New Podcast, Who Dis? with Jordan Harbinger

Okay, so let's talk about one of my favorite ways to upgrade your solo or partner play. It is the Hera by Jiu. It's a sleek, powerful rabbit vibrator that's basically the best of both worlds. It's incredible for internal stimulation and those rumbly, mind blowing clitor vibes Jaejoo is known for. Here's what I love. The external ears are powered by the same motor as the Mimi, which you've heard me rave about before. I love the Mimi. And the internal arm delivers deep, satisfying vibrations right to your G spot. It's super so soft, ultra quiet, and it moves with your body. So whether you're using it solo or with a partner, it has this feel like it's made just for you. And honestly, it's kind of a no brainer. Everyone loves the hera and right now you can get 20 off the hera using code emily20@sexwithemily.com hera that's emily20 for 20 off at sexwithemily.com h e r a so if you've been looking for a toy that delivers powerful blended orgasm with thoughtful design and serious quality, this is it. So go treat yourself. You deserve it. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm hosting my OG podcast friend, Jordan Harbinger, host of the Jordan Harbinger Show. We're talking all aspects of relationships. Topics include why keeping score in relationships is an unhealthy practice, tips for maintaining relationships in life and work, how to keep motivated when you're going through a devastating breakup, the importance of men learning to be vulnerable in all areas of their life, not just the intimate ones, and why it's totally natural to feel the grass is always greener and what to do about it. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them, in a bygone day.

Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Because my man e here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards. Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh, my God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships and everything in between. For more Information. Check out everything we have going on@sexwithemily.com cause there's a lot. Right, Jamie. Jamie's here to tell you about it because she makes it all happen.

Yes, there is a lot going on.

We've got a lot of great writers on the site. Go ahead.

We have a lot of great writers. We have people in house. We have some people that are just part of the team. We also have been revamping our YouTube page. So you should definitely go to YouTube.com sexwithemily and subscribe. Because actually a video that just came out with Zoe Ligon on the show recently.

That was a fun show.

It was great. They were hilarious together. Both from Michigan. But they did. They did extra videos. So we have a video coming up on things to unlearn from porn. And it is as hilarious as it is informative.

True that. Nothing wrong with porn. Love a good porn every now and then. But there's a lot of stuff in there shouldn't be doing. And we tell you about it.

But yeah. So that's on YouTube. Check it out. Learn a lot. Go down a rabbit hole. We all know how people like to do that.

I think our blogs are awesome right now. You mean on YouTube? Are you talking about YouTube?

But you could go down a rabbit hole.

I think our site is amazing too. I think that we have so many great people working with us and writing interest that you guys will actually like and learn from.

And if you ever have a question that you want to get answered, literally you can go to our site and search mismatched libidos and podcasts and blogs will come up with all of this information.

If you want to know how to rock Woman on Top, for example, there's.

Literally a blog called Exactly.

Called how to Rock the Woman on Top. Because I get it. It's challenging. Not every woman wants to be on top every time. Or man. Sometimes you just don't want to be moving around on the top or you don't have the confidence or. Or you're not sure how to do it. We can help you with a lot of these things. So even before you were saying, before you go in all the effort of writing the question, we might have answered it.

Exactly.

Especially when you DM me, which I love your DMs. We read them all. But sometimes that's another great place to look at if we've already answered it.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And don't be discouraged if you don't get replied to right away. Emily just gets a lot.

Here's the Other thing I want to say, I so appreciate when you guys all subscribe and comment on itunes. It really helps us when you subscribe to the podcast. I read all your comments. I love them. And this week's review is from Rush to Danger. Emily is the kind of host you immediately fall in love with. Her caring and thoughtful insight into human sexuality is broad and up to date. Emily keeps up with the latest trends in sexual behavior and dating habits. No subject is taboo. From anal sex to bdsm, sex with Emily knows it all. I'm both a fan and a student. This is one podcast everyone needs to listen to. Seriously, the world would be a better contra place if we were all having better sex. That's awesome. Thank you, Rush. Danger. And he's so not on the payroll, but maybe we should hire him because he's my biggest fan. Thank you for that, you guys. And also, really, I do read them all and I appreciate it. And I appreciate you also sign up for our weekly newsletter. It's awesome. I do give great newsletter. I've heard. I don't want to brag. People really like it. Follow me on social media. It's all sexwithemily on Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, and Twitter. And we're always posting. You know, we have new episodes. Everything is happening in the office. Little snippets behind the scenes. Jamie and I trying live. Trying clitoral gel live. You can watch that on Instagram if you missed it. That was fun. We should repost that every week. We should try every week. Another something live.

Yeah, they have.

First of all, unlike a cam girl, like, we're not gonna get naked. Yeah.

It's gonna be very, like, you know, safe for work.

Safe for work.

Instructional, but still sexy at the same time. What does that mean? You'll have to watch.

You'll have a safe, sexy work day. I think you actually are a lot more productive too, when you have a little safe, sexy fun in the middle of the day. I've heard that some study.

You'll also be more productive if you use clitoral gel. If you're a person has a clitoris.

That clitoral gel is like clitorol. It's like Adderall for your clitoris, but like, in a good way.

Yeah. Without harmful.

Without the comedown. And you know what it is about the clitor? Okay. We're talking about Joe's clitoral gel, which I'm obsessed with. They have like atomic and spicy. Spicy. It was spicy. Buzzy.

No, warm and buzzy is what we Tried Spicy is the super hot one. And then there's, like, atomic is like super cold.

And here's the thing. And it gives you this little buzzy sensation. And it felt great. Turned me on. I got home and my clitoris still felt very much alive. Not so much warm and buzzy, but just like, hey, I'm here. And I felt much more attached and connected to it. We're actually talking about Joe's Warm and Buzzy, which you can check out@sexwithemily.com Joe because I'm sure you wanna know what the hell we're talking about. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this interview with Jordan. We had a lot of fun and I know you're going to learn a lot. Thanks for listening. I'm really excited for my friend Jordan Arpinger to be on the show right now. I can't say his last name, but we've been friends for a really long time and it's been a while. Like, we were the OG podcasters.

That's right. When I started my show in 2006, I remember your show being in the category that I joined, which I think was like, self help or something.

On itunes.

Yeah, in itunes. And you're the only show that I know that still exists from those days at all.

Right. We're talking, what, 11, how many years ago?

It's 11 and a half.

Almost 12 years.

Yeah, almost 12 years. Because we were before Corolla, before Rogan.

Before we were like just two lone people sitting out there on itunes. Podcasts. And you remember you had to dig to find podcasts on itunes.

There's all text navigation, so you had to click, like, podcasts, health dash, self help, and then it was like a text list. It's like Sex with Emily and then a bunch of other people that don't exist.

Exactly. And now it's us. We are the last men and women.

That's right.

From the old days. So I'm so glad that you're here and visiting.

Likewise.

And you have a new podcast.

It's called the Jordan Harbinger show, because Harbinger. I'm really creative with naming things, so I just decided to use my own name.

Right, that's good. No, that makes. That makes sense. Sex has become my name. I didn't know that I was okay with Emily Morris. And then when you started sex with Emily and now you're like, oh, you're the sex girl. Hey, sex.

Yeah.

And when you're out and about, I didn't really think there'd be such a thing.

Do people spot you and they're like, oh, you're the sex. You're the sex.

Yeah. Which is hard, though. Like, I like it sometimes when they're like, oh, my God, are you sex with Emily? However, when I'm, like, at a restaurant or at a bar and there's a cute guy, my friend's like, oh, come meet him. This is sex with Emily. What's he gonna think ahead of time? Right? It already starts with, like, oh, cool, I'll learn sexy. Yeah. Do I want to banger because of that? But you don't have to worry about that with Jordan.

No.

Nobody wants a great reputation. Tell me about your new show.

So I take high. Performers are interesting folks. Like, CIA agent will teach us how to read people. I'm having Larry King on to talk about the art of conversation. Or I'll have somebody on to teach us. Like, I'll have a general on how do you make tough decisions that involve people's lives? And I get these practical tips, and I make worksheets for the listeners so that they can do. It's like, nerd stuff. Right. They can do homework, because everybody loves a little homework. And they can learn these practical takeaways and apply them right away.

So that's what the show's about to. To being better performers in all areas.

Yeah, pretty much anything.

But let's talk about the relationship thing, because people don't really understand the philosophy that you have behind building relationships, keeping relationships, keeping it strong. I mean, I've always been about my friends and keeping up networks. Like, I always like to say, like, I've never burned any bridges. I'm friends with most people who I've ever worked for have worked for me. I understand. I don't know. It was just like, this innate thing. And I love. I don't. I think I can't handle anxiety and stress around relationships, so I try to.

You have anxiety and stress around other things.

Exactly. But not relationships. I have it around myself. But what I'm saying is you actually teach that to people. The importance of maintaining and valuing the people in your life. And that's such a strong currency.

It is important. Weren't you doing political stuff a million years ago?

I was in politics. Yeah, that's right.

I forgot about that. And then it just reminded me in.

San Francisco, where you're living now.

That's right.

We were talking about this. That I actually. Okay, so we're gonna go back to what you do. We will. Yeah, that's her.

We'll get there.

Oh, My God, I'm hot. So.

I'm getting naked.

Oh, that's happening already, huh? Leave mine on for now.

Cause I wanted to go.

Jordan, please.

Tell you, leave all this stuff in, right?

Oh, yeah, totally.

Okay, good. Cause I'm like, all these little breakdowns that I have. I like to leave in, too.

Well, I do sometimes. And with you I can. But what I was gonna say is that I love that I moved here. You were to Los Angeles from San Francisco, and now you're in San Francisco. I'm. Well, San Jose.

Yeah.

Do you not say San Francisco? Or you're like, I'm proudly in San Jose.

Yeah. Sometimes I do when people are. When I'm out of state, especially. But if it's in California, I don't say San Francisco. Because then people go, great, I'm there tomorrow. Let's have lunch. And I'm like, I'm not going to drive up there for you.

Good point. So it's actually to keep all these important relationships away from you.

Right, Right.

All the senses. You actually don't really want the relationship. You want to network. But on your time.

Right? Just lip service only.

Right?

Hey, let's meet up. No, I'm just saying this. I really have no intention of following through.

Right, Exactly. So don't do as he.

Don't do as I say, not as I do. Exactly. Exactly. I love meeting up with people. But I will say that lunches are the biggest time. Suck. I always say, let's do breakfast. And then people go, nah, I'm good. And then you look like, okay, well, at least I tried. Because people don't want to do breakfast. Cause they don't want to get up early. And I'm like, well, it's obviously not that important. I'll do dinner too. On a weekend. But it's so hard. Lunch. You go, all right, let's get a quick bite. But then you have three hours.

In the middle of the day. I'm already. I'm just getting. I'm just finally focused. By 11, if I have to leave for lunch at noon, forget it. My whole day's gone as lunch as ever. But I was saying. But what I was going to say is that you're wherever you are now. We won't tell. He's like, we don't actually tell your exact location.

Campbell, California, 95008.

Everybody wants to hang out with Jordan. But the last time I saw you, you came guest house that was just filled with sex toys.

So the house had a bunch. Cause you were doing your Candles.

Yes, my candlelight, which I don't have anymore, but correct.

Right.

I love them.

Love them. So we don't have to talk about the candles.

Nope.

But they were good at the time for other reasons. And then you're like, oh, hey, I want to give you some stuff. So we walked back to, like, was it a storage unit? Or, like.

It was my garage.

The garage, Right. And we open the garage, and I'm like, wow, a car won't fit in here because there's, like, cases of lube and condoms that may or may not be expired. But you're like, hey, use all these in the next week because there's a 20 million in there. And then it was like, things that inflate, things that deflate, things that inflate other things, if you know what I mean. And, like, pumps and various.

I think I gave you some liberator stuff. I gave you a spreader bar.

Yeah. And I went back and I was like, well, you gotta try all this.

You're going to Vegas.

I think, oh, yeah.

I gave you a Vegas care package because you had just started dating your now wife.

Yes, that's right.

And I really wanted it to be a special time.

And we were like, oh, we're gonna make a video. And then we used all this stuff, and we're like, we cannot be on a video with all of this stuff.

I think you promised me content and reviews if I gave you all that stuff.

Totally chickened out.

You still owe me interviews.

Still feel bad about it.

So now that we're caught up, I was just gonna say that's the last time we saw each other. Now you're in the Bay Area, wherever.

You are, and I haven't been avoiding you just because I didn't make the video. But it's probably a subconscious thing where I was like, I didn't make that video, and I feel guilty about it.

But can we talk? Okay, so let's go back to relationships, Managing relationships. Because like I said, I've always tried to keep up relationships. I don't like burning br. But let's talk about it as a. Like. Because there are things that come in my head. I think, oh, I didn't email that person back. Or I wonder if they've got. I make up stories who are like, they're just happy to hear from me. Like, I hadn't heard from you in a while. I'm like, I have nothing weird. I wasn't like, I'll answer his call, but where's the review about the spreader Bar. Jordan, I was happy to hear from you.

Right. We do make up stories in our own head about relationships. And now I've got systems in place where I don't have to worry about that anymore. So tell me how I've got this. Have you ever heard of Contactually? It's like this piece of software that plugs into Gmail. It goes through all your contacts, and you do this little bucket game where it's like the name floats by, and it's like, Emily Morris. And it's like, push W for 90 days, push X for 10 days, push G for six months. And then every allotted time that you put the person in the bucket, it'll remind you and send you an email and be like, you haven't talked with Emily for three months. You should reach out. And you're like, oh, okay. And a lot of people say, oh, that's cheating. But I'm like, look, if you know a thousand people in your, like, Sex and Broadcasting and showbiz in la, you can't be expected to remember all these people. It's not realistic. So I don't even try. I just use this system so that I can think of stuff in real time. And then I call that systematic network maintenance. Right? But I also use something called opportunistic network maintenance, where it's like, I'm on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. If you pop across my feed and it's like Emily Morse is doing a live show in LA about something, I'll go, oh, instead of just clicking the heart, I'll send an email or a text instead, because that reminded me to engage. Because if someone clicks the like, you're not like, let me see. All 4,000 people who like this. Oh, Jordan. Hey. You just don't pay attention. But we have friends that have babies, they get married, and their stuff shows up in Facebook, and all we do is click like, or we write like, congrats in a comment. And nobody ever thinks about that again. But if you look at that opportunity and you call or you email somebody or you text them, it's so much more engaging. And Facebook does all the work for you, or Instagram does all the work for you. And so contactually will remind me on a set amount of time. And then social media will remind me on, like, seemingly random amounts of time and usually with big news, right? Because if someone has a baby, it gets like a thousand likes, or if they get married, it's like a thousand. So instead of just joining that pool of people clicking like or commenting, I will engage more Deeply with, like, a text, email, or phone call.

So why is this important, though? Relationships?

It's important because a lot of people think, oh, I know so many people that could help with this thing. Or I know so many people that I need to get in touch with, but I don't have time. And then when they need something, they're like, say they're launching a line of books or something or candles, just hypothetically, right? Then they have to call people and go, all right, I have this thing that I need, and I don't mind doing that for my friends. Cause I'm in business and you're in business. It's like, not a big deal. But for some people, they're like, well, I haven't heard from you in three years, so why should I do this? You only call me. Or maybe you called them five times, they never called you back. And then when they need something and you know how you feel about those people, you're like, oh, this is just like a user.

Right?

So if you keep in regular touch with people, then it's not awkward to reach out and ask for something because you've been in touch with them for a long time. So whenever people go, oh, Jordan, you have to restart your show. You're rebooting your business or something. Is it embarrassing to reach out to people that you haven't talked to? And it's like, well, no, because the longest period I haven't talked with somebody is probably like six months or a year at most.

Except for me. But that was. Cause the sex that you felt bad, like, I went to the.

No, that's not the real reason.

I get it. We're always. I get it. But I do have that excuse, though, with people. There's a lot of people that I love that I care for business and personally. But I'm like, oh, but there's no time. I don't really have a commute. When can I call them? When can I get in touch with them? So I think men are a little more equipped at, like, women. We get on the phone, we talk for hours.

Yeah. Guys need systems especially. I think maybe women do too. And I'm just. It's a different type of thing. But for me, I love talking on the phone, too, and I love catching up with people. But before I had my systems, it was always totally random. So one of the reasons that I probably hadn't reached out in a while was because I didn't have my stuff in place until the last few years. And then it was like, oh, I Didn't have a bucket or whatever. So now whenever I meet or talk to old friends or see them on Facebook, I'm like, oh, I gotta add this person. So my whole to do list is like, Emily Morse, 90 days. And it's like 90 days or more often, hopefully.

But yeah, yeah, I would love it. Okay, so Jordan, we talked because you were with the Art of Charm.

Yeah, I started the Art of Charm and the Art of Charm podcast was a show I hosted for 11 years. And then I left in like a crazy, dramatic, unnecessarily dramatic, I should say, split with the old company. Very sudden. Totally not what we had worked out originally. And I'm like, oh, my God, I'm totally screwed. I have to start over now with the Jordan Harbinger show. I don't know what I'm gonna do. And then I was like, all right, I can either give up or cry about it, or I can just try to get back on my feet and realize that I'm 11 years into like a 30 plus or if I'm Larry King, like 85 year career in broadcasting.

I always think this, but your biggest challenges are going to make you stronger. You've been through a lot lately.

Yeah, but that's what people say. But in the moment, it totally sucks.

No, but you're gonna look back on this. Oh, remember that time that that whole thing happened? A charm and then you're like, kicking ass and you're like, I would not be where I am had I not gone through that. I mean, I feel that way. We were talking about when I put this behind a paywall prematurely in 2011. Like, I thought it was a mistake. 2010, my life was over. People will never come back. I'm so glad I tried and failed, tried and failed. So many things, because that's how I've been learned. Just like you.

But aren't you excited for that time when the mistake consequences are over and all the good stuff is already started?

Exactly. You're not there yet. But I already see it.

I'm not there yet.

Yeah, you need those stuff. You need those stories.

I guess you need them. They're so much nicer when they happen to other people. And I learn from them, though, instead of happening to me and I have problems.

It's humbling, though. How do you feel now?

Do you feel like I feel good about it. I'll tell you what, there's been several big gifts that have come from, I guess, failing hard or being smacked hard and getting knocked off the mountaintop. So to Speak one. My compassion for other people is off the charts. So I was watching this documentary on Netflix about this guy who he'd run like a shady payday loan business. And he was facing. And I was like, yeah, shady business, but like, really harsh sentence. And I actually felt bad for that guy.

And I felt, you're not compelling.

I. I know. And as a guy, I'm like, what is this feeling where I feel sympathy feelings for other people that are not babies or animals? I don't understand.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good for you. Evolving.

I know. Evolving.

Here's my question for you, Jordan. So when I met you, whatever, how many 12 years ago, you were doing more of the art of charm, which was more coming after Neil Strauss's game.

Yeah.

You were more of a pickup artist.

Came before Neil Strauss's, have, you know.

Okay, thank you for clarifying. So you were helping men pick up women, how to approach, build their confidence, how to be better men in certain ways. Just how to get women.

It was how to get women.

It's 13 years. It's okay. Yeah. I was like, what's a blow job? Like, I wasn't the expert at the beginning. I knew what a blow job.

Lots of practice.

I drove into a sex party, for example, or had a threesome. So then you moved your show into more of helping. It was more feel like it was more men being. Being better men, learning the skills to be better communicators, building relationships, being high performers in whatever business they're in, but also teaching them more about. What would you say are the main core skills that you've been in your evolution that you've been teaching men. And then now you're actually had to put them into practice.

Into practice.

Yeah, let's talk about that.

Yeah. So I started losing interest in all the dating stuff because it just got super played out. And it's like, how many times can I talk about starting a conversation where I'm not just repeating the same things over.

I gotcha.

So I started to get really sick of that. My business partners and other people in the organization were like, no, stick with this. This is what our customers are buying. And I was kind of like, co, I'm gonna jump off the roof of my garage because I don't wanna talk about this stuff anymore. So I started getting bigger and bigger guests and, like, CEOs and business people and military people. And I was getting really interested in that stuff. And our core audience was shifting, so we were getting a lot of email from women that was like, hey, what the hell's the deal. You only have these programs for men. But I listened to your show, and a lot of folks were like, hey, can you change the name of your show? Cause every time I tell my friends to listen, they always laugh at me or they're like, they don't want to learn.

Oh, Because Art of charm.

Because Art of charm name was really cheesy in my opinion. Or their opinion, I should say. And then later on, in my opinion, it was like, so nait.

It was like your high school photo kept popping up. Yeah, it was like, who I am anymore.

Your high school yearbook photo. Right. And I remember having dialogue inside my company and being like, we should change this. But at the end of the day, it was my face, and it was kind of like I saw it as my decision, and my business partners were. Had a different vision for the business. So I wanted to split off and do my own thing. And so that's what I'm doing now. And so now I'm teaching very unisex skills of learning relationship development, networking, keeping relationships in your life, making strong friendships and connections. And that's so much more interesting to me than, like, cool. To keep her interested at the bar, you gotta do these five things. I'm married now. You know, like, soon. Jen's gonna be popping out some kids at some point. Hopefully soon.

I gotcha. But you know what's interesting about all that? Because I think it's actually a deeper level conversation we can have here. Because a lot of people listening to, they still want to know. I'm so anxious for men and for women. I can't approach a woman or a man at the bar. I don't know how to talk. I don't. And a lot of the advice I give is, be the best version of yourself. You don't want to be attracted. You know, people think, like, I want someone who can complete me. And I think when you're a fullest version of yourself, that's when you're going to attract someone. Not that you feel like it's going to, you know, complete you in other ways. So what you teach is really, like, it's the other side of it, which I think is just as important, because once you build your relationships, your social networks, you feel really good about your career, your life, your relationship, then you're not even gonna have to think about talking to people, because it's gonna be part of who you are.

Exactly.

And you incorporate it. So it's sort of like the deeper level work that people do rather than, here's a Great pickup line, nagger at the bar and do something negative, she'll still go sleep with you.

That, yeah, exactly. And furthermore, if you're bringing in a ton of relationships that are platonic, you're gonna start to meet so many more people that the numbers game involved in meeting the right person is gonna be a different thing. You're gonna run across them throughout the course of your life rather than like, okay, tonight we're gonna go out and try to troll for chicks or dudes or whatever at the bar. And this is important because a lot of people go, oh, you know, I never have. A lot of high quality people say, I never have time to go out. So they go out once a month and they're like, oh, I just feel so stupid doing this and they don't wanna do it. So do you have a better chance of meeting someone throughout your, your daily life doing what you're doing best, bringing relationships into your life, practicing what you preach and really, like you said, being the best version of yourself? Or the one night at the bar where they go out because their friend finally made them go out and then they're shy too. It's like two needles in a haystack trying to find each other. It's like, what are you. No wonder people don't meet their wife at the bar. 99% of the time. They meet it through or significant other through a social circle. And the way to do that is to continually grow that circle. So those are the skills that I'm focused on now and not just like, here's this cool thing you can do to have with your light up belt buckle at some outing.

Although that is kind of cool.

That can work if you're 25.

So what are. I mean, you're right because as you move through life, people always say, oh, the people who complain. And you've probably heard this now in the Bay Area and I hear it here and in New York. Everywhere that people live, they think they live in the very worst town to date. They're like, there's no one here. And I believe that if, if wherever you go, there you are. And also that the richer, fuller life you have, if your personal interests, if you're working out with your friends, with your work, you're out in the world doing things, you're going to find that person. And that's how I've always met people on the apps. Not that apps are bad.

So what are the things that you teach people to start if they're going, yeah, but I work so much, I'M so busy, I have no time. What are your core components?

Yeah, I schedule my relationship development stuff as a business meeting. As a business meeting. So when I look through contactually or when I look through my contact list, every morning I wake up, I scroll to the bottom of my texts, and all the. You know how the bottom is? Like the person you texted a year and a half ago about, hey, where are we gonna meet for lunch? And you're like, oh, that person. So if you scroll to the bottom of your text and you write something.

From a year ago or.

I don't know, let's do it right now. I'm gonna look at the bottom of my texts.

How do you get to the very bottom?

You just do one of these. One of you scroll down. Not like that, but you scroll. I'm swiping accidentally, so you scroll. Yeah. And you.

God.

What did someone.

I slept. Okay, let's see.

Then you're out of luck.

You literally go all the way bottom.

So the bottom one is my friend's wife. And then there's an unknown number. And then I'm like, all right. But if I look at this one, here's a friend of mine from the uk so I could text him and say, hey, it's been a long time. How are you? Haven't spoken with you in a minute. And let's see, what's the last time I spoke with this person? May 22, 2016.

Is this guy might go back to 2012.

That's a long time ago.

Yeah, but, like, at this point. Okay, so I want to go back up. So my thing is I'll do that, and they'll be great. Let's get together. Let's do something. That's always the next thing. And I don't have time to see everybody. So what do you do?

So I don't say anything that might result in, like, another obligation for them or me making me anxious. Yeah. Don't even come back. Yeah, yeah.

I'm different than you.

Can do it another time. And not everyone has to do if it's making you anxious. It just makes you feel like you have more work to do. So I'll do that pretty much every morning. And I'll say something like, hey, man, last we spoke, we were in Vegas and you just flown in. I want to hear what's going on. I know you got a new dog. That was literally like a year ago. What's been happening with you? And they'll usually write back, oh, my gosh, it's been forever. Something like that. And you can chat for a little bit. But the way that I like to end the first message, to not result in, great. Now I'm texting with somebody and I have to go to work, which is where most people are. All right. Last I heard from you, you were doing really well. I hope you're still doing really well. Just thinking of you. Wanted to make sure everything was all good in your world. No need to respond if you don't have time. Half the time people don't reply. Or they reply like a month later.

Via email because everyone's going to the bottom of their text. Oh, yeah, okay. But you kept it going.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be like, let's do lunch. Right. And if someone says, let's get together sometime, you can say, sure, would love to catch up at some point. But I don't know, I'm really busy rebuilding my stuff. Like, you don't have to blow them off or anything. But you should definitely not say, yeah, that'd be great. And then never do it. I hate when people do that.

What? What?

Let's do it in a. Yeah, let's do it. And then never schedule it.

Right.

So if he. Let's say my friend from the UK was like, yeah, I'm gonna be in San Francisco next week. Let's hang out, I might say something like, well, if I can, great. But I like to group people together too, to catch up in person. So sometimes I'll say, oh, that's.

That's smart.

Have like a. Yeah, like a dinner party. Yes. Or cocktails or something like that. That way they have a chance to meet other people. And it's not like you're going on weird platonic dates with people you texted a year ago. Cause then you'll just run out of time.

So. Okay, that makes sense. That's all helpful. You decided to change the direction of your podcast how many years ago now? From the pickup to the now?

Yeah, probably three or four years ago.

Cause you were like, I'm gonna jump off my roof by. Keep doing it. So tell me how it. I'm sure you've changed. It's affected your personal and professional life. So, like, then you were on the show and I remember you're always awesome. I think you were kind of a little more like douchier.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, totally.

And now you seem like, I don't.

Know, I'm a grown up now.

Yeah, you seem grown up. You got your wife here who's adorable and great. You got. You seem solid. So Tell me how doing this podcast and do you think it's through that You've learned a lot. Tell me what you've learned.

Yeah, I've learned a bunch of that.

But the other reason I never thought you were douchey. You come off as douchey, but I know your soul and your heart.

Well, we were friends, so it couldn't have been that bad, right? It could have been that bad.

Well, I'm just saying that was more of your vibe.

Although I have met some of the guys you dated too, so that was a mistake.

It was one dude.

Okay, fine.

Who else did you meet then?

Oh, you don't even know. I don't want to mention anyone.

Probably San Francisco you've come across.

Probably. There's a few, maybe there's a few.

Okay.

But we're still friends, so it doesn't matter, right? Scoreboard. Totally fine.

Totally fine.

I started to learn things from the guests on the show too, but I also realized that one of the reasons, like you said, I was coming across, like, in this sort of of bro ish way, one of the reasons that it got so tiring was because when you're 24, you can be like this bro pick up chicks guy, because that's who 24 year old guys are 80% of the time. But then when I got to be like 33, I started to realize, okay, if I'm gonna be that person, I have to lay it on a little bit thicker because naturally I'm not really like that. And so as I got older and started to learn more and grow up more, I realized that the whole go out every night thing was more of a performance that I didn't like doing. It would be like if you were a standup comedian, but you hated all of your jokes and they were so old, you just wanted to stab your eyes out every time you told one. So that's how I started to feel about doing the old show. So then I was just like, I'm gonna let this go. I'm just not even gonna try to shoehorn dating into the show. But the problem was the name was still the Art of Charm. So there was this tension between me and my business partners about, like, where's the show going? Versus, like, where's my head at?

Right.

And so that was the difference in vision that eventually split the company, in my opinion.

What do you think are the skills that men still really need to learn about in personal relationships? How has it affected your. Like, men have such a hard time with vulnerability, with communication, with empathy. Just men and women understanding each other.

Totally understand that. Yeah. Well, let me give you a real life example.

Please.

So when the company split, I found myself sort of on the outside. Not sort of. I found myself on the outside of the art of charm. We did not follow through with the negotiated deal, so I basically had nothing. But my whole team came with me. That was really cool. And that was a huge vote of confidence. And then I thought, okay, I can either reach out to no one and pretend like none of this happened and kind of keep it quiet and maybe I'll recover in like, three to five years, or I can reach out to everyone and be like, I got terminated. My team left with me. We're trying to rebuild from the ground up. We need all the help we can get. And it'll be a little bit like. Like, maybe humble pie is not the right word, but maybe it is. But I don't think anyone's gonna be like, ha, sucks to be you, jerk face. Like, that doesn't. That's not, like, what I am.

Realize by reaching out that everyone really does want to be there for you. Just like, remember, you know what you feel when you're watching the commercials and you feel empathy and compassion.

Oh, yeah. The Netflix documentaries.

Yeah. Or whatever it is. You know, you start to. You realize that people actually feel that towards you.

Yeah. And I was worried that that wouldn't happen because, of course, when you hear about tragic dissolution, stories are, like, from athletes. They go, yeah, you're gonna find out who your friends are. And they don't mean you're gonna be so pleasantly surprised at how many friends you have. MC Hammer's like, you're gonna find out who your friends are while I'm selling cassette tapes out of the trunk of my car in 1995. Right. That's what they mean by that. They don't mean you're gonna be so heartwarmingly enthralled and glad that this happened. That's not what that means. So I was worried about that. So what I did is I realized I was gonna have a shorter recovery period by getting all the help I could from my friends and, like, reaching out and just telling people what happened and not trying to hide the ball. The other thing is, I also knew that if I got totally body slammed by people being like, no, and it sucks to be you, like, whatever sort of weird rejection, fantasy or nightmare situation I had in my head, that it would be really tough and it would make. It would add insult to injury. So I made a list of, like, 20 people that I knew were really gonna be like, of course. Yeah. And you're on that list. Like, other close friends of mine are on that list. And I was like, they're not gonna be like, you know what? I hate you. I'm not helping you. Right. So I knew that the risk was gone.

I was on your third tier that you circled back to every 90 days.

Yeah, third tier. Fourth tier. Fourth and a half.

But you call me. I'm like, I love. Yes. Come on.

But I just. I knew that you weren't gonna be, like, an uncaring person. You're gonna lend a sympathetic ear and all this stuff. So I was like, okay, if these people, like my friends Emily and John and all these. If they're kids when they say, sure, or at least are sympathetic, then I'm not gonna be scared about reaching out to, like, 80, 100 other people to try to get back on my feet over the course of the next year. So I sort of stack the deck in my own favor in that way. And I think guys can learn a lot about vulnerability, guys and girls, for that matter, by just trying it with somebody who's gonna be safer first. So if you have, like. If you have, like, a rocky relationship with your sister, don't be like, all right, here we go. Angela, we've had a rocky relationship. No. Like, they might not be ready for it. And then you're like, they might not.

Be meeting you where you're at. That's true.

Terrible. But if you call another friend who maybe has reached out to you before on this, and you kind of weren't comfortable, and then you go back and go, hey, look, totally realize that I've been emotionally unavailable, and you're my closest friend, and I wanna change that. They might be like, great. And then you get this positive experience of feeling good about vulnerability. And then if you do that enough times, and then you try things with your estranged sister, and then she's like, sorry, not equipped for this. You don't go, this is me. I'm broken. I can't connect with people. You go, yep. This didn't work with her, but it worked with these other eight people. And that's because it's not me, it's her.

Right?

And that's important for people because especially guys, when we're vulnerable and it doesn't work for us, we're, like, never doing that shit again.

Never opening up. Exactly. And you could be shut down for life.

Yeah, for life.

How you take. Like, someone can, like, pry your heart open.

Right?

Kind of like, try and try.

Well, you know this more than anybody, probably due to, like, of work that you're in when guys, or women, for that matter, get cheated on or something. And then they're like, I don't know how I can ever date again. You don't go, no, it's cool. Let's go meet some total D bag dudes at a bar or get on Tinder and hook up with guys that.

Are never gonna cheat on you. And how do you reframe that? Have you had therapy and stuff? Have you worked through stuff in a clinical setting?

I have, but not this stuff. I just. In the past, yeah. And it was super useful, and I totally resisted it. Cause I was like, therapy is for crazy people.

Yeah, you're insane. Someone will think you're insane to find out.

But so many close friends of mine were like, no, I love therapy. This is really good. Here's somebody you should go to. And I went to a therapist just to find out, like, oh, I'm not crazy. No, other people are fine, and I'm not crazy. And this is this weird thing that I've put myself in. And so it resulted in me being, like, overworked, which resulted in me feeling stressed out and sad. And that's not how your whole life is supposed to be. And I needed this woman therapist to just, like, tell me this.

Right? You didn't even just be like, you're okay. That's kind of what allowed us. A lot of things that I do on the show is really about people want to know, am I normal? Is it okay that I'm feeling this giving support? And I also give, you know, advice about good sex and stuff.

Of course.

So what are. What are, like, the core personality traits? The core traits that you think that men. We got. Vulnerability. Like, what are some of the other things that you think help men be better men? Right now that you. I know you talk about a lot of different.

Yeah, I think the vulnerability thing is, of course, key.

I also advise personal and professional lives, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's something to be gained by talking with your boss and saying, look, sometimes when I work on these projects, I don't feel like I'm really wowing everyone. And you might have a boss that goes, nope, that's ridiculous. You're way too hard on yourself, and everyone knows it. And this is just another example of that. Or he might go. He. Or she might say, yeah, well, I was gonna bring this up in a performance review, but now's as good of a Time as any. Sometimes people feel like you're aloof and checked out or whatever. I mean, you can get. Get feedback from people by asking for it. Here's what a lot of men and women don't realize. That feedback, that feeling of maybe your boss says, yeah, you're aloof and checked out. That feeling exists whether you ask about it or not. Right. So you might as well get the feedback early and be able to improve. Because I think in our heads, we kind of realize, well, or we think, as long as I don't know about it, it doesn't exist. So as long as I don't ask for negative feedback, I won't get it. Which means I'm doing a great job. And of course, now that when I articulate it like that, that's ridiculous. So people are thinking, well, I don't want to ask how my relationship with this woman is going because if she has a problem with it, then it becomes a problem. No, the problem is already there. You can only solve it if you actually know about it. So people are afraid to be vulnerable because they feel like they're opening a box. But if there's an explosive in a box, it's going to cause damage.

It's going to explode. Damage. It's going to damage anyway. You might as well talk. Talk sooner. The sooner the better. That you talk about.

Exactly.

Guys, just. We're not. We don't. I mean, so much of I talk about.

Yeah, we don't.

Ashe is lubrication. We don't know how.

Oh, it's up there.

Oh, no. Yeah. Communication. Yeah. You like that? You can borrow it.

Communication is lubrication. Yeah.

Don't you feel like the better. Like, how's your, you know, your personal life, too? Talking about sex.

Yeah. You are almost set. You almost went. And then you were like, I'm gonna reel it back 1%.

To say what?

Because my wife's in there. You were like, I know.

I love that you're. You're married.

It's good. I like it. But. But I'll tell you, you flipped over.

Too when you met. I remember.

That's true. That's still flipped.

That's so good.

Still flipping.

I love it.

Right, Jen?

You seem happy. She's like, no.

She's like, yeah. You just couldn't hear it on the microphone. She wholeheartedly agreed.

She was really, really, really excited. So tell me what?

Do you think you'll ever get married? Like, do you want to?

Oh, good. I've never had a goal of getting married. It's never been like my.

What about your mom that she has that goal for you?

She doesn't.

She doesn't know.

She gave that up a long time ago. My mom's always been like, I just want you to be happy. So it was just. I was very masculine though. And a lot of what I was doing, I feel like I've been very, like, I have to make my career. I have to make a living. I can't focus on men. Even though I'm studying sex and relationships and this is my life. I didn't know how to make space for relationship and for building a career. That was. Came out of nowhere. So I've been working workaholic the last 13 years.

I can identify.

But now. Yes, exactly. So and. And I think. And I was like, well, until I. You know, my mom also raised me very much like, don't ever rely on a man to take care of you or anyone. If I'm going to be working all the time and I'm going to event, maybe eventually I'll find someone. But I can't take time out and give a man everything that he needs until I'm solid and I can support myself and pay the rent and all this stuff. So that was. I don't know.

So now, I mean, you're solid now you have all these cool team members.

I know. So now I'm in a really good place.

Your excuses are all like falling away.

I know. And so now I'm dating someone actually that I love. Yeah. So. But I don't know about marriage, but I like them.

That's good.

It's working.

Yeah. I guess you don't need to get married. I mean, it's up to you.

No, but I wasn't interested in the kids thing either. But I'm interested. I feel like I'm more like giving my career. Feels like. And I'm so loved. I've given birth to sex with Emily. I feel like it's been my thing and I love growing it and doing some more. Like going out and talking to people more going out in the world.

Yeah.

Are you doing some speaking?

I am and I like it too.

Tell me.

I don't know about giving birth, though. The recovery period on that.

Exactly. Especially. Right.

Yeah. I don't want everything to be.

No. But I feel like, you know, relationships are important and of course I've dated over the years, but marriage was not the. Was not the goal. But who knows?

I think people put too much pressure on the goals for their relationships just as they put too much Pressure on certain business goals, I think. And guys maybe are even more guilty of this because we're so competitive by nature, I think, on the whole. I don't know if that's a good generalization between us.

No, you are, definitely.

Because a lot of guys I know are like, I can't date anyone until I'm in the right financial place.

This is what I have. For some reason, I had that same thing. I get it. And I don't know.

But guys. And guys too, and maybe even youth, they think, like, they can't go on a date until they have a private jet or some crap like that. It makes no sense. Oh, I need to be in a good place financially. What does that even mean? And then you ask them, and they don't even know. They're like, oh, I want to have seven figures in annual revenue. And I'm like, that is the dumbest thing in the world.

No, it is. And for me, I understand why men think, though, because men are so connected to.

They feel very emasculated if they don't have the career, the money. Like, if men lose a job or they're anxious, I'm glad you're married and have support right now. Because if you had gone through this alone, like, it would have been hard.

Oh, God, I can't even imagine.

No, it's true. So when men feel changed, challenged around money, work, job, they don't have sex. They have challenges in the relationships. Like, because it's so tied into our. Your biology. It's like evolutionary psychology. You can't go out and you can't, like, you know, drag the woman back to the cave. You can't kill the. The boars.

That's right. Because if you can't provide as a guy, you feel super emasculated.

And I. For me, it was more like, I'm just. It takes me a long time to get things done and focus. And I just was like, there's a lot going on, and I think I can't. It was financial, but it was also like, I gotta get all these pieces together, which I have now. But I understand. I feel that way.

And I think for a lot of people, they don't really enumerate their goals to the point where they need to be sort of affixed. And what I mean by that is, if you think, I can't do this until this happens, I can't do that until that happens. Like, I can't date until I can provide. You have to define what those things mean, because otherwise you will kick the ball down the court. To butcher this metaphor, you'll kick it down so far that you will never do the other things because you'll start building fear around, well, I don't know. Am I there yet? I don't know.

And you'll never feel like you're there.

And you will just keep moving the goalposts until there's no possibility.

It's very true. So how do you. Because that is such. So true. And even though I've studied this for years, you know, like meditation, you know, 25 years ago when I started that. It's like the whole Buddhist principle, too, is like, you can't think. Like, once I get the car, the job, the home, the wife, the thing, then I'll be happy, then I'll be content.

Right?

But we all do set up those goalposts and keep moving them. We keep raising the bar higher and higher, which I'm sure this is very pop, you know, something that a lot of business people go through. So how have you worked through that? What's your advice for that? For setting goals that are realistic and keep moving forward?

It's less about setting the realistic goals than it is about digging the well before you're thirsty. So, like with relationships, for example, you have to have those in place before you need them. Just like if you decide that you're gonna. If you suddenly and erroneously decide that you're gonna be happy when you have a million dollars a year in revenue, you realize, wait a minute. Maybe this is never gonna happen. These goalposts are gonna continually move. So the awareness of that idea lets you go, well, wait a minute. That's not what I. I can be happy before that and still hustle and still work. But if you wait and you make yourself miserable until you've achieved these moving goalposts, you will literally never actually be able to do that, and you'll never allow yourself to be happy and content. And I think a lot of people are afraid to let themselves be happy because they feel like it's gonna cut off their motivation. But really, you don't need to motivate yourself by making yourself miserable. It's just the way that we're mostly used to doing it.

Exactly.

Especially us. Like growing up in Michigan, where our parents are probably workaholics. We're like, oh, they were miserable till they retired. That's how it's supposed to be.

Exactly. I had another friend on the show from Michigan the other day, or I was on their show, but she was saying, it's the same. It's that Michigan mentality that you have to keep working, working, working, or it's gonna fall apart. Exactly. It is that drive. But also I realize that I'm doing that with anxiety and stress. It's like, if I don't stress about things and get anxious, it won't be successful. Or if it isn't really hard, it won't be successful. When I'm focusing on. Yeah. And I've been focusing on things being more effortless because actually, I've been doing this a long time. But there's a certain mentality that you have to keep going, and you're right. It doesn't work.

Yeah. You'll drive yourself crazy or beyond crazy or you'll have anxiety. I mean, I remember sleep, staying up all night, and Jen's like, what's the problem? What are you worried about? I'm like, I don't even know. I don't know. I just feel like I have to worry because then when I worry, it means that I'm making this so bad that it's. This is the path I'm supposed to take. It's supposed to be really hard and really shitty, and I'm supposed to hate it.

Right. So how have you been able to switch that? Do you think? Having a partner. Having.

Having a partner to keep you grounded, for sure helps. The other thing is realizing that. That.

You are able to set your own. This sounds like metaphysical, and I hate stuff like that, but you're able to set up your own level of success, and what it means to be happy for you doesn't have to compete with the idea of being successful. And that took me, like, a decade and change. To internalize.

Say it again.

So you don't. Being successful and being happy does not have to mean that you're no longer motivated to keep moving forward. And. And a lot of people think they have to stay motivated by specifically making themselves miserable or beating themselves off or sitting.

Yeah.

Having unrealistic expectations or not celebrating any victories at all. And I'm still guilty of this. People are like, oh, cool. 1.4 million downloads for your show in the first month. And I'm like, no, I need, like, five times more than that to be happy. And they're like, why? And I'm like, I don't know, dude.

I was looking. I'm so proud of you. I was thinking that too, but I get it. It's very, very hard to celebrate the small wins. And I think that I've even just glossed over them. And people are like, congratulations, Emily. You've done. You're so successful, and it's really hard to take it in. It's hard to feel it.

You're like. Because I saw your show a while ago in the top 100. Not a while ago, like, weeks ago, after we had just talked and you were in the top 100. And I was like, wow, after 11 and a half years, you're still popping in 13 years. 13 years. Sorry, that was me. 11 and a half years. You were around before that. 13 years are still popping in the top 50. Than top 100. That's, like, impossible. You know, you're beating Corolla half the.

Time, but if I just get really excited and I sit back and I'm like, hey, it's Friday, guys. Let's have margaritas, then it'll just plummet and no one will ever listen again.

Because everyone knows that relaxing on Friday afternoons is what determines your itunes rank.

Right. Exactly. So, okay, so my listeners, if I decide that when Jordan's here, we're gonna whip out some alcohol and have. Would you guys still go support the show and write us a really good review? And will you go subscribe to Jordan's new podcast? Podcast? Because they're gonna love it.

I hope so. It's. It's more of, like, a heady, nerdy thing. So if you like learning and you're.

Like, you're heady, nerdy, but you're. But you. You can listen to you. But. Yeah, but. But you're. I don't. I think you're a really good interviewer.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

And you bring in good guests. You know? I do. So I wouldn't say heading. I'd say it's like life skills.

I want to have you give advice on my show at some point because people ask me stuff. It's not going to be sex stuff, most likely, because I think people are embarrassed to write that stuff to me, and they know I just have no chance of giving them good sex advice.

But I can.

But you can. But I think relationship advice and things like that that people write in with.

Of course. I would love to do that. Yeah, that would be fun. Like we used to do in my garage. You said.

That's right. In your garage.

You said you came over. We courted spots.

We did. Yeah. We did a lot of that. And, you know, this wouldn't be a complete show if you didn't have some kind of sex paraphernalia with a penis logo on the table.

This is a wet head. So this is. I actually want to give you some of this.

Sure.

So it's dry mouth spray that you spray in it.

Oh, it goes in your mouth?

Yeah. So you.

That was not what I thought that was for.

Yeah. So make sure you don't have any of that.

Can I try that?

Please do. Strawberry.

Is this one of your sponsors?

No, I wish they were, Doc Johnson, but we love them. I like everyone in this industry. They're not a sponsor, but they should be.

Okay. I just sprayed it in there. I was waiting for you to go, like. Just kidding.

It's lube. You.

Oh, you're so gross.

Jordan, wait till you see what you're gonna. I'm gonna you today. How is your sex life? Do you guys want anything fun? Like, anything you've been needing? You probably don't have.

Jen. What do we need?

Why is Jen so quiet? Jen.

She probably ran away the first time she thought I was gonna put her on the microphone.

Okay, well, then I'm gonna ask you some questions. I'm gonna ask you my five quickie questions that I ask every guest. Your biggest turn on.

Biggest turn on. Ooh, these aren't that quick, are they? Biggest turn on is. I like people who are really positive and happy.

Okay. Biggest turnoff.

Oh, complaining. I hate it. Which is funny because I totally do that all the time, but I'm like, oh, other people that do that, ugh, shame on them.

Right? Craziest place you've had sex in college.

There's these little library places where nerds can read books.

I went to Michigan.

Oh, the stacks.

The stacks, yeah. Yeah. You had sex on the stacks.

Everybody wanted to, and I was like, I'm gonna do this.

I started the law library.

You did?

Yeah.

Where in the law library?

I didn't have sex in the law library. Okay, and then you went to law school, you went to undergrad and graduate at Michigan.

Right? That's why I was like, where in the law library did you do that and not get caught?

Those vending machines downstairs. I don't know. I'm trying to think if I. I didn't have sex down there, but I met some nice guys. Okay, so what does intimacy mean to me?

It means being able to back to the vulnerability thing. Being able to share the things that you think make you look bad and still not worrying about the other person judging you about that.

You've got to let a lot of that go.

Yeah, you gotta. Yeah, you gotta let that stuff go. Because I think a lot of guys in relationships, they say things like, I'm afraid to tell My wife this. And it's like this. Totally none.

So let's talk really quickly, though, because this is mostly. We're gonna answer some emails now. You guys are gonna answer your questions. But people are so. I mean, this is the big thing in a relationship. We're so afraid to talk to our partners about just about everything that they're gonna judge us, they're gonna leave us. And I just feel like there's so much freedom in saying the things that you think you can. If it comes out in a way that you think, oh, it wasn't the most articulate. But don't you think you've learned everything.

And you have to do that? Because everybody has these little things that these vulnerabilities. If you don't share yours, the other person might feel like they can't share theirs because either you don't have them or they think, oh, well, he doesn't share that with me, so I shouldn't share that with him. And you end up with a little wall inside your relationship and it's really unhealthy.

And you probably. You get so much closer. Closer when you do.

Definitely.

I love it. Okay, we're going to give a. A shout out to our sponsors, which we love. Our sponsors. Jordan loves them, too. Wait to see what you're going to get when you leave here and we'll be right back.

Okay, Jordan, tell them how to reach out to us. You can do whatever you want. Improv. Yeah, just improv this thing.

Pause. Smiley face, smiley face. Now we're on to emails. Like that.

Yeah.

Okay, but I can do it again.

No, I love it. Okay, do it yourself, however you feel. Good.

Now we're onto the emails. Have a question you'd like Emily to answer on the show. She obviously loves that. And we've made it super easy to ask Emily a question. Use the option that's easiest for you. You can text. So save this in your phone right now. Just text ask Emily all one word to 797979. That's ask Emily all one word to 7979. 79. And you'll receive a short form where you can enter your question, you can enter your contact details. And if you'd like Emily to call you during a future caller show, please indicate yes on the form. Talking to you about your question. It's one of Emily's most. Lots of space between that.

You're doing well. You're doing well.

Talking to you about your question is one of Emily's most favorite things. Oh, Also, you can submit a question from the sexwithemily.com website via the Ask Emily tab. And if you can't figure that out, you're probably not smart enough to submit a question. As always, Emily loves it when you include information that will help us help you, like your gender, your age, where you live, how you listen to the show, et cetera. That's it. Can't wait to hear from you.

Good job. Thanks, Fred.

You're welcome.

Okay. This is Oliver, 25, from Alberta, Canada. Hello, Emily. I have a common law relationship, and I really like it. My partner and I have been together for three years. I love my partner, and we just found out that she's pregnant. The issue is I have a recurring desire to have more experiences with other women. I haven't cheated, but I can't stop thinking about being with someone else. She's my third relationship, and the baby wasn't really planned, but I want to keep it. I can't think about an option without cheating. Should I find professional help about this desire that I have? Am I sick for thinking about being with someone else? Thanks for your help, and I love your show, Oliver.

I don't think Oliver is sick at all. I think this is normal for pretty much every guy in the world.

He's a man, and I don't think.

It'S just his level of an experience, because if he says, oh, it's my third relationship, so maybe he's got some stuff that he would have rather have gotten out of his system. However, I know guys that have been with, like, a jillion different girls, and they find the right one, and they get married, and they're like, I'm so happy. And they're still like. You still have that urge for variety.

It doesn't mean it's variety. That's what it is. It's not gonna go. It's really doesn't go away. So there's nothing wrong with him, but he has this reoccurring desire. So I would say that now she's pregnant, so the sex is gonna be on hold for a while. What I would tell Oliver is what men don't realize is you're gonna have that desire, but what you can do with that desire when you're like, I really want to cheat or I want to go watch porn for another hour, you can go, hmm. Another option is to turn all this energy I'm feeling back towards my partner. Turn it towards your relationship. Lean into your relationship and think about what you can do to make that even sexier and Hotter. What kind of communication? What are you not getting from it sexually? Because there's always ways to improve sexually or two, to improve your communication. So you are being more fulfilled. It's not gonna be a different body, but it could actually be an enhanced sexual experience.

The other thing that I would say I agree with 100% of that is I remember in college and things being like, variety.

Oh.

And then going out and doing that and then being like, that was equally slash, not as good as the last.

Cause you're, like, empty right after.

So if you have a girlfriend or somebody that you care about, I think all of these things that exist in our head as guys, it's always idealized, this is gonna be so much better. Or, I need this variety. And then you do it and you're like, nope. But the risk is so much higher now. Cause he's got this pregnant girlfriend, and.

They'Re keeping it, and they're keeping it.

So it's like, okay, so you can ruin your entire relationship and then find out that you just didn't care about it. But he doesn't have that reference point of getting the variety. And then either regretting it or not caring about it.

Just tell him. Let him know that many men.

Right, right. Like, because he's like, oh, I've only had three relationships. I know guys that have what had one relationship. I guarantee you they're equally as happy as somebody who's had, like, 50 relationships with 50 supermodels and then married one and still has the desire for a variety or somebody who's still playing the field. You're all equally happy. You just think that the grass is greener because we're wired in this way to, like, keep spreading our DNA everywhere. And it's just a freaking illusion.

You are wired that way. It's the same exact thing. And it's so true. It's not like you're ever done with. With chocolate, for example. Like, I've had enough chocolate for my life. Dating or desserts? Dating is the same way, I don't think. And women, too, feel this way. I don't think we're ever like, I'm fully satiated. That whole get it out of your system thing.

Yeah, it's an illusion.

It is an illusion that doesn't really exist, nor does it satisfy anybody.

Good call on the chocolate. You know when you eat dessert and you're like, okay, I'm not eating sweet stuff again, because this made me feel like crap. And then a week later, you're like, housing ice cream and you're like, wait a minute, I wasn't gonna it do. Because it's all just an emotional decision.

Right.

So this all the things Oliver's feelings, straight up, just emotional decisions. That your brain, your lizard brain is like spread that DNA. So if he's really feeling like, oh my God, I gotta have variety. Just go like whack it or something man. Get it done. Whack it out.

Exactly.

Or have your girlfriend deal with that.

You guys can whack it together, watch some porn together. I'm really into porn watching together. Do you guys ever do that? Yeah. Good times.

Less so now. But we definitely had before.

Maybe tonight. There you go. Are you guys staying in hotel?

No, we're going home tonight.

I'm back.

Yeah.

Okay. Because vacation sex, getting outside your house sex.

I'm telling you, vacation. You're onto something with vacation sex. Yeah.

Last time I saw you were going on vacation, that's when we housed up your car with the.

That's right. We had to like we couldn't even fit it all in the truck.

I know, it was amazing. Trevor, 22, Wisconsin. Hey Emily. I love the show. My ex slash girlfriend. I know. Not a super clean situation. And I've dated for roughly five plus years. Long distance, on and off, mostly on. I just graduated college and moved back home. And our dynamic has changed. Things have gotten weird. We've both messed up in our own separate ways. Since living near each other again. She's flirted with another guy around me and I got caught snooping through her social media. We both know we've messed up and are sorry about it. But it's tough to forgive these things. I just don't know how to proceed. Since we both live at our parents houses, the dynamic is tough. Ideally I want things to work out for us, but I know life isn't a romantic movie. Do you have any advice on how to proceed to at the very least make amends? Keep up the great work with the show.

I mean he just has a lack of trust because they've had a long distance relationship. And so since she flirted with this other guy around him, whatever that means. I wonder if she would agree that she flirted with another guy around him.

She probably not.

She's probably like. You mean when I said thanks and then and then took the groceries from the bag boy.

I used to always get accused in my 20s, I would always get accused of flirting and I was not. He's like, I saw you looked at the waiter.

That's such a weird. There's no concrete definition. But here's what there is a concrete definition of looking through someone's phone.

Yeah.

So I think we both messed up is kind of a weird code for I don't trust her and I'm acting out because of that. And so I did something that was kind of shitty, but she did something that was kind of in my head. Because I don't want to be the only person who has a trust issue in this relationship.

That's. That's a good interpretation. Although she might have. She might have done more, but I like interpretation.

She might have, but we don't know.

I think they both messed up five years. They're both living back in Wisconsin after five years together. And all I'm saying is, Trevor, I know we just talked about. Sometimes it's an illusion that you need to date other people and go out and do other things. But five years, I'm from 17 to 22. There might need to be a little bit of break, too. I think that that's really, really healthy that you're already in this back and forth and there's so much drama and we change so much from age 17 to 22. And so rebuilding trust in a relationship takes work. It's not just like, oh, I forgive you. Like, you probably went deep into her social media. You saw her liking other people, sending DMs dick pics that you can never forget. I don't know what you saw, but. But it's not just like, I forgive and forget. It's like couples have to go back to therapy and they have to repair and they have to talk about everything that went on so they can rebuild trust. It's a process. So if you guys are already on this train, you might need some work to go ahead and get into therapy or take a clean break where you literally don't talk, don't see each other for a while until you both figure out what you really want. Because it sounds like there's just some unhealthy back and forth here.

Yeah, I agree with you. From 17 to 22, you have had exactly zero mature relationships in your life. Adult life.

Right.

You need to go and just figure out. Cause he doesn't even know what he doesn't want and what he does want in a woman. Cause he's never actually dated a woman. Probably. He's only had like this high school relationship that has kind of evolved with it. And they're both trying to not. They're both trying to pretend that they didn't outgrow each other because it's sad or something.

I mean, they're the first love, so it's like.

Right.

I get that it's hard, and it.

Sounds like he kind of gets that.

Right.

Life's not a romantic movie. You can take a break from somebody like that and then get back together later.

Does it happen? It does happen, if you want. It does happen.

It happens all the time.

So I'm so glad that you wrote here, Trevor, and just I want you to have less stress. So try to go in, talk to where you guys can listen to this together. You know, a lot of couples love listening to the show because then they don't actually have to have the conversation, like Emily said. And then you guys can heal this. Let me know how it goes. Thank you, Trevor, for emailing. Thank you, everybody, for emailing. Thank you, Jordan Harbinger, for being here. The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Yeah, the Jordan Harbinger show. Or Harbinger. Whatever.

You know, Harbinger. Yeah. Hold on. What do you want to say here?

You can't end the show with.

Yeah, I'm not even going to end it that way. Jordan Harbinger. Check out his podcast on itunes. It's everywhere. And it's your website. It's all JordanHarbinger.

On social media.

On social media. You're really going to like it. You're going to like his guests. You're going to like Jordan. He's a good time. And if you don't, I'm proud of you. I love you being. I love this manly side of you.

Thank you.

Being a mature adult.

Yeah, Grow it up.

What are you going to say if you don't like it?

If you don't like Jordan. You said you like Jordan, and I like was gonna say in a timely way. And if you don't, there's probably something wrong with you. But now it's not funny because the moment has passed.

I hate when that happens.

So now I'm just. Now I just sound, like, funny.

But he's usually funny. His comedic timing is usually on sometimes. Sometimes. And he's an old friend. And I'm glad you're here and thanks for reaching out and I look forward to hearing from you when I circle up on your social media again soon. You're awesome. Okay. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Thanks to my amazing team. Look at my team. I look back. I love you all. I'm very, very lucky. Thank you to Ken, Jamie, our volunteers, Sh. Sarah, Jenny, producer, Lark, and Michael. Thanks, everyone for subscribing on itunes and for reviewing the show. Don't you love when people do that? It helps when they subscribe. They review.

Of course.

How do you inspire people to do that?

I just say, look, if you don't review the show, I'm just gonna think you all hate it and not do it anymore.

Yeah. Oh, that's good. Okay.

No, that's the, that's the stick. I like the carrot of. You are supporting us.

You are supporting us.

And I read all of them and it means something.

I do read all of them.

Them.

See, there you go. Okay, so thank you for that. Thank you, Jordan. And let me know was it good for you? Text ask Emily to 797-979.

There's one overlooked mineral behind better sleep. Sharper focus, stronger muscles and a healthier heart. And at least half of us aren't getting enough. Most people don't realize they're running low on one of the most vital minerals for for human health. Magnesium. And here's the thing. No single form of magnesium can deliver all of its benefits. That's exactly why Qualia Magnesium plus was created with 10 highly bioavailable forms of magnesium plus over 70 essential minerals. It provides total magnesium support, helping you sleep better, think clearer, move stronger, and feel your best every day. And honestly, when you're less stressed and more energized, your intimacy and desire naturally benefit too. Sure, magnesium can help you sleep sleep, but Qualia Magnesium plus goes beyond that. It's a whole body nourishment for how you think, move, connect and feel. More than just a sleep supplement. It's a foundation for daily well being, which absolutely supports a healthier sex life. Getting enough magnesium from food alone is harder than ever due to depleted soils and chronic stress and our body's reduced ability to absorb it as we age. Well, Qualia's Magnesium plus formula is non gmo, vegan, gluten free and designed so all the ingredients work together for comprehensive magnesium support. And personally, I've been taking Qualia Magnesium plus in the evenings and I really notice calmer nights and clear mornings and just feeling more grounded in my body, which always makes intimacy feel more accessible and enjoyable. It's become such an easy part of my nightly routine. Experience the most trusted magnesium for your purity, potency and performance. Go to qualialife.com sex with Emily for 50% off off. And here's a bonus. Use the code Sex with Emily for an additional 15 off your order. That's Q U A L I A life.com sexwithemily thanks for Qualia for sponsoring this episode.