Hotline Calls: Mutual Masturbation, Oral Sex, and your Toxic Ex

Remember, you might not be getting the sex that you're craving, and it might just be a simple conversation. The more we talk about sex, the more likely we're going to get our needs met. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily Morse, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around On today's show, I'm answering all your recent calls from the Sex with Emily hotline. Topics include how do you let your partner know that you need some reciprocation on the oral sex, what you should do if you can't get over the sex you had with your toxic ex and you know it was toxic, how to explore your bisexuality without any drama, and the best ways to avoid negative thought patterns while dating and how to explore mutual masturbation with a partner. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. Subscribe wherever you're listening. That really helps us. It just helps get the show out to more people and help everyone, people just like you. And you can find me on all social media, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Threads, X. It's all @sexwithemily. Be sure to check out my new article, How to Sex Detox, on our website, sexwithemily.com. All right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

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My first caller is Victoria, 24, in Los Angeles. Hi, Victoria.

Hi.

Tell me how I can help you today.

I've been dating my partner for roughly like 4 months and A few weeks ago, I was kind of like, hey, man, like, I would really kind of enjoy it if you, if we like had the conversation of like you going down on me. And he was just not very receptive to it at all. He was like, I don't, I don't usually do that. I just like, I'm bad at it. So like, why would we do something that I'm bad at? And I'm like, well, okay. And then I kind of left it at that. But like, And now it's been a few weeks and I'm kind of like, the longer time passes, the more peeved I am. And I'm kind of like, well, you do other stuff that you're like bad at too. Why is this an issue? So I was just wondering if you had any like tips or anything on how to bring that back up, how to like make him feel like he's not bad at it or something.

I don't know.

Well, good for you, Victoria, for speaking up and asking for what you want. And you're 24 years old, right?

Yes.

And how old is he? 23. 23, okay. So the truth is this is very common that it is, someone, people in their 20s might not have a lot of, he might be bad at it because he's never done it. And so that's why, you know, it doesn't feel that safe for him. He's like, I don't know what that is. I don't know how to do it. So maybe you could say, I get that you think you're not good at it, but every woman's different. And you might, you know, I'd love to have you try out and I can show you what I like. Would you be interested in that? I'm not expecting you to be perfect. We're all learning. 'Cause that's all it is. He doesn't want to feel like, oh God, I don't want it. What do I do with this vulva? Like, what do I do with this area? Like, I have no idea what to do because no woman probably asked for it. I find that a lot of women don't, aren't comfortable with it. They don't know how to ask for it. And then guys don't know. And then they grow up and they still don't know. So the more women that could think, you're going to be helping, you're going to be helping so many women by doing this, Victoria. Like, it's going to be like, either you're going to set him up for success in the future, you're going to get pleasure and he's going to realize that he can't just go through life saying, no, I'm just going to opt out of oral because the majority of women, that's how we're going to have orgasms.

Right, exactly. So is there any, like, is there anything I could maybe like introduce? Like, I don't, I've never used like flavored lubes or anything, but would that in theory help out?

Yes, absolutely. But this is the Joe Gelato. It's, we have hazelnut espresso mint lube. You could say, look at this thing I got. But I just want to remind you that flavored lube is great for oral sex because then we don't, you know, I think we all worry worries about it, how we taste, how we smell. But just know that if we're clean and we take a shower and we don't have any STIs, like, you're fine down there. So I don't want it to be like— I, I don't want this to— I don't want us to worry that they're like, we need to have flavored lube. But sometimes it just sort of like, it literally does taste like mint chocolate, so it makes it really, really fun. Um, so I think that it's just a fun thing and say, I got this lube, I think it's gonna taste great. Like, I literally eat it out of the bottle, that's how good it is. So that's one thing. And the other thing is, I'm curious now, do you go down on him?

Yeah.

Okay. So yeah, this to me is like so many women, like again, women before you, we've all gone down on men and not gotten anything returned. But I think saying to him, and it has to be in a loving way, like in an accepting way, because again, we are not comfortable. I won't even say again, because the majority of us aren't comfortable with people talking to us about sex because we don't have practice. We don't have people asking. We don't have people asking our opinions. And then we think when they bring up sex, sex that we are criticizing them. So the more you can be like, I love our relationship, but the sex we're having is great. I know I brought up oral that one time, and I know you think you're not great at it, but what if I showed you what I like? Hey, and I've got some lube, you know, and you just make it fun and playful. Yeah. And then if you feel like no, he's like, no, no, then you're like, no, I'm not going down on you. That's what I would—

I don't— I didn't feel like he was doing it because he didn't want to or like Great. I just like— he's got defensive because I guess whatever egos or ego.

But you can help him right now and just be like, I got it, I got it. You don't know how, but let me show you. Let me walk you through it. I'm still learning my body as well. Let's do it together. Fun.

It's relatively new relationship, so I don't want it to just tank because of this. Like, you know, like, right, this is just a minor—

it doesn't have to—

bump in the road.

It is. No, it is, Victoria. It's minor because you're right. You're absolutely right. He didn't say to you I don't like it because I've had that experience too with guys who are like, it's just not my thing. And then I'm like, okay, well, you're not my thing. But if he just says, I'm not good at it— I literally did that— you, you can now, um, just show them, well, let me teach you, let's become better. And by the way, is there any way you want me to do your blowjobs differently? Like, just open it up. Yeah, it'll be fun, you're going to learn a lot and have more pleasure.

Yeah, all right. Oh, that is good. Yes, great.

Good. Okay. Well, let me know how it goes.

I will.

Thank you for calling. I appreciate you. This is fun.

Thank you so much, Emily Morse.

Okay. And we're sending you lube. We're going to get your address.

We're going to reach out.

Okay.

Bye.

Have a good day. Bye, Victoria. I really love this question from Victoria because remember, you might not be getting the sex that you're craving and it might just be a simple conversation. The other thing— and no, okay, let me back up. I like this conversation. And like we know, communication is a lubrication. The more we talk about sex, the more likely we're going to get our needs met. That's number one. But the second thing I got from this was I love that her partner was brave enough to say, I'm not good at it. But I also think there's a— this might be a lookout for you. If you have a partner who's not doing something or not performing oral or not engaging in any activity that you might have asked for, whether it's initiating sex or spanking you or being more rough in the bedroom, it's because they might not know how. But they might not articulate that. They might not say, I don't know how, because that feels shameful, right? So much of this is shame. We don't want to feel bad. We don't want to feel inferior. We don't want to be insecure. So by opening up and saying, well, let me show you, that's okay. I don't expect you to know, but why don't we learn together? Then it just becomes both of you working on your sex life together, not just one person trying to figure out, but you're both in it and you're both invested. And I think it's a beautiful way to let your sex life evolve and grow. Let's talk to Kevin, 37, in Ontario, Canada. Hi, Kevin.

Hi. I'm assuming that you've read the email. I did.

I have it right here. But if you want to tell me in your own words what's going on, that'd be helpful.

Yeah, sure. So both relationships kind of— they started off the same, they've ended the same, but they were two unique relationships. So the first woman I had, I had known her for many years through like mutual friends, and then I had moved to the same city that she lives in, in Ottawa. And so I was like, let's go grab a drink. And then like a month later, we had the drink and then slept together for consistently for the next 6 months.

Okay.

So she was telling me because she just got out of this like 10-year engagement that she doesn't want a relationship. So I believe her. So then she volunteers information. She's like, I really like you. Like, there's not a thing about you that I don't like. So I'm like, okay. Needless to say, like, so that ended. She never really gave me any closure or any answer or anything like that. So then fast forward to last year, I met this girl through Tinder and it was the exact same thing. She wasn't engaged or anything, but she was coming out of a long-term relationship. It was going to be like a physical relationship only. Again, she volunteers to tell me that she has legitimate feelings for it. It's not like I'm putting them on the spot or anything like that. Like, they open up to me. And when I try to sort of take things to the next level, she backs away. And now she just deleted me off Instagram. Like, we don't even speak together anymore. And then this last girl, she came over and like, I made her dinner and like, we had lobster and like, I showed her how to like crack it all open with your hands. It was a lot of fun and we slept together. She ended up sleeping over. And then I messaged her like later the next day and she didn't respond for like 2 days. And she's like, I'm sorry, I just didn't see a spark. And I'm just like, okay, so now I feel like I'm like a placeholder until somebody better comes along for these women.

Hmm. Okay. The common denominator is you, but I don't think it's a problem like you think. Maybe those women are all similar and there were signs there that you could have looked at to know before you go down that road. How about your demons, Kevin? Because we all have them. Have you done any work on yourself?

Yeah, so once this with Erica all ended, never had closure. So then I started doing therapy for the first time.

Great.

And, uh, like, it was incredible.

That's great.

And my therapist, like, she certainly touched on it, on something. She said Like, it clearly goes back to my relationship with my parents and something that I do now. And I, like, I seek approval and validation through my partner.

Okay.

Because I would always be asking, like, even like when we weren't physically together, like hanging out and we were off doing our own things and we were just sort of texting, I would still like to hear that validation that, yes, you're still satisfying me and things are better.

Of course.

I want— I mean, a lot of us want that. We want the words.

Yeah. So like that's sort of— I don't know if a demon is the right word, but it's something that like I am trying to not focus as much on is like I need validation through myself, not—

Right.

We got to love ourselves. It comes from inside. Everyone else's validation, but we still can need it and give it to ourselves. Well, it sounds like you have a good therapist who sets you on track. And so I guess what I would say to you is, do you know— are you looking for a serious relationship right now? Are you looking for long term? Do you want to have kids? Do you want to get married? Do you know what you want?

I do, yeah. So I'm— I'll be 38 this year.

Okay.

I'm like one of the last of my group of friends to A, still be single, and B, not have children. So like there's a bit of pressure on that. Both of these relationships, I know that they started out as just casual.

That's the thing, they started casual. So that's what I'm going to say to you is that I would start to be more discerning about who you spend your time with, right? And the women that you're picking. Because if they both started like, oh, I don't know if I want anything, and let's be casual— sometimes those work out. But if you think about life as being like time, and you know, you're going to be 38 and maybe dating women who are ready to have kids, you just want to clear that right away. Like, I would spend time— not even— I think you're at the point in your life where you can even talk to someone over Zoom or over FaceTime before you go out with them, just say, this is what I'm looking for. I think that paradigm is shifting. There's more of an intentional dating that people spend a lot of time thinking about out what they really, really want.

Yeah.

And so dating people who aren't available, who don't want the same things, even though it might be fun and thrilling because you— maybe it will happen, maybe it won't— we don't have a lot of time to fuck around, I think. Like, I just think at this point in our lives, we don't know what's gonna happen. And then you'll be able to weed out people who just aren't available and don't want it. And I think there's a certain fear, like, oh, if I say it, I'm going to scare her away. Or women think, I'm going to scare him away. But I think, fine, Like, they're doing you a favor, but you get really clear on what you want. And I think that, that people are doing— you're going to find someone who meets you where you're at and who's also a relationship. So that, I would say that it's more about the women and that dynamic that started it than any default of character in you.

Okay, so like the— I just need to, because I'm still human and I still enjoy sex, like I think I need to maybe put that on the back burner.

Yeah, you mean the sleeping around? And because it's available, you could sleep with anyone probably. But yeah, I think that you— listen, I've been in that same position before where I'm like, okay, well, I can go out and have sex any night of the week. And I have at points, I've been sleeping with a few people at once. But when I decided at a point in my life that I wanted a relationship, even though I could be with this guy on Monday or this person on Thursday, I thought time is limited. And the time I'm going to spend opening up my body, my heart to somebody is time that I'm not spending looking for that person that's gonna be long-term, right? And so if you think about it like that, is time is like our greatest commodity that you just don't, yeah. So yes, you could go out and have sex. If you think you can do it in a way that's not gonna get you maybe involved with things wrong, sure, every once in a while, but maybe no, you just say like, I'm on project Kevin finds a woman right now. Like this is what I'm on. Like it's a goal for work. It's like your project. You're gonna go on the apps, you're gonna tell everyone know that you're single. You're gonna talk to them beforehand on FaceTime. The norm now. And just kind of say like, so what are you looking for? I mean, not the thing you have to be like, hello, this is Kevin and this is what I want. But just sooner than later, just find out. If they're like, no, I don't want anything right now. I'm just casual then. Or I just got out of a relationship. Not your person. Right? And then you just move through them a lot quicker.

Right.

I think rather than thinking that it's going to hurt you, it'll help you.

For sure. It was hard with Erica because like I known her for so long, and I'd been right infatuated with her forever. And then, like, when it finally happened, it was better than I could ever imagine, right? And it just— everything just got off on such a good start. And I'm just like, how is this, like, going so well? And even at the start, like, I was per— like, I knew that she was still seeing other men, and I was still seeing other women, and I didn't— right, it was never an issue until she again volunteered to tell me that she had legit feelings for me.

I know, but let's— okay, so Kevin, can I just— do you mind if I cut you off for a minute? Because I, I know that she said she has feelings for you, and that's the part that you're caught on. You're like, but she started it. I was obsessed with her for years. We were together. It was great. How dare she? She got me to open up, and then she left. And then I think you might be turning it against yourself, saying, well, this therefore means that something's wrong with me and I'm faulty. We're never going to know why she left or what happened or who she found, but the sooner that you can kind of like learn from that story— she wasn't available, who knows if she's with this guy or not with this guy, it doesn't really— or like how long that'll last or if she's even really ready. But I wanted to take the— the more you spend time on rehashing that one, which I think you do a lot, it's also going to hold you back from finding someone that, that you deserve, that deserves to be with a sensitive, handsome, smart, evolved man like you.

Right, thank you.

So maybe she said it Maybe she did. Yeah, she said that, baby, you know, she probably did have feelings until she was ready to move on to something else. I don't know how old she is. I don't know what she really wants, you know. So it doesn't matter though. And it's never about us. Like, all the reasons that we think, oh, they left because I was late, they left because I was too short, they left because they didn't like the way I gave a blowjob, whatever we think about, it's net— first off, it's never what we think. And we'll never really know what it is. And if you did find out, you'd be shocked. You'd be like, that was it. So I'm just telling you, the time that you're spending on that, Erica, I want you to put all of your energy— like, when we hang up, like, what do you want? What is the list? Tell your friends you're looking. Look on the apps and just be more discerning, because you seem like you, you know how to find someone. It's just finding the ones that are at least getting you off on the same foot, right?

Yeah.

Okay, okay, cool. Is that helpful?

Yes, definitely. Like, it's, uh, so you and my therapist are like the only two people that really don't know us personally, so it's good to get a different perspective on it.

Yeah, okay, good. Yeah, take some notes after, remember what I said, and try to leave the past in the past and be present with what's to come.

We'll do. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Kevin. Thank you, I appreciate you. Thanks for calling in. Have a great night. Bye-bye. Hey guys, listen, maybe— did any of you see yourself in Kevin? You know, do you ever find yourself rehashing the past and your ex and what happened and why they did it? And we're like detectives, right? Trying to figure out this puzzle that we're never ever going to find out. You're never going to get the answer. So if you find yourself stuck in the past right now analyzing, and when we analyze, we're often beating ourselves up thinking, what did I do wrong? I think that that could be a great reset for everybody right now who's still caught up on the ex and not moving forward. Take a list, write down what are you looking for, what's your direction in a relationship right now. And then all the ambiguity, whether it's in— you're dating somebody, it's ambiguous, or you have these thoughts about the past, try to kind of move those out of your consciousness and be present with what your future is going to hold. And it's just important to get really clear on what you want and be present with that If you find yourself kind of obsessively ruminating about the past, it's easier said than done, but just kind of try to redirect your thinking to, what do I want now? I'll never know about the past. The past is past. You can make up a story. You know, I remember Helen Fisher was on our show and she said, I would just make up stories like this person got shipped off to another country for work. You can create your own endings to end a relationship from the past so you can really focus on the future because there is love and sex and your person waiting for you. Promise. All right, we're gonna take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. We love our sponsors, but don't go anywhere because when we come back, a couple called in, which by the way, you should totally call in, who have different fantasies that they're just starting to explore. So here's a couple. They're married. Hi. How are you guys doing? Yeah, let's talk. Tell me what's going on.

So I guess our question is, so I listened to one of your other podcasts and also I had kind of been wanting to do it before, but we had tried mutual masturbation and she just kind of wasn't really into it. And I would like us to be able to do it and have fun with it because I know that it can be really fun and maybe we could, you know, do edging and stuff, and then it'd be really fun.

Yeah, so just you guys, you thought it would be good to mutually masturbate together, and, and then you did it and it just wasn't— it wasn't your jam?

Yeah, I think it's just because I'd rather just have sex, but I'm really— I'm open to trying again if you have different suggestions on how to make it a little bit more exciting rather than just to each other on a bed.

Absolutely. I mean, well, first off, do you, uh, do you masturbate on your own? Do you enjoy masturbation?

I do. I just, I just haven't in a long time.

So, right, right, because we're so— we're sometimes we're just so— you're home, you're having sex, you're with your partner. Well, walk me through what happened the first time, because I know you tried it. So what happened? It was just you guys got toys and you were lying down? Yeah, and it just—

how it went, and then it didn't go very long, and then She just said, let's just, let's just have sex.

And how's your— do you have orgasms? Do you have a lot of pleasure?

I do, yeah.

You do? Okay. During penetration?

Um, sometimes, yes. Mostly on, like, with my clit and with toys, and then him doing stuff to me.

So, okay. So I guess the reason why mutual masturbation can be hot is, well, first, it's something different. You know that you're both going to get off, and it can be sort of hot to watch your partner please themselves while they're watching you, and you're sort of learning from each other. So you were just kind of bored. You just thought, this isn't that interesting. So maybe you could switch up locations. You could try it in the— maybe in the shower. Maybe one of you just is masturbating and you're just watching, and then you switch turns. Like, maybe you're masturbating and he's watching. Like, what was your feeling when it was happening? You were just like— were you guys looking in each other's eyes?

I was looking at her, and she either had her eyes closed or was looking straight Yeah. I was laying next to her.

Okay.

And then we had a magic wand and, uh, the Satisfyer or whatever. Like we had a bunch of toys, you know, if she had said, oh, this would feel good. Like it's right there and we could institute it.

Okay.

I just haven't been on my own because he, you know, he's always here. So if I'm in the mood, I will just grab him instead of doing it on my own.

Right.

And then I think it was, yeah, I was just kind of like, we're just here right next to each other. Nothing's really like happening. And I definitely, I wasn't watching him. So maybe that would be something that I could try to do and we could take turns. But, but yeah, us just simultaneously masturbating, it just kind of felt like, why aren't we just, why aren't we just having sex?

Right, right. I guess. Well, what was your intention around it? What did you think it would bring to the, what was your hope?

I mean, I just thought it would be a really hot experience because I was hoping that we could edging with it so that I'm watching her get really close and then stop, and she's watching me get really close and then stop, and then we're going back and forth, and then we're doing a different toy and stuff like that.

Right.

You know, climax. Wow, it's been a 30, 40 minute climb, and then now we're here. But it just—

that's a practice. Is that interesting? Yeah. So we're talking about edging, which is the practice of delaying orgasm. So you get close to having orgasm and then you bring yourself back down. Like, if you think 10 is orgasm and 1 is like you're sleeping, you get to like an 8 And then you bring it back down to a 6 or 7, then you go back up to 8 or maybe back down to 5. So it's a practice. And then once you edge, edge each other, edge together, then when you actually do have an orgasm, it can be a lot more intense. And it's a great buildup because, you know, when you anticipate something and you delay, it can be really hot. So is that something that sounds interesting to you? Did you know that's what you guys were planning on doing?

Yeah, he explained that that's what he wanted to try. I think, um, it's probably more exciting for him than it is for me because Penetration orgasms are rarer for me, so I think that, you know, that happens to me when we do have sex already. Okay, so maybe that's why it's—

but you don't always have orgasms through penetration, right? So how do you have an orgasm every time you're together, if you do?

Um, usually with oral sex.

You do foreplay pretty much every time, and, and that is— she's definitely—

that's the sure thing—

getting it there. And then, yeah, I don't know, maybe 20 Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the thing I also love about masturbation is maybe it is that if you think I learned most about myself through masturbation, through like learning, I discovered things like I thought I could only orgasm one way and then I could have internal orgasms. I could have multiple orgasms. So if you think of it like a practice that like, yeah, maybe the first time it was just awkward. Like think about it. Anytime you try something new, a new sport, You go skiing for the first time, you go hiking, you cook, it's all new. And I think our intentions as humans, like, this isn't comfortable, this isn't known, I don't know this, it's hard. But if you think, well, maybe your intention is connection, maybe learning something about yourself, even like maybe you could just kind of breathe. Because then maybe you were— you said you were staring up or not looking at him because it was like a new weird thing. Probably you're like, this is my husband, but why are we doing this? So maybe now you could go into it like, okay, I'm going to suspend all my beliefs about what it could be, should be. I'm just going to try to sit with this moment and breathe and try it again, maybe. And just see if you could get yourself going and using some new toys and just really breathing and seeing what else might feel good to you. Now, when you're masturbating, he could also like use his hands on your breasts, or you could still, you could be making out. Like there's no real rules to it. It's just that you could, and you could like start masturbating, then you're making out, or maybe he gives you a massage for 10 minutes and then you give her a massage and then you masturbate. Maybe you do have intercourse for a second and go back to the masturbation, or, you know, it does, it doesn't have to be so linear. Does that sound interesting to you? Maybe just like learning how to have more predictable or regular orgasms.

Sure.

Yeah.

Cool.

I mean, that sounds good. I mean, it doesn't seem like there's any downside to actually doing it. And then if you are comfortable with it and, you know, do it long enough, it's very enjoyable.

So yeah. Is there anything that you've been kind of wanting sexually or wanting to try or any sex bucket lists, goals?

Yeah, maybe more orgasms with penetration.

Yeah, well, I think a great way to learn that is through masturbation and maybe getting like— because what I found is that it helps to have a clitoral orgasm first and to be really aroused, and that's when the penetrative orgasms happen more often. More vulva owners, it's when we're already turned on. And the reason why it doesn't work— well, there's a lot of reasons why it won't work for many, but it's about the warm-up and the build-up. So maybe you guys try mutual masturbation, but maybe it's it's a masturbation set, like where she has her first orgasm. If you're really aroused and you already have an orgasm, you might be able to have one during penetration. Like, have you found that the times that you have orgasmed during penetration, you were already turned on, or he went down on you for a while?

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's how it happens. So maybe playing with some of those formulas.

Okay, cool.

Okay, thanks for calling in.

Thank you.

That's helpful. I love that you're doing it. Yeah, keep me posted. All right, have a great day. Thank you.

Bye.

So here's a couple, they're married, they're trying to keep it interesting and then spice it up. And the first time they tried it, she wasn't as into it. So what this tells me is that there's so many things that our partner might suggest sexually, and then we immediately do a no because it's outside of our comfort zone, because most people haven't made requests asks from us sexually to, to try new things in the bedroom. Most people just don't talk about it, or they keep doing the same thing. So I love that this was a great example of how couples can communicate about their sex lives and actually do the play-by-play about how something went down and how they might improve it. I got her goals, he wants— I got his goals, and now they're going to go back to the bedroom, back to the drawing board that is the bedroom, and figure out ways to have pleasure for both of them. But I hope that that's inspiring to some of you couples who are thinking, oh, we could just sit and talk about it. You can also sit and call into our hotline. My next caller is Denise. She's 51 in Denver, Colorado. Hi Denise. Oh, Emily, how can I help you?

Well, I was in a relationship with this guy several years ago. It was a pretty toxic relationship and I just can't seem to move on. I mean, I'm not necessarily wanting to be emotionally tied to him anymore, but it seems like I can't separate myself from him sexually, and it seems like I can't really go on to another relationship until I do that, and I just don't know why I am fixated on this relationship that was so toxic for me.

So tell me what happened, if you can, a little bit.

You were together for a while or Yeah, we were together about a year and a half and, um, he's kind of crazy, has a lot of emotional issues, very, um, emotionally abusive. Um, and still, like, even just a few minutes ago, he, he reaches out, I block him and he just worms his way around it and still trying to convince me that he's the guy for me and he's not. I know that. And, but yet, um, I can't seem to move past it. Uh, let me think. Oh, he, he's just a classic abusive guy, would threaten me not physically as much as, you know, he would get me to divulge things about my past in confidence and then throw them back in my face and send me pictures of other women and tell me that he was seeing other people and just the whole gamut. It was really wrong.

Wow, that's so toxic, gaslighting and manipulative and maybe a narcissist.

All of the above.

Oh, that sounds really awful. I mean, you know that it's toxic.

Yeah.

And so, and how did it— so it finally ended and he just keeps finding his way in, huh? Have you seen him?

Um, I have seen him a couple times, you know, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and see him and then it's just immediately back to his old tricks. And so I know that it will never change.

Yes. So it sounds like you know all of the right things. So let's tell me—

I do, I know it.

I know you know it. So that's why you're calling in. You're calling in because you're like, how can, how can you break me free from the toxic cycle of my ex, which is common. You know what we talk about, because you know what, they also kind of mess with your head. They mess with our intuition and we think, can I really make good decisions about myself? Do I really know? Maybe he was great. Maybe because he was very destabilizing, right? He was making you not trust yourself. So there's still some aftershocks from that. So that might be part of it. And for that, I'd recommend, have you had your own work around it? Have you gone to therapy at all and talked to anybody?

Yeah, I did a lot of therapy about it and was— actually had distanced myself from him for a long time, for over a year. And, you know, I don't know, I felt sorry for him and let him back in and, you know, promises me that he's changed. And of course he hasn't. No, he's not changed.

And it takes years to change if someone's really going to change. And also you get used to the drama, and the drama we think is passion. But then once you start to relearn, you're like, no, no, no, drama is not something that's going to be attractive to me. And it can be hard to let go of the idea of them because because you build them up and we tend to, I always say it's like this euphoric recall that we only remember the good, even though he was toxic, you still remember, but maybe it was really good for this moment. And we have this, like, again, it's, we recall, we put them on a pedestal, but I think separating like what you believe they are from the person they are. And have you ever written a list of all the things that he did? Have you ever looked at it?

Oh my gosh, that would be an enormous list. I haven't actually done that.

Okay. I just think it's really helpful sometimes because when you do that and you write it down, And I had a friend do this once. I was like, write down everything. 'Cause she kept going back to him, he was really toxic. And she just put it in the notes in her phone. And then I was like, and then one time she read it, I'm like, what do you miss? Do you miss that he missed your birthday 2 years in a row and didn't get you a present? That he cheated on you? Like, which part do you miss? She's like, oh, you're right. Like sometimes when you just see it all in one place, you're like, do I really miss that? And so, so I think it's just a matter of journal. I mean, I'm telling you, we did a great episode too about breakups a few months ago, but it was about like, it was like breakup recovery because it's really about journaling and getting specific about what you actually miss. Actually want right now? Like, do you know what you're looking for? And are you out there? Like, is the problem that you're trying to date, but when you do, you just can't really find anyone else?

It's not even that. It's just that I, like, won't even open myself up to anybody else. So I don't even really try. I think I'm really hurt from it still. And then I think that, you know, the few times that I have tried to date people, I just don't feel any physical connection to them. And I don't know how to get past that piece of it.

Okay, well, here's my question for you. Have you been physically connected to yourself?

Yes, yes, yes.

Masturbating, and you feel sexy, and you feel good about your body?

Yep, I do all, all the Emily M's.

Got it, got it. Okay, just checking. And so I think that just telling people you're single— say yes to parties that you wouldn't normally go to, because sometimes at least for me, how I've met people is at parties or events where it's not really a fix-up. I'm just meeting people. And so there's not that much pressure to sit on a date. Maybe that's a lot for you right now because the voice in your head's like, am I attracted? Am I not? But if you just go about your life right now and do things that you love and maybe put yourself outside your comfort zone, doing things that you think you might love, whether it's like joining like a hiking group or cooking class, or just again, just saying yes to invites that you might not normally have done. You're going to open your world up again and start to meet people. Because I still think that's the best way to meet people, is through friends and through doing the things that you love doing. And then once you do connect with someone, I think you're going to find that you will be able to move past this guy, because you're going to know that you just— someone's going to treat you well. And it's, it's been so many years right now. So I think you said he just creeped back in. I would block him again. Sounds like you're still very attached to him, and that's the part of it that I want you to to just be strong with yourself. But again, like getting back out there and meeting people, it's going to make it a lot easier. So do you have any plans this week or next week? Can you—

Well, not, you know, not really. Part of the challenge is that I'm sober and it's really hard to date sober.

Yes.

4 and a half years in. And, you know, most guys don't want to date a woman who's sober. They just don't.

Congratulations on that, by the way. That is a journey. And I know that a lot of friends who've gotten sober and they've all found relationships and found love. But I know that there's a story in your head that's like guys don't wanna get— and this is how my friends who were alcoholic, they assume it's kind of a limiting belief because thinking that that's a deal breaker for men isn't. I have friends, men and women who are all in happy relationships right now with people who are sober and their partners are, you know, they're normies, they can have a drink or not. So they still exist is what I'm saying. So that's kind of just a limiting belief that guys don't wanna date women who are sober. I think a lot, especially guys who've dated women who are not sober, who've dated women who don't have their shit together and who aren't emotionally available and all the things, I think it can be really refreshing and you're 51 So maybe if you're 25, sure, maybe if guys are out partying, they might not be as interested in someone who's sober. But where you're at in your life right now, like a lot of men would welcome being with a woman who's done her work and knows who she is and knows what she wants. When you're older, no one's getting— I mean, if you're still with someone who their whole life is surrounded around alcohol and I can't be with somebody who doesn't drink, guess what? Not your person.

Right, right.

True. That's what I recommend for you. I think I'm hearing some, just some of those limiting, like I'm not gonna find someone and I'm never gonna get over my ex and I'll never be attracted to anyone. Again, but you are, are smart and articulate and you're beautiful. And I just, I think the only thing in your way right now is you, which is always the case, right? It's always, we're always our own worst enemies. We're always the one holding ourselves back. So what could you do when we hang up? Like, what could you do a little bit differently this week? Do you have anything that you're planning?

No, but I think you're right. Joining a hiking group or something like that would be good. I'm super active in the yoga community, which is predominantly women, however, but you know, I do get out and do things. So I just have to keep reminding myself that, you know, I don't need to be my only best friend. I can now talk and meet other people and do things.

You can. And I think now people are more open to like making more friends and we've realized who are our real friends, who aren't. And they're just, I think it's a great time to start again. And perhaps we can all do this right now is that everything that we believe about the past, let's just all let go of it. 'Cause we don't know what the world's gonna be like.

Well, I wanna say thank you for your podcast. Of course. I challenge myself to listen to it and open my heart, my mind to new opportunities and that includes with myself. Just listening and learning. So thank you.

Oh, you're so welcome. And thank you for being vulnerable and for being real and for sharing your story, because I think it's going to help a lot of people as well.

Okay, well, thank you so much, Emily Morse.

Of course. Let me know how it goes.

Bye-bye.

We all have limiting beliefs. What are you telling yourself right now? No one's going to date me because I gained too much weight. No one's going to date me because I don't make enough money. There's no one out there for me because blah blah. I mean, think about it and then say, oh, is that true? I'll bet it's not true. You're the only one who thinks that that is true. And that is the reality. And then when you start to clear out those misconceptions that you have about yourself and your situation, you're going to be opening yourself up to the possibility of meeting somebody who's crazy about you and wants exactly what you do. I feel good about this for all of us right now. My next caller is Brian, who's in his 30s and wanted us to disguise his voice.

Hi.

Well, first, huge fan of your show and you. I love what you do. I see the benefits in so many ways, so thank you for all that you contribute.

Thank you. Thank you.

Um, so it was difficult at 23, uh, so back in, I guess, 2013. I was doing television, and this is a small community. I think there are about 90,000 residents, or did, uh, prior to the hurricanes. I decided I've been kind of hiding myself for so long. I'm wanting to explore my sexuality. And so I thought that I could do so privately. So I started with Craigslist, meeting people online for hookups. And because I asked a few people for dates and they just said, you know, you're too well known, you're too known, you don't, you know, I don't want to bring that into my life. And so literally, I knew the people, even if I met met them— this sounds horrible— but met them in the dark, it was either my voice that gave it away, like people know my voice.

Wow. Okay.

Or they, in some way or another, knew it was me. And so I thought I was doing a private hookup, you know, and they would go and tell other people. And then what made it worse was, you know, I'm well endowed, so people would go and tell their friends, oh, I just met, you know, him, and, you know, he's the guy, and he's, you know, blah, blah, blah. And so it put me in a really tight situation as far as being able to be myself even when I'm not working. Um, but over the years it's kind of gotten to be unbearable in that you meet people on apps like Grindr, but when you meet these guys, some of them stay on their apps, hey, I want to be just friends, I'm looking for just friends, or I'm looking for just a hookup. So I'm a very cordial type, I try to be outgoing, and so I'll say, hey, how's your day Why? And they won't respond. And so I don't put my face on their profile picture anymore because it usually comes with more problems. But then I'll say, uh, you know, send my picture within the message and they won't respond. But then if I send a nude pic, then they respond. Um, but then some of them, you end up sending, uh, a nude to start to kind of get the conversation going, and they're like, oh, I can't believe you started with nudes. So it's hit or miss, right? Um, so at this point, because there's no consistency here, and in the South a lot of guys are still closeted or are very private. I've gone through— and I hate those words— but I've been with a lot of guys, but it's very difficult to find consistency here, no matter how great, you know, the experience may have been for, for both of us. And so now it's kind of got to the point where so many people are just flaky, or I've had guys say, you know, okay, what's your address? You know, we talked for a while, and they're like, I'm on my way. And so they never show up, you know, like, to be those And it's dangerous because, you know, I just gave out my address.

Yeah, I would— yeah.

But I was hoping that maybe these are some things that, you know, people to talk about.

Yeah.

Encouraging the queer community to, you know, approach it a little differently. Like, to me, if you're just on just to get off, if you will, then why are we putting so much emphasis on little details? I've had the greatest experience, the greatest conversations. I'm good at making people feel comfortable. And yet it still doesn't translate into consistency or even a future experience. Um, and I've had people who will message me 3 months later, 6 months later, and that seems to be their routine. But it's gotten to the point where we're fitting the stereotype, you know. It's like everyone wants multiple partners and multiple experiences, and then once they don't get fulfilled, it seems like they come back to me. But yet I still endure the whole Um, you know, if I text them or reach out, they won't respond. If they reach out to me and I'm not available, then they get offended and they block me. And it's just been really, really a struggle. So I just kind of wanted your input, but hopefully this could start a bigger conversation on your end. Um, and I live in a smaller community.

Okay, that's big too. That's big that you're in a small community. I mean, you just can't make stuff happen that aren't available right now. Like, it's just— it's true. Like, are you looking just for men? Because I know when In your, in your message, you said you were bisexual.

Yeah.

So I personally don't believe in doing, uh, being with both sexes at the same time. So for me, I know that if I meet a woman— and I've had this happen 3 times with close friends— they're ready for me to commit. They're ready for the family. They see what I bring to the table. So I didn't want to do both. So right now I was trying to, you know, see what guys would be like. I finally dated my first, like, official guy in an official relationship. In, in November, and we lasted 4 months. And for the most part, it was good, but he had been in a toxic relationship for 7 years and abusive, so it was a difficult, you know, transition for him. And then I tried another guy out for about a month and a half, and we did well, but then he has a new work schedule, literally, you know, with him taking care of his mom who has some health issues. I, I didn't get to see him for weeks, so I decided, you know, best for us to part Well, let me first say that I'm—

it sounds really— I think it's been hard, but it sounds like in your particular situation you just haven't had— you haven't met a lot of great people. So I'm sorry, that sounds really frustrating. And like, what's wrong with humanity right now, right? Can't people be a little kinder? And can't they be a little bit more open and realize that we all really are craving connection and intimacy? So there's something that I think is emerging, that a lot of people are sort of implementing an intentional dating mindset, that they're going to date with intention, knowing that what exactly they're looking for. Like, are you looking for a few hookups right now in rotation? Would you like a long-term relationship?

I want it long-term. And if I can, if I can say this, I met a guy once, it was intended to be a hookup. I really liked him. I think I may have scared him off because he was struggling with some things. And we recently started talking again. And he said, well, you know, maybe you shouldn't, you know, approach it up front and tell them what you want. Maybe you should, you know, just let things kind of go naturally. And I said, but that's the problem. I said, when I do, I either find that they end up talking to someone else and end up in a relationship, so they end up ghosting, or they end up friend-zoning thinking I just want to be friends. So I do state my intentions up front, and I even invite, you know, after we're done, I'm like, hey man, you know, I really enjoyed it. They're like, oh, that was the best I've ever had, you know, that Right. I said, please hit me up again, you know, if you'd like to hang out or whatever. And it's almost like this embarrassment, you know. And I said, you know, we live in a small community, so maybe that plays a big role. But a lot of these guys are out, so I, I'm just confused by that. It's almost like we're still embarrassed to be, you know, interested in each other.

Yeah, I mean, you are in a totally different community. If you were in Los Angeles right now, we would have no problem fixing you up here, right? I mean, that is the truth. You are fantastic, you know. You're You're very articulate, and you— I can tell that you have a really good heart, and you're handsome, and all the things. But being in the South, and we're not going to kid that every, every state in America is different, every town is different, and where you're at, it probably is a lot more challenging to be openly gay or bi. And I know the struggle, like, I know that struggle is real. I have listeners all over the world, all over the country. And so I I think what might be useful then is really finding, like, what about a community there? Is there a community of people who are gay, bisexual, like friends? Because I feel like if the apps aren't working for you now, it's always helpful to, you know, how I've mostly found most of my dates is, or people I like or friends fix me up. I let them know, I said, do you know anybody? And even if they don't know right away, maybe next week or next month, they go, I've got this great guy for you. Because I don't, I'm like you, like I'm also a little recognizable now if I'm on an app. Right? Locally, oh, Sex with Emily, let's see what that's about. I'll bet she's good in bed, you know what I'm saying? So finding a community of like-minded friends might help you. Going to parties, going to barbecues. And so the apps, maybe where you're at on Grindr, it's just, it, that is the vibe. And I don't think you should stop stating your intention. I think if you scare people off, they're doing you a favor because it's showing that they can't handle it and they're not interested. And so if you wanted just to get laid, I would lead with the nude pics. But otherwise I wouldn't. I would lead with a FaceTime date. I mean, that's what everyone's doing. They are vetting people on first before you go out and meet them. And I know you're going to get what you want. And I'm really glad you're bringing up this conversation because I think a lot of people struggle with it, the flaky apps. But so the one thing is that it's a numbers game, right? Like you got to just keep swiping, keep going, you'll find someone. But then I would also really put an effort in to cultivating your community. Because if you're not planning on moving, that might be a great resource for you to tap into.

And I appreciate that.

Just expecting that people are good and you will find your person, like expecting and being really clear with your intentions. Like, I know that you have a story that you're set— you're saying, well, I've tried it and this happens and that happens. Maybe it happened a few times, but it doesn't mean that you can't keep trying because it's also a practice being really, really clear about our intentions and what we want and stating it. It. So I'm looking for a long-term relationship. These are my values. These are my morals. This is what, you know, I'm about. And not spending any time on the people who ghost or the people who are— I love when people show you who they are right away. You know, you believe them and you move on. It's not about you. Okay. Is that helpful?

Yes, thank you very much.

Thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening and for calling in. I know this is going to help so many people. Best of luck to you.

Okay.

Okay, take care of yourself. You got this. Bye.

Bye-bye.

I'm so glad he called in, you know, and he mentioned our demographic. And I just want you all to know that we have people of all genders and all sexual orientations calling in and we welcome everybody. We have to remember that we get to decide what kind of relationships we want and what kind of people we're looking for and what kind of behavior we will and will not tolerate. And what he brought up for me, and I want to hammer this home to you, is that check in on your beliefs around dating. Or, you know, whenever I hear, we'll say, all the men in my town are terrible, or all the women don't want to commit, or I keep getting ghosted. Maybe you got ghosted a few times and maybe you've had some bad experiences, but please check those thoughts and do not let them define you or your future sexual experiences. Because once you start having these beliefs and then you create stories around them, it's going to be a lot harder to get out there and date. So when you get clear in your intentions and you write out, I want a relationship, I want the person to make me feel a certain way when we're together, these are the kind of things I'd like to do on the weekends, this is, you know, my goals, or what I— what's important to me, morals, values, all those things, and you write it all down, it's going to be a lot easier to move through people and just to realize who might be your person and who isn't. So get intentional and check your limiting beliefs because there is somebody for everybody and you will find that person. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily, and be sure to like, subscribe, and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, or X, and Facebook. It's all @sexwithemily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email, so sign up on sexwithemily.com. And while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. And if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, life, dating, or relationships, call my hotline, 559-TALK-SEX. That's 559-825-5739, or just go to sexwithemily.com/askemily. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithemily.com.