Rose Colored Relationships

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Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

Emily, you got a boyfriend? Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken.

He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standard.

Oh my, the women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh my God, I feel so drunk. Being bad feels pretty good.

But you know, Emily's not The kind.

Of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com we are social media across the board is Sex with Emily. And okay, guys, we are still bringing you all the content during this COVID 19 pandemic. And I just want to say that we're still providing you with three podcasts a week. I'm also doing a lot more on social media across all my platforms. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube. It is sex with Emily everywhere. And as always, whatever you need from me, you can send me your questions to feedbackexwithemily.com and then check me out at all those lives, too. I'll be doing daily. Because, listen, guys, this is really the time where we have to focus on really good, excellent communication and intimacy is important and taking care of ourselves, whether we're alone or with lovers. And I think we all have a lot more time on our hands right now to use our hands and our minds wisely. So I am here to help you in sending you lots of love and intentions for the show. Okay, guys, each show, I start off by setting an intention. And so what I think is, you know, while you're listening, what do you want to get out of listening to this episode? How could it help you? Like, maybe you're thinking, I've been spending a lot of time with my partner, and I'm starting to notice behaviors I haven't before. Could it be manipulation? Or maybe, you know, you've had luck going through something like this. You're both going through this, and you want to get more insight on how to help someone who chooses a toxic partner. My intentions for the show to give you insight on how even if someone seems like a really good person, there might be red flags, there might be behaviors they're hiding in plain sight, how to notice it and how to do something about it. All right, guys, enjoy the show. I'm on this kick this year. In the last few weeks, I call it a kick if I for two weeks, have been watching more television than I watched in the last year.

That's a kick for you.

And one of the things I just, I finished the first season of you last night on Netflix.

It's so good.

And it is. If you haven't seen it, it's all about. And I just kept thinking about all of you because it's about, you know, this guy played by Beth Penn Badgley. Penn Badgley. And he essentially is a sociopath manipulator and takes place in New York. And he's like this boyfriend who really, at some point you're like, I could see that, like, maybe if he just killed one person, I would still have sex with him.

Talk about devotion.

He's a stalker, essentially. And he stalks, you know, with social media now. I mean, it's really not that far of a stretch that somebody could stalk you to that extent. And I leave my windows open sometimes. Not anymore. Not since I said it now. But she leaves her windows open. She can see him having sex with people. Like, it's crazy. But then I thought about it, like, this manipulation. And at different points in your life, what it got me thinking about was, and if you guys have seen, you know, let me know what you think about this. But in watching it, I'm like, I probably would have dated someone like Joe Goldberg 10 years ago. I have been. I have allowed myself to be responsive to less than healthy partners. I've never been, like, abused physically in a relationship. I haven't had that kind of abuse. I haven't had anything like super horrible. But I have allowed myself to be with people who on the surface level were really nurturing, and they were, like, remembered everything I told them, and they were sending me flowers, and they were. Seemed to be very attentive and sweet. But then there's always a flip side where they turned out to be more manipulative or controlling. You know, I understand you can't have it all, but control is something that I'm just like, if you're going to try to control me, that does not work. My whole life is around being free. But I know I can understand that, like, slippery slope between feeling like somebody is so attentive and nurturing and there for you, and then having this feeling like something's off. And you know what I love it ends with, like, when things are too good to be true. I think you have to believe that if somebody is too good to be true or something is too good to be true, it probably is. Like, I just believe, like they say, there's no free lunches.

It's just unfortunate, though.

It is really unfortunate.

Why can't we hold on to that?

We can't.

Well, you can.

You can for just a little bit.

And then you get married. You get killed.

Speaking of the ultimate too good to be true, let's talk about the honeymoon phase that everybody goes through in a relationship. From six months to two years. There is a period where you first meet somebody and you are falling in love or falling in Lust, and everything's amazing and your body's reacting to it. You're literally your endorphins, all the feel good hormones are raging. But what happens after everything? Something comes up, it comes down, and that's what happens. And I think a lot of us run around chasing those early stages of a relationship, which is also too good to be true because it's not gonna last. And you just got to figure out how to get back to that. But when you're dating somebody, sometimes you find out, you know, before it's too late, that, that, you know, you're. You're so knee deep in the relationship that you are like, oh, shit, I really love this person. But there's all these messed up things. But I believe that you have a hunch early on. Like, even in you, she. Early on, she was like, I don't know you. I don't know your family, I don't know your friends.

Like, right, you know my life, but, you know, I don't know your life. That always freaks me out. I'm like, I need to know that there's. You have other people going on. Like, if I meet someone, they don't have friends. I. That is the biggest thing that's a.

Deal breaker, I think, why not?

But he's so hot. You don't even care.

You don't care, right? For a little bit. But you're like, you have no friends. You have no past. You don't ever. I mean, I've even had friend dates just going out with women that I think are cool. And it's weird when they don't ever talk about their past or they don't want to put an anchor in any statement. Like, so I just think, and I'm wondering for you guys, has this ever happened to you? Have you ever fallen for someone where you feel like you had to justify their behavior? All your friends were like, no, I'm not sure that they're so good for you. And you kept justifying and justifying and then you found out they were a serial killer. No, hopefully not.

Hopefully not.

You found out that everything that you thought about was true. Have you ever been manipulated by someone? And you kept justifying it.

So did you. But, like, so obviously you hopefully never dated a murderer. No, but, like, what were some of those things where you were like, oh.

Oh, God, I've dated people who. I feel like I dated this guy once, I remember. And this again, I think this happens a lot that you date people. Although this isn't true. If you look at all The. The true crime. Things like Dear John. Like, she was a woman in her 50s who couldn't have. It was dating the manipulator. But I think I've. I've done a lot of work on myself. I've done a ton of therapy and self work, but in my 20s and 30s, probably dated more people than. Not that. Like, this one guy, he courted me so hard, and he was very lovely. My friends knew him. He had. Came from a really good background. Every week he sent me orchids. He lived in Texas at the time, was back and forth. He sent me orchids, and he sent me. He sent me. But we would see each other a lot. Not too much. Eventually. He showed up all the time. But he was very, like. He remembered everything about me. He was very, like. He loved taking care of me in ways that I just wasn't able to myself. He was very attentive.

Okay.

And that was great. Until I realized that the flip side of being really attentive and nurturing is he was very controlling and somewhat manipulative. Like, he was like, okay, we're going to my family's house for the holidays, and could you. Could you wear something navy? I'm like, navy. Like, his family, they were, like, kind of conservative. I'm like, navy.

Is that like, the conservative?

I guess so. I'm like, do you want me to put on some pearls? Like, what do you want me to wear? And then he would, like, pack my suitcase for me, which I liked because I have packing trauma. I'm not a good packer. But then I realized after a while, like, oh, no, this is. Actually. Everything was on his turn. He's doing everything to make sure that I would buy in and then control, control, control. And that was unhealthy for me.

I was like, how much navy did you even own?

None. I said, I don't know. I'm Jewish. I wear black. We don't wear navy. I don't wear navy. Like, come on. But. And then my mom was like, I don't think this is. This is what you want. So it was. It was. Yeah. So that was something. I was. Today I was like, after watching that, I was just like, wow, I probably would have slept with Joe Goldberg, like, on a. You know.

Yeah. Do you think, like, in your 20s.

You might have been maybe, like, he was attentive? What was it? He just. He seems like he works at a bookstore. He's smart. He's sensitive. He's handsome.

He's good with kids.

He's good with kids.

It's like, that's the only way you survive him is if you're a child. He's like, oh, no.

Exactly.

Not gonna kill you.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Who knows, though, right? And so I'm trying to, like.

I'm trying to think if this ever happened to me. I don't think so. Well, kind of. It wasn't super manipulative, but I had this other guy.

I was thinking about it today. I went to. I remember being at my friend's birthday. We all went to Chicago. It was like her 30th birthday, and five of us met there. And I was dating a guy who. Okay, he was questionable. He was going through. I think I was like, 30. He was going through a divorce. But he was so fun and he was so. And my friends were like, I just think he's weird. He's really off.

Oh, so your friends saw it?

My friends saw it right away. They're like, really, like, they. And they still, to this day, they're like, john. I'm like, I know, I know, I know. Can we please forget about John? But something. I got so swept up in his. He wanted. He just was really into, like, helping me be more creative. And he was working on my film I was doing at the time, and he just was. To me, he was eccentric, but turns out he was just kind of a little creepy and confusing to my friends. So we were at her birthday in Chicago. We all flew in, and all of a sudden he texts me. Was this text that. Yeah. He's like, my plane got diverted and I have to land in Chicago. And my friends are like, bullshit. I'm like, no, you guys. He was flying to New York, and maybe he really had to be in Chicago. And he's like, you know, the. He's like, circling, circling. And they're like, that's weird. And when you're knee deep in it, you just can't see it. I mean, I probably dated him for, like, three months, and we did a lot together. But then I was like, oh, God, gotta. And then he had, like, a breakdown. Had to go back to, like, the Midwest. Oh, that's so. I knew. I knew it, but I couldn't. You know what I'm talking about? Like, you don't wanna see the red flags. You don't wanna see the signs. Because your heart or your lust is just like, no people. You guys are all wrong. Cause you don't know what I feel. And I. Then it's like. And you can easily. Well, you. You wouldn't know because you're married now or you wouldn't know because you don't know what it's. You know what I'm like, he gets me.

Oh my God.

Sometimes you gotta trust your friends and trust your family. I just want to know if you guys have had a you story of being manipulated by somebody or, you know, not recogn. Not. Not paying attention to your own gut about people.

I mean, well. Cause that's the thing. Like when you are blinded by the love, the creepy gesture is romantic to you. Like, that's literally the difference. Do you like this person? If you like them, then it's like the guy at the end of say Anything with the boombox, and it's romantic. But imagine that same scenario. Like, if you didn't like the guy, I'd be like, what the fuck? This guy's outside my house with a fucking boombox.

Call the police.

Like, literally. And that's the difference, which is like.

If we're into it, we can't see it. Well, that's like the red. The red flags, you know, painted white, I guess.

Is that the.

Oh, I don't know.

I just know what it is. It should be a phrase.

It is. And you can't see it through all the. Through all the tension and all the things. You're like, it's not that bad. But honestly, like, the issues you have right away are typically the issues you're gonna have forever. The issues you have on the first date, you'll likely have forever. I mean, who isn't. Okay, who's in a fight with their partner right now? Who's frustrated about something with your partner right now. And if you're honest with yourself, you had a hunch when you first met. I think that that's legit. I mean.

And then, I mean, just bringing it back to. To you, is this that, like. I mean, he's just a guy who is just, you know, nice and kind and cool. But it's like, isn't. Shouldn't everyone be nice and kind and cool?

I feel like, as a whole, I.

Feel like we've all just lowered our standards just because we're like. I don't know if it's because we're getting more desperate or if people overall are getting shittier or.

I think there's a crisis of connection and we aren't really meeting as many people as we used to and we're not putting ourselves out there as much, and we're not. And maybe there's just more danger now talking about people. People are more self conscious about Things. And I don't think that we're putting ourselves, especially here, like the big cities, like living in Los Angeles or New York or San Francisco where like everything is delivered. You drive through, drive, drive through to pick up your, you know, your latte or your medication at Walgreens, like, you don't have to get out of your car. You don't have to see people. You could get. You think we're tricking ourselves into feeling fulfill filled and connected. If we're like on our phone, on a dating app or texting somebody, you get the same rush as if you're with somebody. So I think that's also why we're just not going out. Like, there was a study that came out, right? Like the people are. This is the first time this year that I think it's the second or the first. Most common way people are meeting people is online. And it used to be like at a bar. And that like fell way down. So I think people aren't even just hanging out to meet people anymore. They're like, well, I'm on the app, so I'm gonna try to secure a date.

And yeah, and then when you are at a bar, like, because you've always said like, oh, don't be on your phone. So I've tried not being on my phone and feeling like I'm sitting there approachable. So I don't know why I feel.

Like they're on their phone.

Well, that's what I'm saying. So no one even like sees me. And then the only people that aren't on their phones are like, with people or if they're. Or they're like, just not my type and like, way older and like, I don't know, like, I'm not gonna date the 50 year old in the corner. Sorry, guys. But sorry, my age gap year old, 38.

You know what's interesting? Exactly. Okay, good to know. But you know what the interesting thing is? I, like, people really aren't like the, the only good thing about the phones are sometimes I do stupid shit in public. Like I'll, I'll trip or I'll drop something, or I'll, you know, have something going, something weird. And then you look to see if anyone's watching and everyone's on their phones. Whereas back in the day, if you were waiting in line, you did something, people would be looking at you because you had nothing else to do. No one's walking around books all the time. So now no one sees all this. I look over like, nope, no one's paying attention because everyone's on their phone, which is good. Okay. When you're doing something stupid. Okay, you guys, let's talk to Terri. She wants to comment on the toxic subject. Hi, Terr 53 in California. What's going on?

Hi.

Thank you for taking my.

Of course.

I love your show.

Thank you. So glad.

So.

Unfortunately, this was only five, six years ago, but I've grown a lot. I hadn't been in, you know, I'd been divorced and found this guy. I had known him for 10 years, and he was seven. A manipulator. And I had never been manipulated in my life. And I found out at that time what gaslighting was and went to counseling trying to convince her that he wasn't as bad as he was. And we actually. I got him to go to counseling so she could see that he wasn't so bad. And she actually told me after that, she. She said to him, hey, are you, like, here to try to work on this? Are you here to try to better this relationship, or you try to convince me that Terry's crazy? And he never went back because he was trying to convince her that I was crazy. And she saw.

Okay, good. Wow.

And then she gave me a book about gaslighting.

Yes.

And I, I it. And I. The light went on, thankfully, and got out of the relationship.

Thankfully.

Because it. It was bad. It was really bad.

Wow.

Isn't it amazing? Gaslighting, like, you can't. Gaslighting to describe it is. It's somebody who is manipulating you through their. Their words. They're stating things as fact when they're not. Like, Right. They're stating, like, the sky is green. You're like, it's blue. Like, it's absolutely green. You know, and they have all this support, but you don't see it because you're like, first off, very. Terry, you haven't been manipulated. You're like, why would I assume this person is lying? It's a really tricky one, but. Well, I'm glad you found that out, Terry. Yep. Never again.

Right? She said, it'll never happen to you again. And she said he was really good at what he did. So I'm, you know, blessed and thankful. Got out of it when I did. And, you know, it. It was a horrible situation, but got out of it.

So glad you. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Terry. Thanks for calling. See, it happens. Let's talk to Katherine. 40 in Texas. Catherine, you were also in a manipulative relationship. What happened? Tell me.

I was. I was. I was married to him.

Oh, Okay.

I did. I married him. And I, I mean, it was just clock. Just right out of a movie. It really was.

What happened? Some examples, please.

Like, while we were dating, he would comment on my clothing and just be like, why are. You know, you know, you look really beautiful. However, you know, why was the choice in that a little low cut? Who are you trying to impress? You know, things like that. It started clothing and then it moved into. Why were you talking to, you know, that he's a man, you know, you shouldn't. You should only talk to girls. You shouldn't talk to guys and all of that.

Wow. And you married him and this is.

When you were dating and I married him. He was beautiful. I mean, he was this great guy. And, you know, we were very compatible. And I was just like all the red flags and everybody that, you know, everybody saw it and I just, I didn't.

You just couldn't see.

I married him.

Wow.

How long were you with him?

A couple of years. And then I made. I. I live the afterlife. Like, what happens? And the jealousy happens. And then I was like, I remember I was sitting in a corner of our couch and I was reading an email and he came in and he was like, who are you? Who are you talking to? Who are you? You know, like, very jealous.

Right.

I'm like, I'm reading my email and he's like, I can't see it. You know, you. You're talking to somebody. Someone you're. And I was like, no. You know, just things like that.

Right. And you weren't. And he might have been. Yeah. Who knows?

It was frightening. And it just escalated and it ended with. Out of, like, out of a movie. My friends and I had to plan an escape for me.

Wow.

When he was gone for a business trip and we planned an escape.

Wow. And then did you. Did he come after you? Do you ever see him again?

You will not. You won't believe this. He did. As soon as we, as soon as I, I. We started the process and I had gotten my apartment, I got everything taken care of, and it was moving day. He left for the trip. I got. He was getting on the plane or whatever. And I made the mistake of answering, of not answering the phone call. I should have answered it, but I didn't. So he just said that. Because I always picked up my phone. I always answered.

Right.

His calls. Of course I would. Well, I didn't answer his call. So as soon as his plane touched down, he got on a plane to come home because he knew something was up.

Oh, wow.

And I know I got out of the house within 30 minutes of him coming back to the house.

Wow. Wow. That's. Oh, my God. He just knew. Because they know. They're so smart. They're so intuitive. That's the scary part.

He was so smart. And I felt. I mean, I just, by that point, I was so broken as a woman. You know, I'm just so thankful that I had people in my life that were able to help me. And, you know, 10 years later, I'm in such a better place.

I know that it really did happen. These things really do happen.

Yeah, they really, really do, really do exist. Well, I'm curious, can you just give an example? Because manipulative is such a big word. Like, it's such a broad word. Like what? Could you give an example? Was it more about, like, was it about money? Was he not. Was he saying, you can't go out? Or was he just decimating your self esteem every year lower and lower that you couldn't.

It was, it was like the gaslighting thing. It would be like, oh, you know, it's really done very sweetly. But he's like, you know, you probably don't realize that you're doing this, but, you know, you're being very flirtatious with this man and I'm not comfortable with it.

Yeah.

Or, you know, you really shouldn't. You know, he was. And it had to do with our faith. You know, at the time, he was, you know, very religious and he was like, you know, spending time, you know, alone with someone. I'm like, I can't help it. He's my office mate.

Right. Oh, I see that. That's really. Yes, exactly. I just want people to hear this too. Yeah. Catherine, thank you. I'm glad you got to a healthy place and you didn't get hurt by it and, you know, only emotionally, but you've repaired it. Thanks. Yeah, thank you, Katherine. Thanks for your call. I appreciate it. I mean, I think that's the thing. You guys, we're just talking about, has this ever happened to you? Have you. Have you ever felt for someone but you had to justify their behavior because all your friends saw it, all your family saw it, but you didn't see it until it was too late. We're gonna take a quick break and we come back on to your questions.

Ethan in Maryland has a question. 27 years old. Hi, Ethan. What's going on? Thanks for calling.

Hi.

How's it going?

So good. Tell me everything.

So I saw an advertisement for a toy from Is it red octopus?

Oh, hot octopus.

Yes.

And it was kind of. It's not a sleeve, but you slide it over yourself.

Oh, yeah, we know it well. It's amazing. Yep.

So I figured I could just take my girlfriend's magic wand and kind of do the same thing.

Oh. Oh. Did you try it?

Yes, I've been doing it multiple times, and I enjoy the hell out of it.

Wow. So you just have the magic wand, and you kind of rub it on your frenulum or on your ball?

Yeah, just, like, under the head of the shaft.

That makes so much sense. This is why I say vibrations are not just for vulvas and vaginas. They feel great on penises. And a low setting under your frenulum. That's great. Yeah, I've done that with a guy before. That's fun. Why not? Oh, my God, Ethan.

That's so new and so fun.

Right? It's like a different kind of sensation. Did your girlfriend do it with you or did you just steal it?

I was just feeling it out myself.

Okay, awesome, Ethan. But great. That is a great tip.

I was wondering if there's anything I need to. To worry about, like tolerance or sensitivity issues.

Well, I would say to you that I know it's a different kind of sensation, like, there's nothing to worry about. But, like, are you doing it every time you masturbate now? Is it becoming a habit? Are you doing it on the super high setting and just. You know what I mean? But no, you don't have anything to worry about. Women worry this too. I'm like, no. About their vaginas, like, falling off or becoming numb. Like, none of that happens. So it's just your neural pathways in your brain getting used to something.

Awesome.

Now I keep it on the low setting, and I've only done it a couple times.

Okay, good. You can even put something around it, like a sock or something. This might sound silly, but there's so many nerve endings that sometimes putting a piece of fabric in between the magic wand and whatever it's touching can feel great, too. Like, for women they put over their underwear. Yeah, you guys can play with it together. You could lay on top. You could. Well, it couldn't be getting your friend. I'm trying to think of what position they could do where it's hitting her clitoris and his penis.

Like, in between them? Maybe from the side.

In between them? Yeah. There's a lot of power in there. Yeah. Ooh, I want to go do that.

That sounds great.

Oh, my God, Ethan, I love You. Thank you.

Getting me excited.

I know. Me too. Okay, thanks for calling, Ethan. Okay, let's talk to Ashley, 32 in Canada. Hey, Ashley. Thanks for calling.

Hello.

Hi, Ashley. How can I help you?

I love you as a resource. I follow you so closely on Instagram.

Oh, I'm so glad, Ashley. I'm glad to talk to you too.

So I've got a bit of a conundrum.

I'm.

Me and my guy were new. We're, you know, just under three months. My love language. High, high, high. Physical touch. I like a lot of intimacy.

But I'm emotionally a little bit guarded. For example, don't love sharing history of my family. My sister is recently divorced and there's a couple of kids. Don't love going into that detail.

Okay.

He is very opposite in that physical touch is not all that important to him. But he. For him, the emotional getting to know someone precedes the physical. Okay, now, so we're looking for opposite things from one another. And I feel like we're in a bit of this catch 22 and I need the physical. And he's saying, I can't give you the physical with feeling like I don't know you.

Right. Okay, well.

And yeah, hurtful and that. Like, he'll turn away. He'll ask me to stop petting him. No kissing.

Yeah, that's tough, Ashley. So is that what he really wants? He wants to hear about your family and your. Your background? Or does he want to know that you are emotionally in? Because it sounds like maybe you are not really showing him your heart and you're guarded in ways. So it's not even about the facts, but it sounds like there's a part of you that is. Is, you know, afraid to be vulnerable with him, perhaps. And he's saying I can't bring the. The sexual, the touch and stuff if I don't feel connected to you emotionally, Intimately.

Yeah, we've hit on that, too.

Yeah. So I feel like, you know, he just might need, like, to hear. How long have you guys been together?

Not very long. Fewer than three months.

Oh, okay. So like, it sounds like when you. Because when you start to say love languages. Maybe his love language is words. So maybe he doesn't need you to go so, so deep as far as, like, your history. But maybe he wants to know how you feel about him. So maybe the word saying, I really love our time. I love the sex we're having. I'm so attracted to you. He might like it. So. Because as. As a love, like, that's My love languages. So I. I would need to hear words before that. So maybe that's what it is. Do you feel comfortable affirming him in that way?

Yeah. And he, he's not the most secure or confident, I should say, as. So he speaks a lot of that affirmation.

That's why he needs it. That's probably why I need it. No, I mean, you know, it's. It also comes from our. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure. Tell me you love me. Tell me I'm hot. So, yeah, Ashley, that sounds like what he needs to feel safe and comfortable with you. And the touch thing will come, but that's a tough one too, because when touch is in our love languages and it's our partner's love language, we have to like, make an effort to remember to touch. But, you know, if he's willing to do that. And sometimes I feel if you, if you fill up his cup, he'll fill up yours kind of thing.

Yeah. And it's really just a matter of continuing to talk about it and figure out ways that you can compromise and both get your needs met if this is going to go the distance.

Right.

Yeah. Because you were saying initially that you didn't know, like, he wants you to talk about all these other things, like emotional things in your family, but to me, just might need words of appreciation and affirmation, which isn't as hard, I think, right?

No, it's not. Yeah.

Okay.

We'll see how that goes. Ashley, I'm glad you called him here every night. You can try it out. It doesn't work. Call me back. Okay. Let's talk to Robert, 57 in New York. Hey, Robert, thanks for calling.

Hey, how you doing?

Good. What's going on, Robert?

Turning a long story short, a couple years ago I got divorced, bumped into a young lady and we kind of hit it off and we've been seeing each other like daily ever since and been going through a lot of emotional stuff. And that just sprouts a whole two years and that. And I just kind of told her I wanted to back off a little bit because she was, you know, she, she wanted more. More. You know, I, I told her I loved her as a friend and out there and we started out as friends and. And she wants more and I just, it's just not there, you know, And I'm trying to tell her and not, you know, not to lead her on or anything, but. So anyways, go ahead.

No, no. So, okay, so you're trying to. I'm just listening. So why don't you want to be in there? Have you tried to tell her and she's not taking the message?

Yeah, she, she. She says that, you know, the best. I'm the best things that come across and I said now and all this other stuff and, and she'd been through two abusive marriages and that there and, and this and that. And so, you know, I'm pretty kind hearted. I not too toot my own horn or nothing, but it just sounds kind of stupid, don't it?

No, no, you sound lovely, Robert. You just sound like you really are. You're thinking about this woman that you're dating and you want, you don't want to hurt her feelings. Is that what you're saying?

Right. Yeah. It's just so tough. It just.

I don't. I don't know how to. You know, we only went through a couple days of not seeing each other and she's already, you know, thinking that I'm going to run away and, and all that. Which, you know, I guess maybe because it's just I haven't really had any freedom.

Okay.

My kids have told me they're. They're all growed up and anyways, they told me that I needed some time to heal, blah, blah, blah and all that, but, you know, so.

Okay, I don't know.

Wait, Robert, let me get. No, this. Let me just ask you a question, Robert, real quick. So are you saying that you got out of a relationship and this woman, you've been on a few dates with her and you're already sensing that she's kind of like, where, where have you been? Are you going to be texting me? Is this going to be something and you're not looking for any right now, especially with her? Because it seems like she needs a lot more right now. So you just want to be able to have a conversation with her in a loving way and just say, I really can't be, you know, connected with you right now, I'm not in this place, and then just kind of let her go? Is that, Is that what you're asking?

Well, actually, I was married for 35 years and my wife divorced me. And so two years ago. This is two and a half years ago. So two years ago I bumped into this young lady. We've been seeing each other pretty much. I mean, within a month, we're like every day, you know, I mean, she.

For two and a half years.

Every day.

You've been seeing her for two and a half years? Two years. Okay, so you've been seeing her for two years I got it. But, but you. So it's been, and now you're trying to kind of end it completely.

Well, no, I just wanted some time because I, I've been able to breathe.

Just.

Yeah, you know, she's really kind of in, in me, in, you know, been itching, inching into the house and that there kind of, you know, it's like, well, what I wanted. Why don't I just move my suitcase in the house and things like that there. Now she's got her, you know, her pets up to my place so much. Yeah, yeah.

So, Robert, what do you want from this? Yeah, I get, but Robert. So this is what I have to understand. So you, you said she's been creeping in and it's, I don't think that after two years, first of all, you're with your wife for 35 years. She died three years ago. You've been in a relationship ever since, which is super common. We get into things, it's, it's hard to really mourn and grieve when we get into something. And it sounds like you're looking up now and going, wait a minute, this isn't what I'm looking for. But I feel like with her history and what's happening that it's going to have to be a clean break. I don't think that you can go from her practically living with you and saying like, let's make it more casual because that's not what she wants. So are you willing to say goodbye to the relationship or at least take a break and say, you know what, for three months or six months, we can't talk, no contact. I just need space. That's another option is, but when you do a break like that, you have to, oh yeah, you got a divorce. Your wife didn't pass away. I don't know. I said that you got a divorce. But I feel like that's, that's still a mourning and a grieving process. Right. To go from a 35 year relationship into another one is just like a lot. So I think that you're saying you, you just need more time right now.

Correct?

Yeah. So. So Robert, are you okay then? Could you do that with her?

Well, I, I, we, we talked about it on and off throughout the relationship because, you know, she knew that it was just, you know, I cared for and that there and as a friend and whatnot, she goes, well, just tell me you love me as a friend. And so I said, okay, I guess I can do with that. But then now she thinks Because I say I love you, that it's more than just as a friend.

And have you been having sex with her these last two years?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, well, Robert, you know what I mean. She really wants a relationship and she wants to be with you. She thinks you're her guy. And so what do you want, Robert? Would you be okay to not talk to her for six months? Would you be okay to end it completely?

I think so. But she's. She said in the past that, you know, if I end it, that she won't come back.

Okay, well, what do you. Well, it sounds like you need to end it, though. I mean, Robert, I don't know, it's not like a one time, you know, conversation, but I think, you know, you're sounding. No, no, no. You're sounding like you just. She's not gonna listen to you and that's what she wants. It. Maybe you guys want different things right now, I think asking for a break. But then you can't keep going back and forth. You're gonna have to not talk to her for a few months and see how you feel. But she also, if. And if she can't handle that, she can't. You know, she's. She's not your person. But I think kind of sticking up for what you want and then explaining to her why you, why you to need, need the space, why you're not ready for that is totally okay, but just kind of having more words around it, having other conversations and not allowing her to push you into something you don't want. It's really just a matter of that. Of course she says you. And honestly, if you've been sleeping together for two years and you say I love you, she thinks, you know, you love her. But I get that there was a little negotiation and all that, but that's just semantics. So really, I just think you got to get clear on what you really want because maybe someone else will come in, you know, the picture. But right now it sounds like you just need time alone. And I think there's nothing wrong with that. Okay.

Okay.

All right, Robert, thanks for calling. Let me know how it goes. I'll be here for you every night. Thanks to my awesome team. Ken, Kristen, Elisa, Brian, our interns, producer, Jamie and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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