Sex + Life in Your 50s w/ Dr. Wednesday Martin

You guys do not catastrophize about midlife. I am literally, indescribably more happy, feel better about my body, more confident, and just more living in a space of delight in my 50s than ever before.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sexual. I'm coming out with a topic I haven't talked about too much on the podcast, My Age. Well, today, my dear friend, anthropologist and sex expert Dr. Wednesday Martin and I are talking about how the 50s are actually the hottest decade ever and not just because of the hot flashes. Not convinced. Stay tuned. I promise this episode has something for everyone. Please rate and review Sex With Emily wherever you listen to the show most. My new articles, six of the best toys for masturbation and 10 ways to use Lube during Sex are up on shop sex with emily.com. all right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

Welcome to the show again. Dr. Wednesday Martin, so good to have you here.

I could not be more excited to be here with you today because I love our topic and I have a question for you.

Okay.

Do you remember that time I accidentally outed you?

I do remember what you're talking about. It wasn't accidental. It was the first time I had shared some information on the show.

It was not. I was not outing you about your sexuality.

That's true, that's true.

But it was something that people can be just as touchy about.

Yeah, absolutely. I realized that on the episode where Wednesday interviewed me.

Yes.

About my book and my life, which you guys should totally listen to. You can link it in the show notes. But I realized that it was very personal. I revealed a lot and we talked about my age.

Yes.

I don't often listen. You can google me, it says my age. But I often don't talk about age related matters for many reasons. But one of them is, you know, when I started the show, I was like 35 and I would early on was talking about my hookups and all the things I was doing. And then as I grew older, matured, I just sort of became less relevant about me and the show became more about my listeners. But you were able to bring a lot of stuff out of me that I hadn't quite revealed. So I thought today's show would be really fun to talk about sex in your 50s, aging and sex, what happens, what you need to know, and how we can help other people because we're all gonna age.

We're all Aging right now.

Right now, you just aged.

Everybody, as you're listening to this, you are aging and everybody's gonna age. And you know what I love? I just love that you went with it, because there are a lot of taboos around aging. And when you look at the data, you see that, you know, a lot of our preconceptions about aging and sex and vitality and all these things are so actually incorrect. Like, we have a lot of old ideas about people in the 50s, women in their 50s, especially. But what I love about that you just came out with that when I asked you was you were doing something brave. I mean, I remember when I first moved here, I first had a deal in la, and I was talking to an executive and his wife who is a very, like, out there feminist and communicates it. And he said to me, my kids came in and he looked at my kids and he was doing some math, and he said, how old are you? And I was at the time 49. And he looked at me, he said, I'm going to say something to you. I really, really hope you'll listen to me. This is really, really important. And he said, do not ever tell anyone ever, how old you are, ever. If you want a career, any kind of career in entertainment, or if you want your career to flourish basically anywhere, he said, do not have another birthday party. Do not talk about your age. Do not disclose your age. You could get away. People probably think you're 35 and your career will go a lot better if you don't correct that notion. And so the next thing I decided to do was write a book about being in my 50s.

Good for you.

I mean, really, I had gendered ageism. There's ageism, right? There is ageism and then there's gendered ageism. Like, it's. I look at Bryan Cranston's craggy face every day on a huge poster on Sunset. I look at Harrison Ford's craggy, wrinkled face, I'm like, they look hot. We. We do not allow. Women don't know.

And we have to do all the things to keep up. Right? You have, like, Botox and your hair done. All the things that women have to do. And men like, oh, he's older, he's just more attractive. The dad bod, the wrinkles.

Yeah.

There's just. It's kind of sexier when men get salt and pepper. Yeah.

They get, like, gravitas, Right. They're like silverbacks.

I had similar messaging when I moved here at 42 to LA from San Francisco. And people were saying similar things to me. You don't talk about your age. You look so young, which always felt great. Feels good. People are like, oh, you seem so much younger. And so maybe we should just first talk about what are some of the things. Because we're going to debunk all these myths. But one of the things that we do hear, I heard like, oh, in your 50s, life is over. I remember reading all these articles about women who were like, when I became 50, this is when I was younger. But when I became 50, I felt invisible.

Yeah.

I felt that I had no more power. I felt that no one saw me. And I've heard some of those things.

Me too. Okay, let's talk about it.

What else do you think?

Because it's really important, I think, to front load what the negativity is in our culture and in our minds. Right. Okay. Well, if you'll indulge me, there are some data driven facts. There are some clear data that there are things about being a woman in your 50s that are harder. Here's something. How about this? Women in their 50s are more likely to get fired than men in their 50s. Women in their 50s earn less than men in their 50s and less than women in their 20s, 30s and 40s. And if you're a woman in your 50s and you're attempting to re enter the workforce, that will be harder for you than it would be in your 20s, 30s or 40s. That's no good. We don't like that.

No.

We also don't like that as we age, certain some people, including people in the medical profession. There have been studies that show that people in the medical profession tend to be more dismissive of women in general. And what we're describing is going on in our bodies. But as women age, the data show us that we're considered less and less reliable narrators of our own experience in the doctor's office. And so healthcare professionals, especially white ones, the data tell us, tend to harbor bias against women in their 50s and beyond. These are actual, real experiences that women have in their 50s nationwide. Ageism is a very real thing. And discriminating against people for their age is a real thing. And discriminating against women more is a real thing. Maybe, maybe it gets better when you get to that grandmother stage. Right. And you're not people open doors for.

You and give you your seats on the bus. Is that right?

And they're like, oh, she's a grandma.

Yeah.

And we have like a lot, lot of cultural love for grandmas. But we do know that people harbor bias against older Americans and especially older American women. I mean, these are the facts, but you know what I mean. Emily, you and I have talked about this.

We have undergone incredible changes in our 50s. That. For me, I'm just going to say this. In spite of all the data, I feel better, hotter, happier, happy, joyous, and free, sexually satisfied than ever before in my 50s. And the data show that a lot of women are doing that.

I think it's about the people, my friends, the people I surround myself with, my family. My mother, who's 80, she never once have I heard her say, oh, God, I'm older. My back hurts. My. This hurts. She acts as if she. She could be 50 or 40, and she never let age hold her back. It wasn't like. And I feel like it's mindset. I haven't felt that discrimination. And I think I personally don't identify with. Now I'm 50, and I have limitations. So I think it's been a mindset thing that's a big part.

And I'm poor.

It's really important. My mindset has been, like, great. Like, bring it on. In fact, I don't look back to any part of my life and wish. I Wish I was 39 again. I wish I was 25 again. God, no.

I wish I. You couldn't pay me to go back to my twenties. No.

I think. I think that there's so much now that we know we kind of covered what people believe to be true. And now I have to say, I do have some friends who have said to me, oh, but we're old now. Like in our 40s. Like, we're getting old. We're old. We're half like. And I was like, stop. I was literally saying, we are not talking like that. If you are actually have internalized ageism, that's something to look at and say, am I the one who's telling myself I'm older and I shouldn't be doing these things? I find you say, I shouldn't go to that bar or I shouldn't apply for that job.

I shouldn't wear this skirt.

Exactly.

I shouldn't wear this bodysuit.

Very sexy in this bodysuit.

I love that profound idea about mindset. It's really important. And there is something supporting us in that mindset, which is a very simple fact. Remember, we were joking. Everybody's aging. Like, you're experiencing cellular turnover. You're aging right this second. As you're listening, you're aging. Everybody's aging. Everybody's gonna age. But here's another great thing that supports your positive mindset. The entire country is aging. The average age of an American was 30 in the 80s. Most recently, the average age, our average national age is 38. But there's a lot of other stuff going on where lifespan is extending for those of us who are lucky enough to be privileged to take advantage of advanced nutrition, more knowledge about diet and exercise and how they impact us, better cancer treatments for a lot of reasons. And the whole entire American population is aging. In fact, there's going to be a watershed moment in 2030 when older Americans outnumber younger Americans. And it's going to be for the first time in our history. So I just want to say this. When you're feeling a positive mindset about aging and you're like, I'm not that old.

Right.

I always say that the age that most Americans believe is old, when they're polled, they say 57. Right. But because the entire population is aging, 57 is not the old 57. 57 is younger and the fat. Look, Nicole Kidman's not going to stop working. She's in her 50s. Reese Witherspoon, I don't know how old she is, but Angela Bassett, she's not going anywhere. Viola Davis just started kicking ass in her 50s. Right. So all these women coming into their power, Shonda rhimes in their 50s. I mean, this. We're going to see more and more of that because we're not going away. We're living longer. And we're like, listen, I'm not going to live the last 40 years of my life in orthopedic shoes.

Exactly.

And not having sex. No.

Well, we're going to get to the sex part, but I think that 50s are the decade where we're likely to see women press the reset button by asking for divorce. Right. Decade most likely to file divorce is the 50s. Because I think the kids are off to school. They're empty nesters. They realize what else is there, and.

They also realize this is what I want.

They're asking to change a relationship container from monogamous to non monogamous. Acting on desire to be with a woman after years of being heterosexual.

Yeah.

Starting a business.

Yep. And then when they do, they're much more likely to succeed than younger people. Women in their 50s, I guess they're starting businesses, Emily, because of two things. Like, they finally have the self confidence and maybe the resources. But also maybe they're experiencing gendered ageism and getting the boot at their jobs.

We have the knowledge, we have the wisdom. Also, we have the confidence.

Yeah.

Feeling a sense of swagger.

The data proves something that our 50s for women, it's this time of incredible bravery. I mean, we're literally changing the social fabric. We're saying, I want a divorce. We're saying, guess what? I want to be with a woman now. We're saying, guess what? I don't want to be monogamous. We're saying, guess what? I'm starting a business. You know, we're changing the social fabric and I want women in their 50s to get credit for it, for how we are shaking things. Like, this is not a decade of, like, drying up and decline, which, I don't know, we're kind of told that it's not. This is like this, this is daring do. This is like dazzling daring and doing in our 50s.

Exactly.

You're an example of that.

Thank you. So are you, Wednesday. Stay tuned because after a quick break for our sponsors, Dr. Wednesday, Martin and I are talking more about how life is hotter in our 50s and also sharing some of menopause and perimenopause experiences. All right, everyone, be right back.

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I do think this thing that you said about women having more swagger and confidence in their 50s is completely right. And that's what my book Free Agent is about. And in Free Agent, I really say that I don't think there's anything tougher or more revolutionary than a woman in her 50s. You know, she's been on the wrong side of power probably for decades. She has a lot of experience, and she's entering a big transformation. Hey, I can't get pregnant from sex anymore. Hey, if I have kids, maybe they're gone. Hey, if I'm a lesbian, maybe I'm feeling more confidence than ever before. Hey, maybe money's not such a problem. Problem. Right now, we're just entering this transformation, and we're having fewer fox to give your fox. So. I love women. I do, too.

We can follow our intuition more, which is something that I've always been told to do, but it was a little bit harder to do. Having confidence, knowing that we can move through different experiences. Like when things used to get me down, like, oh, I've. This thing didn't work out, or this project didn't go through, or something happened with a friend, it used to feel like, oh, God, what do I do? Like, every time a problem happened, I. I used to feel like I have to solve it differently, but now I have the confidence of years of saying, this always works out. I've been down this road before. I know what I bring to the table. I know that I'm a good person, that I'm confident, that I'm smart enough, and I don't let things. Things don't get me down anymore as much. And I think that's part of wisdom, too.

It is part of wisdom. And, you know, I think a component part of wisdom is excellence, and a component part of excellence is wisdom. Like, you have been working at your craft, honing your knowledge, keeping up to date, communicating for decades now, and you're just getting better and better and better at it, and that leads to swagger. I mean, part of it is just like, we're getting better and better at stuff, and so we're more confident.

We're so more confident with the experience. But I also feel sexier. I feel hot. I feel just confident sexually. Like, I know what I'm doing. I feel when I walk into a room, I just. I really don't feel what I think we're told we should feel in our 50s, that's like one of the best times in my life.

This is the best decade of my life so far. I'm 57. I finally have come to understand that I am the main character in my own story, you know, because before, it was always about my kids. It was about my friends who needed help. It was about my husband. It was about helping my husband's career. It was about helping my kids with. It was helping my girlfriends who were going through divorces or infertility. There's something about your 50s that's so wonderful when your kids have fledged, if you have them. I didn't have a big commercial success until I was 49 years old. So that piece finally fell into place. I stopped drinking and really leaned into my sobriety in my 50s. And that was life altering. And a lot of women are doing the same thing just because. And men too, because we can't metabolize alcohol as well in our 50s. You and I have taken steps.

And also the other thing about your 50s is by the time you get there, a lot of the difficult choices have been made. You've made those choices and you've already, like, decided to have kids or not have kids, you know, your career, you know, what you're good at. It's like this huge weight is lifted also.

So much tumult is gone.

You're like, I don't need to decide that. I don't need to prove myself. I don't need to do all these things.

I made that decision so liberating.

But I do think that some of the things that we go through. For example, here's the amazing thing to everyone listening, and I don't care if you have a vulva or a penis, because this affects everybody.

Yeah.

Is that this perimenopause thing every single person with a vulva is going to go through can last up to 12 years. And it's a legitimate medical condition that we do not have a lot of information on.

We do not have enough starting to talk about it.

We are just starting to talk about menopause and perimenopause in the last year and a half or so.

It's really expensive, exploded.

And just to define it really quickly, perimenopause is that period that surrounds the final years of a woman's reproductive life. It begins with the first onset of menstrual irregularity. Ends after one year of menorrhea has occurred. So that's your final menstrual period. So there's basically two stages to the Perimenopause or menopause transition, the early transition, where cycles are mostly regular with relatively few interruptions. And then the late transition, where amenorrhea becomes more prolonged, lasts for at least 60 days up to the final period. So what you need to know is this. The perimenopause is the part that can last up to 12 years. Menopause is one day. Menopause is the day where years gone by and you have not had your.

Period and then you're in menopause. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Look, now we're saying the word especially. I love that it's happening on social media for saying perimenopause. I don't care if it makes men I know throw up.

Is it like not men? I guess I don't want to know those men.

I don't want to hang out with those men. So guys who are listening now, you heard the definition of perimenopause, and it's a cool thing you can know. You can support your partner or your sister or your mom. You know, it's really part of your vocabulary as a person with relational skills is to know about perimenopause and menopause and sort of disabuse yourself all the stereotypes and. Yeah, just be able to know if someone that you care about is going through a hot flash.

Exactly.

To be there to support them. Bring them some ice, remind them not to eat spicy food.

Exactly.

If somebody's having terrible pms. Right. We know to be supportive of our girlfriends and the people that we love who are going through terrible pms. Hormonal transition can be messy and difficult. And just to know that it's a transition, that it's a real thing.

It's a real thing.

Your girlfriend or friend or sister, whoever, that person, she's not losing her mind. She's not difficult. She has a medical condition that she's going through. It's normal. It happens. It's supposed to happen. And there are ways to be supportive, ways she can support herself in ways you can support her.

Exactly.

Right.

Yes.

Let's just stop acting like it's such a dirty word.

We'd all be so much better off if we understood it. So some of the signs of it, too. You mentioned, like, it's like hot flashes and night sweats. Little bit harder remembering things or concentration. You can have, you know, some onset of depression. What is it? Changes in sexual desire.

Yes.

You might feel a little drier.

Your sleep might. Sleep is disrupted and you know what I just wanted to say really quickly, There's a resource that I love about menopause.

Okay, tell me.

I love it. It's called the Menopause Manifesto by Jen Gunter. And it is evidence based advice for surviving the transition in style and to thrive through the transition. But it is also like a lot of cool science and you know how I geek out. So we're not going to really get into a lot of the science today, but in case people want to, the Menopause Manifesto is fantastic by Dr. Jen Gonchar. Can we personalize this? Let's do it.

Because let's talk about what we've been going through.

Yeah. What have you been going through?

Wait, I wanted to actually. Well, while we're on perimenopause, because I know you just shared with me when we were talking about this that you said it was hell for you. Like you didn't have information at the time you were in New York, access to the best doctors. I want to frame this for people that it's literally. And I'm going to get into mine because I living in la, who knows? I had access about five years ago, but it was still hush hush. It was still no one was really doing. I had to go out and find my own doctors. But yet your experience was very different because it wasn't really known. The doctors didn't know what was going on.

Oh, Lord. I mean, I think for sure my OB GYN knew the term perimenopause, but it's almost like when I was going through this, starting really at age 36 or 37, first of all, I always had terrible PMS, which is one thing I want to say. My whole life I didn't have cramps and bloating, but I had mood swings and I did have a little bit of bloating and it was really difficult. Right now at a certain point, they do say that bad PMS might be predictive of a more difficult menopausal transition, including through perimenopause. I believe mine started at about 37. But nobody wanted to say it to you. It's like if you have a baby, nobody wants to tell you that the baby has colic. Right. Because you'll flip out when the baby's crying, right?

Yeah.

Why is the baby crying all the time? Oh, the baby's just adjusting. People almost in the medical community at that time didn't want to use the P word with me. So I didn't know what was going on. I had to read about it. You know, I have a background writing about women and sex and gender. And so I did know the term, but not in a way that would be truly helpful for me. And I tried everything, and my really bad PMS just segued into a pretty difficult perimenopause. Absolutely. And that lasted. I'm not gonna lie. It lasted for a long time. Here's when I decided I have to do something about this. There's a time when your PMS is maybe a few days, right? And you're bloated, you're crabby. Whatever your. Your PMS symptoms are, you're having them, you're having cramps, whatever, for maybe three days before you peel. Then later in your life, it might go to a week before your period. During my perimenopausal phase, I had those PMSE symptoms from the moment my cycle ended to the moment it began again. I had the bloating, the mood swings, the emotional teariness. I had discomfort. I had two wardrobes.

Eventually, I was like, when do I.

Get my body back? Because I realized it used to be I would get my period, and then I would get my body back and it would be fine. Then it just got to the point where I was always wearing my period clothes. I was always bloated. I didn't want anything that hurt me. I needed to be comfortable all the time. That is when I went to my OB GYN and said, this perimenopause thing is killing me. And we got serious about trying to do something about one. But when I tell you I changed my diet, I changed this, I changed that, I changed the other thing. But finally, thank the goddess, I eventually, after a lot of research and figuring out what was good for me, giving my. Given my family history and what I was experiencing and what my doctor recommended, I finally got on hormone replacement. I got on hormone therapy, I guess people call it now. Yeah. And it was like, whoa.

Oh, my God. Life went from being in a minor key to back in a major key.

That's amazing.

I needed to treat this medical condition that I had.

And what's happening is we are losing our hormones. We're losing progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone. And I want to hear how it changed for you. Actually, when you started taking these right away, what did you notice right away?

Well, it wasn't like I did that, like, opera voice, because I can be dramatic sometimes, but it was a big improvement. Here were what some of my symptoms were. My libido never went away. I mean, if you have sex with a partner, like, do the things that make you feel good, even when you're feeling really bad, and they can lift you up. We know that when people are like, oh, I'm not in the mood for sex, and then they have sex, we know that it actually does enhance their mood. A lot of times, people will report it's like going to the gym, right? I didn't want to do it, but I did it, and I felt great. So that was one thing that really helped me.

I always say sex begets sex. That's what we're talking about. You might not always be in the mood for sex, but once you get yourself, there you go doing it. You're going to be so glad that you did.

And midlife sex really begets sex a lot. So that was a big, important thing for me during perimenopause. The other really important thing, as you mentioned, was, you know, I was experiencing hormonal fluctuation and change. I don't like to say hormonal decline, but some people use that term change. I got together with my doctor. I'm not going to lie, you guys. I was a little bit like a science experiment. And I would say, why don't you guys know more about this? Why aren't you prioritizing women's health? And my doctor, who's a feminists, like me, said, because we don't prioritize women Wednesday. So I was like, okay, you're right, you're right. This is a feminist issue. But he and I finally found a protocol, a hormone replacement protocol that really worked for me. And he helped me cut through a lot of the lies and the bullshit that I was seeing on Instagram that people said, this will help do this, do that. And I really think that one of the reasons I thrived was that I was talking to an OB GYN with experience in this area who knew to prioritize my sex life. He knew he had a very sexual patient, and he also knew to talk to me rather than to talk down at me. And those things worked. And yes, there were some rocky roads trying to get the hormones right, but once we did, I slept better, right? I did not have hot flashes, and I really just was enjoying life more in general.

Thank you for sharing all of that, because I think it's so important first to point out that it is a journey. We all have bio individuality, meaning, I hesitate to say, like, what I did, specifically what you did, although I will talk about it, because you have to go get tested on your own, because we are all so different. About what's going to work for us. Like certain things have worked for me but didn't work for my friends.

Yes. I mean, let's face it, there are 21 million women going through menopause in the United States right now. And their situations are going to be a little different. But what we know overall is that their hormones are changing and that for many of them, hormone replacement might be helpful, but you need a doctor for it. Get it treated. Because we have so much going on, because we're not talking about menopause and because women aren't able to deal with it with the support of a doctor. There was a big New York Times study on menopause and productivity. Oh my God, listen to this.

I love this.

Menopause costs American women an estimated 1.8 billion in lost working time per year. The source for that is a Mayo Clinic write up of a study I just wrote next to that. Holy shit, that's amazing. But $1.8 billion lost and we're just not supporting these women. Did you know that there are some countries where women can take a menopause sabbatical?

That would be amazing. I mean, couldn't we get some days off? Like, couldn't we like it just if we're actually going through all of these changes and this one point billion losses because they're taking sick days and they're cutting back on hours, but we have to hide it. Talk about shame. Talk about shame and sex and feeling like we can't talk about it. I can't come in today because I'm having like a hot flash or whatever. You know, it's like we can't talk about it. But I love that there are studies like this are out there and I love that we've shown that it actually is recommended now for women over 45 to consider or hormone replacement therapy. We just have to find the right doctors in your area to be able to help you keep pushing for answers. And so for me, I think it was about five years ago that I started feeling like I had night sweats. And I just started. This is my field. So I started hearing more about it. It actually was Dr. Drew Pinsky, because I was in Loveline with him. And he told me that his wife went through menopause perimenopause early, like in her 30s. And so he found that when she did these hormone placements and this was like in 2014, he told me this, she did these hormone pellets. You could like set it and forget it. And he said that was A changer. She got her sex drive back, and everything was great. So I first heard about it then. And then when I started going through it, I thought, well, I want to go find out about hormones and therapy and these pellets. And so I. I called out to several doctors, and I spent a lot of money going on my own because insurance didn't cover this. And they just weren't the right fits. They had different competing beliefs around hormones. And I finally found one doctor. And the thing that I did was I did the pellets. I tried the pellets. Pellets are a little bit more controversial just in that. Let me explain this to you. So the hormones that we're talking about that it's important for women to take is progesterone, estrogen, and some testosterone. So these palates, why they're great for me is because you take those drugs by putting on creams and lotions. Like, before I got the pellets, for example, there would be nights where I have to, like, shoot this thing in my vagina. Then I got to rub on the testosterone cream, and you got to take a pill for progesterone. And it's like, I don't even remember to wash my face that night because I'm exhausted. Then I got to do these three steps. And I know. Tell myself, yes, that the steps are not great for me. Repetitive steps, no matter how many reminders.

Right.

It's not how I move through life.

So I'm learning.

There's a pallet that I can put. It's like a little. It's like the size of a rice pellet.

Okay.

And you put it in your back. Doesn't hurt at all. I go to my gynecologist. I had to find one who did it. She's not many that do this. And then every three months, I go back and I get the right amount of hormones for me. Now the challenge is they say, well, what if you need more or less? You can't really alter it. So she started very low with me, and then we went up. And for me, that's worked because in the past again. And then I tried to stay stopped for a while and then went back to the lotions and the potions. And again, I wasn't just keeping.

Okay, Can I tell you, I said to my OB gyn, do better. I said, you guys need to do better. For us, I'm putting vaginal estrogen in, which I love, which has been game changing and life changing for me. But hey, how about we think that women in their 50s are sexual, and so maybe we don't want this cream coming out of our vaginas because maybe we enjoy, you know, someone performing oral sex on us. Maybe we enjoy intercourse. Talk to your doctors about this and insist that you want to be sexual and sexy going on in your life. And I was saying that I sometimes complain to my doctor and I ride him, and I say, you need to do better for us. And one of the reasons is you put in the vaginal estrogen, and it's like, well, I'm doing this because I want to have sex. And yet here it is, a really potential inconvenience and potential embarrassment during sex. Right, you guys, that's not good enough. Women in their 50s want to have sex. Oh, and other forms of stimulation might come into play in midlife, too. Right? I didn't get a vibrator until I was 53.

Yeah. Oh, best day of your life.

I was reborn. I was off to the races. But it's a really good thing that I had it, because as my hormones shifted and my life changed, I needed different food forms of stimulation. If anybody ever said to me, you don't need that. You don't need your vibrator, you know.

You'Re still saying that, you know, by the way. Yes, exactly. You'd be out. I mean, that's the thing, is that we're cha. Is that you'd be like, no, this is not. Not my person. But here's the thing. Here's. Let's talk about, like, what happens with sex. You know, midlife sex.

Yeah. Let's be real.

Like, you. So the real thing is, yeah, there are. There might be some changes with your vagina. You want to have lube, but you know how I feel. I've been using lube for a very long time. We've recommended lube to people in their 20s and 30s, and people love lube. But definitely in your 50s, 60s, beyond, just have some lube on your nightstand. Just definitely use lube. That's going to help with a lot of the problems. But the other things that could change is. And this happens decade to decade. And I'd love to do another show where we actually talk about what happens in your 30s, 40s, 50s, because also after childbirth, things change. You're different in your 20s. And this goes for men too, by the way. But.

My body, the way I get turned on, the things that turn me on are different than my 40s. They were different in my 30s. So now by 50s, I have to realize that, like, it's certain positions don't feel as great. And also, yeah, orgasms are just different. They're just a little bit different, but they're still attainable. And in fact, I think I like them more because I have a little bit more knowledge. I think of how to do them and I know how to move and I know how to explain it. And towards toys definitely are a game changer for, I think, any stage of life. But toys and lube. I definitely felt my desire change. But I have to say something else, that I've never been anybody who had strong sexual desire. So I don't know if I've ever even said it on the show. But like, I remember when I was live friends, like, I'm so horny. I can't wait to make out with this guy or this girl. I'm so horny. I was always somebody who, like, loved sex, and I never got tired of having sex when I was with a partner. But I'm definitely responsive, responsive desire. So I don't think, like, I need it. I want. I have to consciously do that. So I've consciously made it like I'm with somebody. It's important to have sex, and like, I want to make it part of our life. I need to figure out the ways that I can hack it. So for me, my hormone replacement therapy didn't necessarily make me want to have sex more. It's not that I don't want sex, but I never had that. I think that many people like this. I just never had it.

This is such a great point. I want us to do a study or I want to read a study. If anybody who is a Kinsey fellow is listening, maybe they can help us with this. I want to see a study on whether we get better at cultivating our responsive desire as we age and whether it's a really good thing to do. Because here's something that I hear. On the one hand, a Lumen survey found something great. Did you know a quarter of people that they interviewed who were in their 50s said that their sex lives were better, more interesting and more adventurous than ever before? So there's that, right? But then there's also. I hear people, men and women, say to me that they have less desire. And I think that to your point, they might mean that their spontaneous desire is lower, but that's just that part of desire. So let's cultivate that responsive desire because you. Here's the deal, you guys, just to explain this. Spontaneous desire is when you. I know Emily's explained it to you. Before, but we can always use reviews. Spontaneous desire is just spontaneous desire. Oh, I just want to have sex. I feel horny. I want to have sex.

There's my partner. I'm so attracted to my kid, I want to rip their clothes off.

Yeah. Now, responsive desire is more. Once you're doing it, you're really into it. This is all with consent and everything, you guys.

Or once something happens or once your partner says something touches you in a certain way.

Yeah. You could even look at something and say, oh, I remember when we had sex on that blanket. Right. Or for me, it's literally responsive desires. Maybe I need to watch some horn because I know how enjoyable it's going to be. It's not like it's coming at me like a lightning bolt. Right. But once I get into it, knowing that it's going to be rewarding. So I think cultivating your responsive desire in midlife could be a great strategy for men, for women, for everybody. Because I don't know about you. Don't you hear from people who say, like, I just don't want it anymore?

Yeah. That is the key is that I think that. That we think we don't want anymore, so we must not want it. So we're talking about cultivating it. I hear a lot of women say it's like, I would be fine if I never had sex again. Have you any friends who've said that? In their 40s, 50s? Like, yes, if I never. And I'm just saying it's because we are equating our desire to how men typically get around and to only spontaneous and just spontaneous. And it's more responsive. It's more like, I got to get in the mindset. And that's what my whole book Smart Sex was about is the five pillars of sexual intelligence is knowing your self knowledge. Like, when are you turned on? What's going to get you there? What has previously worked for you in the past? How is your body changing? How is your health? You know, the second pillar? Have you looked at your hormones, your wellness? There's all these things that we need to look at to understand when we're gonna be aroused and turned on. So I think that just to throw in the towel and say, oh, I.

No longer have spontaneous desire.

I feel like. And I'm saying I was never somebody who had a lot of the spontaneous desire, except for early on in a.

Relationship or see something.

Yeah, I have to be touched, though. You massage me. You touch me like, I'm in, but I'm not just walking around Thinking about.

It like, oh my gosh, I have to have sex. And you know what? And this is one of the big myths, and I get it, and untrue. And I love that you get into this in smarter sex too. One of the biggest myths we have is that women's libidos are, quote, weaker, unquote, or lower than men's. And it's. That's just because we were measuring desire incorrectly. We weren't measuring both spontaneous and responsive desire. So that's just a little aside, but something for people to know. And you know what? You know what I love about women and pleasure in our 50s? Can I tell you what I love? Yes. Okay. You know how you've been told, like, oh, yeah, you get to your. You get older and you have fewer fucks to give as a woman. Right. Okay. Well, I found this clinical psychologist who specializes in working with women in midlife. And she basically says women in midlife are like revolutionaries. And this could apply to sex too, because she says women in midlife decide that they are going to stop living in this acquiescent place of yes to other people. Yes, I'll do it for the social contract. Yes, I'll do it for my husband's happiness. Yes, I'll do it for my girlfriend's happiness. Yes, I'll do it for the sake of my children. Women stop living in this acquiescent place of yes. And it allows us, when we're encouraged and given the space to do so, to be more selfish about our pleasure and to have the time and the bandwidth and the energy for it, because we're not saying yes to everybody and everything anymore.

I think that what you're saying is so many times we're thinking about our family, our jobs, our kids. We're pleasers, we're providers, we're nurturing. There's so much responsibility. And something happens when you get into your 50s where you're just like, this is the time, if not now, when? Like, this is the time where I'm going to prioritize my own needs, my own pleasure, my own desires, and not care what anyone else thinks, not care.

What anybody else thinks. And like, have that selfish moment because I did it all for my kids, I did it all for my husband or my wife. I'm not sweating so much about money anymore. I'm not worrying who will I be when I grow up. I am a grown up. I'm not thinking I'm a bad person if I'm not giving free psychotherapy to everybody. You're like, oh, hold up. This is the time. You know what I read? Retirees have a lot more sex than people think they do because they're home and they have the time.

Yeah, we're having sex exactly right.

They are.

What else are they gonna do? Right? No, but also it's true. It's the other notions that we stop at our 50s or you stop becoming sexual. There's a lot of studies that show that people having sex until their 70s, 80s, 90s, you still have that desire.

I just saw a headline a few days ago when I was finishing up my book proposal that there are studies that show that a considerable number of women want more sex in their 50s than they wanted it before. And I think that too. Can I tell you one of the things that went into it for me? I couldn't get pregnant anymore. The amount of time in my life that I spent, from my worry, late teens to my mid-40s because I was pregnant for the last time at 43, the amount of time, the bandwidth that took up in my brain that I was afraid to get pregnant, and the pleasure that drained from my sexual experiences, I couldn't even quantify until I got on the other side of it. I couldn't get pregnant. Sex became purely recreational.

Didn't have to worry about it anymore. What a relief to let that go.

This was a personal revelation. It changed everything. So I think that's one of the reasons too. Plus my kids were out of the house, plus we opened up our marriage. Sex just.

You had all the things working for you. I feel like you did it right.

But so do a lot of women.

Not that it wasn't that they do.

Even if they don't open their marriages, even if they didn't have kids, they're just at a better place in their 50s. And it's time for women to understand this. I want women in their twenties to understand all the things that get better in your 50s.

It really does.

And young men too.

I also want to emphasize, though, that also that sex in our 50s too, it just might take a different kind of work. I'm always talking about helping people in different stages of life. And I think it's worked, to be honest, in every stage of life. I get just as many questions from people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. I just think that there's less information about this and that's why we're talking about this right now. You know, I think it's just really important to know that it doesn't mean that it's over again. Because you don't have the responsive desire, because you might feel drier, because there might be some pain, because you don't feel great in your body. There's a lot of different reasons, but it doesn't mean that once you get going and we help you put all these pieces in place, that you won't want sex again and it won't actually be better. I love that you cited the study that showed that women are having more adventurous, exciting, satisfying sex in their 50s. That's the data.

I think they just finally feel like they deserve it. I know I did. And I think finally felt like I deserved.

Yeah.

So that's a big part of how to get it. Hello. I've been masturbating since I was 12 and I'm 57.

Well, right. We're also a lot of our own body. We've been masturbating for 40 years. Literally. You are an expert in your own body. And if you haven't masturbated yet, like, this is the time to start. Oh, my God.

How amazing would it be for a woman to start masturbating in her 50s? I think many do never.

Yeah, like, welcome to the pleasure palace pleasure revolution.

That is midlife. It is. You guys, do not catastrophize about midlife. I am literally, indescribably more happy, feel better about my body, more confident, and just more living in a space of delight in my 50s than ever before. I am done with the struggles. I'm done with figuring out what I'm going to be when I grow up. I'm done being in my 20s or my 30s in tears, trying to figure out what to wear. I put on anything. Now I look at myself. Killed it. It's different. Life is better. We have more resources in the aggregate. We have more social support in the aggregate. We have more professional networks in the aggregate. We have more free time in the aggregate. It's just. Gosh, it gets catastrophized.

What an inspiration. Please don't. Catastrophe. So we got you. We're also going to add some resources for some tips, some books, some great resources for perimenopause, menopause and all that because we wanted to share our own personal experiences.

But.

And also, if you want to hear more about this stuff, we can definitely do more shows, bring in more experts, which we will be doing.

And don't forget to follow A Black Girl's Guide to Menopause, which is awesome.

Okay.

And Dr. Jen Gunter, if you're interested in this stuff, no matter what your Gender identity. And no matter how old you are, this is really interesting. Geek out on it. Science and a way to be a really good friend to anybody who's going through these transitions.

Stick around because after a quick break, Wednesday and I are sharing our best advice for those of you in your 20s, 30s, and 40s.

Hey, Emily. Advice from us gangstresses of pleasure and self love for women in their 20s who might not be feeling it.

Well, I think the first thing is therapy. Start early with therapy. I think it's really important to find a therapist to start working on stuff that happened in your childhood, start to understand your narrative, to hear a relationship with your parents, because it's going to stay with you for the rest of your life. So for me starting therapy in my 20s, seeing a therapist regularly was a game changer. So I'd highly recommend do the work now. The sooner do the work, the more evolved you're gonna be. It's gonna help you. I know you think you can't afford it, it's too expensive, you don't have time. But there's a lot of different resources right now where you can find the time. It's really. Your mental health is probably one of the most important things. I mean, so is your physical health, but mental health is. If you don't have that, it's so much harder to deal in life, to have healthy relationships. It's going to help you in everything that you do.

Amen to that. I mean, if you can afford dry cleaning and going out for drinks, you can probably afford a sliding scale free therapy session. And I love that advice. Here's what I would suggest. Get a vibrator now. I mean, it changed my life. I waited until I was 53 as you know, get a vibrator now. Play with sex toys now. Don't let anybody shut down your curiosity about your body and don't let yourself shut down your curiosity about your body. You guys, I want to tell you something. You're in your 20s, your body is absolutely beautiful. You are just right. You do not need to do anything about any part of yourself, okay? And when you get to midlife and you feel like the babe you are, you're gonna look back and say, damn, I wish I felt this way in my 20s. You guys, I didn't wear a bikini in my 20s. What on earth was I thinking? I'm wearing one for sure now at 57, you guys, wear the bikini, eat the ice cream cone, have the orgasms, go on the dates, take the risks, apply for the job, even though you're only 50% qualified. That's what guys do.

Yeah, all the time. Those are all great things. It's true. And learn. I love all of that. It's true. Like, take. It's so hard though, because my mom used to say to me, she'd say to me, do you see these spots on my arm when I would be laying in the sun? These spots. You're going to have these spots one day. Like, put the sunblock on. And I was like, oh, God, but.

I need to be tan for prom.

I remember, mom, it gets so hard to take parents advice when they're telling you this because it's like, but nothing matters more now than being tan for prom, mom. So I'm not working sunblock. And I think the sex part is really big. Like if I had masturbated in my 20s, more, if I had really realized who I was as sexual being, what my fantasies were, a lot of the stuff that I teach all of you. I want to make this point that just because we're saying in our 50s, we're more confident, it's better in our 40s. I truly believe that you can have a lot of this in your 20s and your 30s and your 40s. Just work on the shame, work on the pleasure thieves, the things that are keeping you from, like what is coming up for you, what is your shadow self that's telling you that you're not good enough or you don't deserve it. Work on all that stuff in therapy. When I say that the most attractive thing in the bedroom is somebody with confidence, I don't mean that you know how to give a great blowjob or go down on someone really well or you know all the moves. It literally means that you understand your own body, you understand pleasure, you understand that you have to get your needs met during a sexual situation or it's not going to be satisfying. I mean, think of it this way. You go to a restaurant and you sit down with your partner on a date in your twenties and let's say their food gets delivered, they get their appetizers. If they get dinner, they get their drink. And then you leave and you got nothing. The waiter bought you nothing. Oh, that's literally what sex is like in your 20s. At least I felt. And you deserve to eat full plate desserts, appetizers, everything in your 20s. And you, it's totally available for you. And the confidence is knowing that, experiencing your own body, being able to advocate and ask for that. That is what my sex was for me until my 30s was not having anything to eat, not having my pleasure. It's never too late, and you can start now. And if you're listening to this show right now, or if you know someone in your 20s, 30s, pass this along, because I think it's a really important knowledge.

And, you know, I just saw a big overview point to that of what you're saying, because that is so profound and so important, you guys. I wish I had known this in my twenties. I am not a conduit for other people's pleasure. I am not here to provide visual pleasure to strangers on the street that I don't know. I am not here to give sexual pleasure to another person in bed just by contorting my body in certain ways and giving them what I think they want. I am not a lingerie model, although sometimes I like to wear it. I am entitled to pleasure myself, as you said. I want to say one other thing, you guys. Nobody's looking at your acne. Literally nobody is looking at it.

No.

Guess what? Here's what I Learned in my 50s. Life is a wedding, and I am not the bride. Did you ever get dressed for a wedding and feel that wash of relief? The eyes are not going to be on me. They're going to be on the bride. I am free to let my freak flag fly. And that is what I heard you saying about pleasure. You're entitled to it. Ask for it. Do it. You are not a conduit for other people's pleasure. And you guys, I all eyes. You are gorgeous. You are beautiful, but all eyes are not on you. People are not judging you.

They're obsessed with themselves.

They're at the wedding and they're looking at the bride, and you're not the bride. And that is the greatest freedom in the world until you are the bride. And then I hope you elope. Because planning weddings is really hard. And I feel for you, whatever your decision is.

Exactly.

God, weddings are hard.

Okay? That's why. Another reason I didn't want to get married. So here's the thing. I think it's really important to learn to be alone. And it's very important to spend time in your life without a partner. It is crucial. I see a lot of people now who were married for a long time, then they go to another relationship, another relationship. And I think it's so important to learn to like your own company, to be by yourself, to practice it. And I don't know where this came from, but I'm glad that I had this inspiration when I was about 32. I realized I've been in a relationship since I was 16. I would date someone for a few months, and I'd break up and date someone else. And I was like, who the hell is Emily Morse? Without a man in my life, without a partner, I have no idea. I called it a manatorium, and I took a manatorium and I said, I'm not dating. I'm not thinking about men. I'm not doing anything. Because I think about this pressure, because there is a societal pressure that if you are not with a partner, you should always be looking towards finding a partner. If you're not with them, that it's not okay. To be single is a stopover to partnership, and it's not a place to live right. And I realized I loved living single.

Loved it. You were the bachelorette of bachelorettes and goals, just goals. If you guys had seen Emily out on the town, if you had seen her at parties, if you had seen her being her best friend, bachelorette, self, that was a beautiful thing. And I will say something else. One of the things I love about my 50s, other than cultivating my solitude, on the other hand of it, prioritizing my friendships and cultivating friendships has been a great thing, because when I'm in solitude, I mean, I didn't prioritize my friends in my 20s and 30s and 40s, they were just there. I was busy. My friends were there. I tend to my friendships now. Like, that is a garden that is going to feed me. And then when I'm solitary, I know I have my friends. When I have my friends, I know I love my solitude. All that therapy, to your point, helps get us there, right?

It's true. We talk a lot about that. I love that about friendship. You are such a wonderful friend, too. I have to say that we talk a lot about the importance of friendship. And I would say on that is that, you know, again, choosing not to have a family and other things like that. I've always been someone who prioritized friendships and made them a priority because that was my thing. But what I want to say about picking your friends is this. Try to avoid the people if you can. First off, if you meet somebody and they don't make you feel good, you go out with them a few times, you're like, something's off here and what's going on? I don't know if I feel so great and safe with them. Trust that those are probably not your people. Stay away from the drama. Stay away from the people who talk about other people behind Their back. I've always avoided friends like that because it's toxic and those people attract other people like that. And so it's not that I don't Wednesday I might be like, what did you think about so and so. But if we do, I think that even I.

We come.

I don't think we've ever really talked about anyone. And if we ever did, it was like, from place of, like, love, like, well, maybe they should work on this if we ever do. But it's not my go to. And I think that people who do spend a lot of time criticizing others aren't feeling great about themselves and it's.

Such a shallow life.

So I. Eventually they turn on you. If they are talking about other people primarily, I guarantee when you leave them, they are talking about you. Oh, I think that is just a. And I've had the same of the friendships for 40 years. I can say dear friends. I just know, like, we don't. And that's something that I've cultivated. It's important. So you. You know, if someone's not a good friend and just because you've known them since you were 15 doesn't mean they have to stay in your life.

Yes, that is such a good point that you have to have a high standard for friendships. You really do. And for intimate partners. And, you know, it's interesting. I do think, building on that, Emily, I wish that in my 20s I had started to say anyone who feels like a frenemy, anyone who makes a cutting remark or, you know, is like, consistently sort of trying to bring me down a little bit, that I feel that way. Anybody that I would categorize as a frenemy, let me just empty that space out and open it up for somebody who has really good relational skills and can be a really good friend. I wish I had done that.

Well, see, this is good. We're helping people. And then the final thing I want to say is that it's never too late.

Never too late.

You didn't miss the window. Your time isn't passed. Life is not over. You didn't miss the boat. I mean, I just want to say that I feel like I thought that lot of my twenties too. I always thought I've always been very driven and very ambitious. And so I always felt that I wasn't there enough. I didn't do enough. I wasn't. And I look back, I'm like, you were doing a lot and you were just fine. And so everyone. You are fine where you're at. It's never too late. Just be wherever you are now. Put everything into it. Put your attention into where you're at now and don't be worried so much. I know this is easier said than done, that you're like, it's too late or I can't do this. I think we have to look at our limiting beliefs and our limiting thoughts because that's really what's holding you back more than anything else.

And ask women in midlife. That's the only thing I can add to that, whether you're a man or a woman, 20s, 30s, 40s, ask women in midlife. We have a lot of experience and we're not insecure anymore. Eventually you're going to come to a place where you're not either, and you're going to have this personal revolution.

Love it. Thank you so much, Dr. Wendsey Martin. You are brilliant and beautiful and I just love your insights and I love that you're being here sharing all this wisdom. And I love that you've been a friend to me where we've been able to talk about a lot of things. We have these conversations, conversations. And so I thought let's just bring them on the mic. Let's talk to the people.

Talk to the people about. Thanks for having me on. Dr. Emily Morris. You know you're my hero and we get to go for a walk now. I'm excited.

I love it. Thanks for being here.

That's it for today's episode. See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to, like, subscribe and give us a review Wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Sex with Emily. Oh, I've been told I give really good email, so sign up at sex with emily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline 559Talk Sex Put that's 559-825-5739 or go to sexwithemily.com askemily Special thanks to Acast for powering the Sex with Emily podcast. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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