Talking to Your Kids About Sex With Shafia Zaloom

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Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and on today's show I'm talking with health educator Shafiyah Zaloom. We share tips for talking to your kids about sex, plus answer your emails and calls about how to break toxic dating patterns and what to do with your partner and isn't into receiving oral, but you love giving it. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

Consent is a vibe and it starts from how you approach a relationship. It isn't just when people's genitals are interacting.

Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex.

My guest today, Shafia Zaloom and she is awesome. She's a health educator and she develops curriculum for schools around the country. She also wrote a great book, Sex Teens and Everything in between we talk about how to take shame out of the equation. I mean, can you imagine what your sex life would be like now if no one ever shamed you about being a sexual being? What a world. We also talk about how important it is for parents to get on board with talking to their kids about sex. And I know if you're like, oh, I could never do that. Well, don't worry. When you listen to this, you're gonna feel a lot better. Get really specific in this episode. Like, very specific strategies. How to talk to kids and how to get them comfortable with you asking questions and getting curious, and how to teach consent to people of all ages. You're going to love this interview. I also talked to a caller who's in a pattern of dating alcoholics. She just keeps dating alcoholics. She doesn't want to date alcoholics, but it keeps happening. Are you ever dating a kind of person that just keeps showing up and just not working for you? I can actually relate. I actually dated a few alcoholics in my day. Why do we do these things? Well, I give some advice about how to stop the patterns that don't work for you so you can find people who do work for you. We're going to get into that. And also what to do if you just love going down on your partner and she won't have anything to do with it. All right, intentions with Emily. So for each show, I'm going to start off by setting an intention for the show, and I encourage you to do the same. So what do you want to get out of this show? For example, it could be, oh, gosh, I really need to learn to talk to my kids about sex. Or I've been wanting to figure out how to talk to my teenager about consent without making it awkward. Well, my intention is to give you specific strategies and the words you can use to make it a hell of a lot easier for you and your kids to have healthy, open, and shameless conversations around sexual. All right, enjoy the show.

Shafiya Zaloom, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yes, of course. I'm excited that you're here because I have been on this sort of obsessive track lately around. I mean, for many years, I've been doing this. You've been doing this for a lot longer than I have, I think. But I've been doing about 15 years, and it was mostly, you know, educating, you know, talking to adults. But what I realize is that now I have a lot of young people in my life. I have Three nieces who are teens and friends. Kids are all of age. And in the last five, 10 years, it's like, wow, there, there's no sex education. I realize how similar the questions that people are asking me, that the young people are asking me, adolescents about sex are very similar to what adults are asking. And also a lot of people are calling in or listening to the show because now they have teenagers and they want to know, what do we do? How do we talk to them about sex? And there's a problem because if they parents never learned, how do we actually talk to our kids about sex? I know you've made this your life's work. And so, Shafiya, tell me a little about yourself. Like, what's your. What's your background? How'd you get into sex education?

Well, you know, I always had. I was blessed to have really positive relationships in my life, and that made all the difference for me and a really quality education. And so I was a social worker when I first got out of school and, and was working with kids in treatment centers as an alternative to incarceration, who had a lot. Who were wrestling with a ton of issues that all really revolved around relationships or the type of relationships they'd had as they were growing up. And after several years of that, realized I really needed to get into more preventative work versus so much interventive work so that I could sustain my own life and start a family and do all those things. And because relationships and education had always been such a strong force in my life, I chose that path and started, I GUESS it's been 25 years now, and that's sort of what took me to this place. Yeah.

Okay, got it. So tell me, you know, how do we approach talking to teens about sex when a lot of parents are feeling that they don't have the information themselves or that it's still taboo and shameful?

I mean, there are a lot of really great resources out there. I think part of it is there's just so much information and so much about sexuality that you really have to know where to find them. And I think that a sex positive approach is that we all strive for. Like, we all want to raise our kids to be good people, to have positive, enriching relationships, you know, romantic as well as sexual ones. And so I think it really is twofold. First, the information's out there. Find the medically accurate information from credible resources and share that with your kid in developmentally appropriate ways. And you're educating yourself along the way. It is. Okay. No one taught us this either. And so we are pioneers. And if you can talk to your friends and say, I don't really know how to do this. How are you doing this? And source each other to create a sense of solidarity. Because typically, as parents, we tend to like to do this together, especially if our kids are younger. We do that really well. As they get older, teenagers tend to want their independence, and we tend to not have as many opportunities to connect with each other. But we should. So find those places where you can connect with each other, test the waters and see how open and comfortable those folks are to say, how do we do this? How can we communicate consistent messages that align with our own personal family values, but also give kids the information they need to keep themselves and their friends safe? And then with your kids in those conversations, you're really. It's the value of these small victories. You're collecting moments. You're scaffolding this over time. It's not one big giant talk. It's little ones over longer periods of time. And it's okay. In fact, it's a tremendous gift to be able to say to your kid, to role model healthy vulnerability in an effort to connect in an authentic way, to say, I don't know, but this is really important. And sometimes the most important conversations are the hardest ones to have. And so let's find out this information together and figure this out in a way that works with all the things we've been teaching you all along. Now, for some parents, kids suddenly start screaming, I'm running from the. Whatever it is, I don't want to hear you talk about sex.

They might happen to have a quality health program at school. And they'll say, but I'm. I need. I know everything I need to know. Don't worry about it. You know, I'm learning. I'll learn it in school. The thing is, is that parents are absolutely the primary sexuality educator in a child's life. They can't be. They're not the only one, but they're certainly the primary one. And you're the consistent person that they are going to be connected to throughout their life. And so those people who teach them education, relationship education, sex education, all those things, they're going to come and go. They'll have an impact. It's a huge blessing to have that resource. But really, you're the consistent one. And there are ethical aspects to sex education, but like those family values that are essential to it, only you can teach those to your kid. So parenting adults are really important in that role.

Well, I have a question for you Shafiya. Where do we start? So let's say I have some, I have kids, let's have a daughter and she's 12 years old, we've never talked about sex. I see she's going through puberty, she's, you know, developing breasts. I know that kids are starting to talk about it and I, and I don't know what to do. Like what would, where would you even start? Like what would, could you run me, walk me through that conversation?

So first you have to think about a few things and prepare yourself, right? So you have to know that kids need an environment free of judgment, shame and ultimatums to share with open honesty. So you're going to build credibility with how you approach this from the beginning. And if you haven't done so great so far, that's okay, you can always do a do over and you can even say that and narrate that to your kid.

But it's really important to make sure that you work out what you need to first so that you can approach the conversation in a way that you maintain composure, you role model maturity, and you're able to suspend your judgment. And some ways to do that is to start with I notice. I notice is pretty judgment free. You could say, I notice your body is starting to change. I found us a book that's all about that. It's really normal, it's super healthy and I want you to feel good about it. So here's some information about that then as you start to engage in conversation. When you ask a question, stay away from why. Once you ask why, you've already made a judgment and kids are really sensitive to that. So instead lead with how are you feeling about that? How do you think that person felt?

Do you think they were on the same page or what? What would it take for that to have felt better for, you know, this character or that person? If you're watching a TV show, for instance, media is a great way. So there's like the information about bodies and stuff that can come in a book or a website or whatever it is, and there are plenty that are out there that are age appropriate and really sex positive and talk about, you know, values and readiness and all those sort of things. But then how you apply that information to the complexities of human relationships and interpersonal dynamics is a really important part that kids need practice with. Across the developmental stages. They're learning how to think about this just like they are in all the other courses that they're taking in School. Right. We build upon different levels, and that's the same thing. Media is a fantastic way to talk about this with your children. It's a little less personal and intimate. It allows for you to discuss other characters and scenes and things like that. All you need to have is one or two questions in your back pocket. I notice. And do you think they both got to walk away with their dignity?

So using, like a story in the media, like if there's a story that comes out about bullying or even if they're watching a TV show. Right. Is that what you're saying? And they could just say both.

Yes. So I came across this story in the media. This is what happened. How would you deconstruct it a little bit, Break it down? What do you think about that? How do you think that person felt about how they were treated? What would it have taken for someone to step in and make a difference in a positive way? Same thing with a show. Find out what your kids are binge watching and what they're exposed to on a regular basis. The American Academy of Pediatrics has adolescents exposed to 14,000 sexual references a year. You know, a lot of that comes at them in the form of music, media, all kinds of things. But find out what they're watching, what are they binge watching? Watch it either with them. This depends on your relationship with your child, with them, or separately. But then you can come together and talk about the characters, the relationships they have and discuss and drop your values in that way. You know what takes place in those shows.

So you'd say, like, I noticed that you were watching Big Mouth on Netflix. I noticed that you had a quote in your book from Nick Kroll, an endorsement to your book. And then you might say, I noticed you were watching. You know, which is an amazing. I think it's a great series. I really do think it's a wonderful. It's animated series about sex education, about young kids. I mean, and saying, like, I noticed you were watching that, and how did it make you feel when you saw the scene about the woman, you know, the young girl growing breasts? Right. Is that kind of what you would. That's an example for people to, like, just use real media, real things happening and listen. Right. Know why?

So why?

Don't ask why?

Yeah. No. Why not? You know, you notice, you listen and, you know, Big Mouth can be somewhat cringey. Adults tend to really take to it, or it's just really hard to watch, especially when I'm talking to crowds of parents. And so again, watch it on Your own or watch it with your kid, depending on your relationship with them. But I would say something like, what'd you think about that scene when Jesse was talking to her vulva? So get to know the characters. You know, talk very specifically about what's happening. How do you think Nick felt when Andrew was making fun of him in the drugstore and talking about his nipples?

You know, you're going to have to get a little, you know, don't go too far, because then your kid will go running from you. But you have to be specific enough to show that you have interest, that you've really paid attention, and that you're willing to engage in a substantive dialogue with your kid about this. And keep it brief. Really keep it brief.

It should. It should be ongoing. Like, if the thing is, it's like everything in life, the more practice we have having these conversations, it'll become second nature. Like, you. You won't be able to not. You will be able to not have the conversation, right? Like, if it becomes part of your family dialogue and you watch a movie and you go home and you just. It just comes up. And I think that the hard part. And you. You mentioned this, that parents have to first, though, understand their relationships to sex before they can talk to kids or know where they're coming from. But I think that, like, again, so many parents haven't even done their own work yet. They've never heard anybody talk about sex. It still seems so taboo and shameful and wrong that they can't quite get past that early upbringing, you know, where they were shamed for it. So how do parents start to do that?

It's, you know, it's an ongoing life process, even for those of us who have been working on it for a little while. We're all on the same journey, just at different places. And. And so I think, you know, treating ourselves in the same way that we hope our kids will treat other people they're in relationship with, and to lead with empathy and to be, you know, compassionate and generous with ourselves when it comes to this is really important. But direct and open honesty is important, too. And to be able to say to your kid, you know, my sex education was full of shame, and I'm still working through some of these things. And I know that you really need this information, so I'm going to get it for you, and here's some really good reading and. And we're going to figure this out together. But I just want you to know that I'm figuring this out for myself, too. And I don't want to be, you know, tmi, and I won't give you too much information around that, but I just want to be honest with you about where I am on this one. The other thing is resourcing other adults. You know, if there are other adults in your circle, you know, the village concept. I mean, really, truly, it does in the village. Yeah. So other adults, like you're an aunt, I imagine you're an incredible resource to your nieces. You know, where you can have that degree of separation or someone who's a little younger who may seem have a little more credibility at this point in an adolescent's life. Talk to them and ask them, please, you know, talk to my kid. Has to be someone you trust. And don't go asking them to. To reveal what those conversations yield, because you have to be really careful of that. You have to pick someone you trust, go to them, say you can, tell them. This will remain in confidence. I really trust you. This is the information I'm hoping they'll get. Can you please have these conversations or could you do that? It's a big responsibility, so make sure they're comfortable with it first. But resourcing other adults is really essential.

It is okay, I guess, if you're not okay. If you're not comfortable with it, it has to happen. I've heard this. You know, it's either you or you porn. You know, who's going to do it, right? Who's going to educate the kids? So, you know, I feel like that's sort of been my role definitely during COVID for, you know, everyone's homeward. A lot of my friends reach out and said, can you talk to my son? Can you talk to my daughter? And then I did a zoom call with my niece, who's 18, and 10 of her friends and I just 10 of her girlfriends. And we got all got on a call and I was like, this is a safe space. I always tell them, like, I will never reveal any of this to your parents or anyone. But it was just, you know, you realize at first, like, they'd all been friends for years, but they had even talked about it before. Just. I feel like how a lot of teens talk about sex is, they'll say something like, you know, either they had sex or they didn't have sex. I gave them a blowjob. I didn't give. But it's not about how they felt. Did it feel good? Was there any pain? Was it awkward? It's just very perfunctory because they don't know where else. That's all they know about it. It's like, let's just talk about the action and not actually about consent and did you want it to happen and did it feel good?

So good times. Talk about sex. Shafiya, you want to hang out? We're going to take a break. I'm talking to Shafiya Zaloom. Her book is Sex Teens and Everything in Between. Don't go anywhere. We've got so much more to talk about after this break.

Shafiya, this is so helpful and this is a great, your book is a great resource for parents, anyone to read truly Sex Teens and everything in between. The necessary conversations teens need to have about consent, sexual harassment, healthy relationships, love and more.

Thank you. Yeah, I mean I, that's what I wrote it for. I would finish a parent education workshop or talk and parents would come up to me afterwards and ask me questions, really specific ones, and they'd say, okay, wait a minute, can you say that again? And hold their phone up, recording my voice, like, wait, I just need to capture the language. And so that was why I wrote the book, was so that I could include all those questions that prompt conversation, sort of role modeled for them, how you would answer questions and then provide resources for further educating yourself.

It's funny that you say that because I often, I could tell you right now the top questions, you know, I get asked on the show and everyone feels that, you know, it's typically about like, how do I have an orgasm or how do I get my partner to blank or I want sex more than my partner. And you must have your top questions too. What is that question for you when you're speaking to a group of parents?

When it's to a group of parents, you know, it's sometimes it changes with the time. So like we've talked about, you know, how do I start this conversation? Where do I even begin? And then a lot of it is just the language because we haven't had a lot of practice with this and we tend, we haven't had a lot of conversations that are substantive and meaningful with kids or with other people. Practice doing that growing up because we didn't get it ourselves. And so I do believe talking with a partner, talking with a close friend who is also a parent or someone else who can be a sounding board to try and figure out how you exactly want to express what you want to say. What are the questions that would be really helpful? Some people talk to think. Some people think to talk, depending on your social style, really Figure that out. So that when you arrive to have a conversation with your kid, not that you want to be scripted or overly prepared, but that you've actually given some thought to it in a way that you would. Any meaningful conversation you would enter into, you know, you get. You've invested in. And I think they appreciate that for sure.

To practice it. We often do it on the show, too. We'll kind of role play with people and help them, you know, help. It's really hard if you don't have the words, you know. And I think we have to also remember not to be so hard on ourselves, because I think we assume that we should know or that we're doing something wrong or, you know, but, you know, we're not taught communication at all. Like the. Literally, I wish we were taught this stuff is. Feel like all this stuff is so useful for adults. So how would you start teaching kids about communication?

When it comes to sexual relationship and sexual communication, I have an analogy. So kids are really concrete thinkers, the majority of them. If we're talking about adolescence, even older adolescents and adults, this analogy can help. So I would ask you, a room full of kids, a room for adults. This week, I just, you know, did the whole middle school, high school, and parents, I was talking about this. So think of a bear, an animal, the bear, right? So think of one. Conjure up one in your mind. And I would ask everyone in the room to think of a bear. And typically, bears would have some similarities, right? Four legs, two little ears, probably furry in some way. And we could have a conversation about a bear. But it would probably be pretty basic and superficial. I ask everyone, so describe your bear. You know, we're all zooming these days. So in the chat, you know, put your bear in, describe it to me. What's it doing? What does it look like? What color is it? And I will see roll out all these different types of bears. Yogi the bear, smoking the bear, Polar bear on ice, Brown bear fishing in a river, black bear climbing up a tree. Gummy bears, you know, Berenstein bears. All these different California bear on the flag. So you know, all these different bears. And then you ask everyone, so what do you notice? And everybody looks. They're like, well, they're all different. So, yeah. So, you know, when it comes to relationship and sexual communication, it's think of a bear. Like, we can't make assumptions about people's bears because we all know what it is. But when you really start talking about it, you realize that your bear could be very different from Someone else's. You know, sometimes I'll hear panda bears. Some scientists think pandas are actually raccoons. They're not even bears.

So then where do you take it from there? So they say, I notice that we're all different. And then how do we. Where do we go from there? They notice that everyone's idea of a bear. So is it kind of like everyone's idea of sex is different too, or everyone's idea of.

The next question I would ask is, so what contributed? What contributes to the bear that comes up in your mind? And the same bear you would tell me about today might be different a month from now based on your experiences. Right? So, you know, people will say our experiences, our knowledge, those different things. And that's very true of sexual and relationship communication, too, Right? That, you know, what we bring to a conversation will determine how we experience our connection with someone else. So we can describe in really concrete ways these concepts for kids that they can draw on personally and understand and then build a concrete bridge into the context of sexuality. So, okay, so when you're talking to a friend, we can't make assumptions. If you're having a conversation about where you want to go, what you want to do, or let's say you're exploring sexual. You know each other sexually, you have to be pretty specific to say, like, is this okay with you? Is it not? Because you may have different pairs. Consent is a vibe, and it starts from how you approach a relationship. It isn't just when people's genitals are interacting or their bodies are interacting. And so when you approach where you're going to go and how you're going to spend time with each other, ask about each other's bears. And just like you would say, what color is it? What's it doing? Where's it sleeping? How's it acting? You can translate those questions into the relationship questions. Like, well, where are you comfortable going? Have you been there before? When we go, what kind of food would you like to eat? You know, those sorts of things where you're really sharing responsibility and how you connect and spend time together.

I love Consent is a vibe. Yeah, I think that's great. It is a vibe, but it could be like a cool vibe. That's what people. I think consent gets such a bad rap. But the truth is, consent can be so sexy because the absence of consent is where a lot of our anxiety comes from, because we're not sure if somebody's into us or wants the same thing we do. And then we. We don't know how to find that out. You know, it's because we don't know about consent. But once you clear that and you learn to get specific in your desires and what you want in the moment, then it can be just a more pleasurable experience to connect with someone sexually. Because then you realize, like, oh, we've already cleared that. Like, I know what's on the table, what's off the table. You're not in your head worrying, like, is this okay? Do they like me? Are they going to shut me down for sure?

And consent for kids, you know, it's really important we be concrete and explicit. Consent is a pretty low bar when it comes to a really positive, pleasurable sexual experience. It is essential. It protects the fundamentals of human dignity. And it's the floor, not the ceiling. And so it's really important that our kids get that message, that it's just not just about avoiding a felony. It's about, like, you know, it's really about connecting with others and exploring sexuality in a positive way. Because it's supposed to feel good. That's the whole point. It should be good. And so I talk to kids pretty explicitly about what consent is, the legal responsibilities, certainly, but then also what ethical and good sex are. Because we have to be talking to kids not just about what is the bare minimum, but what they're going to aspire to. We do that in all other aspects of their lives, except for this one. And there's decades of research that tell us it's actually the most important one. Because consent is the foundation of relationships. Right. Like, it really has to do with autonomy and agency in your relationships, which is so important.

Yes.

And so when you go on to the ethical and the good piece in talking about it with kids, it gives them a sense of, okay, so it's not, you're believing in me, that I can do positive and good things. And the research tells us it's not their grades, it's not where they go to school. This is for all people. It's not our performance or our achievement. It's actually the quality of our relationships that will determine the quality of our lives. And we establish those patterns of behavior when we're younger.

Yeah, I love that the quality of our relationships determine the quality of our lives. It's so true. You know, they always say, like, you're the five people you spend the most time with. You know, you are the sum total of the people that you, you know. And you look around you, it's like, do I want to be the Total of these, these people in life. I think relationships really are everything. And it's funny because we're often told how important it is to have healthy nurturing. And we're not even just talking about sexual relationships, but all relationships. But yet we are so ill equipped to be healthy communicators. Shafiyya, we got a question from Instagram and it's from Lyn. Are there good resources for starting sex ed in kindergarten now? The only place where I've heard that happening, I mean, I know there's probably private schools in the US but it's in the Netherlands where they, they have, you know, renowned programs where it starts very, very young. So what, what do you have to say about that? Good resources for kindergarten.

I mean, good resources. There's a great book, it's called Sex is a Funny Word and what Makes a Baby. Those are fabulous. They're a great place to start. And really, as parents, we should do that too. In how we're teaching kids correct body parts, for instance. Also, how we treat each other matters. Narrating emotional responses to how we treat people in faces. So kids can be empathetic. There's all kinds of ways in which we can start when they're really young to nurture and cultivate capacity.

That's interesting for healthy sexuality. I love sex as a funny word. It's funny because my youngest niece, who's 12, she's like, I know because my whole. It's changed now, but my family used to be like, oh, Aunt Emily does this, you know, crazy, this thing in California. Like it's dirty and they're better now. But my 12 year old niece said to me, she goes, it's just what you. Sex is funny. It's funny. What is it? I think she might have been 11. Now she's 12. But I'm like, yeah, it is true. It's a great title. So sex is a funny word. How do you teach that? Empathy, for example, like, are you saying like right now, can you see my face is. You know, I know in my home growing up, and this is something I've had to learn through therapy and a bunch of other modalities is that there was a lot of anger in my house, so I never really saw. And I know this is because my mom grew up in a home that was angry, so she never really displayed anger. And so it's sort of confusing sometimes to know, you know, it's all about healthy expression of all the emotions. Fear, sadness, anger, joy. But how do we model that? I guess you don't know what you don't know if you grew up in a home where. I didn't know this until I was older, but I kind of feel like that's what you're talking about, is teaching that right?

Yeah. The most powerful. I mean, we can do do overs, right? Like, so we're all human and sometimes we don't express our feelings in the healthiest ways. And to come back to our kids and to say, can we have a do over? Because this is what was going on with me and genuinely apologize, to say, I really didn't do a good job with that and this is what I was hoping to say and to do. And I'd appreciate you listening. When we talk to kids and we mediate conflict amongst kids, let's say we have more than one, you know, and to say, what was your intention versus your impact in kid language? You know, so what did you mean to do? What do you think happened? What do you see on Jared's face? What do you see in Kai's expression on their face? What do you think that means they're feeling? And then asking that person, is that how you're feeling? And then asking the other kid, is that what you meant to do? Those sorts of things. And how we cultivate empathy and morality across the developmental stages, you know, is first narrating those first kind of expressions, cluing kids into. We have an impact on others. And we can actually see things in people's faces and bodies that are an indication of how they are responding to how we treat them. But then also appreciation. It really starts with appreciation. So the capacity to recognize in other people how they contribute to our lives in positive ways. And then as kids get older, that moves into gratitude. And that gratitude then becomes empathy. That we are able, through our gratitude, to recognize that we are all in this together and that other people contribute to our lives to make us who we are. And so how we treat each other matters. And it's really important for us to recognize that in others. Renee Brown calls that the wholehearted living too, and being empathetic and all the different ways in which the four components of it.

I love that. So teaching kids about appreciation moves into gratitude, moves into empathy, which is so true. That is the experience when you really do that kind of work. Beautifully said. So with the resources for starting in kindergarten, I mean, I wish we did more of that here, but people are like, people think it's crazy when I say we should start teaching, you know, at a young age and it should be in elementary schools and it should be everywhere. I think that people have this assumption that if we start teaching kids about sex, they're going to start having sex. Which it couldn't be further from the truth. I know there's so many studies that fewer teen pregnancies and less bullying in schools and much, you know, adolescents who have sex are reporting that it's much more healthy and consensual and pleasurable. And so I think we know that. But what is your vision for a successful sex education system in this country?

I think ultimately we really want to create a comprehensive program and department with trained teachers, just like we have for every other aspect of a kid's education. Because we did move to, and it is recognized widely and nationally that we want to teach to the whole child. Right. But in terms of our definition of what a whole child actually is, does it include sexuality? I would say absolutely, yes. Who we are as whole people includes all those aspects of healthy sexuality that are so essential and important to a quality life and strong well being. So, you know, I would say from the beginning that it needs to be comprehensive from kindergarten all the way through college, realistically, kindergarten through 12th grade. And that you're really balancing. I mean, I have a whole way by which I break this down. You know, age appropriately, just like any other subject. Math in particular, you're going through so many important skills and learning so many important things like numbers and values and quantities. Right. And then how to put them together, how to think about it and then how to apply it to real life. It's the same thing. So to have, you know, an established program that is funded and supported and bought into in the same way all the other subjects are to have a trained teacher who is empowered to do the work they're being asked to do in a way that addresses all the essential elements of healthy sexuality and relationships from the time kids are young at that kindergarten stage all the way through till their senior year in high school.

And how close are we to that right now?

Depends on where you are. When you look at it from a statistics perspective or you look at it in a way that, you know, how many states actually require sex education? How many require it be medically accurate? How many require consent actually be a part of it, you know, it's pretty abysmal completely. I mean, only half of the United States require. It is for graduation.

Half of the United States, 16 states or something. Required. Require sex ed to be medically accurate or something like that. Ridiculous.

Yeah. And only eight that can't be talked about. And there's Right now, the majority of funding, you know, if there is any for it, has been reinstituted for abstinence only education, which has been proven through congressional research to actually be to the detriment of young people's well being, not to better it. And that's not to say absence isn't important. It absolutely is. It's fundamental even to a concept like consent. But absence only education is politically charged and that has taken priority recently. It really depends on the state. And, you know, we have to recognize and understand there are some amazing sex educators out there creating incredible programs for young people that are just phenomenal, that are doing that very thing, that are positive, that are nurturing, that are focused on skills, not just content and, you know, the value of healthy sexuality and relationship education for young people and trusting them with that information and their intuitions and everything else that they will do right with that quality information to make better choices for themselves. And that happens.

Yeah, it does happen. But I feel like, you know, we live in California, you're in San Francisco. I'm sure it's, it's much more open there, but I would love to see it everywhere so people can get your book. It's a great start. Sex, teens, and everything in between. My guest is Shafiya Zaloom. Shafiya, thank you so much for being here with us today. They can buy your book everywhere, Amazon, your website, shafiazaloom.com, we'll put it on our show notes@sexwithemily.com I really, really appreciate your time here, and it was very inspiring and you're doing great work and I'd love to stay connected.

I would love that, too. Thanks so much for your interest and for having me.

Of course. Of course. Thank you so much. Sex with Emily will continue after this quick word from our sponsors.

Let's talk to Steve, 40 in New York.

Hi, how are you? Yeah, I'm in a new relationship. It's been about two months, and this girl's amazing. Like, she's probably the one, hopefully, finally. But my question is she's like, really into, like, penetration and toys and not so much with the oral sex. And she told me in general that she doesn't get off from receiving oral sex, which I find I've never come across that before. So I just wanted to know if that was. Was common or not because usually I've experienced the other way around where women, you know. Oral sex.

Exactly, Exactly. Steve, great question. It is, it's. I don't, I don't, like, use the Word common. But what I found in my practice is that here, that. That there are women who don't like oral, heavy oral sex performed on them because their clitoris tends to be a little bit more sensitive. And what I've also noticed is that for these women who are very sensitive, have sensitive clitoris, they actually have more orgasms during penetration. So does she have orgasms during penetration?

Oh, yeah. Like, she likes to be, like, penetrated, like with fingers. That's like what she likes a lot.

Or toys. Yeah, no, that happens for some women. They just don't. And those are the way. Now, there are some women who say they don't like it because they have shame around their bodies or they're afraid they don't have to receive pleasure. But it sounds like she might be one of those people that it actually doesn't feel good.

Right. I mean, she told me she likes the way I do it. She just doesn't have an orgasm from it, so.

Well, then you could still do it and just arouse her, but she's not going to get there from it. That's just how it is. That's. But it's not that. I mean, it's. There are women like that. So that's.

I guess you have to come to terms with it because that's like one of the most favorite things I like to do. So it kind of hurt my ego a little bit. I'm like, I can't get this girl off from oral. I'm like, wow, that's so funny.

I mean, you could also, you know, you could do. Yeah, you could go down on her and use toys at the same time.

Right?

Yeah, she likes that.

I'm sorry, Steve. I know it's funny. It's like we get the opposite. Right. Like, usually there's women who are dying for a partner go down on them and they don't want to. And it's like you want to do it in this woman.

But yeah, she likes using football toys on me, so she wants to use dildos on me all the time. And I never let a woman do that, but I let her and I kind of like it. So, like, she's definitely.

Maybe the. This is more about you exploring your sexuality right now. Maybe this is a.

Definitely been an experience.

Yeah. Why not ride this wave, see where it goes. Appreciate it, Steve. Appreciate you. Let's talk to Lisa51 in California. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling.

Hi.

Hi.

So I have been back and forth for the last several years between these two guys who are both my exes, and so one is like super into me, the other ones just like ghost me all the time. But the one thing they have in common is they're both just complete alcoholics. And I look back on my dating. I'm 51, so pretty much the majority of the relationships that I've had have been with alcoholics. So over and over and over, that's the pattern.

Yeah. So what do you think that's about, Lisa? Did you, did you have a parent that was an alcoholic?

Yeah, I have a lot of alcoholism in my family. Within. It's just weird how you hate growing up with that. Like, I, I can't stand alcoholics, but yet, like, that's what I'm drawn to. And I think I just feel like I know how to work that I know how to deal with that. I don't know.

Weird, right? And is it something that you're ready to, to kind of change right now? I'm assuming you don't want to keep being with alcoholics. Yeah, I had that pattern too. To be honest, Lisa, I used to date alcoholics. Some were sober and some were working through it or it was. They were like, you know, functioning. And so what I realized is that what it is for a lot of people, Lisa, is that it's not only that that they're attracted to you, it's that you're like, you actually just said it. Your behavior is such that you know how to handle it, right? You're like, I know this behavior. So you've adapted. Like you've adapted in response to growing up in a home with alcoholics. And I don't know what that behavior is for you. Is it people pleasing? Is it caretaking? Is it non attachment caretaking? Totally caretaking. So you're like, I am going to, yeah, I'm going to be cherished. I know how to take care of this person when they have a hangover or they mess something up. But that's where you're getting your worth from, is being a caretaker. You're like, I can solve any situation. I can, you know, do all these things. So that's your work is realizing where, where you can get to the place where you realize that there's other things that you have to provide in a relationship. And it's not that it's not caretaking. Like there's a part of you that could still learn to love parts of yourself maybe that you don't, you know. It's a pattern, though. It's like literally like realizing that the next alcoholic that walks you in, door you're like, nope. But have you had any therapy around this, Lisa? Have you ever talked about it with someone?

Yeah, I've been in therapy off and on for about 30 years, you know, very sporadically here and there. And I'm currently in it. And over the last five, four or five months, I've just done a lot of tremendous work. Like you're talking about. We don't really have any other choice. We're just focused on our lives and what's going on. So it's been very helpful and I'm, I feel like I'm working through a lot of it.

Oh, I'm so glad, Lisa. I'm so glad to hear that. It's true. Yeah, I've done some great work over this on the zoom with my therapist. Like, oh God, there's still more. There's so many more layers to peel back and it just makes life richer. Because if you think about it, it's like if you don't just keep doing that. And I probably dated several for years and then even the ones that you think aren't alcoholics or alcoholics. Right. Do you ever do that? You're like, what?

Oh, yeah.

So it just. Because it's literally like that's what we see. You know, it's like they say when you're going to buy a blue car, every car is blue. Right. It's like that's just what you see. And so now you, the fact that you're calling it have a name for it. You're like, this is what I do. You have to start cultivating other things that are attractive to you. So what helps is also writing a list of your non negotiable and like reading that list really getting granular and specific. And then when someone comes up that doesn't, you know, it just won't work for you. But I'm glad to, I'm glad to hear you're working on it, Lisa.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much. And you have a great night.

You too, Lisa. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling. Okay, this is from Maddie, 25, in Nashville. I'm a brand new listener and I have a couple questions for you. First, I've never really masturbated, but I'm interested and wondering how to even start. I want to purchase a vibrator or some other pleasure device, but I'm completely overwhelmed by the vast amount of options. Is there one main tip you would give to women beginning to explore their personal pleasure? I love this question. I typically recommend that women start with a clitoral Vibrator, meaning it's an external vibe that you can sort of tease yourself with and learn your body and kind of feel, figure out what feels good. And a lot of women's first pleasure experiences start with the vulva, the clitoris. And so I wouldn't recommend like an insertion vibrator for your first one. You know, I love the Zoomio because the Zumio is built for exploration. It's all about exploration. And the funny thing about the Zumio is a lot of women, their first time vibrators were actually a toothbrush of electric toothbrush, which I'm not recommending. But in that spirit, the Zumio has this little tip on it. It looks like. It looks like a toothbrush, but it's not. A toothbrush has a little pleasure point on it that rotates and it's really cool because it allows you like my recommendation is to take a mirror and sort of get a look at what's going on and get to know your body. It's amazing thing happens when you take a mirror and you look at your genitals when you're getting turned on as a woman. Your vulva, you can see that it starts to swell, that your clitoris starts to open like a flower, right? Your vulva, your labia, it all opens up, the blood starts to rush and everything becomes more swelled and engorged, which is really cool. So the Zoomio allows you to sort of pinpoint your pleasure. Also, We Vibe has a great one called the Touch. It's a great product that you can hold in your hand. It's like the shape of like a, like a little deck of cards maybe. It's smaller than that, it's oval. And you can use it with yourself, you can use it with a partner. It feels really good. Like it's a really body safe silicone and it's got a point on one end, so you can flip it around and use it different ways. Like if you want to get some pleasure sensations, you want to apply more pressure to certain areas. And that is the We Vibe touch. I recommend anything by We Vibe. Really, they're fantastic. So try that out because I think it's a great place to start just exploring and seeing like what? Get some lube. Obviously you know how I feel. You know, get some pure pjur. Get some good lube. Don't cheap out on the lube, especially for masturbation. And when you're exploring and you've. I wish, I wish I knew about lube. You know, when I started masturbating. I wish I knew how much better everything feels and how good it feels to actually like to touch yourself and how it actually turned you on more than just being dry. Because the clitoris is not going to lubricate itself. It doesn't happen.

So get some lube, buy yourself a toy. Like I say, the Zumio something by WE Vibe. There's also new sensual makes a bullet as well. So beginner toys, bullets, handheld vibes, things for the clitoris. Well, that's it for today's episode. I'll see you on Friday. And thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. Be sure to like subscribe and give us a review and tell all your friends, your partners, your lovers about the show. If it's helped you, I promise it'll help them too. We release shows on Tuesdays and Fridays and look out for a bonus episode every now and then. You can also find me on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. It's all Sex with Emily. Oh, and I give really good newsletter. Sign up at sex with emily.com if you'd like to ask me about your sex life, your dating life, relationships, message me on Instagram or call into my SiriusXM show Monday through Friday, 5 to 7pm Pacific, 8 to 10 Eastern and you can just call me there. Save this number 88894 stars or 888-947-8277 and get a free 30 day trial at sexwithemily.com sxm Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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