Sexually Awesome with Jason Ellis

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I want everybody. I want everybody to love me, right? You know? Is that a radio? It's so pathetic. But I. At least I can admit it. I wish everybody loved me. I wish I had a billion followers on Instagram and everybody told me how great I was all the time. I would love that.

Don't they?

No, I mean, not a billion, but enough. They do enough. Quite frankly, the way I react to people loving me, it's enough. Cause I. The ego is embarrassing as well. I've learned that from the radio. It's in the book. From where I thought I was, the show was really big. And I'm like, you know what? I think I might actually be the greatest radio host that ever lived. And so it was from being feeling really small to thinking you're the biggest person in the room. And then I realized, man, you're really fucking annoying. And that shit is too much sometimes, right? People don't need to hear how sensational you are all the time. Maybe you should just do your work and not brag about it.

Seemingly saying that on the show a lot, you'd be like, I'm the most.

Oh yeah.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and on today's show, I'm joined by radio host, MMA fighter and author Jason Ellis to talk about his book still awesome, and how to make your sex and relationship awesome too. Topics include embracing your sexuality, why coming to terms with it, and opening up about it will make you so much happier, ways to make an open relationship work and what it's actually like, not what you think it's like, why doing your work and going to therapy is vitally important in maintaining relationships with everyone around you, including yourself, and how to talk about what you like sexually without freaking your partner out. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.

Bedroom eyes, they call them, in a bygone day.

Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend, cuz.

My man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh, my. Do women know about shrinkage?

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh, my God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good, but, you.

Know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, sex, relationships, and everything in between. Find us on social media, everywhere. It is Sex with Emily across the board and our website, sexwithemily.com. you're gonna love it. There's a lot of great information there to help you have the sex life that you want, especially this year. Happy 2020. All right, enjoy the show. So Jason is here. And let me just say this. We're gonna get into it because Jason wrote a book. Jason Ellis and I don't do this often. Jason, I'm busy and I have an attention span of a gnat sometimes, but I sat down and devoured your book last night, so I think I have lots of things to talk to you about. So it's called still the Trials and Tribulations of an Egotistical Maniac.

Yeah, bit of a sarcasm thing, but.

I understand you have to. You know, we'll get to that.

Right?

We'll get to all of that. And you can also, you can send your questions also through Instagram. I know some people don't want to call in. You know, some people don't want to call into a radio station. Jason.

I get that.

You get it.

And it's like this new thing where people just want to DM you About everything.

Yes. And they do. They DM the questions. So what I. When I say go to Instagram, what I mean, I'm glad you brought that up. We actually, every night on the show, if you go to the stories, you click on the little, you know, my face is lit has a little circle around it. Some people don't know. You click on it and then you'll see. Ask your question here and then you ask your question and then we answer. So you can do it there.

That's smart.

You can also email me feedbackexwithemily.com See, Jason, we can learn from each other, right?

Yeah. I didn't know that until right now. I'm gonna steal that from you.

You can do it. We learn from each other. And I've learned so much from you, Jason, this book. Yes. I learned more about you.

Oh, okay.

Cause you're kind of. You're an enigma.

Yes. Everybody says that to me.

You are. But now I understand. And I feel like we have a lot in common, too.

Oh, yeah?

Yes, a lot. So.

Oh, now I'm very interested.

Yes, there's a lot. Well, I mean, it's not as sexy as you think, but. Well, maybe. Maybe some of the sex stuff.

Yeah.

But let me just say this. They could find you at wolfmate.

Yeah. Yeah. On Instagram. Yeah.

Ellis mate. Twitter.

Yeah.

And then this book is still awesome. And you could go to our show notes sex withelmily.com, click up, you'll have a link to buy it or buy it on Amazon or whatever.

Jason Ellisbook.com is where you get it.

Get it from there. Only Jason Ellisbook.com so you can actually probably make some money on it.

Yeah, we're keeping this one. I had a New York Times bestseller and it was more of a. Can you believe I can't even read? I've only read one book my whole life and I have a New York Times bestseller. So that was so mind boggling for somebody who has no education and is almost illiterate to pull that off. I mean, obviously Telly helped me with this, but just to know that somebody cared enough to want that book to come out and enough people bought it till it was a New York Times bestseller. It made no sense to me. But the victory is done. Now I just want to make this book get out everywhere. I don't want to do one tour copying Jude. Jude's done his hummingbird thing and he just keeps going around to different cities doing book signings and showing people his book. And he keeps the Money. And I thought, I've had a record deal before. And then we did our own record label and the money we made from our own record label versus the record deal that we once had. Sure, we were on the Billboard charts and that sounded cool, but once I was on it once, I don't need twice. Give me the money.

Right. No, you're right. That's really smart. Especially these days. It's so much easier to self publish. Do your own shows, do your own podcast, even do whatever. I get it. That's great. Well, that's really smart. So the first book, I'm awesome.

Yes. Still sarcasm.

Well, I understand because what I saw in this was kind of like your journey to get your like lowest self esteem to self acceptance. And I think maybe self esteem is something that we always sort of work on. It's not like you're ever like super high. You're like, this is. I'm just super confident today. But realizing how much your self esteem was so debilitating and then having to like you know, really open up so much in here. I mean that you. I guess what I think I could identify with with all that like negative self talk because you open the book, you go back to your first marriage and like opening up about like, you're like, she should leave me. I'm an asshole. I'm a piece of shit. Like when you've low self esteem, this is how you deal.

Yeah. I also was not a, a person you would want to live with as well. There was. I mean, I'm a nice person, but I was not ready for a relationship. So sometimes when I talk badly about myself, that's sort of the coach in me I've always responded to. You're not gonna stop me, you know, so if I say something bad about myself to get up and get something done, it's worked for almost all my life. That's worked in a positive for me where I'm like, listen, I'm not gonna cuss here. But I'm like, listen, you piece of shit. You fucking nothing. If you don't get up and do something right now. And that would make me get up. I now experiencing other people and seeing how people like words of encouragement and words of affirmation and they do great things when you give them words of encouragement. I'm like, man, nobody ever did that for me.

Right. Well that's cause you had to self parent.

Right. But these days I'm not. I catch myself being mean, but I really do try to not go there as much. Cause it's still that animal that lives in me where I can just go down that dark road and make things that aren't true feel true to me.

Right, Exactly. Cause our thoughts are not the truth.

Mm. Check you out.

Right? Well, no, I. Yeah, dude, it's right. Like the negative self talk, which a lot of us think are motivating us. And I see the coach in you, but for me, I realized, like, I didn't know there was any other way. Like, I was always just so really hard on myself. And there was this one part where you're talking about your friend. Cause this goes back. You don't have years in it, which I really wanted context. I'm just saying I didn't know the years. It's like 15 years. 20.

No, I mean, really, that might go back a little bit here and there, but the first book is from before I had a radio show up until I had my first MMA fight. And then this one is from that day before I got divorced. And all this other stuff happened from the radio show being so big. And then me sort of finding a new person that was okay with this sexuality part of me that I've always hidden and to the point where she kind of brought it out of me, and I became more. Less concerned about other people's opinions of what I really liked. And then that sort of brought out this other side that is super recent to me where I can gladly tell anybody at a restaurant or anywhere that I'm a, you know, pansexual man. And. You know what I mean? I'll suck dicks, baby. What's up?

Exactly. But that's even since I've known you, Right?

But it is new. But I don't. I say it. And I know some people get grossed out by it or they think it's a bit too much, but I just think that there's so many people out there that hide being me, and it's not. I know that it might be a bit blunt, but that's me. If you listen to my show, you'll catch it a little bit. I'm a little bit pushy when it comes to saying stuff, but my theory is that if you hear it enough from a guy who's. I could probably beat your ass. I probably got as much many guns and I can jump cars and motorbikes. I do all the things that. That. That don't usually come with this. And that's bullshit. There's no. You can be a man who loves tattoos and guys, and you can be vice versa. And everybody Needs to get over it and not be like, look, man, don't put it in my face. No, that's bullshit. Because there's kids that are hearing this and you say, I don't want to hear about it. Keep it to yourself. That means that it grosses you out. That means my existence grosses you out. I'm okay with that because I'm confident with who I am now. But you're talking about. I think about the people that DM me that are 17 and 18 that are thinking about ODing or biting the bullet because they don't want anyone to find out that they're bi, Right?

That they're bi or that they're gay. So have you had a lot of people come up to you or DM you saying, thank you, you gave me permission to now come out about the fact that I'm bisexual or I want to be with men or.

A lot lately? Because like I said, I would say the last six months, I've sort of got a little bit more of a. I've really thought about it, like, okay, now that you've found the things that you're happy and you're living this life, what does it all mean? And how can help other people feel okay with it? Because some people don't realize it. I listen to a video. There's a audiobook from my last book that's out on podcast to promote my new book. And Tully found a bit where I was talking to him, pretty much admitting that I have had gay encounters. And he just brushed over it, like, thought I was being sarcastic. And he's listening to the tape again. I was listening to it yesterday and it almost made me cry on the radio because I thought, I'm trying to tell him. I'm trying to tell anybody, but I'm so terrified at the same time. So when he didn't catch on, I just let him not catch on because I thought maybe he doesn't want to know. Maybe this is going to make our relationship wrong. Like, I have to worry about people not liking who I am anymore. It's stupid.

It is. Well, it is. But what do you. So when you get to it, what do you think that, like, deep fear is, like, people find out you're bisexual and then what? Like, what goes beneath that? What happened?

You know, I want everybody to love me, right? You know?

Is that a radio?

It's so pathetic, but at least I can admit it. I wish everybody loved me. I wish I had a billion followers on Instagram and everybody told me how great I was all the time. I would love that.

Don't they?

No.

I mean, not a billion.

But enough. They do enough. Quite frankly, the way I react to people loving me, it's enough. Because the ego is embarrassing as well. I've learned that from the radio. It's in the book. From where I thought I was. The show is really big, and I'm like, you know what? I think I might actually be the greatest radio host that ever lived. And so it was from being feeling really small to thinking you're the biggest person in the room. And then I realized, man, you're really annoying. And that is too much sometimes.

Right?

People don't need to hear how sensational you are all the time. Maybe you should just do your work and not brag about it.

Saying that on the show a lot. You'd be like, I'm the most.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

I wanted to. I didn't meet you until, like, radio.

People four years ago.

I just got it the. The blueprint from Howard Stern. I just saw. I didn't know. I didn't listen that radio.

Right.

Tony Hawk got me on the radio show because he thought I'd be funny. So I was his co host.

That's an amazing story.

And then Sirius XM said, holy shit. Would you like to have a job talking? And I was like, I'm not gonna be a good skateboarder for much longer. Yes, I would like to try that. And then listening to Howard Stern, and then he was arguing with Opie and Anthony, and I'm like, who is Opie and Anthony? And I'm like, they're fighting each other. They don't like each other. And he's trying to steal my shit. And I'm like, okay, so that's my thing. I mean. And I'm looking for. I'm a competitor, right? So this sounded like an energizing. Like an exciting part of radio to me, where maybe there'll be a guy as big as me that wants to have a fucking fight and we can talk about it. Maybe we could step outside, because I'm from a place where that was. I grew up where that was. Okay. That was kind of a.

In Australia, in Melbourne.

Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

People fought a lot.

I know it sounds like it. Your childhood. It was not an easy childhood.

And then not even parts were pretty easy. But some parts were tough.

Right. Well, that was the other thing is that. Well, first off, being a radio host, you're right. Like, I guess it's were so different. Like, I never think, God, I hope where I can fight other people around here. But I do think I want to be a. A great host and help people and be vulnerable and be real and open to be myself.

See, it took. You caught on early with that one. And it took me a while. I wanted to win, and I wanted victories. And then I realized that's a male. That's not right. But it's not the objective at all. The most important thing to me now is I didn't think that I could actually help anybody at first. Someone said, hey, man, you know, you get my day to day. You make it easier because you're funny. And I'm like, that's kind of helping. That could kind of consider that as a. As a helping thing. And now when people are talking about another level of look, you're not helping my day to day. I was thinking about killing myself. And now you're saying this. And now I feel better about existing. I'm like, okay, this is another level. This is almost like, can I raise my kids Good level. This is the most important thing I'll ever do in my life.

Yeah.

How the fuck did I get here?

Well, I think it's because you're willing to. What I see is you are really. You're not afraid to keep. Keep peeling back the layers of the onion, as they say.

Well, it makes me happier every time I find more out about who I really am and then admit it to somebody. I'm happier.

Right, because you feel like you're holding it.

I'm happy, thirsty. I spent too many years in the dark and being happy with being angry and dark with myself. And now I know every time some I meet somebody who's a positive person and isn't full of shit. This makes my life happier and then makes me want to help other people, which I have found makes me happier. And I just want to live happily, happier dayto day now than I did my time in the. Everyone hates me. I just want to be happy.

That's such a. Like, that's. It's just a terrible place to live too, thinking everyone hates you. And you got to keep keeping up. You got to keep reinventing yourself. You got to keep going. And now you're like, oh, the more real and authentic I am, people are going to resonate with that. And then, you know, people do love listening to the show, and then that drives you because you actually are helping them. I get it. That's why. That's why we're here, right? To help people to change their lives. So I also think that the thing about therapy, I thought that you really. Because I talk a lot about it in the show, about how everyone I believe needs therapy. And I think that I have to be. I think that that's message after a while, be like, they. People have such a stigma around it. Well, it means that I'm really broken or they're gonna put me away or I can't afford it. Like, I think even for men sometimes. Maybe I should say you should go see a coach because maybe men don't want to go to therapy. Yeah, I'm just trying. But what I love is that you detail, like, where you were and how it got you there and therapy, whether it was going to rehab or. And I loved her. Your recent ayahuasca journeys, all the stuff that you. But especially it sounds like the talk therapy early on really just helped you realize, you know, the patterns and having a place to go. And I feel like you were just really able to demonstrate in your book that fucking therapy is the way it is. The way like it is. You have to find a good one.

Yeah, that's. That's very important too. So I feel a lot of people, when they first get one, if it's not the right one, then they go, oh, therapy. I tried that. It's terrible. I'm like, that's that. Because that's not the case. There's somebody for everybody and there's doctors. Just like when I was a pro skateboarder, there was other guys that used to be at the bar on a Saturday night that were telling girls they were pro skateboarders. And yeah, they might have received a couple of checks for riding a skateboard, but they weren't on our level.

Right.

And that's the same as doctors, the same as, you know, psychiatrist.

There's so many bad therapists, which you've also said it's like you do. Don't you find too. And you say a lot that you're gullible and I feel like. Is someone who's always, like, seeking. I had a childhood of trauma stuff too, and I'm always trying to find, like, someone who could help me. And you might be the. The guru or the helper. And then I think that the further along you go on your healing journey, you realize that a lot of people are full of.

Yeah, that one. That one does happen a lot.

Right. Especially in this game, in the radio, in the entertainment.

Entertainment, yeah.

Right. I'm just starting to realize that, like, it's taken me a while because I was very trusting. And then I'm like, oh, just in a lot of ways, people are not what they say they are. But I think you can't go there until you do the work.

I just have found that one to be. That was new to me. I didn't know that that was the case. And that found that I was butt hurt by that. Same as business. I've never been a businessman before. And then the radio show. All of a sudden, I'm in big business, and I'm doing business deals where there's real money involved here. And I was just a skateboarder that can barely read or write. And I know if you want to be good at something, you better be in it. You better have your head in it, and you better love it.

So you were kind of trusting people. You're saying for business that you didn't know, and then you make mistakes.

Yeah, well, I think you make a mistake by saying, I don't know anything. I'm just worth a lot of money. And someone goes, I'll help you. You just said you don't know what's going on. Just help me pay my bills. And there's a lot of money coming in. I don't think the average bear, especially if they're like, an agent or whatever, they probably got this other alternative. Ulterior motive.

Think so? Like 10% or 15%. So, Jason, we're gonna take some calls here, okay? Hang out.

I like people.

Okay, let's talk to Waldo, 32, in Pennsylvania. Hey, Waldo, thanks for calling. What's going on?

Hey, Emily. How you doing?

Love what you guys do over in the military. We. We put you guys on the jumbotron and just let you guys beat the shit out of each other. It was awesome.

Wait, what? Oh, you're talking about Jason.

Wait, there's no way you're beating the shit out of each other, are you, Emily?

Oh, no, no, no. Oh, no. Whenever we would watch you guys on the MMA fights.

Oh, okay.

Got it. You put him on the jumbotron. Got it. Okay. I was like, were we fighting? Cool. Waldo. Got it. Jason's the best.

But anyway, you should have a fight, Emily.

I know.

I'm fighting Ellis Mania.

I would. I've been wanting to fight. I've been wanting to. Fighting to find someone to train because I'm starving.

I'll train you.

Stop.

I'm not saying that I'm in. No, I will train you to be a killer dream. Yeah. And then you should beat the shit out of some bitch at Ellis Mania and we'll film it and have A big after party. It'll be cool.

Waldo, will you come get a trophy? Okay, I'm in. Dude, don't just say that shit.

I'm not. Okay, don't test me. You will be punching people in, like, an hour.

No. All of you, in. I'm in. Waldo, what's going on? Thanks for calling. How can I help you?

Actually, I called in last week, and you helped me on the. Basically communicating with my wife about.

Making her. I wanted her to peg me more and.

And all of that. And I actually talked to her, and.

She went or went for it. I mean, she told me, just like you said. She didn't want to hear it in the heat of the moment. She wanted, like, more of, like a. More of like a plan thing with us having kids. Like, it's not exactly something that can.

Be, like, whip out, start pegging all of a sudden. Right. Okay, good. So this is great, because, Waldo, you called in saying you. You had told her that you want to be pegged. She did it once, but it wasn't happening at the frequency you'd like. So then you. Right, Good.

Are you washing before and all that?

Oh, of course.

What kind of thing do you use to wash yourself out?

Wash it out, just, like, clean, nice area.

Everyone needs an enema.

Yeah, but you eventually are gonna have an accident, and that, I find, can maybe throw some people off. Some your wife might feel like maybe Sunday night.

Pegging is a little bit more hesitant. I'm just saying. Look, it's not that big of a deal to wash out. I have a thing that's on my shower. I think the ones you have, whether you put the pump, the water bottle up your butt, I don't think those work very good unless you're, like, a pro that does it all the time. But for me, there's ones you can buy in the sex store. And it's like a metal one that connects to your shower head, and you just switch it from shower to the thing, and you put a bit of lube, and it's like a metal thing that goes up your butt, and it's just washed two times, and you are super good. Super good. Super safe.

Thank you for that, Jason Ellis. Anyway, Waldo, this is great. Okay, so thanks, Waldo. So it was good. You guys got. So really just a matter of communicating and finding out that she's totally down, but she needs a little bit of warning. You got to set it up. You got to, like, be in the mood to peg, especially when you got kids at home, when you're busy awesome. Okay. Anything else going on, Waldo? Well, thank you. I'm so glad that worked out. I love that you called back to let me know.

I appreciate the advice and really enjoy your show. And whenever I, Duke or Jason came on and saying about being like bisexual and my hat's off to you, because I was kind of in the dark about that for a while and I kind of came out to my wife one day and just said, hey, I think I might be. And a sucking a dick.

Okay. Right? And she was okay?

Yeah. She just kind of looked at me and she was like, okay. It's just kind of like went back to what we were doing. But.

All right, well, you have the same way with Woods. I'm gonna suck a dick. What's for dinner?

That's kind of how I did it.

Yeah. Well, that's how we learn. Okay, thanks, Waldo. I'm so glad, so glad you found the show. Thanks for calling. Awesome. Take another call, Dave, because he's been holding. We got to know Dave, 56 in New Jersey. He wants to know if his wife is falling out of love with him. Oh, Dave, tell me everything. Why do you think she's falling out of love?

We've been married for 25 years. I'm 56 and she's 51.

Okay.

And sex was good, but she's suffering from. Well, she's a little bit overweight, so she's a little self conscious. And she's being tested for fibromyalgia. So her body does hurt a lot. And it just seems that she has absolutely no interest in having sex anymore. And.

I'm just wondering if there's anything I can do, because when we talk about it, she just gets frustrated and pissed off.

Right. Okay. So she said she's. She's kind of out of shape. She's 51.

And so to me, what does this sound? Did you say she's 51 and she's not in great shape and she might have fibromyalgia and all these things. So you guys been together 25 years and she's not really in mood for sex? Dave, here's the thing. I don't think we're talking about love. I think we're talking about the human condition. We're talking about being married, being with someone for 25 years, and she's gone through menopause like the. And she's not feeling great about her body. So I think it's more about figuring out how to connect with her and find out what. What would she need to feel good Again and how, you know, when you get her back on board with, with sex, it's not just about like the frequency. It's more about getting her to remember that she's a sexual person and masturbating and figuring out. Because when women get on board with sex and they're excited about it again, she'll be back. She'll want to do it. So have you talked to her about any of this and let her know that, like how important it is to you?

Yeah, we have. And you know, once I get past all the negativity and I finally get her, like when she's really tired or first thing in the morning.

And she's not really into saying no right away, like don't touch, she'll get into it and she'll really enjoy herself. But she's just so negative right now that can't even get past the jumping off.

Yes, she's depressed. She got put on a bunch of weight and got disease. Like, how's that supposed to make you happy about your day? That's heavy stuff.

Is she getting help for that?

Yeah, we're getting help. And it's been an interesting.

An emotional ride. We have a couple of kids that have special needs and they're getting into their upper teens now. So we've had a very emotional ride. But we've been together and we love each. I truly think we love each other unconditionally.

I know that this is not the answer, but a better diet, I'm not sure about that fibromyalgia, but I feel like there's a lot of plant based diets and a lot of. Even Dr. Drew Penske, who only has meat and eggs and did something where he cured himself. There's a lot of different diets for different kinds of people. And I feel like if she does feel she's overweight and she eats a cleaner diet, at least she would lose more weight. But you might even find that she has a lot more energy and she might not even. She might not be in as much pain from stuff like that. And then there's CBD creams and there's a bunch of other stuff that you can do if you use that Google button.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of stuff that could make things easier for her. Maybe not. She's that not into sex, but at least not in as much pain. That's.

If you help her on her journey, she might need you to help out, nurture and help her figure out the steps to take. And then she'll feel like she has a partner. This. And then she might feel more connected and loving. But I think what Jason is saying, like, we just, you know, help her get through this. It's not an easy time, but I think. Yeah. Okay, Dave.

I think. I think that sounds great. And I have one other question that has to do with the human anatomy. What exactly is in when a woman squirts? Is that urine or is that something else?

Traces of urine. Yeah. Like on another note, on a lighter note, there's traces of urine in it. It's from the perurethral fluids. You find that it's some urine. It's not all urine. But even if it is, I say, so what?

But if you see the ones in porn where it goes flying really far, that's p.

Yeah.

Well, no, I just feel really awesome when I can do that, you know? And she feels that good.

That's great. I think as long as she feels good and you feel good. Doesn't matter what's coming out of it. Just throw some towels down, you know? Or a tarp. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for calling. Keep us posted. I'm here every night. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, and we come back even more with Jason Ellis.

Jason Ellis. You just gotta come stop by here often after your show and talk about everything. But you're busy because you got this still awesome book to promote.

Yeah.

And you are really awesome, Jason. So I love just how even since I've known you and I barely, we've gotten to know each other better. But like you, when I first met you, you just MMA fire, have your show. You're tough. And then you were on my podcast a few years ago, you're like, oh, yeah. And I sometimes get blowjobs in the steam room. And I'm. And sometimes I'm like, okay, good. And you're just so. I know this hasn't been an easy journey for you.

No.

But, you know, I'm getting there. Yeah.

I know a guy that I make out with now. I never used to kiss guys. I know you like that.

Wow. Do you enjoy it?

Yeah, I like making out with him.

What about.

I don't want to just go around making out with everybody now. But, like, it's easier for me to kiss girls. I like kissing girls. I don't think I've ever kissed a girl. I'm like, ew, this isn't working. But most of the time a guy ever tried to kiss me, I feel like I'm like, inappropriately kind of pull away a bit. I've Always felt like. You ever seen that Boondock Saints movie where the guy's a cop and he's gay, but he doesn't really act like one, I don't think.

But I don't know.

Anyway, I just could relate to that movie, I've always thought. Because I very conf. I was always very confused with that stuff. I'm into it, but I. There were certain things that I thought were too much.

Right.

And now from sort of slowing it down. And now I kind of like. I would like to know a guy that I like mentally. He's my friend, and we can hook up whenever my wife thinks it's okay. Instead of.

Because I love this. So this is the thing now with Katie. So in finding a wife that you're both. You're open. Like being monogamous never, you know, made sense to you?

No, not. It's failed. I failed miserably. And I hurt people because of it. So I was content on being single or being with somebody that was gonna be okay with me living that kind of lifestyle. I just wasn't. I have no time for lies anymore. I just don't. I hate myself, right? Like, if things don't get the way that they don't go the way I want, it's only a matter of time. You know, I'm not. I'm. I'm kind of attractive. I'm funny. Someone's gonna want to sleep with me, and I'm gonna do it. I'm not that.

Right.

Yeah. I would rather just go. The hardest thing for me is to say. Cause our deal is you gotta ask first. And sometimes, most of the time, especially with girls, I don't know when a girl's gonna like me. And that's pretty freaking rare these days. And when they do, I'm like, whoa. What? Really? You wanna. What, Wait. I've gotta text my wife and say this is okay. It's like a weird, uncomfortable, inappropriate thing for me to want to do. I'm like, I don't wanna just stop the way this is going and get on the phone with my wife. She's like, who? What are we talking about here? And I gotta break it down. But I've just found that if I. Better than I just do it. If she says no. I'm so lucky these days where with what I can do, it's too much, quite frankly. I get away with absolute murder. I can. She's like, this girl really likes me. Have fun. And she's like, I got my nose things. Getting bought out. So I'm not really that good to you anyway. And I'm like, okay, that's the sweetest thing ever. But I should say, thanks, baby, but I'll probably just come home anyway. But I take it sometimes, because I can.

Because you can do that now. But here's the thing. Okay. So in. In reading your book, it's like, I think. Yeah. You said that it's if you want to be monogamous or that anyone who thinks that they want to sleep with other people and they're married, like, that's just not. It might not be for you to be. When I was 19, I remember thinking, I can't fucking imagine sleeping with one person for the rest of my life. That never seemed like it made any sense. And then through my 20s, I kept dating people. Two years, two years. And I was like. And then I end up cheating. I was like, this does not feel good to me. Am I broke into something wrong with me? Like, why am I a cheater? So then I was like, I'm never gonna commit until. Until I. It actually works for me. And I realize I haven't really committed since then, but I've. I mean, a little bit here and there, but it's been open. Or it's been just because I want to, but the second I don't, I realize I don't want to cheat. So what I'm saying is, do you think. And that wasn't easy. I thought it was crazy. But now more and more people are opening up there then people are just kind of get. I feel like in the last few years, and I've been in this realm for like 15 now, and it was insane. People, like swinging would break up or, or opening it up. People are just insane. Or all swingers have ponytails or all the things that people believed. And now people are thinking, oh, yeah, this can actually work. So you actually are an example of this. You're having a successful non monogamous relationship.

I do want to add though, because I feel like, yeah, it's hard work. I feel like, I feel like I. We stress each other out with this stuff sometimes. Like, I don't like it if a guy's too friendly and texting her all the time, I'll lean over like, what, are you texting that guy again? And now I'm on a little jealous thing. But I, I could. If I went and added up who's fair here. It's. I'm getting away with murder. I should be letting her text anybody she wants. But I'm. I'm protective I'm jealous. And I'm like, that's pretty insulting that you're the. You're the jealous guy who's like, oh, you know what I mean? What's her name? Wants me to hang out with her tonight. That okay with you? It's usually five seconds. Sure.

Yeah. And you're like, who's this guy? Joe?

Yeah. If it was some dude named Joe wanted to hook up with Katie, I would go. Show me photo.

Okay, but here's the thing. Yeah, no, right. Show me photos. I wanna see what does his dick look like. Do you ever do that? Do you have a dick thing or. No. You're pretty confident.

No, I'm all right with that.

Okay, that's good. That's not one of your points. That's not one of your.

Does he have bigger muscles or hair?

He has hair.

Yeah. Cause I don't have hair. And some people, if they lift a lot of weights and they look buffer than me, then maybe I care for like three seconds about that.

Yeah.

But I'm pretty sure I could knock him out, so that's okay.

The thing is, right? As long as I can beat his ass.

Yeah. Don't sleep with anybody tougher than me. That would be tough.

That's it.

I'm joking.

But it still can be hard, though. But the thing is, monogamy is really hard for people. And it's not that non monogamy is for everybody. It's just more like, I love that now people realize they actually have other options if it's not their jam. Diana, 38, in California, wants to comment on open relationships.

Okay.

Hi, Diana, thanks for calling. It's Emily and Jason. L. Is here.

Hi, Emily and Jason. Thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I are. Have been previously married and we were both in monogamous relationships previously before our marriage. And now that we have an open relationship, our marriage is so much more better. And I know that people don't understand that, but we're both just so much happier. And you can just tell, like, in our relationship, that openness just allows us to communicate more. And you also feel a little bit more attractive, you know, with each other. And that flirtatiousness and being able to go out and say, hey, honey, you know, so today I was flirting with, you know, X guy and, you know, it was fun and he can ask questions and we take it home or we go somewhere and take that relationship somewhere else and take it to the next level or have fun. But we find that we have had so much more of A better marriage this time around than we did last year. And we've been married for seven years now.

See, that's. That's really impressive.

And that's easier when you're a little mature, too. I feel like when you get into it when you're young, because it always sounds so glamorous when you're young. Yeah, let's be swingers. I can sleep with you. And the guy's thinking, I can sleep with a bunch of girls. That's all he's thinking.

Exactly.

He's not ready for the other side of that.

Because my husband, him being so confident helps so much, you know, that he's just comfortable and he is okay with, you know, his wife being looked at and, you know, and just makes me look at him like, wow, you're even more sexier.

Right. It keeps that tension going. So you're not going to be one of these couples that get so bored with each other. Kind of keeps you on your toes, like you said. Keeps it exciting, keeps it hot. But you still know you come home to each other. Diana, thanks for calling. I love it. Keep doing you. Awesome. Jason Ellis is Wolfmate on Instagram and Ellis made on Twitter. And you can get his new book, still awesome, which I was riveted last night. I went home. I never do this. They know I don't go home and just read. Too fucking busy and tired and hungry.

It's interesting, Ryan, there's weird stuff in there.

Let's get into it. Because I literally have too. I'm so overwhelmed with my notes. Like. But I like when you talk about. Here's the thing. You talk about the patterns that you have. And for me, there was a big moment at the end when you talk about patterns. You've had relationships and you realize that you. When Katie broke up, you're. You're your wife now, but when you first. I mean, the first year you were dating, she leaves you. She's like, has she says something to you? She says, you shut down, Jason. You've shut down completely, and I'm out of here. And then you had this light bulb moment. You're like, I've heard this before.

Yeah, Exactly.

So for 30 years, maybe, women, high school, you said in high school, women have been saying to you, you shut down. You have this pattern in relationships. And I kind of think we all do, but most of us don't do the work to kind of realize if you hadn't gone to therapy and gone through all these things, you wouldn't have had that lifeboat moment. You could have been going into your 70s, and a woman would be like.

Hey, Jason, it took three generations. So the third time, when the third love of my life said that, and I thought, wait, you're wrong. You are wrong. This is not her. This is for sure you. Because all three of them were not the same. They weren't. I'm not the kind of guy that actually goes there. I don't have a type, you know?

Yeah.

So they're not. They don't have that. All three of them couldn't have anything less in common, but they said the exact same thing. And I'm like, it's you, dude. You're. You do this thing where you. You build resentment and then you switch off until they leave because they're like, I don't. What's the point of even being here? You're not even there. You're not even home anymore.

Exactly. And it's that resentment and then not being able to communicate that resentment, and then convincing yourself of a story then.

And then when she leaves, I realize that. That, you know, this is the person that you wanted to be with for the rest of your life, and you pushed her away because you can't have a conversation.

And then that's when you went back and did the therapy.

I met my. A friend of mine, a dear friend, Joel Madden, who I trust, said that he had met a therapist that had really helped him with his life. And I thought Benji and Joel were really good friends to me, and they had a lot of positive things that I took from them because they were very positive people that had also been through some. Some. Some tough times when they were kids. And I believed them. And I just. And I knew that Katie would not even consider taking me back if I didn't see this particular therapist. So I just was all in, 100%.

And then you had to go in and it was like once a week for a long time. Still is. Right? You're just not done. So let's talk about. Because you actually you were molested. You write about that you were molested as a child by your dad.

Yeah.

Which is devastating.

Yeah.

And, you know, a lot of people are dealing with sexual abuse, sexual trauma, and it really does have an impact. I knocked it out.

I blocked it out my whole life. I took a bunch of crystal meth and acid after a skateboard demo. And then I had an imaginary friend, and the imaginary friend told me in a hotel swimming pool that my father molested me. And I was probably 26 when that happened. And my girlfriend at the time who witnessed that? Told my mom. My mom was like, I thought he forgot that. You know, I thought he'd never remember that. That was when he was, you know, three or four or something. And then they were like, it wasn't your father. It was. It was the neighbor. You got it mixed up because he had red hair. And the next day, I went back to my father's house, and I came out of my bedroom that I only lived there, like, half the time because I was already. I think I was going to America. I'm not sure. But anyway, I. He said. I walked in. He's like, hey, how's it going? I'm like, hey. And he goes, do you think you got molested? I said, yeah, do you think it was me? I was like, nah. He's like, oh, all right. And then I just walked out the door and got on a train and went to the ramp. And then many years later, when I was 40 and I went to rehab and I did some.

What is it, Some thing where they EMDR something. I don't know, where you kind of remember your childhood a little bit. And I started to recall some stuff, and then it wasn't so much that. It was more. I recalled that conversation when I was an adult where he said that. And now I'm a father of two, and I know that if my son said that and said that and told somebody that he thought it was me, it'd be a lot more of a fucking discussion than. Do you think it was me? No, Sounds good. Never bring it up ever again. And then I also found out that the neighbor guy, he went over there and yelled at him. I've seen my dad knock people's teeth out for cutting him off on the freeway. I've seen my dad almost kill people for looking sideways at him, you know? I mean, he used to be a pretty violent guy. And to know that this neighbor supposedly molested me and he just fucking warned that guy. It just. It just didn't add up. And then I saw a doctor that put me on MDMA therapy. You ever heard of that?

Yeah.

So I was reluctant because I used to do a lot of drugs, and I didn't want to. To do those kind of drugs ever again, even though it sounded kind of cool. But I was just like, I don't think you should do ecstasy or MDMA or cocaine. Those things you should just always stay clear of. You're too fucking old, right? So I did it. And then I retraced a bunch of stuff. I could just remember all these things.

While you were on the MDAA with the therapist?

He walked me through it. So it was like two or three hours of hit with me, like, remembering, you know, my father coming in with this heat lamp and, like, being on top of me while I was. Because I would sleep on my stomach, and I just pretended that I was asleep. And then I remembered being underneath my mattress of my own bed with my fingers in the cage stuff in the spring and my toes in it, so my back was off the ground, so I was underneath the mattress. And I see the heat lamp come in again. And when the heater got right up close to me, I just said, please stop. And the heater turned around and went out.

Wow.

And then I started to feel like my father knew that I really didn't want that to happen to me anymore. And he realized that he'd done something really bad. And then I started to feel sorry for him in the same, like, hour or two, realizing he knows he fucked me. Like, he ruined my life, and he had to live with that. And I know that his father probably did it to him. And I'm like, it ends here. You know what I mean? Like, you might have done that to me, but I'm on top of shit now. I didn't fucking die. Didn't kill me, and my kids are fine, and nobody's touching my kids, me and anybody else. And if they did, you'd be dead. You'd be. There's no. There's no. And I knew my father to. I have the same gene. Don't cross us. You know, there's. There's a point we will go that you won't. So I just added all that up and. And thought, I don't need to do any more MDMA therapy to run any more of, like, what could have potentially happened after that. I just know that that's enough. It was really painful to know that it happened, but it's. But I'm better for it now.

Yeah, you had to. What? That's so powerful. I mean, that you actually were able to. I've had that in some EMDR therapy, which is like, trauma therapy. I've remembered shit that I didn't remember before. And you're like, but you were. Yeah, we just. It's so. So many of us are walking around, so just numb with whatever we can. I think you described that moment. You're like, I left after my dad's that day. And you're like, I stuffed it down as far as it would go. And I think a lot of us walk around, especially with things like trauma, sexual trauma, and we just. Where there's nowhere to safe, like, where would we go? And then we wonder why we have challenges sexually.

Right. There's a lot of reasons. I felt like I didn't get tough enough to have to. My body didn't let me know until I was tough enough to handle it. Yeah, that's my theory on. I felt my body was like, dude, you don't. You're. When you were a pro skateboarder, flying around the world, getting paid to ride a skateboard. We don't need to tell you this right now. You need to, like, maybe get a wife, get a divorce, have a kid, and then we'll tell you about what your dad really did to you.

I like the way of looking at that. It's true. But that's. And then you also went and did ayahuasca Musca therapy.

Yes, I got off antidepressants because of that. Because I was on antidepressants after the divorce. I really tried to hide from doing those. And the doctor, I said, well, I did it for a year. Can I get off it now? He's like, why do you want to get off it?

Yeah.

I'm like, because I don't want to be on antidepressants. Is that not a good enough argument? He's like, you know, they don't do anything to you. They don't hurt you. And I'm like, I just got this feeling like you're spinning at me, right? And now I'm. And then he told me the statistics of when you get off antidepressants, the stats of you getting back on them, it's very high. It's almost not worth it. And I'm like, okay, this guy's making me want to fight it. And then I've got friends from on it, Aubrey Marcus, and I've always heard about their ayahuasca journeys, but I was terrified. I'm like, wait, you see death, you die. I don't want to fucking die, you hippie. Like, you've lost your minds. But then with hearing about the people, anxiety, depression, people that were far more worse off than me that went to this thing and did it and were cured.

Cured.

And I just thought, you know what?

What?

I'm just gonna give it a go.

Wow.

And it worked.

When did you do it? How long ago?

It was about a year ago now, I think. But I have been off the meds for over a year, and I've never been happier in my whole life. And I got twice my energy back. I started training. That's why I had a couple fights again. I got like I could train five days a week and not be so tired that I would get run down and feel sick. Now I have energy back.

That's amazing this story but well, we need to talk about that offline. I wanna go try all these drug therapies cause you gotta try everything once I've tried everything.

I don't know about everything, but yeah, I feel like these ones are really groundbreaking stuff.

Okay. Well you're doing great work and your book is so inspiring and real and authentic. Jason Ellis, still awesome. Check out his book@jason ellisbook.com.

Thank you all and thanks to my awesome team. Ken, Kristen, Alisa, producer Jamie and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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