Network & Chill with Jordan Harbinger

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

Hey Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my. Do women know about shrinkage? Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about Sex so much.

Are you kidding me?

Oh my God, I feel so good. Being bad feels pretty good.

But you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com we've got a lot there to help you have better sex and relationships. You can also find me on Sirius XM weekdays, Monday through Friday, 5 o' clock Pacific, 8 o' clock east on Channel Stars 109. And we take calls, so you should give us a call and listen to the show. If you want a free trial, go to sexwithemily.com SR and as always, you can find us on all social media. It's with Emily. Okay, I hope you guys enjoyed this interview with my dear friend Jordan Harbinger. He is an interview talk show host and communications and social dynamics expert. He hosted a Top 50 iTunes podcast for over 12 years and his show, the Jordan Harbinger show was awarded Apple's best of 2018 and is one of the most downloaded shows of the year. So enjoy the show. I'm very excited for my returning guest and longtime friend, Jordan Harbinger. Harbinger. Why do I fuck it up?

You know, it's funny. It doesn't really matter. People get so self conscious about that.

Yeah, Harbinger.

But it's. It doesn't Harbinger. It is, but I don't even care. Like it's really doesn't matter. It really is Harbinger. Harbinger. Except tomaho is weird. Tomato's weirder than Harbinger. Do they really though English People do. And it's really English. It's a little. It grinds my gears. I was on a flight and the stewardess said, we have a cheese and tomato sandwich. And I was like. And people go, what? And cheese and tomato. And I was like, look, if you say tomato, this will stop happening, right?

Just say it.

Just say tomato.

It's not that hard. Cause I can say tomahto as you can say tomato. So Jordan Harbinger, he's called the Larry King of podcasting. Wall street lawyer turned interview talk show. I'm just reading your bio. Talk show host, communications and social dynamics expert. He's actually a dear friend that I've known for. We both started around the same time.

You were before me. You're the only person I know who did a podcast before me. Who still does it.

Exactly, Exactly. Still going. Still cranking along here podcast channels. But I'm really, I'm really proud of Jordan. He has, he has a podcast called the Jordan Harbinger Show.

Harbinger.

I don't know what the it's called, but it's. Oh, here's all your social media, so that's easy, right? It's jordanharbinger.com H R H-A R-B-I-N-G-E-R.com.

Right.

And it's at Jordan Harbinger. I'm gonna say it differently every time. Instagram and then Facebook and Twitter in all the places.

Right.

So congratulations on the success of your podcast.

Thank you.

Your latest podcast. A year.

Yeah, not even a year.

Even a year. And I'm looking this year. You were on a year ago. You guys can check out that past podcast, but you've been on a few times. But you launched this new show. And then I'm looking the other day, it's like top 100 podcasts of the year and all these amazing guests you've had on. Except for me.

Yeah, not yet. TBD on that. TBA coming soon.

So. But I realized there was a lot of dudes on your show. There are a lot of dudes, so that's cool. And essentially you talk to a lot of successful people. Success, however you define it.

I mean, some of the people are less traditionally successful. I mean, there was one guy who I interviewed recently who was imprisoned falsely in Pakistan for three years, and he was a stuntman from Hollywood. And so they're like, in Pakistan, when you go to prison, they beat you up to try to get a confession out of you. This is like court ordered. It's not just like corrupt, whatever. It's just a court ordered. And since he's a stuntman, he could hold his breath for three minutes. And he can, like, he knows martial arts. So these cops are trying to dunk him in water and he's like, whatever, I can hold my breath for three minutes. So they're trying to waterboard him for like a minute at a time, and he's like, this is easy. And they're like smacking him around. They're trying to have other prisoners beat him up and he's like, you know, drop kicking people. And so he's in prison for three years and he ends up making friends with these hijackers who teach him how to play Texas hold' Em poker. Now he's a professional poker player, so that I wouldn't say he's like a model of capitalist success.

Right. But you actually interview people that you admire whatever, however they've succeeded in the world and kind of learn from that. What they do, they've learned what they've done. So how do you find your guests? Yeah, how do you find success?

You know, the show fans, they come up and they go, you've gotta talk to this guy. So interesting. And. Or I'll find somebody and I'll read a book and I'll be like, this is a really good show in the making. And I'll reach out to some neuroscientist. And they're like, yeah, I never really do media. And I'm like, look, I wanna hear about how the brain tricks our eyes into thinking. We see stuff that's not there and they'll do it and they're not used to it because, you know, most scientists and stuff like that are used to doing like a 10 minute piece on some AM radio station and then done. And I'm like, I want an hour.

That's why I like the podcast. That's why I wanted you here to get into it today. I'm here without the. You know, we're still gonna put some of this on the other show, but. Okay, so last time you were on the show and you've been on a few times, we talked about establishing relationships, like through networking. And that's kind of what you talk about, is business skills. You'll interview people, right. In different areas of success. But also, how do you maintain relationships, whether they're romantic or otherwise? How do you keep friendships? We talk about that a lot around here too, because when you get really busy with work, it can be hard. And for me, even moving to a new city six years ago, formative years in San Francisco, how do you do that? How do you maintain them? And why is that important?

Yeah, so these are questions that I struggled with for such a long time, because when I was younger I thought like, oh, networking is something that you do when you're older. You work your way up to the top of the corporate ladder and then you get made. I used to be a Wall street attorney. So it's like, then you get made partner at this law firm and then like, I don't know, you join a country club network. Totally not how this works, Right? Actually, the most successful people that I've talked to that I meet, they do this networking stuff beforehand. And here's something else. Like, everyone thinks they're really good, natural networkers, and they're not. They're like, better than the people that they know that are not good at it. So they're like, oh, I do a lot of this stuff naturally. But some of the stuff that we teach, that I teach, when I teach networking and relationship development skills, we'll teach it to high level entrepreneurs, military, special forces, intelligence agents and stuff like that. People whose lives are on the line for networking. And they're like, wow, this is really good. They're furiously taking notes. And then I'll go to a college and teach it. And the kids are all like, I naturally do most of this. And I'm like, yeah, right. I'm sure it's some of the stuff that you're talking about. You're like, oh, no, I'm really good at that. And you're like, yeah, you're so not.

No, right. Like, follow. Because it's really a system. And I remember this from last time because you did say something about. And this is gonna be a little bit different, but following up, like, going through your text, I mean, like, I haven't talked to this person in a month. Six months. So when I heard from you, like six months ago or three months, I was like, I'm probably at the bottom of his text.

I'm at the bottom. Yeah, so.

But I know you love me. Anyway, it probably just came up, you were thinking about me.

So the system, it is a good system. So that's one of my favorite techniques, the one you just mentioned. So what it is, is like you go into your phone, click on the text message thing, scroll all the way to the bottom. Those are the people that you had lunch with like, three years ago, never talk to again. And you're like, oh, yeah, I did a crap job following up. You re engage like four or five of those people per day. And you just say something like, hey, what's the latest with you? It's Emily. I haven't spoken to you in a long time. We met in San Diego at Cafe Gratitude, and I did a crap job keeping in touch. I want to fix that. What's going on with you? I'd love to be of service somehow. And I'll just send a bunch of those every day. And, like, 70% of the people will respond and the other ones won't. And like, whatever, who cares? It's on them. And people get busy. It's like, not a big deal. But then you re engage these people. And then sometimes people are like, oh, my God, it's so funny. I was just talking about you as someone the other week, and I couldn't remember where we met. I'm doing a speaking event for this company, I sell laptop screens and we need someone to come in. Do you do speaking? And you'll find these random opportunities. So when I re engage people that I'm actually friends with, though, like you, that I've kept in touch with, usually something reminds me of that person. And so instead of going like, oh yeah, I remember I went to that sushi place with Emily Morse once. And then not do anything. I'm like, oh, I try to develop the habit of whipping out my phone right away and being like in the moment. Cause Jen does all the drive, my wife does all the driving. So I'm like in the passenger seat and I'll be like, oh. And I'll check what time zone I'm in. Cause if it's like Hawaii and it's like 4 o' clock in the morning where you are, I'm not gonna do it. But I'll be like, hey, what's going on? And I don't say like I past the sushi restaurant and your office and didn't call you. I'll just be like, hey, what are you up to? It's been a minute. And I don't worry about the amount of time that's gone by. And I think these little habits are really the difference between somebody who can keep a thousand relationships going or 200 or whatever versus somebody who's just like, gee, where did the time go? Can you sell my. Can I come on your new serious show and sell my dog grooming ebook to your audience?

And you're like, where have you been my whole life? Right now you want to talk to me, right?

You must get that all the time.

I do, yeah, I do get that. But I'm not. Here's the thing. Like I, I feel like I did a lot of networking early on. I always had all the business cards and the follow me that that now thank God business cards are gone because those were kind of stressful.

Super. Right? You have a stack. You have to email everyone.

500,000. I went to therapy about it. She was like, just burn them. I was moving to la. I'm like, I have so many friggin because they were stressing me out. How do you follow through? How do you do all the things?

Yeah, I mean you could scan them and a CRM would email them automatically for you.

I scan them. I did not burn them. But I talked about it all the time because I had all those loose ends. Those loose.

We know who that someone is now, right? Like Jamie's over here.

Like Jamie didn't do It.

I hate my life.

It predated Jamie.

Okay.

No, but I'm just saying that it is an important skill. And even if you're. If you're dating, you're meeting new friends, if you're, like, just keeping up with people and following through with my thing, this is what stops me from it. I'm like, okay, so I'll text those four people. Cause I think about this, but I'm like, I always feel like the end thing's gonna be like, let's grab lunch. Let's grab dinner.

People are afraid of that. Yeah.

I don't want to make plans with everybody.

Amen.

I want to go home. No, I hear you have dinner with everybody.

We have dinner plans tonight, though.

No, you're someone I want to have dinner with.

Okay. Are you sure?

No, Jordan, I asked you because my time is so valuable that I feel like I used to be like, yeah, let's get drinks.

Even if you do say so yourself. Right. My time is so valuable.

I just don't want to hang out, people.

No, I hear. I hear you, though. No, you're right. Here's the fear. This is an unfounded look. I get it. It's an unfounded fear, though.

You should actually feel good that I'm choosing to have dinner.

I do, because your time is so valuable.

But, like, I couldn't do a great show if I was out every single night.

You can't. No, it's true. Here's the thing. People go, I don't want to have coffee with all these people. Let me just. Let me just reassure you. Most people don't want to do that either. So they'll be like, great. Here's how the texting re. Engage drill that we just talked about. I'll send those texts. 70% of the people respond. 30% don't. Of those 70, I'll be like, hey, what are you up to? And they're like, yeah, I moved to Albuquerque with my wife, and I got two dogs, and I'm training dogs now. And I'm like, wow, that's so random. Do you ever get up to San Jose, la. Like, do you travel? No, I had kids, and I just sit at home with the kids and dogs. I'm like, that's really cool. Well, let me know if I can help with anything. They're like, yeah, same to you, man. Are you still doing your podcast? Yeah, I'll have to check it out sometime. The end, right? Most people are not like, let's get coffee. And they are, but. Well, that's because your time is so valuable and in demand. But if. If they say that you. You'll be like, hey, I'm always traveling around and doing. You know, I'm always slam. But I just wanted to read, like, touch base. You don't have to be like, no, I'd rather not get coffee. And you also don't have to be like, crap. Now I have to say, yes, this.

Is what I'm saying.

So.

But that's a good. That's a good tactic.

Yeah.

You know, I just don't do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Because you're afraid that they're gonna be like, let's meet up. When people say, let's meet up, I'm often like, why? If I'm ever in your area and we're doing something, I will give you a buzz. And what I mean by that is, if I go to Austin, Texas, all these people, I will invite, like, 14 people to dinner, and none of them will want to go. And the four people that show up, I'm like, great, and I'll catch up with them. Then those people who are like, hey, let's get coffee. I'm like, hey, I was in your neighborhood, like, a year ago.

You're right. That's really smart to actually group them and be like. Or sometimes I do that here too. I'll have with my friends. I'll say, yeah, why don't I be effective? And then have them all, like, together. Like here. These five people are all similar. Or they're all my industry. And let's all meet up for coffee.

Yeah.

So what about in dating? I want to talk to you about this, because when you're on the apps, right. Most people, a lot of people are dating on the apps now, or they're. They're meeting new people and relationships. And I do believe that it's a great. If you're looking to meet someone, that it's good to date several people at once. I think that's important and effective.

I agree with you.

Don't just hook up with the first person. This was great sex. And then for a year goes by, and you realize that, what. That's not the right person for me.

Yeah.

But if you're doing that, what happened to me? I did get a little overwhelmed. I might be jumping back into that.

You got overwhelmed? I can't even imagine what that's like. Yeah. I think this is what I love about you. You're super efficient. But then that efficiency also makes you be like, why did I do this to myself? Exactly. If they know One thing about you, it's probably going to be something like that happen.

How do you figure that out? How do you manage it? Like a new relationship or dating even. How do you get into that?

Management of the thing with me for dating back in the day was. And I know this sounds super obvious. That is so. Could not be further from the truth.

How to be ladies man.

Yes. Those who can't do, teach, right? Isn't that what they say? Well, exactly.

So that's what I was doing about my sex life.

Yeah, it's. Yeah. Okay, I'm not even gonna go there.

So you can do it. Oh, you're gonna bring up that terrible guy I dated?

No, I'm not gonna do it. Not on your show. That would just be mean.

So one thing that I found was really fun for me was just being really honest. And my brother in law is really good at this. Women, like, women are always trying to lock down my brother in law all the time. And they'll like jump through crazy gymnastic hoops to be like, I'm gonna make him jealous. His name's Glenn. They'll be like, I'm gonna make him jealous. I'm gonna talk about this, I'm gonna make. And it sort of works. But then we're. Me and Jen, my wife are always like, she's doing this to make you jealous. She's doing this so that you do that. She's doing that. So it's really fun to outline this and highlight it. But what's really working well for him that you can't fight is the honesty factor. He'll be like, yeah, I'm dating a lot of women right now. And women who are cool and are willing to like sort of be take it slow at a normal pace, they're like, okay, understandable. And the ones that are a little like too demanding, they're like, well, you have to choose me now. And if you don't choose me now after like real talk, like two dates, then I'm not gonna move from this other part of the country to where you. And I'm like, good, let them go. Those are people who are gonna like control your life.

Right. I think that's a really good point because I think in dating we do this a lot. We go into it wanting everyone to like us and to convince them all that we're the one. And we're not even sure that we wan with this person.

Exactly.

So it's so important to weed that out. Like if someone's doing something making you feel like making you feel bad or putting all these demands on you or they just don't match up with your bottom line issues or what you're looking for. Like, yeah, we're all early on because.

We'Re all trying to be liked. Yeah, good point. I, you know, on that note, we're all trying to be like, I'm sure this happens to you. I remember when I was dating, I would go out with somebody that I didn't like at all and I would be like, wait, they don't like me? This is, this is bullshit. Yeah, I got it. And, and like I went out with a match, this matchmaker who hooked me up with a couple of her clients once. And she's like, look, these clients want refunds. Can you go out with them? Because I'm introducing them to these guys and nothing's clicking and I think they'll like you. And I would go out on dates with them and they'd be like, yeah, they liked you. And I'm like, oh, shoot, I don't really want to go out with them again. And they're like, oh, okay. And then one person would be like, yeah, she doesn't want a second date. And I would be like, wait, what? Why? Meanwhile, I just got done complaining about how crappy this date was for like an hour to my roommate.

It's our ego. Like, how dare you don't want me when I get definitely don't want you. But that does not feel good, right?

Like, no, you're supposed to like me and I'm supposed to reject you. Not, not mutual rejection, not the other way around. And then you realize how dumb that is.

Exactly. It's true, we all do that. But I think it's really important to look at it and be like, okay, yeah, I don't want this person anyway. So lay it out early on what you're. What you're looking for in a partner and let him know, like your brother in law. Is he single? Where does he live?

He's single. He lives in San Jose, California. Saratoga to be exact.

But I like him.

He's great. He is really fun. He's athletic, good looking guy, he's smart, he's really good at designing things and he's got a decent job.

Okay, that's awesome. Okay, so. But, but in dating, so. Okay, because I know that with finding people, managing them, being honest or being honest early on, managing them, what am I saying? Managing people you're dating. But that is something for me that just, I guess it is just a matter of. Hold on, I Don't wanna talk about that anymore. Okay. What else do we want to.

So on that thread, Namda, I was. I envy the fact that you can.

I can do what?

That you can just stop yourself in the middle of a sentence and be like, you know what?

They don't get happy when I do it. Because sometimes they're like, that was really good. And then we can't edit it. Cause you stopped your sentence.

No, you can edit it. Just like, leave it in. I wish. There are so many times on my show where I'm like, you know what? That was a dumb thought. I'm done. And I just. And then my producer's like, well, I'll cut around it. I'm like, nah, just leave it in. I'm allowed to have a half thought, right?

Yeah, she's allowed to. That's true. We leave all this shit in here. I am so myself after all this frigging time. Yeah, but let's vote for 14 friggin years. Well, let's talk about that. Because how do you like being authentic and sharing who you really are and sharing your vulnerabilities and your truths is like such a. It's kind of a buzzword. Self help.

I know.

Yeah. All the businesses and all the people are like now. It's not just, what do they call them, thirst traps on Instagram. But they'll be like, what's that?

What's a thirst trap?

Isn't that a thing?

Right? Okay. It's like, it's like a. It's like a girl. It's like a. It's like a, you know, a woman in a super sexy photo. And then she'll be like, I used to be really insecure. I had abuse growing up or I had trauma. Like there. It's still, it's still a sexy photo, but everyone's talking about their vulnerabilities and being authentic and being in truth. But it's not necessarily the thirst trap. I'm saying in general, that was just a separate thought.

Why is it called a thirst trap?

Because it's like for a lot of times, like, there's no other reason for this person or guy, man or woman to post this super sexy photo them. Except to get a lot of likes, which.

Okay, yeah. You know, it's funny, I just saw something like this the other day and I was talking about it with a bunch of my friends where somebody I know had like a kind of a traumatic breakup and she announced it in a photo of her, like getting out of a pool. And it's like, her wearing a swimsuit. It's like her butt is the photo getting her wet butt. And people are posting like, so you're sort of dealing with this breakup by posting your wet ass on Instagram.

Not a bad strategy.

And I'm just like, yeah, good point. Like, and she's like, I see strength in the. And I feel. I totally see her side, but I also see the other side of, like, how much of this is, like, attention. Because I feel like if you're sharing something really vulnerable, it's like you laying on the couch looking at the camera directly. Not. I just worked out your makeup.

You're like, yeah, exactly. Like, here's what I'm doing. Here's what I'm sharing.

Thirst trap.

It's a good one, right? So using that, you can use that on your. You can totally use that. So. But what do you. But don't you think that that is a thing right now? About.

The. More, like, being like, probably things that you talk about on your show is like, how do people relate to people that you're meeting? You have to be your most authentic self. So how do you show up, whether you're on a date or in a meeting? You know, be making good first impressions, walking in the room, like, what you thought about relationships?

I do. I do. I like the authenticity topic because it is tricky, right? Because there's people on Instagram who are like, I'm just gonna be authentic. And then it reminds me of the be. If you've seen that movie, Jumanji. Have you seen that? You. You haven't?

I don't. Dude, I missed out on, like, 30.

It's recent. The rewind, not the Robin Williams one. I haven't even seen that one. So there's this. There's a girl in the beginning. She's taking a photo that's precious. And she's like, I know your time is very valuable. And she's taking a selfie, and she, like, corrects this. Corrects this other thing, corrects this lighting, corrects her hair, and then takes a photo. And then the caption is, like, just rolled out of bed or something like that. And it takes, like, the whole first five minutes of the movie is her trying to stage this photo. So the authenticity thing is weird because people are trying to claim and look as authentic as possible, but they're really not. They're kind of. It's kind of like a. You know, when I'm trying to draw an analogy here, let's see if I screw this up, you know, when the Bullfighter, the matador, has the red cape, and he drags. Waves it in front of the bull, and the bull charges it, and then he moves out of the way. I feel like that's what the authentic city thing is, where it's like, I'm being so authentic with the red cape over here. And like, look, I'm authentic. I'm authentic. But really, it's like, oh, just kidding. I'm not. I'm wearing full makeup. There's lighting. Six people took this photo shoot. It took five hours. We have 30 retouched photos of this authentic moment where I'm supposedly eating, like, strawberries and cereal, except for it's a piece of plastic because it wouldn't have lasted that long in the milk.

Totally.

Right.

And please buy my. Whatever I'm selling.

Oh, and also Lister. Hashtag Listerine or something.

Yeah, exactly. Right. And how do you put. So in all these people you've interviewed that in the last. I mean, you invite a lot of. You've interviewed tons of leaders, successful people all over, in all different walks of life. So, I mean, that's a lot. And you're doing a few podcasts a week, right?

Three. Yeah.

Dude, that's so impressive.

Well, you're. You're five days a week, which I think is amazing, because my Friday show is me answering listener questions.

Yeah, that's a good one.

And that's kind of like your bag, right? Yeah, we're going to. When you come on my show, we're going to do one of those.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because I get these questions that are like, I'm having Emily answer this.

Yeah, don't do it. I'll be on. I'll come on and do it. But I'm saying, like, what if. So is there any commonalities that you've noticed through your God? It seems like everyone is, for example, meditating or.

Oh, my God. I know. Do you meditate? You should, because it's. Let me tell you, it's life changing. I'm just kidding. I do not. I don't do it.

Tell me to, like, color coat my folders, and I should get a label maker and write everything down. People try to calm me down. They're like, maybe you should make a list.

Yeah, let's get Marie Kondo in here. We'll get Marie Kondo in here for you.

I binge on it last night.

Do you really? You know. You know what you and her have in common? You both have just that touch of crazy that allows her to. I like your brand. Her brand. Scares me a little. I feel like she crazy.

She's Japanese. How is she crazy? She's just.

Maybe it's that. Maybe it's just that I feel like.

There'S just everything away. Yeah.

Yeah. Is that not.

That's not weird to throw everything. No, I think she's right. I think that our things. I think that we are such a consumer, you know, society that we have to buy, buy, buy. We have too much crap. We don't know where it is or too much.

It says the person with a garage full of dildos.

They're going to get more organized after Marcondo.

They're color coded now.

Color coded, though. They're pretty amazing. Yeah. Jordan did come by and do a thing. He got all my dildos a few years ago. Yeah. All of them. Several. But. But all the people that you're interviewing, is there anything you're like, oh, wow, that's actually shaped you for, I mean.

Talking to three people a week.

I mean, and editing and the whole thing all the time. You've been in it for a year for.

Yeah. The new show.

Years of interview.

12 years of interviews.

12 years of interviews. But this the Jordan Har. You're the guy.

Yeah.

It's reading the books. You're doing the prep.

That's the, that's the thing. I do spend like 10 hours prepping each interview.

Each interview.

And so I'll read the whole book. I'll remember, like when I interviewed Mike Rowe, who you probably know from San Francisco, I was trying to find friends of his that he went to college with and like ask Mike Rose stories that haven't been on shows before, like, I really dig and it like to the up to the line of creepy to try to figure out what makes that person tick. And so of course, those people, they're. Their characteristics, their traits, they do rub off. So you kind of have to be careful because if you interview a lot of. I went a couple years ago, I went down this road where I was like, let me interview all these like, influencers and these marketer people. And you know, those people are kind of skeevy. A lot of them, not all of them, but a lot of them are kind of gross. And so I found myself getting into a mode where I was like, oh, I'll just exaggerate that and like, do that. And it was totally because I was invited, immersed in the world of like, Internet fake bs and now I'm well away from that. And it's. It makes you happier. It's just like if you use Instagram too much. You're like, oh, it's okay to, like.

Photoshop this out. Let me do a filter where I look like I don't have a zit or like, I'm thinner or whatever. Like, it's just. It's dishonest. But you. When you're surrounding yourself with a certain quality or caliber of person, the mores or morals or whatever of that group can really rub off on you. And I think this business guy, Jim Rohn, who's since passed away, said you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Something like that.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, guys, we're gonna take a quick break, and we come back more. Jordan.

Do you think at this point in life that you pretty much are Jordan Harbinger and there isn't that much of an impact, or have you learned?

No, I think there. I think I'm constantly. Here's what I. You know, it's funny you should ask. A few years ago, I was like, I'm done. I know who I am. None of this stuff is gonna affect me. And now I've come to this conscious level where I'm like, oh, yeah, all this stuff affects me. You've gotta be really careful. And so one of my personal mottos, I guess you would say, or slogans, is protect your mind. And what I mean by that is, you can't hang out with, like, dirty people who smoke and, like, wake up late and play video games all the time and be like, this isn't gonna influence me. It does.

So glad I broke up with my ex.

Right?

That's what he did.

Yeah. They're glad, too. I'm sure. They're like, oh, my God, she's turning into.

He did that. He was. I know what you're saying. People who don't have the same. That was terrible to say, but they're waking up. You're right. If they're not doing the same things, they're not up before 11.

Yeah, right. Yeah. And you can't avoid that. And it's. There's. There are all these studies that show that. You probably read this, actually. I'm gonna try to remember what this is. There was some study or set of studies that shows that if you. Let's say so you and I are friends. Let's say that you're. And you're friends with Jamie, and let's say that Jamie has a bunch of, like, five friends that eat chicken wings every night and pizza, and they're, like, overweight.

She does. And I've been telling her not to hang out. Yeah. But anyway, go ahead.

And so there are studies that show that second and third, third order friends. So like me and you, friends with her. We will also gain an average bit of weight by being. Even though we don't know those people. So let's say Jamie has some, let's just be unkind and say like overweight friends. Okay. And then you and I will secondary tertiary, whatever it's called. We will suffer consequences of those people's lifestyle choices. It's called a network effect. And there's some other thing associated with it. But this is not just like some woo woo bs. There's science that shows that this is. And this happens with eating, it happens with smoking, I think was the other thing they tested. And financial stuff as well.

Like you're gonna make the same amount.

It's not, it's not earning. I think it's how you spend the money. So like, even if you're a well compensated investment banker, if your friend's friend or your friend's friend's friend is like some dude who spends all of his money on cocaine and works at a bowling alley, you're going to have financial network effects because of that, which is incredibly disappointing.

That is disappointing. So how do you know before you make a friend, you gotta scout out their friends and be like, I mean, I guess you just sorta get it.

I think what it is is you just have to really hone yourself to be able to go, hey, I don't like the influence that this person is having on me. Even if you previously would've thought this person doesn't have an influence on me, like, oh, I'm not being influenced by Jamie. I only see her occasionally. And it's like, well, wait a minute, I'm probably getting this negative influence from somewhere. And I noticed that the good news is this is true the other way around as well. So if all of your friends are fit and you're like, hey, let's go out to dinner. And they're like, great, I'm ovo, lacto, vegan, paleo, gluten free. You're like, gah, right? But then you start eating southwest chicken salads all day. And then you're like, oh, these are pretty good. Because since they're all into that, they're not, you're not eating like cardboard. They know where to get the good stuff. And you're like, oh, this is good. I feel good doing this. Hey, maybe I won't order a soda because I would be the only person ordering a soda and everyone else here is jacked and fit. You'll get rid of those habits and you'll build these habits. And we see positive influence. It's just that when it comes to negative influence, we often think that we're immune and we are not.

We are not. We don't even see these negative influences. And then they can like kind of wreak havoc on our, on our confidence in who we are. We gotta like, it's really brave to look around and kind of shed those friends at people that aren't serving you anymore. It is weeding process.

It is cutting people out of your life sucks. And you know, the classic example of this is Oprah and this is an old ass example. But do you remember when she lost all that weight in like the 90s?

The first time she dragged all the fat on stage? Yeah, yeah.

Well, like the 80s, maybe it, maybe.

When was it she dragged like 50 pounds of fat.

It's like super vomit inducing grossness. Well, she gained a bunch of it back. And I remember one of the Optifast. What is it?

I don't remember the name.

Optifast.

Optatrim or something.

Oh, yeah, maybe you're right. There was something like that. Dexatrim. That was some 80s stuff. That was the diet pills. But she gained a bunch of it back. And one of the reasons that I think she had cited was her friends had all kind of given her endless amounts of shit. And I'm sure they don't, they weren't like, oh crap, we want you to be fat again. But it was like, oh, we're going out to lunch. And she's like, screw it. We're all getting a big ass Chicago style deep dish pizza. I'm not gonna be the person who gets a salad. And then they were like, hey, come to our party. And it's like, great, we have mayonnaise buckets for, you know, or something. So you have to, you have to eat this too. And that she gained it all back. And it's like, well, how did that happen? I was on a diet. I was doing so well. It's network effects.

It's influence, support of her peers and stuff. Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

And it happens with dating.

It, it does happen with dating. Well also, I think that people are so confused. Like, you know, how do you find. How do I find my person or how do I. It's like when we say the advice like, go out and do things that you love doing. Hang out with people that you actually enjoy, you know, Even if it is a networking or a business thing or a hobby, at least you know you're starting somewhere with something that you're actually enjoying rather than just going to a sports bar to pick up guys. That's what you're into. Or going, I'm going to hang out at the mall. Like, all those silly things you don't want. You want to be doing the things you actually are doing.

Agree. Oh, that's such good advice. I wish I had known that. Right. So when people ask me for this, how do I. If they move to a new town and they're like, how do I build a social circle? One of the main things I always say is, make a list of maybe like, five things you've always wanted to learn. And I don't care what it is. Like, oh, I wanted to learn how to dance salsa and cook Italian food and go skydiving. And then maybe I'll take, like, golf lessons. Write those things down. Find classes in your area or clubs in your area that do that and do those. And it's not just like, join a club. Like, that's lame advice. Because a lot of the. But if you take classes, the worst thing that happens at the end of the class, even if you don't meet any people of the same sex or the opposite sex, is you just learned a skill. So you start to make yourself better as a person, and so you're not wasting the time.

Exactly.

So you take an interior design class and you're like, oh, I didn't really meet anybody here that I like. Okay, but now you have this new skill.

Now you can decorate your home or whatever. No, you're absolutely right. So I think it's important to say, yeah, it's true. I think about that a lot. And I have been reevaluating a lot of people as they come into my life and thinking about, you know. Yeah, you get to a certain level, you move through things. Okay, but let's talk about confidence. Okay.

Okay.

So, like, a lot of the people that you speak to on your show or just in life, like, how do you explain. Because I know you talk about. In. We do. We always talk about being confident or going in the room or holding yourself high or body language. Like, all those things kind of factor into confidence. That, like, when we're dating, even, how do you. How do we feel? Like, I. Because I always say, it's an inside job. You got to work on yourself. But how do you actually explain that?

Sure.

So what's your best tips for that?

One of the one of the things that I do is I teach people. I call this the doorway drill. And essentially, well, a lot of people think that their first impression is made when they open their mouth. And I'm sure you get this all the time. Like, oh, how do I start a conversation? What do I say? What do I do? And the truth is, none of that matters at all. Because. And you know this as a woman, your first impression, especially as a guy, is made when you're a blip on their radar. So guys are like, ugh, I need to, like, sit over here, have like, four drinks, and then figure out some clever thing to say. Meanwhile, you're sitting there with your friends, and you're like, these guys are total weirdos. They're sitting over there getting super hammered, staring at us. They're staring at us. Inevitably, one's gonna like, send, like, the brave guy over here, and he's gonna be like, hey, girls, what's up? And you're gonna be like, ugh.

Exactly.

And then by the. So he goes up and. Right. So he goes up and does that and is like, oh, man. I guess my cool, clever line didn't work because they were not responsive to that because the first impression was made 25 minutes ago when they walked in and ordered, like, six rum and Cokes and a Jager bomb for themselves. Right? It is. It so is. So the doorway drill is knowing that your first impression is made when you're a blip on. When you become a blip on somebody else's radar when they first. First notice you. It's all nonverbal communication. And if you don't believe that your first impression is made nonverbally, then go walk down the street, go to the mall, and just listen to the voice in your head. That, like, judgy thing that keeps you safe where you're, like, tall, attractive, skinny, tattoos, fat. Like, your brain does that. Even if you're, quote, unquote, not judgmental. Your brain is doing that because that's what your brain does all the time. It evaluates things really quickly. So now that you've proven to yourself that the first impression is made non verbally, that means that when you walk in the door, that's your first impression that you're making on pretty much everybody that sees you. So what I do and what I tell people to do, if they come to me for stuff like this is every time you walk through a doorway, like, straighten up your body language, chin up, chest up, smile on your face, shoulders back. You don't have to exaggerate it, you know, like, you'll look weird, right? But just do that every time you walk through a door. Of course, now the problem is you're gonna walk through a doorway right after hearing this and be like, oh, I forgot to do that thing. So take these post it notes. You know, the little ones that are useless, they only put like two letters fit on them. Take those, stick them up at I. They're in your garage next to the purple dildos. So stick those up at eye level indoors that you go through, like in your office, the restroom, your bedroom, your house, whatever. Stick it up at eye level. You don't have to write anything on it. Because then when you walk in through the doorway, be like, why is there a green post it note at eye level on the side of the door? Oh, right, I'm supposed to straighten up and reset my body language. And so you create this habit every time you walk through the door after you see these post it notes. And so that upright, open, positive, confident body language becomes your default posture and your default nonverbal communication. And so what this does is then you. Yeah, I know, everyone like, sitting up straight. Everyone's sitting up straight. What this does is then next time you walk into a room, you don't have to be like, oh, I better straighten up and stand up straight and da, da. Because if you try to control your nonverbal first impression without making it a habit, now we're having a conversation and I'm like, oh, wait, was I slouching? Oh, wait, sit up straight. And then I'm like, crap, I haven't been listening to. Yeah, I haven't been listening to what she said. Oh, shoot. I haven't been listening. Shoot. Wait, sit up straight again. You. You can't manually control it in the moment. It just, it doesn't work. So you have to relegate it to the level of habit. And then what happens is people see you as upright, open, positive, confident in the nonverbal sense. They start to treat you differently because you look more confident, you look more positive and approachable. And then when they treat you different. One of the main ways we know how to behave among other people as social animals is the way that we're treated. And there are these improv games that are like status based, where you hold. You ever done the one where you hold a number up to your head?

Yeah, I've done improv. Yeah.

Yeah. So that people treat you a certain way and you start to act as if. Because it's just the way that we're programmed as animals. So if you create that upright, open, positive, confident body language, when you walk into rooms, people treat you that way. Your status goes up, therefore your confidence goes up, therefore your status goes up again. And then you don't have to worry about like, hey, ladies, what's going on? I've had seven Jaeger bombs. You can just be like, hey, I've never been here before. What is this, like, reinforcing it?

It becomes who you are, which I love. So when you were saying, think about listening, like, if you're constantly focusing on your body language and what someone think of you, you're not going to be a great listener. And I think one of your great skills is that you. And you're a great interview and a great listener. So how do you. Is that something that you've had to cultivate over time?

Oh, my God, yeah.

It's important for everything. I mean, I always tell people on dates and too, like, freaking listen. We all want to be listened to. So how do you. But how do you know?

Yeah, you know, one of the. There's a quote from some old. This is probably one of those apocryphal things that never happened, but it was like some prime minister of Britain a million years ago. This woman had said, when I went out with him, I thought that he was the most interesting person in all of Britain. And then when I went out with this other person, I thought I was the most interesting person in all of Britain. And so what she meant by that was, it's great if you're really interesting. It's great if you're really charismatic. It's great if you're really cool and have a high social value, high social status. It's really. It's even better if that person feels good around you because they feel like, wow, this person's really interested in me. And I think it's a Dale Carnegie thing in order to be interesting, be interested in other people.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's true. That is such a great ask question. People love talking about themselves.

Yeah. So just let them do it. And that's like the Jordan Harbinger show. Half of it is lead them into this area where that's really interesting and then just like, get the hell out of the way and like, shut the hell up and let them talk. And most interviewers will not do that, including me five years ago. And the reason I got over that was because my show's fans are really loyal and really nice and they're the kind of people that Go, Jordan. Love the show. You totally need to shut the hell up. When people are telling really interesting stories, and if you get enough of those and you put your ego aside and you realize your fans are telling you this because they want you to be better, then you kind of start doing it. And then you go, you get feedback that's positively reinforcing. Like, what I like about your show is you pick these really interesting people, you ask these really good questions, and then you don't freaking interrupt them every five minutes. And a lot of interviewers, all they do is interrupt and interject and then make, like, a dumb joke and then step on the story.

Yeah.

So I had to learn it the hard way.

Yeah, I've had to learn that too. In fact, I'm still learning that. I feel like we got. Recently, someone's like, she's interrupting the guests. I'm like, do. Do I still do that? I thought I gave that up years ago.

Meanwhile, Jamie's like.

Jamie's like every day. But you're right. That is it. That is a total. A total skill. That is something that we're all working on. And in life, it's important if you feel like you've talked more than you listen. Something to learn.

Yeah, that's a. I'm an only child, so no surprise. Now it all makes sense. Right? So I had to do a lot of talking because nobody. My mom likes to read and my dad likes watching sports on tv. So as an only child, I'm like, is this thing on? Like, is my life on? Am I important to anyone right now? Like, that's the majority of my life. Yeah.

So I think me, talk to me, right?

Totally. I think part of the reason I like having a microphone in front of me is because I'm like, people have to listen now, Right. Like, finally. So I get attention that I've craved so long, but I don't really care about that in other formats. But I really do think that it's so important. It was so important to me as a kid to, like, always be talking, to get attention that it was a really tough lesson for me to learn to, like, shut up and let other people have some spotlight.

It's a very good skill in your work and talking to all these high achievers or successful people. There is a lot lately about. And I feel this happens with sex and relationships. I do believe that we are a highly anxious and stressed out society. I don't know if it's. We're more so now because of technology, because of phones and all the distractions and than we were 15 years ago. I personally think I've been anxious since I can remember. However, that's. That's way right. Exactly. No, I'm just saying. But I'm saying. But it seemed like more and more. There was a lot more like how do we be happy? How do we be stress free? How do we be successful? So.

Right.

So what do you think? I know in a lot of your. On your podcast you interview a lot of people and just that seems to be a big thing. Like what. How would you be successful and happy and less anxious and also with sex and relationships mostly. A lot of the challenges people have around sex is that they're too friggin stressed out.

Yeah.

Get into their bodies.

I've heard, I've heard people can't even have orgasms if they're really stressed out. Or women. I guess.

Because then I have to tell you all, no, men have performance anxiety.

Oh yeah.

Most of the penis challenges that we hear about and orgasm challenges for women have to do with things going on in their head. The blood is rushing to their head, away from their genitals because they're thinking something. Am I going to come? Is my penis too. All the things no guys ever thought.

Is my penis too big, by the way? Yeah, thanks for throwing that in there. But that's, that's a. That's one.

That's for you.

That was an imagination small.

Does she think it's not big enough? That's what I meant to say. But no. I gotta tell you, in all these years we get more emails from guys whose penises are too big and it's a problem for real. A problem that not even the greatest lube in the world will fix.

Really.

But you know what I'm saying, Like how. Yeah.

Not even the greatest what in the world.

Yeah, it's painful.

I bet every guy right now is like, I want that problem.

I know exactly, you know, trade problems. But they're all problems. But what about stress and anxiety and dealing with that in a way that. What are your top tips for that that you've seen or maybe that you've learned talking to people?

You know what? I've. I deal with a lot of doctors and like health biohacking type people as well. One of the things I found is that all this stuff like you need to work out all that stuff that is so valid but most people will eat tons of crap and most people don't get enough vitamin D and sun. And even in California people are inside a lot and we look at a lot of blue lights and all that stuff triggers anxiety. Like crazy. Blue light is stuff from screens.

Yeah. And so that, like the glasses.

Super disabled. I have those. Do you have those blue blockers?

No, I bought a pair. They're probably in the garage, but I.

Didn'T use them next to the orange dildos. Yeah.

Every night when you're, Every night before you're. When you're just home working.

Yeah. Yeah. And I will tell you, if you wear them from like 7:00pm, 9:30, you're like, I'm so tired, I'm going to sleep. Because it shuts you down.

Even if you are still working, then.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good to know. And then what about, like being in relationships, what have you? How's your, how's your relationship?

Oh, my relationship's pretty good.

You guys have been together a while now?

Been together for six years. Married, working together. Totally working together all the time.

How do you do that?

You know, everybody said, don't work with your girlfriend now wife. They're like, it's gonna be a mess. I think that some people can and some people can't. And I think people think that they want to work together with their girlfriend or their wife because they kind of have to or because it'll be cheaper or because they want to spend every waking moment together because they're still in the honeymoon phase. But if the other person is not willing to sort of bend and do it, then you're in trouble for sure. And a lot of these people who create these awesome businesses together, one person is secretly miserable.

You think?

Yeah, I think so. Not always.

You're not. So not. Who's secretly miserable in your relationship?

Jen is not secretly miserable, but she's definitely like, she's like, this is your dream. This is not my dream.

Well, see, that's really hard to get the buy in from people if that's not really their dream.

Well, yeah, agree. I mean, she's doing it because she's great. She's super supportive and it's better than being like an accountant. But she's not like, this is my dream. I want to hold the camera while you interview someone. You know, that's not her thing.

That's true. I got it.

But, but I think that if I had, if, if she had a dream, it would be like, she would be like a farmer. She would have like a llama farm.

Really? That could still happen. You never know.

It will happen.

What is the dream for this year? For your, for your show, for your life? Like what's the next thing? Like, you've already top 100 podcasts.

Yeah.

And all these people.

Mic drop. Mic drop. Yeah.

No, I'm so proud and I appreciate it. Like my heart. I was like, jordan.

Yeah.

Doing it. It's amazing.

I. For me, I want to do more video. We're talking about that with you too. Going to do some video.

What do you guys think about that? Yeah, yeah. YouTube all the things.

YouTube all the things. Maybe do some live stuff. I like that. I also will be doing some live events because we're teaching some like police military intelligence stuff, like verbal, non Verbal communication. I want to open that up to civilians. I think that would be really cool.

Yeah.

And I, I realized the last couple of years, I love interviewing. I love doing the show. I'm just going to lean into to that. Take it to the video. I love it. I love it.

Favorite thing.

It's my favorite thing.

Oh, good, Jordan. Well, you seem really well and I'm so proud of you and all of your success.

Thank you.

So everyone can check it out. They can check out where you're going to be visiting their cities. You have to check out their podcast. His podcast.

Yeah.

The Jordan Harbinger show.

Yeah. Or Harbinger show. Whatever. Whatever makes it easier for you to spell. It's that.

And this is also going to be in. In the show notes and everywhere on the site. Okay, I've got my five quickie questions for you.

Let's do it.

We ask everyone. Ready? What's your biggest turn on?

Oh, somebody who is. God damn it. I'm not really quick right now. Intelligence. But there's got to be other stuff, right? It can't be like an ugly person with. Who's just really smart. But like mean to waiters. No.

Okay, got it.

Biggest turn off mean to waiters.

True, right?

It's one of my biggest things. Yeah. And not just servers. Just mean to like flight attendants.

Like, if they're mean, that that is a sign not to cut off the cookies. But like, literally, if somebody is mean on your first date, my mom always says the issues you have in the third date, you have forever. People show you who they are, believe them for sure. And you know, triggered in your stomach and you feel it like, don't go on the other date.

This is one of those things. I know. It's quicky. I'll be done.

We're good.

Those. There's these things that people do that they think are like. They're like, oh, this is just something that I do. And it's like, as an adult, it's not cool anymore. And one of those things is, oh, I'm just an asshole. It's like who I am, bro. No, you're immature. You want attention. It's not cool anymore. It was cool in middle school. You were like a rebel guy or like the woman whose profile is like, I'm a bitch. Deal with it. It's like, no, you're immature and you're a bad person. I'm not dealing with that. You deal with that.

So true. You grow up and you. You've grown up so much, Jordan. I've known you.

I thank God.

You've really matured a lot.

Thank you.

I mean, I hope I help you, but, I mean, I don't know if you have.

Yeah, you were already mature back then.

No, no, no. But you really, like. I really. I mean, I'm just so impressed because, I mean, I guess we met, like 12 years ago. You were doing other topics and. Yeah, and I just. I just. I'm really just. Just into a man of integrity.

Thank you.

And talent. Okay, so something random that turned you on?

Oh, something random that turns me on. I was. I feel like I just had this the other day.

It was. You know what? My wife. My wife is really capable. I think capable is a turn on.

Yeah, absolutely. Change a tire to your website.

She's one of those people who's like, you know, I actually just negotiated this, and then I got this other free thing, and then I set this thing up, and then now I'm gonna go build something, and I'm like, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I know. Yeah. If we ever run into problems, she's gonna go work somewhere else.

Perfect. Date night.

Oh, God, this is so sad. Sitting on my butt with my cat and my wife and, like, watching something and talking about it or listening to a really good podcast and talking about it.

What's your other favorite podcast? Besides mine?

Besides yours? Yeah. You know, my wife finds these true crime ones that I normally don't like.

They're great.

Jamie likes those.

Yeah, we all do. I think they. They totally suck you in when I have time for them.

Have you heard Dirty John?

Yes. Yeah, it's a TV show.

That's creepy, though, this guy.

Yeah.

Yeah, she loves Dirty John.

We all love Dirty John. Okay, what's your number one? You can pick this Sex, dating relationship tip.

Sex, dating relationship. Just be honest about the thing that you think is gonna hurt the other person's feelings, because one, it's gonna come out later. They're Gonna be super pissed. You're already gonna have this investment in them 2. If you mention it early on and you're kind enough about it, they're probably gonna respect it. Like, if someone's late and then they're late again and you're like, hey, you know, if you're gonna be always late, it's gonna drive me crazy. Is that a thing that we can work on? And they're like, you know what? I hate that about myself. Problem kind of starting to become solved. If you wait until you're six months in and you're like, you know what? You're always late f you. You're a terrible person. You don't care about anyone else but yourself. Then they're like, whoa, where did that come from? And then they're defensive about it. And now you can't solve the problem because if they're on time, they're like, I'm not doing it for you. Okay? Because now you've got to fight.

I've had to learn these kind because I am a people pleaser. I don't feel not to like me. And I learned all the stuff you say on the show. You eventually start to take your own advice. Yeah, yeah. People appreciate it, you know, hey, day by day, thank you so much, Jordan, for being on the show and everyone, check out his podcast and thanks for being here. All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this show. Thank you so much for listening and to my amazing team, Ken, Samantha, Julia, Michelle, producer, Jamie and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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