Mindfully Sexy with Dr. Jenn

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend? Because my man E here, he just got his heart broken.

He thinks you're kind of cute. A girl's gotta have her standard. Oh my, the women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean, like laundry?

It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh, my God, I feel so good. Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com, check out our podcasts, our blogs. We're updating the site every day. It's really a good time over there at Sex with Emily. You can also subscribe to the podcast and you can follow me on social media, which I love. I love hearing from all of you. It's Sex with Emily on Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter. Okay, so I'm gonna jump in. I'm excited for today's show because, like, we almost had to start it, like, the second she walked in. Cause there's so much talk about. So I'm just gonna bring. I've got Dr. Jen here. She's a sociologist and a sexologist. I wanna talk to you before we get into the meat of the show, which you guys are gonna love. I can already feel it. We're having a contest, and it's how to be a better lover in 2018. How we be a better lover. And so I think. So what I've been asking my listeners is if they'll email me, like, their pledges, like, their commitments, their sex solutions, if you will, or sex resolutions. You know, don't you think there's so much power to writing things down and kind of taking inventory of the last year? Like, I think a lot of us look at our successes, our failures. Maybe we look at our relationships with family and work, but sex, we both agree people do not prioritize it or think about it or talk about it enough. So I'm thinking people can, like, break out of their routines if there's one thing they've been wanting to try. Maybe they want to, you know, learn how to ask their partner for this one thing they've been dying to ask. Or they want to masturbate more. I want you to help me when you think about that, too. Is there any suggestions you might have? Because I've been talking about the contest the last two shows, and I thought, I'm going to ask Dr. Jen what she would suggest is some interesting. Just to spark people's imaginations for some commitments they could make for improvement around sex. And it could be relationships as well. Like, I have. Like, I no longer want to ejaculate and roll over. You know, like maybe I want or like put it in ejaculate and roll over. Like maybe I want more foreplay. Maybe I want to, you know, we want to take a trip together, we want to have sex outdoors, we want to be. Study tantra, anything.

Yeah, well, I love, I don't think people even realize they can set intentions about what it means to be a good lover. And I think even to reflect, like, what does it mean to be a good lover? And so like, that would be even my starting point for folks that are like, I love this idea, but I have no idea where to start until like take a holistic approach then. So, you know, look at what do you think a good lover is? Physically, mentally, emotionally, socially and spiritually, whatever that means to you. And like to take that holistic approach and be like, what is it to be? Because that, that is what a good lover is.

It is.

It's not just a specific new technique you learn. It's like, you know, it's the energy that you're bringing to it and you're, you know, your open mindedness.

So give me an example. So along those lines.

Well, so along those lines would be.

Like a spiritual one.

Yeah, so spiritual one would be, I would say like mindfulness. Cause that's at the core of all the work I do. And I'm sure we'll be talking about that. Like, how do I be more present with my partner, you know, or how can I realize, okay, I've been focusing on my pleasure too much. How do I make sure I'm being present with like the nuances of how my partner's responding and reacting and. Or on the flip side. Cause I've heard this, you know, from some men and women, like, oh my gosh, I'm so focused on their pleasure, I'm not even in touch with my own pleasure.

Well, it's an interesting dance, isn't it? Because you know, you could be like a really big giver and you're like, I just want to make sure that I'm doing it right and she or he is happy. But then we don't know how to do both. We like literally don't know. So I was thinking about, like, how can we really in the moment. Because sex is really all about being present, paying attention. Like, because your partner will give you all the information you need. And if they don't, you can ask. But there's a lot going on. Just really being present during sex and breathing more and being mindful. I love it.

I think Even, you know, getting in touch with your five senses, if you realize that you're like, okay, I'm in my head so much, I'm worried about performing and pleasing them, or I'm worried about my own performance. And so just even choose your sense of touch or choose your sense of smell. And, like, anchor yourself in the moment with your five senses and be like, okay, what do the sheets feel like? What's my partner feel like? What's my partner smell like? What do they taste like? All of those things get us out of our head and our, you know, our monkey mind that's constantly chattering or worrying or anxious and gets us present in the moment with ourselves and what's showing up for us and our partner. And that's so good.

Well, it's so funny that you said that, because I always, you know, as you do, we're looking at trends, right? And sex and the world was happening. And then I look at, like, trends in my life. Like, what came up for me three times over Thanksgiving when I was with my friends, right? Like, I was with my friends in Mexico. And I'm telling you, a few of my friends, it was guys, too. They all, like, separately. They're like, you know, how do I get my mind off my to do list during sex? How do I get into the moment? I mean, I want to have sex with my husband and my partner, but I can't in the focus. And it was like, okay, so five people asked me how to, you know, this time, how do I focus? And what I always say is, you know, it's similar. Like, really, like, when you're. It's a practice. It's the monkey mind. It's mindfulness. And in the moment, when you're like, oh, but who's going to pick up the dry cleaning? You're like, what am I feeling now? Oh, I feel like my pelvic floor is. I'm breathing into my pelvic floor. I feel his penis feels amazing and hard. And I love what you just brought in about, even, like, because mindfulness is everything. It is all the senses. So maybe there's like a candle, this isn't you that you light. You're like, I always like this candle. And I just put new sheets on the bed and I'm gonna play my. This playlist. So maybe this is like a pre. I'm just thinking this a pre sex ritual. So if you're like Emily, but I can't. You're like, okay, well, I can always latch onto the candle first. If I'm like in the moment, not remembering to think. If I can't think about my body because I'm feeling anxious.

Yeah.

You could be like, but I do smell the vanilla candle.

Yeah.

Or I do remember that I put clean sheets. So then. And then you. All the senses will follow you. You know what I mean? If you're like, oh, and that spirit playlist. And then you're not thinking about the fact that you. Whatever. Gain two pounds.

You don't like how your thighs look or your bellies looks. Yeah. Or that you're not going to orgasm or you're going to come too fast or.

Yeah, I love that.

And that's like being really intentional about putting those sensual anchors in the anchors and being like, okay, this is hard. It is hard to not be distracted. It is hard to be mindful even when you're. You're doing something that's pleasurable. But there's a million other things that are going on in our heads. And with our fast paced of technology today, like, we're getting even more fragmented and it's even harder to stay present for a short amount of time. So just like, I think it's important for folks not to blame themselves, but to notice you're distracted and then have something specific that you choose to focus your attention back on and then don't judge yourself for it.

Exactly.

I mean, and that is the definition of mindfulness.

The definite. Exactly. That you're going back if you. And this is a practice. So if you notice that you had sex. What you said, don't be hard on yourself. It could take you 50 times during one session. That if you remember times. That's amazing. Where you still won't do it, but you still won't feel like you're totally present. But that's the practice. And eventually it's just 20 times that you're doing it. So. Yeah, I love that.

And you can bring amusement to it. And just because I've been cultivating mindfulness for the past 14 years now. And so when I keep noticing that I'm distracted and I'm like, oh my God, Gonzalez, you're doing that thing again. And then I kind of laugh and I was like, that's what my brain does.

Exactly.

And so it like the opposite of beating myself up for it, actually just having amusement for. That's how my brain's trained. But I'm gonna keep working on this.

It's a practice because we all have those voices in our head. We all do. Like, and we don't realize that it's actually our voice, you know, and that is mindfulness as well. That I do that, you know, a lot. I'm always constantly going, you know, and we slip a lot. But I'm like, okay, that's the negative thought. You gotta send the more. Like, what do you replace every thought with? That's the positive that you set out into the universe. And so even in the moment, though, we. When you hear that voice, like, it is me, it's not me. You can learn to separate it. Which, again, takes years of the observer. It can take years of it. You're the observer, I think, oh, this is the channel you want to listen. It's like, I'm going to change the program, and I'll think, oh, it's almost like I'm watching Netflix. Like, I could change it to a better one. And then I'm like, oh, let's turn on music. And it's gone. Okay. Hope we inspired you all to write it down and to really think about it. Because a year from now, do you still want to be having the same exact sex that you're having today? And if the answer is no, enter our contest. It is. Email me feedbackexwithemily.com by January 14th.

Okay, wait. How does somebody win the contest?

Oh, thank you. They're gonna send in the submissions. They're gonna send in their ideas for how they want to be a better lover. Put that in the subject line. Better Lover 2018. And then we're gonna pick four people stories that we love that really spoke to us, and they're gonna win amazing sexy prizes. Yay.

Oh, my God. I'm gonna enter.

You can enter. Oh, you, my friend, are leaving with some sexy prizes just for showing up.

Yeah.

Wait till you see the sex toy closet.

Sweet. There's a sex toy closet here.

Oh, I love that. You don't know that yet.

I do not know that.

Oh, we're gonna have some fun. Cause you were saying. Okay, so when you came in and we were talking about toys for a second, and you said you've had one. Can I share this?

Oh, yeah, go for it. I mean, I've had many, but I still have my go to.

Yeah, yeah, we want you to. But it was like, one. You've had the same one for 10 years. Eight years. Which is great. And it's a good vibrator. It is. But they've changed, and they're gonna rock your world. That I'm gonna show you.

Cause I can't, because I keep trying new ones. There was something about that g Swirl that I got from this vibration.

I love good vibes.

It's that specific vibrations.

Okay, I don't want to say listen, I'm not going to say there's better. I shouldn't even say. I'm saying there's different and I just want in my brain. I'm not thinking you should even replace that one because you love it. It's going to be an addition to that family of vibrations.

I can't wait to go home tonight.

Yeah, you have no idea. No, it's going to be fun. So Dr. Jen is a sociologist and sexologist and tell me, tell me what you got going on right now. I know you have, there's a lot, you have a lot of great content online and you see your coach.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm in a lot of directions. So one thing I've been doing for the past 10 years is relationship and intimacy counseling and coaching with individuals and couples.

Although my real passion is public speaking and videos. I have a whole video series on YouTube in the den with Dr. Jen with over 220 videos and I've done two TEDx talks. I'm one of the founders of Sex Positive San Diego where we create sex positive spaces for people to learn and grow around sexuality. I've been in the expert in the documentary, the only documentary documentary on masturbation called Sticky A Self Love Story, which is fantastic movie.

Oh, you know, I want to ask you real quick and then we're getting to this, is that I know that you, your interest I found was stoked from attending the Summer Institute of Sexuality Society and Health at San Francisco State University. So my thing, I'm wondering, but I, but that's where mine was stoked too. I lived in San Francisco for 20 years. So I'm just wondering if that there's something about San Francisco what inspired you to get into this?

Yeah, I mean, I mean I was already in grad school Getting my PhD in Sociology with a specialty in sex and gender when I intended that summer institute. But yeah, I mean if, if, if San Francisco was warmer, I absolutely would have moved there instead of San Diego.

I'm so glad I found that out. I know what you mean because I.

Love that city and the vibe there. Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about your, your speaking. I loved your sex and the price of masculinity talk that you did, and that was really, really powerful. And the reason why I want to talk about this is because I think that there's a lot going on right now around consent. We never really Understood it. And now we're making it so much more difficult. Like you said, take a camera in someone's face. Yes, I got your consent. Write it down. You to get their thumbprints. And I think people think, were you raped? Were you not? And I loved the nuance of your story and just how you speak about it, because I think people don't think of it in this way.

Yeah. So I was part of a storytelling event a year and a half ago called the New Narrative. And we were to speak on some specific topic. And it was communication. There were six of us speakers and we were all speak on what area? Whatever area we wanted, but where we had a specific conflict around communication. And so since sex is my area, I did sexual communication and I ended up sharing a personal story of a consent violation that I experienced. So, yeah, I was kind of dating a guy from afar, and then the first time we met, we got together and we really clearly communicated about sex and our expectations and. And condom use or not. And so we were very much on the same page. Like, okay, we're not. Sex is not on the table this weekend. And he's like, I didn't even expect it. And so. And then. And it's. It's funny because I've realized in retrospect, I think, you know, I was in 1991, I was a. It was my freshman year of college, and when Magic Johnson came out HIV positive, and it was like a year later than that, I became a sexual health peer educator. And so my sort of coming of age around sex was at a time when HIV and AIDS really hit mainstream. And I think, you know, and that put in my head this understanding of like, you know, sex, sexual intercourse can equal disease or death or something like that. And I. My indoctrination into sexuality was a really think outside the box, like, playful play around with bodies. Like, it's. It's not this just linear progression.

Like, you really, you know, have you said the. The stick it in rollover ejaculation, Right. Just that.

No, no, it's all this other stuff. So, you know, I have that in my mind. And so, you know, and I start hooking up with this guy and I check in at some point, like, we're still good, you know, like, basically no penis inside me. And he's like, yeah, yeah. And then the next thing I know, at some point, his penis is inside of me. And so I jumped off of him and I called him out on it. And then, you know, he went to leave and I was like, no, you're going to stay here and you're going to talk about it. Because that's what I needed in that moment.

Exactly. Like, no one does that.

Right. So that's what I've heard since I didn't know that.

So this is the part that blew. Blew me away. Because when we talk about, like, communication and I say, it's on the wall. Communication is lubrication. That was. I loved that. It was so, like, that's how you do it in the moment. And it was so. I can't tell you how many times that I still think really today, really still. Men in their 40s, 30s, they still don't know the stuff. It's like that moment when you're. Yeah. You're having sex and you're like. You're saying no. You're pushing their hand away, and then they still go for it, and they still. You're like, how did we just say no? And then you're like, we're not gonna have sex. But they're.

They literally just keep pushing.

And I love the nuance of, like, you look down at one point and he had his pants off and his penis was erect, and it was pointing. Going towards your vagina. And you're like, no.

And then you're not doing that, right? No, no, don't cover this.

We covered this at dinner. No sex. And it was like, what got lost there in that translation? And the fact that. So how it normally would have gone down. It's like, oh, no, no. And then he would have tried again. And a lot of women. What I want to say is, everything that I tell you guys not to do, I can tell you that I have done. So there have been moments where I'm like, no, we're not going to have sex. And then it got so close. Did feel good in that moment. And I think, well, I am attracted to him. I did say no, but I could be flexible. Maybe I had a drink. And then he puts it. You know, it's. And it liked him fooling around with them. And he does it. And he didn't listen to the fact that maybe I said, I don't know if I ever said no sex, but probably, like, I'm not comfortable yet, or whatever it was. If I really checked in, no, I don't want to have sex.

Right. And the next day when you wake up, you're not like, yay, so glad I had sex last night.

Right?

No. Right.

Like, my friend. I used to literally joke when, like, well, I slipped and fell on his penis last Night. You know what I mean? Like, oh, we had sex. It was okay. We didn't really care. And it wasn't like, it was harmful. And it's not like, I. It was terrible sex. But it's just that moment, because I believe that women. You showcase this so well, that we are wired to, like, be the pleasers and be, like, acquiesce in that moment rather than being like, oh, and that's the mindfulness. If you are really in touch with your body, your mind, your spirit, your soul, you'd be like, oh, that doesn't feel right. No. And the fact that you.

Yeah.

Brought. You were like, no, no. He got up to leave because he felt rejected. Because men will feel rejected.

He felt horribly shamed, too. Yeah. For what he had done. And so he just wanted to be out, which. Which I get.

I love that you did this. So you said to him, no, you're not leaving.

Yeah. You're gonna talk about this. And then we, like.

And what'd you say? Tell. I want to hear the conversation.

Like, at least 45 minutes. We hashed it out, and it was.

He was sitting there, like the condoms on his limp penis, hanging off stress.

Interestingly, I was still naked.

Oh, he wasn't wearing the condom, though.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There was no condom there. And that was part of the problem.

Problem was. Yeah, you said, I. I would only sex the condom. He doesn't like condoms. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was an easy.

Which is happening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, we were hashing out, like, how did. How did it happen? Why did it happen? You know? And I said to him at one point, I just, like, this sudden realization. I was like, oh, my God, like, you've done this before. And he was like, I don't. I don't think so. And I was like, I think you have. I'm like, you so easily did this with me. And he had told me earlier, like, this guy really liked me. Like, he didn't want to just fuck me. Like, he wanted to date me. Like, he wanted to seriously date me. He was very interested in me, and we had a good chemistry between us.

He was 20 something, right?

Yeah, he was actually, like, early 50s at the time. And, yeah. So, I mean, he was an old kid. But you, like, still did this, you know, like, you didn't want to screw this up, and you still did that and didn't listen to me. I'm like. And without a condom and, you know, because that's the consequences, like, I'm not on the pill and what about STDs and, you know, and all these things and just the lack of. And I had, you know, said no, clearly. And we had checked in, and my. So there were so many components, yet he so clearly, easily did it that I'm like, you probably have a history of this. And then he sent a text with me the next day, and I shared that in my talk where he owned that, actually, to his credit, and said, I've been reflecting on that. I. I think you're right. I probably have. And he's like, God, I feel horrible. Like, horrible as a man that I've done that and horrible that, you know, I've ruined what's between us. And I mean, to his credit, like, he easily could have blamed me or shamed me. And like, he owned it.

Right. The thing is about this story is that we're not saying, like, it was a rape. We're not saying he was even. He's even a bad guy, that he's not like, he's assaulted all these women to say that. It's more like someone talking about his. This dynamic that is so familiar to me. And I think a lot of women can kind of, like, we just kind of give in, even if it's just, oh, I'll let him touch or I'll make out with me. But all these things that we do because we don't want to. And men are like, well, they've never been told differently. So it wasn't like he was doing this to women, but totally unconscious, like, oh, totally preconscious subconscious.

Yeah.

Because there's no education. We've never been taught how to do things differently. And so this whole norm between women, like, kind of giving into things or not asking, not telling, that it's not comfortable in the moment.

It's just.

And that was a different way of thinking about that when we think, well, I've always said consent. It's like it was those that nuanced moment where even if it's anything, a kiss, a touch in the moment, you're not comfortable. Like, why we don't know how to communicate about it in the moment, during sex.

It's so awkward. It is so socially awkward. I mean, and all of us hate social awkwardness, especially in an intimate situation where you could offend somebody or be rejected or be shamed or be ridiculed. Like, that's scary. Like, that feels really bad inside of us. And then on the flip side, you know, men have literally been taught that they need to be the aggressors. And the initiators in sex. And they need to be confident. And they, you know, the number one thing, and some great research by Brene Brown, who. I love her work, is that the, like, the number one fear that men have is appearing weak. I mean, we have trained that into our boys as a society. We have trained them out of empathy and, you know, a somatic awareness of their emotions and ownership of their emotions and being able to articulate them in a responsible way. And then we've trained them that you need to go for what you want. You need to always be confident, and sexually, you need to be in charge.

Right. Go for. And we want. And it's such confusing messages for men, which is why this is. I never. On this show, we are never. Like, my heart goes out to men. Like, I want to heal every man and woman on the. On the planet right now, which is huge. But it's a big undertaking. But I'm saying they're so cool, confused, and they're. They're feeling so maligned, I guess, because of this. But we were not taught any different, that they are the aggressors. Take it. Go for sex. Like, that's your job. And then women. The other confusing part is that. And I've said variations of this on the show was like, be confident. Confidence is the sexiest thing you can have in the bedroom for men. And for women, it's a different version of confidence.

It's a different version of confidence. Like a feminine version versus a masculine version.

Exactly. It's just so different. And so. But for women, we're also taught. So men are taught to be the aggressors. And women had these expectations, young women, I talked to these expectations, like, well, I hope he'll be good in bed and he'll bring it, and he'll know what he's doing because he has more experience. I'm not sure that I, you know, it's just there's.

And she doesn't want to be. It's very awkward to what you want. Right. Or you may be perceived as, quote, unquote, slutty or.

Again, exactly.

Well, so. And then we have the flip side, because I've talked to some men that are like, okay, so I'm asking for women for permission before a hug or asking for women for permission before a kiss. And some women are like, oh, my God, that's fantastic. I feel so honored. But then they have other women that are like, dude, just do it. Why are you doing that? You seem like, not a man. And I'm like, well, this is what I'm telling you.

I don't, like, man up. But then we want you to be so consensual and kind and intuitive. But they can't. Okay. There's a thing we want that they don't. What you're saying is. And what is true is that we have, you know, these. The men have been, you know, stripped of the ability to intuit what we want to be. To be in touch with their emotions, their bodies, the breath, the. The. So what we're asking them to do is they're literally skills that they have not cultivated through a lifetime.

Yeah.

So that's why this whole thing that's going on right now with, you know, sexual harassment and why it's. It's been in the, you know, in the States especially, like, everything, you know, I guess it's kind of everywhere now.

Well, I mean, it's been going on forever. Forever. Right. But we're talking about. The public discourse around it is really blown up in the me too movement.

So this whole. The whole me too hashtag, me too movement that's going on right now, the Harvey Weinstein gate, whatever you want to call it, sexual assault gate, is that men are. Yeah. They're all like, well, what do we do? They're thinking of it in such a black and white, masculine, analytical way. Well, does that mean now I can't hug or I can't. That's not sexy. So it's very confusing. It's not even about those subtle things. So that's what. That's been the reaction right now I'm like, what now? What? It's like, yeah, we're not going to solve this problem. Problem with these pundits and just saying, yes, no, now I know we're not gonna solve it the way we got into it, which was black and white. Exactly.

I know. And let's not talk about really the nitty gritty of these topics and. Because what I'm concerned about, what you just kind of mentioned is this. Then I'm afraid that then men that are in positions of power are now, you know, you know, shitting a brick and really scared and probably thinking about what the hell have I been doing for the past 20 years and can I get in trouble? You know, I'm waking up every morning with fear, but then also being afraid of being like, okay, so, like, I'm probably going to mess up, and so I'm just going to avoid these interactions. Which means then they're not going to invite women to sit at the table.

Exactly.

Or folks of color because they're going to be afraid that they're going to do something wrong. They're not skilled in this. And now there's going to be further discrimination, you know, based on fear. And I'm like, so I don't, I mean, I love this movement and, and it's so important and it's been so valuable for so many women to feel validated, to be like, oh my God, me too, me too, me too, me too. Like, it was like there was a day when it just really seemed to explode on social media and I'm like, oh my God. Every woman I know is writing this and I just like started sobbing one afternoon. And I know for many men it's so eye opening and being like, oh crap. And we all know it happens all the time. Didn't quite know to the extent. And so I think this is really eye open for a lot of people to be like, yeah, no, this happens all the time and continues and we just have to deal with it in one way or another. And not that, you know, it doesn't happen to men also, you know, there's. It's all around, unfortunately, but it does tend to be more gendered. So for men out there that are listening, that are feeling fear around this and think they might be limiting their interactions out of fear, I think this is a really great opportunity to practice humility and be like, you know what? I don't know what, I don't know. I haven't been trained this way. I do want to be a good person and I do want to be a good man. I don't want women to fear me and I don't want to hurt people. So let me practice some humility and just start listening more and actually start engaging in conversations with women who you do trust and feel safe with and be like, tell me when this has happened to you and give me details around it and give me how the guy could have done something different and how it made you feel. And like, get into really the details of the nitty gritty of it so that you can start figuring out like, okay, how can I handle myself differently and responsibly and still really stay in engagement?

Right? And that's why I loved your story, because I think it can happen the conversations outside the bedroom, but it was that in the bedroom too. Just, you know, being more mindful going into the new year and paying attention to like what really feels good to you. And it's okay to stop and say, oh, wait, that, that doesn't yeah, because I'm always like, it's best to have conversations about things you want to try in the bedroom, outside the bedroom, like, when you want to spice it. But these moments, if something is painful, uncomfortable, or if there's something that you want, like, it's going to be. It takes 10,000 hours, they say, to be an expert at anything, right? And people don't even want to take, like, 10 seconds to have these conversations that are really real about what they want in the bedroom. So it's okay that it's gonna be awkward and uncomfortable, but once you start talking about the dynamics of sex you're having and what you. You want and what you desire, when things don't feel good in the moment, like, it's just gonna. Gets easier than what I think is gonna happen. What I hope for everybody's it. They're not gonna be able to remember a time where they weren't able. It's gonna be just part of, like, you know, would you like pepper on your salad? Like, when you're having dinner, like, would you like, are we using condoms? Are we not what feels good to you?

Yeah, pay attention. I think one piece that tends to be missing in approaches around trying to reduce sexual assault and sexual harassment is this. You know, what I talk about, like, the somatic piece, which is, like, where do we feel our emotions and where do we feel things in our body? Because our body gives us so much feedback and wisdom, and often it's really uncomfortable. So shame and embarrassment and fear and anxiety, all of those things feel really bad in us, and we don't want to be with them. And so we generally have patterns that are not under our control that we do when we feel that stuff. And so to be able to do something different in these situations in a responsible way, I think we all need to learn how to sit and stay present with that discomfort. And so, you know, for, like, my clients are in workshops and all, I teach folks how to. How to mindfully, like, say, just journal, journal on, like, what is showing up? Like, where are you? What emotions are you feeling? And where do you literally feel it in you, and then breathe into it. Because once you know that you can stay present with that ickiness inside of you, the next time something like that pops up, you have a little more resiliency, right. To stay present. And even if you're only present for 10 seconds, it's 10 seconds more than you were before.

Exactly. No somatica. I mean, somatic therapy is so. I mean, really, it's just, again, Becoming in touch. And this is again with. For men and for women. So many of us are just cut off. We just breathe shallow. It's going from, like, the chest up. And it's a practice of breathing into your body and then in the moment, being like, what am I feeling now? What I'm feeling? Well, what am I feeling now? And I have to say, I have had the experience coming at this, that this is a new. For many people. Like, they've never done this. They've never thought about it. And I remember when I first went to therapy, like, in my early 20s, I had, like, trauma, you know, death stuff going on in my family. I've experienced, like, trauma and deaths, and it was not a great time. And what I did was I shut down and I felt numb. So my therapist said to me, I was like, 22. She's like, where do you. I said something. Where do you feel something? I probably said, like, I was sad. She goes, where do you feel that? And I was like. I looked at her, like, blank. I'm like, what does that mean? Yeah, you know, up here. I pointed my head. No, no, they're somewhere in your body. And it's taken me. It took me years of meditation, yoga, therapy, to finally be able to be like, oh, I feel it right here in my chest. So, again, that's why, if none of this makes sense to you, just breathe. Start with that, and then that's the process.

Well, and if nothing else, at least.

I mean, if the mindfulness part of.

It seems overwhelming to you, right? Well, at least if locating in your body doesn't make sense, if nothing else, like, print out a list of emotions. Because I've been, you know, when. Particularly men that are like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Where do I locate it in me. And I go, well, what about this list of emotions? Because I'll be like, what are you feeling? They're like, I'm kind of pissed. And I'm like, well, what else? You know? And then they'll go through this list and they'll be like, oh, I'm kind of humiliated. Oh, I'm a little disappointed. Oh, I'm kind of sad. And then they might start tearing up and, like, their whole face changes.

They don't even know the options because they haven't been able to feel the range of emotions that are available to us.

Right? But it doesn't mean they're not there.

Right.

You know, they just haven't had space before. And that. Just the neural connections of ability to Recognize them and articulate them, you know, was never trained into them. So even just a list of emotions is amazing. And that's incredibly empowering to be able to articulate that. And it's like, I see it. Like, I feel the shift in energy in them.

So they give to, like, sociopaths, though, sometimes. Or I would see my friends.

Wait, what's this?

No, my friend's like, uncle. She's like, he was a sociopath. He carried around this. Like, he couldn't feel emotions, so he had to carry around a smiley face. What do I feel now? He was, like, faking it. But it's not that. But this is what we're saying for Sometimes you just need that reference. We weren't taught. Especially if you were taught to block things or on your own for survival, you never felt things. So.

Oh, yeah. If it wasn't safe to. And lots of folks were raised that it's not safe to be present with your emotions or own them or articulate them because you might be beat up, you might be bullied, your family. I had a client once that both his parents actually would make fun of him for any emotions.

Happy or sad.

Yeah.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's horrible. So of course you're gonna shut down just as a basic survival mechanism and a smart one, too, because otherwise you could have killed yourself or you could be a drug addict. And no, you actually found one that was. That really worked for you.

Right.

But now it's getting in the way of the most intimate connection you want with someone else. And so we have to learn how to slowly, safely, you know, take that armor off and chip it away.

Exactly. I want to say that I can relate to this because there's a lot of me that was very intense, still works on being shut down. I mean, it's always a process. Yeah. And for a lot of. For example, men who have been in the news lately, and you look at, like, Harvey Weinstein or Louis C.K. and you're like, what? I don't get it. Like, I don't. How could men do this? They. Some of them, you understand more than others. It's emotional regulation. So for a lot of men, they were never able to even figure out ways to feel. And so as a result, that. That can come out in many ways. It come out in addictions. People drink too much, they beat their partner, they play too many video games, or they aggressively rape and assault women.

There's a lot of positive things that men can be trained in in terms of, like, masculinity training. But there's also, you know, what's called toxic masculinity. And I'm like, that's what we're talking about here. That when there's a lack of mindfulness around these topics about being in touch with your emotions and responsible around your emotions, men can do a lot of bad things. And that's what we're kind of calling toxic masculinity.

Exactly.

But it doesn't mean men are bad, and it doesn't have to mean that masculinity is bad. There's a lot of really beautiful aspects of men who, quote, unquote, want to be men. And that has meaning to them. And whether they feel like it's innate or it's been socialized into them, by the time we're adults, all that stuff's mixed together. And so to me, it's like, how do you just. How do you be a good person? And if part of that to you is being a good man, like, really be reflective of that and recognize that that comes with responsibility and it also comes with some degree of unlearning, maybe some negative patterns that you've been taught were also part of being a man.

Exactly. There's a lot to unpack here, but I think ultimately this is going to be amazing for the country and the world. I think this is all happening for, like, a reason, and this is time for us all to learn these.

Absolutely.

Relearn or learn for the first time.

Yeah, it's going to be a roller coaster for sure, but it's in the right direction.

Okay, well, thanks, Dr. Judd. You're gonna stay. And we're going to answer some emails from our listeners. I'm going to give a shout out to our sponsors. Thank you for supporting them. And we will be right back with your emails.

Emails. If you have a question you want me to answer on the show, that's amazing, text your questions to 797-979. And then you just text Ask Emily. It has to be one word to 797-979. You can also submit a question at sexwithemily.com via the Ask Emily tab. And as always, include your gender, your age, where you live, and how you listen to the show. Hello, Emily. I recently started listening to your show because of my own relationship and sex issues. I'm finding it quite helpful. All of my girlfriends have been great people, and they're the type of people you could marry and they were would be faithful and happy. However, I always lose desire to be with someone after we've been together for a few months. I'll try to talk about what I like, but nothing ever comes of it. I mainly have a love for oral play, both giving and receiving. And I need my partner to give and love oral, but nobody seems to. I'm very clean, healthy and fit as I'm a natural bodybuilder. Is there something wrong with me losing interest in all these seemingly good people? Is loving oral play that out there that most women consider it taboo? Thank you. Jesse, 24, Spokane, Washington. Okay, thanks Jesse, for your email. I think this is interesting because there's a few things going on here. He says that his girlfriends are great and the problem is he loves, you know, oral sex. Women aren't giving him enough oral sex, but then ultimately he loses interest. He's 24 years old. And I get, we get this from a lot of men. You know, they're like. And women, I'm with someone and why does it change after a few months? Or why do I lose that attraction? Or why aren't I getting what I want? And I think, you know, I think it's like, you know, also like, go easy on yourself. Maybe you're not really into having a relationship right now or you might want to.

Yeah, there's a bunch of things going on in this one, I think. I mean, one of them is, I mean, we do know the research of neurochemicals and that, you know, anywhere from a few months to, you know, two or three years or something, that there is a shift, you know, early, early lust in the neurochemical. The chemical cocktail of. Of neurotransmitters of dopamine and oxytocin and endorphins. Those don't last in the same way long term. Which, you know, in some ways is good because like, Jesus, you know, think about. You burn the candle at both ends, you stay up all night long and it's the best thing ever. Like folks did that all the time, like who would raise kids and who would go to jobs and stuff like that. And so I think it's sort of kind of biologically built into us that.

The neurochemicals, the three months, of course, the honeymoon phase.

Right.

But it can happen in every relationship.

Two and a half years. Yeah, exactly. Some people maintain a higher level of desire. So. But just knowing that that is a normal type of thing and that it's a. It's a like a big shift in the brain when you're shifting out of that to more long term love and commitment, then you gotta really figure out okay. What's, what's sexy? And how do I, how do I enjoy sexual encounters that aren't based just on those, those. That chemical cocktail.

Exactly. And then it's okay. And it's normal that I think that this model that we're just supposed to be moving towards monogamy and something's wrong if you maybe just after a few months. Yeah, exactly. Like you're attracted, you're not and you move on to someone else. Like that's not, it's kind of a, nor could be a process. And then when you, you realize that you're ready for a longer term commitment, that's when you, you move into that. But not to put pressure on yourself that anything's wrong. Yeah. Now the thing about the oral play is interesting because like that women don't want to provide them with oral sex and, or receive it well. Don't you hear this? So I feel like this is again, I do think that this goes back to a lot of it is, you know, self confidence and understanding your body. So for a lot of women, they're just. I feel like a lot of women in their 20s, early 20s might not be as interested in this confident or they don't want it because they don't feel confident in their body. They never had it done. They're not. There's a certain thing around that. Or men who've approached it maybe didn't feel good.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's a reason that folks say that women hit their sexual stride more in their 30s and that isn't really a neurochemical thing or a biological thing. I mean some of it could be, but I think it's more because we learn to like our bodies. We know our bodies. We don't feel shame about our genitals. Like we embrace our pleasure in new ways. We've had some experience under our belt. We've gotten more confident versus the shame and the good girl ideology and all these things. We might have been raised with that. That is very disembodying around us, you know, embracing our sexuality and feeling like we have a right to our pleasure and asking for it.

Right. I mean, I think about that. I think. But is it really just that? Just it's a process that women have to go through. I mean, how could we teach. This is what we're trying to do, teach women younger that like you don't have to spend your 20s like having bad sex and not getting pleasure. Like if you could, that's what it goes back to. Like I always say Sex education, teaching more about the pleasure than just the fear. And so I'm hoping that I'd love a lot of women to, you know.

Well, it'd be nice to, like, learn that we have a clitoris. I don't know. Growing up in Pennsylvania, that was not part of the anatomy. Like, my first boyfriend, I was a late bloomer at 18, like, was the first one, and I was like, oh, I didn't know I had that thing down there. Thank God he knew I had it down there.

He did. You're lucky. I didn't have anyone who knew till I was like 20 and my friends were like, what? You never know. I'm like, break this down for me. What am I missing? What are you talking about?

How do you make that happen?

I know exactly. Okay, so women think is loving or play that out there? No, I don't think it's that out there at all. So you're gonna find women who are more self aware and into it. So, you know.

Right.

And some women like it, are really into it.

And then there's lots of women who don't, but who care about their partner, who care about giving their partner pleasure and. And want to give it in that way.

He says he's also having a hard time finding partners who love giving oral. So I think that's also a confidence thing. So not just receiving it, but, like, why aren't I getting enough blowjobs, Emily.

Yeah, but the love piece. Just because you love getting it and you love giving it doesn't mean other people love giving it in the same way. And yeah, you will find somebody that's.

Something that you learned over time to truly. Okay, not every woman. Again, you might never love giving blow jobs. And that is totally fine. Be upfront about it though, and be like, I am not a blowjob giver. Right. But I.

You gotta earn, em.

Do you really? See, I just feel like.

No, but there's a but there's. That's in the context of, like, me and who I am. And knowing me, it's not. It's not done in an obnoxious way. It's done in a. Like, you need to. Like, I have some unique pleasure triggers, and I need you to be attuned enough and care enough and, you know, involved enough of me and, like, interactive with me that you get me to a point that I am feeling so good, so freaking good that I am, like, so happy to give you whatever pleasure you want.

Okay.

So that. And it's not gonna be the typical things often that men think, you know, with their training. So like they need to be able to put their, their years of their sexual playbook up on a shelf and like maybe start scratch with me and have the courage to do that.

Exactly. It's like, can you please inspire me enough so I want to give you a blow job? And by inspiring me or women enough, it's like really just if you, I mean this notion that men, I think have this expectation or many people have this expectation that we're just going to be into it when they walk in the door. And that's the whole arousal versus desire thing that women, we're not ready yet. But what if a guy approached to, to just like, I'm going to give you pleasure, I'm going to find those hot buttons. I'm going to turn you on so much.

Yeah.

And I'm going to do all these things that, and I'm not saying it's more time, I'm not saying it's going to take you probably less time.

It's more mindfulness though, more sensuality.

Your blow jobs will be flying in your direction.

So how much I'm thinking about this is good. This shows good foreplay.

Right. I love it. So. So Jesse, there you go. So why don't you. Maybe I was gonna also going to say maybe he's not picking the right women or his picker's broken. I feel like Jesse, the next woman that you go out with, think about what can I do in this moment to really please her. And I think you'll be wildly surprised at how many blowjobs might be coming your way.

I'd say one other thing too is you never know like our diet impacts, you know, our sexual fluids.

Oh, let's talk about that.

And so, and I am a vegetarian and so I think we taste sweeter. But I do think, right, if a guy, you know, eats a lot of red meat or has a lot of, you know, caffeine or garlic and onions and stuff like that, like that stuff shows up and it's not the best tasting.

Wow.

So there is spiraled a world of.

Vegans just now, all the men in the world. That's all you gotta say, right?

No, so I don't, I don't mean this for Jesse to feel self conscious about himself, but I mean, I do think there is an awareness about what we're putting in our bodies and that it can show up in our taste.

So women aren't giving, but I don't know. Yeah, that is true. But we're not sure. That he's not getting blood jobs because he's.

I have no idea. But it could be a million different things.

Just that whole, like, be healthy, you'll have better sex, exercise more, eat healthy, you'll have a better life.

Better. And maybe he's getting a lot of blow jobs and he just wants even more. Like, we have no idea. Probably.

Okay, let's move on to another email. Jesse, let us know how that goes. You can thank me. Thank us both. Hi, Emily. I'm a 25 year old woman and I've been enjoying sleeping with some casual partners. I recently got out of a serious relationship and I'm enjoying this freedom that comes along with being single. I recently had an amazing hookup and I can't stop thinking about it. We spent the whole afternoon together. We had sex twice and both sessions were about an hour long. The guy was incredible, for sure. Some of the best sex I've ever had. He did some things I've never experienced before, like slapping my face. And I'm hoping to get some feedback. I didn't hate it, but I'm also very conscious about feeling empowered and ensuring that I feel safe and in control too. Have you ever experienced anything like that? Should I talk to him about it? Thanks so much in advance. Marie, 25, Seattle. So yeah, that's kind of what we're talking about. This nuanced in the moment, how do you communicate about things? Or after about things that didn't work because she could flip this. Right. So they were an hour long. He was incredible. But so in the moment we were saying that she's having sex, it's great. But he slapped her.

Yeah.

And I think this is something that again, talk about consent. You never want to go in and like, like slap someone without beforehand. You're like, hey, are you into rough sex? Are you into rough play? Like, how would you feel if I slapped you? Right. Or spanked you or. That's what I'm into. You don't, you don't. You don't ever just slap, choke, grab, pull hair even and push. None of this. But this is again, not going to go off on the whole porn thing. But I do believe for many men, like I don't feel like that was happening as much. Maybe 20 years, the choking and the pushing and the. So. So I would say that how in the moment. I love your asking this, Marie, because this will happen again. Things will happen during sex and you're not going to be quite comfortable.

It's funny, I've heard some men say and they really do believe this. They're like, well, all women like it rough. All women like when I'm, you know, in charge and take charge in that way. And so, I mean, maybe I have no idea what the percentages are, but that is something you don't want to make an assumption about. One, one, it's not consensual. Two, you could hurt someone. Three, you have no idea what that person's abuse past is. And if you're gonna trigger them or re. Traumatize them or a PTSD type thing, like, it's just not respectful and it can be really quite scary and defensive and so. Right. Just, gosh, yeah, don't do stuff like that without having a conversation first.

And so Marie's thing here, though, she wants. She says, you know, I didn't hate it, but she's conscious about feeling empowered and ensuring that I feel safe and controlled too. So maybe it's something she could be into rougher play. But it feels like Marie, that it just happened and it was startling to you because maybe you haven't experienced it. He didn't ask you. And with someone that you feel safe with and comfortable and you had the conversation, you might find you enjoy things that you never knew. So it's more about kind of talking about ahead of time. You would have known you guys could feel out what your boundaries are and what. And what feels good.

Yeah. And so I think, you know, her moving forward to talk to this guy, if they're going to keep hooking up, being like, you're amazing. Like, I love you. You're amazing.

Love all the things about.

This is great. This is awesome. Like, so this was incredible and so memorable. And there were some things that were new to me, and I'm not quite sure how I feel about them because they were new experiences. Like, can we just talk about them? And you know, coming up, like, one of these, like, I've never really done any rep. And you did this, like, so tell me, like, why did you do that? And what does that mean to you? And can I share the same of what it meant to me? And, you know, can we. You know, and I'm not saying I don't want any more of that, but I definitely need to have a conversation for you to hear my voice around this.

Right, Exactly. That's a great point. Like, just to have that real. And that's not gonna be easy for you, Marie. I'm not saying that you're gonna be like, oh, that's easy. But your. Your voice might shake. It's gonna be. These are the kind of conversations that men and women have to start having with each other, any couples. And it'll get easier and it'll become part. Like I said, I think there's gonna be a time and hopefully in the very near future where you're not gonna believe you couldn't have said these things or stood up in that moment. So it'll be.

And to start with that genuine compliment. Cause you don't want him to get defensive. Cause then you're not gonna be able to have that conversation. And he still might, and that's his responsibility. But if your goal is to really have clear communication, then to start with, like, dude, you're awesome. That's a vulnerable thing to say, to tell someone they were really awesome.

Yeah, exactly. That too, is vulnerable.

Open with vulnerability and putting yourself out there. You've also genuinely complimented them, been like, this was great. I want more. And.

And this part of it, though, this was new.

This is new to me. I'd like to talk about this.

Right? And rough play might not be my. That might not be my thing, but I've always thought about being spanked. You know, Marie, maybe this is a great time to ask for what you do want. Hi, Emily. I'm new to the dating scene, and because of a Christian upbringing and lots of academic study, I'm still a virgin at 30 plus. I've met this guy. We've agreed to take the slow. He's recently divorced and we meet every 10 days or so for a date and usually end up in bed and play around. He likes going down on me. It feels amazing. But what he's doing isn't bringing me to orgasm, and I think it's bumming him out. I'm okay with not coming. I know not everything pleasurable has to lead to climax, but I'd like to. What are some things I can ask him to do? What should I say suggest, etc, to get there. I'm still working on being more vocal and saying what I want. The bedroom. My mind usually goes blank. And it's hard. Thank you. And 34, Michigan. And I. I love the way she. She put this, because I know that feeling. My mind goes blank all the time. And then when it comes to me, when you're anxious, I mean, during sex, when you, like, have to talk about things, or at least earlier on when you're like, what do I say? Nothing. I feel nothing. I feel blank. I'm frozen. And so, I mean, that's such a great way of putting it because it's like, I can. I understand that. Because you haven't done it before. So that's your brain going, this is scary. I'm not sure. And so I feel like being more vocal. I would say this comes once you truly, you know, learn your body master. We can talk about mindful masturbation. And you get into it and you're like, oh, I know what feels good to me. I need a finger here, a tongue here. I need to move in this position. You'll know exactly what to say because you're like, oh, this is what I need. And then you'll be able to tell them. But right now it sounds like maybe you're just not sure. And there's a lot of women, like, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to ask for and how to ask for.

I had a couple of thoughts. I mean, one is, you know, how. How does she masturbate? So how does she get off? And is she willing to start bringing that into it and then teaching him in the moment how to do that? And I think what can be helpful sometimes because people are afraid it's going to ruin the moment or it's not romantic, it's awkward. And so sometimes I recommend. And for some couples, this works. Actually doing kind of a session with each other that's very rather clinical and that. So you're just like, okay, this is like, this is classic. We're in class right now. And so if you take that more heady approach and this doesn't have to be the most romantic thing ever, you can really play with the nuances of giving feedback. I'm like, okay, I put my tongue here. Like, what's that? And then I put my finger here. And then I tried this. And then we bring this lube in, like, which. Which works better. And if I shift this or that and like that, real detailed nuances in the moment. And then your partner, he can start to make it his own, but he needs some of those basic. And you need to give that moment to moment feedback sometimes.

Exactly. It is. That's because we're learning a new skill. I like the clinical approach. I'm thinking like, yeah, I mean, I have, like, we could bring in a vulva puppet. You could have evolva right there. But if you don't even want to do it clinically, you could do it over dinner. No, but it is true that you. And in the moment, even when you're having sex, if you don't want even it to be as clinical without sex, you could be show them, like literally take your partner's hand and put place it to where you need.

It's so interesting because that, that feels so vulnerable and awkward.

It's all vulnerable. That's what we're talking about.

So vulnerable. And again, I mean, that brings us back to, you know, we talked before about learning how to sit with that social awkwardness and even journaling on it and writing about it and seeing where you feel it in you and breathing it and knowing you could stay present with it. Because that's, I mean, that's true strength is being able to stay present with all of that discomfort and not run from it, numb from it, hide from it, and then have the courage to still have a voice through it and stay present. So that's just. It's a learning process.

But you're gonna learn and I'm glad that you're asking. And so really, the words don't have to be perfect. It's just start to start talking. Your sex will be so much better, I promise. And satisfying. Thank you so much, Dr. Jen, for being here. Okay, so everyone can find you give your website. We'll have this all in the show notes as well. But tell me.

Yeah, so folks can find me. My main website is Dr. Jen jensden.com. that'S-R-J-E-N-N-S-E-N.com. and then that's my handle for Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter. Dr. Jen's Den is all of those things. Awesome.

Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Jen, for being here and I appreciate it. I appreciate your talking about all this stuff with me. And everyone can check out your videos and everything on your line and your online courses. Wow, you guys, thank you for listening to the show. I love you all. Happy almost New Year's. It's gonna be New Year, so I'd love to hear from you on the. On our contest. It'd be really fun. Intentional. I think there's a lot of things to think about after the show. Such a great discussion. Thank you everyone for listening. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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