Open Relationships, Edging, and Bisexuality with Jason Ellis and Nico Tortorella

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You'Re listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversations around sex. It's alternative, August. What does that mean? Well, alternative relationships can mean a lot of things. Essentially, think about anything outside of your traditional monogamous relationships and, you know, we all get to decide what kind of relationship works for us. For some people love monogamy. It works for you. And for others, I want you to know these other options available. It could mean having casual sex outside your committed relationship. Maybe it's, you know, bringing in a third or more partner, whatever you're into. Swinging could be occasional threesomes, polyamory. Maybe it's dominant submissive relationship. Exploring bag sexuality. We're going to be exploring that in some of our podcasts on our website and social media, so check all that out. So today's episode, we're going back to two of my really fun, informative interviews about alternative relationships and sexuality. And so much has changed, even since I recorded in 2017. Now, these interviews are from a few years ago, and it's funny listening back. So much has even changed since then about the conversations around gender and sexuality. So first we have Nico Turtorella. He's a sexually fluid actor, and he's soon to be appearing on Walking World beyond and was on the series Younger when we recorded this interview. He was with a longtime partner. I believe he still is. They were openly seeing other people. And he talks about his way of practicing polyamory, monogamy, and we also talk about gen and the spectrum of sexuality, what to look for in the first few months of dating. And wow, I really love that one of his favorite things is performing oral sex on a woman. Later in the show, I talked to Jason Ellis, who has since become a really good friend and a colleague at SiriusXM, and he now has a podcast. And when we recorded this one, Jason was recently married and openly dating men and women. And the interesting thing was he'd only recently come out as pansexual. So it was really interesting to hear him opening up. He's got great insights like how to make. Make sure your relationship stays healthy when you bring in other partners. We talk about radical transparency in a relationship, avoiding drama, because, hey, you're gonna bring in another partner, you gotta learn how to navigate around it and set boundaries and rules, what to look for and not look for in group sex, and that marriage just shouldn't be the end of your sex life. He talks about his MMA routines and training and workouts and also foreplay. Well, we talk a lot about foreplay. All right, guys, enjoy the show.

So you're jerking off, right? You got some good porn on or something, and you stop right before you're about to come. There's like. Like a quarter of a second that exists in that space. It's all about controlling different muscles.

Right. I don't have time to be in, like, a committed lockdown, living with some relationship where you're compromising things. Right.

I love relationships.

I know, right? They're fun. Yeah, but in your brain, it. You gotta prioritize.

You get too giddy. Guys get giddy and they start slamming into one of them, and they can't use their hands or their mouth well, because their penis is busy. And that's. That's. That's a game that you need to learn quick. And you need to. And you also need to not come look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them.

In a bygone day.

I'm very excited to get to my guest right now. I have Nico Tortorella. Tortorella.

Tortorella.

Tortorella. That's how you say it, right?

Nicolo Luigi Tortorella.

Of course.

Just as Irish as you can get, right?

Exactly. Oh, my God, that's amazing. Okay, so I'd read that you're just inspired by the conversations that you were already having with people in your day to day life.

Yeah, right? Yeah, I was having a lot of conversations about sexuality and gender identity. And that was the focus of the podcast in the beginning. That was like what I was getting into. It's kind of just where my head was circling. As time has gone by, it's definitely shifted. A really natural, beautiful shift. It started to shift into this world of spirituality and sense of higher self and next level, which I think is really based in this idea of figuring out who you are and what you want. Right. And if you're taking that step into your own sexuality or your own gender identity, that is inherently a first step in a spiritual exploration of sorts.

It's true. It's so interesting because I think the journey to figuring out who and what we want is just. I mean, I think you're. First of all, you're never done because I think you're always changing. But you think, like, I already know who I am, I know I am. And then you get. Hopefully you get to the point in life where you're like, oh, you know what? I think I really don't know. And you think it would be easier because you're like, it's me. But there's always different layers to go back and we're always changing. So I want to get into your spiritual journey next, but I want to talk about gender and sexuality. Let's start out with how you identify.

Yeah. I am a human being most of the time. I am a cisgender bisexual who explores polyamory.

Okay, so I'm gonna have you break down we were a lot of the terms that we're talking about today because I think it's the wild, wild west of like gender identity right now. I think it's very confusing to people, including myself. Sometimes I'm like, wait, sis, I gotta stop and think. So you're born as a man.

Cisgender. Male.

Male.

Bisexual.

Yeah.

Okay. Bisexual.

I didn't say male in there. I just said you didn't.

But some people don't wanna be identified as either male or female.

There's what, 72 different gender options on Facebook right now?

Yes.

Yeah. If you don't want to be identified as either or, there are a plethora of words that you can choose from. Agender, gender, non conforming, gender, non, binary. The list is.

And you know what, do you understand all of them?

I don't understand all of them. And as interested as I am in gender identity, I am also not attached to the idea of like, having definition for each gender. Personally, if I meet somebody and they identify as agender. Right. And I'm not sure what agender means. That's okay. Like, I want to hear it from the person that actually identifies. Yeah. As agender.

You know, with men, though, as much as you're with.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think it's a pretty even split.

Okay.

I think for, I don't know, the nine years that I was really drinking, there were a lot of relationships with men and women that like, seem really foggy to me. Right. That, like, I don't think I was treating myself well, so I wasn't treating anyone in my life well. I think that I'm a firm believer that you will love other people the same way that you love yourself. And I, like, wasn't really loving myself that much. And the second I got sober, I started taking my life seriously and, like, started taking relationships seriously too. Right.

Kind of to the best of your ability. You have a mission. You're like, doing your art, you're doing your work. You're like, you probably don't have time to be in like a committed lockdown, living with some relationship where you're compromising things. Right.

I love relationships.

I know, right? They're fun.

They're totally fun. And I love starting relationships and like, falling in love with somebody and getting to know somebody. And I, I've.

That's the best part. We call it the honeymoon phase.

Yeah. I. I love a honeymoon phase. And I've had like a good handful of like 4, 5, 6 month relationships that fizzle out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Those are the best men and women.

I've made a career on that.

Have you?

I always. Well, for years I was like, why can't we just keep doing this? It's like you always get to eat the frosting dessert all the time.

Yeah.

But.

But like, at the end of the day, I've hurt a lot of people, you know?

Right, right.

This sounds annoying and I've talked about this before, but I've never been broken up with. I've never been the one that is, like, destroyed. I've destroyed myself a couple times in it yeah. I've, like, left this trail, and it. That doesn't feel good.

Right.

And I think that at the end of the day, I. I haven't necessarily treated the people in my life as good as I could.

Right.

But I'm trying to be better.

You're learning. And I think that where that might come in is. And I did the same thing. I'm telling you, I left so many. I never have been broken up with. I'm trying to think if I have now, now it's a little different because. But back, I'd say I was a serial monogamist, but that would happen, and I would break up with them. I think I was, you know, intimacy issues. There's a lot of different reasons. But also, I think it comes down to communicating early on. Like, this is amazing. I love this, but I'm seeing other people. But when you're under that same spell, the honeymoon, it's amazing. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear your words, but, oh, my God, the sex is explosive and looking into your eyes, and I can't imagine this is ever gonna.

But also, I have a podcast now, right. Where people can go and listen to all of these stories of different people that I've dated. Right. And that is really something that I'm struggling with these days.

Oh, yeah. Do you want to. Like, I've been doing this for 12 years, so, yeah, I get it. I'm like, oh, my God. I've had guys call me. Be like, you went on another date last weekend? Or you.

Yeah, like, I. I got a phone call last week that was like, you know, maybe I shouldn't listen to this podcast. Maybe I should just, like, really get to know you face to face instead of listening to the podcast.

I tell people, not guys, not to. Like, when I've met people recently, and they're like, oh, we talk on the phone or however we meet, they're like, I'm gonna go listen. I'm like. But then I'm afraid if I say, please don't, then they're absolutely going to.

Well, the thing is, is, like, it depends on what episode they're listening to exactly.

They're all different.

And, like, when I recorded it, because I'm so fast, right. I'm a different person than I was last week.

I know exactly.

You know, so, like, I may have said some, like, a few months ago that, like, I don't necessarily totally stand by right now.

Exactly.

But it's out in the world, and I listen to it, and it. It. It programs the person that I'm dating.

You can just tell them it's your art and that's what you do. And you. It's like performance art in a way. You'd love them to get to know you one on one and have to listen. But they're still gonna do it. But yeah, that's really interesting. Okay, I'm gonna take a quick break. We're gonna give a shout out to our sponsors. Thank you, everyone, for supporting our sponsors. I gave you a little quick glim at some of the prizes you'll be going on with. But you guys, seriously, thanks for supporting them, keeping the show free. We love you all.

So where were we? Oh, dating. Right?

Yes.

It's hard with the podcast. People always say to me, like, are guys intimidated date you? Are people intimidated because of what you're saying or you're the expert? It's like, you know what? I could think about all those things. Or maybe they're just dating me for another reason, because they think I'll teach them something. You know, who knows? But I think I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character. And I would know, once I met them, what their intentions were. And then I realized I'm even taking more time than I would have in the past. Maybe, like, just jumping in bed with someone. Not that I wouldn't do that, but I'm just saying I feel like I'm a better. Like, I can kind of tell their intentions, but it's still gonna happen. Cause it's all out there.

Totally. And, like, I'm talking about being polyamorous all over the place right now too, you know? And, like, I think I realized that the people coming into my life either see that in one way or another. Like, I don't know. I mean, I can't imagine somebody that's coming into my life, like, doesn't fucking Google me.

Well, if you Google you.

Yeah.

Okay, so here's all your articles right here. Right. Let me. You guys. Then you gotta Google them right now. Cause you gotta check them out. It's like Younger Star reveals he's Sexually fluid. This is. Okay, here's another title. This is what a Queer Family Looks Like.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's a really important one, that one. Cause Bethany and I are on the COVID of the Advent.

Yeah, that's a beautiful piece.

We're the first ever male, female couple to ever be on the COVID of the Advocate.

Yeah, since it started. Which is. No, that's amazing.

But we got a lot of shit.

For that cover from the community we're.

Two white people who look and pass as a heterosexual couple who are talking about being queer. It's a problem for a lot of people.

Right? It is. But I love. But see, I love that you're breaking down all these barriers. I really do. So mostly for you right now, it's not like you're so concerned, you know, other people, you have to define maybe what you're into to other people. But for you now with relationships, it's really more about being polyamorous. And how would you define, like, your primary partner, I guess, would be Bethany.

Bethany, yeah.

Right.

For sure.

And so.

And we only, like, we've had sex twice in the last, like, two years.

Okay.

You know, so we're, like, not really sleeping together all the time.

Right. So you're more like. What do they call now? Single, poly, or like, poly single when you're just. When you're single but you're dating a lot of people?

Well, I'm not even dating a lot of people. I'm actually like.

Or sex. What are you doing?

Yeah, I mean, no, no, to be honest with you, I'm actually pretty monogamous in my idea of polyamory.

Like, I will explain that one. Monogamy, polyamory. Am. Are you okay?

I will meet somebody new, and I will give, like, most or all of myself to that new person from the get go to, like, really get to know that person. And I think, especially on a physical level, I, like, can't have sex with more than one person at a time. Or I haven't. I haven't been able to in the past. I, like, if I'm sharing with somebody, that is what I'm working on right now.

Right.

And that, like, I. I'm giving so much of myself to it. There's not actual space to like, like, sleep with him on Thursday night, sleep with her on Friday night. Like, I just. I just can't do it.

I get it. Because that's the thing about polyamory is that there are a lot of people I know in that world. They're like, oh, yeah. It literally is Monday nights with this person, Thursday nights with this person.

And that's beautiful.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

You can find it. But for you, it's more like four to six months with this person, four to six months, the next person.

But yeah. And like, if you. If you build the stable groundwork with a new person in your life and then you decide to, like, open it up and start seeing other people, I think that can be beautiful. But I Don't think you can, like, jump into a new relationship and be like, yeah, we're both gonna sleep with other people for the next couple months. And, like, good luck.

See, I have the same issue. So that's what I've always been kind of considering. I guess I have been. I don't really label it, but polyamorous in my past, and I guess maybe now I'm dating and sleeping with people. So. See, there you go. Now I'm in trouble. Like, oh, yeah, I was just sleeping with. But I think that it is. But when I meet someone and I actually like them, it is hard for me to be like, wait, I can't help. I get attached. I'm like, I think that you do need to build that foundation first and then be like, okay, maybe we should open it up, because otherwise, then you're just. Which is fine as well. You're just sleeping with several different people, but you're not gonna go any deeper with somebody. I think if you. If that's what's happening, it's harder at least for me to not have that intimacy.

But maybe, like, that is what I should do, actually. Like, maybe I don't need to get that deep.

I know it's not such an intensity that you have. Right. But. Well, that's what I was gonna ask you, so. Right. Are you doing it because it helps you feel safer? You, like, you know, you want them to make sure they really like you and get you. You want to feel understood.

I want to hold somebody's hand and, like, have fireworks explode.

Right.

And, like, that doesn't happen unless you know that person.

Right. Well, we know them how? Like, where they grew up and then.

Their mom's name, like, intimately know that person.

Okay.

Energetically. Like, share on a level that. That I think can only happen when you give yourself totally to that person for a certain amount of time.

Right. I understand what you're saying, but I've also had experiences, and again, this is not for everybody, where I can get really close with someone quickly. Like, I'm not, like, a bullshit person. So I think I'm pretty much the same wherever I go. Like, if you talk to me on this podcast or we met out on the street, like, I'm pretty much my. I have no secrets. You guys know. Know everything. I can connect with people, like, really pretty easily.

I can tell.

And, yeah, I'm like, oh, my God. So I feel like I can kind of go there. A lot of people interpret that as, wow, this could be something where I'm like, Not that I don't feel with everybody. Yes.

Do people fall in love with you really fast more than you fall in love with them?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. That's historically is what's happened. Yeah. Same with you, right?

Yeah, for sure.

And that feels good, though, too, right?

Like, yes, it feels great. Until it doesn't. Until you feel like you're fucking drowning. Right. And what I'm really working on right now is understanding how much love and affection I can actually receive, not necessarily how much love and affection I can give.

Right.

And I think that's been my struggle recently.

Is it easier for you to give it or to receive it?

Well, what are we talking about here?

I don't know. Anything.

No, no. Yeah. I think it's much easier for me to give than it is to receive anything.

Right. But you're saying you're not seeing several of them at once. So this is more like a few months and a few months and a few months. And then they're all like, but where are you going now? A few weeks. And then how do you.

You meet the people that are like, yeah. That say they love the same type of way that you do, or say that, like, this freedom exists, and then you realize that maybe it doesn't.

Right. Or they'll say anything to get to, like, oh, yeah, I want to be polyamorous, or I want to be open or, I'm cool. Does jealousy come up for you a lot?

I'm the least jealous person you'll ever meet. I have no problem dating somebody and them sleeping with other people.

Not at all.

Not at all.

Never. But what about the people that are in love with you? Do they get jealous?

Oh, yeah, right.

That's the problem, right? They get possessive and jealous. Like, I used to have this thing with men. They'd be like, oh, yeah, I love that you're so independent and free. And then eventually they would say something to the effect of, oh, I love that you're so out there, but I really just want to put you in this box. Or, let me just put you in my pocket. There's a million different ways I've heard that they want to own it and keep it for themselves. So what they're so attracted to in you, they actually just want to own.

It, lock it down, clip your wings. You and I both share this, like, same light, right? And I think that people are attracted to that light, but once they realize that the light is ours and it's just there for them to stand in, to not take, we immediately become the asshole Right.

Yeah, I guess so. You're right. That is what happens. Well, look how self aware you are. This is happening.

I mean, I think this is the next step. Right?

Well, it sounds like it.

My path, understanding all this.

Yeah, exactly. And then being really honest. See, I don't think that I was as honest with people earlier on. I never felt that monogamy made sense to me. Like, I was in college and I was like, I. I'll do it, because there was really no other options on the table. But then I always felt like I struggled with it.

And you're also a woman, too, so it's like it's a total.

Right, exactly. It is. And so. But now I think this is great that you're shedding light on it. It's like, people don't have a lot of great role models of what it means to be bisexual and to be open in the world to be a man who's bisexual. Like, people just. They just like, oh, you're just gay. It was funny. I was listening to your Sheila Nevins podcast, which I love Sheila. It used to be a documentary filmmaker before I was. Before I did Sex with Emily. And I just. I was such a Sheila Evans fan. Like, she was like the queen. She still is. You're like, I just want Sheila and Evans to meet with her.

She ripped me apart.

She was so funny. She's like, honey, you're not. You're not. You're not bisexual. You're gay. You're gay. Are you seeing a psychiatrist? Like, she was hilarious. So you're really in this place right now?

Well, look, I think that at the end of the day, we only believe what we see. And we've seen predominantly one story since the beginning of time, you know, and it is a white man and a white woman with kids.

Right, Exactly.

That's it.

That's the only thing we've seen. And now in the last, like, 50 years, maybe a little bit longer than that, we're seeing all these other stories. And in the last 10, 20 years now with social media, we're seeing all the stories, and we're starting to believe that more things are real, which is what I love.

It's not possible. Alternative relationships, polyamory, lifestyles.

For me, it's all about normalizing the quote unquote abnormal.

Right? So let's talk about sex for a minute.

Let's talk about sex just like we did.

That's how we met, being full circle to our panel. I don't know, like, how has it changed for you?

Yeah. Sex was, like, a lot scarier once I got sober.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. Because, I mean, I was so used to, like, going out, getting wasted, and bring somebody home.

Right.

Not like random people, but, like, having drunk sex.

Yeah.

And it just made things easier or a lot harder. Cause you just couldn't get it up when you were blacked out.

You know what I mean? Exactly.

But, yeah, you know, sex. Sex has become a lot more sacred since my sobriety.

Okay.

I'm really starting this exploration of my own sexuality and acts of sex to better understand how I can reach higher levels of it.

Do you mean more energetically using breath?

Yeah. Having more intense sex. Opening my mind to other possibilities of what sex can be and what sex can look like and what sex can feel like.

Can you describe one of those experiences you've had lately where it was like, this is a different experience. I want everyone to have expansive sex lives to not be set in the. I know how he gets off, she gets off. That's what we do. We fall asleep. It's like, no. There's so many ways to have sex and to enjoy it. And our bodies have an unlimited capacity for pleasure. And I think we don't even tap into it. Like, they say, use 10% of your brain. I don't even think that we understand our sexual capacity either. Like, our body is what we're capable of. So.

Yeah. I mean, for men. Right. Prostate play. I think that that is, like, something that I'm starting to understand what that actually means. And, like, how to achieve next level orgasms from prostate play. Right. And edging.

Yeah.

So you're jerking off. Right. You got some good porn on or something. And you stop right before you're about to come. Okay. And let it sit for a second. And it's hard to stop right before you're about to come. There's like. Like a quarter of a second that exists in that space. And you gotta let it breathe for a second. Right. Not touch it. Because if you touch it, it's gonna go and kind of start back again slow. And get back up to that point and see how many times in a row you can go and do that before you come. And it's all about controlling different muscles.

Right.

And the longer you wait, the better the orgasm will be. And the more you will come too.

Right.

Like, you're just building up this, like, shot.

Totally. And just, like, actual cum itself.

Right. Guys love that. A lot of calm shooting across the room.

So much calm. I was just gonna say. And you can do it with other People too.

Exactly. Right. It's so fun.

Yeah. Female edging, That's a thing.

Yeah, it kind of is a thing. Yeah, definitely. It is a thing. What do we call it for women? I mean, like, it's not really edging, but it's more like delaying your. I think it's the same thing as building up your. Your energy. Here's the thing about for women, which it's a more of an advanced practice because I think a lot of women are just like happy when they have an orgasm. It's harder for women. Right. It's more elusive. Like one thing happens and it's like the disappearing orgasm. But I think it's great to practice like when you're masturbating, when you know you're gonna get there and it's the same thing and you stop and then you build it up again and it's much more. Yeah. Explosive. Amazing. And then you could start to have full body orgasms sometimes when you just hold. I know a lot of men who've done that kind of practice where they just actually don't even ejaculate, like right into the body. So that's what I was wondering if you were talking about.

There's definitely some tantra work in my future. I haven't tapped into it quite yet, but I know that it is something that I will study at some point soon. For me, I'm also like, really at a point in my life where I'm understanding what the difference and if there is one really between having sex with a man and a woman and someone in between the two. Right. I think I'm opening myself up more to doing the work on understanding where those differences lie. Right now.

What would you say are the differences between having a sexual man and a woman?

On a basic level, it's just most of the time easier having sex with a woman because you don't prepare everything else. You know what I mean? Like a vagina, you know, naturally lubes. It's like, it's just. We're good to go. It's smooth sailing for the most part. And it can be that way with a dude. Just like, you have to get to that point. And just energetically, it's totally different. Right. Like, granted, there are. There are men that I've slept with that are extremely feminine.

Right.

That is much more like having sex with a woman than it is having sex with a man. There are women that I've slept with that are extremely masculine that like definitely dominate the entire experience. And it's a lot more Primal. More like having gay sex.

Right.

And I, you know, I've had sex with trans people that just, you know, fuck it all up. And you're all confused on what's going on.

Right. It must be. So you've had sex with trans women?

Yeah.

I have not had sex with a trans man.

Right.

I would love to have sex with a trans man at some point.

That should not be hard for you to find. Right, right.

But I'm not like, you've just got time.

You're so busy.

But I'm also not, like, being like, oh, hey, trans man. You want to have sex? Like, that's like, I want to, like, fall in love with a trans man at some point.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay. So you seriously, like, you have these experiences where it's a blank slate. You're not, like, going through your phone going, okay, I get late tonight. Tonight I want to be with a less dominant female.

I. I gauge my. What I'm into based on the porn that I'm watching.

Oh, okay. What porn are you watching?

Well, I mean, I watch everything. The last couple days, I've been watching straight porn.

Porn.

Straight porn?

Yes. But I mean, I've watched every type of porn that exists.

Do you always watch porn when you masturbate?

Not always.

Right, yeah. So you're going off. I got it. So you're at a straight thing. So then it's in your mind.

Right.

So the porn is dictating your sexual behavior.

In my head.

Okay.

It's not necessarily dictating, like, the type of sex that I'm having.

Right.

But I know that, like, if I'm dating a dude and I'm all of a sudden start watching straight porn, like, something's going on.

Right. I'm wondering, as you're in these places with people, like, there must be something else that goes on because you're saying you don't do any overlap. Like, I could very easily see, like, I'm into this guy, but I just watch him straight porn. And so I want to go have sex with a woman right now, but yet go back to the. The gay guy at the end of the week.

Not even necessarily gay, but bisexual.

Okay, Bisexual. Sorry. Yeah, no, see, now I'm already messing up.

No, it's totally fine. I usually date gay men, not bisexual men, so.

Well, why not bisexual men?

I've dated one bisexual dude. It was almost like we both knew too much about each other because we were both bisexual. I don't know. There was something about it that it was like, we have to go Spread this message instead of giving it to each other type of thing.

Okay.

And that could have nothing to do with the fact that we were bisexual. It was just that we were similar people. But I don't know. Yeah, I haven't. I've only dated one other bisexual dude.

Interesting.

Yeah.

So do you have a type though, within each one of these? Not at all.

I mean, kind of.

Okay, who won't you date? Is there any traits that's like a turn off for you?

Let's say like, physical traits?

I hate to do the physical thing, but yeah. I mean, kind of though, like, is there anything that it just. Or something that you lean. How about what you lean towards more than not Rather than putting it in a negative?

I lean towards men that are like brawny men. Like baseball player looking dudes.

Right.

And historically I like the women in my life to be like very much so. Pocket sized.

Cool. Yeah, maybe I'm. Yeah. Okay. Love to know that. That's great. So sex. Let's talk about sex, maybe. So okay, what about with women and men? The difference we were talking about just like the cleanup. But what about just like for women and like foreplay? Like, what have you learned about having sex with women?

There's a softness about having sex with women that I'm really into. Just even like their skin.

Right.

I am as attracted to like beautiful, supple, soft skin as I am to like a hairy fucking leg and like a soft face and like small lips compared to like a big dude's face with a big fucking beard. I can get down with both.

Right. And it really is just where I am. Wherever you're at in your life, that's just so fascinating. Is there anything that you've learned about women? I get it. You're with so many different kinds of women. But if you had to say there's like these certain things about women that is kind of a universal truth. Even though we're all different.

We're talking sexually or we're talking.

Yeah, sexually.

I love eating pussy.

Awesome.

And I think all women love that.

Yeah, many do. I believe that many women do. And that for women, there's some women who really don't like it's. They're super sensitive and like just doesn't feel good. But I love that you love it because there's a lot of men who I think they just do it to get. It's a means to an end and.

They don't love it. I could do it for hours.

Wow, that's amazing. That's a great Deal. That's like. That's the ultimate, I think.

Yeah.

Really so enjoyed talking to Nico. You can find him on Instagram and Twitter at nicotorcarella. Stay tuned for my interview with Jason Ellis.

I'm here with renaissance man Jason Ellis. He hosts his daily SiriusXM radio show. He's got a podcast called Elastronics. He's an MMA fighter, skateboarder, amazing dad, and just an all around sexy man. I'm so glad he's here today. Hi, Jason.

Hello, Emily.

So good to see you. How's your. How's your relationship? Because we talk a lot about sex. So when I first met you, like a year ago on your podcast, you were with your girlfriend, now your wife?

Yeah. No, not yet. We're married. August.

Because you guys are like in open relationship still.

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't get that crazy because we're allowed to and the novelty is worn off. It's like we could have sex with everybody and everybody. Everybody wants to have sex with us. Let's do that. Look, we're very stable and we're super open and we have no fear when it comes. Like, obviously, make sure you don't have any diseases or anything, but once that's clear, we'll do anything with you.

Right?

And then the next day, there's no weird hang up, I don't care, like, you're coming home with me, and that's the end of it.

But how did you get to that place, would you say? In the past, you said your relationships weren't as healthy, but because we've a lot of questions, a lot of people ask us, should I be in a relationship? How does my wife get over jealousy or I'm jealous, or how did you get to this place?

You just got to be comfortable with yourself and you got to. You got to trust your partner. And, I mean, when I was younger, it never really worked. If people ask me I should, you know, should I have a threesome? I would just say, honestly, if I have, because it's a stupid question you should be asking me. You should ask yourself. But if you're asking me, I would say no. Because if you're asking and then there's a little bit of hesitation, then you've got drama on your hands. And if you really love the person you're with, do you want to add drama to it so that you can have an extra pussy in the scene?

Because it doesn't sound worth it.

And it's not. It's. It's kind of overrated.

Tell me More about that, I don't know.

Like, very. I mean, I've had three. I've had so many orgies and threesomes and dicks and pussies everywhere, right? And probably one hand, I can count the ones where I was like, that was amazing. And there was no backlash from it, Right?

The rest of it, you gotta be really right heading into these things. Maybe it's part of the process. You learn from them. You know, each one, I guess you learn how to do it better. But you're right. People are like, that's like the Holy Grail. Cause they just want something other than what they have.

That's all.

They want the newness. They want something different. So it also comes with experiment. At age. At 25, you couldn't have felt this way because you wouldn't have had all those orgies and pussies.

Well, I also think you don't. You know, there comes, like, a, you know, wisdom, you know, when you're 25, you're like, maybe. Maybe that maybe she does like him more than she likes me or, you know, or, you know, a girl that I haven't slept with. Like, I want to have sex with her more than I want to have sex with the girl that I'm with. Because I've never had sex with this girl. And then the girl that I'm with is like, wait, you're paying too much attention to her. Do not do this.

Right.

If the girl's like, you're pumping that girl too much, then you shouldn't be pumping anybody.

Exactly.

Because that is you looking at it the wrong way. It's like, I want. If somebody's fucking my fiance really good. Good. We didn't get into this for him to fuck her poorly, right?

Like, that's such a healthy attitude. People don't understand that.

And I always have sex with a girl and another girl because they want to have sex with two pussies and feel like the king of the world. And they don't care what they have to do to drag their significant other into this thing. And a lot of sad stories are that the girl is okay with it to keep the man.

And that's not the best solution.

It's the worst solution.

The worst. So what would you tell a guy then? Because, yes, now every guy's emailing me now about her calling is 45. They're like, in their 20s. Can you have this wisdom then? Like, do you think that you would have known this? I mean, I'm telling couples all the time, wait till you're on solid ground. You don't have a threesome to solve your relationship. I'm always. You know, we talk about this on the show by. We're on the same page with this, but I don't know how else they're still gonna wanna do it. It's almost like you had to go through that. I can let people make their own mistakes, but I'm telling you now, if you love your partner and you're with them and you guys are in a good place, but you just need to spice things up, that's not the right way to do it.

No, no. It's a risky move, to say the least.

Guys are like, I want to. Even girls when they're bachelorette parties, they're like, I. This is why I'm doing it, because I can never tell my partner again. They have this idea that once they get married, that's when they stop experimenting and stop doing all the stuff that's crazy and fun and exciting. But it doesn't have to be that way.

It's the opposite.

Right?

I'm gonna get mad. Wait. I'm gonna get wild one more time before I get married and spend the rest of my lame life with you. Like, wait, what?

Right? It's like, I don't know where that. Culture, religion, society. No one's talking about this, really.

I think it's because. Cause we talked about it today. I think it's because when people got married when they were younger and it was like, maybe this is. It is too soon. And when you get married, you are giving up your life. Things have changed now. You get married when you're older, a little more stable. This is not the end of it for you. This is not the end of the road. This is the beginning. I think if you're 20 and you're gonna get married and you are under the impression that this is the only person you're gonna have sex with for the rest of your life, and you're 20. That's some harsh.

I know.

I might want to get drunk and have sex with a prostitute too. That sounds like, terrifying.

I just say people shouldn't get married before 30, at least.

I agree completely.

Right. Like, why? You don't know yourself, but they don't know that. They don't know their self. They're so in love.

That's the first thing I say. I mean, Rocky, I'm not sure what to do. I'm like, how old are you? And if it's under 30, it's hard for me not to laugh. At them.

Do you get these questions?

You don't understand. I really love her. I'm like, you're 25. You don't even know what really loving anyone is.

Exactly. Yeah, it's a mistake. But, you know, people have to go through their own things. They meet someone, they learn, and they're like, oh, now I.

The hard way.

Sometimes that's the only way you learn.

It is. Well, I love it. You seem like you're, you know, in a good place. So you guys are not. Can we go back to your sex life for a minute? So we were talking about. I love your. Even if it's right now, you're.

Yeah.

Still there.

No, we. We didn't have sex for maybe two weeks before the fight. We played around a little bit, but no, actual. In the end, it was like, maybe we could. In the last two weeks, I was just like, you know what? I'm not gonna actually come. I'm just gonna hold it off. Cause I just felt super low in sex drive. So that told me. And this could be. I'm not a doctor. I felt like if I'm super low in text sex drive, then my testosterone is being tapped to the max, so I'm not going to lose anything. And then I had this theory that if I get an erection a bunch of times, see some hot shit, look at my girl from a different angle, get her friends to, like, take their tops off, get a boner, and then leave and go to the gym, that's building more testosterone. I'm farming more testosterone.

So that's what you would do. You'd come to a point of not.

Even close to orgasm, but you just.

Get turned on and then you go to the gym.

Yep.

God's like having a cup of coffee, but better in a way.

Something like that. Yeah. You're adding it.

I get it. Okay. I want to talk to you about masturbation real quick, because it's masturbation month. And we had a bunch of questions that came in. So here's the thing. Okay? So everyone, what Jason is talking about, he just came in. He's been knocked out. He won a huge fight this week last weekend. Just. He didn't. What was the name of your fight?

It was a king of the cage fight.

Okay.

It's like.

It was huge. And it was like. You got knocked out at the beginning. You came back.

I didn't get knocked out. I got knocked out.

I don't see. I don't even want to talk about it because it's like a chick talk about sports. I suck at it. But you did something awesome and came back great. Okay. So proud of you for that. But masturbation. So think back before the fight, before the training. How often do you masturbate?

Well, I masturbate in the steam room all the time because guys try to jerk me off or whatever. So there's that kind of thing that happens, but I don't finish myself off. I don't really want to say the actual statement.

We got it right. Okay. You're right. Well, maybe you'll get a lot more blowjobs.

I get a lot of blowjobs.

You do. And you just don't even know.

I'm the hardest person in. It's like being a pretty girl. I know what it's like, kind of to be an attractive lady.

Right, Right.

Because when I go there, everybody shits a brick and I'm like, this is fucking crazy.

It's kind of great.

How can anybody, you know, I'm a chewed up man. It's kind of weird. You walk around there because I have a very straight large penis. Well, that too. But I have a straight and I'm uncut. And that seems to be a thing that gay guys love as well. There's like a. I have all the things that a gay guy's really into. Being straight, they love that, right? Having a big dick. It's uncut, all those things. And I look buff. I got a lot of tattoos. I look like a warrior of sorts. Gay guys love that shit.

Love it.

So there's just a constant, like, they like. I get like a little harem of gay guys following me into different steam rooms, like trying to jerk off in front of me and stuff. And I'm just. I am like a stuck up, pretty lady. Like, I don't touch anybody. I just sit there and they're like.

Can I give you. Right, yeah.

And then I'll like maybe let somebody jerk me off or maybe blow me if you're lucky, like a. Like a stuck up little bitch.

And this was not you a year ago.

No, I mean, it might have been, but I just didn't tell anybody.

Okay. Right. But now you've come out, you got so. I mean, this is like the whole. What an amazing transformation.

I'm allowed to. I know this story gets told to my fiance when I get home from it. So this is, is. This is not.

See, this is. What we're saying is that you shouldn't get married. Someone that you can't share all these stories with. And people are like, But I couldn't. But you can. You really can find someone that would be. I. I've yet to. I haven't really been looking for it, but now it's a longer story about what I want. But I get that this is what I would want. I don't want any secrets. I don't want to cheat. Cheat.

It's hard. Like, I mean, I was squeezed to tell the truth. I felt like. Even when she was like, you can tell me anything, I was like, I don't. Not this one. I mean, you got to admit the story I just told you right then. I don't think a lot of women find me attractive when I say that.

About what? The men.

About me.

You're saying that it's sexy when you say it. See, I get it. That women might.

You know what I mean? But my fiance thinks that it's hard. And we laugh about it. We laugh about guys that, you know. I'll be like, this guy came in and had, like, a giant dick and just sat in the corner. And she's like. Cause she loves the Time of Finland stuff. She's super into the gay guy with the big buff gay guys that wear, like, leather chaps and stuff. She's kind of a gay guy. That's why it works out. But if there's anybody that's really big in there, I'll tell her the story when I get home. And she just thinks that it's the funniest shit ever. And we laugh about it.

Right. That's awesome. And she's with women and men.

She made out with a. I was making. After my fight, one of my friends. She's in porn. She got her tongue cut, so it's like a snake. And I made out with her. That was all we did. We made out with her. She's got a split tongue. She's so hot.

She's got it split. I don't know what that. I don't know what that is.

She's serpent. Her tongue goes like this.

But she cut it so it would do that. Yeah, I've kind of heard about that.

Stitched and then stitched up so it's permanent like that. And she can make both, like, sides move around.

That's fucking crazy.

I know. I'm gonna get a blowjob from her.

You did or you're going to.

It's on the list. It was. There was people in the room. It was inappropriate time, but it's coming.

Okay. I believe. I believe that. I believe that you could probably get a blowjob. She said she, which is a pretty good place to be in the world, but by it.

By a serpent.

Dude. I don't know anyone else who's done that.

It's so metal, right?

Yeah, dude. I mean, I don't even know. But you're happy and getting lots of blow jobs, and I'm really happy for you. Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Let's go to those questions on the. There was some good. You can help me with this because I don't have a penis. Hi, Emily. Love your show. I enjoy listening and get a lot of helpful tips to make my sex life way better. I got a question. My girlfriend and I really want to have a threesome. And we're talking about it and we're getting really excited. We've never had a threesome before. And I'm going for she comes first, which is the whole thing I talk about on the show. She has to come first, which makes sex life great. How can I get into threesomes without giving one the feeling of being neglected? I want this to be a nice, relaxing time with lots of fun and no jealousy. What can we do? Thanks. Regards, George from Germany. We kind of touched on this earlier, but you are the threesome. I think we had a threesome once. You don't even remember.

That's how many packs we didn't say that about.

Okay, I'm kidding. But you've had a lot. And so this is like the kind of questions we could ask. We've been talking about it. We're both kind of excited. I think there's another question here. Like another girl's. His wife's not so excited. But anyway, let's say they are both. Let's. Let's say for the sake of this question, they're both really excited. They're on board. They've covered all the ground. They've set the rules. They've set the, you know, you can't kiss her or whatever.

Can I kiss.

I don't know. People make these rules. You can't have sex. I know. Cause when you're in the moment, you want to do it all.

Threesome. Everyone has mouths and vaginas and buttholes.

Lots of warp stuff.

Everyone's gonna touch everything.

I gotcha.

Well, the first rule of threesome club is that if you're the person that is the guest in this threesome, and I'm assuming there's a man and a girl here and then another girl, the other girl is last, she's the girl that doesn't get as much attention as your Girl. Your girl gets the most attention. So you need to remember that at all times. And the second one would be, you need to make sure that there isn't a situation where one of them is sitting there out of the game. You need to make sure that they're both in play at all times.

How do you do that?

I mean, you've got a penis and a mouth. You know what I mean? So I always have to be connected to one of them.

Right, Right.

Or they're connected with each other and you're organizing that. And you can, like, tickle the bits that they have free.

Right.

But you're definitely. It's.

It's not about your penis.

No. You're the only one there that has one. So of course it's gonna be about you in the end.

By default.

Yeah.

But in your brain, you gotta prioritize.

You get too giddy. Guys get giddy and they start slamming into one of them and they can't use their hands or their mouth well because their penis is busy. And that's. That's. That's a game that you need to learn quick. And you need to. And you also need to not come. You need to make sure that they come at least once each before you even think about it. I feel like, really, you need an athletical penis. You need to be like, have you girls had enough orgasms? And then the end of the threesome is when you come. Unless you're a guy that can come and then. And keep it up. I don't know that guy. Cause usually there's a break there.

Right? So there's a practice here for men. Little longer. Those are great rules. And also, I tell. You know, they establish rules ahead of time. Meaning or even, are we both. Are we truly comfortable with this? And some couples say, look, I don't want her to sleep over, or I don't want you to have penetration.

No, you don't want her to sleep in the bed.

Yeah, yeah, you don't want to sleep in the bed. Figure all that stuff out and then. That's a great answer. I agree that you got to prioritize. That's how she get jealous. If you're kissing this girl for one second longer, she's going to be pissed at you. It's a good answer. Okay, Emily, thanks for making a space where sex can be talked about in a way which is healthy, safe, and fun. I've been musing over whether or not an open relationship is a good or bad decision. My wife and I have been married for about A decade. Our sex life has definitely started to flatline. My brain, on the other hand, is wired for new experiences. Not necessarily with other people, but new experiments in the bedroom that light my brain on fire. Plus, my sex drive seems to be quadruple hers. I think we've had healthy conversations about this, but she's hesitant to try new things. At one point she suggests an open relationship, but she retracted. Our situation is causing some tension. An open relationship might release that for both of us. But I also don't want to treat the symptom and not the deeper problem, which might be a lack of sexual connection with my wife. Two questions. Are there ways to help make an open relationship healthy and more comfortable for her? And are there things we could do better to connect sexually? Thanks. Denzel, 29, Minneapolis. Yeah, he can't push this one. You can't push an open relationship on your partner. She's not on board. It's not just like a threesome or anal. Or anal. Thank you. Thank you, Jason. You actually can't push any of these things on your partner. You're not gonna talk her into it. You'll regret it. She won't really be on board. So. So I'm going to answer your. Because it's going to go wrong. Have you ever been in situations, Jason, in your past relationships where you tried to force open relationships? They didn't want it. Or swinging. It didn't work right.

I've done everything incorrectly. That's how I know how to do so.

That's why you're the epitome of health right now. You can't make an open relationship healthy and comfortable for her unless she wants to do it. So you're not going to convince her. She's hesitant. She's gone back and forth. You love your wife. You want to stay together. So I can answer your question. What can we do to better connect sexually? Because that's where the problem is, is going out, having threesome, open relationship. That's not going to heal your relationship. That's not going to feel better. You're going to go have sex with people, and I'm telling you, it will not. And your wife probably won't because she's not feeling like she's having sex right now. It's not going to work. But to connect sexually, you got to just start to. First, you got to start talking about it with her, like, really, like communicating with her, because really, it's about enhancing intimacy. So if you guys have never talked about sex, and there are so many couples who just Don't. Don't know how to talk about sex. It's not comfortable for them. We never learn the language, how to talk about. We think it's like this. It should be amazing. And when it's not, we don't know what to say. And then we cheat. We wanna have a threesome, whatever. But you gotta say, like, babe, I love you. I love our relationship. Let's put that open relationship. Take that off the table and let's talk about us. You know, she might not even know what turns her on. You can go to a sex toy store. You can watch porn together. You can just talk about some hot sexual moments you've had together. Because I don't know what level your wife is at. So you could even take sex off the table if you guys are like.

Might be a good idea to do that actually, right?

And then start, like, exploring each other again.

She's just gonna think that's all you care about, that it's all about sex. You have to talk about everything else but that you have to be your friend again. And a lot of girls say that they're not into sex or into certain things when it comes to. In the bedroom because they don't know about it and they'd rather just deny that they were even interested in it in the first place, I find. Yeah, but if you get on their good side and then it's sort of like you're doing it together as a team, and they're like, well, maybe I would like to initiate some stuff. Because now you're not going to be ridiculed for attempting to discuss something that in the bedroom you're usually. You'd be like, whoa, I didn't know you'd be the into that kind of stuff. Like, I think girls get weird about that. They don't want to be the first person to bring it up. They don't want you to think that you're freaky in the bedroom. Because freaky in the bedroom's been related to your slut.

Right?

They don't want to sound slutty so.

Bad for women because it's like, we can't win because then we're like, if we're super slutty, then people call us slutty, which is so wrong. I mean, and then if you, like, you're. You're not having any sex at all, and you're like, it just. There's no end of this. There's no right end for women except just to, like, do you and figure.

Out what makes you feel like Being super romantic and all that stuff, and all that stuff that was awesome is the way, is the only way. Like if you're super understanding, romantic, and you do things that, that she would never see coming, that doesn't involve your dick, then other things like that maybe later on they, they, they come later. Or maybe they don't. But I guarantee your relationship will be better, right?

I mean, there's something going on. After 10 years together.

He's only 28 too. It's like, come on.

Oh, yeah. He's 29, so yeah, there's some things that are harboring. You're probably like, she's upset about some things. She doesn't even realize it. Who knows what's been happening? So you guys gotta unearth whatever is holding her back from this intimacy. And then when I say take sex off the table, what I meant was also I like the idea of the romantic gestures. But like, say, like, let's just start with the foreplay again. Let's start making out. Let's start doing. Exploring each other's bodies of rotten stones again and build up to, like, how great it was at the beginning. You can bring that back.

Girls really love when you don't just go for the pussy. Yes, they love. I can't believe how long it took me for me to figure this one out. But you can do stuff to them where you kiss them and kiss their neck and like tickle their legs and their feet and stuff. And don't touch their pussy, don't touch their tits, don't touch too close to their asshole. Like you could touch their butt, but even that, you're getting too close. But you can go every now and then, if you go near their belly, which is near their vagina, you back off again. All those ones go, yeah, but I just would. I would never know, which makes me feel like a lot of guys don't. It's like we're making out. Okay. The making out is getting pretty serious. So I should probably start grabbing your pussy.

Exactly. Dude, I've been talking about this for 12 years. I'm like, don't go straight for it. So how did you learn this? Just from.

I learned this is cheating. But I learned from a lesbian friend of mine that was super into my girlfriend and would do this stuff. And it was the first time she told me about it. I was insulted. I didn't like that she was telling me what I should do with my fiance with my girlfriend at the time that would make me better in the bedroom. I'm like, I know how to fuck my girlfriend. Bitch, like you don't know. But then I started applying it. It turns out she was spot on because girls know girls. It's like, guys know how to suck. Sorry.

No, we know we want the teasing. And I think that guys, when I say this to them, they. I've said this for a million times. Like, we. The last thing we want is when we're making out for you. Go right for it. And this still happens with men that I've been with all ages. And I love that you finally learned this. And so it's more like the teasing thing. You realize that's what we're talking about. Arousal that will build and in fact, you'll have to do less work in the end because she's so frigging turned on. You want her, like, being like, I need you to touch me, bro, right now.

That's how you get it.

I love that you learned this. Hope you liked my interview with Jason Ellis. Find him at Wolfmate on Instagram and ellismate on Twitter. So tell me this. Did you hear a tip or a trick or conversation that you just know your friend or family member or a colleague would just love? Well, how about listening with them, listening with your partner to learn something new? I'm always learning. Aren't you? Subscribe to Sex with Emily for more sexual dating and relationship advice. You can find us on all social media. It's exwithemily. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com there's one overlooked mineral behind better sleep. Sharper focus, stronger muscles, and a healthier heart. And at least half of us aren't getting enough. Most people don't realize they're running low on one of the most vital minerals for human health. Magnesium. And here's the thing. No single form of magnesium can deliver all of its benefits. That's exactly why Qualia Magnesium plus was created with 10 highly bioavailable forms of magnesium plus over 70 essential minerals. It provides total magnesium support, helping you sleep better, think clearer, move stronger, and feel your best every day. And honestly, when you're less stressed and more energized, your intimacy and desire naturally benefit too. Sure, magnesium can help you sleep sleep. But Qualia Magnesium plus goes beyond that. It's a whole body nourishment for how you think, move, connect and feel. More than just a sleep supplement. It's a foundation for daily well being, which absolutely supports a healthier sex life. Getting enough magnesium from food alone is harder than ever due to depleted soils and chronic stress. And our body's reduced ability to absorb it as we age. Well, Qualia's Magnesium plus formula is non gmo, vegan, gluten free and designed so all the ingredients work together for comprehensive of magnesium support. And personally, I've been taking Qualia Magnesium plus in the evenings and I really noticed calmer nights and clear mornings and just feeling more grounded in my body, which always makes intimacy feel more accessible and enjoyable. It's become such an easy part of my nightly routine. Experience the most trusted magnesium for your purity, potency and performance. Go to qualia life.com sex with Emily for 50% off and here's a bonus use the code Sex with Emily for an additional 15% off your order. That's Q U A l I a life.com sexwithemily thanks for Qualia for sponsoring this episode.