

Yes, I'm going to the Omega Institute in New York for the 16th to 18th of June, running a workshop for two and a half days for couples, so called sacred sexuality.

Okay. And people can sign up for that.

And the on the Omega website or if they can't find it on the Omega website, my website, cindydarnell.com under upcoming events. It's listed there.

Okay, cool. And this, all your information will be on our website as well with this podcast, with this post. So tell me a little about yourself because you have an interesting like, niche, like connecting with like couples and singles and working people in relationships. So can you tell me a little bit about how you like. I wanted to sign up on your website.

Oh, good.

Like I was like, wow, you really can help with anything. You know, like you actually see, you see patients, clients. Yeah, I see clients, clients. One on one on one, one on.

One, two on one. Yep.

So yeah, tell me, tell me a little bit how you work.

So I, I call myself a sex and relationship therapist. That's the most accurate description, I guess, for what I do. And what that means is I work in a therapeutic context, so I'm a qualified psychotherapist. But I specialized in sex and relationships because it's something that I think a lot of people still really struggle with, particularly in Australia, around the world as well, because it is such a taboo and a lot of relationship therapists tend to not want to do or they've not been trained in managing sex stuff. Because I think the narrative that is so common is that sex and relationships are the same thing. And that if you're a relationship therapist, then you must also be a sex therapist. And they're actually really quite different fields. They're complementary, but they're not exactly the same. Like coffee and milk. You know, they go great together, but they don't, you don't need to have them together. You can have them separately. So my interest in sexuality and relationships has been, I think it really started in sexuality about 20 something years ago. I had the pleasure of meeting Annie Sprinkle and Barbara Carrillos when I was very, very young. And Barbara Karelles and I in particular formed a very strong friendship back then. And so she's been a mentor to me for many, many years. And so much of the work that I do has been influenced by her ideas and values. And even though she's not a therapist, she's very much someone that I credit with kickstarting my career in Australia 20 years ago in this field. So I've gone on since then.

For people who don't know who Barbara Karellis is, Could you.

So Barbara Karelles is from New York and she's the author of Urban Tantra, among other things, and is, I think, one of the world's leading tantra experts. And she's also one of the world's pioneers in teaching tantra from a non gender specific aspect. So she has sort of blown the whole idea of sort of divine masculine and divine feminine out of the water and has really pioneered a whole new approach to tantra, which is all gender inclusive. And she's amazing. And her partner is Kate Bornstein, who is well known for being a very well loved trans activist and most recently on the Caitlyn Jenner reality show. So, yeah, they have both been. So it started with Aunties My sex.

I love it. But they were here. But you've, you've stayed in touch with over the years, you mentor. Okay, so, so it started with, with that. And then you, you got your degree in therapy.

Yeah, so I went and studied therapy first. I was just a regular, you know, garden variety psychotherapist first. And then I found that the, the therapeutic community in Australia and internationally is on many levels quite conservative, especially when it comes to sex, because there's a lot of misunderstandings about even the concept of what is sex, what is normal sex, who has it, who's allowed to have it, and the notions around all the taboos and what's allowed and what's not allowed really throws people. And because, you know, we've all pretty much grown up in some version of a sex negative culture. If you haven't learned to talk about sex in helpful and meaningful ways, even if you're a trained therapist, you can be trying to be helpful with your clients and still make mistakes if you're feeding in to old ideas that are limiting and, and shaming of people's sexuality. And I don't just mean their orientation, I mean their practices, what they actually do.

But the relationship. I. But the relationship therapists do. I agree because I feel like people that it is so different and that I actually think a lot from a lot of my listeners who call and who, who email the show, I' they just need. People need sex therapy more than relationship therapy.

Yeah, well, yeah, it's complementary.

It is complementary. But the fact that, you know, both in most and I understand that most relationship therapists really don't.

They don't.

It's a whole different. Really. How would you explain. I think you do it well on your website, but how could you explain the difference what someone would get from relationship therapy and sex therapy?

Well, it would depend on the problem that they're having because I think we all get tricked into different beliefs about sexual and relationships because of the narratives that we are taught from a very young age. And this happens through movies and books and news and just, you know, common assumptions about how things are. And I think one of the biggest things is that intimacy and eroticism are the same and they're really not because you can have intimacy that is very sort of vulnerable, making heart connected, all that kind of, you know, yummy, mushy, security oriented stuff. And that can actually put out the fire of eroticism for a lot of.

People, cancels it out. Right.

And that can be problematic for people in long term relationships, particularly people in long term monogamous relationships. How do we navigate that space between wanting to feel safe and wanting to feel hot? You know, so this is where it becomes a particular skill in dancing between those two points on the spectrum and what is possible and also engaging people in conversations about what's normal. Because I think a lot of folks get very, very invested in being normal, as in sort of in contrast with being content, that people really want to be normal. They like, you know, they'll say to me, how often should we be having sex? You know, and they want some sort of like, you know, 1.7 times a week or whatever. And instead, well, I'll say to them, first of all, what kind of sex are you talking about? And then it's like, why do you, why do you want to be normal? Why do you care what other people are doing? What is it? What matters to you? And people get. Spend so much energy on trying to be normal and very little energy on trying to be content or trying to be happy.

So true.

And it takes them away, it distracts them from where they could actually find the contentment that they're Looking for?

Absolutely. I mean, there's so many things in what you just said. I'm like, I want to talk about all of them. Because I do feel like, well, first of all, we get, you know, hundreds of emails here a day. Questions. And I feel like everybody just like at the end of the day, like, am I normal? Is it okay? Just tell me I'm okay, Tell me. Okay, it's the number one question, right? Like, is it normal? And it's like, it's like, how does it feel to you? Obviously, if it's harmful to your life if something's, you know, if you're, for example, with porn, if you're watching too much porn and it's a problem if you can't go to work and you can no longer have an erection or then, then we could talk about it. But most things people are worried about are, they're fine, it's okay to express your sexuality. Giving people permission to find out what is hot for them and what works for them. So I think that's, that's such a great, interesting way to describe it like that. Why, why does everyone really care? I was like, you're fine, you're fine, don't trip on it. But also when you're talking about working with couples. So like one of like the top questions we get asked and probably things that you deal with is libidos, like mismatched libidos and couples because of what happens in that long term relationship where intimacy does kind of, you know, stamp out desire and they all cancel. You know, we get close and comfortable, you know, we become one. But yeah, we don't want to have sex with our partners. And, and people always say, you know, and then they go to a relationship therapist only. And I'm like, what do you just keep talking about the same issues over and over again and you're never going to get down into what's really going on. So I'm guessing with sex therapy you kind of help them untangle that probably remove resentments that have built up over time.

Yeah.

And, but then also in dealing with, it's interesting, intimacy versus eroticism. So if they come to you and they're like. Well, I don't even know what you mean by like. Do you help them identify what's erotic to them and share fantasies and stuff like that?

Absolutely. Well, yes. And I don't necessarily think that sharing fantasies is always the helpful thing.

Not all fantasies.

Yeah. So sometimes it's helpful, sometimes it's not. But helping people work out what it is that Turns them on.

That's in contrast.

Yeah, in contrast with what it is they want to have in a relationship. Because what we lust after sometimes can be very different to what we want in a partner, in a life partner. And that is, I think, a relatively common quandary for folks. And it's something that we are not equipped to manage because our sex and relationships education at school doesn't navigate that ambiguity, you know, and for a lot of people, what's hot is the ambiguity is that area of, oh, I don't know about this. And that for a lot of people is sexy. Do you want to open a bank account with someone that makes you feel a bit unsafe? Not necessarily, but it can be a real turn on to go, oh, you know, what is it about this person that's so intoxicating? But. But we're not going to get a mortgage together.

Exactly. So how do you keep them? So what is it with. I know it's not just one answer, but how do you help couples fan those flames again and feel like, get that ambiguity back when they're like, we've been living together and we own a house and have six children?

Yeah, look, it's not easy, I can tell you that. But it does involve what I call a degree of self inquiry. So you need to go back and look at what your motivations for having sex are now.

Yeah, you said, okay, let's go back to that. So they have to think about, they.

Have to think about what their motivation is. So if they are looking for a motivation, that is what, you know, like lust oriented, that they want to feel that lusty kind of hot energy that you feel when you first meet somebody. You might not get that again in a long term relationship. I'm not saying that you won't, but you might not. So I often refer to it as that kind of intention of sitting at the. You're trying to get to a destination, but you're sitting at a bus stop and you're waiting for a bus that never comes because you're waiting to feel in the mood. You're waiting to feel hot, you're waiting to feel excited and that bus isn't coming. And in the meantime, you're sitting at the bus stop and all these cars are going past and Ubers are going past and your friends are going past taxis. Everybody's going, you know, do you want to ride? Do you want to ride? And you're like, no, no, I'm fine. I'm just going to sit here and wait for the bus and you sit and you sit and you sit and you wait for years for this bus that never comes. And in any other situation, if you had a destination to get to, you would. You would walk if you had to get there. But for some reason, when it comes to sex, we are so invested in having lust be the motivator that we will sit and wait for that bus even if it doesn't come.

Right. And we don't even investigate what. Yeah.

And we don't investigate other modes of transport. If we want to get to a place, we might have to get there in a bunch of different ways. And if that bus isn't coming, that's going to be okay. How else can we get there? Can we catch a ride with somebody else? Uber, taxi, whatever. And the thing with sex is that folks get really locked into it. It has to look a certain way and it has to be a certain way. And it has to be like it is in the movies or it has to be like it was when I was 16 and it's like maybe it's not.

You break that down. You break down.

Absolutely. And that can take a bit of while.

Yeah, it does. I mean, I. I was going to ask you about. Because sex education here is abysmal. We don't get any sex education in Australia.

It's the same.

So, yeah, I mean, Australia, because I told you, like, we do have so many. Hello to all my Australian listeners and all my listeners. But. But yeah, I was just wondering why the huge influx lately also of listeners. I don't know if like, like what you're saying is. It's just. Even you're. It's less there. Even less education, less.

I don't know that it's less, but it's just sex is not something that's necessarily socially talked about. I mean, there's a. There's a presence of sex in the media, but it tends to not be especially robust. It tends to be very kind of light and it tends to be sort of very focused on being normal. There's not a great exploration of sort of alternative sex practices or alternative relationships. That is slowly starting to happen. But folks are still, you know, trying to. Playing the normal game, I think, in a lot of ways. And slowly, slowly that's going to start opening when we get more access to more information.

Right. Is there anything that you see as a difference, though, between you've spent a lot of time in the States and, and Australia, that's kind of a different kind of approach to sex, besides not talking about it? Is there Anything. I don't know, trends or things have come up lately that you're like, oh, that's interesting. In Australia.

I think, is it all the same?

It's. It's pretty much all the same in terms of the information that's fed to us through the media is similar to what's going on here. But in terms of, like, when I teach classes in Australia and when I teach classes in the us I'm often amazed at how much more open Americans are with their personal information in public spaces. Would never, ever.

Oh, my God, we are those kinds.

Of questions in public. They would come up one at a time and, you know, I will be at an event for an hour and a half afterwards answering questions one by one. That would happen in a public forum in the U.S. we're like, I was having analysis.

Yeah, yeah.

Australians would never, never, never do that.

Yeah, I guess that's it. But really, it's just sex. It's just this big enigma with sex that. I agree with what you're saying, that we all think we will work on every other part of our life.

Yeah.

Well, anything we want to be good at or we want to strive, we want to achieve goals. Like, we'll work really hard at our. On our health. Like, if we want to, like, run a marathon, we'll train for that, our spirituality. But sex is like this mystical thing that we believe should just be amazing and perfect all the time, because it was really good during that glorious honeymoon phase, the first few months, and it's magic. People think of sex as being this magical thing, and when it's gone, it's poof. Yeah. And it's just like, I spend so much time, you know, as I'm sure you do, just trying to get people even. Just the basics of it. It's gonna take some work. The bus. You're gonna have to look at where you're going, but it's like, fun. It's like, this is an interesting kind of work. This is the best kind of work you could do. It'll help every other area of your life. So I just.

And also, I think it's a process. I mean, it never ends. You know, I've been studying sex in various forms for over 20 years, and I still feel like I don't know everything. I know a lot of stuff, but then I think I get to a point where I know a thing and then it changes. And I'm like, ah.

Actually, no, it's not that exactly. Else. But what about the clitoris thing that just came out the other day, I'm like, I thought I knew everything. Is nothing new to. To us, but that there's. Now they found out that clitoris is actually internal as well. Yeah, Study. I'm like, we knew this.

Yeah, yeah.

But great that they're still studying it. It's not those, like, the G spot does exist. Doesn't exist kind of thing. I'm like, what are. These are the stupidest studies you could ever do. But. But, like, let's talk about the clitoris. Like, did you see. This was like a few days ago. They're just like, I don't even. It was a study, but we've known for a while.

We know.

We know the clitoral legs and internal. And, you know, I mean, do you do that with. Are you explaining to them? Because I would think that just a lot of women I know, they don't even understand their bodies or where to go or masturbation.

Absolutely.

Do you give them homework assignments?

Yeah. Well, that's why I made my video series, the Atlas of Erotic Anatomy and Arousal, which is based on that kind of information, explaining to people how their bodies work from a pleasure perspective and not a reproduction perspective. So that's one of my real bugbears that I. In Australia, the term sex and relation. Sorry, sex and reproductive health is thrown around a lot. I don't know if that's a phrase here.

It is.

But the emphasis is on reproduction. And the truth is, who has sex for reproduction? Very few people.

Oh, my God.

Very, very few people.

First of all, not sexy.

It's. Well, it's not very sexy. And if, you know, you think about all the times that you've had sex in your life, Emily. And certainly all the times I've had sex in my life. How many of those times have been to make a baby?

Never.

See, there you go.

Right?

So the emphasis on sex being for reproduction, especially when it comes to women's sexuality, it's so glossed over with this fertility story. And there's no room for women to escape from that narrative and create a new narrative that's about pleasure.

Exactly.

So that is a really big thing that has to change. And when they don't even know what's going on with their vulnerability, this is the thing.

Okay? So the internal clitoris or that thing you never knew you had. So now it came out. Even in 2017, there's still so much about women's anatomy that we're not talking about. For example, most of us probably don't know that there's more to Our clitoris than the little rosebud shape. Now we know this little shape, but now they're talking about the internal clitoris, which I don't really. I actually didn't read. Okay, let's see. It's bigger than you think. External circulus. You know, we know all this, but I don't know why this study just came out, but. But I'm glad that it did. That people don't know.

And there needs to be more.

Absolutely.

About this.

I know. I mean, it says there's not a lot understood about it. Thank God. That they're. You know, whatever. I mean, I'm glad that they're. I'm like, okay, welcome to the party. But you're right. Women do. You need to understand.

Glitter's ring.

Oh, my God. I was looking. Okay, so I've been looking at your ring, and I thought it was like a wishbone, which is. See, talk about that over the clitoris. I'm like. And I was just gonna compliment you on your ring. Yeah, I freaking want that. Where'd you get it? It's gorgeous.

Penelope Jones, I think is her surname. She's a jewelry designer in New York.

And she makes these a. I can't even speak anymore. Yeah, it's called a clittering clitter ring.

Penelope is Penelope with an I at the end.

Oh, my God, it's gorgeous.

Isn't that amazing? And it comes in the gold color and then silver color.

Oh, my God. I have really wide fingers. Nothing ever fits me.

Oh, gee.

I know you know what they mean. Wide fingers, really wide clitoris. Does that mean anything? Oh, I love it. Okay. Sorry. I'm really obsessed with this clitoral ring and your other ring, too. They're beautiful jewelry.

Thank you.

Gorgeous. You're stunning. Thank you, Jelly. Okay, so where were we? Clitorises. Clitoris is everywhere. Clitoris is up on the wall because they're pretty little pink. We have little lips on the wall. But maybe we could just decorate with clitorises and such.

I think that's a great idea. Okay.

Cindy Darnell, I love that you're here. This is. We're just getting started. This is just like our foreplay. Oh, you're gonna stay. We're doing some sex in the news. We're going to answer some questions from the listeners. But right now, we're gonna take a quick break, give a shout out to our sponsors. Thank you so much for supporting them and helping keeping the show free. I love you all. We.

Okay. I'm here with Cindy Darnell. She is Australia's finest leading trusted therapist, relationship educator, everything in Australia, you are the, you're the go to sex person.

Thank you.

I want to come hang out with you in Australia.

Please do. That would be fabulous.

I know. We'll just dress up like come on down. Okay, I'm, I'm coming, coming, coming. Okay, listen. So sex the news. There's other studies. We talked about the clitoris earlier, how happy couples deal with mismatched sex drives. Okay. So we've got this, this study that came out. Glad we're studying clitoris and sex drives. Says how happy couples deal with mismatched sex drives. So mismatched libidos. I'm sure that's probably. People come to you all the time.

Very, very common.

Right. But here's the thing. I hate to say it's a problem like who wants everything? You're not hungry the same time as your partner. You don't always want to watch the same TV shows. Why would you want to have sex at the same time always, for the all the time years you're together? Anyway, so they did the study and we'll get through them and they give tips and how to keep. And I wanted to discuss them with you, but it says the interesting thing they found in this study was having sex less often wasn't linked to lower levels of relationship or partner satisfaction. So earlier you were saying people want to know how many times a week is normal. And I always say, I'll never give you a number. I'm not, I'm not going to trap you in. But what this study says though is that like this is not necessarily about the number of times a week you're having sex that makes them happy. So they talked about some things in here that like, that does work for couples and, you know, let's see what they say. So they say if you laugh a lot, again, you know, we probably could have done the study. But if you laugh, happy couples sex is really important. But in happy couples, sex was really important, but it wasn't everything. If you're looking at a dip in sex drive, you should, you know, laugh about something together. Just laughing.

Yeah, look. And I think that's that thing where, you know, love and sex are not the same thing.

No.

So you can have a really happy relationship and have not much sex in it, or you can have a relationship that is based on lots and lots of frequency of sex because you're wanting to be normal or whatever your motivation is and be resentful and grouchy about it.

Exactly.

So bigger Is not always better. And frequency is not necessarily to be confused with the quality of sex.

Exactly. It's more about the quality than the quantity when it comes to sex. And what works for you and your part. If it's you guys are happy with once a week when whatever the number is.

Exactly.

Great. If there's no problem, there's no problem.

Exactly.

Why are we trying to create a problem?

I think it's a lot of this chill out, everyone being made up, you know, that we're supposed to be doing it this many times a week or this many times a month. And there's no question about, well, what's it, who's doing what to whom? Who benefits?

People. Exactly.

What are we doing here? Are we trying to connect? Are we trying to have a good time? Are we trying to come? Like what? You know, if you really need to have an orgasm, just masturbate. Problem solved.

Exactly right. And that's what you said. That's why you help couples too. You help them realize, like, why do you want to have sex? Why are you even doing it? Which is such a good way to put it. Like what is your purpose of it? Is it to like check off the list? Right.

Yeah.

Okay. So the other happy things that happy couples, how they deal with this mismatch sex drive is that they. They date. It says date her, plan or date him too. Plan date nights, weekend trips, even an amazing evening walk with your partner. Non sexual closeness is important too. So that's also helping to build intimacy, which is so true. Like keep that romance. I mean, get away, go out of town.

Even if it's taking your partner for granted, Putting in the effort as you would with any. And I think one of the things that we forget too is that relationships are alive. They're not monoliths, they're not static. They need nourishment. And if you don't nourish a relationship, like a child or a pet or a plant, it needs nourishment. It's something that lives with you. If you don't nourish it, it's gonna. It's gonna perish, it's gonna die. So if you don't invest in your relationship with. In the form of attention and energy, it's gonna die also. So this whole thing that, you know, we love each other and we made our commitment and we, you know, that's it, we're done. Now it's like, no, you got to keep investing time and effort and energy.

Right. It's almost like they sign. I was thinking of like signing a car lease. Like you sign a car lease and like every, you know, at least you have to go for your. I just had to go over my checkup for one year. Like they made me go like Minnie was like, I have Mini Cooper and the lights were going off. I had to go. But in relationships, you sign that, you get married and no one's like, until there's a crisis and it's on fire, people aren't thinking, they have to maintain it and work on it. That it's literally magic. We got married and we made the commitment.

Yeah. It's like a once only thing. No, not at all.

Okay. Have a sex bed. Have a separate bed. I guess if you can. If you don't live in a studio, but kids falling asleep in the bed or a partner snoring, we're listed as some of the common barriers to a bustling sex life. So have separate beds. Have separate beds, sleep in separate places. I think separate home sounds delightful. Are you married? Are you in a relationship? Are you?

No.

Okay.

No and no.

Okay. No. Yeah, me neither. But I'm like, if I was, I would not want them sleeping over in my house. I mean, I wouldn't want to share a home. I don't think.

I think, look, some of the most successful relationships that I've seen through my work are couples who, they don't live in the same house and a lot of them don't live in the same city.

Right. Because you, you need that space and that helps to create the, intensifies the.

Eroticism because you've got something to look forward to.

Right.

You get, you create that longing again. It's like, I'm not going to see you for two weeks and I can't wait to see you and it's going to be really exciting. And that in, you know, you can keep the thing going with sexy text and all that kind of stuff. Whereas if you're seeing each other morning, noon, night, or you're seeing each other every day and you know you're smelling each other's farts and all that stuff, it's just not very sexy anymore.

Right, Exactly. It's so not like, shut the bathroom door at least.

Really?

Everyone can do that. You can shut the bathroom door and maybe fart in the closet.

Just.

You could do that.

It's just men.

You can try. Right, exactly. No.

How big of man is.

I know, it's true. Okay, so here's my question for you though. What are some of the than the unique ways that you think have helped Couples. Because I know that there's probably a lot of people listening. What am I supposed to do? We don't have this extra bedroom. We've got kids, you know, we both work a lot. We. We share a bed. For now, we've got everything planned. We can't leave town. How would you. They're going, how can I get the space? Emily? They're listening, going, what do we do?

Look, it's really difficult. It's really, really difficult. If you don't have the, you know, access to such resources where you've got time or babysitters or space away, it can be really, really difficult. And it really, I guess it really comes down to then making your sex nights or your date days or whatever they are, making them a priority where you can. And if you can get kids to go off with grandma or aunt and uncle and. Or just, I guess, to seize any opportunity. And also to remember that whole idea about the bus stop that if it comes to your, you know, date night and you're not in the mood, that sometimes waiting for the mood to be the thing that motivates you to getting into sex is not going to be the thing. And that once you start, then the arousal comes, then the mood comes, and then you're like, you know, 20 minutes in, you're like, actually, this is. This is great. It's a little bit like waking up on a cold morning and going to the gym and you look outside and you think, oh, I really don't want to do this. But you make yourself go. And once you're there, then the endorphins are kicking in and you're like, yeah, this is great. And I'm really glad I'm here now, but it took me 30 minutes to get into Exactly.

That's what I always.

And sometimes sex is going to be like that, and it's not very, you know, it's not very pretty and it's not very romantic and it's certainly not very rom comy, but it's just how it is.

You know, I use the same gym analogy like you. And you're never going to regret, like you might. The hardest parts of life is getting out the door, getting your shoes tied to. But getting your shoes tied, but getting your shoes on.

That is steady.

For me, it's finding my shoe. One's in the car, one's, you know, under my bed. But the thing is, is that I feel like, yeah, you're not gonna regret it. No one ever says, why to go to the gym or why to have Sex, right. Like, you're gonna be happy that you did it. You got to get started, but you got to make that connection that it. You gotta, like, force yourself to do it. But here's the interesting thing. I was thinking about so many couples who don't, you know, I get it. You don't have the resources, you don't have the kit, you know, you don't have help. But the thing is, if it's a priority going into the relationship, yeah. You have enough money probably to do, you know, enough resources to maybe, I don't know, eat out a few times a week or whatever. You budget your buddy, you. I think there needs to be part of that or your time, your resources, which is money, time, other things like that towards a relationship. Like, we need to. This date night is a requirement. So whatever we have to do to get a babysitter, to get the help, to get somebody or to wake up an hour earlier to have sex, I mean, it has to be the priority because this is.

You will if it is something that you want.

Right.

You do have to put in the effort to make it happen.

Right?

Yeah. And I guess one of those things, too, is that a lot of folks are tired at night and they sort of think, you know, it gets to date night night, and they're tired. And so to remember that sex doesn't have to happen at night. It can happen on a Saturday morning or a Sunday afternoon. And that's often when folks are less anxious because then they don't have to go to work. And if they can take, you know, the kids can go away for sports classes or whatever they can do in the afternoon. And then you've got a window of two or three hours to drop the kids off at basketball and come home and do your business. And you've got energy because it's still the middle of the day, you're not tired, and you don't have to go to work, and you can focus and spend that time sort of just getting into stuff. And if, again, if it is a priority.

Right. We all have. Right. If you make it a priority, you will. Then you'll start to see the time and the day. You're like, I don't really need to go shopping right now or do this thing or stare at my Instagram for an hour. Whatever people are doing with their spare time, you could find the time. We all. All the same amount of time in the day. All good points. The next one was just like, keep your independence. You know, couples, happy couples keep their independence. Like, live Apart, Living apart, but together. You know, just don't give up your life. Keep your life going and then just be thoughtful. Thoughtful gestures.

Yeah, I think that's a really important one, is just. Yeah. That thoughtfulness.

Your partner. Yeah, it's true.

Being kind.

Yes. Cindy Darnell, this is awesome. Will you help me answer some emails?

I'd love to.

Okay, so if you have a question you want me to answer on the show, that's awesome. You can now text me your question, which is so easy. Text 797-979. Ask Emily to 797-979. I know it should have been 69, but apparently we couldn't get 69. We got 79. That'd be so obvious. But yeah, you guys, you just text Ask Emily one word and then you get, you get the form back and it just, you fill it out just like you would on our website. Super easy. You can also submit a question@sexwithemily.com, click on the Ask Em Ask Emily tab and also include the information that we need. Your gender, your age, where you live, and how you listen to the show. Okay. Hi, Emily. I've been listening to your show for years and love that you bring science and psychology into your answers. Not simply a know it all attitude. It's pretty refreshing. I was with my partner for almost three years and we did a fair amount of experimenting to discover our kinks. He continues to be my best friend and is a person I trust most in this world. We have different plans for the future, so there will come a time where I'll start dating someone new and he's totally cut off. In the meantime, we still get together to play with others. I'm at the point where I can engage in lusty meetups with him, feel totally comfortable with my skin, ask for what I want, and be happy to walk away with a couple orgasms or more if I'm lucky. I'm afraid that if I keep engaging in these trysts, I'll end up not going after my potential long term partner as I would temporarily be giving up the lifestyle. I still very much enjoy romantic vanilla sex, but I need to unleash the beast sometimes. I'm just getting started on rigging and don't want to give it up before I've seen where it can take me. Do you have any ideas for how I could possibly find a balance while being ready to receive Mr. Right for me? Thanks in advance. Emily, 33, Massachusetts. Yeah, I'm sitting here like, she doesn't need to. I feel like, Emily, you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself here to like choose where you want to go and what kind of sex you want.

It sounds like that thing I was saying before about the being normal in contrast with being content. Like if maybe her. Mr. Right is going to be a guy who's up for all these things.

Sounds like it should be. If this is the track that you're absolutely don't want to say shoulds but. Right. I feel like it doesn't.

She sounds like she knows what she.

Likes, which I love.

And yet there's that. That thing of, you know, I can't have this full time because I have to, I have to get a long term partner. So that's the, the distinction between I have to be normal in contrast with what makes me happy.

Right, right. Because they don't, we don't.

And I wonder why those need to be separate for her. If she were here. That's what I'd say.

Right. You'd say why? Exactly. You'd say why does that need to be separate? That you. Yeah. Like you need to cut off all this sexual enjoyment that you're having fulfillment right now to find Mr. Wright having a great time. Yeah. I don't understand. Emily. This is, this is such a perfect example. You're right. Of this restriction. You know, I feel like you could find someone that you want doing what you want. What you want right now.

This is perfect. Would be a guy who'd be up.

For that kind of stuff because then you're just going to want this stuff. But I think there's a lot of people who think they have to stop to have the kid and have the family when that's not even really what they want. Because we don't see a lot of great examples of alternative relationships working. Alternative.

Yeah. Or even women who choose to not have children.

Right.

Being celebrated in our cultures and society to celebrate that.

How can we do that? How you guys doing Australia with that here? I feel like I'm just.

We're not doing so well with it.

Right.

We still struggle with that.

It's not easy. I'm just like my body never spoke to me in that. I never said you should have just it was never a goal. Like this is my baby, my friend, you know, taking care of friends, family, like the show. But it's fine. Like we're not doing anything wrong. I know. That's another show. Okay. So Emily, you're fine. I feel like I love that you're thinking through all this stuff and it's great that you Emailed because I feel like first of all you're so ahead of the game Emily that you. She needs 33. All these things that you love and you're finding them and you're asking for what you want. I think it's now time to think about really stop and picture like. Like what do you want out of a relationship? How do you picture it going down and like really be true to yourself and find that partner doesn't have to be vanilla. Hi Emily. I'm a 32 year old guy from Aberdeen, Scotland. My girlfriend is 26. We've been together for six years and I know I want to marry her when we have sex. It's fantastic. Honestly, I feel that deep connection every time. Recently we haven't had sex as much due to life, work stress, just being busy. I'm writing because I just did something I feel terrible about. I'm actually on a bus home to the house that I share with my girlfriend. I'm distraught to be honest. I've just paid for sex with a stranger who I found advertising services online and for whatever reason I found myself going through with it. I felt a little horny this morning so I put on some porn and began masturbating. The porn wasn't doing it for me. Out of curiosity, I clicked one of the Meet Locals ads. I found myself signing up, contacting a girl. Then I only thought about masturbation and did masturbate because I was still turned on by this whole experience. However, after a quick shower I still felt turned on. The next thing I knew I messaged the girl was in a taxi at her flat, then in her bed. I knew what I was doing was wrong, but this haze just came over me and I felt like I was just following my penis's orders. Lame. I know. The sex was just terrible. As if that even matters. Emily, I have tears in my eyes as I write this. I feel completely overwhelmed with guilt. I know telling her would destroy her and I want to avoid hurting her at all costs. I've never cheated before. I feel so awful for doing so. I don't want to lose who I consider to be the girl of my dreams. I should mention I suffer from manic depression and I'm bipolar and I have self destructive tendencies which until now I've been dealing with. Could my mental health be a factor in this shitty thing I've done? How can I get past this? Thanks for your time. Charlie. 32, Scotland.

Hmm.

I know my heart went out to him. And then I saw the part about his. You Know, mental. He's had some challenges. I think he's got to get his mental health in order.

Absolutely.

For sure.

So sometimes what can happen is when we engage in sexual activities that later on we think, oh gosh, I shouldn't have done that. It can sometimes be like sex can sometimes be the, the symptom. What can actually be sitting underneath it is some unaddressed mental health things, anxiety disorders and things like that. So having somebody that you can work through your mental health issues with, your anxiety issues with, can be really helpful in order to manage what is going to be the impetus for you to go and sort of engage in out of control sexual behavior that makes you feel shitty about yourself, that it's not the sex that's making you necessarily do these things. It's unmanaged, untreated, untreated emotional situations, anxiety situations, which with an open minded, helpful therapist can be, I don't want to say easy to manage, but certainly can be managed.

Right. Yeah, I think that that's got to be. You said that you've been handling it for a while and now you're not. So I think that, yeah, I think the first thing, go, go, go see a great therapist that you connect with and, and, and check in this. But I don't think that you need to tell your girlfriend. No, I would say that do not tell her girlfriend. And I just like after one time cheating, I mean, what's your thing?

It can really, it can be, you know, a relief for the guilt. Sometimes it can be a bit of a pressure valve to be able to, to say that sort of thing. But sometimes it can actually cause more damage than it's worth in a relationship that's otherwise really, really great.

Right.

Depends also on the kind of relationship. Depends if she's open, like if she would hear something like that, how she would respond. I don't know her. He knows her better. And, and his guilt feeling about it. He's recognizing that, yeah, he was feeling horny, but that really was probably not the motivator because, you know, we all feel horny and managed to masturbate themselves under control. It was like, yeah, so horniness is not an excuse for doing stuff that, that sits in contrast with your values. So that's where I think looking therapeutically is going to be much more helpful.

Absolutely. I would say do not pass, go right to therapy. And thank you, Charlie, for sharing this with me. My heart goes out to you. I picture him like crying on the bus. So just get some help there. Hi, Emily. I just started Listening to your podcast. Way late to the game. My wife and I have been married for seven years and have two beautiful children. However, I think we would both agree that our sex life is not ideal. I'm the type that would have sex three times a day, every day where she's happy. If it's once a month, I think she's open to trying new things such as toys etc. However, I don't think she wants to invest in a couple's toy due to the cost. Do you have any recommendations for a lower cost toy that we can use together or any other suggestions to help spark up our bedroom time? Thanks so much. I enjoy listening to your podcast. Adam, 32, Southern California so this is what we're talking about. This is not a problem. This is your life. This is what happens in relationships.

Yeah, it really is.

So, you know, it's not wrong that you don't want sex at the same time. And it could also be, I think, let's see, Sig, the way he's talking about it with her too, I'm wondering like, you know, I just wonder sometimes how when couples have these problems and they wanted to start addressing like we're not having sex and they can't say.

He wants it three times a day and she wants it once a week.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I guess the question that he could ask is what kind of sex does she enjoy? And you know, for him, that three times a week thing. Sorry, three times a day thing is, you know, if it's that important to him to just have that release, then he can manage that by himself. That he doesn't necessarily need to include her in that, especially if she doesn't want to be there. That again, if he wanted to engage her in sex a bit more, checking out what it is that actually she enjoys about sex and offering her more of that.

Right.

Rather than thinking about, you know, I want this, I want this. Think about, you know, just to flip the narrative around a bit and go, what are you offering? Offering her? How could you coax her into your world a little bit more? If frequency is that important to you, find out what she likes and offer her that.

See, that changes. That's amazing point. Because I think that in relationships, guys are. And women, we're often trying to figure out what can we get, what are we not getting? Why are my needs met? But it's just like giving back. Just like what the entire universe is about. Having gratitude and giving back to your partner. Finding out what she likes would come back to, you know, and And. And serve you both.

That can be a really helpful thing to flip it and go, what am I offering? Rather than what can I get?

If they were in your office, Cindy Darnell, and they were like. She was like, I don't know what I like. I just. Once I just like when he's on top. What do you mean? Like, what do you do? How do you work with couples? Like, let's say she doesn't know. Yeah.

Well, it's actually really common for a lot of women to not know what they like, which is, again, what happens when, you know, we don't have adequate sex education, that a lot of women don't get to do that inquiry about what do I like, what turns me on, what do I need? And I really encourage them to slow things down and practice touching different parts of themselves or getting their partner to touch different parts for extended periods of time. One of the things that we need to do is not rush, but what can happen when we slow things down is it gives more room for anxiety to manifest. And that can really throw people off course because it's like, quick, quick, quick, get it done, get it done. I just want you to stick it in and get it over with, because then I can go about my business and do whatever it is I have to do for the rest of the day. And so what happens then with the slowing down thing is, voom. Anxiety goes up. And so we have to find ways of being able to sit with that discomfort and not give ourselves over to it and have it ruin the erotic connection that sometimes that can actually be the inspiration. Keeping ourselves focused, focused, keeping our mind on the job. And it goes right back to, why am I doing this in the first place?

Right.

So if any uncomfortable emotions come up that are like, quick, quick, quick, I just want this over with because I don't want to slow down and I.

Don'T want to bend your breath. Right.

You know?

Yeah. No.

And so if you do just want to have fast, dirty sex, that's fine. Look, you know, I'm all for all kinds of sex, but recognize that if fast dirty sex is not doing it for you and you want something different, recognize that slowing down is going to be the. The key to finding out what it is that you like. And in that slowing down process, you might experience emotional shifts that you have not encountered before. And that is okay.

Right. God, I love it. I think so much sex is about slowing down. Just getting it over with is just that thought of, like, just rip your clothes off, you're not turned on yet. I mean, we talk about all the time. Go five times slower than you think you should. Everyone. Cindy, that was great advice. Slow down. And I'm actually. We're not going to talk about sex toys. I think that we got some good advice here is to slow down, reconnect with her, find out if she wants sex toys.

Yeah. Because if she's not interested in sex toys or she's, you know, depending on what kind of sex toys, maybe she wants you to go down on her. Maybe she wants to hang out with you in the shower. Maybe she wants to, you know, just spend a whole night massaging together all these kinds of things. We don't know what she wants.

Right.

So diverting to a sex toy is kind of like, you know, diverting the elephant in the room. There's something going on. It's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think, you know, he needs to activate his curiosity.

I love it.

And get curious about it rather than, you know, buying toys necessarily.

And you guys know how I feel about toys. I'm not going to give you a toy right now. Not going to give you suggestions. Okay. Hey, Emily, I've been listening to your podcast for the last four months, and it really helped me change my perspective on sex. I've done my spring cleaning releasing old baggage. We had a spring cleaning around here to release all their issues. Sometimes it takes two months. Invest in more lube and encourage others to listen to your advice. So here's the thing. I've referred back to some of your old podcasts and understand what you're saying about orgasms, but I'm having a hard time with my orgasm. I'm beginning to believe it doesn't exist. I've had a few sexual partners and tried masturbating, but I still can't reach the big O. Am I just not in the right mood? Could I possibly not have a sex drive at all? I've tried reaching an orgasm for the last three years with no results. Practice makes perfect. So how long did it take you or other members of your team to find your orgasm? Thank you for your advice in advance. Sincerely, Karina, 23, in Phoenix, Arizona. Karina, I get it, honey. It takes some time. It does. And I'm not going to give you a number. I'm not going to give you how many weeks, but it is going to take an effort. And so. And when you say you've tried over the last few years, like a few times, you sit down and try to.

Masturbate, and what has she tried right Exactly.

So do you get women who come to you and they're like, lots, lots and lots.

So it's really, really common.

I love that you're here.

And the first thing is again, because we can get really caught up in the result being the certain way. And I understand for her that she's been trying for years, but sometimes it can take an hour, two hours, depending on what's going on. For a full arousal she's never ever had.

Oh, right.

Yeah, for a full arousal to happen. So if she is, you know. Because sometimes I'll say to women who struggle with orgasms, you know, when you're masturbating, how long do you masturbate for? And they might say like 10 or 15 minutes. And then they'll stop. And I say, why do you stop? And they're like, I'm bored, my mind is wandering. I'm. You know, they get frustrated, they get angry with themselves and it's just like, oh, this isn't going to work. I'm. I give up. So that could be happening. And it might be the difference between, you know, spending that 15 minutes and spending 45 minutes. And again, that, that the focus on curiosity has to be there. That if it's very goal oriented, if it's, you know, I need for it to happen and I need for it to look a certain way and it's not happening, it could be because our minds can wander, our minds can start telling us all kinds of unhelpful stuff about, oh, you're doing it wrong, this is stupid, you know, you're stupid. Those sorts of things that are. That our chattering mind can say to us that take us away from what we're supposed to be doing, which is feeling the pleasure and staying focused and staying present. A lot of us, especially women, have a really hard time staying present during any kind of sex, especially masturbation, because they're worrying about how long it's going to take. Are they doing it right? When is it going to happen? Maybe my pussy is not normal. All this kind of stuff that actually makes the whole problem worse.

Exactly. I was gonna say those are all good points because I think that they think it's gonna happen after 10 minutes. It's just gonna. Yeah, touching yourself doesn't feel that good. When she might be just going right. Like, I'm not sure. It sounds like you've been listening to the show for a while, Karina, but just going right for your clitoris and starting like, that's not gonna do it. It's like setting the mood. And I've talked about this a lot on the show. I mean, I love hearing your perspective as well, Sydney. Cause, I mean, it's just the. The process, taking the time and thinking about could be reading erotica. Like, you might need to feed her mind.

Absolutely. And noticing at different stages in her menstrual cycle so often, you know, that time when we're in ovulation can be a time where the orgasm is going to be much more robust and stronger if they are going to be present. That could be a helpful thing for her to find out when she's ovulating. If she's taking any kind of hormonally based contraceptive.

That could be interfering antidepressants. I was going to say that too. If you're on any medication, Karina, that could also be it. But I just think it's that, you know, I. I had a friend in college. She went away. She had an internship and for like a month in Colorado. And she was like working some school or something. Not in. She wasn't doing this in the school. This part of the story. She said, you know, every night she would come home and she's like, I've never had an orgasm and I'm gonna. We were like, senior. I was about to be seniors. And she said, I'm just gonna try. And so for. She was there for like a month. And she said every night for like an hour she stayed in a room and she just kept trying to find it with her fingers. She's like, it didn't happen and she just made herself do it. And finally it was the third week of the month that she'd been trying and she finally. But that was a lot. I think it was an hour or two nights she was doing it and she didn't stop. And it's that kind of drive, but don't put. If you could do that drive and that intensity and that passion for finding your orgasm without all the negative self talk and without all the limits on when it should happen. It might take you like months. But the thing is, it can be a very enjoyable process if you're just like curious about how does it feel when I, you know, it's not just going for your putting your fingers inside you, but how does it feel when you, like, rub your fingers lately over your own body, over your nipples, over your, you know, even like the inside of your elbow, your arms. You know, using lube is important. I mean, just start to just get curious and feel the sensations, like getting a massage, you know, and not have that goal. But I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna give you a number here, Karina. We're not gonna tell you how long, but I feel like you do have the determination and you do have the passion, Karina. So I think you just need to go easy on yourself and give it a little bit more time.

Don't beat yourself up.

Don't beat yourself up. I think we all beat ourselves up. I'm not beating myself up now because you've been here, and I'm really happy having you here.

I'm really happy that I'm here because.

I'll be like, why'd she leave? And I'll be sad.

I'll come back another time.

Promise. This was awesome. This was a. This was so wonderful having you here. I so appreciate your time. And you're doing amazing work. And people can come. They can come see you. Tell us about in New York.

Yeah. So 16. June 16th to June 18th. So two and a half day couples workshop called Sacred Sexuality. And you can get information about that on the Omega Institute website or on my website, cindydarnell.com and then your video.

Series, the atlas of erotic anatomy and Arousal. I can't watch the videos, you guys, because you have. Have to subscribe. You have to.

Which will be worth it because if.

There is brilliant, you buy. Get it on the website. And I know they are because I've heard about them, but the freaking names. We were dying. Okay. Where. Okay. The penis mightier than the sword. Vulva palooza. Hi. Why do we have those T shirts? Squirts and gushes. There she blows. Like, do you just sit around.

Right and then. But B U t T. That's not all. I love it. And I'm sure they're amazing videos. Great, educational, informative, and like you are. And then also, what else do I want to tell people about you? Oh, on your website. You see? And you can also see people through Skype. Yeah. Correct.

Yep.

So I see clients don't have to go to Australia.

No, you do not.

Which is amazing because I'm sure you're. You're.

And the time difference between the US and Australia actually works out quite well. So it's not too much of a pain in the neck to organize it.

Okay, so they can find you at Cindy Durr now. C Y N D I. Yeah, like lopa D A R N E L L. Exactly. I love it. It's on the website. Thank you for being here and thank you everybody for being here and listening to the show and for supporting the show. I just love you all. Thanks for listening. Was it good for you? Email me feedbacksexwithemily.com Foreign.

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