Take Your Sex Life from Stale to Sexy, Part 1

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Everything takes priority over the relationship. Essentially, relationships die by being ignored. 80% of them said that fun had come to die in their relationship.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. It's the number one question I get asked as a sex educator. Our sex life is stale. How do we make it hot again? Well, for long term couples, this issue is so common it's almost a cliche. Once you're married, say goodbye to your sex life. Ha ha. Except it's not funny, right? It's actually pretty painful once the new relationship energy wears off and we no longer have that magical chemical cocktail running through our veins. Well, that's why I'm so pleased to be doing a two part best of special on this precise topic. Kicking things off with sex educator Ian Kerner, author of the iconic book she Comes first and his latest. So tell me about the last time you had sex. I'm also sharing advice from doctors John and Julie Gottman of the Gottman Institute, who have led some of the most comprehensive studies on successful couples and the key ingredients of their success, which, by the way, includes a great sex life. Of course, I'm pulling out the best of the best of their advice and techniques so so you could try them for yourself and bring excitement and pleasure back to your relationship and the bedroom. Intentions with Emily for each episode, I wanna start off by setting an intention for the show, and I encourage you to do the same. So when you're listening, what do you wanna get outta the episode? How can it help you? My intention is to compile some of the top tips for keeping your relationship hot that you can even try. Tonight. Rain review Sex with Emily Wherever you listen to the show, we read all your reviews. It really helps us. Thank you so much. And we've got tons of new articles@sexwithemily.com, check those out. And also check out my YouTube channel for more sex tips and advice. If you want to ask me a question, call my hotline, 559-talk-SEX or 559-825-5739. Leave me your questions or just message me sex with emily.com ask emily. All right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

As you listen to the show, you'll hear us explore a lot of ideas for evolving your sex life in a more stimulating direction. But here are my top three pieces of advice on the topic, and I'd love for you to keep these in mind as you listen. First, a great sex life has to do with your body and your mind. In other words, it's not just physical, it's deeply psychological, too. But don't let that scare you. The psychological part, that's just going to help you understand that it's more complex than just what's going on in your body. And I'm here to help you figure it all out. Second, expect nre, or new relationship energy to wear off. It's not a sign that anything's wrong or that you don't want each other anymore or that you should end the relationship. Believe me, I used to think that. I thought if I didn't want to have sex with them in the same way I did, you know, during the honeymoon phase, then it should be over. No, this is where the work begins. But it's fun work. It just means that we have to understand different ways for activating arousal. Once the novel becomes familiar, that's what happens. It's going to happen to all of us. The reality is you're not going to be turned on the minute your partner walks in the room. Especially if you've been together for a while. You have to create that spark and the tension, okay? That's the work. Finally, are you taking responsibility for your own pleasure? Think about it. How can we expect anyone else to know what we like in bed if we don't know it ourselves? So if you want better coupled sex, invest heavily in your solo sex routine. Get to know your turn ons, get to know what feels good, pay attention to your body. And it doesn't have to just be during masturbation. It could just be, you know, when you're in the shower and you're sudsing up, like, where does it feel good to be touched? You know, what are your arousal zones? We have so many different parts of our body that feel good. So just start becoming an expert in your own body and what it wants. All right, on to the show. Let's kick things off with Ian Kerner, who explains what a sex script is and how to know if you're trapped in a dynamic that, that no longer serves you or the relationship.

I believe that every sexual event tells a story. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end. There's a sequence of interactions that are of course physical, but they're also emotional, they're psychological. And you put them together and that creates what I call a sex script. And I believe that most couples, especially ones that start to settle into long term relationships, kind of have a sex script. And, and if it works, they're not coming to see me. And if it doesn't work, they are coming to see me. And there's something about the sex script that's reinforcing the problem that they're having. Okay, so I literally want to help couples rewrite their sex scripts away from the problem and towards pleasure.

Okay, so let's talk about this sex script, which you spend a lot of time unpacking in the book, chapter by chapter, with homework assignments in every chapter that really just. I mean, couples can take this at their own pace. I mean, they might find that just even in the first chapter, they stay there for a while after those homework assignments with the second chapter. Because you give it, you, you give so much in this book. Like I could just feel so much of yourself and so much of your years of doing this work. So let's talk about the sex script. How would you explain that? And also, is there a common sex script?

Interestingly, about 90 to 100% of my heterosexual couples, if I ask them, tell me about the last time you had sex. And I'm not using this like oh, we're rewriting a sex script. Like that's sort of what's in my head. I'm just asking them to tell me about the last time they had sex. Half the time they don't even remember. They're arguing about when they had sex. They can't even agree on it. But with heterosexual couples especially, I would say 90% to 100% either had intercours in their last sex script or wanted to have intercourse and failed to. And if I asked most heterosexual couples, well, how long did it take you to get to intercourse? Most of my couples will say 2 minute, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes. If we're getting to 7 minutes, we're already getting extended. I'm not kidding you.

I mean, I know I.

You know, so.

So the sex script is so dominated by this one behavior.

What I love about your book is that you don't center on penetration. You do not center it on penis goes into vagina, and that is sex, which forever. You know, I think a lot of people in our field are trying to expand the definition of sex into what if you just kiss one night? What if it's just oral sex? What if it's mutual masturbation? All of that can count as your last time you had sex. However, what you're finding is, and this is the couples that I hear from mostly too, there's no warmup, there's no foreplay. It goes right to penetration. Just to get it over and check it off the list. And there's probably not as much satisfaction in that.

Absolutely.

And they can choose from those 12 acts. We could still choose from those acts, but we don't.

Right. Choose from those 12 behaviors. Studies also show that the more behaviors you put together, the more likely people are to experience pleasure and orgasm. So create your own personalized, idiosyncratic sex scripts that work for you. Like, why does this one behavior of penis and vagina for heterosexual couples have to dominate and overshadow sort of the way we have sex when a we know it's the sexual behavior that contributes most to the orgasm gap. Right. That's obvious. Like a penis in a vagina just doesn't really stimulate the clitoris very much. And I deal with so many cases of performance anxiety that are all centered around intercourse. So one of the reasons so many men that I work with focus so much on intercourse is because they're like, holy shit, I have an erection. I gotta do this thing right now.

I guess that's what it is. I never really thought about that. Way. I think that. And they also believe then that not only do I not have other options really, but that's going to be the most satisfying option because maybe it has been up until now. So what we're saying is the elements of the sex script, there's way more than 12 acts, right? Did you find that or are there common acts?

Let's just say for now that there's 12 sort of common behaviors. There's going to be more behaviors. Now then the question is, there's two questions. One, how should those behaviors be organized? Right? Because you could have a certain behavior that's sequenced in the wrong way. Right. A lot of women will complain to me, you know, like, I don't mind oral sex, giving, receiving, but, like, for it to be the first thing, it's like, that just doesn't feel good. You know, it could be a great activity, but it's potentially at the wrong time.

Right.

The other thing that I think that is really important to the book is that I don't think that sex scripts should simply be reduced to behaviors. I think that that is the problem. So often, even for couples who have working sex scripts, they're living so much in the physical domain and not in the psychological or the erotic domain. So it's like once, you know, sort of maybe what the physical sequence of your sex script can be, how do you make that really erotically alive?

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the psychological. Because we always say the brain is the largest sex organ. How do we get our brain on board? What are some of those psychological? So, sorry, you start with the sex script and you figure out the acts that feel good. Because that's sort of. Are you saying that's the basis where we understand. We're like, okay, I really like to sing. I like massage. I like oral. I like using a finger here. But how do you get your brain on board? And this is where we get into desire.

So one element that I didn't describe, which I should have said is, like, when I'm asking a couple about their sex script, I'm really guiding them. I'm saying, so how did you initiate? Who initiate? How did you end up. Of all the things in the world you could have been doing, how did you end up having sex? Oh, okay, great. Someone initiated.

And.

Well, how did you begin to cultivate arousal? Like, did you. Do you undress yourselves? Do you undress each other? Like, what happens? Is it interesting? And then, well, how do you get going? How do you get absorbed in this sex, like, are you present? Are you distracted? How do you get focused and then, wow, how are you building up that momentum towards, you know, orgasm? Is orgasm important? Are they happening both at the same time, one after the other, not happening at all? What happens after the orgasm? Do you connect? Are you staying there? Are you reaching for the iPhone and then home? What happens in between sexual events? Is there, like, an erotic thread? Does eroticism stay alive? So I am, like, hearing all of this, and I'm getting data back, and a couple might say, you know what? We don't even initiate. If sex happens, it's just because one of us feels obligated, or.

We get going, but he loses his erection, or, I'm never really into it, you know? So, Emily, I'm listening for all of the problems in the sex script, but I'm listening for the first problem, because that's the first problem that I can target, and I can give them homework, and then they can come back and we can work our way through every element of rewriting the sex script.

That's so good. So if they say to you, I'm just not in the mood, and he loses his direction, but how do you start talking to them about arousal then getting actually in the mood for it, not just going through the motions?

Absolutely. We're talking in this phase. We're talking about arousal. We're talking about absorption. Right? Just getting absorbed in the moment. Just getting present. And then I will often ask a couple, you know, they'll tell me the activities that they're engaging in, and I'll learn that they'd like more foreplay. Or I'll get a sense of kind of the physical behaviors. But then I'll ask them. I always ask them, I'll say, so what kind of, like, psychological arousal do you generate? And it's kind of like a leading question, because you know that everyone's gonna say, what are you talking about?

Exactly?

Right?

Yeah. They're like, none. What? Right? Yeah.

What do you mean, psychological arousal? And I'll say, well, listen, we know for a fact that there are women who can fantasize their way to orgasm. I know for a fact when I'm working with men who have erectile unpredictability and I want to give them a homework assignment. I'll sometimes say, hey, next time you're putting on some really hot porn, I want you to wait five minutes before you touch your penis and tell me what happens. And those guys will come back and say, hey, I had a pretty decent erection. And once I did Touch it. I was really had a good erection. So that's the power of psychological arousal. It's hands free. What are you doing? That's hands free. That's touch free to generate arousal. And why are you doing this with yourself and not with your partner?

Because we're never taught, we're never taught anything about this at all. We don't understand it. We just go towards sex because it's pleasurable until it's not. Right, exactly. Because I think this happens in most relationships. I really do. I mean, after what, after the honeymoon phase is over?

The honeymoon phase is amazing because, you know, A, we got a nice little neurochemical cocktail backing us up and B, there's so much excitement just in not knowing somebody and wanting to learn about somebody, you know, so it's all new, it's all exciting, it's all new, it's all exciting. So you know what I. You know what I love, Emily, is that once I explain it in these terms, every couple I meet is says we want more of that, we want that. We're ready for that. We don't have it. How do we get it?

Okay, right.

That's million dollar question.

That is the million dollar question.

So I think complicated questions really have simple answers. You know, I really do believe that. So I think it's important to engage in what I call the cultivation of psychogenic stimulation. That's the clinical term. And I think that there's two ways of doing that. I think it can be face to face and I think it can be side by side. And by face to face. You know what I mean by face to face, Emily? You watch two little kids or three little kids, five or six year olds, playing in a playground. They're making something up. They have no props, except maybe a twig to be a gun or who knows what, or a jungle gym to be a castle. With nothing but their imaginations, they. They're actually creating worlds and characters that have power structures that if we played those same games as adults, they'd be really hot, they'd be really charged, you know, so face to face psychogenic stimulation is being able to not just pull out a vibrator, not just grab a set of handcuffs. It's really being able to reach into your own psyche and begin to share something that turns you on. And it's crazy to me that so many of us either can't do that, won't do that, think we shouldn't need to do that, or believe they don't even have those fantasies or don't know that.

Right. Well, we don't. I mean, this is what we hear all day, every day. People think, well, I hear what you're saying, Emily. We should talk about our fantasies or we should role play. But that's just awkward. We've been together forever. Like they're gonna laugh, like, yeah, it's all those reasons. I can't, I won't, I have, I don't have any fantasies.

But I agree, but. So I'll sit down with that couple and I'll say, but listen, we've agreed that you need psychogenic stimulation. And I sometimes say, you know, we need a different on road into arousal or we need like a different on ramp or we need an arousal Runway. Those two terms, like an arousal Runway and an on ramp, people kind of like relate to those terms, you know.

Great one.

And I'll say, then, you know, I think that we gotta do some side by side psychological arousal. And that's really simple. I just want you to take in together some sexy media. I don't care if it's reading erotic literature aloud. I don't care if it's listening to an erotica podcast. I don't care if it's listening to audio porn. I don't care if it's watching ethical porn, which is always interesting because everyone will then say ethical porn. And then that gets me to give them a whole nother speech.

Exactly.

And deconstruct their ideas about porn. But like I said, complicated issues have simple answers. Yeah. Then taking something really sexy together with the shared aim of letting it get you aroused, maybe get into a little mutual masturbation, you know, while it's happening, you know, like let's say somebody says.

Yeah, but porn is wrong, or it makes me feel bad or I, it's against my beliefs.

Right. First of all, I can try and make it fun. I can try and make it like that version of the Newlywed Game. I can say I want you to pick erotica or porn that doesn't turn you on necessarily, but you think is going to turn on your partner. And then that always, oh, that's fun. Yeah, that becomes fun. And then I will say, like, listen, I don't really care what you do. Like, look, I grew up old school. I'm a kid of the 70s and 80s. We didn't have the Internet. We had books, we had literature, we had the story of. Oh, we had Emmanuel.

Emmanuel. Yeah, exactly.

So first of all, I will really. People will, most of the time, one or both partners will dismiss porn. And I really just Want to explain? Wear that as a conversation. I want to say, great, you're definitely not going to watch porn. I just want to know why. Right? Because there's a lot in there, like, oh, it's objectifying, or, oh, I'm afraid that that's what he or she is going to think I want to do. Oh, because it's sleazy. Oh, because the actors don't want to be there. And then I can sort of just lightly challenge all of those assumptions. So I do believe I will never push anything, but I always want to challenge people a little.

Right.

You know, and then, Emily, the other thing I do is everything. For me, it's like, you know, the book is very structured, Right. And my sessions are very structured. Like I always say, like, listen, I just want to do an experiment. We're just bringing data back. So I don't even want you to have sex. If you go and have sex, that's your own business. But I just want you to do a limited experiment of watching this erotic media together or taking it in. And I just want you to bring me back the data from that, you know, sort of like.

Like what happened. Yeah.

And so then that leads to the second session. You know, some will say, you know what? We really couldn't not have sex. We just had to. We were turned on. Or some will say, like, we actually never did it. We just never got there. And then that becomes interesting, like, why? So I guess what I'm saying is, like, the idea of a sex script is really breaking things into smaller units and then just addressing those units with a focus and getting some just interesting experience back from that.

Right. So now we've got a lot more tools to work with to create an arousal Runway and write a sex script that works even better for you. Now let's hear from Ian as he talks about fantasy and how to wrap any sexual behavior with erotic psychology.

What we're talking about now is moving from the side by side to the face to face. Right. We want people bringing their erotic selves into the picture. They've engaged psychologically and they got aroused. Like, look, Emily, this could be a couple that now has a new on road into sex, which always involves watching some ethical porn or reading something or getting turned on. Right. That might be their sweet spot for a little while, but you're talking about something different, which is, how do we begin to bring our erotic selves into. I have a few ways of doing that, you know, in every first session. And I give this as a homework assignment in the Book. I'll ask a couple. So look, now we know about the problem. We sort of know about the sex script that's reinforcing the problem. I want to ask you if we work together for not that long, like two or three months, and we meet each other every couple, two or three weeks with the homework in between. And let's say, like, what month are we in? Right now we're in, like, April, mid April. Let's just say by June. Not too far away at all. Things are actually getting better. I want you to, first off, tell me what does better look like. They're reconstructing the sex script for me. They're saying, like, oh, like, he's going to, like, just come at me with, like, more desire. Like I'm going to really feel, or I'm going to feel her desire more palpably, or we're going to really engage in some great oral sex. Or we're going to start to play with, like, some power, something that we've already always wanted to write. So they're going to start to tell me about the solution. Right? So we've moved from problem to solution. My job then is to raise the temperature in the room a little, and around that solution, turn it into a fantasy. So, okay, so what does that mean? Like, you want him to desire you a lot more? Do you want him to say something? Do you want him to do something? Yeah, I want him to push me up against the wall and tell me he wants to fuck me.

Right.

You know, like, wow, okay. Like, that's. That's not something he probably does. Or it's not the way you talk about putting together the shopping list. Right. So you sort of want to like. Like want you or hunger for you or almost want you to be objectified in those moments. Right. So I'm just working with them to build the fantasy right there.

And then. And then he might say, well, I don't know how to do that, or that feels weird, or how to write. And then do you tools to do it as well?

Yeah, I do, but I feel like the main thing that they need is permission from each other. Like, once they've sort of talked about a little more, like, it's okay to come up to me and just, you know, bite me on the neck. It's permission and it's getting them to get in touch with their erotic self. So sometimes people will come back and say, yeah, I picked out the porn for him. It was a POV of a blowjob, because I know he loves blow jobs. And I hate it. Why is everything a blow job? Well, that's interesting. Do you like blowjobs? Yeah, I do. He'll say, yeah, I really do like blowjobs. Is it simply because it's a lubricated mouth with some friction of a hand against your penis? I mean, that could be just you masturbating, right, with some lube and your hand. No, no. I like it because it's. It's makes me feel like. Like she totally loves me or it makes me feel like I'm totally empowered. Oh, it makes you feel, like, really loved or makes you feel powerful. Right. There were then we're getting to even a sexual behavior or a body part, it contains an erotic element. It contains an element of fantasy. So when I think. When people think about fantasy, they're getting way too ambitious. They're feeling like I have to be, like, so super creative. Like, I want to be anally probed by my alien husband, flying saucer after coming out of suspended animation.

Like, it could just be next level of the blowjob or what it makes you feel to receive oral. Yeah, it's all. It's all in the feelings. So I'm glad you brought up blow jobs, because I hear from so many men and women in heterosexual relationships, the man might say, my partner won't do it. She won't like it. She won't swallow. She will never, never do it. She just swears it off. And then I hear from the women who are like, I just don't like it. How can I learn to like it? And I can bet that you, Ian Kerner, have successfully encouraged couples or, like, gotten them to get to the point where they do.

I do. Emily. Like, first of all, though, I want to say, look, you live to be my age, which is actually living to be. I'm getting up there in years, right? You deal with, like, so many sexual problems. You realize there are so many paths to pleasure, first of all. So I'm not gonna ever. I hate when couples get so hung.

Up on the blowjob. I agree. Let it go. Do something else.

There are so many paths to pleasure. The other thing that I really try and do is say anything you do, whether it's a blowjob, whether it's intercourse, whether it's a kiss, it can have some kind of psychological meaning. It can be the most loving, romantic kiss. It can be the most passionate kiss that oral sex can come from. Like, look, you can go to any porn site. And oral sex can be done as femdom. Domination, right? Or it can be done as a mourning, loving act. Like, we're not watching just to see the penis in the mouth. We're watching for the psychological context. So I always want to come back to, well, what's the psychological intention behind what you want to convey? It doesn't always have to be the same thing. It can be something different every day, you know?

Right. So what you're saying is we don't have to force everybody to learn to love blowjobs or going down on their partner. It's like when people want to have a threesome or all the things it's like, how else can you get that same feeling? What are the other paths to pleasure?

How can you wrap a behavior in like a really nice gift wrapping? That's really a turn on. And listen, you know, once you know something about, you know, human sexual anatomy, right? And you gotta, we, we know, right? Like when a fetus is in the womb, it's not until like seven or eight weeks that it's determined is that fetus gonna become a boy or a girl or, or, or intersex. Most of the time it's gonna become a boy or a girl. So it's not like once that's determined, like the material, the tissue goes away. It just gets used in a different way, right? So we all share common tissue, common sexual function. And once you learn some basic principles of stimulating, right? Like once you learn, like, hey, you know, like a penis really responds to friction at the head and the glands, right? And lubrication can help with that friction. And it really responds to pressure at the base. And you can really express, experiment with friction and pressure. And it's sort of going to be those two things in combination with some psychological input, some sound, some, some, some emotion. Like, well, then you don't have to like, swallow, right? You don't have to like, deep throat. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. In fact, you should do the things that are going to be within your safe space, within your good feeling space. And that can be sexy.

Let's take a short break. When we come back, the Gottmans talk to us about communication patterns and what the research says about great sex.

How does poor communication tank our sex life? And what can we do to improve it? The Gottmans explain why conflict management skills outside the bedroom is key to overall relationship satisfaction.

One of the things, Emily, that I would really love to see are high school kids getting a class in relationships, right? Because all those patterns get started so early and they don't particularly change that much in adulthood. So if kids knew that criticism doesn't work if you're dating somebody, if they knew that, it really helps to take responsibility for what you contributed to a negative incident and how to do that without kind of losing yourself. I think it would be tremendously helpful for kids. And they would probably end up making better choices of life partners later on.

Absolutely. I mean, there's so much lacking in education for our youth. I always say that I wish they had comprehensive, accurate sex education, but to throw in communication.

Right.

So you're talking about kids, though, and tell me what you think about this, because I do. I see it all the time, that having kids is going to change your relationship in many ways.

Absolutely.

I hear from people when it's the sex, they stop having sex, they stop initiating sex. And so how much of that. Have you ever talked to couples about that?

Yeah, one of the things that we discovered was that, and this was backed up by a study done at UCLA by the Sloan Institute, that especially for dual career couples, a lot of times everything takes priority over the relationship. The children do, the career does, and essentially relationships die by being ignored, and they stop really having romance and playfulness and fun and adventure. You know, we found in a very large study we did that of couples about to start therapy, 40,000 couples, gay, lesbian, and heterosexual couples, 80% of them said that fun had come to die in their relationship. And that's what the Sloan study found as well, is that people stop really romancing one another. They stop playing together and having fun and, you know, really having an erotic life with one another.

A lot of new parents find sex going over a cliff. And I think, you know, there's a lack of real understanding of what's happening there. And when we did our study, which was part of our book Bringing Baby Home, what we saw is that couples, first of all underestimated how much work a child is. They underestimated the effects of sleep deprivation. And what research has shown about sleep is that you don't have to actually have less hours of sleep, but after 30 days of interrupted sleep, you are going to show almost every clinical sign of depression, including.

A loss of sex drive. So, you know, it's very typical for parents who are losing sleep, of course, with a new child to get more irritable, feel exhausted all the time, just want to think about the baby and nothing else, and they forget how to really connect with one another, prioritize time with one another. I've seen couples, for example. It's really fun of who? They would have a date a month, an overnight, where, you know, grandma and grandpa would come in, take care of the baby, they'd go for a date, and they would go to a hotel, you know, thinking it would be really romantic. What would they do? They'd both fall asleep, which is the.

Most romantic thing ever. No one woke us up for nine hours. And it was hot.

Oh, man.

It's true. And it's. I mean, I love that we're normalizing this, because it's funny. Every time someone has a baby or they go through the situation, they think they're the only ones. I can't believe this is happening. And then you're so in it, it's almost too late. I mean, it's never too late, but it's almost like they just. They can't even think their way out of it. Yes, I want to get back into conflict for a minute. And in relationships, because that's a lot of what we. You know, there's so many conflicts and there's so many problems that people just won't get past. They might know good therapy. And I've always said it seems like you're repeating the same things over and over, and then Hearing your stat, 69% of conflicts are never solved. And in fact, they stay the same so over years. So, like, this is never going to change. But then. Yet we call these relationships still successful. How is that possible?

Well, here's the thing. You know, the question about successful relationships isn't do they solve all their problems? It's again, how do they dialogue about those problems? How do they dialogue? Right. So, you know, you were talking about compromise. Well, one of the things that is really, really important is taking the time to really understand your partner's point of view about a particular conflict and where it comes from, what it's about for them. What's the history behind that? Childhood history, other relationship history? Why is it so important to you that you have this particular position on the issue really lived? What is the underlying sense of purpose and meaning for you in having your position on the issue honored? And when you have that kind of conversation with one person as the listener and the other as the speaker, and that listener just staying with question after question to really understand the other person's point of view and then reversing the roles so there's deeper understanding, then compromise becomes so much easier because you develop compassion and a much deeper appreciation for your partner's internal world regarding their position on a conflict issue.

Could you maybe give me some Examples about how a conflict that stays the same, but how you kind of learn to judge it so it works in a way.

We call this the dreams within conflict. And we analyzed 950 of these conflicts that seemed like deal breakers. You know, where they're opposed to each other and compromise seems unthinkable. Because in these deal breakers, you're kind of selling yourself out. If you compromise, that's the way it feels. And so after we analyzed that, and we also saw that in our own relationship as well, we found that some of these unsolvable problems become the points of better connection. We really learned it from the couples in the lab who, you know, took these deal breakers and asked each other questions that deepened their understanding of their partner's point of view. And Julie really is the one who was insightful enough to see that this was an important therapy technique because of her background as a therapist.

Wow, you guys are like couples goals. We heard from Ian Kerner earlier on Sex Scripts. Now let's hear from the Gottmans on sexual self discovery and consistent connection. Can you talk about what are the traits of couples that you found that have a great sex life?

The largest study ever done on this question was done with 70,000 couples and in 24 different countries. And they had that one question. What's different about people who say they have a great sex life compared to people who say they have a bad sex life? And, you know, reading that study, I was able to list about a baker's dozen of things that people did who had a great sex life. And none of them had to do with what happened in the bedroom. They were all things like, people have a great sex life, tell each other. They, they love them and mean it every day. They ask questions, they give compliments, they give surprise romantic gifts. They cuddle. They, you know, they know their partners preferences sexually. They know their partner's sort of inner world of desire, what turns them on and turns them off. And, you know, they really stay good friends. And that's so fascinating, I think.

Yeah, I think also successful couples are really, really good at both initiating and refusing sex without putting pressure on the other person. So I'll give you an example. I had a couple where he wanted more sex than she did. This was a hetero couple. And she had had a history of sexual abuse. And so when he would initiate and she would refuse, he would get angry at her. And the anger felt like a reenactment of the sexual abuse in the sense that if she didn't conform to his desire and do what he wanted, then she was a bad person. Right. And that's oftentimes how a perpetrator will make a sexual abuse survivor feel.

She's re traumatized every time, right?

That's right. So she was re traumatized every single time. I mean, it was a very, very difficult case, very difficult situation. But what ended up happening that really, really helped is this was a woman who came from a deeply religious background and had never had anything more than a kiss on the cheek. He had been married three times before and was a porn addict. Right. So what he expected of her was complete pornographic sex, basically with him in control all the time. And it was scheduled according to his needs, which was three times a week at 9pm so we stopped all of the sex. She had no idea of what she liked at all. Zero. Because it had all been his preference.

And so I gave her one of my favorite books in the whole wide world by Lonnie Barbach, called For Yourself Female Sexuality.

I told my mom when I was like 20, I never had an orgasm. I didn't know what masturbation. I was like 20 something in college. My friends, I said, mom, I never even had an orgasm. She gave me that book, Lonnie Barbach For Yourself. And I still have it on my shelf. It was my first masturbation book. Anyway, I've never hear anyone else bring it up. So that was a moment. Okay. Yeah. Lonnie Barbach.

Yeah.

Your mother was just spot on. Good for her, because it. It's one of the best books ever written for women. And Lonnie went on to create programs to help women with their own sexuality videos, more books and so on. She's. She's really been a huge contributor, especially for women in the field of sex. So this woman read the book, did all the exercises by herself, and by the end of about eight months or so, which is what it took her, during which they were abstinent, by golly, then she could ask him for what she needed and what she wanted. And the reality was that, you know, he knew she wasn't there really emotionally, she was more like a zombie who was putting up with his sexual needs. And he missed her. He missed her. He felt lonely. He felt disconnected when they had sex. So now they were able to move back into having a sexual relationship in which both of their needs mattered, with hers mattering first.

More so and then eventually reaching a balance where they were so much more fulfilled because.

She learned what she loved sexually and sensually and could convey that, had to tell him specifically. And this woman didn't know she had a clitoris. Right.

But a lot of women don't. But what I love that you're saying, and it reinforces something that we talk about a lot here, is that a lot of people, we just haven't done the work. We just. A lot. And a lot of women who were raised it could be more performative during sex or just kind of give up and kind of fake orgasms. It just, you have to take time. Might be eight months, it might be, you know, eight weeks. You just study it and you say, I'm going to figure out what I want so I can come back to you and show up as a fully, you know, more sexual being and not looking at our sexuality in the eyes of our partners, but sort of figuring out what we want. You also talk about methods for initiating sex in chapter three of your book, let's Get It On. And for listeners at home, an indirect request for sex would be like, why don't we have sex anymore? Whereas a direct request would be more like, hey, want to have sex? Or initiating using touch. Yeah. So much more effective.

Gay and lesbian couples are more likely to be direct than heterosexual couples.

Yeah.

Also you talk about the importance of kissing. I know kissing's so important. Have you found that kissing is the first thing that goes in long term relationships? And I think you have found in some studies how important, how important kissing is.

There's a German study that shows that German men who kiss their wives goodbye when they leave for work live five years longer than German men who do not.

That's not a good enough example for everybody to kiss your partner before you go to work. I don't know what is.

I mean, come on, how hard is that? But we're really talking about constant connection and communication.

Right?

Right.

The healthiest thing that we see in relationships. I'm gonna take a quick break, but after I'm taking your calls and answering your questions.

Okay, guys, we are on to calls and answering your questions. Hi, Janet, thanks for calling. How can I help you?

So I'm calling because, so my partner and I, we have a good sex life. And he's very kind and considerate and a considerate lover. But he asked me, he's asked many times in the past, like, what my sexual fantasies are and wants to know what I want to do and what he can do to make me happy and stuff. And it's the frustrating thing for me is that I'm already fine or happy with the things that we do. And I feel like I'm not very creative. And so I feel like I.

It's.

And again, it's not that he's. You know, there's like a whole huge amount of pressure or whatever, but I feel like I. I don't really have any other real fantasies. I grew up in a pretty strict Catholic, you know, home sex before marriage was not okay. Masturbation was really wrong and stuff. And so I feel like that that's played a part in my creativity, I guess. And so I feel like I'm not very creative. It's not that I'm not open to ideas. I just don't have ideas. Does that make sense?

I got it. Yes, absolutely. You are in the perfect situation right now because you're open and you're willing, but you just don't have any fantasies. And that's really common. I hear this from people all the time. Like, some people's brains are more creative sexually and some aren't. And that's all. Okay, now you get to go deeper into what. What you do. Like, like it. Maybe it could. Here's a few prompts for you that might help you figure it out, because it's a journey. So, first thing, I would be honest with your partner and say, I don't have a lot of fancies, but want to go on a ride with me? Let's figure out what they are. You could start to think about some of your most memorable sexual experiences. Even you could even that for yourself. And just think about, what was I the most turned on about? And, you know, or maybe with this partner, was there a night that was particularly hot? Was something happening? And so you can kind of look at your own sexual history and think about things like that that might just kind of get you to start thinking what's hot for you. Maybe it was unexpected or spontaneous, or you were dressed up or you were outside in nature. You know, maybe something happened. Start to think about some really hot moments also, you know, maybe you guys could read erotica to each other or find some hot sex scenes in movies or watch ethical porn together. Like, I don't think there should be any shame that you don't have any, but I think you might have some fun trying out what your turnout is. What do you think about that?

So that's.

Thank you.

Those are really good suggestions. I appreciate that. I feel like, I guess maybe talking ahead of time because sometimes I feel like in the moment I'm like, I don't know, like a deer on the headlights or something.

Oh, well, here's what my thing is. That I always tell couples to talk about this stuff outside the bedroom. So it doesn't happen in the moment. It's timing, turf, and tone. I always say, like, your tone has to be light and curious and open. The turf is outside the bedroom. Maybe when you're going on a walk or you're having dinner. And the timing is when you guys are feeling good, you're hanging out, you're not fighting about something or talking about something else. So in the moment. A lot of us can't answer stuff in the moment, but that's why you have to say, you know what? I want to talk to you about our sex life. Here's what I think is really hot. And you ask me about fantasies, but I have to tell you I don't have any. But here's what does turn me out. Or here, would you like to explore with me? Let's figure it out together. So just know that some people do, some people don't. Nothing wrong with you.

That's very helpful. I appreciate that. Yeah, I feel like he has some ideas that he doesn't, you know, that he. That maybe he's afraid to share with me. But I'm open to a lot.

I just.

Oh, well, this is great, Janet. I think that he probably does have fantasies. And that's the other part of this, is to say, here's my fantasies. What are your fantasies? And that's how you're gonna find out what he's into, what you're into. So this is gonna be great. It sounds like you already, you know, you're getting a sense that he's got some things he wants to talk to you about. So maybe he does. And then remember, you get to ask questions and say, tell me more about that. Oh, that's really new for me. I haven't known that. Tell me more about that fantasy. Cause it might be something that you're just sort of haven't heard of or don't really understand. Just say, tell me more about that. When did you first have that? How would it go down? What would it look like? Like. And the couples who have more of these conversations about their sex life have much better sex. More pleasurable sex, more orgasms, stronger connection. But it's awkward, Janet. People don't often do it, but that's. This is my mission on the planet, so I promise it works. Thanks, Janet. Okay, guys, this is like the basic. This is, like, what I talk to you guys about all the time, that it is okay to have these conversations. It's okay if you fantasize it's okay if you don't fantasize. It's okay if you're afraid to have this conversation. It's okay if you love talking about sex. It's okay if you've never talked about sex. It's all okay. It's just finding ways to talk about it in a way that is not shaming and blaming and healthy. And it's really in all the name of being a great lover to yourself and to your partner. It's the most important talking we can do. You can find John and Julie Gottman on Instagram ottmaninstitute and Twitter gottmaninst. For more Ian Kerner, check out his books. She comes first. And tell me about the last time you had sex. You can find Ian on Twitter Ian Kerner and Instagram Ian Kernerlmft. That's our show. I hope you enjoyed this Best of special. Stay tuned for Part two. This Friday we'll have John Weinland, Esther Burrell and Tom Bilyeu talking about eroticism and essential methods for reviving a stale sex life and transforming your relationship energy.

That's it for today's episode. See you on Friday. Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to, like subscribe and give us a review. Wherever you listen to the podcast and share this with a friend or partner, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter exwithemily oh, I've been told I give really good email, so sign up@sexwithemily.com and while you're there, check out my free guides and articles for more ways to prioritize your pleasure. If you'd like to ask me about your sex life, dating or relationships, call my hotline559Talk Sex. That's 559-825-5739 or go to sexwithemily.com askemily Special thanks to Acast for powering this, the Sex with Emily podcast. Was it good for you? Email me there's one overlooked mineral behind better sleep, sharper focus, stronger muscles and a healthier heart. And at least half of us aren't getting enough. Most people don't realize they're running low on one of the most vital minerals for human health. Magnesium. And here's the thing. No single form of magnesium can deliver all of its benefits. That's exactly why Qualia Magnesium plus was created with 10 highly bioavailable forms of magnesium plus over 70 essential minerals. It provides total magnesium support, helping you sleep better, think clearer, move stronger, and feel your best every day. And Honestly, when you're less stressed and more energized, your intimacy and desire naturally benefit too. Sure, magnesium can help you sleep, but Qualia Magnesium plus goes beyond that. It's a whole body nourishment for how you think, move, connect and feel. More than just a sleep supplement, it's a foundation for daily well being which absolutely supports a healthier sex life. Getting enough magnesium from food alone is harder than ever due to depleted soils and chronic stress and our body's reduced ability to absorb it as we age. Well. Qualia's Magnesium plus formula is non gmo, vegan, gluten free and designed so all the ingredients work together for comprehensive magnesium support. And personally, I've been taking Qualia Magnesium plus in the evenings and I really noticed calmer nights and clearer mornings and just feeling more grounded in my body, which always makes intimacy feel more accessible and enjoyable. It's become such an easy part of my nightly routine. Experience the most trusted magnesium for your purity, potency and performance. Go to qualialife.com sexwithemily for 50% off and here's a bonus use the code sexwithemily for an additional 15% off your order. That's q-u a l I a life.com sexwithemily thanks for qualia for sponsoring this episode.