Sex, Love & Robots with David Duncan

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What they're advertising harmony as it's not a sex bot, they're calling it a companionship bot. And in their advertising they talk about be the first to never be lonely again.

Exactly. Never be lonely again.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. On today's show, I'm joined by David Ewing Duncan to talk about his new book, Talking to Robots. And you know that the chapters we cover are all about intimacy in sex. Plus, I'm answering your emails. Topics include what the future may hold for sex robots, intimacy robots. I mean, what if you had your own hologram version of me? So you really love going down on your partner, but she's apprehensive. What's the deal? Okay. To shave or not to shave. The age old question of sexual grooming. And you've got three kids and a threesome is the last thing on your mind. But your partner keeps bringing it up. How do you move Forward all this and more. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them. In a bygone day. Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend? Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh, my God, I feel so good. Being bad feels pretty good.

But you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com we have amazing posts up there that are gonna also change your sex, relationship and dating life for sure. You can also find me on Sirius XM Stars, channel 109. It's weekdays, Monday through Friday from 5 to 7pm PAC. And you can get a free subscription at sexwithemily.com sxm Ooh. Also, you guys, we have way more videos now, so check out our YouTube channel. And you can also check us out on Instagram. It's all sex with Emily across the board. And tell me what you think of the videos. And obviously you should subscribe because we love when you do that. All right, guys, hope you enjoy the show. I'm so excited to welcome my guest, David Ewing, Duncan E W I N G. He's an award winning science journalist, Print, television, radio, best selling author of nine books published in 21 languages. You've been busy. You're impressive. Yeah. You're frequent contributor to so many publications. Vanny Fair, MIT Technology Review, the New York Times and others. You've won a lot of awards. And now you have a new book coming out in July. Talking to Tales from Our Human Robot Futures. So congratulations on the book. I mean, I love the way you wrote it. From our first Future, Present, Past. Explain that. Your choice to do that. I love it.

Well, it's kind of an experimental book. And by the way, I do want to thank you because you were in it.

I was in it. Yes. And thank you for interviewing me for an early chapter.

No. That was so much fun.

It was fun.

And we're trying to remember when that was, but a little over a year ago.

And you're like, let's talk about sex and robots. I'm like, I'm still learning. And Getting into it, but they're coming.

Or even technology in general. I mean, it's even beyond robots, right? So we can get into that.

We can get into anything. Yeah, but. So, wait, so tell me about. Well, then, yeah, writing the book. What's been the.

Well, well, I'm a nonfiction writer. You know, I'm a journalist, and all my other books have been nonfiction, so I actually have to deal with facts. This is an experiment. And that whole near future, I. I think, anyway, or at least I tried to create a new tense called the present. Near future.

Present. Near future.

Yeah, it's partly NonFiction. So it's 24 robots, including a sex bot, but there's a doc bot, a warrior bot, a journalism bot, a thriller writer bot, and it goes on and on. And so I report from the present, kind of what's happening in reality with these things. And I talk to real people like you. And each, you know, at least most of the chapters have a real person, you know, somebody who's an expert in that field or they just thought of some crazy robot. But it's all wrapped in fictional stories. And I say it's sort of the old Isaac Asimov iRobot, if you remember that meets something like Black Mirror. So these are actual stories, kind of plot lines and all that. And that part I invented. And so the tents this present near future were sort of moving back and forth in time, and that was a huge challenge. And you can tell me you read it.

No, I read it. I mean, I love that you were like, so. Emily. It was just so. It really did take me, because it really made me realize, like, oh, yeah, this is. This is definitely happening. Like, we're definitely getting the robots. Because you could picture it like, you know, Emily Morris, who was a, you know, what'd you say? Like, a petite, you know, brunette who had a sex podcast that was popular in the early 21st century. She told me about, you know, she told me about intimacy and what I talked about. We talked about the intimacy and sex robot. And it was like. I just thought it was really well done. And it took me there to think, yeah, first of all, I'm a blip on the radar screen whenever this is happening. Happening. I love it. And, yeah, I thought it was very clever, and it was a way to get into it because I wouldn't typically be as interested in robots. Perhaps my brain doesn't go there as much, but I'm like, whoa. And reading this, I mean, definitely sex tech, and I've tried VR porn and all those things, but This. I was like, oh, I love it. Just. I think you succeeded at developing your new tense.

I appreciate that. And in fact, you and others that I talked to convinced me the chapter is actually called Sex Perrin's Intimacy Bot. Yeah, because, well, Esther Perel, who I know, told me that, you know, boy, sex bots are so boring. Why would I talk to you? I can't do her Flemish accent.

Yeah, she's amazing.

Yeah. But intimacy, that. That's interesting. So that's really what it became, a fictional story which you helped me develop in the future. It's not so much about sex, it's about intimacy and companionship.

Right.

Because in our conversation, you were saying, so, so what is the deal with sex robots? So it's like, it is true, though, when you think about it. And there are most of sex robots now, which there are Harmony, she's the most well known sex robot right now. And, you know, they're what, like $10,000 if you want to get one? And they look pretty real. Like I was saying, I was on this TV show a few years ago, two years ago, and it was about robots. It was like a talk show. And there was this Harmony, was there, the sex robot. And she was across the room, and there was some guy, like, from the Bachelor on my show. We were both in the green room, and Harmony walked by and I saw him, like, didn't know that was a robot segment. He was like, oh. And I was like, that's the robo, you know, so it's lifelike, but where it's going to go is insane. But it's like, for women. We're like, why would I want to have sex with, like, a plastic doll? Why? That's not even interesting to me. It's, like, transactional. And to go back to intimacy, like, we crave, like, connection and talking, and we're all so lonely right now. Anywhere, I think there is a loneliness epidemic. Why would we want that? So I think what we had talked about and when you mentioned your book, I was like, well, how are you going to replicate intimacy? So intimacy, that's what's going to be missing. And then you came up with the like. And this is the part that I liked. The intimacy robot of just being like, what if there's a sex therapist that's like a hologram that pops up in your room? It reminded me of, like, kind of what I do on the show every night. And I was like, okay, Bob, your wife has said to you six nights in a row now that she's ready to have sex and you have shut her down. Wouldn't it be time now for you to gently kiss her ear? You know, and then it goes away? Like, to me, that was a really. Like, I could see that happening and that I would love. I'm kind of doing that every night.

Yeah, well, exactly. And that's. I love the way that we developed that story because, you know, I mean, sex can be mechanical and boring. Right? It really is about how you're having sex, who you're having sex with. I mean, you're the one that knows more about this than I do. But, you know, if you're going to have something that's useful to a wide range of people other than, you know, I don't know, the kind of creepy sex, frankly. Still creepy sex bots or fembots that are out there now. I mean, how are you going to make this technology useful?

Right?

And we did. We cooked up this idea. It's like almost like having a, you know, a phone, like, like slab there. And wherever you are, wherever you want to have sex, you're outside, you're in your bedroom, wherever you just set this thing down and, you know, if you have a question or maybe want a little coaching or something, this little hologram pops up.

It's like, how can I help you with that? Yeah, exactly. Kind of like Alexa, right?

Right.

Hey, like it says in here, your book. So Emily Morris, first articulate what an intimacy bot might look like. An AI system that does some of the things as a therapist and say, like, hey, you guys had a fight. You've had this fight for six months. Like, let's check in and resolution right now. I mean, I think that is interesting. What did you find? I mean, you went deep, you talked to other people about this, the sexbot chapter. What did you find about the sex robots? And that was interesting to you or scary?

Well, I think the present day is a little scary because it's mostly these fembots. There aren't that many hymn bots, if you will. I don't even know what you. Man bots.

Right.

And you know, as you said as a woman, I have not. I don't know about the other women in the room here, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in a male sex bot.

No.

And even I don't think most men are interested in a sex. Female sex bot either. So it's a fairly small market. But these are kind of cartoonish like bots too. I mean, they look like, you know, the old Playboy centerfolds. You know, giant breasts and, you know.

They look like some of the chicks on Love island, which I'm obsessed with. I just saw for the first time. Yeah, yeah, okay, right.

And you know, it's just. There's a wonderful new book out by Kate Devlin, who is a British author and I was just over in the UK and I got her book, it's called Turned On. I don't know if you've heard of this.

Yeah, I have heard of it.

Yeah. So she does this wonderful description of, you know, these current day sex bots, like Harmony as basically being these robotic heads and they supposedly have artificial intelligence. That's what they're advertised as. I mean, it's hard to tell what that is anyway. And I try to get in that in the book in general, but. And the rest of it is basically a plastic dollar, right?

It's kind of like a big, or it's like a big fleshlight, like which is like the male masturbation sleeve. But now that's like encased in a big silicone body. And it's more, it's more.

Sex is more mechanical for men in that way. They're like, I'll stick my penis in anything, so I might as well stick it into this sex robot. And, and maybe it'll be a lot less complicated than my girlfriend who keeps saying she wants more for me and I'm not taking out the trash enough. But yeah, I don't think that we're there yet. But for women, like when I've been asked about this, I just think, you know, maybe some of the pros are if you're certain things you've been wanting to try in the bedroom and you could test it with a sex robot, you could rent a robot, but I don't think it's going to be the solution. But did you find anything in your, in your studies that like maybe like this is. Maybe Harmony is not impressive, but in the next. Whatever. How many years we should be a little concerned. Are we ever gonna.

I think we're pretty far away from anything that we would in our life. Really? Well, I don't know. It depends on what you mean by in your lifetime. You know, you think of like movies or tv, like Westworld. I mean, they're prostitutes galore in there, right? But they're. Yeah, and they look a lot. They look really. In fact, in that show in the future, they had to make them look slightly not human because it was too weird for the customers, you know, in the Westworld theme park to actually have sex with or do the other things they were doing. And of course, we know if you watch that show, that's. That's a. Yeah. Pretty violent, dark show, especially how women are treated or these women robots. And they start waking up and they start becoming conscious. So I don't know. That's a. That's one way it could go, right?

Is that what you're thinking, though? Like. Yeah. How are you feeling about it? Did you go in with a certain belief and now you're like, how do you feel about robots now? What's happening in the future?

Well, robots in general. In fact, I'm working on a story right now on. I'm more afraid of stupid robots than smart robots.

Yeah.

Because, you know, we see all around us. You know, I feel that way. Yeah. Alexa or Siri or whatever, they only work about half the time.

Right.

And, you know, they don't get the most simple questions. They don't have what's called general artificial intelligence or general intelligence. Sometimes they can do one thing really, really well is that like humans kind of.

Don't you feel like humans can be disappointing, too?

Oh, yeah, of course.

But with the robots, I see what you're saying. We're afraid of the ones that could go.

Yeah, we're giving these systems, if you will. They're mostly systems, not actual, you know, like robots sitting there with a face and everything. But they have a lot of power. I mean, look what happened with, you know, that plane crash with the Boeing 7 737. That was a stupid system that didn't know that it was actually about to crash the airplane. And a human would know that instantly.

Exactly. So where. So where should we be? Like, was there anything. Did you ever have any, like, I got to warn people or there's things you should do or what perspective. What did you kind of.

Well, let me pull back for a second about. We were talking about, you know, having sex with basically a doll.

Yeah, let's do that.

But what the. What, Like Harmony AI It's. Realbotics is the name of the company and what they're advertising Harmony as. It's not a sex bot. They're calling it a companionship bot. And in their advertising, they talk about be the first to never be lonely again.

Exactly. Okay, I highlighted that here in your book. Right? Never be lonely again. Yeah, that is just. That's what they're saying on the website right now, that these. Be the first ever be lonely again.

Yeah.

How is that not going to make you lonely?

Well, I don't know. I mean, it Looks, you know, you have to figure out what their market is there, but still is mostly guys, but, you know, it's guys who are lonely and, you know, they have trouble with. With women. I don't know, they have trouble dating women, meeting women.

It's kind of like having a. You have a body there, like a robot body. But. Yeah, so.

But they remember things. I mean, the AI, what they will tell you is it's machine learning. And these are all buz terms that mean different things, and they don't really mean exactly what they sound like always. But machine learning, they do apparently learn about you. You tell them things like your favorite foods and your favorite color, and you like sunsets instead of sunrises. And they remember that and they talk back. And they're programmed with certain personalities too, which you can actually turn up and down the intensity of.

Like, kink or what you're avoiding.

You could be like, tonight I want you to be kinky. I want you to be dominant, and tomorrow night I want you to be submissive.

Yeah.

And if you can kind of, you know, kind of suspend any. Just be like, this is what it felt like, and I can kind of get my kink met right now, then that might, you know, kind of. I guess that could. Could. I understand how that could work for. For some people sexually, but I don't think it's.

Yeah, but it gets even weirder because we start getting into the territory that you and I talk some about, about the role of technology in general in people, how people are interacting with the world, especially, you know, with. With potential lovers or, you know, in relationships and how, you know, forget the robots, the phone, you know, which we talked a little bit about that the, you know, some of these surveys and statistics are not going in a very good direction as people are spending so much time on their phone.

Exactly. We're like, say, you know, we are sleeping with our phones. We're waking up with our phones. We're staring at the Instagram before we go to bed. We are. Yeah, it's. It's. It's actually. And every day. Yeah, that's. We talked on the book. There's studies coming out every single day that say no one's having sex anymore. We're all addicted to our phones. And yeah, I do see, to me, this is a problem. Like, I feel like I do need to. We talk about this too. No technology in the bedroom. Like, can you. Can you. It's really hard, though, because it feels like our lifeline, like 100 times a day. Like Siri Siri, like, where'd my phone go? Like, if it's not near me, because I lose it, too, at all times. You know, we're obsessed with it, but I don't think that that's healthy. It's almost like a part of you is missing. So to me, that is destructive. And in relations, I mean, definitely in relationships, we choose our phones over our partners. And maybe in a way, we don't even have to feel that we're lonely because the phone does feel like a companion. So I guess I could see that transferring into the.

Well, that's what people think. It's. I mean, these. These things are. We're finding out more and more. I mean, how much did you love your phone when it first. The smartphone, when it first came out? We all love it. We're like, whoa, man, I can, like, summon a car. I can, you know, have gps. And we're only now finding out some of the darker sides.

Yeah, there's. But I think it's, like, everything. Like, if you use it in a smart way, like, if you use it in the healthiest possible way. But we're not. We're abusing it, and it's. As a result, it's just, like, numbing. I think it is numbing us out for sure. And also with dating online, that's the other thing people are saying, oh, you can find anything online now, which you can. And I'm down. People dating, you know, dating apps and all that. But we. A lot of you are just into the numbing of the swiping. Right. They're just like, I don't actually really want to meet with somebody. I'm just gonna swipe, swipe, swipe. So you think you're dating, but then actually going out and meeting, and then. And as a result of that, we're going out less. We're actually not even making efforts to meet people anymore. And then we're losing all of those skills. Like. Right. Like, so when we started dating, there wasn't. You had to go out and get rejected? Like, exactly.

I had to go up and say, hi, and she would say, go away.

Right. And then you feel bad, and then. And then you. Right. And you come back.

Right.

But that's. No one's learning that anymore because we're not taking risks. And so we're not taking risks. We're staying home with our phones or maybe potentially our robots. But I love. I mean, all this in here about the. The other people you talk to in here, too, is that. Yeah, like, tech is making us More isolated. And then also. Yeah. Taking the text out of the bedroom and with the robots, like, I wonder, like, would people have sex with. Would you, like, would you find. Was there any part of you that thought an appealing part of it? Like, where would you see the pros in this sex world and technology or with these. Where it could be going?

Well, I mean, that's a chapter. And by the way, in the fictional parts, you know, we've been talking about here is mostly the present day real stuff. There's even more about. Yeah, we probably talk about that enough.

No, I love it. I can talk about.

Yeah, but the. In the fictional parts. And that's one of the funny things about fiction. You never quite know where it's going to go. Like, I didn't set out. Okay, I'm going to write this hugely dystopic, horrible thing. Although I did that with some of the other chapters, this one turned out partly because talking to you and some of the other people I talked to who are basically optimistic about the future of this, you know, we can work at. Work this out. I'm not sure you'd be doing what you're doing if you didn't think that.

Yeah, no, I think we can work it out, but I don't think that we're ever going to. And that's what I love how you ended the chapter. It's like, I don't think that we all want to be in perfect relationships because essentially by getting a sex robot and thinking, getting all of your needs met and having this perfect human that we would get bored. Like, in fact, the messiness of love that we talk about and that we all kind of. That is part of love is that it's messy and it's ups and downs and ebbs and flows and we would miss that. Right. And I think we would partner everything that's perfect. You need the highs and the lows.

Well, in the story, you actually, in the future and a couple, couple of other relationship therapists invent something called Intimacy Bot. And it's what we described earlier. It's this sort of slab like a phone, and it's programmed with all of your wisdom and these other people's wisdom and it helps you out.

But there comes a time in the future when there's a rival to your Intimacy Bot and it's called the Perfect Lover Bot. So that's another company, a rival company. And Perfect Lover Bot tries to actually be that lover. That's not, it's not going to push you too hard. It's not Going to pull back too hard. It's going to try to get rid of the agonies and the ecstasies of relationships and love. Right. Because we all love the ecstasies. But the agony, oh, my God, we can barely get through that. So let's remove that. So that's what this robot in the future and intimacy bots go. Yeah, it goes way down in sales.

I love it. The perfect partner. Yeah, that would do well for a while.

Yeah. Well, and it does in the future.

In the future, in your scenario, I think that was brilliant. But then you realize it.

People kind of all in a story anyway. They all kind of wake up one day and they go, wait a minute, I actually miss the agony and the ecstasy of love. I mean, that's how poetry. Yeah. That's how you grow. That's how you. Exactly. I mean, we wouldn't have Shakespeare, half the poems in the world without that. And it turns out in the future that people have a choice, but they choose to go. At least most people with the messy parts. And I go way off in the future because the rest of the book and the end of the book, we're billions of years in the future and even billions of years in the future, we still like the messy parts.

We do like the messy parts because there's no such thing. But it's funny because we want the robots. And like, what I got is like, we definitely want them for something. It's like taking out the trash, like doing the things that we do not want to do. Right. Cleaning our homes, driving our cars, maybe flying airplanes. If we don't go that well, what else do we want them do? Everything pretty much like things that we're just annoying. But even then, though. But then there's been all these studies about when we outsource too many things to people, we actually start to feel. It sort of starts to hamper us after. Inhibit us after a while and we start to have negative side effects that we actually should be in charge of all of our own, you know, things that we can kind of delegate way too much.

Well, that's. You just hit on an interesting kind of point at least raised in the book, which is for the first time in history, we actually are going to be. I'll have much of that taken care of. I mean, we didn't have the op. Yeah. You didn't have a non human to like change a diaper for a baby, you know, or, you know, maybe to take out the trash. All of these things that we actually really do find annoying are Yard work. But it turns out that I think anyway. Well, I don't have a yard anymore. But I used to.

Right.

And I would. On the weekends, I would go. I groan, I go, oh, God, I gotta go out and, like, you know, do the gardening. And then I would get out there and I would love it.

Right, exactly. Nature getting your hands in the earth is just. It's so healing. I don't think that we do that enough at all. You're right. We would never leave our homes. In fact, that's what this is my concern right now. We're already not leaving our homes. We already get everything sent in and ordered in and play our video games and do whatever that we're not out anymore, gardening and doing the things and.

Well, and that's. That's right. I think we're getting a little taste of it even now. I mean, so much now is done and there's not. I mean, even my parents, who live in rural Maine, they discovered that they can order online groceries.

Yeah.

That may be one of the last places in America where, you know, they. They probably had it before. They just hadn't really excited.

They just figured it out. Yeah.

And for them, that's great because they're older and it's hard for them to get out, but. Yeah. I don't know where this is all going. You know, I. You and I are both old enough to remember. Not that old, but, you know, when. When you were walking down the street, you didn't have. You couldn't make a call or listen to podcasts. Yeah. You kind of walk down the street or, you know, driving. You might turn on the radio and listen to some music.

Right. You'd take three stations.

Yeah. You had. Right. You had time to think about things.

Exactly. I don't think that we think that we're always distracted. And this is what I also noticed. We talk more about intimacy and dating, which I have a problem with, is that. Do you remember this, too? You go into stores or you'd be waiting for your car. Are you doing something? And you wouldn't be. You'd have to talk to the person next to you. You would have to make small talk or you'd want to. Because what else am I going to do? You're not carrying a newspaper. Favorite book with you, maybe. But, like, mostly you're just. Life would not have so many distractions. But now we are gripping our phones all the time that the second we have downtime, we're like, what's going on? Like, on the commercial break, I'LL probably check my phone. But before, wherever we were at life, you would have to actually interact. And so this is the whole thing about, like, loneliness and just. So.

Yeah, that's, you know, I. You're hearing from a lot of people in relationships that he or she doesn't listen to me. Well, we're kind of forgetting how to listen in general. I think it's, you know, you want to fill that time with something. Oh, my God, I got 10 seconds. I'm going to check something on my phone.

Exactly, exactly. But we would do more thinking and more. Less distracted times for sure. But then I think that I've always had a problem with attention. I was distracted by something else, if I'm honest. But I think I definitely had more connections, human interactions. And that's what I think that we all crave. At the end of the day, we're always going to remember, like, how much we loved and how much we connected with people. And I don't think that.

No, I think that's right. And in general, not even with just sex Intimacy Bot, but in the book where we're starting to get technologies that can deal with aspects of our lives, you know, that mostly have been around emotions and dealing with other people. I mean, more and more robots and AI are going to be taking over roles like that. And what does that mean? I mean, you know, first of all, who programs them? Another chapter, the first chapter in the book is called Teddybot. And you know, that was Kevin Kelly, the futurist is an amazing writer and he came up with Teddybot. But we dreamed up this future robot that basically raised our kids. And it's advanced AI. They're probably sentient. They teach, they protect, all of that. And then we got into who programs Teddy Bot. I mean, is it strict or lenient or politically how you know, who programs?

What if you don't like the way they're raising your children? Like, to me, that sounds horrible. Why would. I wouldn't want that.

But, but that's kind of almost, you know, as even Alexa. I mean, mostly Alexa and Siri are still pretty neutral, right? You know, they have a female voice, which is kind of controversial, but. But beyond that, they don't really have much of a personality. But they will.

They will have a personality for sure. Sometimes I wish they did. Yeah, well, see, okay, I. Sometimes I wish Siri could just be a little kinder, A little more like say a little think more to me, like just. Hey, my phone's here. I know you lost it six times today, but I'M right here.

Or maybe tease you about it. Like, really?

That is what's gonna happen. But. Yeah, who is pro grabbing all the other robots? This is gonna be fascinating. Well, I love. I love the work that you've done here, David. I think it's gonna be fascinating for everyone to read your book when it comes out. Talking to Robots. Tales from Our Human Robot Futures. You did such a great job with it.

Thank you.

And we're gonna link to all of this. Where can people find you?

Maybe the easiest. It's what's Dutton Books, which is part of Penguin. So you go on the Penguin site and put my name in or my website, David Ewing. Duncan.

David Ewing. Duncan.

It's got a lot of stuff on it.

Okay, we're gonna have that in our show notes, and we're gonna have it on the website. And thank you so much, David, for being here. All right, we're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, we're gonna get into your emails.

Okay, so then this email came in to us from Sarah, who's 30 in Colorado. She wrote, hi, Emily. My husband and I have been together for 12 years and share three children. Before we were together, I explored my sexuality and did things that he never experienced. Lately, he's brought up the idea of a threesome, and I do not want to participate. I've done it and didn't enjoy myself. He said I should compromise and allow him to have anal sex with me again. I've done it. I didn't enjoy it. Am I being selfish and refusing these requests? He says I need to be more giving of myself and that I should want to help him explore more of his sexuality. I don't know what to do.

All right. Hey, Sarah, thank you for your email. Okay, Sarah, you guys have been together for 12 years. You have three children, and I think, yeah, I think it's important for you both together to work on your sex life. So my concern here is, yeah, you know, essentially your husband saying, listen, we've been together for 12 years. I want to prioritize our sex life and try some things different. Because, as you know, if you've been paying attention, but you've been following along with this sex family journey, we. It's going to get stale after a while. Like, everything. You got to mix it up. So that's what he's saying to you. And the only thing you can probably pull out, because that's like the top fantasies for men. If they haven't had anal yet, they want anal. If they haven't had a threesome. They want a threesome. Because that's just what he knows. So Sarah, I'm telling you is that it's up to you then you don't have to give into anal and you don't have to have a threesome. But what you do do is you have to. It's still your job, it's your responsibility as a partner in your relationship to work to co create a sex life that for both of you works. So if you don't want anal, you don't want a threesome, what do you want? What would be hot for you to explore? Because it sounds like it's about him and he wants you to compromise. And you know, and I, I'm not hearing anything here about what you want. And I get it too, because you've probably been very busy with three children and you're 30 years old and you're probably exhausted and your hormones are depleted and you're wiped out. And I get it. And sex is the last thing on your mind. So there's a certain place where he's, you know, there's both. There's again, takes two to tango. I think that you guys have to have a conversation.

When you guys have time. Hopefully you have a date night or you have a babysitter come over or you go on. I don't know if you've gone on vacation yet without the kids, but I think that's really important. Something as simple as a weekend away could really bring you guys closer together. And then you can have these talks or when the kids are sleeping and just say, I hear what you're saying about the anal and threesomes. I've tried them before. Let's talk about some other things we could do that would be, you know, that would turn me on. That would be great. Maybe you need some more foreplay, some foot rubs, some, some, some intimacy in a way. Maybe you need to get your hormones checked. Maybe you need more babysitters so you have more time to yourself. I understand that, you know, not feeling sexy anymore in your body. And the other thing I want to say this doesn't really match for you, Sarah, necessarily, but a lot of us have tried things once and we didn't like them. Anal is a popular one that a lot of you are like, nope, tried it once, it's not for me. And it's also one of those things. The first time we do it, it's usually with a partner because most people really don't know how to do it correctly. I would say if they're younger. If you did it when you were before, before you were with him. So 12, you did it when you were 18. So I'm gonna assume that you did it, Sarah. And if someone you used no lube, they did it right away. It hurt. And so anal can be really pleasurable for a lot of people when it's done right, but incorrectly, it's friggin painful. So that's what I gotta say about you. There might be a way to slow it down to listen to how we explain on the show. We've got a lot of good blogs on our site. We've got a little gotta live information on how to do anal right, not how to do it wrong. Most people do it wrong. Yeah.

I mean, at least she's, she's like said she's like, I've gone through it, I don't need it. I feel. How would. Okay, how does a couple with, how does a couple with children kind of like go through, through the idea of bringing another person?

You get a babysitter, you go to Vegas for the weekend, you.

So definitely not at home.

No. No. You don't want your kid to be like, mommy, oops, who's, who's the extra daddy in the room or mommy in the room?

No.

Yeah, you don't want that. You're like, who's in bed with you? Mommy.

That'd be an interesting story.

That would be great. Exactly. In therapy in 20 years, you know, you think they're gonna be talking about that when kids don't forget. So. Yeah, but I think he's just the kind of desperate for. Again, you guys, it might not even be that he needs all these things. He just needs some kind of connection, intimacy. And maybe he just needs the enthusiasm. Sarah, from you, even if you don't. I just get it though. I get both sides of it. She's probably exhausted and doesn't even feel enthusiastic for sex anymore. So that's why it's important you've been listening to the show, to like do what you can to get into your body to masturbate. Get to know yourself again sexually and ask for what you want. Important partners aren't our mind readers. They're not mind readers. We wish they were. Yep. They're not.

Okay, so we got another question coming in from Instagram. Says I don't know how to initiate sex on dates. How could you please help?

Who's it from, man or woman?

From a man.

Man.

Yes.

Okay, so initiating sex on dates is really about. I mean, it's about like re. Initiating sex or kissing. I don't know. Is it about, like, finding out if your partner is. If your person's like, into it? So I think you gotta start slow. You gotta read their body language. You know, you could start out like, with a kiss. You could start out saying, like, I just keep thinking about kissing you. I'd love to kiss you right now. I mean, honestly, just saying I want to kiss you or I keep thinking about it is a great way to let someone know you're interested. I think also since we don't have a ton of practice now out, like, connecting and communicating with people, because most people are on their phones all the time and I think we're losing that, that it's really awkward. Like, this period of initiating is awkward. So I think even asking permission and letting him know you're interested because then we separate from each other, we have had dates. And then people are like, oh, I couldn't tell if he was into me. Couldn't tell if I was into her. And so letting it be known, is it really, like, think in a direct way, but not acting on it and asking a question could be a good way to go.

I think also just like.

Each step of the way. Because I like when a guy asks me, oh, can I kiss you? Because then it takes away that awkward head shove thing or like where they lean in and you're like, I don't know yet.

Right?

And then you're like, go for it. And then it could be awkward. But someone. Why do you think it is that people think it's not hot to ask.

Because they don't ask correctly or something. Or maybe they're like, oh, no, just do it. Because women sends mixed signals sometimes. Like, I just want you to do it. I just want to know. And then if people do it and they're not ready, like, oh, why you come in? So I don't think someone just hasn't done it that right. Like, I'd really want to kiss you. Right? I think it would be. I don't know. I don't know why. I think it's like, ruins the moment. But that's only if you're someone who's inside of your head.

You.

You. When a moment is ruined, you are allowing the moment to be ruined. Like, you are interpreting. Interpreting whatever happened to. You're creating a story about whatever happened and making it a bad moment. But really, if you just stay in the moment, you're like, oh, he's interested in me. That's what I wanted. Like, don't judge the way he showed it because you have to give people credit. Whoever's doing the initiating, that's not easy. And that's why. One of the top questions I hear from men are like, why won't my partner initiate? My partner doesn't initiate. I initiate all the time. It's because we're not. We don't. A lot of us aren't oriented that way. Like, we never had to. So cut em some slack if it's a little awkward the first time or it's a weird kind of fumble towards kissing you or making the move like it's not easy and you're facing rejection. Scary, scary place.

I have a question. What's a good way say that I'm into this person. What is a good way to tell? Let the person know that you're into them but you're not ready for it yet.

Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's like, God, yeah, I've thought about. I think it's like, you know what? I'm really feeling this with you. I'm having a good attraction to you, but I want to go slow. I think it's just like, yeah, I would love to see you again. And I think we should end this date, but let them know you're interested. But it just. You want to go slow. I think that we forget sometimes that we just kind of push people away because we, like, freak out in the moment and then we send the signal that we're not interested. But if we just say, I'm into you, but not right now, and that's just a matter of being in your body and recognizing, like. And this is what I want everyone to practice. Like, not just giving in because someone asked you to have sex or guilted into it or shame or anything, but more like, it's okay to think you might want it but not be ready yet, I think that's really healthy. And that's the practice of being. Again this weekend I talked about this embodiment work. What is your body feeling? What is it telling you in the moment? It knows. Like, we all know we have to pay attention and not act from, like, a fearful place. Or like, I should have sex with this person because I'm on a date with them and they brought me to a nice dinner or I'm already back. Here's another big one. If you're already back at someone's house and you guys are like, fooling around, things are getting hot, and then in your mind you're like, I'm not Sure. I want to go ahead with this. Totally okay to stop. In fact, I encourage it if you're not feeling. You'd be like, wait, you know what, let's stop for a minute. I just need to take a few deep breaths. It's kind of going fast. Let's just kind of, you know, breathe together, talk together, it's a lot better. And then you reset. Rather than being like, no pushing their hands away, then leaving or like then they feel like they fucked up. I mean, just communicate whatever you're feeling in the moment.

All right, this one's an interesting one. This is an email we got from Ann, 20 in Quebec. Hi Emily. My boyfriend has a tickling fetish. I don't share this turn on, but it is a lot of fun. So I enjoy having tickling involved in our sex life. However, my boyfriend has only been able to finish when tickling is involved. I don't have a problem with this at all, but I think it'd be fun to get him off different ways as well. Any tips for someone with a fetish to get off without it? Thanks.

Alright, Ann, this is a good question because let me tell you guys, there is a difference between like a fetish and like having a propensity or kink towards something. When you have a fetish, like he's a tickle fetish or you have a foot fetish or a leather fetish, that object is actually required for complete arousal. Like if he's not tickling you, he can't get aroused. And I don't think he can finish either. Now maybe, now maybe he's aroused and there is another way to finish him with him tickling you. But you'd have to practice with him. That'd be something that you need to talk to him about. And honestly, if you're both 20, there's ways to learn. Just because it's a fetish and he requires it, maybe.

You could tickle him and then he could have sex with you simultaneously while you're ticking, tickling him. I don't really know his scenario, but I think that letting him know that you'd like to explore. I don't think it's as set as we think. Like you guys could try try different ways, but I just want people to understand the difference. Like so like, oh my God, I have a total fetish for something. Blowjobs or fetish for dancers. But really that might just be a attraction rather than like a requirement that you need for sex to happen.

Is there a way, like with some kind of sex Therapy, you can unlearn a fetish, or is it pretty ingrained?

It's pretty ingrained. You know, I. I've actually. We studied this. There's been a lot of studies on this. And it's like. It's a very. I mean, there is behavioral conditioning. There are ways to rewire your brain to stop doing everything. So, yes, I think that if you learn to replace that desire towards, say, tickling and you replace it with something else, and you might have to work with some kind of behavioral therapist or some kind of practice that you absolutely could, but it's not like, it's not going to go away unless you do some really rigorous behavioral training.

Yeah. So if you got one, you might as well live it up.

Okay, let's do another one. Here, from Instagram, it says, my girlfriend doesn't like receiving oral. What kind of things can I do to persuade her? And this is coming from a man.

Okay, well, you're not gonna persuade her. But what you can do is there's a lot of women who don't like receiving oral sex. And my belief is that there's two kinds. One is the woman who actually doesn't feel good. There's a lot of women who have very, very sensitive clitorises, and it just really doesn't feel good. And for those women whose clitoris are sensitive, they're like, no, it doesn't feel good. And sometimes those women can have, like, multiple orgasms. However, there's some women who think, like, you don't really want to be going down on them, or like, maybe something's wrong or they smell funny or they don't have the confidence. So what you have to do there is just say, you know what? I think that it would. You could ask, too, and say, what? What is it about me, you know, going down on you that you're not into? And you could say, just, I'm just asking. So I want to understand more about you. We're together, and I want to understand what turned you on and what you're into sexually. And she might just say, oh, I don't know, I don't like it. Or she could say, well, I had a bad experience once. Or she might say, well, I don't really feel like you want to. Or she'll say, I think I feel gross down there. And then that's when you have a chance to say, no, babe, I. Oh, my God, I think you'd be so hot. I just want to go down on you all night. I want you to lay back. I want you to like. You know, my favorite thing for someone to say is, if you want to go down on a woman and she's not into it, after you guys are this chat, just say, babe, I'm not going anywhere. I got all night. And then you want to be like, I'm so into. You smell good, you taste good. And I think that the more that women can just kind of relax into oral, that they'll come around. But again, it's not process. You're asking me, like, get her into it without understanding more about why she doesn't want to before you can move forward.

So this one comes from Sarah. She wants to know, how do guys feel about shaving? Not shaving for sex. I had a recent experience where I wasn't shaved and the guy didn't say anything, but I still felt really insecure throughout the entire encounter.

Oh, okay. So, Sarah, how do you feel about shaving? I think that what we have to remember is you get to decide. You get to decide how you feel. Was it like, are you usually shaved, but you weren't shaved? I really think that most guys you're with aren't going to care, and they're just. They're happy to be having sex with someone. And I think if a guy shames you about it and makes you feel bad about it, then I don't think he's the person for you. And I think you have to do whatever makes you feel comfortable. And I don't know how old she is, but it's such a good lesson to learn, because I think when you maybe were a little younger, you might not really. You might think, oh, I. You know, what do guys like? What do people. And I think that is the common, like, guys want to know what do girls like? But what I'm telling you is what really matters is what you like. Because then, you know, we always say what I always say, what is true is that confidence is the sexiest thing in the bedroom. So if you are rocking, shaved, unshaved, landing strip, whatever people do. Carving initials into your. I don't know.

Have you ever gotten a shape?

No, I haven't. I'm surprised I haven't. That seems like something I would do. What kind of shape? Like. Like a.

Like the lips from your logo?

Yeah.

Oh, kiss here.

Kissy. No, I think I tried to. No, I usually just, like, take it off, but I think I was gonna do a guy's initials once, but it was a G, and it was just really hard to do, and I just fail. I, like, tried to so you're gonna.

Add a G spot above your.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. I should now I should get a tattoo that just is like, here's a G spot. Here's a clitoris.

You just like arrows, tattoo instructions.

Exactly. No, I'm not stressful to have sex with at all. I swear to God. People always, like, are guys intimidated to date you? I'm like, no, no, no. It's all written out for them, right? All over their body. Tattoos just says, here's my nipple. Slow down. It's like a game. Like a board game. Going down. Going down to me and be like five minutes. At least five minutes on the nipples. Slow it down, slow it down. And then he's going further down, like, nope, not yet. But like, my body. Yes.

What if there was, like, an operation game, but for turning on your partner or a woman or a man or whoever it is.

Yes.

And it kind of just. Like, you can tailor it. Like, you can program it, and then you give it to your partner. You program it, like, to do.

But is it really operation where you're picking it?

Well, yeah, because you have to. Well, you have to, like, you just have to touch. It'll be like, the same kind of thing. And you have to touch the parts, but if you go too, too fast.

Yeah.

It'll buzz and.

Right.

Yeah.

Drop the bone.

Or if you skip over the breast completely, it's just like the game blows up.

Yeah, exactly. No, I think. I think it's great. I think whatever helps us. We need some instructions. And it could be a fun game. It doesn't be operation, but with your partner. Like, if you're like, I don't know how to explain what I want. If your partner's on board, you could have, like, one night being all about your pleasure. And you do this. You're like, let's start making out and then don't. And if you both agree that you get to lead one night and the next night, then you don't have to worry. Anything goes. Like, if you're a pleaser. Because the thing is, like, Sarah's a pleaser probably too. Sarah, like, what's right? What's wrong? You know, I think a lot of women are. We want to do it, but this way, if you're with a partner, like, I can't worry if they aren't into the fact that I want.

More making up or I want more oral sex or I want my toy. Like, I can't worry about it because I'm directing the sex that night with my partner as there's we're moving through it like, no, no, not so fast. And then they know. And then the next night. It's kind of like the kissing thing. I talk about where people believe that if you. A bad kisser is reasons for dismissal and that that just means that you're not meant to be together. And I just don't think that's true because I think you can work on kissing. You're like, I want you to show me how you want to be kissed and then I'll show you how I want to be kissed. So. And I think that works for a lot of people. So that could also work before play like I'm showing you what I like one night. Or it could be a game. Or you could do the game of operations as well. Just gamify your sex life. We gamify everything else. Why not?

I'm just, I'm picturing Jamie, someone like doing it to her and she's like, like screams at their face that they're doing it wrong. Like, no, no, no. Like someone doing it to you personally. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Sometimes I do feel like in the moment I try to make it sound sexy directions. But I think sometimes I'm also like, I'm just like, no, touch me here. Yeah, like I don't.

Jamie's abrupt.

Uh huh. You're right. He's gonna be more flowy.

Flowy. Touch me here. It's practice. It is practice with your slutbot robot friend. All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed this show and hope you enjoyed the interview with David Ewing Duncan. And just thanks everyone for supporting the show and for sharing the show with your friends, with your neighbors, with whoever you think would get a benefit from the show and help them with their relationships and sex life. Like it's helped you. We so appreciate it and we love when you subscribe. And just thanks everyone for supporting the show. Thank you also to amazing team, Ken, Kristen, Michelle, producer Jamie and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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