It Begins With You: Hard Truths About Love & Dating w/ Jillian Turecki

If they talk about their ex on a first date, red flag.

The better flag would be, this is what I learned from my past relationship. The red flag is my ex is a complete crazy person.

Like, guess what? Everyone's ex is crazy. But you're all dating the same person.

Like so. And also it's like, but yeah, yeah, but you love them. So what does that say about you?

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure, liberate the conversation around sex.

Question have you ever found yourself stuck in the same relationship patterns wondering why love feels so hard? Today I'm joined by the incredible Jillian Teki. She's a relationship coach, educator, and host of Jillian on Love. I first discovered Jillian during the pandemic and I was instantly hooked. Her content is real, raw, and most importantly, actionable. She breaks down why so many of us struggle in relationships and help us shift the focus inward. Because. Because let's be real, Love starts with you. In this episode, we dive deep into the hard truths about love. From her new book, It Begins with youh, where Jillian shares nine powerful insights that can truly change your love life. From breakups and attachment styles to why we keep attracting the same type of partners. Hello patterns. And how to spot the most common red flags. Jillian keeps it real with practical tools to help you build the love life you deserve. Plus, we talk about the power of self acceptance, why lust isn't love even though it feels amazing, and the biggest mistakes people make when looking for connection. Whether you're single, dating or in a long term relationships, this episode is packed with insights you don't want to miss. Please rate and review Sex with Emily wherever you listen to the podcast. It just helps get the show out to more people like yourself. You can find me on all social media. Instagram, TikTok, Twitter or X, YouTube, Facebook, all of it. It's all all at Sex with Emily. And please check out my new article, how anxiety affects your sex life and what to do about it. That's up at sex with emily.com all right everyone, enjoy this episode.

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So much for coming on the show, Jillian.

Oh my God. Thanks so much for having me.

So excited to have you. I want everyone to know that I first discovered you, Jillian Trekki, over the pandemic on my Instagram and I was completely sucked in because I love doing the work on myself, learning about trauma, all the things. Like my ex used to joke. He was like, trauma's like your love language. I'm like, tell me your traumas. I love it. But like, Jillian, girl, you're calling out why so many people are suffering in relationships. And you make it so accessible. You know, you like, all of your information is, like, easily digestible. But what's really unique about your content is that when it comes to relationships and dating, you really encourage people to look inwards and not outwards for the answers. And you say that a relationship is like a mirror. It will reflect to us the relationship we have with ourselves. And I just love that.

Yep, it is the truth.

For those of you unfamiliar, Jillian Tearecki is a relationship coach and educator and podcast host of Jillian on Love, which was I was on last year. I loved our conversation.

I loved it too.

So you gotta check that out. But now she also just came out with her new book. It begins with you to share the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. Who doesn't need that?

I mean, really.

So, Jillian, I was thinking about you. I've read your book and done all my deep Dives. And we have a very similar path. So I got into sex with Emily 20 years ago because I was having sex that was very disappointing. It wasn't great sex. I was like, if another guy pounds away me like a jackhammer, like I'm just going to like, give up sex altogether.

I mean, it would be worth giving up sex.

Why? What is this? Why is this happening? And so I went out to seek answers and I thought, you know, and I realized a lot of people were having a lot of those same issues and I wanted to heal myself, heal them. Research is me. Search. And you, on the other hand, 10 years ago.

Yeah.

In 2014, on my birthday, June 2nd. I'm sorry about that. You found out that your mother had terminal cancer.

Well, I actually found out way before that. But what I've. But on that day was like around that day, I found out that she had like, maybe a couple more months to live. But she. But the diagnosis I had been living with, and my husband at the time knew that. And that's also when he decided to just like, up and leave. Yeah.

Let's talk about this. Your husband up and left. You had a miscarriage. It was like a horrible day, but it's pretty hard.

Pretty bad. Yeah.

Right. And so. And so from there, you decided to. You had to turn your life around and started on a new path. So could you just tell us about your journey to becoming.

Yeah. So prior to that, I'd been teaching yoga for many years. Wasn't 18 years yet, but a total. I have had taught yoga for almost a total of 20 years. And yeah, I loved it. You know, I'm a very dedicated yoga practitioner. You know, we know we have some of the similar friends and that space. And I always felt like, you know, there was something more. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I felt like there was something more that I could do. And I didn't know if it was like, open up a studio, which I didn't want to do at all, or do something else. And anyway, ended up meeting the man who would. I. Who I would later marry and then later divorce. And I always say that we had like 90 of our relationship pre marriage was great.

Okay.

Very compatible. Very. Yeah, just very compatible. A lot of like, love there. Ish. And, well, there was a lot of love there. But as I understood love to be at that time, not so much as I understand love now, but. But 10 was really problematic. And what I mean by that is that I ignored some very, very significant red flags and also Because I didn't know how to. I didn't know how to. I didn't have the tools to cope with what was presented to me. When we got married. That 10 became the 90% of our relationship and the 90% became the 10%. Because people think when you get married your problems are going to go away. When actually it magnifies everything. And it was a very challenging marriage. It only lasted two years. And the way that it ended was really tragic. It was like over text and this is something that he later regretted and whatnot. Process but. And my mom was dying of cancer and I had a miscarriage. And I thought, you know, I have to, I have to figure out a way to call myself out. So there was one question that, that haunted me and also motivated me at the same time, which was, what does it take to make a relationship work? Because I was, when I say devastated, that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. I was absolutely traumatized. Devastated. And I was so devastated by the fact that like, oh, here I am 40, like, not. I haven't, I'm getting divorced and like, I don't have a kid. And you know, what is society going to think? Like all these, you know, the weight of society on your shoulders. And, and I, but even more so was just like, I can't believe this didn't work. And I felt so, like a tremendous failure and very, very, very scared. I was terrified. And so I went on a quest. And the quest was sort of two part One, I gotta. How am I gonna feel better? How am I going to get over this? And two, what the hell does make a relationship work? And I've been obsessed with that ever since for almost the last, you know, the last 10 years of my life. And here we are today.

We are today.

Yeah. So.

So it's kind of like from that pain point of like, what, what does it take? And you didn't want to have that hurt again. So you want to make it right.

Right.

By learning all the tips and the tricks and the tools.

Yes.

Like what it looks like. So, so in these last 10 years, you've, you found a lot. You have such incredible information that you are able to help people really on the path. Because I think that we are, you know, we're so not taught how to love. No one's teaching us that. No. And so I guess in the same ways, like no one teaches how to have sex. No one teaches us how to be in a relationship and what love even looks like.

Yes.

So. And you also talk a lot about like dating and relationships too. It's all part of finding love, right?

Yes.

And so, and so you've probably been on your own path through that too. But I was thinking a lot about dating and I was thinking like, what are people struggling with the most now? And I was thinking about this because, well, dating's always been hard. Like let's say 20 years ago we didn't have the dating apps to complain about and to be like, oh God, there's too many people. The bigger, better deal.

People still complain 20 years ago. Yeah, exactly.

So it's always been. Dating has always been difficult.

Yeah.

Why would you say people are still struggling with most now? And is it. So it's really not that different. But what, what are they, what do they need now in dating? Why is it sucks wherever they live, whatever. But.

Well, here's the thing. I think that we're hearing more about how much it sucks because we, 20 years ago we didn't have social media. So we have to really take into account the role of technology in this. People are able to voice their opinions and the spread of information is so fast. But like it's never been easy to find love. You know, it's not. And it's not like it's imposs, but you just don't meet that person every day. Like it is a thing. And, and this, forget about 20 years ago, last hundred years. This is not something. But what I will say that in other cultures it's a lot easier because there's arranged marriages and there's. There's also a. What's the word I'm looking for? It's the mentality of going into love is, you know, find someone with similar values you can raise a family with. And by the way, we have the whole village of the family helping. So part of what's made it difficult, aside from dating apps and technology, is our understanding of love. And our expectation of love, I should say is a better word, has changed. So never in history have we ever really wanted like a soulmate. Right. Someone who's going to fulfill all our needs. We have in, in more modern, ish society and well beyond, you know, in the last couple hundred years. This idea of which I know is not modern society, but this idea of romanticism also is something that's. That's been plugged for a couple of centuries, I would say now. But then like the modern take on that is the rom com. Right. So we have all these examples of what it is to have tremendous chemistry with someone. We have these examples on in literature and in film of what the whole chase of. Of getting together. Right. And then it's like the actual getting together. And then it's like we all. It's like that's like. That's the proverbial climax for all of us. It's like they got together. It's like, now we can relax right to the wedding.

We saw. We threw the rice. They're off. And they're good.

They're good. And there's no examples of, like, what actually happens after, which is actually when the real relationship in many ways starts when we're not on the pedestal and we're past the honeymoon phase. And that's where I have been really interested, is like, okay, what really has to happen after that? And speaking back to my ex and I, like, the couples therapy that we had was terrible. We had great therapy. Like, I had great individual therapy, but the couples work that we did, and we tried a couple of different people, and it was absolutely terrible. And I thought, there has to be another way. So when I first entered this space of just working on people in the relationships versus just their relationship with themselves, which I did with yoga, I really wanted to work with couples, and I worked with hundreds of couples. Like, that was like. I was like, that's what I'm gonna do. But then got a little exhausting. And I really wanted to also work with singles looking for love, because who you choose to partner with, who you choose to spend your life with, I think is the most important decision you will ever make. And then also because I had, you know, triumphed, and I put that in giant quotation marks, if you will, after divorce, I really also wanted to help people with heartbreak and overco that. So I kind of. It's. It's. I try to help people in sort of all. That's so much stages. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the fact that you're working with hundreds, I mean, because couples is like, you're dealing with two people.

It's very intense issues.

It's so intense.

Yeah.

And then individuals, you know, you can really get in there. But I could see that that would be exhausting because also. And what I. The thing is, is, like, it's so. I mean, the hard part is it's so much about doing our own work. But then once you do your own work, how do you do it in relation to somebody else? Right. So. And that's a lot of your work is, you know, it begins with you.

Yeah.

So which is just. It's true. I mean, you can't. And so what I want to ask you this is like I feel like you cannot swing a cat in this town anywhere on social media without hearing about this person's a narcissist, a toxic relationship. Gaslighting how to discover if someone is toxic. But what I find so interesting about your content is you are way less focused on diagnosing your partner and more focused on what you yourself can adjust and bring to the table. What we can do in the relationship. Because the end of the day we can only control ourselves. So, so tell me a little bit about this first. Do you think that there is any use to diagnosing our partner and finding out what they did, what they, what's wrong with them? Because I feel like maybe it's good to. Nice to know, but I don't know. What do you think about that?

Yeah, so I think that when you're dealing with even a dating scenario because like going back to why dating is hard, okay, so the expectations of the one and soul mate who's going to fulfill everything. Then there's a dating apps which is very real where there's a lot of creating of disposability and people feel disposable and people aren't meeting in real person. And so those things add, do add complexity to all of this. I think that if you were in a relationship where you, where you were very manipulated.

Even if it was a dating relationship, or if, and, and or something more serious, much more serious. I think that if you've ever been in something that was very confusing, like someone was totally into me and obsessed with me and then I literally never heard from them again. And when I reached out to them, they did not reach me back. Or if like you are in a relationship and there's a lot of manipulation, it helps to give you some context because then you're like, then there's the validation of, okay, well I'm. Maybe I'm not crazy. Maybe this person really is kind of the crazy one in their own right. But, and, and I should say this, throwing around, yeah, there's some pretty selfish people out there. That doesn't mean that they're necessarily a narcissist. Like we all have narcissistic tendencies and some people, and it exists on this.

It's a spectrum.

I do, I do believe it's a spectrum. And if you really do have narcissistic personality disorder, you are a dangerous person emotionally. But there's a lot of people who behave very immaturely, they're emotionally immature and there's a lot of People who, when they break up with someone, they do not take time to self reflect and they just get back. Back into the dating pool and they poison the pool and.

Right, right, that, exactly. So the narcissist is back in the dating pool.

But.

But what I. It's interesting is.

Or just a selfish person or the immature person.

Yeah, right. Everyone gets back into the dating pool.

Yeah.

I wish that, like, I wish there was some way to ethically.

Interview someone's exes in like a very beautiful way and be like. Because they would probably all say the same thing happened. Yeah, I know people have tried to do this and it doesn't go well. Like there was some like, Facebook, don't date my ex.

Yeah, yeah. Yes.

But it's all there. It's like you could know that people repeat their patterns. But I guess what I'm also asking here is that, okay, so I guess you could spend so much time being like, they were wrong, they were wrong, and then that kind of makes you feel better because you're living in anger. But what I love a lot of what you talk about is like, what's your pattern? Why are you attracted to that person? What is it about you? And I think that's really hard because sometimes it makes people feel good. Well, they were a narcissist or they were a cheater.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I'm absolved. Yes, but you're not necessarily absolved. So how do we turn that lens back towards.

I will tell you exactly. Yes. Okay. So many, many years ago, I was in a relationship with a person who abused me. So toxic to the max. Toxic to the max. Not just someone who was kind of like an or whatever was uncomfortable or like they had certain tendencies. Very, very toxic. And.

What I naturally arrived to getting out of that was what, like, what was that in me that led me to this? I have to make sure this never, ever, ever happens again. And I think that when people are really honest with themselves, they are able to have that sort of inner dialogue where they say, like, why did I attract this person? Or why was I attracted to this person? Or what's wrong with me? And it's again, I would, I would hate for people to say, well, what's wrong with me? And it's about bringing curiosity to it. I recently had a conversation with someone, she's like, I love therapy. I love that. I'll never forget going to couples therapy with my ex boyfriend many years ago. And it was very validating. But I was looking forward to the therapist telling me, like, what Maybe I was doing wrong because I just, I wanted to know. Yeah, I wanted to know. I wanted to understand. I'm a learner. So I think that people really have to have put on their curiosity hat and just say, you know what? Okay, so this is really true. It doesn't take away me. And maybe they were mostly the unhealthy one. Or maybe there were mostly, you know, I think the word unhealthy is used too much. Maybe they were mostly problematic. But what was it in me that was part of this dynamic? How did I contribute to what even if it wasn't dysfunctional, but it just didn't last.

Right.

What did I do or not do? How did I participate in a dynamic that didn't, that didn't actually work? You know, unless it's one of those things where it's like you just kind of grow apart and it's like, you know, but yeah. And I. And it's very important to be able to have to do that. That's how you build self awareness. That's how you grow and most importantly, that's how you prevent it from happening again. It is pain protection. I am asking people to look within so that they can protect themselves from future suffering.

So. Exactly. So can you walk me through maybe a K someone that you work with that you could say like. Because people might be like, well, I don't understand if you're dating, like, what would that discovery look like? Like I came to you and I'm like, I always date. So and so yeah, I have date a lot of alcoholics personally.

Okay.

I don't drink. I don't sometimes, but not a lot with someone.

Okay, so was. Was someone in your family? No one in your family. So what are you drawn to in them?

Because I have two but all sober. But some of them sober.

But same same though, right? In a way, if they're sober. Not.

Yeah, not exactly the same thing. Let's you know, not exactly the same thing. But yeah. Because if you're in a. If you're in a relationship with an active addict, that is, that is true chaos. And then you become the codependent trying to change them.

It's probably codependency, but anyway, we don't have to make it about me, but we could. No, but this is, I think it's interesting to think like, okay, I think I am, I'm sure I probably have a little bit codependency, I think. And then they always stop drinking. Eventually what happens? What are the really.

Oh, so you've been with them while they're actively drinking.

Yeah. And then they're like, I can't because I, I've said, yeah, that's not good. I built. It's really hard for me to build a relationship with somebody. It's really hard for me to be in a committed relationship with someone who has that kind of relationship to alcohol.

Yes.

And then a lot of them have like stopped drinking and it's also a.

While and it's also a pattern. So you shouldn't be dating anyone who's, who's in the program or anything like that. Like, especially if it's, if it's a pattern. Because you know what I would, what I would want to understand from that person is do they have a family member who was either an addict? Are they used to being the fixer? Are they, do they have, do. Do they struggle somewhere in their self esteem and self worth in relationships? Because maybe in work they're spot on that they get into relationships where they feel like they need to be needed. And if they're needed and depended on in some way, like if they are the more grounded one, the quote unquote healthier one, in contrast to, let's say the example, the, the addict, then that person will never leave you. And then you can feel sort of validated and kind of have some control over the relationship. That's one thing. Another thing could be.

You could be attracted to the fact that they are reformed.

They have this dark side that they've had to wrestle with and reform. And that, that is something sexy and dangerous and exciting and enticing. And then you think or, and, or there could be. Well, this person is sober. They've been sober for a while. They do a lot of work. A lot of them. A lot of people who become sober tend to have some sort of spiritual practice. So you're kind of drawn to that. It could also be proximity. Maybe you're in a world. I'm not saying you specifically, but maybe you're in a world like as a yoga teacher, I was in a world where a lot of sober people came to. So all of these things. Is anything ringing true for you?

Yeah, I think the part about maybe just feeling safe. I think that I often. Even though they're. Because to me it's not about me saving. In fact, I think I'm looking for people sometimes to help me in some ways.

But outwardly, yes. But yet you keep getting into relationships with people who.

It's. Yeah. Who are, who are drinking or who just aren't in. Yeah.

If Someone is drinking and not in control of themselves, especially then he can. Because you date men. Yes. He can never be safe to you. Ever, Ever. It's impossible.

So ultimately I find out that they're not safe. But I think they're safe in some ways because I know they're so like into it. And they're very affectionate. They're very effusive about their love. It just feels.

Yes.

Just an example. It's one of my. I'm just trying to think.

But this is. No, no, this is very important. I think we should. I think we should roll with it. I think it'll be beneficial, which is that, you know. Right. The effusive. They're into me. I have the security because they seem so into me. But really true security in a relationship comes from being able to build a foundation of trust and safety. And you can't do that when someone, when they're in the throes of their addiction. It's impossible. And you know, finding someone who's so into you means nothing if someone doesn't have the character or the same values or the tools to actually be in a relationship with you. But bringing it back to it begins with you. What can you like? That's your pattern you most people like. What you could do is completely focus on them, constantly diagnose them, figure out their character defects. And maybe you need to focus a little bit on that. But then you have to say, what is it in me? Like, what am I doing? Why am I choosing partners who can never meet my needs? What am. What is my blueprint of a relationship? Oh, they're really into me. They're very effusive. They give me a lot of affection. Yes, I'm going to be in a relationship with them. Not enough.

I don't vet enough probably.

Yeah, you don't. You're not discerning enough. And most people are not. And a lot of women are not because they think this, this feels so good. And we do that. But if we're looking for long term partnership, we have to be much more discerning.

Well, you know what really resonated too, and I've thought a lot about this is that. And this is an older pattern, but I think that it's that I sort of know from my own attachment and like I sort of know that they're not safe and that this won't probably ever be a thing because I can't really trust someone who's. Who's like that. And really who's somebody who is in an addiction or has a behavior like that. There's other things too, where then I actually don't trust them. Like, I feel like this isn't safe and safety is so important to me. Like, it's funny because I feel very safe in my friendships and now my family after a lot of work. But with, with the people I've dated in patterns, it was more like, oh, I don't have to truly open up and love this person. I know it won't go anywhere. It's not safe, but just sort of a classic thing to think. I, I. Oh, interesting. Well, then the way I wanted to love has been different. It's. I was never one who was prioritizing a typical relationship either.

Yeah. Okay.

You know, so I was, I was not looking for. My life wasn't really based upon finding love and marriage and family. I was always much more about creating purpose and being very involved in the world and having lots of life and lovers.

But that's on having lots of life and different lovers. Okay. Got. Yeah. Yeah.

That's how it's been. Through lots of different paths.

Yeah.

But I just find it interesting. I just love that your work points towards what, what, what, what is our lesson in it? Because there's just so many people who are like, they cheated. They're evil. They're evil. And then just. And I like that your book goes deep on that. Like, that you ask questions that. These are the questions that you should ask yourself before you go out and date again.

Yes.

Because you will keep recreating the same patterns over and over again. Right?

Absolutely.

Until you just deal with it.

And there are a lot of case studies of, of married couples. There's also, like, what are you doing, like, when you're in the relationship? So it's definitely for people of all stages of relationship.

It is for all stages. So I want to get into that because in your book, it begins with you. You share nine hard truths about love. And I'm telling you, everyone has to read this book. It reads like a beautiful story, but you share, like, your deep vulnerabilities and your case studies and how you work with people. And it really is just kind of holding people's hands through, through different relationships, challenges they might find themselves in. And I love that it allows the readers to reflect on their own experiences so candidly through you. And the way you storytell, it's beautiful.

Thank you very much.

So one truth in your book, you can't convince someone to love you. And I love this because you talk about the core Feeling of being unlovable. So can you explain why that is such a core, you know, why being unlovable is so core for so many people.

People, I think that everyone has a fear that they're not enough and, but obviously not everyone has it to the same degree. But I think in a romantic relationship all we want is love and we just want to be enough. And so much of our, so much of our crappy behavior in a relationship, you know, when we just, when we look back we're like, oh God, I wish I didn't do that. You know, a lot of the time it's just fear, right? And so, and what's that fear? It's a fear like I'm not going to be enough and if I'm not enough for this person, then I'm going to lose them. And it's the loss of love that we are.

Really trying to prevent at all costs. You know, and some people, their self esteem and their self worth, like they truly don't believe, they, they don't believe in their deservability when it comes to love and that they actually are love lovable. I mean, look, it's very difficult when you love someone and then you're having some trouble in your relationship or marriage and then they stop loving you or they don't want to be with you anymore. The first thing that, that we go to is oh my God, I'm not good enough, I'm not lovable. And that becomes a story, it becomes a narrative, it becomes a mantra, it becomes our own internal hypnosis. And that's something that we carry on our shoulder, we carry it on our backs and it's really heavy and we try to lug it up like these, like big hills, right?

So much of, of processing the end of a relationship where someone is like pulling their love away. And then I'll get to what happens when you date someone because I think it's important to see from both perspectives.

So much of that is.

Processing the truth of the actual story, not your creation of it based on your understandable pain. So is so a lot of times it's is it true that you're not lovable or is it true that, or rather is it true perhaps that you've been trying to make something work with someone who you've known very much viscerally inside your bones is not right for you, but because you're so afraid to lose the love, understandably you've been clinging to this relationship and then when they pull away, instead of embracing your freedom which is what you've been gifted, especially if it's a difficult relationship you go into. I'm just not lovable. And it really is a hypnosis that we all go under it, isn't it?

It's. It's true. It's like a hypnosis. And it's such, it's such a fear. I always think, like, and that's one of your truths too. Like, look at your relationship with your parents. And it could come from like, isn't that just one of our core, like, our greatest fear of all is that we're just unlovable. We're going to be rejected, we're going to be alone. And so in relationships we easily. Right. Get, get, get, get triggered by it or things that we do. Just. I mean, I know I get nervous about it with sometimes even with like, work stuff, I'm like, oh, I'm like reinventing the podcast or doing different things. I'm like, what if people don't love me anymore? What if it's different? It' you know what I mean? So it comes back to like, but is that real? Or what if, my friend. You know? So I think it's just something that's always, you know, it's kind of like in all of us.

Yeah.

No matter what we do, we're afraid we're not going to be loved, you know?

Oh, it's. Everyone fears that they're not enough in some way. Obviously. Again, a spectrum. There's people with very low self esteem. They struggle with a lot more. And there are people with it, with healthy self esteem. And even with healthy self esteem, there's. There's always that underlying fear that we're not going to be enough.

Okay. Yes. I want to talk about something you said. I might get this wrong, but it was, it was that self esteem equals self acceptance.

In my.

I believe that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my view, when I, When I think about self worth.

Self seem, self worth, self love, I think of it generally as a self acceptance, which just means that.

Even though you are aware of the parts of yourself that might be difficult.

That might be challenging.

That might be a little narcissistic without being narcissist, like truly narcissistic, that you recognize that even though you can you have this ambivalence or like you have this sort of like, ick with certain parts of yourself, that you still understand that you are worthy and you have value and that you deserve love. And that's truly self acceptance. And I don't know if we ever get to full self acceptance. I mean, maybe in elder years, but I think that it's a lifelong journey, but it really is about accepting all the parts of yourself. It's like, yeah, okay, this is what I struggle with. And maybe this is the thing that I've been hiding from potential lovers because if they see this, they're not going to love me. But we have to be able to make peace with that. Those parts of ourselves.

Right? Yeah, part of it. Right. We're only like as sick as our secrets or the parts of ourselves that we think aren't, Aren't lovable are actually the ones that we need to share. But that's just been a big, really big. And it's just like, like you said, it's a journey and that this is like always hearing how important it is to like love yourself or accept yourself. It's just been a big. Even for me personally, I've had so many times where it's like, I decided like this year I was like, you know what? I am really working towards more self acceptance rather than self improvement.

Yes.

Because. And that's kind of what you're saying is like, I could. I see all the things, all the challenges, all the things I want to.

Fix and I might be working on that. And you should be like on some.

On some level yet it's so easy to go to the like. But all these things are wrong because you'll always be things to fix. Yeah. So I just think that was such a great. I love that you. That you talked about that. That feels very, very important and insightful. We'll be right back after a quick message from our sponsors. So don't go away.

I am super curious about this and it never came up when you were on my show, which is so. So what you wanted at one point in your life was like, follow purpose and then have a bunch of adventures and affairs like in Lovers. Has that changed?

That's a great question. Yeah, I.

I went honest. I. Okay, so I think that I didn't feel that that was okay. That's what I wanted, but I felt that I didn't have a lot of role models for that. And I still had this nagging. But that's not okay. You probably should want something else. You should be in a relationship. You should, you know. And so I think just recently I am stepping into the fact that like, this is the life I've always been living and sort of, I think I was out of alignment. Yeah, it's what I wanted, but I wasn't talking about it because it felt like it. My life is. I've. Is so full. And it actually. I actually have lived that life. And once I let go of it's not okay, or it's shameful or it's not accepted.

Yeah.

I'm feeling so much more myself.

Yourself. And you feel more connected to it. So if there's adventures and affairs, then would it be like, not. Would you be living together?

I'm not saying that it's not. It's affairs per se. It's more like, listen, I'm always open to anything. If I met somebody and it was, oh, my God, I'd be like, how amazing we could live together and spend. That would be great. But I also know the data and the research. The research shows that women initiate more endings of relationships in marriages. Women do better. Women actually are happier when they're not in relationships. They.

I know, because the Harvard study was about men, not women.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

It was about men not thriving out of relationships.

Yeah. Basically, you live longer when you're in a relationship. I mean, obviously. Yeah, they do. But they didn't. But they didn't. There's no data. It was a very, very. It's the longest study that has ever been done. It was a Harvard study, but it wasn't. It was only done with men. So we don't know with women.

No. There have been recent studies that have shown that women are actually happier. They're more satisfied that our sexuality actually thrives with the separation. There's all this notions that women are the one. That women are the ones who, like. Like we say, become frigid and men want sex all the time. None of that is true.

No, none of that is true.

We just never understood women's sexuality. And for me, personally, I have found that I. For me to feel really connected and sexual with someone, I actually need my space. I don't think that sharing a bedroom with someone and sometimes even sharing a home with someone.

Yeah.

Is where I personally thrive, because I. There's a lot. I don't want the pressure or the compulsory need to have sex. I love having my own space. And then I love having someone come over. That's why we love dating.

Yeah.

But then we move in together.

Yeah.

And. And everything becomes one. And then we're all desperately trying to figure out how to keep that love alive when. What if you just. That wasn't normalized? Like, what if you had the choice to not live with someone? And I get that it is a luxury and a privilege.

Well, I think it's important if you're a parent. I think it's important. I do think it's important if you, if you have kids.

Yeah. But if you don't have kids, which so many people.

Look, my mom and my stepfather never lived together. I don't. I don't think I ever want to look at someone again.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. I'm also kind of like, want, like monogamous, like long term kind of thing, you know, But I, but. But it would have to be something really extraordinary. Yeah.

Well, must I be so. Yeah, it had to be extraordinary. And I'm just really been into. Right. So right now it's more like. And people like, are you dating? Are you not? Because I did just end a relationship.

Yeah.

But it's like, I feel like I'm dating is a state of, like, of light, like a state of being. I think I'm always open to meeting somebody, but I'm not. Like, I'm shut off now and not dating. It's just sort of, you know, my life has sort of worked that way. So I think I'm just leading into what has always been true.

Do you break or breakups typically something that you recover well from, or do you get very, very depressed and sort of sad and a little bit of both.

I think I. I've gone in so many different phases. I think I used to be like somebody who I broke in so many patterns. I used to literally, I used to joke I'd break up with someone this day, and then it would be like, I turn around and there's somebody else. And then I used to picture myself like a monkey swinging through the branches. Like, there's the next one. There's the next one. I don't do that anymore.

Yeah. And.

And now I. Yeah, I mourn it. I really try to learn, like, what was. How is this still my pattern? And so, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done it all. But I was gonna ask you, like, people always say to me, sex with Emily. Like, is it really hard to date you? Like, because people always assume that I'm gonna be on 247 or what it's. Or maybe they just want a debate. Do you get this too?

Oh, my God. That was one of the questions I was gonna ask you, like. Or they think you're gonna be like, just like some like, freaky hoe in the bedroom or like, whatever. Just like, like have that kind of intimidation. And like, with me it's like, oh, you're gonna know everything about. It would take a very strong man to Be with me. He's, like, very strong in it that he's. He's like, knows who he is.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Yeah. They put you on this, like, right.

All this projective projection, but you probably get that too.

I have been getting it my whole life with. Since teaching yoga.

Yes.

It's exhausting.

God, it is exhausting.

Yeah.

Just wondering about that. Okay, let's talk about breakups for a minute. Because you say the hardest. That going through breakup is one of the hardest things that a human will go through. I think we can all have take a moment, think about our breakups. And I thought it is hard to be broken up with. But truthfully, like, my hardest breakups are the ones where I've broken up with my partners. And I wonder, am I making the right call? Is something wrong with me for breaking up with them? So, like, am I the bad one? So, like, what's your advice for breaking up with someone?

I mean, look, breaking up is complicated for everyone. Not every breakup is created equal. Some breakups are actually, like, kind of easy, and some are emotionally catastrophic, and some are really traumatizing.

I think for the person who fears abandonment, to be broken up with reinforces the belief that they're not lovable. That's a tr. That's traumatizing for that person. For the person who feels like they never make the right decisions and they don't. They don't feel confident in their decision making, and they. And they tend to go back and forth. And then breaking up with someone, they can go through their own hell and they're back and forth and. But breaking up, whether you're the initiator or the recipient, like, it all sucks.

It all sucks. Yeah, it's all really, really hard. It's hard, but. So then, what would be your best piece of advice for getting over a breakup?

Huh?

Everyone talks about going no contact. Like, what's your thing?

Okay, so no contact jam. So no contact is only possible for certain people. I mean, if you have children, you can't go no contact.

Great point.

You know, so let's. I think to go no contact is a privilege. If you are actually in a position to go no contact with someone, you are very lucky.

I think that. You know.

I know it's not just one.

Yeah. I think that going no contact is a needle mover. If you can do it, it really helps. But to go directly into no contact when you've been married to someone, even if you don't have kids, can be very, very, very difficult. And so I Don't want people to be so hard on themselves. Certainly for the shorter relationships, the, you know, the, the really intense 2 to 3, 4, 5 month relationships where you don't really have, you know, a lot of, you know, your lives are not so intertwined. Like go, go, please go. No contact right away. It will help you so much. But that means you have got a block unfollow. Stop looking at their social media. It really, when you have that privilege, as I would say, it really does. It does, it does help. It helps.

Yeah. It's like quitting anything. Like it's hard first but then you get through it. So.

Okay.

So yeah. What would your advice be about breaking up with someone? And I feel like I always hear stories from people who are like, oh my God, I was blindsided. I didn't know it was going to happen or I was shocked. I mean first off is that I always feel like there's got to have been clues.

It's very, very rare that you know when someone says, more often than not when someone says, I was blindsided and these things can happen. But it's like really like is there or was there a denial there? Was there a lot of conversations? You know, were you actually really happy? You know, maybe you weren't expecting the breakup, but actually were you not, you know, were you having a lot of talks about the relationship? Endless circular talks. But I think that unless you're in some sort of dangerous situation emotionally or physically, the way that you break up with someone is being, by being very honest, like kind and direct with someone and, and trying to give them as just as much clarity and just honesty as possible.

Yeah.

And in person if possible. If it's possible. It's the right thing to do.

No text.

Yeah, no, no text or no post, bro. No, post it. Okay.

Can you show me? So pretend we've been a relationship. Like would you, would you actually break up with me right now?

Oh man.

So we're going to pretend that I'm breaking up with someone who's not a complete person. Betraying toxic person. You know this. We're just as like.

I want you to know that I do love you and I care about you a lot. And I know, you know, things have been really difficult between the two of us and this is not easy for me. I care about you, I care about your well being. But you know that I haven't been happy for a long time and that we really haven't been happy for a long time. And.

I think it would be best for the both of us. Maybe not right away. It won't feel good right away, but I think ultimately what's going to be best for us is for us to separate. And this is really hard for me and I'm really sad and there's a big part of me that doesn't want to do it, but I know that it's the right thing to do and I know this really hurts and I'm sorry. And that's just like the initial thing. But it's probably going to be a really long conversation.

I could be like you. I didn't see it coming.

I know something along those lines.

Yeah, no, really get thoughtful about it. Be. Be clear.

Clear, you know, clarity, kind about it. Be just really clear about it. Yeah.

What do you think about being friends with your exes?

No.

No, never.

No, not never.

Okay. Because I.

No, no, no, not never.

Initially.

Yeah, initially. So here. So.

Right.

So let me. There's nuance, right? There's nuance. Let's say you've been in a relationship and the two of you have been together for a really long time and the last year of your relationship, you weren't having sex. You really turned into best friends. That can. That's a smooth transition. Into friendship. Or you turned into like brother and sister. That's a very smooth transition. A lot of people, it's like, can I be friends with this person? Is code for I don't. We can't let go of each other.

Yeah. I mean. Or one person's hoping to get back.

Together and then it gets really messy. But years down the road, lives change. Yes, of course I would. I don't really speak in absolutes. I think that's ridiculous. Life is way more nuanced than that.

I'm with you. I just get pushback on this because I am friends with a lot of my exes. But how I've done that is I, you know, I haven't tended to date. I've been in really like a. Toxic relationships, but it's not right away. Yeah, we don't hang. It's not like we are dating and the next day we're out to lunch and. But it takes a few months for the adjustments and I'm six months or a year. But if it's truly a great connection, but it just. Better as friends.

Yeah.

I've been able to have some really beautiful relationships with X.

As long as there's boundaries and you're not still in a relationship with them that mimics your romantic relationship. Except the only thing that you took away away was the physical intimacy.

Yeah, I'm with you.

Yeah.

Okay, so what about you talk about in the nine. In the, the nine heart tooths you talk about. I was very interested in number three. Lust is not the same thing as love. Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Because a lot of people confuse the two and get themselves into a lot of trouble. And trust me, I've been there too.

Been there.

You've been there. It's like the attraction there's amazing. It's amazing. It feels so good. It's intoxicating. And then we're on each other's pedestals and what's really happening is that when we're on the pedestals, we are projecting what are like 16 year old ideal version of a partner is like our, like what our crushes or even what are older like this is the perfect partner because they're like this. And so it's all a projection. And during the lust phase, it's amazing. But. But you're not actually seeing the person you had. Like it. It's pretty amazing when you can reach a level of self awareness where you're like, I'm not actually totally seeing the person I'm seeing. What I'm. What I'm doing is I am intoxicated with the hormones that are released in my system with this loss. And it's wonderful and you can enjoy it, but you also have to ground yourself by processing your enthusiasm. Just saying, this is great, this is wonderful, but I'm not going to plan my future with this person yet because I actually don't know like if we're actually a match and I don't know this person's character and I don't know what it's going to be like when we repair. So I am going to be cautiously optimistic.

But don't just jump right in. I think you say that people, some people really want more connection, but not a relationship.

Yeah, well, connection, exactly. So people, there's lots and lots of people there who are craving a connection with someone. And to them it's like that feeling of the lust. And it's wonderful. What it takes to build like one of the most profound lessons that I learned is like what it takes to build a relationship. And one in which that's good. I'm not even talking about great. I'm talking about at least just good is you have to build foundation. And that foundation is trust and safety. And that takes time together. That takes. Oh, how do we, how do we make up after an argument. How do we argue with each other?

What?

We have to have a lot of experiences together. We have to meet each other's families or at least each other's important people. We have to know who this person is outside of the bubble of our existence with them. Yeah. And so, you know, that takes some time. There's building that I say the first year of a relationship is. Is very fragile. You're in the building stage.

Building. You got. And you got to be paying. Paying attention.

Yeah. You have to be paying attention. Yeah.

Taking notes. Like, I'm noticing this. It doesn't.

And communicate. Do we communicate? Do we have the same communications? All. Can we meet in the middle of the communication style? What am I doing to create safety and trust? Forget about just what this person. Because people think. And I understand this. I really do. I have nothing but compassion and empathy. I've been there. We think a relationship is a place that we go to get. Get love, get attention, get validation. You know, all the things that mommy and daddy didn't give us, this person is going to give us. This is not necessarily conscious, but we do this. And rarely do we think, what am I going to give?

This person's going to fill me up in all these ways. They're going to be my best friend, they're going to be my confidant, they're.

Going to be a lover. Right. What am I, What. What do I want to give? What do I want to bring to the table? And even more important question, who do I want to be in this relationship?

It's so hard to know that until you're with somebody, unless you do a lot of the work ahead of time. Thinking about, who do I want to. I guess with each person, you're going to be something different.

Yeah. And you do some of the work ahead of time. But really the, the meat of the work is when you are in the ring with the person figuring it out.

And everyone really. Would you agree that everyone would benefit from some sort of therapy, work coaching?

Some sort of therapy or coaching? Yeah, I don't. I don't think. I think. I think everyone needs to, like, see a therapist at some point. But I don't believe that everyone has to be like, in therapy all the time. I don't believe in that at all.

Okay, but what about this? Like, how do you get couples? Well, I guess it's just that you. Because that process of learning is. Which is what all of your work is about. And as we started this conversation, you have the wedding and you see all that but no one's talking about how do you actually, I've been saying communication is a lubrication. Communicate forever. Yeah, the actual like you and like how do you actually do that? Like, how do you. Like, it's amazing. If you'll call, like.

Well, I.

Partners won't talk about it. They just won't go to therapy. It's like to me that's a sign. Like.

Yeah.

How much of it is like for the couples you see is someone's pushing the other person along. Like, do you think that's a good. Do you think it's good to bring your partner into.

It's a very good question.

How do you know when to stop?

That's a very good question. Well, what I would say in heterosexual relationships, relationships, classically, it's more the woman who wants to talk about it, not the man. Because women, we are very keenly aware of what's not working in a relationship and we have a. Because we are so wired towards safety. One of the ways in which we have to be more mindful as women in relationships is not to only hyper focus on what's missing and also focus on what's there. Because women have a tendency to do that and then to get it and to lean towards more negativity and bring up more negativity in the relationship, leaving their partner, man or woman, exhausted. So that's one spectrum. But in general, like where men really, I think need to work on themselves in a relationship is they are really good at compartmentalizing and suppressing and repressing what's wrong and not wanting to look at it. And women more than men are the ones who initiate divorce. And it's for that very reason because he won't look at it. All she is, is looking at it. Right. So I think that, you know, there's definitely cases where I've worked with people where I've said you're talking about the relationship too much, you're actually communicating too much about what's wrong and you're not doing some of the non verbal communication of learning how to have a good time to each other, with each other. That does happen. But what happens more often is that people are not having the uncomfortable conversations. And it's very important and I think that people, I think you should expect that of yourself and of your partner and just say, and you can even say, I know this is very difficult for you. This is very difficult for me too. I know this is very uncomfortable. By the way, you know I love you and I Want this to go as easy as it can. But, like, we do need to talk about it, and I need to be in a relationship where we can talk about it. So let me know when you're free and let's sit down. Let's do this and be awkward together. And let's.

That's what I. And is there any way to test this out early on? I always think we're in the honeymoon phase. We don't want to have any conversations because it's going so wonderfully because we're running on the feel good hormones. I just sometimes wish I could save ourselves some time and suffering. Is there anything you can do to be like, here's the test, here's what we can know.

Yeah. Before you get serious with someone, talk about children, talk about money, talk about sex, talk about religion and spiritual beliefs. Talk about it. It all. Talk about how you want to live your life. Talk about it all.

I think. I think that there's still that notion that I can't. I don't want to upset them. I don't want to ask about, like, what do you. This is for yourself.

This is for yourself. It's for that. It's. It's to be smart. It's like, oh, I don't. And some people are. I don't want to. I don't want to learn that because I don't want to risk losing them. But there's some. I'm not a religious person and I'm Jewish. But something that I think is really wonderful. And there's. There's. In the Jewish faith, they do this. In Catholicism, Christianity, they do this and maybe more. This is just whatever my. My naivete about this. But one thing is a lot of people in more religious communities, they speak with a counselor. Like, maybe it's their rabbi or their priest, and they speak to someone before they get married to really go over these things. That's very. Because it's very rooted in values. And let me tell you something. I think that's a very good thing. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. Okay, so let's play a little bit of game. Let's play a little game. Okay. Okay. Ready?

Yeah.

Okay. So you put a lot of content out about being able to identify red flags. So I want to play a game with you. Red flag or not. And I tend to look like I. I, like, read red flags. I'm like, well, it could be this or that. Because when something thinks something happens in relationship zones, I think we're just gathering information. Okay, they're late gathering Information. They didn't. Forgot their wallet. Gathering information. But that said, for the sake of the gate. Right. Again, like, they're late. You know, they don't offer to pay, whatever. So I. I feel like sometimes, like, I'm just gathering information. But maybe it's a red flag. But for the sake of this game, as a relationship coach, counselor, author, all the things.

Yeah.

Ready?

Yes. Let's do it.

Okay. If they constantly check their phone. Red flag.

Are we talking about a date?

Yes.

Like a first date. Like, you know, in the beginning, it.

Could be a date or in a relationship, maybe it's. I don't.

In a relationship, there's a lot of nuance. I think that would be easier to like to. To maybe put this in the.

Okay, first date.

Yeah, red flag.

I'm with you first.

Unless they are a parent and they said, listen, I'm a parent. I have a babysitter. I have to check my phone ever. Because it's a new babysitter. That's like literally the only excuse.

Or their doctor on call, or their.

Doctor on call, or they have a family member in the hospital, all. Yeah, yeah. Then they should. Exactly. Then they shouldn't be on a date. Exactly. So, yes, red flag.

They're late to a first date.

Red flag, yellow flag. I need more information.

If they don't respond to your text, but they're really busy at their job.

Well, it's not. If someone. If you're dating someone, they have a big job and they're not, and they're only able to text you back at the latter half of the day, that's perfectly fine. You're. You're. They're busy. We. And you should be busy too. But if they just don't respond to you that day because they're, quote, unquote, too busy. Red flags. Flag.

Okay. If they talk about their ex on a first date. Red flag.

It depends on what context. What. What I would. The better flag would be, this is what I learned from my past relationship. The red flag is my ex is a complete crazy person.

So I love that nuance. Yeah. So true. When they're like, my ex is crazy. I'm like, guess what? Everyone's ex is crazy. Were you all dating the same person?

Like, yeah, so. And also, it's like, but, yeah, yeah, but you love them, so what does that say about you?

Right? Exactly. But. But to say, this is what I love when they lead with, like, my ex, and I'm learning from that.

Yeah, yeah. That.

That's like.

Or the ex is the is. Is the mother or father of your child. And so you. You're just kind of sharing that. This is. You're kind of laying the groundwork. Like, this is the kind of relationship that I have with. With my ex spouse or whatever. Yeah.

If they've ghosted multiple people, red flag.

Even once. Red flag.

Once.

Yeah.

Okay. If they prefer not to talk things out and just wait for it to blow over.

Yeah. Red flag.

Flag. If they don't have a good relationship.

With their parents, yellow flag. I'd want to know more information.

Okay. I have our five quickie questions we ask all of our guests.

Okay.

So don't overthink quick. Don't think too hard. First thing that pops in your head. Okay. Biggest turn on.

Ooh.

Presence.

Someone who's like, really gifts but presents.

No. Someone who's like, really present with me and like, really, like, engaged with me.

Me.

Yeah.

Biggest turn off.

Two, they're constantly distracted, and two, they're stingy.

What would you tell your younger self about sex and relationships?

My younger self? What I would say about sex is your pleasure really matters and your body is your temple. Don't let anyone just get inside there.

Yes. What's one thing you wish everyone knew about sex?

It complicates things. Even if you're very sex positive and very open person, it's always going to complicate feelings with another person. And you need to be mindful of that.

What makes good sex?

Huh. I think that's different for people. I think it depends on who you're asking. I can't really say that for everyone.

I wanted it. One more thing I've realized I wanted to ask you. What are. If you had to say, what are the biggest things? Biggest things that come up around sex with your clients? Like, what are the challenges right now? Yeah. I'm so into talking about you, about all the stuff. Yeah, let's talk about sex, family.

So a lot of the common things is, you know.

We don't have enough sex.

They.

They don't do the things that they did in the beginning of the relationship to get me hot.

They.

If it's dating, it's. They weren't present. Jackhammer kind of thing, you know, or just like, whatever. But. Yeah, not enough. Not enough sex or I'm not sure if I'm still attracted to my partner or not.

Yeah, that's a big one. And then I go back and read your chemistry chapter.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for being here, Jillian. I so appreciate you. And one final thing I like to Pick out something, send you home with a little more pleasure than you came with. Oh, my God. With more pleasure. So I want to gift you this. You can open it up.

Oh, my God. I'm so excited.

This toy would resonate with you.

Oh, my God. Am I getting a new toy?

Getting a new toy. And this is the LELO GG3. And it's. I love it because it's soft and powerful, just like you.

Oh, thank you so much.

I love you. The softness and the strength, and this is a really great toy that hits all the great spots.

I can't wait to try it.

There goes your evening.

There goes my evening. Date with me.

Some flavored. I got you. There's also some flavored chocolatey lubes in there that are really good.

I've never tried.

Like, they taste so good.

Ooh, there's a chocolate one and a green apple. You. You like. This is like. These would be in my choices.

Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you.

Felt that.

Okay. Well, gosh, this is very exciting.

And it also is app control, which is kind of like, you know, witches of the future, just like you.

What's that?

It's app control.

Oh, app controlled.

Oh, so someone else could control it. I believe that's how it works. Someone else could control it from another country, another room.

Oh, my God.

There's an app.

That's fucking amazing.

Right? So I was like, it's very futuristic. It is.

I love it. Thank you so much.

You're so welcome. Okay, so thank you for being here. Thank you for all you do. Where can people find you? What's going on?

Well, the book. Jilliantorecki.com book and then, of course, my Instagram, Jilliantorecki, my podcast, Jillian on Love, and just all social media channels.

Amazing. Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me.

That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. And be sure to, like, subscribe and give us a review wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner. You can find me on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, Twitter, or X and Facebook. It's all Sex with Emily. Oh, and I've been told I give really good email, so sign up on sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. And if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating, or relationships, call my hotline 559-talk-SEX. That's 559-825-5739. Or just go to sexthenly.com.com ask emily was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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