Hotline Calls: Should You Make Up or Break Up?

A lot of times we stay in relationships because we care so much about the person, but really the most honorable and lovely thing we can do is to leave with respect and honor. I think that that's being honest about where you're at and leaving somebody. Because staying is not worthwhile either if your heart's not in anymore. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sexual it's the question everyone has asked themselves at least once. Should I break up with my partner? Listen, Relationship success depends on so many factors. Communication, emotional intimacy, and of course, sexual connection. Figuring out which problems are worth solving and which ones are directing you to, you know, end the relationship can be confusing, exhausting, and really painful. So on today's show, I take your questions live. I love talking to all of you to figure out if you should make up or break up. Is bad sex worth leaving someone over? What about an age gap that puts both of you in much different life stages? Or how do you know if an affair has the potential to turn into something real? Are they really going to leave their partner for you? We learned so much from other people's relationships. No matter where you are on your own. This will teach us all how to make better choices going forward. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the show. It just helps get the show out to more people and it only takes a few seconds. You can do it right now. You can also find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok X, Facebook, all at Sex with Emily. And check out my new article trending 2024 pleasure gifts for lovers and friends on sex with emily.com before we dive into the episode, if you haven't heard the news, I have to tell you about my brand new membership community, Smart sx. It is officially live and I've had a blast the last few weeks because this membership is everything I've ever dreamed of and more. We're talking exclusive content, interactive workshops with top minds in sexual health, there's polls, and much more, all made for the membership community. But honestly, my favorite part is the community. It's a safe space where like minded people support each other, they're sharing experiences, they're breaking down all the taboos around sex and intimacy. It's truly empowering. So if you're ready to really bring more pleasure into your sex life and take the steps, Smart SX is for you. So join the pleasure revolution today. Just head over to sex with emily.com click on the membership tab or head straight to sex with emily.com smart SX all right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

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Thanks, Christine, for calling in. Tell me everything. Tell me what's going on.

Okay, so I'm 42. I've been married for about 11 years. I am married to a much older individual. Things have just sort of changed. He's older. I'm sort of in the prime of my life now. Things are winding down. He's sort of retiring and he doesn't seem to want to grasp the idea that I'm not really very happy with him anymore. He has separate interests. He sort of leads a very separate life. I do my thing. You know, we love each other very much, but it's more of like a friendship kind of thing.

So tell me about the history of your relationship. You said you've been together for 11 years?

We've been married for 11, together for 15.

Okay, yeah, that's, that's a long time. But how much older is he than you you're 42, and he's about, what, like, 20 years older than you? Ish.

He's 25 years older than me.

Okay, so he's like, you know, late 60s and you're in your early 30s. So. Yeah, that is a really big difference. And I'm curious about your relationship. Have you guys ever discussed this before? This is something that might have come up early on. Like, what's going to happen?

Well, yeah, I mean, there's been, like, a lot of financial upheaval. He lost multiple jobs. I sort of supported us. You know, I was younger then, so I wasn't making as much money, but now I'm sort of making a lot, lot more money. It's just the dynamic, you know, I sort of married because I loved him and I wanted some stability. I'd been from a relationship to relationship, and, you know, I was always sort of supporting the other person, and now I find myself sort of in that role again throughout this relationship. And, you know, he's a great person, but not been a very reciprocal kind of relationship, so to speak, financially.

Especially when you do bring this up to him and you want to talk about your relationship and how things could change, how or what you need. How does he respond?

It's almost like he acts like it's all new news, and then he just is in denial about it. Almost like, you know, I'm a good husband. I've supported you. I've been the victim of circumstance. It usually goes that way. And then he acts like we never had the conversation. Like, the next day we go back to, like. It's almost like he gets caught in that vicious cycle of, you know, you want to leave, but you feel bad leaving. And then there's like, guilt, you know, and you have a great sense of, I'm responsible for this person, so to speak. When you're in a marriage, things are not on the same page sexually. When someone gets older like that, they want different things. You want different things when you're a little younger.

Yeah, you've really grown apart in many ways. And a lot of times couples, like, they can grow. I think it's important for couples to grow, but they both have to be growing and changing and learning and doing all that work introspectively. And it sounds like maybe he's not going in the same direction that you are. Like, he's not really even willing to talk about it. Have you tried therapy yet?

We just started therapy. Yeah. I don't know that that's going to help very much because you sort of get. I feel like you get to a point where you're like, you know what? I just sort of need to take action. But I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or handling this correctly. And that's sort of why I messaged you guys.

I'm so glad you did. Yeah, I mean, I think you're doing all the right things. So this is what I recommend, is that when people are in long term relationships, there's going to be problems, there's going to be issues. But when it gets to this point where you're like, now, it's really built up. There's a lot of resentments, there's a lot of things that have gone unsaid and you are ready to take action. It has to be therapy because there's really no way for couples to be able to kind of solve the problems that they've been having for a long time. And the conversations you've been having a long time, it's really hard. You got to get different perspective. So therapy's the way to go. And I love that you're doing that. But I also am hearing in your voice that perhaps you feel like it's maybe too late. I'm not sure. Like, let's say you do go to therapy and you start going now and there starts to be a change. What would you need right now? What would you need to see to feel safe in this relationship and to feel like it's one that you could continue to participate in?

I just sort of want to be with someone my own age that's sort of on the same page and is at the same stage in life that I'm at, which is awful. I feel terrible because, you know, when you're younger and you get married and you get a relationship with an older person, it's. I know this sounds stupid, but you almost don't think about later, like 20 years down the road or 15 years down the road. You're just in the moment. So it's so short sighted. But you would have to be a different person. I feel like.

So what you're saying is like, unless he could somehow magically become 20 years younger, there's really no way that this could work. So it sounds like it's one of these relationships where you love him, you have mutual respect, and there has to be a way to respectfully, lovingly uncouple. So maybe I would use the therapy as a way to have these really healthy conversations in a way that he's able to understand, because I Mean, how do you think he's going to respond to this? Do you think he sees this coming? Like 10, he sees you getting divorced. One, he's like, hell no. Like, where is he at?

Yeah, I think he sees it. But I also feel guilty because this person's older. Like, what are their options? Dating options if he wants to be with someone again? Like, I just have, like, so much guilt attached to making a choice about it that I want to make sure he's taken care of, but I just don't want to be the person that is really shallow sounding. I think he knows a lot of.

Times we stay in relationships because we care so much about the person, but really the most honorable and loving thing we can do is to leave with respect and honor. I think that that's being honest about where you're at and leaving somebody, because staying is not worthwhile either if your heart's not in anymore. So it's like, well, it's really painful. You also have to live your life and take care of yourself. And I would just say this is not something you can rush after almost 15 years of being together, but to do it with, you know, this therapist could actually probably help you use the language so he could hear it to make sure that you're both taken care of. And does he have family or friends or people around him?

Yeah.

Okay. I mean, honestly, maybe they thought this, like, you know, when you hear someone 25 years older, you're like, what's going to happen, you know, when you guys are older?

But that's the other thing. You don't realize what people like the judgment of that. And it's so funny because people think, oh, she's a younger woman marrying an older man. There must be like, she's a gold digger. And it's like, that's not at all how our situation has been. It's just this automatic judgment. And like, how's that ever going to work?

Yeah, exactly. Those are judgments. But luckily, people's opinions of us are not our responsibilities at all. Right. But yeah, you're definitely gonna have judgment. So it sounds like you're doing all the right things. And I can just hear it in your voice, Christine. You're like, you're kind of done. You love them, you've mutual respect, but you've really come to a different place in your life, and you need a different kind of partner, a different kind of communication, and a different level of energy. And so I would say that I would treat the therapist appointment right now like it is, you know, the Most important thing in your life. I would try to go once a week. I'm hearing what you're saying and it sounds like there's just not going to be any room for him to change right now where you're at. And I think maybe you could even have an appointment with a therapist on your own because I just think communication is so important in these cases and being a really great communicator and allowing him to like maybe repeat back to you what he's hearing to make sure that you're on, on the same page.

Thank you. You're amazing.

Thank you. Christine, thank you so much for calling and best of luck to you. Okay, I'm here, so let us know how it goes. Thank you so much. I think that's really interesting, you guys. I often get questions about this, like the age difference. What is age? Is age matters? Age only a number? You know, how much can you tell about a relationship when you know there's 20, 25 years apart? It's a huge age gap. And studies have shown that a 10 year age gap or fewer years is actually the most successful for couples. And that if it's 10 years or more, we tend to see relationships not working. And I know, I can hear you. There's all these stories of couples who work. We've 30 year age difference, we've been together forever. I know, I know. But those are exceptions mostly. I think this is exactly what Christine was saying, is that we go through different stages of light your life to be in your early 40s and to be in your late 60s. You want things. There's different energy, literally energy that you have to move through life and to do things. The pace in which you're moving, the goals that you have, the life you want to live. And so it can be really hard to, to keep up with anybody at that age or to find similarities with somebody who's there's that much of a gap. But here's the other thing I want to say is that relationships should never be married. On longevity, I think that oftentimes we say, oh, well, I grew together for 10 years, so it's a failure. Or I feel so bad that I got a divorce after 20 years. I think that relationships are a success if you put some time in with someone and you did your very best to make it work and you both tried and you learned what you could and you loved when you loved and then you left when it was time. That's what I think about age. I'd love to hear more from you guys. So maybe you are in a relationship right now where there is a significant age gap. I'd love to hear how you make that work. Or maybe you had a similar scenario to Christine where you're like, I got to a point and it just wasn't working. I'd love to hear from all of you. Thanks so much for calling in, Julie. Tell me how I can help you. What's going on?

So I'm 33 years old. I've been in a relationship for about three years now. Honestly. It's a good relationship. We have good communication, we have fun time, easygoing, we don't argue a lot. But our relationship started very focused on sex, I would say. And we had really great sex for a long time. We discovered a lot of new stuff together. It was very fun. But I kind of knew from the beginning that I didn't feel like we had that much in common other than sex. And recently my sex drive has been much lower. So now that that's kind of taking a backseat, it kind of brings back the fact that I wonder if we have enough in common type of thing. And on top of that, we are in an open relationship and there is another guy that I started seeing and I'm kind of falling for that guy and I know that he is falling for me. So, you know, he's telling me a lot of stuff.

Sounds complicated. Julie, tell me, please, how long have you been with your boyfriend? The first guy?

About three years. But I also kind of want to say that it's. For me, I think it's kind of a pattern. Like I've been in a lot of two or three years relationships. You know, it's kind of my, my pattern. As I get in relationships, I'm all excited for like two, for years. And after two years, because I'm like.

I totally understand that pattern. That is a common pattern, Julie. In fact, I was there, I was pretty much the same way in my 20s and 30s, because there's a lot of ways you could say your current guy, you're like, oh, it's all about sex. And this next bright, shiny object of a man, he's going to be the one, he's going to make me feel good. But really it all comes back to like, you know what you want right now. Like, what do you actually want, Julie? And it's okay if you might think, well, I actually just kind of want to play around right now, or maybe I don't want to be in a long term relationship ever. All that's okay. But when I ask you like, what does a day to day relationship look like for you? What do you actually want? What would you say to that?

I don't know. It's like I kind of changed my mind all the time about it. Sometimes I want a really committed relationship, you know, Sometimes I think I want, like, kids and a family, and sometimes I think I don't feel I'm kind of all over the place.

Yeah, no, I understand that too. And you're 33 years old, right? So you're still figuring a lot of it out right now. The good news is that we do a lot of great work in relationships in relation to another person, but we also do great work on ourselves and on our own when we're not in a relationship. So I would say right now that it's probably like you have a few choices here. Like, you could just say, you know what, I'm just going to focus on the relationship that I'm in right now with your primary partner and like, decide, like, is it just the sex? Do we have other things in common? Can we have some deeper languages about our values and what we want going forward in a relationship? You could do that or you could end that relationship and go with the new person. But I have a feeling that this is going to continue to repeat. So another option might be to decide that you're not interested in dating right now and that you're going to take some time to kind of work on yourself. My next option, I'm giving you a few options. You can kind of create your own. Here is to be really honest, like deeply honest with both of these guys and say, I'm not actually sure what I want right now. And here are some challenges, like with your boyfriend, you could say, I'm not sure that we are that compatible. And here's some things that I want. I want to hear what you need in a relationship. I feel like those are a few different ways you could go. I always go for being honest and open and doing work while you're in it right now. First off, how would you feel about ending the relationship with your primary partner right now? If I said, yep, just end it.

Like, are you.

Are you ready to walk away?

No. No, I don't think so. I mean, you know, otherwise I wouldn't be calling.

Right? Okay. Three years is a significant time to be together and open. Tell me how the open part of your relationship happened and whose idea it was and how that came to be. Has it always been open?

No, it's not always been open. And it's for both of us, it's our first time being in an open relationship. It started with, like, I was saying, like, at the beginning of a relationship is very focused on sex, and we both wanted to, like, have fun and try new things. And so it was more of his idea to say, hey, why don't we try to just, like, play with another couple? To start with? We did that kind of thing, but, like, always us together with other people. And then from there, it kind of evolved into, okay, we can also see other people separately.

How does that play out, though, with him seeing other people and you're seeing other people? Has that been something that you guys have been able to negotiate?

We've been having good, open communication about it. It's worked out, except, I mean, I guess except for the, okay, so this.

Is the other thing. So let's get to the other guy right now. Like, here's the other thing. So the guy you're falling in love with, are you feeling like I'm in love with this other guy. And so therefore, I want to end my hope open relationship and just be with this guy because he might be someone I want to be with instead of this guy. Like, what's the. What do you think right now? How would this look?

This other guy is not. He doesn't want to be in an open. Like, he wants to be the only.

One, which is really, really common. Right. Because he probably isn't used to it, but he's like, I want to. So how. You know, he might thinking, like, God, I want to lock you down. Like, I want you just to be mine. It could be really hard to know that there's somebody else, like, competing for your attention and your love. So that could kind of be a classic response to say, no, no, I don't want you to be with anyone else. How long have you known this other guy?

It's been about a year. Year that we've really seen each other on a regular basis.

Okay. And so it's just sort of starting to escalate lately.

Yeah.

And then. So what you're saying is that you wouldn't feel like if I said to you, okay, well, then you should just go with this guy. Your heart's telling you to go with him.

You're.

You're feeling all these things for him. Maybe you should just leave your other partner. That doesn't sound like something you wanted to do either. I can't tell. No.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I think I also know it's kind of what you're saying right about the next Shiny thing is, like, I know it may sound like the best thing right now, but like, I'm not sure if it really is the best thing for it, a longer term thing. And like, I can already see some red flags in him too.

Okay, you can already see the red flags. Good for you. Because they're there. They are there. My mom always says the issues you have in the third date, you have forever. Like, they are there. Like we know it. So, Julie, what I'm hearing right now is that you're somebody that I. I feel like it might be good for you just to kind of try to figure out what you actually want. Like, what have you learned from being in these relationships? What actually is going to work for you right now? Because I don't think it's an either or. Like, I don't think it. You're ready to leave this current relationship to go with this other guy. And maybe it's just he needs to kind of. You need to let him know that too then and just say, I'm not really ready to make that decision right now just because he's might be pressuring you into it. I think you might have some regrets there as well. And so I recommend that you take some time really thinking about, like, what is it that you actually want? What have you learned? What feels good to you going forward? It sounds like if you have less of a sex drive with your primary partner, that's kind of okay because you are able to see other people. But now you've got in a situation where you think you're both falling for each other. And I'm just not sure that that's going to be more of the same because I do think this is just going to be a quick fix. You know, when we're falling for someone new, the newness, it like spikes. All the like, feel good hormones, like the dopamine and the adrenaline and the serotonin and all these like, it's like the most delicious feel good cocktail in the world when we are falling for someone else. And that's often when we shouldn't be making, you know, major decisions, although we often do. So I feel like that's kind of more what it is. And this is my everything. Like, I'm not hearing you say this guy. I know it. He's what I've been looking for. He's everything that, you know, I've ever wanted. I'm not hearing that either. I think it's the brain, bright shiny object. I would go back and I would kind of work on this Person that you've been with for three years and be honest with him, do you think that he would be open to kind of talking this through with you? Would you feel comfortable letting him know that you feelings for someone else?

Probably. Actually, yeah.

I think there might be some comfort in feeling like maybe this is Mike. Maybe you could go a little bit deeper with him and maybe.

Yeah, I was gonna say, I think I might be a little selfish on that point because I think I'm scared also that if I. If I tell him that he's gonna be like, okay, well, then I would rather you not seeing him anymore. Which probably be the right option. But I also don't want to stop seeing him.

No, of course. I get. I get that too. And I know I'm not asking you to do the easy thing right now, but if you're in a healthy, open relationships, they deal with jealousy and they have boundaries all the time. Right. They're saying, like, if feelings develop past a certain point, you have to let the other person know. So have you guys set up any boundaries or rules in your open relationship that have worked for you guys? And would this have been. This might be one of them. That if you develop emotions beyond what it feels comfortable, you have to let each other know. Is that something you guys ever agreed upon?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's the honest thing to do. That's what I recommend. I recommend you turn to him and you say, listen, this has gotten to a different place right now. And honestly, if he tells you not to see him, obviously it's a pretty free world. You could decide to do what you want to do. But maybe that's what you need right now to kind of make peace in the current relationship. And the other. If you decide that this one's not going to work, then you could go find this other guy. But I feel like it's going to be really messy for you to leave a relationship that you've been in to go with someone else. That just feels good right now, where you already see red flags waving in the distance.

Yeah.

So how does that land with you, Julie?

I agree. I think you're right.

Well, thanks for your call. I appreciate you. Keep me posted on what happens. I'm always here. All right, here's the thing about open relationships is that like. Like I just said to Julie that people in open relationships practice a rigorous honesty. They often have boundaries and rules and things that they continually, like, update and discuss. Maybe it's just once a week they have a conversation about, like, where Are we at. How are we doing in our relationship? How do you feel about me dating other people? You know, But I think a lot of people hear this and they're like, oh, yeah, I was going to be open. But that's the. Exactly. The biggest nightmare. The biggest nightmare is that you're going to be open, but you're going to find someone else that a shinier object that you like. You know, shinier person that you like even more. And that's always the risk. But again, couples who have this foundational health and aspect of their relationship where they talk about these things, like right away you think, I think I'm developing feelings for someone else. Then you can learn to work on that before it kind of gets to the point where you're thinking of leaving. The people I know that have done healthy relationships right tend to have very uncomfortable conversations, often about the things that we think. We can't even say the things that you. You're thinking. I could never have those conversations. They do. They may even come home from a date with somebody and say, wow, I had awesome sex last night, but I actually feel something for this person. I would say, again, if you are an open relationship or you're thinking about it, just practice having healthy communication right now where you're at. Be sure to set boundaries and rules and guidelines that you can both follow. And remember to check up on each other with this, like, early and often. When we come back, I'll be taking more of your calls live to figure out if you and your partner should make up or break up.

Hey, Monica, tell me what's going on.

I recently started dating this guy and we get along great in pretty much every aspect. Like, we're extremely compatible and have a lot in common, but there's not very good sexual chemistry there and to stay hard. And we haven't gotten to the point where we've talked about that kind of thing. And so I don't know if it's appropriate for me to address it or kind of see what's going on. You know, we've tried like two or three times now, but I'm like, that might be a deal breaker for me. And so I don't know, kind of I should set myself and how to address that situation.

Such a great question. Yeah. How would you know how to do this? We. No one knows how to do it. So I'm glad you called in. So let me just be clear. So you just started dating a guy recently and you're saying the few times you went to have sex, he Wasn't able to stay hard or didn't get hard.

He wasn't able to stay hard. It was only five to seven minute window including and stuff. And very heavy on like the fingering aspect. And not even. I had to like tell him to tone it down. I don't know if he's just inexperienced or what, but like he didn't even finish either, any of times.

Wow. Yeah. You know, here's the thing. Probably isn't experienced. You're 26 years old. I mean, only because people don't have enough years on the planet. Right. You haven't. He probably hasn't had that. It's because the experience comes from not just being with other people, but communicating about sex and talking about what you're into and what feels good. And so glad you're calling about this because it's never too late to learn. And I love that you're learning now because again, most people don't even know how to have these conversations. So now, besides the sex thing though, it sounds like this is someone that you really could like. Or is your question how do I just kind of tell him and move on? What would you like to do here? Because I can help you go either way.

I'm trying to figure out. I really was enjoying him for a while, you know, a couple of weeks. And then after that last time, I was kind of like, I don't know if I'm even interested now. And so I'm kind of in between feelings right now. But also like, I was taking the approach of like, all right, maybe I could give it one more shot, see if maybe it was like a nerves thing more so on how to like potentially address that conversation.

Okay. My recommendation, I have these three T's of communication, timing, tone and turf. The turf is outside the bedroom. So are you guys going to go out to drinks first or hang out or something before the sex? Because that's I would recommend. And then the tone is kind of light and curious. The timing is. Yeah. When you're just hanging out together, maybe you're going on a walk or you're in the car or whatever you're doing and you say to them, hey, I want to talk about, you know, what's been going on. I think it's been so much fun hanging out with you. And I actually want to try something that I've never done before. This isn't really comfortable, but I really thought we should talk about our sex life. Like, let's talk about what happens actually. And then what would you want to say to them, is it more about what you need to be pleased? You could say, I'm practicing on and like, letting people know. Or I want to let you know what feels good to me because I'm learning myself. And maybe I could show you how I like to be touched. And then when you're in the bedroom together, you can, like, move his hand towards you. You could say, I'm going to put my hand over yours. But sometimes when a finger goes inside of me, that doesn't feel as good. Actually, I'm learning too that the clitoris, you know, is where the magic happens. And when you go inside, it doesn't feel as good. Now, again, so common. Monica, I can't tell you. It's like they stick their fingers in like they're digging for change or something. Like they don't know, right? Like no one told them. They think finger goes inside and you penetrate. But for the majority of people with a vulva, just to stick a finger in is not going to feel good right away. So you are not alone. But since most guys aren't educated on this, he wouldn't know that. So you could start there and then you could also say, like. Like, tell me if there's anything that you'd be into. Like, I want to know. And then, you know, he probably. I'm just thinking here, he probably is embarrassed or feels weird about the fact that he can't say hard. Because when guys, you know, they want to be able to control their penis, every guy would rather have their penis be. Stay hard than not. I would think in like 99.9% of sexual scenarios, like, maybe 100%, guys are like, I want to be ready to go. And when they're not, it feels really bad and shameful. And maybe he doesn't know why, but see if that comes up as well. And you could say, what would you need to have the best experience with me? And even if it doesn't work out with him, Monica. And I know I might be saying things that you're like, oh, my God, I can't imagine. Try it out, because this is. These are the muscles, these are the communication muscles that I would love you to start to work on now, because this guy is. You've known him for a few weeks maybe, who knows, it could turn around and be this incredible relationship. Or you just, you know, it doesn't work out. But you know that you did what you could do to kind of try to have a healthy communication around sex and advocate for the sex that you deserve.

I think that's all great advice and definitely how I want to go about it. I was also just kind of curious from your knowledge. You know, I've been trying to do some of my research, but I know you're an expert on things. You know, maybe some of the reasons as to why he might be having that issue. If it's like he's 28, why he.

Can'T stay hard, it could be anxiety, it could be he could be out of medication, any kind of medical, pharmaceutical medication. It could be for anxiety or blood pressure. Maybe he was drinking. Maybe it could be that he was smoking weed or how healthy is he? Is he someone that eats healthy? Does he work out? Does he. There's like all these factors that contribute to, you know, it's usually this has to do with circulation too, like blood circulation. So it could be something that he's eating, drinking, doing that is not allowing him to stay hard. But don't think it's about you for a minute. But that's the reasons it could be. Did you notice any of those things? Did he seem to be. Was he drinking? Was he taking drugs? Was there anything going on? Do you know how he eats?

You know, we had a couple of drinks. It wasn't anything too crazy. I mean, we've been talking for like maybe a month. I don't really know what his eating habits are. Totally. I mean, he seems like a pretty healthy guy. No like, red flags there.

So, I mean, the thing is about ed, Erectile dysfunction, and I hate even that term for it, but when a guy can't stays hard, it's usually like psychological, emotional, physical, physiological, biological. There's a million things that go into it. So, yeah, we don't really know yet, but it's usually one of those factors. And I can tell you this, that it's just really frustrating. If he says, no, I'm fine, everything's great. You could say, well, I noticed that, like, that it seemed like you didn't stay hard or you didn't say hard. And I'm just wondering what that's about. Or if that's happened to you before. Is there something I could do? My help there. And he might be like, oh, I'm so glad you asked. I really just need you to put your hand around my balls and everything's great. Or I need you to, you know, who knows? But you're going to find out when you have these direct conversations. And again, I'm sure no one's ever talked to him about this before, but I know it's the right thing to do. And it's going to be great practice for both of you.

Okay. Yeah.

I just.

I know it's a sensitive. I want to make sure I approach it and don't make him feel like, you know, inadequate in any way. Because that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm, like, genuinely curious, like, how we can maybe overcome this and if we can't move on, you know?

Yeah. And I think it's really the right thing to do. I have to tell you that it's not comfortable, but I really like. My mission on the planet is to make the. These conversations more comfortable. So that if you are with somebody sexually, you just expect, like, that's the world I want to see. Where, of course we're talking about sex. Like, if you guys went out to a meal, right, Monica, and you guys were having dinner, you would talk about the. The entrees and you would talk about the appetizer. What should we get for dessert? Like, literally everything else that couples do together, they would discuss. But sex is like the secret. It's, like, shrouded in mystery. We shouldn't talk about it. But I believe that there's another world that we can all live in where, of course we talk about it because it's somebody you want to make their. His experience better. And you're probably gonna have to maybe say to him, I'm not trying to shame you here. I really. I want to do this in a loving way. And so when he's with you, he gets really shut down. But now by saying that to him, he's like, oh, my God, I feel so much better now. You know, we don't know, but I think the truth and vulnerable conversations set us free and definitely allow for more sexual pleasure in our life. I mean, this.

I know.

That's great. I really appreciate the advice. Thank you.

Of course. Yeah. I'm so glad you called in. And I know this is going to be helpful for so many other people here. So thank you for. For being brave too. For not only brave to calling in, but brave enough to have this conversation with someone that's going to just, like I said, change trajectory of your relationships going forward. I know it. It's a great skill and it takes practice.

So.

Yeah. Thank you, Monica. Have a great day. Thanks for calling. Bye.

Bye.

You guys. We have to have these uncomfortable sex conversations. They are not easy. They are not comfortable. We were not taught this. Nobody taught us how to talk about sex. In fact, we were taught how to not talk about sex. We were taught that it was supposed to be something that is private and it's supposed to be something for ourselves. Or maybe we're told that sex is going to magically be amazing and if you just talk about it, there's a problem. Well, if you've been listening and you have met me, you know that I believe that communication is a lubrication. And we have to to get comfortable talking about sex. It's going to change the trajectory of your life, your sex life and your actually entire relationships. The one that you're in or the next one you're going to be in. This is a muscle. And if you're not in a relationship, practice with a friend. Talk to your friend about the sex they had last night. Ask them specifically, like, hey, so what do you do to get off? Or what makes you feel good in the bedroom? I mean, that's how we learn, you guys. So let's just start having these conversations do with a trusted friend, somebody that you feel safe and close with. And then just start practice hearing yourself have these healthy conversations about sex. And then it'll become a lot easier and a lot more normal. And then you're going to help me with my mission to help prioritize and liberate the conversation around sex. Hi, Nikki, thanks so much for calling in. So tell me everything. Tell me what's going on.

So 20 months ago, I separated from husband who I was with for 18 years, married for 12, which, by the way, was like the best sex of my life. Those 18 years. We really loved each other. We knew each other's bodies. It was amazing. So we're going through this divorce and about two months after my separation, I, you know, was looking literally to just have sex. So I logged on to Ashley Madison. I figured it would be like a discreet way to find someone who was maybe in the situation. And I did. I started talking to someone and 20 months later, here we are, still seeing each other. Okay, Is also married. I'm still not divorced. Neither is he. And it's just a little tricky because he is still living with his wife, even though he claims that they have, like, separate lives, but they're together. For the stepson, it's not his son, it's her son, but he raised, loves them. And because I'm not fully divorced yet, you know, it's just. It has just worked. You know, we go away whenever he goes away for, you know, business trips and we see each other like almost every day. We have lunches and dinners and he's like my best Friend. The question is, is he really ever going to leave?

That's the question. Is the married guy gonna leave his wife? So you've had one partner, and now you met somebody, which, I get it. It feels safe to date someone married because you don't have to really go there. It's a. You know, it can just be, like, sexual. Get those needs met while you kind of figure out who you are right now without a man in your life. Like, you're at a different stage of life. You haven't had time without a partner. And so I get all of that. And so I'm wondering, yeah, like, is he gonna leave or is he not? What do you want right now? Are you looking to get into another relationship?

Well, I have, and he knows this. So we've had a few months here and there that I was like, listen, like, I want to see what's out there. And I've dated a lot in the last 20 months. Not just him, one of them being, like, a very successful executive director on Wall Street. And he was older than me. He was 50. He was so nice, so generous, but he was just not, like, all there. He was, like, scatterbrained. And he would just, like, disappear for, like, two, three weeks. And my best friend and I would like, Google people, like, Google him to see if he's still alive. And then he would be, like, out of the blue one day, he would be like, oh, sorry, I had to travel. I was in Switzerland, or I was here. I was there. That just has been my experience with, like, several people that I've dated. Like, this guy, even though he's married, he is just, like, very reliable. He checks on me every day. He texts me.

I could say that a lot of us would say we want that, rather than someone who's gonna ghost us and not be reliable. I totally get that. So what makes you think that he wouldn't be leaving his wife?

I mean, we've talked about this, and he's telling me that he just has, like, a lot of anxiety about change. I have four children. He's very hesitant about that, even though two of them are in college. They're adults. They're out of the house. They're not. I mean, one of them is going to Europe for the spring semester. I mean, they're out. And I understand that. And I'm not asking him to move in with me, but get your own place. And actually, I've even told him, you're not happy in your marriage if you leave her. You should leave her for you not for me and not for anyone else. Whatever choice you make, it has to be because you want to do it. Not for me. Definitely not. I think he depends on her a lot.

Yeah, I'm sure they've been together a long time, right? He relies on her, they're together, they have a family, they have a whole situation going on. And so if your question is, is he going to leave her? I mean, I don't know. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But I think a lot of times it doesn't sound to me like that's, you know, why would he. He, he met him on Ashley Madison, so let's start there. Which is a site that's known for, like, guys who are like, I just want no strings attached sex. You know, I often say, like, he showed you where he's at and what he wants just by those actions of being on that app. And I am sure that he's got feelings for you and the sex is amazing. And you, you seem like just like a wonderful woman and. But I also think, like, no, you probably can't rely on the fact that he's going to leave her. And even if he did, it probably will be very messy and it will be something that is going to take a while. So right now, listen, when it's an affair, you know, it's kind of this illicit romance. You can't quite have him. Like, that's part of the thrill and the excitement. But it also sounds like he's a wonderful guy, but that's kind of part of it. So the day to day, if he does leave, you know, I guess that would be, you know, you guys would have to figure out who you are now together and you're still in your relationship. So there's a lot to untangle. I feel like this is more about you kind of taking control of like what you really want right now in your life. Who are you right now in your life at this point, at this age, what kind of relationship do you actually want to be in? Because sometimes it just feels really good to be with someone new and exciting. But you haven't been in the stage of your life before either. But it sounds to me like, yeah, he's probably getting what he wants right now. He's getting you and his wife.

I mean, the only reasons that I would think that he would leave are like two huge reasons. So she's cheated on him a few times and she pretty much held him hostage because he wanted to leave. But she was like, you're not going to see Your stepson. So there's like a lot of manipulation there. And also.

She will not have any children with him. And he wants children now. Do I? Not really, but you know, is this like a long term thing for me? Probably not, no.

So maybe it doesn't matter. Like, here's the thing, it sounds really, really messy. He still wants kids. You have four kids. Doesn't sound like you want another kid right now. Maybe it's just something that's like taking up your time and helping you with your kind of move past your. Your relationship with your husband. And it's just sort of fun taking up time. But also it's kind of the human condition that if we're with someone, we want them to choose us.

Us.

We want to be the only ones. We want to be the ones that like, we don't want them separating their time with someone else. Like, that's really painful when you're intimate with someone to think, how could they go home to someone? How could they climb in bed with someone else? But he's also kind of getting this warm, wonderful space with you and then he gets to go home and be with his wife. And it sounds like it's a little bit toxic, which, you know, I'd say the majority of relationships have some kind of toxic elements. Sounds to me like maybe there's other places that would be great for you right now to kind of focus on meeting people, whether it's going out, having friends fix you up, doing things that you wouldn't normally do, saying yes to events you wouldn't normally go into and see who comes across your path right now. Like, see who you could meet out there in the real world. Because I'm not hearing that you're like in love with this guy. He's the one. He's your next person. It's more like, is he going to leave her so I can have him? But I'm not even sure that I want him.

I think also I've stopped myself from going there just to protect myself. So I think a lot of that is also like, you know, a defense mechanism.

You haven't even gone there with him, you mean, or you haven't gone there? What do you mean?

Like, I'm not myself to go into that. Like, oh, I'm in love, you know, but I don't feel like I'm like that anyway.

Well, wait, because you think you might actually mean, I don't know, we're just meeting. So you think he is someone that you might be really in love with. But again, we don't know because it's like elicit. Does his wife know? It's my other question. Does his wife know that he's seeing you? No.

And he sleeps on the couch. He's. He has a separate bedroom according to him.

See, we don't know. That's the other thing. I always wonder, like, if you sat down with the wife, like, I wonder what her story would be. There's two sides to every single story. And I'm not saying that he's not telling you the truth. Like his truth is he's on the couch or he wants to be in the couch, or he has one foot out, or he's mostly out, but we don't really know. Right. You're not there. He's actually, you know, carved out a life so he's actually able to spend time with you and it's really, really exciting. So the time that you're together is like heightened and exciting, but it's also not the real world. Right? You haven't seen each other even when you don't wake up together. You don't see him on a Sunday morning. You don't see him when he's stressed from work. It's kind of like a vacation relationship, as I often say, because you're together when it's, you know, kind of like long distance relationships or affairs. It's like only the best parts, the most exciting parts of a human. Maybe it's been a good bridge for you as you're getting out of your marriage and I get the feelings that you're having, but I also just have this sense that there's like another kind of healthier relationship for you to be in right now or maybe just dating a few people. And I know you tried and there were assholes out there that ghosted and there's so many of those. But I think the clearer you get on what you actually want. We just actually did a show on this and it sounds silly, but it's manifesting your partner, like it's truly about getting super clear. Like, what do you actually want? Like, what is. What are your non negotiables? What are your deal breakers? What are the things? And like, because sometimes like we just kind of go around. And again, speaking from I've done this. People, listeners, we all, we've all done these things where we just sort of want to get out of a painful thing and go to what feels good. So we keep going to different men or situations that feel good and that could go on for a lifetime. You could keep swimming from branch to branch and finding someone. Because I'm sure you're a wonderful woman. You're. You can find people wherever. But, like, what's going to sustain you? Like, what are the lessons that you've learned from the relationship that didn't work out? The marriage? Right. I don't know if you've thought about that. Like, do you know what didn't work in your marriage and what might look different going forward? It might be interesting to let them know, too, and see what happens. If you just set a boundary and maybe you'll say, you know what? I realize that, like, I'm going to make a move and I'm going to file papers or I'm going to move out. Like, it's been how many months? You said it's been 20 months. 20 months is a long time.

But I would say probably the last six months that we've really been like, you know, like really in a relationship.

So.

How so? So what has felt different in the last six months? And it felt before that. When you say we've been in a.

Relationship before that, it was just sex. I think the last six months it became very emotional, and we're like, all right, let's try this. You know, it's be together. See how we are together. And then, you know, take it from there. Since then, maybe in the last few weeks, he's like, you know, I'm moving in. He has a cat. He's like, making all these plans about moving in. He has to buy this and that for his cat, but there's like, no set date.

I mean, maybe he'll show up with a suitcase in a few weeks, but that also sounds really complicated. He's got a wife who has no idea, and you've got four kids at home. I just think that there needs to be more information right here. And I would. I would kind of tread lightly with all of this. And to me, it doesn't. And I love that. I mean, I know it's been 20 months, which is actually a really, really long time. I mean, a long time to be with someone in an affair where the wife doesn't find out and you still feel like you want to be with him. But again, I would love if he moved in for a few weeks because then you'd really get to know him. And I guess then you'd go on and work on your getting your divorce settled, too, right? Is there a reason why that I filed.

We're ash. The very last phase of it, I.

Think, fighting out more and then holding him to it and, and kind of maybe having some more deeper conversations about what you both want and how you want to live your lives. Maybe you've already done that, like what the future looks like and how you guys live together. But I think it's important to find out all that information and with a date and seeing if he sticks to it, I think that you'll have your answer. I think that's a great non negotiable like if you don't keep this date then you know that this is really doesn't feel like you're as serious and I'm not gonna invest more time and energy in this.

I agree. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for calling in. Let me know how it goes. We all wanna know. There's so many stories of people who had an affair and then left their primary partner for somebody else. And it works out and I love that. But we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about in the moment. You know, what's gonna happen. What kind of information can you find out to find out this person is somebody that you want, want to at least take the next steps with or if it's just better off to leave an affair and to leave like a thrill. But I telling you that for all these questions you have right now, should I stay? Should I go? In a relationship, the only way we're going to find out the truth and what our next step should be is by having open and honest conversations about the things that we think we cannot say. Check yourself. Where am I holding back? What am I not saying because I'm afraid I'm gonna hurt my partner's feelings? Or what am I not saying because it feels too vulnerable and hard? Well, guess what? Those are the things that you have to say.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily and be sure to like subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter or X and Facebook. It's all sexwithemily. Oh and and I've been told I give really good email. So sign up on sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. And if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559-talksex. That's 559-825-5739 or just go to sexwithemily.com askemily Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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