The Good Dad with Larry Hagner

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day. Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend, cuz? My man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards. Oh my.

Do women know about shrinkage? Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks. Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh, My God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

I'm excited to welcome my guest to the show, Larry Hagner. He's the founder of the Good Dad Project and host of the dad Edge podcast. I was honored to be a guest on your podcast. We had a good talk that day. That was fun.

We had an awesome talk.

I know, I loved it. I felt like really. I felt like we really, we really connected. And I love the work that you're doing. And you gotta check out his whole movement. You have, like, resources and tools and projects and ways that men and fathers can work to be the best versions of themselves so they can selflessly serve their families. Enjoy fatherhood. You're helping guys. Like, what the hell is this fatherhood thing all about? It's really a challenging time. I mean, it always is. But I think the work that you're doing now is so important because I feel like. And you can speak to this perhaps why we're so much more open now. I think you hear so much more about men, you know, kind of finding peer groups, finding communities to kind of talk about their emotions. It's more accepted for men to go to therapy and be vulnerable and express their emotions. I mean, very, like at the tipping point, like, you're in the right place right now and doing what you're doing. So I feel like it's really hard to be good at anything. And I have a lot of friends who are like, good moms and they're like, oh, I was a bad mom today. So talk about, like the Good Dad Project and how this came about.

The Good dad project really came from my own horrible struggles with fatherhood. I am not kidding. So like five years ago, I mean, so my kids, My oldest is 11. I have four boys. I have an 11 year old, 10 year old, 4 year old, 1 year old. And when my. So about six years ago now, actually, I just had this epiphany that I was doing it wrong and my ego was in the way. So I was like, I can't ask for help. I can't go out and look for help. I can't ask for help because that's a sign of weakness. But I had a really hard time with fatherhood. I was your typical guy. I was overworked, I was stressed out, I was irritable, I had zero patience. And I, to be honest, I kind of hated myself for it. I mean, I just, I wanted so badly to be a good father because My childhood, I came from like this really chaotic, crazy childhood where my mom was married three times. I didn't even meet my biological father till I was 30.

Wow.

So 12 years ago. So I just, I had this in my mind. I was like, you know, half my childhood was spent without a father, and then the other half was spent with a really toxic father figure, depending on who that was. So when I became a dad, I was like, man, I am going to do this right. And then for the first five years, I just did it all wrong.

How did you know you were doing it wrong?

I could just tell. I mean, you can just tell when you're doing things wrong. I was short with my kids. I got very. Just like every other guy, I got very little validation at home. So, like, what do most guys do? We get our validation in the workspace. So like, I would work and then I'd get into my hobbies. I'm into fitness and I was into martial arts and I would. That's where I went and got my validation. So I didn't get that validation at home. So what did I do? What every guy does is I'll just do this father thing from a distance. I want to be good at it, but I don't know how.

Yeah, how would you know? We're not trained. There's no tools. And so it's interesting. Like anyone can become a dad or a. One of the things I think that we're all put on this planet to work through is our past and is our childhood. It's almost like whether you had a messed up childhood. I attended four of my parents weddings for I was 25. Right. Things like that. I understand the toxic step parents or I know men whose parents and women whose parents were married forever. And there's still challenge around this. And our parents are gonna mess us up no matter even today. It happens all the time. Like, I have friends used to joke that, you know, they're saving up for their kids therapy, fun. Because they know even though they were so evolved as parents, they knew there's gonna be something. You know, you might not even be aware of what those issues are in your child, but there's going to be something your parents did that's going to impact the way you are as a parent today, number one. And number two, we're not even told how to do it. And they probably made some mistakes you'd like to improve upon. And if you don't look at this stuff, you're just going to keep repeating the same patterns over and over.

Again, yeah, exactly. Well, I just had Gary John Bishop on my show who wrote that book Unfuck Yourself.

Yeah, that was good. I listened to that podcast of yours. It's really good.

He's awesome. And he said something in that, in that book like, we can do the best job we can as parents, we can do the best job we can as fathers. But it really, it's, it's the perception of our kids and their experience of us. And so it's no matter how much we really try to do right, we are going to probably screw them up somehow some way.

Right.

And it's just a matter of like, just being very, very human. Like, so for instance, conversation I had with my 10 year old was like exactly what he had with his 10 year old, which was like, hey, you know, you know how you're trying to figure out how to be 10 years old? And he's like, yeah, he's like, well, I'm 42, I'm still trying figure out how to be 42. I'm still trying to figure out how to be a dad. I mean, so it's, we're constantly so real though.

I mean, I love that you have that conversation with your 10 year old. Like, it's, here's life. Because life is about struggle. We're not taught that necessarily. So back to your realization. I want to go back to that.

Yeah. So at the time, my 10 year old was 4 and we were moving. I was talking with your producer about how horrible moving is. We were getting ready to move.

Moving, taxes, death, like three of the worst things, right?

Awful. So I was packing up their playroom and it took me like four hours. Pack up their playroom. I have boxes from ceiling to floor. And I was that again, typical guy where I was, you know, pissed off half the time. I had very little patience. Like, I wasn't fun to be around, you know. So I told my four year old, I was like, look, I just got done packing up all this stuff and I was gonna take a break. I was like, do not unpack this stuff. Just don't touch it. So I was gone for 30 minutes and he had managed to, to like unpack all this stuff and it was stuff everywhere. And I got so pissed off and I grabbed him and I spanked him. And my wife is like super low key, right? Like it takes very, it takes a whole lot to ruffle her feathers. And she just was like, seriously, she's like, he's four. He just went to get to his toys. Like, you don't have to get so pissed. And when she says something. Because she never nags me when she says something, I usually. I listen, right? And I'm like, oh, crap. So I went in my office. I was actually kind of emotional. I was like, this is not what I want to do. Like, this is not the person I want to be. I was so pissed off. And I. I not only been pissed off at the. At that moment, I was pissed off about the whole five years, you know, being that way. So I was on Facebook. I was trying to distract myself. I don't know what it was. I mean, I kind of call it my Jerry Maguire moment. Where I saw this. This thing in the left hand side where it says, create a page. And I don't know what or why it happened.

I get chills.

Yeah, I'm actually getting chills talking about it.

Creating the page.

I just. The words good dad project came out, and I don't think a lot of people know this, but the Good dad project was actually me. I was the project. So I was like, I need some help. Like, I need some fucking help, you know? So I told myself I was, I'm gonna create this page, and I'll see if anybody follows it. And I'm just gonna go out every single day and just find something inspirational. But the biggest thing was, is I had to surrender that ego that I didn't know it all and that I had. I just became.

You just became vulnerable to a whole community of people.

I just wanted to be a student of it, really. I mean, so that's. That's what I did.

Right. And so you started it. You said, hey, guys, you invited your friends. Guy friends are like, what can we do? And then you all started a community together.

Yes.

Getting advice and help.

That was just the page at the time. Then I started a blog in 2013, and then a podcast in 2015, and then I wrote a book in 2015. But it was really just the whole journey, to be honest. Like, it's just been me being a student because I get to talk to, you know, people every week on the podcast, like yourself.

I love being on your show. It was really, like I said, it was fun. I mean, I get that, and I love that mentality because I feel like we're always learning, always working on ourselves. So really, it's all been based around the page. And now your book and you have your podcast. But what I love about that is that, you know, women, since the time we're little, I mean, they have these studies that show how little Girls, babies interact with each other, making eye contact. And men don't. We are just. We naturally gravitate towards community and building women. And we talk about everything. Right. Since we're typing. Men just. You don't. You're like, if you have your due time. And this is stairs, I'm stereotyping right now. But you're gonna watch sports, you're gonna have a beer, you're gonna do something, you know, and it's not gonna be like, so, yeah, it was rough. I'm really having a hard time parenting. You know, it's having that kids, you know, what do you do? No, it would never come up.

It doesn't. And so what is that?

My heart goes out to men. That's why I love what you're doing, because it's such a service that guys. And guys are needing, and they're probably gonna be flocking to now, especially with the world, so.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, if you look at guys, though, and even their body language, like us in a social setting. Yeah. We talk about the same five things. We talk about current events, we talk about work, we talk about women. We talk about sports and the news and all that. Good. And then whatever sport our kid is in. Even the body language of men. Like, for instance, when we go to a kid party, which at this point.

I feel like you with four boys, you must never not be at a kid party.

It's like every weekend.

Right.

But so when we go to a party, like, it's fascinating to see the dynamics because, like, now that I know a little bit about, you know, body language and all that stuff, like, I'll watch. I love to watch. And women will sit, you know, face to face. They'll talk face to face. Men, they're side by side. You know, we have whatever we're drinking right up close to our chest, and it's like we're kind of like just lurking. And, like, you sort of like, talk, like here and there.

Right.

But you talk about those five things. But even our body language just. It shows that we're talking about the body.

You keep saying body language.

Yeah, it's like you're just like.

You're holding it. Yeah, it's like holding your cup.

You got. It's up here like this. You've got a cup in front of your chest. You know, it's like that's the way guys talk. And we talk side by side. We don't talk face to face, which I think for us would be kind of awkward anyway. But even Our body language shows that we're guarded and we don't talk.

So are you going into these places now? Like, you're going to the party? You're going, hey, guys, so tell me, how are things really going? You know, I mean, do you try to open it up, people, or no?

No. But I will say this, though. If. If a guy wants to create like that band of brothers, if he wants to create those good relationships, the one thing a guy has to do is be vulnerable first. And I'm not talking about you can't do it like, in this sappy way, like, oh my gosh, my wife hurt my feelings so bad. We just don't. We don't really relate that way. So, like, for instance, what it. What are the two words that men love to say more than anything? How's life treating you? I'm good, I'm fine. How are you? Good and fine. But. And that usually sets the stage for the entire conversation. But if you're like, man, to be honest with you, like, life is hard right now. Like, for instance, like, we're kind of going through a bit of a financial. Financial issue right now. Like, I took a cut in pay and whatever, and I noticed that you guys seem to have your finances together. How do you guys do it? And immediately what you'll see is that that other man's guard come down and then they'll start to talk. But you have to be the one to be masculine vulnerable, if that's even two word. But. But masculine vulnerable first in order to create that conversation.

Yeah, I love it. That's a great tool. I think that obviously the whole show could be on vulnerability. We have a lot to cover. Is that men don't even. You're right. They're thinking, they're crying, they're breaking down. It looks very different how a man can actually learn to be vulnerable. And the reason why, it's like invulnerability is not a weakness. It's actually the greatest. Such a great strength. I think it's when we really grow. So. Yeah. So you had to learn. So you've learned this all in the last five years too?

Yeah, I have.

What about therapy? What's your role? Because there's so many men that I, you know, and women. I think every therapy helps everybody.

I could not agree more. And I wish guys would get more on that page of. Of. So if I can go talk to somebody who has seen a ton of several different situations and patients and you've heard a gazillion stories, and if Someone could shorten my learning curve to less frustration. I mean, I will pay that person for that advice. And sometimes I. It just. I scratch my head and I'm just like, well, have you guys, you know, seen a marriage counselor? Have. Have you gone and talked to somebody? No. No, I can't do that. I'm not going to go see. Well, why wouldn't you? Why continue to bang your head up against the wall when you can go sit down with someone for an hour? And they could probably unpack some things and give you so much more clarity. It's so worth. It's so worth the time. It's so worth the money.

Right. Because there's still. There still is that stigma. Like, nothing's wrong with us. We don't need it. I think therapy is helpful for everybody. Men, women, couples. Do you ever do couples therapy?

Yeah, in fact, so my wife and I, we've been married for 14 years, and we're. We probably see somebody like, maintenance, like, at least I would say three to four times a year.

Yeah.

Because we'll reach that point, like, we'll have a hiccup in the relationship. And it's just like, I really don't. I don't know the answer to this to you. And she's like, no, I don't. Okay, well, let's go talk to Tom.

Exactly.

You know, and she's like, okay, let's go. So we'll get a sitter. We'll go. And then literally, it's usually something that's so simple, it's right there in front of us. And they're just like, well, have you guys tried this or thought of this? Like, no, we haven't. But if you think about it, we have this. We have this mentality about our cars. We'll do preventive maintenance on our cars, but we won't do it in our relationships.

Exactly. It's. I don't understand. We do not prioritize the health of our relationship at all. And we just think it's gonna magically cure itself. If it takes effort, there's something wrong with it. Because for some reason, like, one of the most important things in our lives is our relationship with our partners, if not the most. But we think it just be effortless and take no work and everything else that we care about in life, we do work on. You're absolutely right. And then when you get into these loops and you start thinking, like, you know, we don't need help and we can figure it out on our own, people don't realize, you had you could go in once and just be like, it's a different perspective. Because if you guys are having the same argument over and over and over again, you're not going to be able to get your way out of it. But it could even be something as simple as whatever. We can't deal with this conflict. And to have. Not. Not to have shame around that. Like, there's something wrong with your relationship. That we don't prioritize it.

Yeah. And then. Not to mention the fact that when we're in our situation, like when we're emotionally tied to our situation, we. We can't see the solution, usually because we're in it, you know, but someone else outside of us can usually see it. I actually have a question for you.

Yeah.

And hopefully this will help the men out there. But talking to as many women as you talk to, what is the big deal? Like, why do men. From a woman's perspective, why do we have such an issue with going and getting counseling?

I think it goes back to why men don't like asking for help or asking for directions. And that it has to do with feeling less than a man feeling. Like, if I can't figure this out and I don't have all this. These answers, I'm not in my masculine. Asking for help is weak. And I'd rather just. I'm gonna figure it out on my own. Cause that's my job. Yeah. I think it's just really, truly asking for help is a weakness.

We wanna fix stuff.

Yeah, you wanna fix it. Like, I can fix this. I can figure it out. And I think that what a lot of men.

What I love that you talk about a lot on your show is men isolate. We talk about the. We glorify the man cave. But what are you guys doing in there? Like, are you figuring shit out in there? No, probably not. You should probably invite some friends, the man cave. And then have some conversations. Because I think that men are like, I'm going to isolate. And I'm just going to try to have these same, you know, every day I'm just going to ruminate on these things because eventually I'll get to the answer. But it's kind of insanity. Like, do people think that if they go to therapy that there's going to be some men in, like, you know, a padded truck who's going to ship them off to, like, some mental. Like it means something's wrong or bad. But also it probably means too, that they think, you know, somewhere inside of them they're going to have to actually look at all this stuff they've been repressing their whole lives because we all have those things we do. Until you get them out or learn to talk about them with yourself, with your partner, they don't go away by sitting in your man cave trying to figure them out.

Do you think women. Do you think they don't see a counselor for the same reason men don't?

Yes. I think that anybody who's challenged right now around anything, it's been persisting. I don't have to, like, I don't even want to pathologize you and say you have a mental illness. But there's been something that's for years now has been plaguing you, you know, either in your relationship or maybe you're depressed or you are frustrated about, I don't know, that you keep picking the wrong kind of partner. And you. It's been persisting and you're thinking to yourself, I don't need help and I don't want to go to therapy. I feel like if there's something in your life like this right now, it makes no sense to me really, why you wouldn't even just try, why people would. Men or women wouldn't try to go talk to someone. And I feel like the reason why is because, to answer your question, is because I feel like everybody does need therapy because we all have those things in our heads that we don't deal with and we don't work on. But I feel like for men and for women who don't go to therapy, I think it's because the same reason that they are afraid of if they go, that everything that they've held, they're in control, everything that they've held at bay or repressed in their life is going to come tumbling out. They're going to have to feel everything at once because they've built these really strong structures in place and control in their life so they don't have to feel. So most of our suffering comes because we're repressing feelings. So the people who don't want to go therapy know that when they go in there, someone's going to actually make them be honest with themselves.

I think you're right.

That was my long way of saying, you know, right.

That is different.

And they're not evolved. And here's the thing, I spent so much of my life saying, like, why? And a lot of men I date, I'm like, he's not emotionally involved. He's not emotionally involved. I need a guy who's Done his work. I feel like that, yes, it's men and women, but for a lot of men, it's just like this would be such a, it's such a important journey that they have to go on.

It is. And why do it alone?

Right? Yeah, so you don't have to be alone. So here's what I want to say to you. I have a lot of women friends who have been married for a long time and people right into the show and I, they like, they love their husband. Things are, these are my friends in the healthy marriages. Right? Not all of them, but these are like good relationships. But they're like, they spend so much time handling their partner's mental health. Like, not like they're, you know, having emotional breakdowns in that way, but just like how to teach them how to get over fear and how to deal with emotions. So do you hear that from frustrated women? Or get guys come to you and say, like, yeah, my wife's been on me. Or like, what, what is a typical guy? How does he find his way to your podcast and to your masterminds?

So I the way guys, I think if you just go to Google and if you type in good dad, you know, like how to be a good dad, usually it comes up.

I love that nice SEO there.

It's pretty. Yeah, thank you, Google, and thanks for my SEO writer. But also if they go into podcasts and look at that, if they look up good dad, it's going to come up. But so many men are searching, how do I be a better dad? So many of us are. The thing that is most alarming, though, that I found with men is so many men, to quote hangover, you know, is I'm a lone wolf, you know, like a one man wolf pack. So many guys go at life alone. We are surrounded by people. We have so many acquaintances. So physically we are surrounded by people. Mentally and emotionally, we are isolated. I mean, so isolated. When I, I've talked to literally thousands of men over the past six years and one, I can count on one hand how many times I've asked, like, do you have a good support network? Do you have men in your life that are going, and I'm not talking about the guy like the good old guy from college and you talk about the good old days and all that. I'm talking about a guy who's in your life who's gonna tell it to you straight, who's gonna support you when you need it, and you're gonna do the same for him. And he's like, no, I don't.

They don't even know that that exists. So you're teaching men just the art of creating that sort of relationship and why they need it and want it.

The band of brothers. I mean, so many men want that. So many men need that. Here's the problem though. We don't have the skills, no kidding around to build this. We don't. We don't have skills.

You need a woman to help you put it together. Is that what it is? We'll facilitate the men becoming intimate and building community. But you're right, you don't, because you're like, I gotta follow through and respond and send a hard emoji. I mean, how do you do it then? What's your tip?

I had Steven Mansfield on the podcast not too long ago. He's in the mainstream media, he's written several New York Times best selling books and he has written books on Mansfield's Manly men, I think is one and building a band of brothers is another. But it's a skill set that we've lost, especially over the past, I would say five decades. In order to build a band of brothers, what we need to do is you have to do an activity that like. So for instance, you can't just ask a guy out for, hey, I'm going through a hard time, let's meet for coffee, talk about our feelings. You can't do that. But what you can do is you can be like, hey man, like, I have a new firearm. Do you want to go to the range? And do you want to, you know, or do you want to go hunting? Do you want to go fishing? So it has to be like activity.

Like an adrenaline something, maybe even, or.

Just maybe not even an adrenaline something that you're spending time together, doing something else. But. And then that relationship, what you can do, then you go back to that one thing I said before, which is you have to be the one to be vulnerable first. And when I say vulnerable, you have to do it in more of a masculine way. You can't be like, hey, hey, Tim, I want to talk to you about my feelings.

I love that example though.

But like, I mean, even like my father in law, he is like this blue collar, like manly, manly guy. And if I ask him how his day is, oh, it's good, it's fine. But if I say, man, I'm kind of going through a rough time, man, like, you know, business is a bit low right now, this and that's going on. What I'll notice was is he does the most, he. It's his favorite thing to do. And it's also. Every man's favorite thing to do, is problem solve. He'll help me fix it. He'll give me advice, you know, and then the cool thing about that is without him even knowing, he'll be like, you know, now that I think about it, there's this and this going on with my life, and then he'll start to talk and that kind of thing, and then I'll give him some advice. Now, we don't want to do that with our women because they get really pissed off. But we, as men, we really appreciate that. But you always got to be the one to talk first and not necessarily do it in a sappy way, but in more of a masculine way.

So what do you think? Why do you think men aren't naturally talking like this? What do you think is the fear?

Oh, my God. Fear of looking weak. I mean, no kidding around. Like, you don't want to let anyone in that I don't have my life put together. I don't want to let anyone in that maybe, you know, work is, you.

Know, not what seems on Instagram and Facebook or whatever.

Yeah, the highlight reel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the highlight reel. Yeah. Thank you, social media.

Exactly. Right. Women, we're all afraid of this.

Yeah.

But you realize that nobody has it together.

No.

Everybody struggles. Everyone has. That's a good thing. Like, you realize, you know, everyone's fighting their own battles. So is there anything that's come up for you in doing this work really intensely with men the last. How many years you would do this? Five years?

Six years? Yeah.

Like, what would you say are the common, like, questions or challenges that keep coming up over and over again for men?

Well, it's pretty much what we're going to talk about right now.

Okay.

I'm sure. Anyway. Or at least it's sex.

Oh, baby. Yeah, bring it.

Sex, intimacy, communication.

So they're bringing it up. And what are they asking? I know when I was on your podcast, which is awesome, you asked me some great questions. It was like, what are. What are the women. Like, you just asked me just now, like, what are the. Why do women think that men think this way? And I love that perspective.

So.

So what are they asking you, Larry?

So I. It's not so much what they ask, it's what they say.

What they say.

And I'll tell you this. And I would love to hear what women say, too. So men are just. They're like, why do I always have to initiate you Know, I feel like she never wants to. Like, you know, she's always initiate sex or why is she always tired? You know, I feel like she's always stressed out.

What can I do?

What can I do? How can I fix it?

How can I fix it?

Right. Which women don't want, trigger.

Right.

Which I think more. The more men try to fix, the more that intimacy there's gonna. They're gonna create that barrier of intimacy right there if they try to fix, you know, if you can listen empathetic. I think that's the one thing we help teach guys. Like, listen to her. Like, like, really listen.

Yeah. Let's talk about how do you teach men to listen? What have you learned about listening to women in communication?

I made such horrible mistakes, like, in the beginning of me and my wife's relationship. Like, I would always want to fix it, you know, and even before she would get through a sentence of venting, like, I'd want to fix whatever was wrong.

Your brain can't help it, right?

So I literally, even now, like, even though I know better, like, I have to shut it off. I'm like, don't. Like, don't. Don't give her advice. And I always listen empathetically and not sympathy. I give empathy.

Give me an example. So I came to you, and I'm like, my boss just keeps writing me, I was supposed to stay at the office. I leave by 5, I left by 7. And everyone I work with is terrible, and I'm exhausted, and how do I come home when I'm supposed to have dinner on the table and whatever. I'm exhausted about work and the responsibilities that I have right now, and I don't know how I can do it all.

So the man in me wants to be like, well, why do you feel that way? Like, why are you so upset? You know, like. And I think we do that. Like, what's the problem? Or like, why was your day so tough? Like, that one's. That one's brutal, you know? Like, why is your day so tough? Like, I don't understand what you. I'll tell you about my day, right?

Or if they don't work, maybe they're home, whatever it is. Right, Right.

But I think you can listen to be like, God, that really sucks. Like, yeah, tell me more about that, you know? And like, literally, that's it.

Like, empathy.

Yeah, Empathy.

So that sucks, babe. So tell me more about it.

Tell me more about it. And I think sympathy, it's an insult, right? Because you're like, I'm so sorry that happened to you. That really sucks, you know? And then you. You, like, lay on the pity party versus, like, I think all you have to do is be like, man, that really does suck. Like, tell me more about that.

Validating that. Like, it's okay that you feel that way. And I'm interested in hearing because sometimes we just want to talk.

Right.

We don't think you can fix the challenges I've been having for five years. My boss or whatever, or the kids. But we want. We want someone there for us.

Right? And I think the other thing you could do, too, is, like, listen to the words that she's saying. Like, I've been. I've had a horrible day. My boss, this and that. And now I got to make dinner. Be like, man, that really sucks. Like, I. Let's talk about it. I'll tell you what. Let's cook dinner together. I'll pour you a glass of wine. We'll talk about it. And I. And just shutting up and just listening like it's. It's a game.

You want to feel. Yeah, we want to feel, you know, seen and that you're listening, and then that's how we feel. Like, you care for us. When you're paying attention to that. You've shared a lot about your personal story and everything that you're doing. That's what drove you to doing this. So in the last five years with your wife. I'm saying it's about five years that you've been starting on this journey. Can you tell me about some of the things that you guys have gone through and how it's changed and what you've learned around. I want to hear about. Like, I do want to hear about your. Your sex life and stuff.

Of course.

So intimacy. I can't always be easy with four kids.

Well, in the past five years, we. We went from two kids to four, and that was. That was. And then we. We actually lost one, like, traumatically. So that was. That really tested us as well. But, yeah, we. We've moved, too. So it's, like, moving. We lost. We lost a kid. We went from. From two kids to four kids and never thought we'd actually have four kids. We always kind of thought we'd be at two, but, yeah, I guess, you know, a good sex life does. You know, that's. That's the side effect of it, right?

Yeah.

More kids. But anyway. Yeah. So I'm glad to talk about. Anything you want to talk about.

No, but, like, tell me about. Yeah, like, where you were at and What? I don't know. Yeah. What have you. What have you learned about it? Like, what is. What's changed over the last few years since you think you've become more.

Well, I think everything. The biggest lesson I've learned is what I do outside the bedroom is way more important. What I do in the bedroom.

Ooh, tell me more.

So, like, for instance, like listening and not fixing.

That's huge.

The other thing too that I think is a game changer is understanding the way she needs to be loved and not how I want to love her. So, like, for instance, like my love languages.

Love languages, which I love them. Go. Tell me what are your. What you are.

Mine is words of affirmation and physical touch. And so hers are acts of service and quality time. So like, you know, I always want. If I'm touching her, grabbing her like she's a stay at home mom. And like, if I'm touching her, it's. It's another person in that house that she feels wants something from me. So like, I've learned, like, if I. If I feel that nudge to be, like, I want to go up to her and like, get my hands on her and all that, like, I'll.

And she's like, there have been four children hanging off of me today. Yeah, yeah. Which is not you. Right? I got it. I've heard. Yes.

When you're wiping asses and nose, like, you don't really feel sexy at the end of the day, I'll say that. But I just, I love her in the way she needs to be loved. So I know the fact that, you know acts of service.

Right. We're talking about. I've talked about this in the show and I love the love. I feel like of all the books and things I've studied, I think this is such a great tool for. Tool for any couple. It's called a lot. Five Love Languages and the book by Gary Chapman. And there's like tests you can take online, but really we all have five. There's five love languages. And typically we lean towards two ways that we receive love. So for example, knowing I'm just gonna break that yours is like physical touch, you would obviously that makes you feel loved. So you'd go and hug her. Cause that's how you. That's all you know. But to her, you find out she wants you to empty the dishwasher. Maybe she's acts of service. Right?

Yeah. Or even the other thing that I've learned too, and I think that this is a big one for guys And I think it's overlooked is let her have time with her girls. Like, and let is a really bad, like, get her out of the house. And a lot of women, like my wife included, she feels guilty about leaving and I'm like, get out. Please get out. Like, because you're going to come back better for you, which means you're going to come back better for us. So just go get your cup filled. Go get your cup poured into. You need to be with your girls and just get out, you know, let your hair down. So like, and I'll. I'll hang out with the boys, you know, and she does the same for me too.

But so important. Yeah, you're right. It's nurturing for we. It fuels me even when I find, like, I don't. I'm not around friends for a while. Like, I crave that. And I feel like for all my married friends, I have to force them. Like, you need to take. Get a babysitter tonight. Do it. You haven't had any self care. And if your husband's backing you up on it, I know that that would be so much easier because a lot of women struggle with that. That's a great suggestion.

I think some guys though. Well, I don't want her to go out.

Right.

But I think you got it.

She was going up before she met you when you fell in love with her. She had a really full life and lots of friends and things going on and you'll find that attractive. Is it we kind of.

Oh, yeah. So sex for us is, is a big deal. I mean, it really is. So, you know.

Taking care of four kids and, you know, everyone's like, well, we don't have time. No, you have to make the time.

Can we. Yes. Talk about this? Because I get out. That's probably one of the top questions I get asked too. Like, we have no time, we can't have sex. She doesn't want it. He doesn't want it. So tell me how you guys navigate this with four kids.

Yeah. So we have to get creative with it sometimes. But I will say this. So at night, neither one of us like to have. It's all right, we'll have night sex, but we like day sex. But at night, like, we're both exhausted and if it's been a few days and we both are like, I really want it, but I'm tired. We're like, let's just do it. Like, let's just do it anyway, we'll be happy.

Both want to. Right.

And so we do and we're always happier that we are. But. So I'll give you another perfect example. So when we have a date night, at least another tip is have a date night. Like, no kidding around, plan.

Just like, you never plan. You never, you never. You never compromise a date night. You're never like, well, Tuesday's date night, but we're going to do something else. No. And if.

Even if you don't feel like, go out.

Yeah, this is so true.

You have to do it. But there are different things that we do to, like. Like, for instance, if we're out and we're having a really, really good time, and, like, the conversation is really, really good, and we're just having a blast. Like, I mean, there have been times where, like, I'll just go to my Marriott app and just grab a. Grab a room, and you don't have to stay all night long.

It's like 70.

Yeah, just go do it. And so, like, you know, I'll just say at the end of dinner and be like, hey, I just. I just grabbed us a room. You want, you want to continue over there? And she'll be like, yeah. And then, so we'll. We'll just, we'll go. And then we're still home in time to relieve the babysitter and all that good stuff. But just getting out of that element, even having sex outside of your bedroom because you still got your, like, your laundry and all this other crap everywhere, like, you need to get away from the house and have sex somewhere else.

Sometimes it's the element of surprise. People always want to go back to that honeymoon phase. Like, we don't have those. You don't surprise your partner anymore. There's not the newness, the novelty. And I love that you do that.

Well, there's one other thing too, like, that we could. We could find a million reasons why, oh, we shouldn't get a hotel room. We have a house. Get a hotel room. Just. Just do it. Because you're going to be so happy that you did. I mean, there's going to be a million reasons why you shouldn't do those things.

There's always going to be reasons why you shouldn't. But how is the things that you're not doing work for your relationship. And I think that, like, hotel sex, vacation sex, pretty much guaranteed, like, across the board. Like, I feel like there's some things you're saying, like, date night. It works for most couples I know because you are prioritizing each other that one night, and you're mixing up Location. That's just. We all have sex in the same place the same way. Many of us.

Yeah.

Now tell me about your. Your kids, too. I want to hear how you, how you've been talking to your kids about sex. I feel like you would probably do that in a way. I just, I feel like. Yeah, yeah, porn. Not something lazy right now. Well, I mean, it has to happen.

It does.

Younger.

I heard this quote, and it's so true. If it's not you, it's YouTube. Seriously, for dads and moms out there. If it's not you explaining this, it's YouTube explaining it to your kids. So you better get to them.

YouTube. Are you porn?

Are you porn? Yeah. So my 11 year old is. He's been asking a lot of questions, like where do babies come from? And all this stuff. So he plays hockey. We had a hockey tournament a few weeks back and it was a two hour drive there and back, so four hours. So I knew, I knew going into that he was going to ask about sex. And sure enough, he did. So I told. This is how I prefaced it. I was like, look, I was like, I'm going to tell you all about this. I was like, but this conversation, I was like, I'm like, I'm not kidding around. This conversation has to be between me and you because you can't go into your friends on the playground. All this is between me and you. This is not for you to tell another kid. Parents need to tell their kids or tell your brothers.

You say, don't tell your brothers either.

Yeah, I was like, you do not tell, you know, your, your little brother Mason. That's for me to tell him. He's like, okay, I swear. So I, I told him about it. I told him how he did. I was like. And I, I told him in the probably the most generic way possible, but the end of it. And if you want details, I can.

Tell you a little bit, but I want to know how you even start.

So I just told him. I was like. I was like, well, you know how. I was like, you know what boys have, right? And he's like, yeah, you know what girls have? Yeah. I was like, well, vagina. Yeah, exactly. So he's like. So basically what you do is man puts his penis into the mom's vagina. And, you know, that's how a baby is made. This is the funny part, though. He goes, that. He goes, first of all, that's disgusting. He goes, number two. He's like, how does a baby get in there? I was like, Well, I was like, if it hasn't happened to you already, it will happen to you any day now.

Right?

I was like, but when you get really, really aroused and, you know, you get hard and all this stuff, I was like, you're gonna have stuff that comes out. And he's like, what are you talking about? I was like, well, it's called semen, and it looks like snot. And he's like, what? He, like, flips out. He's like, what? And I was like. And in that. I was like, is what? Like what's called sperm? And it goes in there and fertilizes the mom's egg and then a baby fertilizer. And he's like, that's gross. I'm never doing that ever. And so, yeah, that's how I explained it.

Right. But no, but then, you know, and then he'll have. You'll continue to ask. I feel like the big thing with kids is that, like, my mom would tell me that. Some kind of story, but. And you're like, come to me anytime you have questions. But I don't think that kids know what the questions are. So it's like, you got to keep continuing the conversation.

You do. And I told him. I was like, look, you know, anytime you have questions, you know, and I. I would. I still check in with him periodically. This was a while ago, but I. I still, you know, I'll put him to bed at night and be like, you know, hey, if. If anything's going on, I'm your go to, like, just. Just come and talk to me. And sure enough, he'll ask more questions, and that question will turn into another question.

Right.

So, yeah, it's. It's continuous conversation.

Good. You're doing the work.

Yeah.

You're still your own project, but you're helping a lot of people. Larry Hagner, Good Dad Project. Tell me about what's going on now. What's the People could go to your site, check out your podcast, your mastermind group.

Yeah. So we have a couple things. I've got the podcast that's been around for a long time. It was Good Dad Project podcast. Now it's the dad Edge podcast. We have a Facebook group that has nearly 10,000 guys in it.

Amazing.

It's a free group called the dad Edge on Facebook. And then I've got the dad Edge alliance mastermind community, where we have almost a couple hundred guys in there.

Great.

Yeah.

People can do it online. I mean, it's wherever you live.

Everything's virtual. We literally. Virtual world Virtual. Yeah. When we have these mastermind calls, we do them every single week on Zoom. So we'll have, like, anywhere from 10 to 15 guys at a time on a call, because we have one literally Monday through Friday. But the funny thing is, we'll have guys in Thailand, Australia, and then in the US and then over in Ireland. And so it's like the next day in Australia and then in Ireland, they're like 10 hours ahead. And we always joke. I feel like we just ripped a hole in the space time continuum because it's Wednesday here, but it's Thursday in Australia.

Is there any cultural differences you're noticing? Because I know a lot of our listeners. We have ton of listeners all over the world. So anything you're noticing when it comes.

To fatherhood, there hasn't been a whole lot of. At least my live conversations with guys. There hasn't really been a whole lot of big cultural differences.

Got it. Okay, cool. But any man can join and check it out. So wait, I feel like we didn't with yours. So with your sex life, though, in particular, was there anything in particular that has. I don't know that you're like, God, I wish someone told me this about keeping sex. Besides the location, was there any kind of discussions or communicating about it that was. Do you use any toys? Do you do anything fun like that?

Well, we do subscribe to Emily's Box.

I love that you did that. I love it. And you like it. When we. I was on your podcast, you told me that you like it. The box.

I love Emily's Box.

Who doesn't, right? No, but it's a. I have a subscription box on my site. It's called. Yeah, Emily's Box. But you get. That's great for you. Get a box you get. Every month, every few months, it's something different.

It is. Cool. So I'll give you this perfect example.

How much one did you get? Yeah.

So the other night, my wife and I, you know, it had been a few. It had been a few days, and we're here, but, like, you could. You could just tell when each one of you wanted.

Right.

But we were just a few days.

Since you had sex, right?

Yeah.

You're saying. Yeah, I hear this.

And it was one of those things where the kids were like maniacs, and we were trying to put away Christmas stuff. We're like, oh, my God. And then we're like, hey, let's go see what's in the box. So we went in there, and in the box, there's this really cool candle that as it melts like it does this. Yeah, yeah. And it smells like chocolate. So I was just like, oh my. And my wife is big on massage, by the way. Tip guys, massager. Women like, to her that's foreplay.

It is.

She loves it.

Literally. It is for we are relaxed, we're in the mood, you warm us up.

Yeah, right. You use the.

Done. Okay, tell me.

We used the candle. And the cool thing was, is like, I mean it smelled really, really good and we used the oil that you're supposed to. And, and she loves massages. So it's just like it was perfect. And then there's all kinds of other.

Stuff in there too, but yeah, there's good toys.

Yeah, but we really liked that.

I'm so glad you're gonna come into the. We're doing a little shot. You're gonna come home with a good little gift package. I would say for the whole family, but not for the kids. Okay, Larry, you're gonna stay with me and help me answer some emails from the listeners. I love that. Thank you so much for being here, Larry Hagner. Check them all out at the Good Dad Project. We're gonna give a shout out to our sponsors cuz we love them and we love you for supporting them. I love you guys all anyway, even if you didn't support. Well, as long as you didn't say anything bad about them. I'm just glad you're here along for the ride. Love you all. We'll be right back.

Okay, Larry, I gotta see the five questions I ask everyone on the show. They're rapid fire. Don't overthink this. Here you go. Ready? What's your biggest turn on?

A blowjob.

I'm not gonna lie. I hear ya. Biggest turnoff.

Biggest turnoff is a woman who's way too high maintenance.

Craziest place you've gotten busy in the.

Middle of the woods during the day.

Nice. Sexiest part of your partner's body.

God, my wife's eyes. Just amazing.

What's the one thing you wish you could tell your partner about your. You probably have done that about your body's needs or. Here's this for you. What's something that a partner taught you about your body and your needs?

That's a really good question.

It's not that rapid fire this morning.

No.

Everyone's like, what?

Yeah, that one's tough.

Can I just say red or blue or not?

Yeah.

I would say. God, I don't know.

It's okay, it's okay. Cool. You can learn something along the way. Maybe there's something to learn still. That's what we're learning here. Okay, so, so we're gonna get on to emails questions here from the people. Thank you everyone for emailing me. I love, love, love hearing from you. If you have a question you want me to answer on the show that's amazing, you can text me to your question, which is so easy. Text Ask Emily one word to 797979. That's Ask Emily 2797979. You can also email me on the website via the Ask Emily tab. And as always, include your name, your age, your gender, where you live, how you listen. This is Tracy, 47, from Missouri. I'm a recent listener and I love your show. You've touched on some topics I'd like to hear more about. I've been married for 25 years to my college sweetheart. After our 25th anniversary, I made a conscious decision to work on me. And together we are working on us. We have two children, a 19 year old son and a 15 year old daughter. In a recent podcast you touched on this topic of sex education. I truly believe that this has to start at home, but you're right, no kid is going to come up to mom with questions. Even if you have a very open relationship and frequent discussions about sex, I find it easier to have these conversations with my daughter. I'm seeking tips for moms to have the sex dialogue with sons and dads to have better sex conversations too. On the other hand, I'd like to hear more advice for keeping or reigniting mature long term relationships and how to keep the spark alive after so many years. Thanks for all the work you do. I'm still learning. Tracy, thank you so much for emailing this. So 25 years together, 25th anniversary, starting homosexual education. I guess we kind of touched on that. I understand why it's easier to have with your daughter.

I feel like it's not censoring being as real as you can. If they're asking the questions, you gotta, you know, you gotta answer them in the most real way possible. But also you have to keep. I think it's that our job as parents, your job is. I'm not a parent, but it is to keep going back. Cause they're learning new stuff every day. They might not like think about it, like to learn something new, we have to hear it a few times, a few different ways. Your son was probably like, wow, Dad's talking. He might only remember like something shooting. That looks like Snot out of his penis. He may not remember anything else around that. Just that. Better make sure nothing shoots on it. You got to keep going. What would you say to that? Part of it? And then we can get into the steamy part.

I say you always have to keep. And it's kind of serendipitous that you're answering her. I bet she's from St. Louis or maybe she's not. And that's where I'm from.

Yeah, that's where you're from. That's where you live now.

That's where I live now, yeah.

Okay.

I think you have to talk to them on the age that they're on, you know, so like for instance, I don't think they like for like my 11 year old doesn't need to know like about blow jobs and all that other stuff right now. Like, give him the basics and like get whatever age your kid is at, like, meet them where they're at. But the other thing too is always tell them that, hey, this is an ongoing conversation. This is not like a one and done where you're going to talk to me about it and then we're never going to talk about it again. I'm your person that you can come talk to. Because I would rather my son view me as like, well, I can go talk to dad about it. I have to go talk to my friends about it.

Right.

You know, and find out things. And I don't have to go to YouTube about it or whatever other site you or YouTube. Yeah, you or YouTube. So yeah, just keeping that conversation open like that.

Okay, that's good. Okay. Also, let's. I know you got more tips than the ones you told me. She wants to reignite the spark, mature, long term relationships. How to keep this park after so many years. What would you say there? You bet. 15 years.

Yeah. So number one, it's everything that we do outside the bedroom is what makes inside the bedroom so much better. Yeah. But don't be afraid to do things different. And I don't mean like, I mean, you don't have to get freaky with that. Like, so for instance, my wife and I are our next date night. Like, we're going to get kind of extravagant with it. So our next date. Like, I've known my wife for 22 years. We've been married for 14.

Okay.

And so one of the things we've talked about doing is going out on a date night but going out separately and like literally making a profile of the person that we are. Like what we do for a living, all this other stuff. And then a role play, like a.

Profile, like texted to each other. I love it.

And then like where we actually meet each other at a restaurant or a bar, whatever. We strike up a conversation. We already know exactly what person we are. So we're going to fill out like a questionnaire and we're going to have a story behind it and all this. And then.

That's hot. No, I always say role play. People like, roll their eyes. It's so hard. I have a few friends who've done this sexy stranger. They just make it up as like, that is. It's hot. You're like, here's my wife. I fell in love with her already, right? You're gonna do this next week.

We're planning on doing it here real soon. Like, we're, we're, we've been kind of joking about it. So, like, her, her brother just came over to help me move a fridge downstairs and we were joking about it. Like I was holding the fridge and her brother went to go do something and she's like, oh, you're my sexy delivery man. And then her brother came back, he's like, what are you guys talking about? And my wife goes, he's my sexy delivery man. He's like, I don't want to hear this shit.

Right? That's almost right. It's true. These little things, like the next time. I love it. Yeah, yeah.

So we're gonna do that next time.

Good. Let me know how that goes. Okay. Well, thank you for being here. Larry. Larry Egnor. Check them all out. The Good Dad Project. Thank you, my amazing team, Ken and Jamie and our volunteers, Shannon and Jenny, producer Lark and. And Michael. And thanks everyone for listening. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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