Strap-On Sex & Kinky Recs with Zoe Ligon

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Sex toys are treated like replacements for people or like things that are gonna emasculate somebody. And I'm like, nobody feels emasculated when you use a fork to eat. Nobody feels emasculated when you use a power drill to construct something.

And then my friends were like, don't you masturbate? And I was like, what the fuck is that? I don't. I never even thought about it.

It's such a clunky word too. And when you have a vulva, there's not like any. Not that many cute words for it. No, I mean, I say jacking off, right? Like I've claimed that word for myself.

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily on today's show, I'm joined by sex educator Zoe Ligon. And we're talking about God so much on this show. From sexual mental health to chastity to dildos. Trust me, this show is chock full. Topics include why it's okay to take a break from dating, sex or masturbation, because we could all use one once in A while. Take dildos. There's so many different types. So how do you find the right one for you? So how do you have fun getting into new kinks and exploring with your new partner? And the latest and greatest in the world of sex tech. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that block our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them. In a bygone day. Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken.

He thinks you're kind of cute. A girl's gotta have her standards.

Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage.

Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh, my God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good. Well, you know, Emily's not the kind.

Of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com. you're gonna love our. I know it. And you can find me on SiriusXM radio. I am there Monday through Friday, 5 to 7pm Pacific on Stars 109. And it is such a good time. And if you don't have Sirius XM, you can still call in with your questions. 889-478277. And if you want a free trial, you can go to sexwithemily.com sxm. As always, you can find us on all social media. It's exwithemily across the board. Alright, guys, I hope you enjoy this show with Zoe Ligon. Welcome back, Zoe, to the show. We're just gonna start.

Thank you so much.

I love seeing you. Okay. Last time we were here, we talked about the unrealistic parts of porn. A myriad of sex toys. Yeah, that were both from Michigan. A lot of the stuff we've gone through and so what? What since then? It's been a year. You. I feel like I love your Instagram. How can people find you on your Instagram?

I'm at Thongria. That's my personal account. But the sex toy store that I own and run is Shop Spectrum Boutique.

Shop Spectrum Boutique. Check that out. So it's. It's so such a great mix of everything. The toys, the who you are, what you're going through. It's very real and vulnerable, everything that you're putting out there. So what has happened in the last year? Do you feel like there's Been any shifts. Let's talk with our industry. Any shifts in sex that you've seen or with toys or products or anything happening?

There are so many new innovative things. And when people talk about sex, tech, innovation, I feel that my previous assumption was like, oh, something robotic, something app compatible. But I think that the coolest innovations are things that are actually non motorized and just like really ingenious shapes.

Tell me.

The New York toy collective Jack is a two in one masturbation sleeve and packer. So it's like, you know how there's those packing penises that you can wear to get a bulge? They created a super soft silicone one that is also a stroker. So it's like a realistic phallus that also is a stroker. And there's like other strokers out there. Most of them are elastomer and not silicone and none of them look like a penis.

Right.

So just great for gender affirmation. It's hard to. I'm like, why are more people making silicone strokers? Because you can get silicone that soft safely these days.

Yeah, I don't know why. So you're saying it could be in your pant, you could have it as your packer. Yeah. But then you're like, oh, and now it's time to masturbate.

Exactly.

It's there already. I love a twofer. I love things that work for all.

I do too.

Okay, so seems like there's definitely more products and companies run by women, made for women, by women. A lot of the CBD th stuff, products. Like last year at the show, there was more. What do you think?

I think that CBD is like. It's interesting that the sex industry has taken CBD under its wing because I have noticed a lot of crossover people who used to work in the cannabis industry now getting into the sex industry. There's definitely like a nice friendship between the two.

I'm surprised. First of all, sex and drugs, like why didn't happen sooner but I guess can't because it's just becoming legal everywhere.

I don't even consider cannabis a drug at this point. It's like my daily medicine as a card carrying Michigander.

Right. Exactly. How have you found it helps or others maybe you hear from too for sex like the lubes and even just anxiety.

I personally use the forea awaken the most. I just like the smell of it and I'm not usually like a scent and fragrance person, but it's pretty mild.

Makes.

I hate when people use terms like it's going to change your orgasm because everybody's experience of it is so different.

Right.

But for me, it just feels like the sensations in my G spot or just all of the sensations feel more easily accessible. I have a really hard time feeling like connected to my body and staying present, especially during sex. It's really easy to let your mind wander when you don't feel totally comfortable in your body. And I'm sure we're going to get deeper into this. But like, as a very trauma centric educator at the moment, just because I've been unpacking so much childhood and sexual trauma that it's like, okay, I really need things to get me focusing on what I want to be focusing on.

Right.

Another thing I oddly I'm really into right now is feather ticklers.

Really?

Yeah. It's something that I've sold for years now and just been like, it's great. It arouses.

Exactly, Exactly.

No, I love feather ticklers. I want to like make a deluxe line of feather ticklers because I hate how they're all so inexpensive and fall apart really easily.

They do. Or you get some drags in your lube and there it goes like some soggy feather tickler. That doesn't feel good.

It's like, yeah, it's like body asmr.

Yeah.

And I just feel really numb in my body a lot. It sucks. And it's is a different type of stimulation that isn't like touch, but really, you know, it sends. That gives me the tingles as ASMR does so.

But I love asmr. Just learning what that is too. Recently I did not know it's like, how do you. It's sent. It's the sound.

Yeah.

An auditory or sometimes visual like now people are like feelings and auditory. Visual things can set it off. But it's just the sensation of tingles going down your spine. And it's one of those feelings that you know when you feel it and otherwise you don't. I discovered that I was like asmr sensitive when I went to the eye doctor growing up because he'd be looking in my. He'd be looking in my eye, be like, so how school?

Right.

I'd be like, oh, I'm so uncomfortable.

That's such a good one. Exactly. That's so funny. Okay, wait, so tickler. So tell me, like, would it be if you did start a line of tick, would it be like different size feathers or you just like, is it.

Just maybe one that could cover more surface area? Yeah, I mean, I guess I Don't like the idea that feathers come from animals. But like, a large. If we could maybe.

Found it on the ground.

Yeah, like, found on the ground feathers, but yeah, maybe just more surface area, better adhesives. I don't know.

Tell me how you use the feather. Because that's. Because you're right. And all the things you're saying. I'm like, by the. Get this feather tickler. It's really cool for center, but let's go deeper. Tell me about an experience that you've had with the feather tickler.

Oh, yes, I did Midori's Forte Femme in San Francisco last August, I believe. And in her goodie bag, there were two feather ticklers, you know, And I'm like, okay, well, I sell these. You know, like, I'll take them anyway.

I'll give it to a friend.

And then my boyfriend opened. My boyfriend was with me in San Francisco, and we, like, open up the bag and, like, he just ignores everything else, and he's just like, these. I love them. And then it's literally like I just lay down on the bed like I'm on an examination table. Just, like, you know, plopped there naked. And, you know, he can use two at once or one at once, but he'll just like. It's like a massage, but with feathers. And it's, like, not inherently sexual.

No, but you have the erogenous zones, and you're tickling them all over your body. I mean, that's.

I know. And it's also not as strenuous as giving somebody a massage. So I feel like it's a really sweet way that we connect, even if we're not going to, like, have any other type of intercourse, but we just want to be, like, intimate.

I love that.

It's like intimacy over sex for me these days. Not that sex isn't part of it.

No. When you say sex, we're talking intercourse. And we are on this, right? We're on the same page that, like, the fact that it's all defined by just penis and vagina sex, which is educators we talk about, but really, like, I. All the time. So many of the questions we get asked and in life are like, what's wrong with me? Because I can't orgasm during intercourse. My penis is getting softer. Then don't have intercourse. Guess what? There's so many other things on the table. Everyone, let's get on board with that. If I have any mission, right? Like, what else is on the table? And then also just letting people are just. And you realize every Day they're shocked. People don't realize that we somehow feel like we fail if the orgasm doesn't come from intercourse. If you kind of had sex or virginity is just penetration. So the whole thing is like insane to me because there is just dragging feathers. And who knows if you got a feather tickler or you got something else might lead to sex. More likely to than just making out your partner and sticking it in or doing whatever, which is something that doesn't work for many people.

No, I mean, and so many people learned how to stimulate themselves with humping a pillow or like an armchair or whatever. How did you learn sex toys?

Really? That was the first thing you got? Found a sex toy.

I had partnered sex for five years before I even dreamt of masturbating. It's so weird to think back on what that mental block was. But I think it's again, one of those blocked off trauma areas where it's like, I don't want to feel my own body with my own hands for whatever reason. So I needed, and I still at present need a tool that I can use to interact with my body. And that is great. That's. That's lovely for me. But it's like sex toys are treated like replacements for people or like things that are gonna emasculate somebody. And I'm like, nobody feels emasculated when you use a fork to eat. Nobody feels emasculated when you use a power drill to construct something. So why is this extension of your hand so different from any other appliance?

Exactly. So what do you say to that when people are like, why? I don't need a toy? We don't need that. Or it's. Or it does feel like it's an affront to my masculinity. People all the time are like, why do I need a toy? Like, I had this conversation three times already today, three different interviews. So I just wanted to hear what you say.

I.

It probably depends who you're talking to.

Yeah, it's like it depends on the tone of voice so much as. Well. First of all, you don't have to use toys, of course, but if you want to use something and you are afraid about bruising somebody else's ego, why are you prioritizing somebody else's needs before your own? I think the way it comes up for me the most is like, I want a sex toy, but something that's like, really inoffensive so that my boyfriend won't have a problem with it. And it's, you Know, it's generally the. The male partner who is the person of concern. Although it's totally a double standard when it comes to toys for penises. How that is stigmatized as being, you know, weird and creepy.

Exactly. I don't need that. I got hand. What do I need it for? But it's like, just try it. Because sex is this beautiful sensory experience. Sensory experience that we're so limited. Like, we just only see, we. We all just. Many of us just scratch the surface of what. So what if you did like the stroker? How cool would that be?

Yeah. I am honestly just getting so excited to get older and feel even more comfortable in my body. I'm 27. I feel like my 20s are just like struggling, clawing my way out of adolescence. I really just want to be an older person with. With the life experience behind me to make me confident enough to.

Not be this people pleaser who will get all walked over just to like, keep the peace. Or like, I'm this person who will just like be like, oh, like you decide things. And it's like I've deprived myself of this autonomy to the point where I have a hard time even figuring out what my actual needs are.

Yeah.

And then if you can't communicate that to somebody, like, how can you expect a partner to just figure everything out for you?

Right.

So that's what is so exciting about sex education for me is that I truly feel like I learn alongside everybody else. And even if it's a lesson I've already learned, I want to continuously relearn the lesson.

Yeah.

It's just what my brain gets off on.

Yeah. It's true. I think that you're always the teacher and the student. Right. I think I'm, you know, you're never done learning, and I'm learning. I can never hear things enough. Sometimes it's like. And every time you hear, it's like reading your favorite book. When you go back and read it again, there's always like new things in it. So it's like, it's the same thing about this, this kind of work we. Because it hits you at different points in your life. But also, like, the feather ticker is a great example I've heard about now I can't wait to go home. Like, I've got six of them next to my bed and they're just sitting there. I know what they are. And maybe I've tried it years ago, but it always lands differently. If you're with different partners, you're in different space. I want to Go back to something you said about not masturbating. So this is something that I just came up with this year because I've been doing some trauma work as well. It was more like emotional trauma work around it. But any kind of trauma is all trauma.

A lot of mine's emotional.

Emotional too. And I. And I always thought to myself, why did. I didn't masturbate either. I was having sex for four or five years before I even heard of masturbation, literally. So I was like, in college, I must have been like, 21. I was like, okay, guys, what is the big deal about sex? Like, my boyfriend comes in from Michigan State pounding away at me. I was in Michigan.

I'm like, I.

Know how to pounding.

They don't know what, 18, 19.

No.

And then my friends were like, don't you masturbate? And I was like, what the fuck is that? I don't. I never even thought about it.

It's such a clunky word, too. And when you have a vulva, there's not like any. Not that many cute words for it.

No.

I mean, I say jacking off, right? Like, I've claimed that word for myself.

Good, right? It's better than masturbation. I don't even. Like. There's so many words I don't love around sex. I just want cunnilingus. I just. I wanna change a lot of the words, a lot of the phrasing around sex. Even just rebranding sex overall.

I know.

So anyway, what I realized was I was like. Well, then I got mad. I was like, why didn't anyone tell me about it? And then. Then you hear all the stories about women who were, like, riding a horse at eight or a bike and. Or they were in the shower and they had an orgasm at nine and they've known. I was like, well, why didn't I ever think about it? And then I realized I think I had a lot of anxiety and trauma going up, that there was no. I was like. Probably went to bed every night, like, wound up in a ball that I wasn't like, let me explore. Let me feel. So same thing for me that sex was often very like. I. It wasn't until I started masturbating, buying toys, that I actually learned to feel stuff during sex. And then. Have you done, like, trauma therapy at all? Have you done, like, emdr? Are you doing talk therapy?

I haven't done that. I'm in talk therapy. I have tried various energy work things, and I'm going to try more things and it's funny because I feel like I always need to preface that by saying, like, I was raised with a lot of like, woo woo stuff. Chinese medicine, homeopathy. You know, my mom had macrobiotic food for me. I, you know, the first meat I ate was a rabbit meat. Like just alternative lifestyle in the early 90s. So it's funny because my therapist was like, you know, it's okay if you don't want to try this out, but sometimes energy work really helps people. But I also know it's a trigger for you potentially.

Oh, I get that.

I was like, oh, I'm down to try more stuff. If you have a person you really want to recommend to me, I would.

Recommend it just because it's more like it's science. It's like scientifically proven to help people with trauma. The way it works in your brain, it's not. I thought it was wooey too, but it's not wooey. It's like you basically go through your reprocesses the way your brain is and that when using these little buzzers, it's funny, the little vibrators you hold, not real vibrators, but they're so it's interesting to get to learn your body, but I think whether you've trauma or not, for so many women, we are shut down and we're not. So we started this conversation talking about like marijuana. Marijuana or weed or how can pot. How pot with my Michigan accent, you know, like using things like that to get into the mood and to. And that's why I love like sensory play or vibrators or toys. Because so many of us are still under the belief that. And I get it now because with the serious show too, it's like callers from all over the states.

That's so cool.

It's really cool. It's really cool. And it's like, oh, yeah, you're. You're like me, but you're 40, you're 50 now, and you're in Michigan still or Ohio or anywhere. Florida. You're even in California, parts of California. And it's still like everything else. But penetrative sex is, is, is wrong. And I'm not having pleasure and I've never had pleasure. And then just trying to get people into like just experimenting and try and opening up. Because a lot of us, like I said, whether time or not, we're still shut down and we haven't had orgasms and we haven't had, you know, what kind of questions are you getting asked most? We feel like there's trends here that happen. And I feel like a lot of it is just about I can't focus during sex, I'm no longer. I'm not mindful.

I can't have orgasms. And a lot more pegging questions lately.

Those two, I have noticed especially since I've started doing my own, like, sex adjacent podcast called Hot Brain with my boyfriend.

Hot Brain with my boyfriend.

It's great because he is not in the sex industry. So I love hearing his impressions of all the questions we get asked because I'm, like, immune to everything at this point. And he was, like, picking up on the fact that so many questions are asking about asexuality. And interesting. I think that. I mean, we know that roughly 1% of the population is asexual. And it's also very interesting because I made a post there's like a butt plug that blush came out with that had the colors of the asexual pride flag. And I posted that. And it was so interesting how there was a group of asexual folks who were like, this is so awesome. I love that there's, like, asexual pride flag colors on a butt plug and all of that.

Asexual pride colors on a butt plug is like, my favorite sex.

But then you might also say, okay, asexual. Why would there be a butt plug with the asexual pride flag colors? Pleasure is a different thing from sexuality. And it actually started a controversy in the comments because there were a lot of asexual people who were like, I like. Who don't enjoy pleasure whatsoever. And they were like, don't misrepresent asexuals as people who, you know, want to use a butt plug. And, you know, I wasn't making a statement one way or the other, but it was interesting to see asexual folks who do enjoy stimulation, whether it's with themselves or with a partner they're romantically attracted to. And then the people who are just like, this is misrepresentation. And I think everybody's correct. Like, you get to choose what it.

Means to you with anything. Right. You're just, like, trying to show. So you get a lot of asexuals. So is it people saying, I'm, I think I'm asexual. Do you think I am? Because I think people think they are because they don't desire sex.

Exactly.

But they're not.

Yeah. You don't have an entire sex life and then not have sex, and suddenly you're asexual. It's. I mean, another controversial thing is Whether there is a spectrum. I think that the, you know, demisexuality, like asexuality and sexuality, just like romantic attraction, is a spectrum. But again, in this butt plug debacle.

Butt plug, part of what is our business, is there a butt bug debacle? And it's a real debacle.

Again, there was like people who were like, I'm asexual and there's no such thing as a spectrum. You're misrepresented. It was just so. I mean, it was fascinating to me as somebody who is sexual, but also, you know, is trying to do their best to educate, you know, from a third person standpoint.

Yeah, very interesting stuff. But I do think that we are in a particularly intense time to be sexually active right now. Not just because of what is socially and politically happening. I think that people are addressing trauma more. I think that.

Just generally when your brain is more unpacking of things in the world around you and there's more language and awareness around sexual dynamics, it feels a lot more scary to dive back in with that self awareness of sexuality. So sometimes just the education itself makes us want to take a step back, to recalibrate. Like, I think the trend for me is like, you know, being a sex educator isn't like I'm having this wild and crazy sex life or like, I'm even good at sex. You don't know if I'm good at sex. I might be terrible at it.

Right? Exactly.

I mean, I like to think I know, you know, the things I could do to make it better.

But like, I love how open you are too. Right, Exactly. Like, I know how to get there. But since we don't want sex, I'm not having sex all the time. At all.

No.

In fact, I've been on this little break for about like six, seven months.

Hell yeah.

It's literally. I don't know if I've gone this long before, but I was like, I'm so not interested. I was like, I've been in this. People like, well, is it like you're sick of it? People was like, do you get sick of talking about sex because you having sex? Because you talk about it all the time. I'm like, chefs still eat, right? But right now I've just been. I'm not even. I don't think I'm asexual. But no, I've just, like I said, working on other things and friends and family. But it's funny, all those things that go out there about. I love that and I love that you do A great job of this on your Instagram. And I have not listened to your Hot Brain podcast yet.

But I'm sure I never, like, make my friends listen to it. You know what I mean? I'm never like, why didn't you listen to my podcast, Emily?

I don't assume that anybody listens. And when my friends do, I'm shocked.

That's how I feel.

I'm like, oh, my God, thanks. I would. I'm not a pusher.

Yeah.

I'm like, you can listen or not. We're friends before and after. I'm not pushing my stuff onto you.

I think it's interesting how sex breaks are so relative because I've. I have friends who are like, it's been three days. And then my friends who haven't had sex for years are just like, please give me a break.

Exactly. Right. No, it's right. People are like, oh, it's been a month, it's been whatever. But it was just like, yeah, I wasn't feeling it. You know, at this point, what I love is your Instagram that you are so open about your confidence. And even though you're not like a picture you post, you're like, I know usually I'll post pictures of my tummy looking flatter, but this is how I am and turning around. And I think, first time, you're a beautiful woman and smart and just to be like, this is who I really am and in all the different poses and faces. And how would you explain that to you? Was it through posting things or through just being you that help with the confidence? Or have you always had this confidence? And I get. It's all like up and down every day.

Confidence is so different than self esteem. Like, do I have confidence? Yes. Do I have self esteem? I'm working on it.

Right. And it's such a good point. Let's talk about that for a minute.

I think it's interesting too, because I think the way I worded that post specifically about my stomach, I didn't use any words like fat or body positivity, but I still had a lot of people saying, you know, body positivity isn't for thin women. And I completely recognize that it wasn't created by and for people who look like me, but. But at the same time, you just never know what's going on in somebody's brain. You can't look at someone's body and know if they have an eating disorder or not. But it was a great learning experience for me as well. I love when people are Correcting me on stuff like that. But the truth of the matter is that my entire life I've had people walk up to me, be like, congratulations on your baby. And like to have never say that.

To anyone at all.

Never do. And. And just having glimpses of the way the outside world would look at me.

I guess I didn't. I wasn't born feeling uncomfortable in my skin, but also I was like a studio dance student for a decade. And being the tallest girl who's also the largest in your class, like, I was always, you know, stuck in the back. Cause I was so big, you know, quote unquote, relative to every other girl in the class. So it's like, it's really society reinforcing these messages. But God, it really is so much about, like, needing to take a step back from clothes and makeup and beauty and all the messages we're sent. Like, even just landing in la, leaving Detroit. And like, I went to a restaurant and I was genuinely just like, where the fuck am I?

Right?

You can. I mean, like, I think I'm starting to learn about.

Because all the beauty or the.

Showy.

Or whatever, like fillers.

Oh, yeah. That.

The looking surgery, which, like, I'm not here to say whether that's right for you or not, but that's just not in Michigan. It's just not in Michigan.

It's not in Michigan.

It's not.

When I moved to LA from Michigan, it was from San Francisco. Well, actually it wasn't in San Francisco either, to be honest. But when I moved here, I was like, oh, I didn't realize everyone's breasts are fake or everyone. It's just a different. Zero judgment. But it's almost like, whoa. Like, where. Honestly, it's jarring.

The closer I feel like my body is to the supposed standard of what society thinks beauty is, the less good I feel about myself. Interesting. And some of the most confident times I've been are, you know, when I maybe was less like that social norm.

So explain that for a minute. What do you think that is?

I think it's just this preoccupation, like so many other things that we use to distract ourselves. It's like if we can focus on perfecting this external shell of ours, it's a really convenient distraction from what's going on inside of our hearts and our minds.

Right.

I'd rather be worrying about the way I look than my childhood trauma.

Right.

And I don't think that's why everybody.

But you're saying, though, the time for you that you feel the best, though, is when you're not worrying about your body so great, which is so like. But it's just getting people to pry themselves away from that. Like, you'll be okay actually when you focus on other things. But you're so right. It's about this. When you're always striving to the outset for perfection. It's about control. Right. Which doesn't really.

I've honestly learned a lot about that from my boyfriend because he feels like one of the most upsetting things for him is when people are basing their opinion of somebody on very, like, vain external factors. And he's really kind of made me recognize how much I still have to undo. Like, you know, my impressions of, like, people, you know, like, pretty privileged things are, like, just putting too much importance. It's not that, like, oh, disregard aesthetic in the world altogether, but just putting so much of an emphasis on, like, humans having any, like, connecting human worth at all to an image is so sad and damaging for everybody.

But he's helped you realize that through. Through just seeing how you. That you're doing it or just his opinion. Because I feel like you have such a distinct. And I'm talking about your, your Instagram or your. The image.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I definitely don't have this stuff figured out at all. But also unpacking my own understanding of, like, how I need to keep and maintain my body. I mean, now I have a short haircut and I love my short hair.

Oh, my God, I love it.

But it was definitely. I knew going from boob length hair to a pixie cut, it was going to be a challenge for me in feeling connected to my femininity, which is, again, bullshit, because femme ness has nothing to do with the length of your hair. But being like, oh, this is my security blanket and I'm gonna rip off my security blanket.

So brave.

And you know, like, I think it is.

I did it last year, I was like, this year, I was like, I came in my shower, I was like, I have short hair. I don't feel great. Like, I was like, ugh. It's true, though. It's a thing for women too. When you don't have it, how do you still feel pretty? And then it. Then you realize I still. It's such a good exercise. And you're just like, let it go. It doesn't take long. But you're like, okay, I'm still myself. I'm still carrying myself. It really doesn't matter. Everyone sees me that way. But there's something about hair. Yeah.

And it's like, I think it's also just getting a little bit older and having a better, like, don't fuck with me face. But I've also had this realization that, like, I'm not being like catcalled as much, which I'm very happy about. But I'm also like, I'm not getting all the unsolicited attention I used to get when I was younger. And I think really wanting to draw attention with my body. And there's nothing wrong with that, but it was a double edged sword of like, I want to like, I love attention. Let's be real. Every human being wants attention. But like, it's so funny.

I know what you're talking about. No, dude, I'm there. I'm there. I'm like, I used to hate it. I got so much attention all the time from. And I was like, it's too much, like wherever I went.

And then people are like, oh, well, why are you complaining? At least people like you. You're gonna miss it when you're older. That's the thing cat callers would say to me too. Well, you're gonna miss it one day, right?

And then you stop. Well, and then it stops. And then you're like, okay. Am I not? No. But then you're like, okay. Or days when you just don't feel. You're like, I haven't gotten cat called at all. What does it mean about me? It's just messed up.

And they programmed you.

Who doesn't love attention? It's that whole thing. Of course, we do have a show called Sex with Emily. But I realized, well, I started it 14 years ago, but I was like, I think, I think congratulations. 14 years.

Oh my God.

Yeah, I know, it's a lot. Thank you.

So cool.

It was funny cause I always was having about men and attention. And then once I started the show, I got a lot of attention. I think I, like, finally was like, I. And then the show also gave me more confidence just in my, you know, to be. Not only to be an educator, but then to be a businesswoman. All these things. All right, guys, we're gonna take a quick break. And we come back even more. Zoe.

Confidence is something that we can like foster and cultivate and grow and like create. But self esteem is so weird.

Let's talk about the difference. I haven't. I mean, I know it intellectually, but I haven't really thought about, like, because there's the fault. Like, I think I've always been confident to do Things and take on the world. Like, I have been. I don't feel like. I feel like I can do anything. But I do struggle with self esteem. And I think some days it's better, some days it's off. But I do work on it. And I've had to do that through positive affirmations. Like, not in, like, I am great. I can do everything. But truly, like, meditation, having things around my house that help me talking, just getting to toxic people or anyone who's gonna get out of my life. And having people in my life who do help me, not in a false way, but, you know, like, build me up. Or my staff has to do with, like, was that good? Was that a good show? Was it after 14 years? So there's a part of me that's like, come on, Emily. Really, are we really doing this?

But objective input to an extent.

Objective input.

I think something my boyfriend, Mark, his name. I'll say it uses his name.

Marks. Your podcast.

Yeah. He'll be like, what are you trying to prove to people? Seems like you're trying to prove something. Or he'll say that about other people. It's like, yeah, they're really trying to prove something to somebody. Like when somebody comes in just being like, with a presence that feels very much for other people and not for themselves. Like, I'm trying to convince the external world that I am valid and worthy because I don't feel that way inside. And he had said that to me for so long, and it was only recently that I was just like, oh, my God. The key is not trying to prove anything to anybody else other than myself.

If I feel good about me and what I'm doing, then who cares?

Exactly. And you get there. It feels like you're doing such good work.

Yeah. But I think that everybody has a struggle with both confidence and self esteem.

It's true. It's really true. But I think, well, first of all, just admitting that you have a problem, that you have a challenge around it, just knowing that we all do. And then there was Instagram. It is. It is totally realistic. And even for men, too. How do they get their confidence up? Is it a rewiring from childhood? Is a lot of it because something happened and we didn't feel great? And how do you continually.

It's so much about socialization and, you know, how are you socialized? And what lessons did you pick up at a very, very early age that don't serve you anymore?

And realizing and checking, going, okay, that is something that I heard from my family. Or my religious affiliation. And now, oh, yeah, Maybe that's not so true to me anymore. And you get to decide at every age to take. To take a look. Or every time in your life when you're like, where is this? If we can just learn to do it on our own, and you have a great partner. Sounds like your boyfriend's great. Is he here?

No, he's not. He's back in Michigan.

So how is it? I want to ask you something that everyone asks me. I know you've been friends with him for a while, but truly, do you feel like there was a certain expectation when you guys were having sex finally, that, like, whoa, Zoe's got the sex toys and the thing and the boutique.

Definitely. Well, relative to other. Relative to other relationships, definitely not. Because.

He was just built up on, like, common interests and an emotional bond. Like, for me, the biggest moment was talking about the issues I had emotionally and then being like, here's a book. I'm reading about it. And then he, like, went out and got the book and read it himself. I didn't ask him to. So it's like, that type of stuff that I get for.

That's hot for me too. A guy who's gonna get into my stuff with me and he's in therapy and he wants to do the work is really hot. But then also making sure it doesn't go into, like, a codependent. And it's been another side of it.

And that line is.

It's a very tricky line. But I think in some ways, we are. There is a healthy codependence, and then there's unhealthy, and then it's always a line. And as long as you know what it is to keep checking in with it, because I've been down that road too. I feel like I've always been going through stuff which has made me who I am, but then having people that aren't just, like, living for my stuff, but they're helping me through it in a way that's healthy, is a whole thing. But I'm glad that you're with them. It seems like you do seem that you are calmer. Not calmer, but more confidence, I want to say. Or energy. That's just different.

It's weird to not to be as sexually monogamous as I have been for this long. That is weird.

So now you are sexually monogamous.

It's like there is. We're monogamish.

Right?

But, you know, for all intents and purposes, like, I'm learning so much more about myself through being essentially monogamous than I have ever learned before because so many things are coming up for me.

Like, would you want. Because I always say that you do your best work, I think, in relationships, for sure. So what kind of things around sex maybe have you learned in the last year?

Yeah, that sex was a hundred percent a trauma, distraction, tool. And while I enjoyed a lot of the sex I had, it's so much easier to not think about your uncomfortable feelings about X, Y and Z when you're like, knee deep in a sensory experience and like.

Feeling infatuated with a new person. And like, all those intense feelings that come with a new hookup, a new endeavor. And like, it is really dehumanizing for the people that I was having sex with. I feel like I probably passed up a lot of amazing humans because I was just trying to, again, focus on the external factors. What do they do? What's their dick like, how do they talk to me? Like, who are they friends with? And like, Like, I don't think I was that exaggerated.

We could all wrap it.

Exactly. It's like, who cares? Who cares how somebody dresses, how or whatever, you know, I mean, clearly you want to get along with somebody, but.

Are you saying that now the sex with your boyfriend is more intimate or it's more connected?

I'm like, did I ever have intimate sex? Or was it all just like.

Was it all just like, experience it just. Yeah, take yourself away from it, but without the emotion, because you could. You didn't have access to it maybe at that point, but through the work you've been doing and then having this wonderful man come into your life, trying.

To have sex like a porn star, you know, and not. Which is cool, but definitely trying to be like, I've got tricks.

Right, Exactly.

Instead of like, let's have our hearts bond.

Which sounds like, not sexy, but it is actually. I get it. The depth to me, I crave that, but I don't think I always did. But what about porn and sex? Having sex, like, I fucking find it so fascinating. There's always. I feel like. And this is where the difference I've seen even in the last year, and I don't. And I feel like there are. It's no but that porn. And I'm always like, I'm cool, I'm porn. Like, use it moderation if it's for the right things and not for like, that you don't want to meet people and leave your house. And now you can no longer get an erection because of all the porn. But I do feel like it is becoming more and more of a problem, especially for people who grew up with it. Yeah, I just feel like it's maybe because my friends have kids who are now in that age, like 13, 14 or even 18, and they're like, oh, they, they don't want to leave the house, they don't want to meet anybody else. There's just. And they're just. Or my friends were having sex with women or men, they're like, oh, they're just acting like it's important or they're choking without consent. Like all these things that it's like, I don't know what. I feel like there's like a kind of a crisis around it right now. We have to unlearn all this. I don't know what to do about it. I mean you're doing education, I'm doing education. But do you see that? It's more so lately. Have you felt that?

Yeah, it's weird hear like literally NPR addressing it but not having any sex educators there to shed some light on how we can handle it. Because they're just like here's the problem.

And hate when they do that. But I think the CNN thing about sex, like here's all the problems with sex in the world, but what's the solutions?

If we were just able to talk about sex education, if, if parents felt like they had the tools to be like here's some age appropriate ways I can check in with my kid if they have encountered porn or how I, how I them if they've seen anything they need to talk about or get, you know, just get them the resources that are age appropriate.

That's what we need to do.

Because if you're. They're going to see it. So the solution is not removing devices or putting protection, the ad block, whatever, doesn't work. Yeah. Have a conversation about it. No parent wants to do that. Because we live in a society that like the parent is so uncomfortable with sex that they're not going to be able to help them their child out at all.

Exactly. So we gotta educate that few gifted.

Parents perhaps can navigate it without any education. But it's like I don't blame parents for not knowing how to handle it, but also like the resources are out there and nobody's talking about them.

But what are the best resources you think for parents right now that you think exist?

I think just being aware of the reality of it. I don't in a non fear mongering way. It's hard because it's like we are at this point where we understand it's a problem and we don't have like a universal, accessible way to talk or to be educated about it. I'm hoping that there are some books, parenting books written about it. I'm sure I brought this up.

We're working on it. Yeah, no, we're working on it. But I just feel like the more I mean, in some there. Because then I want to move on. I gotta talk to you about some toys here that Diane talked about. I just think if parents admit that this is weird for me. No one ever talked to me about it. And I don't even really know how to talk to you about it. Son, daughter. But I want to keep it open. This is not a one time conversation. If you see anything that's uncomfortable, let me know. Or let me show you this scene I just saw in this TV show that's kind of reminding me, like telling them stories about it or showing them examples or if there's an article in the paper about something like, oh, this reminds me of. And then using that as a teachable moment. Because they're everywhere.

Yeah, well, it's like there's sex, sexual ads everywhere. I mean, truly the media is like pumped up with sex. And then we're like, but sex in this other format is a completely different story. And like, obviously it's different, but I mean, without being an educator who specifically knows how to talk to kids, I would just be like, like, look at this crazy billboard. Like, isn't it, you know, like, I'd be like, what do you think about that?

Exactly.

Like, have them. There's ways you can prompt kids without like being their friend in a weird way.

But that's the other thing, you know, like, hey, tell me if you get a blow job.

Also not being like a dictator.

There was something I saw the other day. They were talking about how it was like a scene in a TV show and the mom said she was watching with her teenage daughter and said, so did you see how these. This person's treating this young woman here and maybe their high school relationship? Yeah, I don't. You know, that doesn't look like it's very healthy. Like, how would you feel if a boy treated you like that? Because there's. And then like, and then just using it like you're already watching the show instead of being like, don't watch it, or pretending that scene isn't happening. So I thought that was just a really good advice to parents to look around you every day for examples of Things. Yeah.

I think just being silent about it is not like, I think people are afraid of saying it. And like, sure, you can say the wrong thing, but if you're like, doing your research, even if it's just like reading a few articles, like, that is so much more than most people have to go off of. Like, I think just addressing it and trying to be transparent is the best you can do. Or just being like, hey, I know this is a thing. I'm not really sure, like, how to talk to you about this, but if you ever need to talk about it, like, that is so much better than.

Not doing it, than nothing.

They might be like, mom, but right.

Like, two people had sex and that's why we're here. Like, let's not make it this shameful thing. Okay, let's go back to anime for a second, which is the adult novelty show that we're going to. So my experience has been like, I'm on the press side, I'm coming. But you, like, are going to buy great products for Spectrum Boutique, which is your boutique. So how do you like so much there? Like, what do you look for? Or do they prep you ahead of time? Look for this thing. Look for that.

I was just at the Expos retreat in Miami, so I feel like it primed me well for going to ANMU.

This year because I'm like, give me some shortcuts.

I'm really excited about finding more niche things because I'm like, I've got a lot of vibrators, I got a lot of dildos. I definitely want to get more strokers and sleeves that aren't like made silicone or that aren't. That aren't like made from toxic sex toy materials or like, I'm really excited about like, chastity, like cockages. I have so many thoughts about cock cages.

Please go. I don't think talk about them ever. Let's explain it. The whole thing.

I. So CBX is a company that carries a really high quality cot cage. So high quality that, like, people are constantly ripping it off and selling it inexpensively on Amazon. Cbx, yeah, definitely do not buy on Amazon when it comes to cock cages. You'll buy something that can, like, scar your penis. Literally.

Public service announcements Ligon. Great. Okay.

CBX just got new owner. The previous owners passed away and they did a lot of research when they were like taking over this cot cage company. They didn't really know much about it and they were like, apparently, apparently most people who are into cock cages, I mean, there's Certainly some kinksters who are. But there's a lot of like heterosexual CIS men who are vanilla. It's like just like a lot of.

Cage that their partner could have the chastity.

And so much of it has. I mean to us we might still define it as kink, but I guess I call them vanilla in the sense that these aren't people who are engaging in other aspects of kink.

Like this is it. Cock cage.

Like one.

Don't try to blindfold me or spank me. I'm just putting my cock in a cage. Done.

So much of what I have to go off is anecdotal.

Yeah. No, I don't know any. Honey, I don't know. You tell me.

There's a lot of people who. Again, mostly heterosexual vanilla couples are like, my wife has never had an orgasm and I'm putting my dick in a cage because in solidarity. That's the thing I hear a lot. I also hear.

I. Hopefully it's mouse on a cage and then you could provide orgasms other way. Like she has an orgasm yet. But I just feel like you put your cock in a cage. Oh yeah.

There's like. That's not the solution. But it's like part of the.

The psyche. The play. The psyche. Yeah.

It's like the intimacy in a different way. I think for these people. It's also like we. It isn't a replacement for sex, but it's as exciting perhaps mentally. Another thing is I've cheated on my wife and now to get, you know, on the same footing again, I'm putting my dick in a cage. That's another thing I hear a lot.

Okay.

Which I'm like, hey, you know, if that is something you two have negotiated, that is great. But then of course there's like the kinky side of it as well. I think. Think it's so hard with anything sex researchy to get like an overall view on what it's about.

I think it's good to get let people know that's an option. I don't think we've. Maybe they're like, oh yeah, like I didn't know it was a cage. That could be the fetish that helps me figure out how to make my, you know, whatever my fantasy is.

It's also just like sensory deprivation and like the orgasm denial thing can be very hot outside of all those. Those other things as well. Sometimes it's like just not having access to your dick and then how highly sensitive it feels when it comes out.

Of there that I can see yeah, that is that. I can totally get that.

Or just like, this feels naughty. This feels taboo. I have had one partner who tried it out with me, and, like, we had a fun time. It wasn't like our bread and butter or anything, but we went out one night and he was wearing his dick in occasion. It was, like, definitely way more exciting for him than it was for me. I mean, like, I was into it, but I was also just like. Like, tee hee, you know, like, what's.

For dinner not as exciting to you? Okay, so what about. You have a video on your Instagram of balls that you can attach to dildos and vibrators?

Wait.

Oh, yes. Like, I've never seen that. I love that. I can actually feel the balls.

It's by the same company that makes the two in one.

Oh, no, no.

New York toy collective Stroker and Packer. It's the same company. So the love bump is like silicone balls. It's like a cock ring.

I want them. Will they be at the show?

I can totally bring you a little ball set of balls.

Bring me some balls.

Yeah. You can make any dildo have balls.

So much more.

Your wrist and people like the slapping sensation, like the weight of balls hitting your body. And usually when balls are, like, molded into the same thing as the dildo, they don't have as much mobility to, like, slap around and, you know, like truck nuts.

Yeah, I get it. It makes so much sense. I was like, oh, my God, I gotta ask about that. And then also. Okay, dildos. The bespoke dildos.

I just love the term bespoke because I think the definition is for a very particular user, which I just think is so funny.

Right.

Because anything could be bespoke.

But I know, like, my friend runs a bespoke wine gets called, literally, bespoke wines and bespoke dills and bespoke and everything. Right.

So I think I specifically, you're probably looking at the. What I've been calling the vagildos, the veggie dildos.

Amazing.

They're from Germany.

Okay.

And they're basically. Some of them are literal, like, life castings of actual produce. And some are, like, more like cartoony interpretations of produce, but they're all silicone, like, heat sensitive, so they change color.

Wow.

I personally like the asparagus dildo the best. I also like the big corn dildo. Okay.

Because you try. Yeah. But dildos are something we don't often like. I haven't tried a ton of dildos.

I. Well, I think we probably talked about size Queen, Right. Size queen and wand queen. So I'm just kind of like, let's see how this goes.

Right.

And like, I'll use the slimmer shapes as well just to get a feel for how they feel.

You know, you own a shop, you gotta try them all.

Honestly, our best selling dildo is. Is a very particular dildo called the Polka Dot Jolet.

Okay.

J O L L E T. And it is a dildo that is based off of a internal casting of the vaginal canal. So it's essentially supposed to fill up every nook and cranny. It kind of like where the pubic bone hits it is a little bit thinner and then it kind of like bulges out beyond there.

I mean, you really have Jolette.

Yeah. If you search Polka Dot Jolette. J O L L E T.

Yeah. So Spectrum Boutique, the couple that makes this dildo. I mean, like, the polka dots in it are part of the appeal for sure, but, you know, the shape itself is fucking awesome. And it's also a lot more intense than it looks like. You might look at that and look like, oh, it's just kind of like a curvy dildo. But it is really.

It's kind of like a prostate toy, but for the vagina.

You've got. You've got it. Exactly. But they literally found a way, like a body safe way of filling up a vaginal canal with like this special. The guy who makes it basically makes a lot of different.

Like, mechanical, like, I don't know, I don't think I can like, say his full job, but he just like, he. He's like a materials specialist.

Okay.

So it's like definitely like high quality silicone, but people are always like, how did they get the mold of the vagina? And like, he has explained it to me so many times that essentially it's this like soft mold that can like harden without harming the vaginal canal. And he took a cast and made a dildo out of the shape that he got. And it's fucking awesome.

Okay. I love. Did not know this.

I found out about this specific dildo through. Hey, Epiphora, the sex toy reviewer who was one of my very first sex toy blogs. I stumbled upon, you know, six or seven years ago when I got into this industry. But I was like, why doesn't anybody carry this thing? I want to see what this is about.

So fun. Because you can really go pick some things that are really unique that people don't find. Yeah. Which is so bespoke. Bespoke dildos. Okay, what are harnesses? I feel like when I was saying things have been changing this year, asking about pegging, it's always been a thing. But what I love is that in the last few years there's been more men on their own. Like usually it was a like just saying, like, I'm interested. And women on board too. And they're like, they're like couples. What do we do? Where do we go for pegging? So let's talk about harnesses. Like it used to be one or the other.

I heard.

Now they're coming together.

I have to share. I think it was the educator Carly S. Who comes up on Twitter. Research Carly S. But.

Dildu, I have to remember her blog name. I'll send it to you later. But I think she had this tweet that was like, like it's cute that straight people need a special term for strap on sex. Like if you need a special term for strap on sex to make it feel cool and need pegging. Like pegging.

Don't people even know what pegging is?

It's something that is strap on sex. But it's like this special term for like men need sex. I know, but like I still use the term pegging.

No, but I think it's better.

I think it's funny that there is a special term for straight people who want to have strap on stuff.

It's the same fucking thing, right?

It is the same fucking thing.

Yeah. Okay, so strap on sex.

Yeah, I mean like, I don't think the word there's anything wrong with.

No one knows what pegging is. I'll be on my, like my serious show. People like my friends in Michigan and even in San Francisco, like, they're listening. It's like, what's pegging? Every time I'm like, oh yeah?

Well, I wrote one article about pegging years ago and to this day I'll just have people be like, hey, are you the pegging lady?

Hey.

I'm like, listen, I mean like so many other things I've pegged, but like, right, right.

I do so many things. Do you know what else is in my wheel house? But what do you like? Let's talk about just straps on sex.

In general.

Yeah, in general or things you like?

There are.

And I have not done it. I've never, I've never strapped on sex.

Anyone it strapped on. I've had a handful of pegging and strap on sex experiences. Again, not my bread and butter though. Like, honestly, I would have a lot more strap on sex than I'm Currently having. It's kind of just like has to be with the right person. And I think for me it's like I generally want to be the wearer, but it also like brings up a lot of weird trauma feelings for me. But like in a way that I really enjoy the growth of feeling connected to sexuality through a harness and silicone dick essentially. But it's like I really, really love it, but it puts me into such a vulnerable headspace that I have to be really like careful with it because.

Of eroticizing trauma, which can work. But also. Is that what you're talking about? Like, it's, it's that like.

I think what also is weird for me is how some people think that strap on sex is a fetish or a kink. And I think that's also like a really straight person's view of strap on sex as well.

It's just another. Yeah. I don't see it penetrate where we all have so many holes. It can feel good. Try it. You never try to.

For me, it's like even more intimate in some ways and like less kink oriented than just about any other kind of sex because it's like I'm paying a lot of attention to what's going on in my body and the receiver's body.

Yeah, I need to be the recipient of strap on sex still. So putting a call out, you've never had the recipient. I've been the strapper honor.

Okay. So being the strapper honor, you know how you were saying that you didn't get a lot of pleasure from the cock cage? What about being. What about the strap on? Part of it is giving you pleasure. The dominance or the seeing your partner in pleasure.

I'm such like, I'm totally a.

Bottom even when I wearing a dick.

Right. I hear you. I can.

But I think for me it's like just truly looking at my. Or not looking at. It's like feeling my body in a whole new way. It is not for me aesthetically about wearing the harness and a dildo. It's more about like feeling connected to a new extension of myself. Just like when I'm using a vibrator. It's not like, like it's like it feels like it becomes a part of me. Just like when I'm wearing clothes, it's like this is me, you know, it's something that is attached to my arm now, you know, But I guess in just a more like to take a step back about hardness in general because like I'm not really a person who has like all the strap on sex. You know, totally.

Or even just. I actually was just thinking about. Yeah. With the ones you like. Even products wise or what you hear from people.

Yeah. I, I personally recommend the Jock by Spare Parts which is just a classic. Good. Because it's machine washable.

Love it.

I think that leather is great aesthetically and vegan leather, it can be just as comfortable, but it's not. You can't disinfect it.

It's so important for sterile.

Yeah, yeah. I mean and you can't technically, I guess the correct word is sanitize or just clean. Cause nothing can be like fully disinfected. Nothing in this world is sterile. But, but I think that it's better to get a cloth harness if you're just starting out because then you, you know, especially if you don't have a committed partner that you're looking to have strap on sex with, then you definitely want something you can wash. But leather is great for so many other reasons. It definitely like creates a different silhouette. The harnesses by Aslan are kind of like the Aslan Jaguar is probably one of the most popular leather harnesses. But I also like the cloth ones cause you can slip bullets in them.

I like the bullets because then it's going inward. And then if you're the giver, you can also have a little bit of vibrant bullet as you want something for yourself. So there's fun for the whole family.

When it comes to double ended dildos, a lot of people assume that they're supposed to be hands free things that you can just like. Yeah, like especially the L shaped double dildos, not the like linear straight line ones. People are like, oh, the packaging says that my Kegel muscles are supposed to hold it inside of my body. It's like, no, you really need to use them with a heart. So if you've tried to use the L shaped double ended dildos and you're like this thing sucks, try it out with a harness. It's much better. Not for everybody, but I'm really angry that the way these things are marketed makes people think like, oh, so much.

Of the market isn't great. That's why they need you. They need me, they people like us who kind of know how to do it. So let's. Okay, so tell me real quick. This is very helpful. So your new podcast, Hot Brain, what are we gonna find on there? Teach people you're learning. It's not all sex, but a lot of sex and discussion and just what real life.

I like what I like about my relationship with Mark again, is that he. He has now I've given him the name Muggle Mark, meaning, like, he's like, outside of the wizarding world of sexuality, he hates it. He's like, don't call me Muggle Mark.

Harry Potter.

I've, like, made it stick that. Yeah, it's a Harry Potter reference. And, like, I'm not a Potter head, but I still. I still appreciate Harry Potter, but I think the word Muggle is so perfect for, like, yeah, people outside of the world. But he is such an enthusiast about sex. He is, like, a huge cheerleader for all things sexuality, even before he met me. So he's really with the program. And, you know, if you're not a sex educator, you're not going to know all the right terminology necessarily. So what I love is that, like, sometimes I'm correcting him, but it's not, like, in a shamey way. I think that people need it model. I need. People need communication modeled. And, like, by no means do we have this shit figured out, but I think that we've got a really. We've got good chemistry just as friends and then lovers and people who cohabitate now.

We're really attached at the hip in so many ways. And I think it's a really safe way for me to also be more candid in my sex education. I think that a podcast, as you might be aware, is so much easier than writing sometimes because people can hear your tone of voice and people aren't like, what are you mean by that? It's like, you can speak a little bit more freely, and it's not that word choice isn't important, but I do feel like I'm able to speak to some more, like, abstract concepts in a podcast, Right?

Absolutely. Especially if he's asking questions. It's playful and.

But it's also really important. I think that Mark is such a great example of how you can really be a sensitive person and be masculine. Like, masculinity and sensitivity aren't two different things.

Please, we need more of that.

Yeah. And, like, I have a pretty big, you know, according to Google Analytics, at least mostly female audience. But I think that it's been really great to get questions coming from guys who are like, you know, questions. And then I love hearing Mark address things from his point of view. And again, like, sometimes I just am so in my world of sex education that I'm like, there's too many things swimming around in my brain. I need you to bring me back to, like, what it's like, outside of.

Talking about sex on a daily. That's why we just. Yeah, exactly. We do it all the time. But we're doing. We're doing the work, the important work.

Yeah. And I think it's just like. So it's about match for you.

I love this for you. The whole boyfriend thing and the connected. I love it so much.

It's about so much more than sex, though. I think that. I mean, he has, like, a political science background, so he teaches me a lot about kind of, like, community, ways that communities can be more cohesive. Because I think that.

I don't know, I struggle a lot with feeling like I'm a lone wolf who floats around from friend groups. Or it's like, I've got a lot of friend groups, but I'm like, I don't wanna. Like, I gotta pop around everywhere. I'm afraid of people getting to know the truly.

Sometimes broken feeling person inside of me. And I don't think I am broken, but I know what you mean. There's so much vulnerable shit inside of me that I'm. I think that I have unconsciously kind of bounced around from people to people. Not, like, burning bridges. But it's hard for me to just, like, fully be like, okay, you really want to know the landscape of my brain. It is difficult. Oh, you know, Another thing that connects me with Mark a lot is that we both had OCD as younger as children, and we both have anxiety today. But a lot of that was just, like, recently I've been learning how my OCD is still very present in adulthood, just in different ways.

And.

And for me, a lot of that is feeling like I must confess things that aren't really, like, things I need to disclose to people, not in, like, an inappropriate way, but, like. Like, just making sure it's okay that I did the. Like, lots of, like, needing validation, but also just, like, just want to make sure that, you know, I did this and that it doesn't, like, mess up anything that you were trying to do or, like, is it okay that I was thinking this thing and, like, yeah.

I really think that's ocd. Part. That's an OCD I met.

OCD has a lot of different. So many ways of manifesting. Like, boarding is technically in the DSM along with ocd.

She's looking at me, my assistant. I had a hoarding garage where I was. Had a lot of. I did. I have a lot of organizers. My garage was packed. You couldn't walk in. It was a bunch of different or, like, literally Organizer, like, try in my attention.

You gotta organize your organizers.

Right. And that's all it was. And it was crazy.

Well, it is really hard. I mean, I definitely know how intense the emotional attachment to physical objects can be for me. And, like, my basement is kind of organized, but there's, like, the box of things that have such strong emotions that I'm like, I don't care if they need to be thrown away or donate or whatever. I'm just like, I can't address that yet. And I think that ocd, anxiety, depression are all things that can sometimes manifest as a result of trauma as, like, coping mechanisms.

So he's had that too. So you guys have. Could sort of help it, because he gets it.

Yeah. It's not like I need to explain the.

Right. Oh, I'm sorry. Or here's why I did it. Or he gets you. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I, I, I mean, I think I've.

Just been really distant from that, like, part of my reality.

It's so scary to disclose to people because are they gonna judge me? Are they gonna love me?

Well, and also, OCD is the kind of thing that people are like, oh, my God, I'm all so ocd. And I'm like, that's. I'm not personally offended when people say that, but I'm just like, no, it's.

No, it's really a thing.

Unique situation, mentally, in that you're fully aware of how ridiculous your thoughts and rituals are, but you're still just so stuck in it. And I think trauma in general can feel that way too. Like, you know that there is a block and you can't overcome it yet. You just don't know why. I mean, so much of mental health feels that way.

So what's helped you the most, would you say, with all these things? Therapy, for sure.

Exercise. But not like, like, exercise that can feel meditative. So, like, going on hikes really helps.

Nature's huge. Yeah.

Meditation, although I love that meditation is the kind of thing that I was like, I don't know. It seems like a really lofty goal. You know, it seems so impossible.

Meditation. Yeah.

And then I realized, like, oh, just like, trying and having your thoughts clear for, like, two seconds can be a meditation.

A minute. That's what gave me permission to it. It was like, when they were like, and I've done a lot over the years, but they were like, oh, it could just be a minute. I'm like, I got that. And then eventually do a minute, and you want to do more.

Another important Thing that I literally was reminded of in my last therapy session last week is that medication is not supposed to make it all go away. It just makes it more manageable. And I'm, like, on a medication that I'm not having any allergic reaction to. My last one I did no side effects, but I was like, why am I still having these, like, emotional breakdowns? And my therapist was like, you had a really triggering week.

Like, right.

The medication isn't going to make your triggers just vanish. You're still going to be triggered by things.

It just allows you to have some stability to kind of move on to other things. Because before the. You're in the same loop.

Yeah.

So it kind of like allows you to see another perspective. It's still there, but then there's more accessible to you to actually start to make some other changes.

Exactly.

Yeah. I get it, girl. You're doing good work, Zoe. Thanks for being here. Everyone. Check you out. I love seeing you. And then I'm gonna get to see you all week at the show.

I'm so lucky.

I have to ask you some. Would you Rathers. Last time you were here, we did some of. Yes. Okay. Ready?

Love this game.

All right, all right. Would you rather have kinky sex or romantic sex?

Oh, that is such a. Oh, you got me there, girl. I think overall romantic sex at present, kinky sex.

I know it's different.

Like, in this exact moment, this moment. Different movement. Overall romantic.

Okay. Would you rather sleep with your best friend's parent or your parent's best friend?

My face is shocked right now. My parents best friend or my best friend's parent. I guess best friend's parent. Just to, like, get as far away from my family as possible.

But I'm like, that would be it.

I'm like, sorry. To any friend that. Yeah, like, I'm like, that would be so.

Okay, let's see here.

Listen to me, though. I'm, like, getting all judgy, but, like, I'm like, I know so many people who have done that. And, like, it's such a thing. And, like, who am I?

Best friends, parent, or their best friend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, all the time. I've heard these things.

Who am I to judge, right? Who can say?

Judging? No, we don't help this. And this is just a fun game.

I'm singing it, so seriously.

I don't know. It's good, though. Would you rather make a lot of noises during sex or really loud noise during orgasm?

A lot of really loud noises during sex.

Okay.

Stay consistent.

Exactly. Would you rather fart uncontrollably when you come or cry inconsolably.

Oh, I mean, I've done both.

I think I cry so I fart so much too. Damn. I guess farting because it's like so much of a release that it's like if you have any gas bubbles in your rectum, they will come out. They will.

Awesome. Zoe. That is awesome. Congratulations on your podcast Hot Brain. Yay. Everyone can try and find it. You at Sangria.

Yeah, that has a link to just about everything. Spectrumboutique.com is the shop and if you ever have questions about sex products, we have a team of people who will answer all your sex questions in the shop. Spectrum Boutique DMs.

All right. And this will be all in the show notes as well. Thank you, Zoe for being here. Thank you so much.

Bye bye.

All right, guys, hope you enjoyed the show. Remember, if you like the show, share it with a friend. Please subscribe wherever you listen to the podcast. Write a review. We released three a week and you never want to miss a show, do you? And I love hearing from you. So thanks. Thanks to my amazing team, Ken, Kristen, Michelle, producer, Jamie and Michael. And thanks to all of you. Hey, was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwith emily.com.

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