7 Dec 2025 · 61 min
Emily Morse and Jamie discuss sexual health basics like hygiene and safe-sex practices, share survey findings on millennials and kink, and take a call from Jay in Seattle about open relationship problems and therapy.
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Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm taking your calls and helping you with sex, relationships, and everything in between, from best bedroom practices to who's having kinkier sex. All this and more. Thanks for listening.
Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.
Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.
Hey Emily, you got a boyfriend?
Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken.
He thinks you're kind of cute.
A girl's gotta have her standards.
Oh my.
Do women know about shrinkage?
Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks?
Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me?
Oh my God, it feels so good.
Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.
You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com and check out our website, which is amazing. Jamie, who's here with me, makes it truly amazing. Thanks for being in charge of all that and everything else you do.
Of course, it's so fun.
Dame, you're so good. I'm so glad you're here with me today. Also, everyone should find us on the website. Find us also on social media. It's @sexwithemily across the board. How you doing, Jamie?
I'm doing quite well. How are you today?
Good. How was, um, your masturbation month? It's almost over.
It is almost over. Um, it's going quite well. I'm trying to switch up my routine a little bit, uh, because I'm very lazy.
You're a lazy masturbator.
I am. And I don't know, it's just like, because I'm, I'm very like just quick to the point. It's actually funny, so we have this blog that just came out on the site, um, by one of our new writers, and she actually is really into astrology and tarot reading and all this different stuff. So she did a masturbation horoscope. I was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting. You know, we've never really done like a zodiac thing on the site, and I, you know, I always enjoy reading those kinds of things. Like, even if I don't always believe them. It's just fun, you know, to see, oh, does it match me or not? So I'm reading her Aries masturbator thing and I'm like, oh my God, she's completely spot on. It's saying that the Aries knows how— like, doesn't beat around the bush, knows what it wants. And when an Aries wants to— yeah, exactly. When an Aries wants to orgasm, they want it and they want it now. And I was like, oh my God, that's me.
Really? That's so funny. I want— so this is going to be— it's on the site now, we just posted it. Okay, interesting.
Yeah, and so, I mean, it's just—
I feel like people— everyone reads their horoscope, I think, every once in a while. So why not make it about something that's actually useful?
Exactly. It's fun.
I know, it is fun. I didn't read mine yet, but you said the Gemini sounded like it was very me.
Yeah, no, it was that I'm— you're— because it was saying that, uh, you are very intellectually stimulated and that, you know, you do like, you know, dirty talk is great, but And so it's like, it gives tips on what you can do to get out of your masturbation rut if you are in one. And it's like, try dirty talking to yourself, which was what it said for yours, which I think would be interesting.
Yeah, I just love talk, seriously. Dirty talking to myself? Yeah, while you're masturbating. Like, hey, I'm harder, faster, you're so sexy.
Yeah, like while you're like, whatever fantasy that you're fantasizing about, just like say it out loud.
So it's an audible person. Yeah, okay, that's good. Well, I'm gonna have to check that out and read. I had a sextrologer on the show when we first started. I wonder if people would be interested in that. Let us know. Read your sex horoscope.
Yeah, let us know if it's spot on because it was for me.
Yeah, speaking of dirty talk, what about dirty sex, Jane? Sex in the news here. We're gonna go through a few things. I think— I feel like people need to know these things. Yes. Um, here's some bedroom practices to avoid any unwanted infections.
And also actual dirty sex.
Actual dirty sex, exactly. What about dirty, dirty sex that you guys "You gotta be clean. We talk about this all the time." We want you to practice safe sex. It's very important. Use condoms, all that. But that's not just about birth control and protecting infections. We're talking about washing up, wrapping up, peeing after sex. These are all things that you can hear maybe once and you do it maybe once or twice. You're like, "Oh, I'm always going to go to the bathroom after sex." Especially women and men. But for women, that's how we get yeast infections, UTIs, Yeah, you gotta pee.
No, and I think you're right about the washing up. Um, totally. Like, I never really realized it before because I've never really been like, how weird is it to be like making out with someone and all the stuff and being like, oh wait, did you wash your hands?
I know, you're like, okay, Mom. Like, it's not sexy unless they're into that kind of thing. But right, you feel like a nag, but they have to.
Yeah. And I had a recent, actual recent thing that happened to me. You know, I was with the person that I'm seeing and, you know, he was eating Taco Bell, which I mean, don't look for all the haters out there. I love me some Taco Bell every once in a while.
Right. Who doesn't? Life's short.
But, you know, we were about to hook up after and I was like, um, cause he was really messy this time when he was eating. I was like, this might be weird, but like, can you go wash your hands? Cause I wasn't eating it. I was like, I had already eaten or whatever. And he was kind of looked at me and he's just like, I mean, yeah, but, and I was like, well, I'm just saying, like, I watched you eat that and like, I just need you to wash your hands.
No, good. It's true. Well, now I can't not have someone like do it. Sometimes they go to the bathroom and they come out and they haven't washed their hands. But here's why, you guys, you know, we never prepare a meal without washing our hands, obviously. And we always wash our hands after using the bathroom. So sex deserves the same preparation. And it seems really basic, but our hands, they carry bacteria or hot sauce or something that can cause yeast and bladder infections. That's what I get nervous about too. Like someone, You know, yeah, they touch a hot sauce, they're cutting an onion, they touch you with that.
No, that's so true.
I know, so wash your hands. Really, spread infections. Also the peeing before and after sex. Women have to urinate before and after sexual intercourse to prevent UTIs. And stay hydrated. And even if you don't have to pee, you have to pee. Do you follow this, Jane? I've gone in phases where I'm better at it and now I'm in a really good phase.
Yeah, I was literally gonna say that. Sometimes, sometimes I don't, but, I, you know what I don't get?
What?
I mean, I guess it's— I do get it because there wasn't that much actual sex talk in my sex ed, but why? Like, that's something that should be in sex ed. Like, I never heard that.
Oh, until you were here?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, like, I heard it from somewhere else, but it doesn't stick with you. You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll, you know, it's like, yeah, I get it why people don't think they should, but it is true that you don't— whether you're using condoms or not, you're using lube, you just had another So you just had sex, you had something else inside of you. Even after you use a vibrator.
Flush it out.
There's bacteria, flush it out, pee it out. It takes 2 seconds before you fall asleep. Just do it.
No, it's true. I'm gonna be better about it.
Yeah, yeah. Whenever I've gotten, oftentimes I've gotten a UTI, I can trace it, a lot of times trace it back to the old not peeing.
That and sex in like a jacuzzi or something.
Oh yeah, that too. Be very careful. Okay, don't do anal and then do anything else without cleaning up first. Okay, so anal is, I'm cool if anal is your first stop stop, but it has to be your last stop, and then shower, and then start over and do something else. You can't go from back to front. You got to clean up after anal because you can transfer that bacteria and it absolutely leads to infections, whether it's on your hands or genitals. So, you know, urethral licking, all that stuff, analing, everyone's been much more interested in anal play in a much more specific way, I think, not just anal sex. I feel like men and women are all like a lot more— straight men too are asking about playing with their anus and butt play. You stick your fingers in, your mouth, your penis, condoms. You gotta wash up after. You have to. Not enough. You can't put your finger in the butt and then inside or touching anything else. No.
Do people—
is it— this isn't common knowledge either.
Um, I mean, I would hope so. I think that we're helping a lot of people.
We can just even stop here with those three, but we've got a few more.
But no, but I think so. I mean, like, I I don't really dabble in the anal play as much, so I don't really have this, this issue. But I do think it's true. I don't know, this is gonna be kind of gross, but think about it. Like, you know, that's how you get pink eye is poo particles in your eye, like on your pillow or something. So think about that. That's just in your eye. Like, in your vagina or other places, it's not going to be good.
God, why'd you mention pink eye? You're right. I'm sorry, that used to happen. You put the cold compress on your head. Your eye— did you ever get pink eye?
Yeah, like when I was like younger.
Yeah. Okay, summer camp. So, you guys, yeah, anal, that's a thing. And also, here's the problem though, being a sex person, sex educator, when that happens to me, there's any anal play, I'm like, if it's my finger or anything, I'm like holding it off the bed, 'cause I just know you gotta wipe it down, you gotta wash it off. Like, there can't be any fecal matter around. Like, sex is, er, er, comes to a halt. That's why I think it's great to save anal play for the last thing. For the finale, if you will. End with the back end. Okay, avoid oral sex with unfamiliar partners. Um, I know this may not be popular, I know, but oral sex comes with a lot of STI risks. Okay, so this is not new news at all, none of this is, but to decrease risks, cover male genitals with a condom and female parts with a dental dam. I'll be honest, you guys, no one does this.
No, I, I don't do that.
No. There is a study that just came out about music festivals, which we're going to talk about. People having oral sex at music festivals all over the world. Like 46%, they just met, I guarantee you.
Yeah, and I doubt any of them are carrying dental dams.
No, they're not. No one— no, I've never even— literally, I've only seen dental dam when someone sent me one, and they are at stores. But the truth is, no one's gonna do this. But I'm just telling you, there's a risk and you got to be careful.
No, and I've heard, I've heard that actually, like, there's a lot more risks with that as far as like infections. And people only think that they're going to get infections like through like genital to genital Touching.
That's not true. Yes, there are risks. So, I think just, I don't know, you guys, I always think it's better to wait. Caution. Yeah, use caution, okay? Use caution, but don't say I didn't tell you. So, wear a condom during sex. We know this. They're the best way to prevent the spread of infections other than abstaining, and STIs unfortunately cannot be detected visually. Not all of them. Even if your partner seems clean and spick and span, spick and span. You ever speak and span?
I do.
They're clean and speak and span, you can eat off of it. Even if their genitalia looks so nice that you could just, there could be infection. Oh, wash up after sex.
Yes, okay, honestly, so think about it. Like when you're done with sex, it's like, even, I don't care, okay, it could be, I could touch a completely dry penis Afterwards, my hand smells like penis.
Yep.
You think that penis doesn't have a smell? Oh, it does.
It does. True.
And it's not that it doesn't— I like the smell of it. However, I don't kind of want it on my hands 3 hours later when I'm like, you know, especially if it's morning sex, I go to work, like I don't need to be bringing that.
No, honey. Thank you. We share like the coffee thing here.
Yeah, no, I wash my hands after. That's like more so after.
Good to know. Yeah, you guys, it's hygiene. You can have wipes by the bed too. I'm a fan of the wipes. Just wash up after. You just gotta do it. I know, but I know we all just want to fall over and go to roll over and go to sleep. Sex is messy and you'd be cool with that, but if you wash—
No, I like the wipes idea next to the bed.
Oh, you don't have those?
I do, but I like— Yeah, yeah, I need to keep them like super close to my bed.
Yeah, you do, like right there on the nightstand. It's amazing. And then you actually don't have to get up. You don't have a nightstand?
No, I have a table. You need—
you don't have drawers? I should give you this one that I just got that I'm not keeping because it doesn't have enough drawers. She has one drawer. Come over and get my one drawer nightstand. I did like 16 drawers. I literally do, um, with holes in the back to charge things. Although that's what the UV is for, our sex toy cleaning machine, our sex toy cleaner.
I could leave the wipes on top of the UV.
Well, because you do— exactly, you could. Or in the UV and take them out when you use them. Yeah, I store everything there. Do you use your UV?
I do.
I have like Well, I don't— the thing is so funny. So I do, but then I always move my, uh, Womanizer to go back underneath my pillow afterwards. Like, I don't store it in there, I keep it under my pillow. I like it close to me.
You could charge it there. Well, that's funny actually, because I'm reading— I didn't even know, but the next point is including you have to clean your sex toys right away. Don't leave your sex toys lying around dirty in a drawer or under the bed. Make a habit, carry them to the bathroom with you, um, so they get cleaned up after playtime. Because when you leave them out, it creates a biofilm of bacteria if not cleaned properly, which can create a risk of infection. And people don't realize that you can get a vaginal infection from an unclean toy. And Carrie, this is our good friend Carrie who started UV, which is a toy cleaning system. I don't know if we've talked about it like as much on the show in the last few shows, but it stores, cleans, sanitizes your toys and kills all 99.9% of all harmful bacteria. It's genius.
Yeah. And I put my phone in it.
I put my phone in it too. And my jewelry and my makeup brushes. Like every night.
Do you?
I'm actually getting a little bit, um, anal. It's the only word I can think of. Getting a little fastidious about my phone. I'm getting like trying to clean it off every night. I was doing the wipes, but now I just put it in there with my phone. My phone, my jewelry, it's all clean.
So there's a lot of stuff on your phone if you think about it. We take it with us everywhere.
We take our phone— is the dirtiest thing we own probably. And as women, our purses too.
Yeah. Oh, I didn't even think of that.
Yeah, don't put on your bed.
I don't. I always put them on the floor or on the chair, but I don't sit— I have a chair that I don't— no one sits on. It's just a storage chair.
That's good. Every room needs a storage chair, but that's— you should put it— you guys, just be clean.
I think this is good. I think this is good.
I actually— I feel a lot cleaner just for reading that. Okay, here's something else, Jaime. I wanted to go through and see what you think, see what the listeners think. Okay, women perceive men who extrovertly which is not really a word, but maybe it is here in this study, display their wealth as unsuitable partners for long-term relationships. So when a man throws money around in flashy cars, people apparently intuitively interpret this behavior as a sign he's more interested in short-term sexual relationships than in a romantic commitment. Hmm. Yeah. So if a guy's, you know, okay, this is, you've heard of men, what it means if men has a super flashy car.
Yeah, they're overcompensating.
Overcompensating for smaller—
smaller other attributes.
Smaller attributes. And it's always kind of a joke, kind of a, you know, we kind of make this dig at men, but it's interesting to say here that the study's saying that's actually, you know, that it's whenever they throw their money around on flashy cars or nice watches or all these things that women are just gonna perceive them, the study says, they're gonna perceive them as less able to be a great provider and assume that they are just looking for quick partners and looking for sex flings, flings for sex.
That is interesting because I, I like, I, I think for me, I just don't think it's super attractive when someone's flashing their cash around and making it seem like they're like this, you know, big deal in that way. Because to me, that just is like cocky and like, I just, I don't know, like that's all you have to offer is a lot of money. Which, I mean, don't get me wrong, like I would like I want to be taken out to like a super fancy restaurant dinner, but I don't want the person— like humbleness is like such more of an attractive quality. But I do find it interesting that they wouldn't be like a suitable life partner who can provide for their children because if they do have money, then like that's— it's just interesting.
Brad's right because you think that women are looking for— well, this is why I found the study kind of flawed because it says, but then I'll tell you my thoughts on this. First off, it says that women read They read the descriptions of two men or the groups. They read this, the groups read the descriptions of two men who were purchasing cars. So they rated each character on their dating and parenting behaviors. So one man that had, okay, so both men had the same budget. So one man was frugal and he like made this investment. He's like, I'm buying a new car, a really reliable new car. And the other guy got a used car, but spent a lot of money like flashing it up with paint and wheels and impressive sound systems like subwoofer, you know, something like that. And the women were like, you know, in the studies thought that the one who was more reliable would be better for a long-term commitment. And the one who was frugal— what is it? Okay. The flashy man was more attractive to women for brief sexual encounters. She thought, well, if he's doing all that stuff with the car, he's probably looking for a bunch of other women. But the man who was reliable obviously makes a good partner. Now I'm thinking if you're reading this, you're probably gonna be like, oh yeah, that's just not— that's not impressive at all. Like, he should probably— why is he spending all this money on things? But I think there's been many a woman who's been swept off her feet by a guy who drives by in a Maserati or Ferrari. Yeah, no, that's temporarily speaking. Yeah, or maybe a lot of women— some women really value that, and men, they value people who have— who spend a lot of money on things. But I think it's sort of like I think that we can kind of tell if a guy— I believe that I can tell if someone is leading with their car. Like, there's always these little nuanced things that guys do with their watch, or their, you know, men wear like flashy watches, or their car. And you can tell if they're like on purpose like picking you up, or they're making a show of their car, they're really impressed by it. When they're leading by the things that they own, like I've had guys who had nice houses, like, oh, I want you to come see my house, or let me pick you up, or let me I talk to you about all these things that I own because I think that there are women who are measuring guys by how much money they make and what they can provide. But I guess I feel that I've just never personally as a woman found that really attractive of a guy spending more time just trying to— I can feel it. You can feel it out.
It's not, it's, it's not genuine.
It doesn't seem genuine.
What I think is, I don't, and I don't know if this is always true, not that I've ever been gone out with someone that has something like a Maserati, but when a guy has a not as flashy car, just kind of a practical regular car, more likely to get out and open the car door for me than a guy that has a nicer car.
Really? Yeah, I think you're right.
And I don't know why that is. I don't know if they—
because they don't open the doors. Do cars still not open that are old cars to you? You got to lift up a thing? No, it doesn't exist anymore.
But I mean, no, I mean, I just feel like— I don't know if that's just because the guy in the nicer car is like, well, 'Well, I obviously am awesome because I have a nice car, so you can open the car.' And not that I need someone to open the car door for me.
I don't need that. But some guys really do. It's so nice when men are gentlemen or gentlemen. Yeah, I think you're right.
'Oh my God, you got out, you put the car in park, and you got out and you went around.' Like, I think, right?
And here's the other thing I want to say to guys. I think that women, if they're just going to date you for the car because you have these nice things, it means that you feel that you have to lead with that. And how does that feel to you too? So I think that guys should just work on their inside, just like women. Work on being a really good person inside and outside is important. But when I moved to LA, I actually went out with a guy with him. This is how not a car person I am. And he had a Maserati, but it doesn't say Maserati on the inside. And I didn't— okay, our first date he picked me up, he didn't have a Maserati. And I guess the second date he did. And I didn't notice, you know me, any change. And he's like, we dropped, we went to the restaurant. He's like, did you notice my new car? I'm like, I actually didn't. And he's like, you didn't see that? Like, that's a big deal for many a person, many women. But then I got back in it, it doesn't say Maserati on the inside. Like I got into the car, it was dark out and maybe I should know, but I wasn't impressed. And I think he was trying to impress.
Thought that I would be impressed. He's like, I only rented this car for you.
He's like, I rented this, I have to get it back in 3 hours. I'm like, not impressed. Not saying that some women would be. He did take me for a good, yeah, I don't know. Okay, so, All right. Oh my God. Yeah, it's funny, right? I did not know. Inside the Secret Lives of Millennials. God, we can't get enough of millennials and sex. It's all we seem to study here lately. That's me. You're the millennial. So Jamie, I, I asked you here today for a reason. This is the Skin Condom Survey. We talked about this a few weeks ago on the show, but here's some other stats I think are quite interesting. I want to know what you think about this. Sex is more important than Starbucks.
Duh.
Yeah, anytime someone's like, no, I really look forward to my latte instead of sex, there's something really going on there.
Totally.
Okay, but this is one of those silly 80% of respondents say they give up coffee for sex. I hope.
I get that.
Okay, how about the old adage, no glove, no love, is still very much in effect? Do you find that to be true? That 60% of respondents are using condoms always, most of the time, or sometimes? And 73% of singles and 70% of those in casuals use condoms always or most of the time.
Um, so I mean, I've been seeing the same person for quite a while now, but when I was having more casual sex, I was always the person with the condom. So I mean, I guess from my point of view, like, yeah, we, you know, you use it because I don't know you or where your penis has been. Um, also though, And I'm not— look, I know it's a double standard to think that men should be the ones carrying the condoms, but I just thought it was just odd that I had to be the one all the time to say, hey, let me grab the condom. I only had one guy that was always so good about it, just always like had them, was ready for it.
That's good. You always had to have them? You always had them on you?
Yeah, like I always had lube and—
good for you— condoms, little backpack, little fanny pack of lube and Yeah, like all the time.
And if I wasn't having sex and my friend was going to, I'd be like, here you go.
If there's one thing, I think that's amazing, Jaime. You are setting a good example because this study also says that women are taking charge, that men are longer expected to supply the condoms, and that is super positive. And so I think that one of the results that really sticks out is that women are taking their sexual health seriously and they are bringing the condoms along. And I just hope that there are some women listening to this who realize that like, yes, when you're leaving at night and you put in your lip gloss, your keys, you know, your ID, throw in a condom. So easy to do.
Yeah, and I think it is important for all people to carry it, but at the same time, there's a little part of me that I'm just like, that's just one more thing guys get to be lazy about.
Right, but they will be. And men, women are lazy too. I think that there's, okay, I know what you're saying, but it hasn't happened to the point yet where women are even taking the initiative that much.
That's true.
And I think that if women just leave it up to men, just from what I know talking to, I guess, a lot of people of all ages, I don't think just millennials, that there's a lot of times where, I guess we're talking about heterosexual couples, but I'm sure it's everywhere, that there's always one partner. You can't always rely on someone to have condoms. There has to be both of you have to be thinking about it because you're more likely to be protected, I guess is what I'm saying.
True.
I just wish one time, like, it'd be like, 1, 2, 3, and you both pull one out. That would be so cool.
That would be so cool. But I feel like talking to young people, they're like, oh, well, he didn't ask and I didn't know. I think that there's still the way of dueling condoms. Which one is the better one? I think that condom use is fun. I think that condoms get a bad rap.
That would be so fun.
I know. And there's like the variety packs of condoms. Like, you could try, like, Skin makes the, and Lifestyles makes the variety packs.
Yeah.
You could try like 6 different kinds. In a, you know, to see which ones you like. I think that you shouldn't assume, just like you shouldn't assume anything about your sexual, your sex life, like that certain things are gonna always feel the same way and things change over time. If you, you might just not have found the condom that you like the most because penises are different sizes and they have different feelings to them and you might be allergic to latex, which is why skin condoms are great. So keep shopping around for condoms, but definitely use them. Double standards. We love our double standards. They're alive and well, apparently. Double standards alive and well. When it comes to how we perceive female sexuality, we haven't made as much progress as we'd like to think. When asked how they perceive a woman with multiple sex partners, 54% said they'd review her negatively. God, how are we still having these conversations? When men have multiple partners, they throw them a party. Who's judging? I'm happy everyone's having sex, but women are harder on each other.
Yeah, and I think, I don't know, Just, I've just been thankful, I guess, that at my age and the people that I associate with, it is not looked down upon.
So that's true.
It kind of, it just depends. I think it depends on how you grew up and how you grew up, where you grew up, and who you hang out with. Exactly.
Because you can find your people that are just as sex positive and open as you are. I can guarantee you I probably don't have the same friends in my life that I had when I started the show. There might have been some people that I don't know, not obviously really close friends that were like, oh no, I really don't want to be around all that sex talk. And, you know, you could find your people that would not judge you. And if there are where you've close women friends, you're like, that's really slutty, or that's whatever they're saying to you, they're not your people. I think those aren't your friends. Exactly. Older people are kinkier. Older millennials are kinkier. I guess older people in general. With age comes more kink. Um, older respondents aged 30 to 36 are using kinkier sexual accessories, 42% incorporating anal beads, 37% handcuffs, 42% are videotaping sexual encounters. I hope they're deleting them right after. And using whips. I think that makes sense.
I think so. Yeah, I mean, it's— you're just probably by that point, depending on how many sexual encounters you've had, it's more likely that you've had more or you feel more comfortable by that time. And so you're like, okay, now that I finally got the basics down, let's switch it up. Let's add some whips.
It's true. And I have to say that that's a really good point, that it's— when you're 20s, maybe you have more friends that are judging you or that are going to be thinking about how many people you've slept with. And I don't think that is the case when you get older. You just don't have those people. You don't care. You don't have those people around you that you think are not going to have your back.
Yeah.
So I think you can make those choices too in your 20s. And if you hear people who are— listen, if you've got a group of friends, if you've got friends who are always gossiping about each other, like let's say in your group of friends and you have one friend who's always talking about another friend and you're wondering, is she or he talking about you? I guarantee they are.
Probably they are.
And it's okay if it's like light, fun stuff, like, oh yeah, she's always late, hahaha. And you'd say the same thing to your friend's face. But if you have friends who are like toxic and they're gossiping everyone in the group it's probably not the healthiest friendship group. It's something I learned.
That's a good life lesson.
Literally, I can't hang out with those peeps. It just, yeah, doesn't feel good. Go towards the light, people. All right, thanks, Jane.
Of course. Glad to be here.
Bottom line, I guess my takeaway, and I'm quoted in this article, so I will quote my quote, it's that sex But this is good news. I love that they're having sex multiple times a week and that they're satisfied with their sex lives. And I think this extends to a lot of our listeners as well.
Mm-hmm.
Okay. Let's get onto the show.
Thanks for having me, Emily.
Okay. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, I'm getting into your calls. Okay. Now we're going to get onto your calls and I love answering your questions. It's why I exist. Why am I here on the planet? If you have a question you want me to answer on the show, text Ask Emily, all one word, to 797979. Fill out the short form, or you can go to my website, sexwithemily.com, click on the Ask Emily tab. And if you want to be called, which I love, it's simple. Just enter yes on the would you like to be called question, and please include your name, your age, where you live, and how you listen to the show. Thanks. We have Jay. He's 38 from Seattle and he's in an open relationship. His wife lost interest in him, lost trust, and he still, still wants to be with her and in an open relationship. Hey Jay.
Hi there.
Hi. Okay, tell me, tell me a little history here. What's going on?
So my wife and I, we have been married for 8 years and we've been together for about 14, which is basically our entire adult lives. We're both in our late 30s. About a year ago, we started talking about an open relationship so that we could explore sex with other people. In hindsight, we didn't really set a lot of explicit boundaries or even goals for what we were trying to accomplish. We just thought we wanted to have sex with other people. We knew we were married and that spark wasn't exactly like a major driver in our marriage. Um, after a few months, I would say it really kind of blew up. Um, one thing she has acknowledged in hindsight is that she fell in love with one of the people that she started to see. She really fell hard for him, and that drove a big wedge in between us.
Understandably.
I'm not super interested in the polyamory lifestyle, having learned a lot about it now and having read a lot. Um, she says, and she's insistent, and I believe her, that she loves being— but more, more as a partner as a, as a friend, and I don't generate the butterflies for her that this new relationship did. Um, so we're struggling through that. We're seeing a therapist, and we're doing a lot of reading and listening to podcasts and things like this. Um, but the way that she sees it is that she has a real attraction problem towards me, and I don't have much of an interest in a wife who is just a roommate. So we're trying to figure out ways that we can build some excitement in our marriage and look at, um, non-monogamy as a way of adding something to our marriage rather than replacing something that's missing.
Right, right. No, thank you. That was, that was, that was good. I totally get the background now, Jay. Um, well, first of all, it sounds like it's been rough a little bit to hear that and to, to kind of open up with these possibilities and then kind of hear that, that she fell in love with someone. I understand that that's, that is not going to be easy. But what I can say is I like that you're saying that you're that you're seeing a therapist and you guys are trying to make it work right now. And also that you're, you're understanding that in relationships, attraction can ebb and flow. And so she's saying now she's not attracted to you. And, you know, but I think that there are ways that couples can kind of tap back into that initial chemistry and reconnect with each other. But the challenge here is that what you did, what a lot of couples do, they think, well, there's a problem. We probably just want to have sex with someone else. And they just go out and they do it and they don't. And you're like a lot of couples. We don't know any better because we don't have a lot of great models for how to do this and how to have an open relationship. But typically couples would discuss ahead, they'd have rules or they should have rules and boundaries. And, you know, if things like there's a certain number of days a week that you could see somebody else and how much are you allowed to sleep over, or do you want to know everything or do you want to know nothing? And so I think couples realize this as they go along. They like, first of all, they talk ahead of time, like how would it feel if this happened? And you try to do your best to kind of think about what might feel right to you. And then you go ahead and it's kind of, trial and error, right? Trial by fire. Because this typically can happen, that someone gets hurt. They're like, oh, I, I didn't want to know everything happening with you. I just was okay if you had sex, right? Like, so you get to— each couple gets to decide their own boundaries and rules. So you guys kind of blew past that, and so now you're trying to like maybe still have an open relationship and to, to build. So, um, I think that if I were you, I would take off the, the open relationship out of the table right now. Would I take other partners away and just try to kind of rebuild what you guys have? And if you can work with a counselor, are you guys working with someone who kind of specializes in this or who works with couples who have dealt with open relationships or alternative relationships?
Yeah, it took us a while to find the right person. We had gone to see a couple of just general marriage counselors and honestly, like the first two people that we saw sat there with stunned looks on their faces and basically openly acknowledged that it was out of their depth, but we are seeing somebody now who's a lot more comfortable with like the less vanilla aspects of relationships. We are on hold on the open relationship front while we work on ourselves. And that's something that has continually been a challenge in that she acknowledges that she has these longing feelings where she misses this other— the other guy. That's a real challenge for both of us. I know that she feels that way and she feels that way. So we're just— we struggle through that and we're working on it. We're trying— we're just trying to find a way forward where we can— where I can have trust in her that she's not going to just run off with somebody else and that she feels as though she's not just trying to plug something that's missing in her life.
Right. Well, that's often what happens because I'm sure she's, you know, obviously you guys are still very much in love, but what happens when it's kind of like she had an affair even though you kind of knew it was happening, but we tend to attach to someone who brings something new and different than what our partner brings. So you could be doing everything wonderful, same way you always did, but this guy presented some variety and something different. So I doubt that it's really about him and it's more about you know, what was kind of lacking in your relationship on both sides. So if you guys are kind of rebuilding that, you guys are really looking into what, you know, what turned you both on and what, like, sexually, how you guys can connect, reconnect again and learn, kind of rebuild and find out what turned you both on. And like, start with touch, take sex off the table. Like, there's different exercises and stuff you can do. Um, but as far as like building trust, that's also something that I love that you're in therapy, because a lot of couples think, well, he apologized, she apologized after you know, something happens and we can move on. But trust is— can be tricky to rebuild. So I think that, um, continuing to see the therapist, even it feels like it's, you know, kind of a drain, is something that you really, you know, have to— have to stick with it. And I can't tell you what the future brings for you guys, but I would say that, um, that sticking with therapy and really like that, that really honest, honest communication about what you both truly want— and now you— now even though you're going backwards, you kind of figure out what does it look like for for you? Like, would you still be okay if she was sleeping with someone but it wasn't this guy eventually down the road, you know? And what is, you know, what is she— what does she want from you sexually? How was sex in the beginning with you guys? I'm sorry, when was the last time sex was really great with you guys? Do you remember when you guys had that connection?
You know, that's one of the things that has been confounding through this whole process is that we still have sex and we still have what I would, or what I had always thought of as, um, good sex. I don't know about great sex. I don't know that we've ever felt great sex, and part of that is the lack of—
Okay, so what would it be? So I think you guys could do a fun, like, what, what does great sex look like to her? Like, have you guys ever had that conversation where you break it down and you're like, let's talk about what feels good to you, what feels good to me, you know? Let's write down some things we want to try and discuss them. I mean, I think you guys are— you don't even probably have to write them down. You can have a great conversation where you're like, What's the best sex you ever had? What's the most memorable sex that we had together? How can we build on it? What are her fantasies? Does she masturbate? What does she think about? What do you think about? Because this is the fun part. Like, if you go into it not like it's a dread, like, oh God, we got to rebuild it. And you'd be like, no, let's wipe a clean slate if we can. And let's start talking about sex again from a really honest, open place of discovery, discovery and curiosity about what could, what is possible for our sex life. What could we do that would feel good to both of us? Because if you lay things on the table, you kind of negotiate and figure out what works for you both. And just that process of talking about it and getting closer could actually be the fuel that you need to rekindle your sex life together.
Yeah, I think we've seen some positive steps in, in that direction. And it's something that the therapist really pushes is these activities where you, uh, go through checklists and you, you, um, are kind of guided through the process of trying to discover what works for you. One of the, one of the, um, disappointing parts of the process is that I often find myself feeling as though I'm all in on it, that I'm super anxious and willing to talk about these things, which we'd never talked about before. Like, we never talked about kinks or the less mainstream things that we're into, but she's often quite resistant to it. And the way that she explains it is that it's kind of like talking to your cousin about these things, and that's something that's really challenging to listen to and to hear. So I think what you're saying is you just have to keep doing it and keep keep plugging away.
And I think you've got to be tough then. Now here's the thing, Jay, I want you to really stand up and ask for like what you really want and what you, what you really need. Like, that's kind of— that doesn't feel good when she says, you know, you feel like a cousin and whatever, like not giving you the, you know, like if she keeps putting that on, that's really hard for you to move, to move, to move forward with this. Like, that's, that's hurtful and that will shut you down. So you can let her know, like, when you say that, you know, it doesn't, doesn't feel great to me. So I understand that right now we're not connected, but let's talk about what could connect us 'Cause if she's living in the past and she thinks that this guy's gonna come in and he's gonna make everything great 'cause she had a great little fling with some guy who wasn't you because it was variety, you know, if she really wants to make it work, then she's gonna have to try something else here as well. And that's gonna be putting aside all these, all the past and all the things, but really trying to come at it from a new perspective, like clean slate where you guys are at now and how you can move forward. 'Cause just know that you get to stand up too because right now, Jay, you can't move forward like you, all this stuff has already happened in the past and there's no way that you can move. You can go back to how it was and you have to like, uh, build a healthy, um, you have to pave a healthy path moving forward right now. And you cannot hold back either, Jay, because if you, you're going, you're doing the work, but if you feel like she's not meeting you and she's not doing the work and she's just like, oh, you feel like a cousin and da da da, then you've, you have to have her give yourself a time limit too. Like if in 3 months from now or 6 months from now and you're in therapy and you keep going and you feel like there's no progress on her part, you get to stand up for yourself and say, I've tried here. Like, it's, you know, you'll know when the time is right, but you need her to be participating in this as well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The status quo is quite unappealing. It's very, it's terrifying to think about the status quo of just like floating through this forever and ever and ever where it feels like work. And I think what you said earlier really resonates. And it's something that I've said a few times that I don't want it to be work. I don't like, I know that there's an element of work to every relationship, but I don't want the stuff that's supposed to be fun to feel like it. Right.
Put the fun back into your sex life. Like, kind of make it lighter. Like, if she's making it more serious, you've got to kind of just come together on this and make it so it's not as much— it's fun work, I guess. It's the fun kind of homework. But also, what happens in these kind of things, years could go by. So I'm telling you, whatever the date is now, look at your calendar and how do you want to feel 3 months from today, and put that date in your calendar. It could be private or whatever, and just say, I want to feel blank. Because we need these milestones, because it will go by and things won't change, and you'll forget where you're at. But if, like, if you have a goal, just like a business, you want to reach a point. And with therapy and all this, you want to feel a different way with her. And so I think you can start setting that with her. Okay, let me know how it goes, Jay. You're doing the right things here. Just be strong and speak your part because you have nothing to lose at this point. Everything to gain, but being even more honest. Okay, bye, Jay. Have a great night.
Thank you.
Bye.
Take care.
Bye-bye.
I love talking to people about their open relationships and alternative relationships, and I think that people are a lot more open right now in is the time, you guys, more than ever. I think it's because we don't see a lot of models of, of healthy alternative relationships and how they work that we're just thinking like, if we don't want monogamy, something's wrong with us. Then we try to blindly suffer through monogamy. But for some couples like Jay, you can see it's not that it's necessarily going to be easy, like, hey, let's go sleep with other people. He made one of the biggest mistakes and common mistakes that people make when they're trying to open up, and that's like, oh, it must be about the sex. It's actually the thing that you do last. You don't just jump into sleeping with someone. The first thing you do is you gotta lay these ground rules and where we at and set boundaries. I hope this is helpful for people. And we're also gonna start having some more experts on the show to talk about it. 'Cause I think it's really, it's not this ridiculous pie in the sky thing that doesn't work for anybody. I actually know people who are in healthy relationships and I'd love to help people get there and hear your stories as well. We have Rebecca, she's 25 from Texas and her new partner does not cuddle after sex, but she wants to connect. I feel you, Rebecca. I've been there. Hi. Thanks for calling.
Hi.
Hi. Tell me what's going on. You're so welcome. So, tell me what's going on with the cuddling.
Yeah.
So, me and this guy have recently started dating. It's really new, probably less than 2 months. The connection outside of the bedroom is really awesome, and the sex is good. But after, he just turns around and there's no cuddling, there's really no pillow talk. And I've tried to engage with him, I've tried to, you know, cuddle and be the big spoon, even though that's not so much my favorite thing. And he doesn't engage. And I'm just curious kind of what strategies for communication you suggest so that the next time it doesn't feel forced. I don't want him to feel uncomfortable, but that is something that, you know, I do I do like.
I get it, honey. No, I get it. I've been there, and to me it's like a deal— like, I find that a deal-breaker. Like, if I don't feel like— I've had new guys I've slept with, and if they fall asleep and they roll over, we're not touching in some way, or we didn't, I feel like I'm alone. I need to leave. Like, I need it. You're probably like— I totally get it. So have you let him know that it's important to you? Have you been like, oh, I want to cuddle, I love cuddling, let's cuddle? Have you ever just come out and said that?
Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting. After a date we had a few weeks— like a week ago, I just kind I kind of brought it up. I was like, do you like being touched? You know, and I kind of brought it up with love languages.
Oh, good. Perfect.
My love language is, is with, with touch. But, um, uh, he was, he was a little shy about the topic, so I'm not sure if maybe it's like a touchy, a touchy subject for him.
Right. No pun intended or not intended. Right. Okay. I mean, it's so, um, and you, did you ever bring it up in the bedroom? Like right after sex, we ever like, did you ever just kind of like roll into his arms and be like, oh my God, I love cuddling, you smell so good, can we— let's cuddle for a few. Have you ever just really just done it, like put his arm around you and tried it? Like take the initiative.
Yeah.
Like have you ever grabbed him and wrapped his arms around you? Like I've done that, I've full-on been like, you're not touching me right now, we need to touch.
Right, no, no, I haven't done that. That's a good idea. I should, because I think I've done it like, you know, in the morning when I wake up, and try to like engage. And yeah, maybe I should do it right after.
Yeah, I think right after, because when you want it, like, don't expect that he's not doing it. Because even though you might have told him when you're driving or another— when you're out at dinner, guys sometimes they just don't hear it. They have to hear it a few times, or it really might not be his thing. So sometimes instead of just— you've already told him— I think the next time you have sex, you can just like touch his hand, hug him, grab his arm, put it around you, and just look up and and smile and be like, it feels good to have your arm around me, you know? And just see, he's not gonna like pull it away. And you can just like, oh, it feels so good. And just kind of reinforce it and let him know like, this is what feels good. Because he might just not, and who knows, maybe you said it once and he's thinking, uh-oh, I'm really bad at cuddling. Like, you know, guys, we all get into our heads during sex. So if he doesn't still, like I've had guys who are like, okay, then they're like pat, pat, pat, and then they roll over. Like they're like, like they're burping me or something. And that's when, if they do that enough, I'm like, no, I need cuddling. I, to me, it is a deal breaker. Like there are some people who don't love touch and that's not, it is my love language as well. Like words of affirmation, physical touch. If you don't tell me I'm sexy and touch me and hug me, I'm probably, I'm out. You know, at least one of those I need most, you know, often. Yeah.
Yeah. So that was kind of the, the, the second part of my question was when do I tap out since it is pretty new, I'm not crazily invested. Interested yet.
Oh, don't tap out yet.
Let's see, this is something that I need, right?
Okay, so this is what I want to tell you. You like them, you have good chemistry, right, Rebecca? So I think— I mean, I love that you're 25 years old because what a great time for you to learn these skills, how to communicate and how to experience this, because you have nothing to lose at this point and everything to gain. Maybe you find out that he's like a latent cuddler and he really does like it, but one time a girl told him he was a bad cuddler. Who knows what it is? Or maybe he realizes that he know he liked it so much until you. Maybe he, who knows what, why he doesn't like touch. There's a lot of different reasons, but for all we know, what's possible is that he might be like, oh my God, I do love cuddling. I never knew it. Cause you're both, you know, is he your age as well? Like in his 20s?
And so yeah, he's a few years older, but yeah.
I mean, I'm just saying that you can get to, you get to go in there without shame. It doesn't, it just makes you look like a woman, a strong, confident woman who knows what you want and you might have to do it. And see how he reacts. If he's like, "Nah, I can't really deal with touching," well then you know. Or if he's like, "Oh, this does feel good," like see how it goes. And don't be frustrated if it doesn't happen the next time, because you're gonna have to try this a few times. But I'm not gonna let you see him and not try something, because this is how you move forward and how you learn communication. Because if you tried a few times, you're like, "That felt so good," and the next time you see him, you're like, "I can't wait to be in your arms tonight," you know, not in a— or however you want to do it, and see what happens after a few times. If it's If it's still not satisfying to you, you can say, "Babe, I really need the cuddling. Like, it feels really good." Tell me, you know, and just kind of get some more information. But you're going to know in a few weeks, a few times of seeing him, if he can kind of come over to your side and be good, be a reciprocal cuddler or not. And for some guys, they just don't want to be touched. And some women don't either. So, you can find this out sooner than later rather than spending a year hoping he reads your mind. Right.
Totally. No, I love that idea. Thank you so much.
You're so welcome, Rebecca. Okay, good. I can't wait to hear. Thanks. Have a good night. Bye, Rebecca.
Awesome.
You too.
Bye. I love a good cuddler. I mean, really, you guys, it's true that it doesn't make you a bad person here. If you don't like touch and you don't like cuddle, that is totally fine. There's— you're not broken, you're not wrong, but you gotta be with a person who's cool with it or who doesn't like, doesn't require cuddling. And the main thing I wanna drive home here is that we often think that because we said something once or we even showed them once and we didn't get what we wanted, that we might as well just throw in the towel or nothing's working. But think about how you've all learned something, a new skill, a new habit, or you finally heard your partner. I'll bet the first time you broke through something wasn't the first time you heard it. It's very rare we hear something once and everything changes. It takes communication. People learn different ways. So he might need to talk to you, you know, her boyfriend might, or this guy she's sleeping with might need to hear it, might need to be demonstrated. But no matter what way you go about it, Make sure that you consistently communicate what you— what your needs are, and then you can make a decision or not whether you should stay or go. We have Jared, 25, from Brooklyn, and he was seeking clarification if women are uncomfortable orgasming for the first time with a new partner. What about using toys? Hey Jared, I'm here to help. How you doing?
Good, how are you? I know I really, uh, appreciate you taking my call. Um, you make my commute much better every day.
I appreciate it.
I love that. Get you in a good mindset for work. Ah, tell me what's going on.
Yes, absolutely. So there's this, um, girl that I've recently been seeing, and, you know, we're both very open, but every time she gets close to orgasming, there seems to be some sort of like mental block. She just can't. I know she's also the type of girl that can only, um, come clitorally, and she says, uh, with penetration, she really can't come. So, I'm just wondering if it's a matter of her feeling comfortable or, you know, I know some girls are tricky, but it's frustrating because I always like, you know, giving it to the girl first.
That's great. She comes first. You know, the right philosophy. So, you guys have been together a few times, you said?
Yes, correct.
And she, now like most women, the majority of women, we require clitoral stimulation to orgasm, and a lot of women can orgasm during intercourse. So, first of all, do you know that she's orgasmed before? Are you certain?
No, we've talked about it. She says usually she's the only one that can make herself come.
Okay, that's common too.
Yes.
So, okay, so at least we know that she has, and probably with her fingers or with a toy because it's during masturbation. So I would just say, like, tell me— I mean, if you guys are comfortable, and even if you're not, try this. How do you masturbate? Masturbate together. Mutual masturbation could be a great way so you can see exactly what she does if she's into that. Or say like, I don't want to— I want to make you come. Like, tell me how we can work together on your orgasm. Um, show me what you do. Or, you know, if you said you asked about like using a toy, ask her if she— what she uses. Or say, I'd love to see you touch yourself. That'd be so hot to see you masturbate. Have you guys gotten to the point where you feel comfortable talking to her like this about this?
Yeah, definitely. No, we're again, we're both very open and we tried experimenting a little bit and she got very close one time, but then just something happened.
That happened.
Yes, we were too.
Okay.
I don't know, some type of distraction.
Yeah, there was like a fire alarm. What about oral sex?
Oh yes, no, I, I, um, no, I love performing that on her. Um, and that's when she, um, gets really close to coming, right? Um, But again, there's some sort of a mental block.
Here's a few things. First of all, we don't— there's a lot of women who haven't a lot at all with a partner. She might never have with a partner. And I'm telling you that this is common for young women and for actually women of all ages. But I was related to her when I was in my 20s. It was really hard for me with a partner. And women assume that they just never will. They're like, this is how I am. I can't do it with a partner. But it's because she hasn't had experience yet, right? Being with someone where she's totally comfortable maybe and feels like she can actually go there and let go and feel safe. So what I would say is a few options. Options here. If you say she gets close when you go down on her, maybe you need to reassure her that you're not going anywhere, that she should just lay back and you, you're not, you have all night. Because for me, when I used to stop guys, even when it felt good, and I think a lot of women can kind of, are probably listening, nodding their head, is that we feel like it's taking too long. He doesn't really want to do it. Like, oh my God, it's, we look at the clock next to us and be like, it's been 18 minutes, 19 minutes. You know, like we're so like, we're such givers and we worry that you're going to think. So if you just kind of say, I want you to relax. Or even you take sex off the table and you're like, tonight's all about your pleasure. Like, I want you to orgasm. Like, bring your toys over, bring your lube, or I want to come over. Like, let's focus on you because I'm seeing you come would be so hot. And just letting her like know that it's like— and if she doesn't want to and she says, no, I'm embarrassed, whatever, you know, then you don't keep pushing it in one night. But you've already laid the groundwork. And, um, and also, you know, you know her better than I do. You might just want to say, let's talk about it too. Like, I would love to to see it, how would you most feel comfortable, like, exploring your orgasm with me? You know, so you could kind of, um, because it's important to you and tell you, you've just been thinking about it. You think it'd be really hot and you wanted her to do whatever it can or help explore with her. So how does that sound?
No, no, that sounds, that sounds perfect. That's, um, definitely something I'm gonna take into consideration next time.
Good.
Very open.
Cool.
And I really appreciate that feedback.
Okay, you're so welcome, Jared. I love it. I love that you're open and I love that you understand and you want to please her. So let me know how it goes. I will follow up.
Okay, absolutely.
Okay, call me after she orgasms. Bye, Jared. Have a great night.
Bye.
You guys, when I say call me back and let me know, I mean it. Like, I really— now I'm like gonna go to bed thinking about Jared and his girlfriend. I mean, not in that way, but like, did she come yet? Here's the thing, you guys, I hope you heard that, that it's true that for women, like, a lot of studies have shown, and I know this to be true, that we just— we want to feel safe, we want to feel comfortable with our partner. We want to know that we're like with someone who's really into our pleasure. And also, girls, women, we got to help our partner out too, because our partners are not mind readers. And I think, I don't know, when I was younger, I would think that just someone would figure it out. And so I needed to kind of work with them and need to work on my own self with masturbation, figuring out what made me feel good so I could have that orgasm. You know, there was a time, like I said, I could only do it myself, and then I was with a partner. I was like, okay, let's work together. I want to have an orgasm with you and let's figure it out. And it was fun because we were on the journey together. So just communication, keep getting deeper into what the challenge is, and then you work through it and it's explosive orgasms for all. We have Amanda. She's 22 from Australia and her friends are overprotective and slut-shaming. Hi, Amanda.
Hi.
Hi, I'm good. I'm so glad we're talking now, all the way in Australia. Let me know how I can help you here.
Um, well, it's actually his friends.
His friends, right? Boyfriend's friends. Okay.
Yeah, have kind of slut-shaming me. So it's more to do with the fact of I'm a very outspoken and curious person. That's how I found your page, um, you know, 6 years ago when I actually found your podcast.
So glad.
And I've always been— yeah, I've always been very curious about, you know, I guess exploring more of myself and relationships and everything. And at 22 now I'm very much very still quite open about it. And the thing is, is that a lot of his friends are very conservative and they're concerned that I'm changing him into something that he's not. And it's very hard because the thing is, I know this side of him who is as curious as I am, but at the same time, it's, you know, he doesn't tell anybody about it because that's not you know, that's not him. He's not as outspoken as I am, right?
So yeah, how did the slut-shaming start? Yeah, your concern is that his friends are kind of saying things about you.
Yeah, they want, they want him to break up with me. Okay, over it.
Over what though? Like, what did they hear and what happened? Yeah, tell me the incidents.
Okay, so the main, probably what started it all was, um, I had signed up to a swingers club when I was with my ex-boyfriend, and it was something that I was always curious in, but my boyfriend at the time was very anxious about doing that. Okay. I got an email from the swingers club that I signed up to saying, you know, we have an information session on swinging. And I kind of joked around with my current boyfriend. We had been only seeing each other for like 6 months. It wasn't something that I was bringing to the relationship as of yet because I'm his first serious kind of girlfriend.
Okay.
And he was like, He was like, let's go. And I was like, okay, well, look, I don't want to pressure you into it. You know, this is, this is totally your call. And he goes, no, forward me the email. I'm really interested. This is something that I've always wanted to try. Great, let's try it. So he actually bought the tickets and organized the event and organized dinner and everything like that. And when I mentioned to his friends about, you know, going to the club on the Friday because they invited us out to to something or whatever. I said, oh no, we're going into the city for dinner and a presentation. What's the presentation about? Kind of, um, foot-in-mouth kind of thing. And just went, oh, it's about swinging. And they kind of—
yeah, okay, they were just— to me, right? Okay.
And then they basically turned around and changed the conversation completely. After they left me, they rang him up and started saying, oh, you know, what's this, um, Amanda wants to sleep with other people, you know, basically blew it totally out of proportion. His response was, that's who she is, right? And it's very hard because all of his friends are telling me that I'm weird and outspoken, and I don't really want to go back to that shy, quiet girl that I know.
You don't, and you got to find a partner. So he's got to stick up for you, um, and he's young, it's his first relationship, and these are his best friends who probably don't like him being in a relationship at all. This is how dudes get sometimes. They're like, "Hey, you used to always hang out with us. Now you're always with Amanda. Now we found a way to even like to kind of chastise your girlfriend and slut shame her so you'll come back to us and watch sports and hang out because we miss you because you have a girlfriend." So this is kind of like a common thing that happens with young guys and old, honestly, men of all ages and women. We love our friends and we don't want them to leave us and go fall in love and do other things, especially if we're not in love. Some people are like, oh, they get envious. So is he protecting you in this situation? What's he saying back to his friends about you?
Um, so what happened was I've kind of turned around and gotten in a little bit of an argument with a couple of his friends, and he's seen the messages and he's gone, dude, stop talking to me about this issue. If you have a problem with it, talk to Amanda, because I'm not fighting her battle. She doesn't want me to fight her battles for me. Um, because again, at the same time, I don't want him fight fight my battles for me, right? But he just gets so angry and frustrated. He's like, oh, my friends are crap. I know my friends are crap, but there's nothing I can do to change it, right? And it's very frustrating because they're still—
How long have you guys been together, Amanda?
We've been together for about 10 months now, last November.
All right. And I mean, you obviously don't have to change at all. I mean, you said you're a sex-positive person, you know, and you want to be surrounded by other sex-positive people. This is what happens. Happens. Like, when you're sex positive, you are a tolerant, progressive person, environment, but, you know, it has progressive attitudes towards sex and sexuality. So that's the kind of world you want to be in. And I'm sorry that you have to fight these battles with his friends, but you're not doing anything wrong at all, and he's consenting. So if there's a way you can just kind of like spend time away from his friends— like, there's nothing you're gonna do to pull him away from his friends, but you can let him know that it's, you know, that you won't tolerate that kind of talk. And I would also say like I would kind of ignore them. Like, the fighting with— you're never going to get there because it's not even about— you know, it's like, you're not going to get them off and go, oh, you're right, yeah, swinger, let's go with you to a party. Like, it's probably not even about this. They would find something else. And even if it is, it doesn't matter. Many people don't understand more progressive ways of thinking about sex. And I think you got to stick with who you are, and you don't want to change who you are at your core for a guy. So either he has to learn how to maybe find other friends— and I'm being serious now because because sometimes we change, we grow apart from our friends. And if this is— if he's someone who's a little more open and progressive and liberal, he might find that these friends from high school or childhood just don't serve him in that same way. But you shouldn't be subject to this abuse at all, um, because you're not a slut, you know. It's— you're very open sexually, and that's threatened. So they're threatened by you for a lot of level— for a lot of reasons. And I think you're the big— they are like— because you're taking away— who knows, they're jealous that you're taking away from you. They're jealous. They probably don't have a girl like you who wants to go to a swinger party or who's more open sexually. I don't— it doesn't— like, I'm less concerned about them and more concerned about you standing up for who you are and not having to change and not going back to that girl that doesn't even exist anymore because you're the Amanda you are today and you've done work.
Sorry to interrupt, I just don't want to, um, I guess say that to him to make him choose between him and his friends. Like, how do I go about it?
Exactly, that's a great question because I don't believe in ultimatums. You don't have to be like, your friends friends or me, you pick right now. That never ends well. But just like, you could just say— I mean, tell me what you want, Amanda, because you know that he's not going to leave his friends. So what would feel right to you? How would you like them to interact in your life? Like, for example, would you— yeah, tell them what's your answer to this, because only you know.
You know when you go to work and you just get along with the people that you get along with?
Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like, you go to work, you don't see them outside of work, you go to work, you get your job done, you come home.
Yep.
That's what I want. Right, with his friends is that when we, when we hang out, yeah, we get along like two peas in a pod. Other than that, they don't cause a massive drama in my life. But the only issue is, is that they don't actually invite him out anymore because they're scared that I'm gonna bring— that I'm gonna be brought along. And I've actually turned around to them and said, organize a boys trip, I don't give a crap, right? Like, boys need their time, go organize. And they're like, no, because you're gonna get upset. Like, Or you're just going to show up.
They're creating stories in their head that aren't even true and that haven't happened yet. So really, yeah, yeah. I mean, it sounds like they're not mature enough for you guys even to hang out because I would say you just kill them with kindness and you be yourself. Next time you see them, you're like, hi, good to see you guys. And maybe you win them over and they're like, oh my God, she's awesome. Or they're just creating trouble, in which case your boyfriend will on his own have to realize like, oh God, Amanda's a cool chick, I want to be with her, my friends are being, you know, jerks, or they're not aligned to where I'm at. And I don't, I don't want to be with him, or maybe he'll find something in the middle, but it's not really your job. You just can just decide how you react to things and what kind of energy you want in your life. So it's not an ultimatum, but at all, but it's more like, what do you feel comfortable with? And, um, if he feels like, you know, that's the thing. And if your boyfriend's like, they're not inviting me anymore and I'm really upset by it, then he might choose that, like, he might not be able to be with you. I don't know what's going to happen here, but I think that you have to, um, just kind of be honest with them and say, it doesn't make me feel good, but I will go along with it. I'm not going to say anything, but I'll be— because I think fighting with them and texting isn't going to do anything. So I think you ignore them, and when you see them, you're polite and kind. If you don't have to run into them, then you just keep living your lives together. If this really isn't your problem, actually, at this point, now it's his. So you might— I mean, I feel like you've done everything you can. And if you guys are still seeing each other enough and you're having a good time when you're together, then it's kind of like he's got to deal with them when he sees them. You don't have to repair his relationships and tell them how to be in a, you know, but I think that, you know, if you still love them and you want to be with them, you can't obviously have them choose, but eventually, hopefully he'll see that if they're not treating you well, there's probably other things that they're doing that aren't, don't feel so great either.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
You're welcome. Bye, Amanda.
Bye.
Bye. Thanks for calling from Australia. Love it. Okay. Thanks everyone for listening to the show. I love talking to you and thank you to my amazing team, Ken, Jenny, volunteers, Sarah, producer Jamie, and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithemily.com.