SWE: Kinky Massage

It's Toyota Truck Month. Time for a truck that works as hard as you. Tacoma. Tundra. Built for the job and ready for the trail. Available with 4-wheel drive and connected tech. All backed by legendary Toyota reliability. Visit your local Toyota dealer for great financing and lease options available to qualified customers. Or visit buyatoyota.com to find your Truck Month deal today. That's buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places.

Hi, I'm Emily from sexwithemily.com. What if giving oral sex tasted like strawberries or chocolate? Mask makes these delicious strips like a breath strip, only better. They make oral sex taste like chocolate, strawberry, watermelon, or mango. Make sex more pleasurable for you and your partner by going to sexualflavors.com.

Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.

Bedroom eyes, they called them in a bygone day.

Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend? 'Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute. A girl's gotta have her standards. Oh my.

Do women know about shrinkage?

Isn't it common knowledge? What do you mean, like laundry? It shrinks?

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh my God, it feels so good. Being bad feels pretty good. But you know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with. You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com where you can read our blog, listen to our podcast, watch videos, sign up for our goddamn mailing list. If you're listening to the show, you should be on our mailing list because that's where you're going to find out all the interesting things happening with Sex with Emily. We're going to give you a free report if you'd like, this top 5 mistakes men are making in bed and women are making in bed. And I won't like spam you or sell your name or anything. I'll just email you things that will improve your sex life and your relationship, which is what I think So, thanks to all my listeners. It's been amazing the last few weeks. It's like our numbers are like crazy on people downloading the show. So, thank you and please share the show with your friends and, you know, like it on Facebook and like me on— follow me on Twitter and Facebook, Sex with Emily, and I just love listening. I love hearing from you all. So, thanks for your emails to feedback@sexwithemily.com. You must know I do read all of them. I can't always read them all on the air and answer them. Um, but know that I read them and hopefully someone else will have a question like yours and help get it answered. And if not, we will, um, we'll get back to you soon. Just keep listening and, um, all your worries will be gone. So, um, today I have a guest, special guest in the studio. I have Jelene Benes. She wrote a book called Bondassage. You love that.

Love that.

Clap, clap, clap. Um, kinky erotic massage tips for lovers. We're gonna get into that in a minute. I loved reading your book. I was so excited by it. It was awesome. And I'm here with Anderson.

Hello, sex.

Hello. I love that you call me sex. Like, people call me Sex with Emily, like, when I see them out and about, but you just call me sex.

Sex is easy.

Yeah, sex is easy. It's great. But you know what the problem is though lately? This is what's happened to me like 2 to 3 times in the last few weeks. I've been pretty social for me. There's a lot going on, and I've had parties to go to, events, things like that.

Swinger parties.

Swinger parties. I've not gone to any swinger parties yet, although you know when I do, I will fill you in. Um, I you know, I'm single, as you know, you're a single lady. And I, I really don't want people to, to lead when they meet me with, if someone's introduced me to someone, I don't wanna say, oh, Emily, she hosts sex talk radio show. Like, oh, she, oh, she's, she's Sex with Emily. She's so-called Sex with Emily. Cuz instantly they're thinking like, you know, she's a crazy sex fiend, whatever it is. Or it doesn't matter, but you just don't wanna lead with that. Right, right. So I try not to. So when people ask me what I do, I'm like, oh, I do this, I do that. You know, I, I say like I'm a producer or I just, so I try not to bring up the career thing at least in the first 5 minutes. The last few nights I've been out, one time this guy comes up to me and he's like, I was at this party. It was a wedding party actually. Um, friends of mine got married in another country, but they had a big party here in, in, uh, I was gonna say San Francisco, in LA where I live now. And the guy says to me, the groom goes, oh, Emily, you're here. I want you to meet my friend. Cuz he's been telling me about the single guy friend that he really wanted me to meet. He's like, come over here. He's like, meet Emily. She teaches people how to give blowjobs.

Like Andy Dick in that one movie?

This is my friend Mike. And I'm like, oh, that's— I almost wish you led with the sex with Emily Morse.

Was he drinking?

Yeah, he was drinking.

Drinking, he's the groom.

This is not the same guy that you want to fix me up with. I mean, maybe you do if I want to just have sex with him, but really, like— so I just walked away. He's like, really, you do? That's so interesting. I'm like, I do more than that, you know. Anyway, and then another thing happened. I was out last night and another guy says to me, you're the sex therapist! He yelled really loud at a party. I don't even remember meeting him, and then everyone turned around and then started asking me sex. It's just getting a little awkward lately, I don't know why. But I just like that you call me sex.

That's— Okay, I'm gonna call you sex. Well, you're in a precarious position with what you do.

It is, I am.

It comes with the territory.

It wasn't premeditated. It wasn't like I thought, oh, if I become a sex and relationship expert, then it's gonna be, you know—

Tonight, I was leaving early and I told the wife, I said, I gotta leave really early tonight. She goes, why? I said, I have to go do sex with Emily Morse.

What'd she say?

And she went, what? And I said, oh, that show, Sex with Emily.

Right.

Yeah.

Is she like the one who keeps your balls fresh because you're bald?

Exactly. She's like, oh, the ball lady.

Yeah.

At least no one's calling you the ball lady.

That's true. But they do sometimes. No, I have this new brand. So, Jillian, I was telling you because I was reading your book and it's massage and I have these massage candles that I just launched a new brand called Emily and Tony. So everyone go to Emily and Tony.

Oh my God, these are so yummy.

Aren't they?

Oh, they smell so good.

It's amazing, right? 'Cause I know that you were talking in your book too, you use coconut oil and— All that stuff so that they're all vegan and they're, they're coconut oil, soybean oil, beeswax. It's not totally vegan cuz it's beeswax, but, um, you know, all great ingredients. And so I want everyone, if you love me, you love the show and you wanna support the show, then go buy something. I've got this also. I have Down Under Comfort, which is for men, for their balls to keep them clean and dry. And, um, you're, you might be complaining cuz your partner doesn't always go down or whatever it is and it'll keep you fresh. Women can also use it on their lower back anywhere they sweat. But the candles I'm obsessed with, like massage candles. How great are they for? We're gonna, we're gonna get into why I made these candles too, because I think people hear massage candle and the first thing they think is, oh, it's waxy and you're gonna, you're gonna pour hot wax on me. It's like, yeah, we're gonna get into that in a minute. A lot of people want that, but some people don't. And these candles turn into massage oil and it's luxurious and delicious. And I use it as a moisturizer every morning. So if you want to get some, go to emilyandtony.com, use coupon code EMILY, and I believe you get 20% off. I should know that. 20 or 15%, you get a good percentage off. And you know what, don't complain because I'm giving you free podcasts for the last 10 years. So you should just love me and buy something. And also, I'm not making you buy something that you won't love and use. And there's also lubricant you can buy.

So, okay, and do they come in different, different—

yes, we have cocoa, vanilla, and fougère. Fougère is like a, um, it's more of the kind of, kind of a woodsy, like patchouli. Really nice.

Yeah, so more for guys, more, a little more, yeah, male-centric.

You should get chlorine scented.

Oh, chlorine would be hot. For what, the swimmers?

For the guy, because it smells like semen.

Oh, does semen smell like chlorine?

Yes, yes, bleach, chlorine.

So, okay, so some guy asked me that and I know, I've swallowed lots of—

You don't teach blowjobs very good, apparently.

I, okay, yes, I've come in contact with semen in my life. Many times, I'll admit it. But I never thought chlorine.

Oh yeah.

I thought, I can tell you what it tastes like. Like I was just telling a guy what it tasted like, but I never thought it smells like chlorine. Okay, really? Does everyone know one thing? I can't believe I'm learning something here. I'm gonna learn a lot.

I taught sex somebody. You know what? At parties, people are gonna say, hey, that's the guy that taught that sex lady something about sex.

That's what they're gonna say right now. They're gonna say, who the hell? Um, okay, so that's what I got. What else do I have for you this week? I'm trying to think if there's anything else important that I have to tell you. I don't know, just thanks for listening to the show.

Let's get into dominatrix and whips. Okay, I got whip sound effects.

I just thought like there's something else. Okay, Jillian, your book Bondassage. Okay, so that's B-O-N-D-A-S-S-A-G-E, which is a combination of bondage and massage, which I love.

Very good.

Kinky Erotic Massage Tips for Lovers and your website where they can find you. Cuz we're gonna be talking, I think your book's gonna be like flying off the Amazon shelf or wherever you're selling it.

Amazon.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, is that your website then? Bondassage.com?

Bondassage.com. Yes.

Bondassage.com. Okay. I love this book because I thought, I think you give amazing tips and I think that massage, I always say this, like massage is like such a gateway to intimacy for so many couples. And, and a lot of people who, um, I think, a lot of couples who are maybe struggling sexually, they're not connecting anymore. I always say like, just take sex off the table and like start giving each other a massage and explore each other's massage, you know, massage erogenous zones. Um, but I love that this is more for people who just want to like, tell me about first of all, how you got started. So let's get into that before I try to explain your book better than you could. So tell me about your background and your history and how you even came into this, how this came about. Yes.

Thank— that's a great question. Um, I was, I've been a massage therapist for 25 years, um, and I still do therapeutic work, and I've been kinky my whole life. And this is the type of play that I would do with my partners. And, um, I think about 2005, I started doing some professional dominatrix work, and I, I, my main niche, you know, so BDSM has really changed lately, and you can do whatever you want, right? You don't have to be the, um, uh, caricature of an old dominatrix, right? So I really specialized in body play, right? So sensory deprivation, bondage, and playing with the body. Corporal— it's called corporal punishment, but it's like the slapping, caning, flogging, that kind of thing. And I wanted to incorporate more erotic massage into it, and one day I just combined it, and it totally took off. And, um, uh, people were coming up from LA, they were coming out from New York, they were— they wanted me to come up to San Francisco. And bondage can have— it doesn't have to, but it can't— the way I do it has a lot of tchotchke stuff, right? It has a lot— it has a lot of toys. So I I schlepped everything up to the city once and then I said, "Forget that," and I started training people in it. So, right now we've got over 100 practitioners worldwide in Australia and Canada and Europe. And so, I train practitioners, that's my main gig, and then I also work with couples and I do a lot of couples coaching, too.

So, it's touch therapy and— It's touch care therapy. Word that, you know, whatever other traditional therapy as well?

Not really. It's, it's so— it's more somatic, right? Because with bondage, with bondage, what we do is lightly tie you down to the massage table or the bed. The sensory deprivation part is a blindfold, and I, I brought one.

I know, you told me. She texted me, she's like, should I bring some treats to the show? I'm like, yes, bring some fun stuff.

So I use these really soft blindfolds called Mindfold, and, and the artist Alex Gray came up with them. What's great about Mindfold is that it's really cushy, it's very and you can open up your eyes inside and you still can't see, right? So there's no pressure on your eyes, it won't screw your makeup up.

Oh my God, this is amazing! I love this!

And they're cheap, they're like $20.

This makes— mindfold, okay, that makes so much sense. Mindfold. Because you're always uncomfortable with the blindfold, and I'm like, I always think, I always tell people to blindfold your partner, that'd be so easy and comfortable to have somebody back.

It's really nice, so you can use a scarf, or you can use, you know, hosiery, nylons or something, or you can just tell them to shut their eyes, but you know, I found that guys tend to be so visual, right, and in their head, and a way to get them into their body is to take away their sight, right? And so, and it also, coming from kind of a sex play part, it frees me up so I'm not so self-conscious about you're looking at me and you're staring at me and how am I looking and I gotta perform for you or whatever. And so just putting on a blindfold makes it so much easier for the giver, right? So they don't see you fumbling around for things, and it can even heighten the anticipation because they don't know what you're getting.

Exactly, they don't know what's coming next.

They don't know what's coming next. I like to use wireless headphones connected to some specially selected music that's in the book. I put the links to the book.

Oh, you know, I saw that, like some playlists, because at first I was like, oh, what music? Right. I love that.

And if you get the ebook, the links go directly to the albums on Amazon.

Are you serious?

Seriously.

I love technology. I love technology. Okay, so they can just download the ebook from Amazon as well.

Yeah, if you get the ebook from Amazon, and I think they might be linking them too pretty soon, but if you get the ebook, It all goes to that. So the music that I use, and it took a while to figure this out, but I use slow beat, right, 'cause we want a rhythm, especially for like light flogging or body percussion things. And we don't want any English lyrics because anything English, your head will start, your mind will start clicking onto it and start, it's distracting, right? So non-English lyrics and kind of a slow beat. So we've got you lightly tied down, blindfold, headphone, and then we start off with some really yummy, slow massage. And people tend to get intimidated by massage, but you touch all the time and it is something really natural. And I think for me, being kind of shy and I don't want to get looked at kind of thing, it's having them blindfolded. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm an introvert too. Having them blindfolded really takes the pressure off and you can just do, go very slow. And when you take the sight and the You take the sound away. Everything is intensified, right? So you can go very slowly and, and you don't have to go hard. You don't want to go hard anyway, because you always wanted to go slow.

I love that you said that in your book. You said something like slow is an art.

Slow is an art that we've lost.

We've lost. I always like whenever people tell me what's your number one sex tip, I say go 5— for men especially, I'm like, go 5 times slower than you are.

It's slow.

It's, it's just, I love that how you wrote.

I think you said like slow itself is We've come up with a second bondage-type massage called Elysium, which is just the massage without all the sensation playthings. It's just massage. Different music, slower music, and the main thing that I try to teach the practitioners is to go slower than the music. It's very meditative, right? It can be really meditative to see if you can go, see if your movements can be even slower than the music.

Right.

Because we tend to be so fast in everything, right?

Oh my God, everything.

Everything is a little, little, yeah.

Right. So everyone— so not everyone— so tell me about your typical people who come to see you.

So the typical client that I would have tends to be men. They tend to be between 40 and 60, and they tend to be adrenaline junkies, right? So the mountain climbers, the, you know, the bike, the, you know, jumping out of airplanes, that kind of stuff. People that thrive on adrenaline. High— mid-level to high executive, in charge all the time, right? And so bondage can be another kind of thrill ride. For them, right?

So walk me through their session.

So their session, they come in, they come in, and then I generally have them get naked and kneel down in front of me because it's kind of a dom thing, right?

But this is— before we go into that, I just want to say that this is— I like this because it's not— it's more vanilla BDSM, if you will.

It's great.

That's like entry to any—

like, it is a— it is a nice— it is a nice little gateway. So generally, I'm— I sit on the table, I have them kneel down in between my legs, I have them put their hands behind their back because people don't know what to do, and I put a little collar on them very slowly, and I talk to them, give them some little breathing instructions, tell them, you know, if something comes up, just let me know. This isn't a typical BDSM session, so I'm not going to give you a safe word, but if anything comes up, just let me know. And then I put these really yummy cuffs on their wrists.

Okay, what kind of cuffs?

I get really thick leather cuffs from— can I say the name on the air? Yeah, I get most of my stuff from GT Stockroom, which is Stockroom Right down here on Sunset. Leather cuffs on their wrists and ankles, and then I have them stand up and then get onto the table. Now, I really cush out my massage table, so I put a Tempur-Pedic foam thing, and I've got the massage silk sheets on them, and I've got the Tempur-Pedic face cradle, so it's really soft and cushy. And then they get on, and I very lightly take rope and then tie the cuffs to the table leg. Now, if you're gonna do this at home, you can get, I think KinkLab puts out the under-the-bed restraints that you can just put under the bed once and they are always there. Or you can slide some rope just in between the mattress and the box spring.

Right. Or what about sports sheets? Or sports sheets. Okay. Any of this stuff that we're talking about, you can also get at Good Vibes. Good Vibrations. We love Good Vibrations. So goodvibes.com. Use coupon code Emily and you can get just about everything that we're talking about here.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

Great.

Okay.

So, um, yeah. So we got to— so generally I like to start face down. Face down with them, and then I start doing just some really slow, sensual touching. Touching, stroking, rocking, to kind of connect with the body, get them down into the body, and get them out of the head, and just connect and slow them down. Then I'll start to do some sensation play with some really soft things. So, like today, I brought some fur mitts.

Okay, let me see the fur mitts. You kept writing about the fur mitts. I'm like, I want fur mitts. Yes. Okay, so So let me just back up. This guy comes to you, he's coming to you because he is desiring what he could just go get a massage at the, you know, at the corner place, but at the spa down the street. But he comes to you because he has some desire to, to do either.

He's had a little bit of kinky play or he wants to try some kinky play, doesn't want to go to a dominatrix because it's too scary and it's going to hurt. Um, uh, the majority of the people that come to see me have done some kind of sensual massage or tantra-based things before, want to try a little bit of something kinky, and again, don't want to go to a Dom because it's, you know, kink.com, it's too scary, it's going to hurt, you know, you're going to have marks, and what do you do?

Fuzzy, let me see these. These are fuzzy, fuzzy mittens, fuzzy gloves.

So I get these, oh cool, okay, I get these from bunnyflogger.com. He's a, Damon makes them for me, he's in San Jose. And they're washable too.

Oh, great.

You can throw them in the washing machine.

Okay. Love that.

Right? So it's always like, how are you going to clean that? You can throw them in the washing machine.

So this is what he has on, these fuzzy gloves.

No, no, no. I do this.

Oh, you could do this before you put the lotion oil on.

Yes. So I do everything that's going to be soft before I put the lotion on. Right?

Okay.

So, because you don't want your stuff to get all crappy. Right? So for the vegan conscious people, I got a Calvin Klein plushy fleece blanket and I just made some potholders. Okay. And they're really nice too. So they feel really good.

Okay.

So I'll use that. I might— here, crunchy, crunchy, crunchy.

I know, crunchy bag. You should see this bag of tricks. Ooh, flogger. Yeah, hot pink too. Ooh, hot pink. And this is made out of bunny flogger too. Bunny flogger. This is all bunny too.

Wow.

Okay.

Feathers, feather dusters. You know, there's so many things that people can use right inside their house.

Right. Pervertibles, right?

It's called pervertibles. Yes, you know the term.

Yeah. I was talking about this on Loveline a few weeks ago, and they looked at me. They're like, is that a real word? Pervertibles. They're like, what's a pervertible? And then in my mind I'm like, spatula. Like, I couldn't think of them all.

Feather duster, spatula, and boo skewers. I have 3 pages of pervertibles inside the book.

Oh good.

I think on page 93 or something. Got it.

So these are things you don't have to go out and go shopping, even though you could. Oh, I didn't say this. If you go to goodvibes.com and you use coupon code Emily, you get, I believe it's 15% off everything that you want to get there.

Okay. You know what's a fabulous date night is to go to Williams-Sonoma, or to go to Home Depot, or to go to the drugstore and go find things that might make great sensation play.

Oh, I love it! I'll blow this out too so you don't—

No, no, no, it's fun, it smells good.

Okay, good.

No, no, no, leave it on.

I gave her one of my coconut candles.

It's so yummy.

I know, isn't it yummy?

It's so yummy.

Okay, so that's funny, I actually have to go to Home Depot this weekend.

There you go, and you can walk around up and down the aisles and say, how could I use this? How could I—

So give me an example of something at Home Depot.

Okay, here. Are you crafty?

Sometimes, if I have time. I would be super crafty if I had more time. I would just sit around and bead all day.

It's so fun. All right, so I got this ball chain flogger that I made. Of course, you can buy one.

We'll take pictures of this and put it on the website.

Right, you can buy one too, but this is really fun. I just got that ball chain that you use for dog tags or keychains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got 70 feet of it. I cut them into 1-foot lengths. I wrapped them around popsicle sticks. With duct tape.

Oh my god, DIY bondage!

I swear to God, this is so amazing. If you— if I could have you stand up and—

so you're gonna—

well, no, no, no, no, not with this. It's a really heavy implement. You wouldn't do that. No, you wouldn't. But it's— but it feels like mercury. Oh, because it's like the cold, and it's cold without doing anything to it, right?

That's really cool. How'd you come up with that? We're gonna take pictures of this. You have to see this. You know, it's just, you just know after doing this for so long, like what would feel good.

Well, and you walk through Home Depot and you're like, hey, what can I do with this? And you know what's great is, is you get, um, really devoted clients who, who walk around and make all this shit for you.

That is amazing. I love those clients. It's like, you must. Okay.

Who, you know, how serious?

So do they fill out like a form before they come in or what they're into, what they're not, or you just kind of—

Not, not for bondage, you know. Um, uh, with S&M sessions, they're, they're a little bit more structured because you talk about what you want. But with bondage, there's really nothing that's problematic. I check to see about rotator cuff injuries because when they're face up, I like to tie their hands above their head. It's a more vulnerable position to be open, but it's also stressful on the shoulders, right? So if they have any kind of shoulder injuries, I'll just tie their hands at their sides. One great thing about bondage is it gets them from grabbing you when you're working on them. Because people like to help or something, and guys tend to be used to running everything. And this is a really great way for me to just say, you know what, just calm down and let me do my shit.

Right. You know, and these are like the execs, the CEOs running their company, running their business. It's always the guys you hear about, like the businessman in the diaper, right? He wants to be like in a diaper. It's not any worse, but it is a stereotype, but it is kind of true. I mean, I know a lot of friends too, or, and people and write, people write into my show who, right. And you think it's because these men, their entire life, they're in control of everything.

So this is one hour or one time, one hour where they can just receive. Right. Right. And so, so some of them come in to receive, but some of them are just so conditioned to not—

yeah, they want to grab you and they want to—

oh yeah. And they're just not used to receiving. Right. You know, it's really hard. Right.

You know how, like, it's like a learned skill to receive.

And it helps a lot when you time down.

Right. Time down. You're going to learn this tonight. I'll tell you that. Okay. Um, okay.

So then, so then you, so you do the soft stuff first, do the soft stuff first, and then what I do with bondage in a traditional bondage session, and just, they do a little bit of massage and then a little bit of kinky things, right? And so I split it up and I came down to work with, um, Jaya last summer. She was writing a kink book and, and she is a big kind of research geek and she said, oh my God, there's so much science behind this that you build up the endorphins and then you spread it out around their body.

And I was like, okay, but you know, what do you mean that you, the giver?

No, the, the, yeah, as the giver, I'm, I'm creating, I'm, uh, intensifying. Building up the sensations in their body.

For the receiver, you're building up their sensations.

Their sensations, and then you spread it out within the body. So, I might use some soft things to start. First, I'd start with my hands, and then I'd start with the soft things, anything before I put the oil on or the cream on.

Okay.

And then, who knows, then I vary things up.

When you're getting to the kinky part, what happens? What do you do?

I generally start, I always start with my hands.

Okay.

Right, so, and I start with my hands on the butt, there's a real sweet spot on the butt that I don't know if you've talked to your clients about. I mean, talk to your listener about.

I know, but tell me.

So the sweet spot is generally like the bottom third of the ass, kind of on the inside towards the thighs, and that's directly connected to the genitals. And so if you concentrate on that, it's a little bit— the whole butt is really pleasurable, but that tends to give them more bang for your buck. So I might do a little bit of spanking, but just soft, because With everything that you do, especially hitting and percussion, I'll just call it body percussion, there's such a variety, right? And you can do, you can start, I always start soft and then I get a little bit harder and I watch the body. If they're arching their butt up, it means they want more. If they start clenching too much, with guys it's really easy to tell if they like it, right? But also guys, and conversely, guys can also be really stoic because I have gotten clients and women too, that it's just kind of like they're frozen, right? And you're not— and it's like you're not getting anything back. And with bondage, when I use headphones and blindfold, I'm not talking to them, right? It's not talking. I'm reading their body. So a trick that I've learned was to watch their toes.

Interesting.

Because guys, they'll be down there and I'll be doing something to them and it won't be anything, right? I won't get any feedback, right? I'm like, are you liking this? Are you not liking this? Is this— and then I'll look at their feet and their toes are going crazy.

And that means, yeah, yeah, they're clapping for you, Jaylene, right?

Or it's getting really intense, right? Or it's getting really intense.

So do women do that too with their toes?

I think so. Okay, I think so too. I wonder—

I'm saying because I'm always telling people to pay attention to your lover so you know if what you're doing feels good or bad. So I wonder if the toes were like a direct— I'm not in everyone. It could be.

It could be.

It could be. I think you always hear about like toe clenching orgasms and stuff, right?

Well, guys I think are many, many men are trained to just be stoic and not show any kind of reaction, right? And I remember some of the first clients I started doing this with, and it was like afterwards they were like, well, I was— I was like, did that work for you?

I mean, there was nothing, you know?

And he's like, I was screaming in my head. And I'm like, really? Okay, well, next time let's do a little bit of—

you know, right?

It really feels good to me if I have some moans or some, you know, sighs or something.

Exactly. And that For women, when we're sleeping with a man and he doesn't make any noises and you don't even know the orgasm, like he goes like this. Like I've talked about this on the show, but I was seeing this guy once and literally like when he orgasmed, it was like, it was like that. I was like, I'm like, did you? I don't even know. Like if I sneeze, I'll miss it. If I turn my head, like, did you just orgasm? Really? Like, I don't know why guys just, their stomach, I think it's maybe because they started masturbating in their bedrooms when they were younger and they didn't want to make noise. Or again, they're just stoic and they're not used to it.

Or they're shy or they're not friendly.

So, yeah, anyway, men can make noise. It's sexy, it's hot.

It's nice and it's great. It gives feedback. Yeah, you love it.

Right, right.

And not only feedback, it also gives reassurance to the person that you're liking what they're doing.

Right, exactly. Okay, so you start doing some spanking.

I'll do a little spanking and then I'll switch back and I'll switch between massage. So I'll generally do the left shoulder, arm, and hand, and then I'll go down and I'll play with the genitals a little bit, do a little bit of spanking, then I'll go get that all warmed up, then I go to the other shoulder.

How much play with the genitals do you do?

Um, I like playing with genitals. I do, I do. I like playing with it a lot.

So men and women, when you see women too, or do you see women clients?

I do see women clients, and most of the time when I see women clients, it's in a couple's kind of situation. And what I'm doing is I'm not doing the actual playing with them or touching them, I'm directing their partner. On how to touch.

Okay, that's so good. I wish you could direct every partner how to touch. Exactly. So, so the men, you play with their genitals.

Okay, I might do that, do that, then go back and do a little bit of massage, and then go back and do a little more sensation play. You know, we've got some other kind of— and I didn't bring them because I'm teaching a listing this weekend, so it's all the soft stuff. But, you know, we've got like Wartenberg wheels, which are like the little pizza pinwheels, vibrating electric toothbrushes from Costco 4 to a pack for $13.99 are the best freaking sex toy.

Someone else was just telling me this. Oh my God, they left her toothbrush like years ago. People were like, oh, like, you know, before vibrators even.

But tell me, they are so crazy.

Battery operated?

They're battery operated. They're battery operated. You could throw them in the dishwasher afterwards and clean them. They last for 6 months or so. You can change the battery, or I just toss them. They are the best because especially with blindfolds and headphones, no one knows what they are, right? And you can use the back side of the, of the vibrating toothbrush, has a different sensation than the bristles. And it's enough vibration?

It's enough Vibration.

Sure, it's great. I love to use them on the nipples, on the balls, around that, around the asshole, you know, inside the thighs.

But why more than like a pocket rocket? Or just because they're cheaper and they're easier and they're disposable?

Absolutely. And there's, and there's more to them, right? You've got, you've got the bristles, you've got the backside of the toothbrush, you can turn it around and you can put a condom on and insert the handle, right? Right. Okay, so this is another thing that I, when I play No, no, no, no, that, that it's better to limit the number of items that you're playing with and kind of exploring what you can do with each item rather than having 57 million things out there and do 2 seconds of this and 2 seconds of that.

Oh, that's a great, that's a great point. That's a really great point because that's what my nightstand looks like and I always think I'm going to get someone over and we're going to do a bunch of stuff, but I have too many things. Right.

And then you have so many things and then, and then, and then, you know, you're, you're, you're doing something and then you're looking around going, oh, what should I do next? Focusing on what you're doing now. So like yesterday when we were at— when I was playing with Jaya, so we used this, right? And so you could use the feather duster, you can hit with a feather duster, you can use this to tap, you can use it to roll, kind of sensation play. I did an entire session one time with a wooden hairbrush, kind of thing, the same thing. You do like a dry brush scrub with the bristles, or you can hit with the bristles, right? You can do smooth rubbing with the back of the brush, or you can hit with the back of the brush. You can turn around and hit with the handle. It gives you a completely different sensation. And then, of course, you can put a condom on and insert it.

Right. Insert it into the man's— whatever. What do you think about anal? Let's talk about anal sex. Anal play for men.

Yes.

So, I talk about this a lot on the show. People have heard me say this. I think it's just a lot of men, straight men, have issues with it. And a lot of gay men too. They don't always have anal play. A lot of straight men are thinking, you know, it'll make me gay. It's a problem. But I'm always or, you know, I just don't want it. I don't like it. One time a girl stuck a finger in my butt and it was bad. And they, I was like, well, how sad if this is like, could be the most amazing sensation you could ever feel is like a prostate massage or something.

Right.

And, and you're never gonna feel it. And on your deathbed, somebody, you'd finally do it or something. And then you're like, oh my God, my whole life I could have been experiencing this. I am. So what have you found with men?

Like, well, because myself, right. With a partner 30 years ago accidentally slammed into me the wrong way. And I didn't let anybody touch my bottom for like 20 years.

I was just—

so I understand.

Right.

If you have a bad experience, it's like you're not going there.

Right.

And so I am really cautious, and I really like to— with— and this is what I teach too— is make them want it, make them want it more. So better to stay on the outside and tease them on the outside. You— in, in— there's a whole erotic massage training out there called sexological bodywork.

Yes, I almost did that at my school. I heard about it.

I know, I should be dancing, and it's, it's intense. So but they teach you to do a 2-hour anal massage. 1 hour outside.

That's why I didn't do it.

1 hour outside and 1 hour inside, and I didn't do it, but many of my practitioners have gone through Sexpot. It's called Sexpot. And when I watch them, they go so slowly, right? It is very meditative. You think about, like, if you've taken a nap in the middle of the afternoon and you wake up and you're kind of in that druggy state, that's kind of what you want to tap into. Or after you've had an orgasm and you're in that really soft kind of meditative thing. That's the place that you wanna work from.

Okay. So when you give an anus— so you're saying when you start with someone's anus, right, butt, you should go slowly around the rim.

Slowly around the rim. I work the outside, inside of the thighs really slowly. We do a lot of, I do, I talk a lot about, about, there's a whole chapter in the book about it, about different strokes and massage techniques that you can use, going, using a really like your, your ring finger is a very light finger to use with lots of lube.

Lots of layers.

Just around the outside, you could do a clock, you could do spirals. A really effective one that people tend to respond to often is just doing like pressing like a doorbell, right? And you're not going inside, you're just staying on the outside, but you're doing some pressure.

Okay.

And that's great, and that's all you need to do for maybe the first couple times you play. Make them ask for more.

Okay.

Make them raise the bar.

Because it feels good, they're like, yeah, right.

It feels good. You don't want to go, 2 seconds with this and then stick your finger in.

That's what everyone does, men and women. You're right, we think we got to rush it, we think we're running out of time, and, and so much again about sex is slow sex.

Absolutely. And then you talk, and then, you know, and porn doesn't help, right? Because you see things on kink.com or whatever, or I don't want to say anything like fisting, right? And it'll look really aggressive and hard, but when I fist, it's so soft, right? And it's minute and It's tiny little slow movements and it's pulling out instead of pushing in. And it's just so different than what you see. So you're not really learning well when you look at it.

That's why you should read your book and take your classes because people understand, right? People should not learn. Don't learn what you see. Don't learn from porn, really.

And a lot of the practitioners now are doing outside, doing, uh, teaching, starting to teach classes off the book.

The book just came out in last part of August, but it's a really good book because it's It's really like, it goes through every step what you need. It's very easy to read, easy to get through. You cover everything in here. I feel like it's, oh, I get that. I feel like I could do this. I'm like, I could go give this guy a massage, this guy I've been dating. Oh, good. Yeah, maybe. Okay. He likes to give me massages, but I should give him a massage. No, but I'm saying, I mean, I know what massage, but I just like, I love that you give the music. That's amazing.

And what I didn't want to do was give specific sequences because you really want to be kind of improvisatory. And it can be overwhelming. I remember, you know, beginning dommes and things, you know, you want to like set out the whole scene and stuff, and it's too much, right? You want to know how to start, you want to know like a couple of big points to cover, and then you really want to kind of go with the flow.

Okay, right, right.

Because if you have this whole script scripted out and then it's not working—

so talk to me about the couple work that you do then, because that's what you're talking about more, like people planning sequences and being like— because I think this can be really overwhelming. Like I talk about all the time, like just grab a blindfold and You know, play with your partner, pour some, you know, like, use them, use like my Emily and Tony massage candle, and you know, which turns into the most luxurious massage oil. You can pour it on you. It's like, did you put—

I did.

It's amazing. Isn't it amazing?

I know, it stays really, um, uh, really supple. I mean, it's got a really great consistency, so it's, it's—

yeah, it's not too drippy or tacky or sticky, but it like massages it. Yeah, I love it. And so, and so I'm like, oh, just blindfold your partner and use a candle and switch it up, use ice cubes. I think people just get overwhelmed with like I like what you said about it doesn't have to be a whole thing. It could just be like a fat— if you've never done anything, right? So that's good. Okay, that's a great— so let's say you, when you, your partner, you want to give a massage, pick through things. Get like, um, feather duster.

Get a feather duster. Get, um, electric toothbrushes from Costco.

I love this. I'm actually going to Costco and Home Depot this weekend.

Right.

So you've got—

and then get something, um, and then you can use your hands, you know, spanking for spanking. But it's not only spanking, right? You can do spanking, you can use your nails if you have nails, you can do little flicks, right? You can make up— make a fist and pound, right? So see how many different things you can use. The back of your hand to slap is different than the front of your hand to slap. Your fingers are different than your palm, right? Right. So, so there is a lot that you can explore. And you know, just in our culture, we're so bombarded with so many choices that— what do they say? A confused mind says no, right? So just limit it. Pick 3 things. Don't plan a whole 3-hour thing because it's It's too much. Just plan 15 minutes, 10 minutes. Just try this and just see where it goes.

And do you think it's better to say, tonight, honey, I'm giving you a massage, and tomorrow night you're giving me a massage?

Yes, correct. Yeah, I just like to focus on one person, one at a time, because otherwise it's like, okay, I'm done, now your turn, you know, kind of thing.

Right, exactly. And it's such a bummer when you're getting the massage, you're like, I gotta get up and do this after, to you?

Right.

So what do you think that the giver gets from this then?

I get really turned on. I really get turned on. I really do. It really works for me. I have a hard time receiving.

You know, so you don't get, so you don't have people do this work to you.

Oh, fuck no.

Really? That's hilarious.

You have to never, I've had parts of this. I, I used to play this way with my partners and things, people that, with, with that, that I would trust, right? Like I'd have sex with blindfolds on, like earbuds, headphones or something would be really fun. But even like, I have a practitioner, a couple of my practitioners are doms and one of them, I said, you know, have you ever had this? And she's like, oh, fuck no. And she said, have you? And I was like, oh no, I, when I get tied down, I freak out. Right.

Okay. So it's ironic. Not really that ironic.

Is it? It's funny though, you know?

Yeah, I know. I totally get it. I mean, I totally get it. It's, it's, I talk about relationships all the time and I never want a relationship.

Correct.

I mean, I give really good advice, but do I want a relationship? Hell no. I don't wanna commit to anyone, you know, but I get it. So, um, so, so are you okay? So couples come in and how do you think this can be healing and for couples, you know, or how do you see it play out?

How do I see it? And what, what, what kind of feedback do I get? Women, women, so many couples and so many women that I know start to get hate to get touched because even the slightest touch means, oh God, now you want to fuck me.

Right. Exactly.

So they just don't even want to get touched because it's never just going to be about giving you a shoulder rub. It's always going to be like, can I fuck you?

Exactly. Right. Exactly. So we're after the honeymoon phase is over, they touch you and you're like, you're just like sleep or something. Totally.

And so, and so this is, this is a great way for women to show men how they like to get touched. Right. And so, honey, let me just do this to you and let's have you receive, right. And see, and let me play with you because I know in my, in a lot of my relationships, I would start with this and then they get all turned on and the next thing I know it's all about me, right. Or whatever, you know, and it's all about the fucking things. And this is really great. It gets the guys out of the way and restrained, and then you get to go down and play and show them and tease them and show them what you like. And it's not all about the endgame.

Exactly. Now, what if she doesn't know what she likes because she's never had a sensual massage, but you're teaching her? I'm teaching her how to give to him, but then generally how she's doing it is how she would like to be touched, correct? Okay.

And so generally, that's the touch that we give is generally the touch that we like to get for the most part. I mean, there's times when you want it hard and slammed up against the wall and that kind of thing, but not in general, right? You can show them how you like, you can play around and just play around with different things. A lot of, a lot of times things that you would see that you'd be like, oh, fuck, no, I'd never do that. Once you're blindfolded and you don't know what it is, it's like, wow, that feels really amazing.

Exactly.

So some people, um, either go into the stingy thing, the stingy category, the thuddy category.

Oh, stinging or thudding.

Stinging or thuddy. So, and I'll just make a generality, but really skinny people tend to like stingy things and big people or people with flesh tend to like thuddy things.

Okay, so give me an example.

And so stingy things could be like a small, really small branch or it could be like a rubber band snap or it could be like a cane, some stingy kind of thing. Things. Or it could be the pinwheels, right? Or bamboo skewers if you want to use some pokey things, or a comb, um, vibrating toothbrushes. It can be like—

I'm like going to Costco tonight.

You can go to Longs or CVS and get them, get them at one at a time, right? Um, but then, and then thuddy things could be stingy, could also be spanking. It just depends on how you do it. If you do it with your fingers, it can be stingy. If you do it with the palm of your hand, it can be thuddy.

Okay. Got it. Now, what is it about spanking that has been like, I feel like, what do you, what, what's your theory about why like men like spanking women or women like the spanking or women like spanking men? Like whatever it is. I mean, it gets different for everyone, but does it go back to what, what do you think personally?

It could go back to childhood. Childhood, right? And, and, and if you're, no, or if you're not like an age like mine, like I'm 53. I mean, we used to get, we used to get sent to the principals and get a spanking, right? You know? Right. So it can be kind of this erotic erotic kind of connotation where you're first kind of exploring or figuring out about sex play and things like that, and then it gets tied in, right? And it just could be that you're using a lot of impact on the— and it resonates to the genitals, right? And you're bringing blood flow in there and circulation, and it's stinging and it feels really good.

Now, what about a guy who loves spanking but doesn't want to be spanked himself? Why?

That's fine.

But because he's feeling your energy from your— from spanking you, right?

Right? Right.

He doesn't just want to hurt you. I had a friend ask me this the other day. She was like, I don't understand, I don't understand. I'm like, well, it probably just turns him on to see you turn on and you turn on. But she's like, I am, but why would he want to? I'm like, it's hard to explain. A million reasons. I don't know.

Who cares? I mean, does it matter?

Like, no, she liked it. She said, I just don't get why he likes— I'm like, who cares if you like it? He likes it, it's fun.

Oh, she doesn't understand why he likes it?

Yeah.

I mean, look, she's lovely, bent over his lap, her butt looks great, it's all getting all nice and pink, she's wiggling around, she's getting wet.

What's not to like? Exactly. It's like, I'm like, really? Like, do we have to break everything down? I get emails all the time.

It's like, can you explain 'What's not to like?' I mean, it could be like this daddy fantasy or something, or it's just hot. You know, there's a great video out there. It'll be up on the Bondassage site too, and there's, there's a whole guy that has, I think he has 5 or 6 gorgeous women's bottoms up there and he's playing percussion on them.

Oh, that's great.

He does a whole song.

I love that.

It's all spanking.

I love it.

It's really hot.

That's amazing. So when did you, when you talked about that you in your earlier, before you started this, that you were really into like kinky play. Tell me about that. Like what, what, how did you know? Were you always kinky?

Like, I was always kinky. I was always kinky.

I Brad, like, what happened? Like, how did you— but at what age?

Well, I think it was my very first kinky kind of thing that I remember was watching the Three Stooges.

Okay.

And having the beautiful woman tied up in the mad scientist's, you know, office with the gorilla in the cage next door. And that was like my hottest fantasy when I was 5.

Wow. Right? When you were 5?

I swear, you know, it was like being tied down and having people do nasty things to you, right, was a real big turn-on, even though that's hard for me to do in real life, but fantasies aren't always reality.

You don't always have to act out your fantasies.

It's not— it's, it's— some things are meant to stay fantasies. And I have these come-to-Jesus moments with several people that want to do like forced buy or something because they think, oh, I really kind of want to suck another guy's cock, but I don't want to actually do it. But if you tell me to do it, then it takes the responsibility, right? And I have these come-to-Jesus things saying, you know, this is a really hot fantasy for you, and And if you like it, that's great, but most of you guys are married, and what are you going to do with that now? Exactly. And if you don't like it, then that just kind of wrecked it, right?

Right, exactly.

So some things, you know, like gang rape scenes are meant to be fantasies and not meant to do this.

So real quick, what is the come to Jesus thing? That's new to me.

Oh, the come to Jesus? Oh, come to Jesus talk? It's like— oh, you go ahead.

No, no, go ahead.

No, no, no, it's just kind of like, let's sit down and really talk this out. I mean, it's It's the come to Jesus is, all right, this is fun to kind of talk around and stuff, but let's sit down and dissect this because really, if we are going to do this, there are going to be some— there could be some repercussions. I had a fabulous— I had a fabulous client that came.

It's just a saying that you say like in life, like if you and I were having an issue and there's something interesting, we need to come to Jesus. Come to Jesus moment where I'm going to tell you that you've been messing up this whole night. Right.

Okay.

But you haven't been.

No, you've been fabulous.

I think I'm sitting here quietly. Good.

Do you have any questions so far? Like, as a man, like, are you hearing—

the main thing I was wondering, okay, that's a whole thing.

Nothing about your anus or anything?

Yeah, I thought the 2 hours was excessive.

Oh, 2 hours is excessive?

You know, it sounds like a bad time in prison.

Yeah, 2 hours is excessive for what?

For that, that, uh, class where you learn to massage the inside.

Oh my God. Oh, the 2-hour anal massage during sexological bodywork. We won't make you do that. Yeah.

Okay.

Um, okay, so you started out—

so, okay, so in your relationships, we're all kind of, kind of kinky, and I like to top. I like to top off my boyfriends. Yeah.

Okay. That's good. Right. Okay. And then, so, so when your couples come in, are they both usually consenting and they're like, I should— they're always consenting, but, but, but is it ever like he has— is it both of them? Like sometimes the woman comes in or the man or gay, straight, whatever it is.

Typically what happens is the guy will contact me first and I never set anything up until I have a conversation with a woman.

Okay.

Because sometimes it can be, I'm only doing this because he wants to. And I'm like, you know, you don't have to do this. This, right?

Right.

Right. And I— in my first goal is to protect the women, right? It's, it's, it really is, is about them. So I have conversation, we talk about a lot of, a lot of different things about what they're doing in their play, what they kind of want to explore. Some people just don't know how to flog or something, you know. I mean, it's not something you gotta go buy them up.

How do you even teach? We should do— we're gonna do a little video, little video after this. You're going to show me how to— we're going to show little things after this. Okay, check out the website, sexfamily.com. And we should— because like the spanking thing, like, I know I've had people It's like that up motion, it depends, right? You never want to hit the lower back by mistake. People can do things, they can get hurt, injured if they do the spanking wrong, right? Or some people want to be injured, maybe, I know.

No, but it would take, it'd be, it'd take a lot. That's why you want to spank the butt because there's so much muscle there, right? It's, it's kind of difficult. You'd have to hit really hard. I bet you get carpal tunnel before you hurt somebody spanking them.

Okay, really? What about the bruising and stuff like that?

So bruising, some people bruise easily because they're taking aspirin. They have blood thinners, that kind of stuff can make you bruise easily. Hands, things that you're hitting with larger surface areas aren't going to mark as much as something small and tiny. So, smacking them with a rubber band is going to leave a mark. Hitting them with your hand or a hairbrush is not going to make a mark.

So, if someone thinks they don't like S&M and they're not into that or BDSM, they could still enjoy bondage, right? Absolutely, because you start with soft things. Absolutely. They want to take it to another level.

Absolutely. And then not everything's going to work, right? I mean, things that you thought you might like, you try and you don't like. And also, if you stick to only 3 or 4 things during your playtime, you really get to explore. So maybe you don't like the vibrating toothbrushes on your nipples, but maybe you like them in between your toes, or maybe you like them on the back of your neck, you know, or keep exploring.

You never know. People don't know. That's the thing is that I think about massage and giving your partner massages, that there's so many more erogenous zones that you don't even know about. Like, who knew the back of your knee felt amazing with electric toothbrushes? You might never know that. You wouldn't have known if you didn't get your primary zone.

And when I was doing research for the book, we found this whole ancient 2,000-year-old thing about primary, secondary, and tertiary erogenous zones, and they had a whole sequence. So your nipples and genitals are your primary, and then the secondary would be kind of like the nape of your neck or the inside of your knees. And then you have like tertiary ones, which are like the outside of your pinky. And so they have this whole thing where you start with tertiary, so you start with the, the far away ones, and then you go to the secondary ones, and you go to the first ones, and you go to the third ones, you know. So it's this whole kind of formula where there's so much more.

There is so much more. You didn't— you talk about the different—

it's in the book.

Yeah, on the book, Bondassage. Everyone should check it out. It's, uh, B-O-N-D-A-S-S-A-G-E, and it's Jaylene Bennis. And you can check this out at our site. And what are your upcoming classes and trainings as well?

I'm doing a practitioner training this Saturday in, in down here in Los Angeles.

Okay.

I train people one-on-one, and then there's some group training. So it's all on the website. Right.

Okay. There's, there's a, so they can, they can check us on this. And then quick question I have to ask you about Fifty Shades of Grey, because do you think that that has, what do you think that says about culture, uh, culture and women who are like, are devouring the book and men? Like, I'm always saying like my, my male listeners, like, read, you should read the book then if you're curious, if you wanna know why your partner or every woman you date is so turned on by it, that's one thing. Like men should educate themselves as well. But what do you think it is, is about women? Cause it's not like a very, it's a poorly written book.

It is, but it's got some hot sex scenes.

It does.

Yeah, and it came out at the right time because, right, you could read it on your Kindle and nobody knew what you're reading, right? So you don't have the COVID right? And so, um, and it gets people talking about this. I think it's really, really fabulous.

It helped your business a lot, okay?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I have a lot of the practitioners work with couples too, and some people are even doing Skype consultations with couples and things like that.

I think that's so smart. Skype, do it in the comfort of your own home, and then you could like figure out what to do, or, you know, if you're curious about about, you know, spicing things up, changing your relationship. Like, maybe this is a—

absolutely. You don't have to come see me in person. You can come. Yeah, that's great.

They can get a Skype consult with you, get your book, watch the videos, um, buy my massage candles, which are fabulous. I'm so glad you like it. And then, you know, like, this is perfect. Yeah.

But not only could you use it for massaging, you can use it for temperature play, right?

Right.

So you can drip it on the skin. And, you know, with—

have you talked about candle? Talk about it. Yeah, a little bit. But go ahead.

A little bit, right? So you don't want to the candles because they're too hot, right? And so the closer you are to the skin, the hotter it's going to be. So you want to start it high and drip and drip it lightly. And this is so wonderful because you can just drip it over and then you can just—

it's not even hot, it's warm. It's not even if you're— yeah, it can never get— you're not going to burn your partner, correct? Right.

So unless you get the flame too close to their pubic hair, right?

Don't do that. We don't want that. Kids go up in flames. Well, thank you so much for being here.

My pleasure.

Body Massage is the book. Check it out on my website. Thanks, Anderson. Anything else that you need to share? Are you excited to get a massage?

I want to solve your—

we're gonna practice flogging on him.

We are. We're gonna flog you after this.

I'm down for whatever for the show.

Okay, good. I love you. Okay, everyone, check me out on Facebook and Twitter, Sex with Emily, Instagram, Sex with Emily. And thanks everyone for listening. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithemily.com. Hi, I'm Emily from sexwithemily.com. Do you want to last longer in bed? Promescent is the only FDA-approved treatment for premature ejaculation. One in 3 men suffer from premature ejaculation. They don't have to. Go to promescent.com to get the desensitizing spray that will allow you to have the sex you deserve.