The Truth About Relationships with Neil Strauss

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Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex. Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.

Bedroom eyes they call them in a bygone day.

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Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean?

Like laundry? It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much? Are you kidding me? Oh my God, I feel so drunk. Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to sex with Emily, we're talking about sex, relationships and everything in between. For more information, go to sexwithemily.com youm can check out our podcast. All of my podcasts are there. You know, I've been doing it for 12 years. You can download. There's so much more available there that's even available on itunes. You can also get it on Google Play, SoundCloud, Spotify, iHeartRadio. That's the latest place. I love when you review us. I like it when you say nice things. I like affirmations. But it's cool. If you wanna say not nice things, that's fine too. It helps us to get reviewed and most importantly, to subscribe to the podcast. Cause when you subscribe to the podcast, you know what? One of the bonuses, one of the benefits of when you subscribe, you can actually go back to your place. You could like go back to where you were listening. And if you're not a subscriber, that doesn't happen. But also that also helps us so we can continue to keep the podcast free, get more listeners. It's all about subscrib. I don't have to explain that to you. You guys get it. You've been listening also. Please follow me on social media. Cause that's a really good time. I answer your questions. I like to say hi, but listen, no dick pics. You guys know like the second there's a dick pic, you're gone. I delete you from Snapchat and wherever it does, but wherever that happens. But I do love hearing from you. Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, it's all sexwithemily. So today I am very excited for my guest, Neil Strauss. Hi Neil.

Thank you for having me. How many dick pics do you get actually?

Okay, that's a good question. It's funny cause my friend was visiting me from Chicago. You very different kind of lifestyle. She had three kids. It was like she was taking time off from her family. And I don't really talk about. But lately I've been like every other show I bring that up. Cause I get, I would say a few a month maybe. You'd think you'd be crazy and you think that would be encouraging people mostly.

Like one dick pic is one too many. Exactly.

One dick pic, one too many. But she was with me and I was just. Now it's like a habit. I'm like, oh, dick pic block. She's like, what was that on your phone? I just saw that and I thought that was a dick pic.

I was thinking about like, why guys send dick pics. And let's talk about that for a second before we get into other stuff. But so the first reason I was thinking, well, they think, oh, like, a woman's anatomy is hot, so she might be hot seeing my anatomy and not getting it right. So that was what I originally thought. But so many, like, dick pics have been like, you don't anyone in the world knows dick pics aren't hot. And girls make show them to each other and laugh and then delete it and make fun of you and block you. So I also think. I also think it may be a guy's way of saying, well, this is never gonna happen, but at least you've been really close to my dick, right? So I think it may not be a seductive thing or just like a show off thing. I think there's also a show off element too. Look at this. I'm proud of it. This angle makes it look exactly, exactly.

I shaved. Like, I bought one of those penis pumps we should never use. Those don't work, by the way.

So I think it's another way of like, saying, okay, listen, you're gonna be like, at least like, my dick's been close to your face. I think that might be one reason why guys do it, which is kind of an assault on other people.

It is an assault. It is an assault. Yeah, your dick's been close to me. And then I guess. And then they might think it's kind of like a numbers game, right? Like, if I send to a hunt, maybe there'll be one woman who's like, numbers.

It's a dick's game.

I in no way. My ego is not that big to think that I'm the only one who got that dick pic that day. And you probably have, like, a code. You probably have a library.

Do you think they have, like, a mass text distribution list?

I don't. Yeah, I do. I do. I think they're like, who have I sent this dick to? Or maybe they do, like, ab testing or something. Which dick ticks. Getting Dick tick. Dick pics getting more responses.

But now when you're saying it's a numbers game, but do you think there is a number? Like, out of a thousand dick pics, one gets like, oh, I like your dick.

Yeah. So I'm thinking they're thinking that there's gotta be somebody. If I send this to everybody I know there's gotta be some woman who's like, oh, nice dick. Like, nice. Thank you. And let's go out. I don't know if that happens. I'd actually kind of like to hear from people if that's true.

Okay, let's do that.

If your dick pic opened some kind of door for you in some way, and your relationship started because of someone got your dick pic, and they were just so overwhelmed and thrilled by that, I would like to know if that exists.

And let me make a clear distinction here, which is if you're going to respond to this, the dick pic has to have been received before you saw this person naked.

Yes, exactly. It wasn't like they've already sucked your penis, sucked your dick or anything like that.

And he was just a souvenir to.

Remember it exactly like that dick pic opened the door. It was like. It was a great pickup line, but it was a dick pic. Can you imagine? Well, okay. Neil Strauss. Hi, Neil.

Yeah, hey.

I've always wanted to. I mean, I. So it's funny because the game came out in 2005, which was the first year I started my podcast.

Oh, no way. That's interesting. Yeah.

And it was really the first thing that I was. I was thinking when I was driving over here, I was like, God, I would have dreamed then to have you on the show because I had all your, like, lackeys on, like, people who. Who wanted to be.

Oh, no way.

Pick up artist. They wanted to be in that world. And they were all like, the game became a bible. I actually don't know what was happening pre game. Like, were you the one who kind of shed the first person who opened that up or were. These guys are underground.

Yeah, they know. They're. Yeah, they all existed. They were all underground, doing their thing.

Right.

And I found it, like, not to write a book just because I was just really lonely and couldn't connect with women. Or I'd, like, make a. I'd be interested in someone and they would, like, start dating someone else. And I'm like, what do I not know? What am I doing wrong? Like, I'm interesting. I'm writing for Rolling Stone. I'm going to these amazing concerts, like, with backstage passes. Like, why? You know, I'm going on the road with Motley Crue, and nothing is happening. And I just could not figure it out. And either I was. And I felt like these, like, you know, guys who didn't have money, didn't have looks, didn't have fame, but had cracked this code. Like, dude, like, you guys are. You're doing it without the things I thought I grew up thinking I needed.

I love going back to this because People who don't. And I find that some people. I'm always amazed when they haven't heard of it. So that's really what it was.

You.

You were kind of. You know, you were a writer. You had all these friends who were getting like. And you kind of were like, how do they do it? What is the secret?

Yeah.

And you went in and you, like, live with them in their communities, and you've learned how to.

Like, my whole career was basically based on me, like, trying to figure out how to have sex.

Right. And then all of a sudden, you.

Were having lots of sex, Right. Cause literally, like, first. So I did a book with Motley Crue, not just to do this. The Dirt, which. That's my other favorite book. I don't know if you've read it, but it's.

No, I wouldn't.

And you would think, well, why would I want to read that? I'm not a Motley Crue fan. But I promise you, like, it's. And again, I'm not a fan of all my books, but that one, like, you just can't stop.

You're not a fan of.

You can't stop reading.

Okay. No, I will.

And again, like, it's. Yeah, it's nuts. It's crazy. So anyway, so I went on the road with them because I thought, oh, dude, if I'm on the road with Motley Crue with backstage passes, like, come on. And so I still didn't. And then I'm like, okay, I know. I'll do a book with Janet Jamison. The porn stars. You're on a ton of porn stars. Like, they have sex all the time. And so still nothing happened. And then I kind of gave up. And then I found out about this community. I'm like, okay, maybe I can figure this thing out.

And you live with them in the community. I knew that they kind of existed, but I feel like they were all, like, hitting me up. Like, let me be on your show. Like, I was in San Francisco at the time. So they came on, and they were.

Well, a weird thing happened after the game, but just to, like, put the closer on that. And this is true for anybody out there who's trying to get, like, anything, whether it's sex, fame, money, grow your brand, whatever your thing is, followers, whatever it is. Like, obviously, the greatest thing about getting the thing you want for whatever, whether it's the sex or the money or the fame or the thing or whatever it is, the greatest thing about getting it is you realize that it totally satisfies Nothing.

Exactly.

And then you real. Then you start fixing. That's probably what led to the truth. Then you start fixing the real problems inside that made you want in the first place.

Exactly. Oh, my God, it's so true. I mean, we all. We for. Everyone says it's about the journey. It's about the journey, like. And you're just like, fuck it, I want to get to this place then. Exactly. You got there. Even just little things and big things, like driving here. I was like, I would have been so psyched to interview you 10 years ago. I'm like, oh, now you don't care.

I don't care.

I was really excited. I was really excited. But I was like, oh, my God, did I have a moment? But yeah. Or all the things that have happened to me. I was broke. Starting the podcast. And then you get to certain places and. Yeah, exactly. So it's not about the. It's not really about. Not that we shouldn't have goals and aspirations, but the truth, what it brought you to. So here was. Neil, you guys should have gone back to the point.

But I want to make the point that I think you're trying to make.

Yes.

That. Why not just fill the hole now versus trying to get something else to fill it and then move forward? Because you're really gonna be happy and have a better life. Cause I interview a lot of people for Rolling Stone. So I interview people who, like, are at the top of the game of music, film, entertainers, that kind of stuff. And when they hit their peak, when they're just like a household name, there's something that always happens, which is they hit a big depression because they realize before it's like, oh, I'm sad, I'm depressed, I'm struggling. But that's just because I'm not there yet.

Right.

Then you get there and you're still sad and depressed, and you can't blame it on anything else but yourself.

Exact.

And that's why you'll see them turn to. The smart ones will turn. Yeah. Either they'll turn to drugs or to spirituality. Right. Or they'll find something. They'll fill a hole with something good or something bad.

Right. So that's. Exactly. So that's what happened to you really, with the game as far as, like, probably love and relationships. And that's why I think the truth. You went through this whole journey of five years. It took you to write it. I wanna back up for a minute about this hole. Cause you just said that it'd be so great if you could Fill the hole beforehand before you get to this depression. But I think that that's the impetus. Right. There's no deterrent at that point. There's no rock bottom. Right, right. I mean, you're not like, if I. I couldn't have stopped people, I believe they couldn't have stopped on the climb up to the top to just take time out and go to therapy and be spiritual, because you have to kind of get to that place. It's kind of like the rite of passage.

Yeah, yeah. It is part of this, part of that. It's true. It's totally part of the journey, which is why there's nothing. I don't regret that game experience because I needed to take that journey to realize I didn't need it.

You didn't break that, but it gave.

Me a lot of other things.

Right.

And also, here's another thing that's probably true to some listeners and other people, which we didn't mention, which is some people feel like love will feel the whole. Like, if I have people who feel incomplete without someone else, like, dude, if you don't feel complete without a relationship, then you're not ready for a relationship.

Right, right. It's so true. Like, you know, if you feel like half a person, you're gonna attract another half a person that is gonna fill the areas where you don't feel so great about yourself, which I agree. I know you've. You've said that as well.

That's like the definition of codependence, dysfunctional relationships.

Right.

So two holes coming together. That's a great relationship.

Right? Exactly. And we tend to attract that which we think will fill us up. So at the end of the day, we think it's love, we think it's sex, we think it's affirmation, we think it's money, we think it's all this stuff from the outside, but really it's about loving ourself and understanding ourself.

Right. And. But. And those are easy things to say. Right.

But it's so hard to understand. It's easy to say, but people like, oh, yeah, I love myself.

Right.

Or, I want to go make a lot of money.

Right. Or even focusing on getting what you need from the inside out instead of the outside in.

So after the game, you had all the success, so you kind of riding high, doing all these things, and then you. That's when you kind of. You hit your depression. You hit, like. Let's talk about that. What happened?

Yeah, yeah, I think.

Yeah.

So, like, the totally, like, totally honest Thing, and it's in the book, so it's not like a giant revelation, but it's true that. So, like, just my relationships kept failing. Like, either I was cheated on or I was cheating. And eventually I just, like, cheated on someone I loved. Like, thought we had a future together. And then I just thought, why? How could I hurt somebody I loved and cared about? Like, what's. Like, why am I hurting my chance for a better future? Why did I betray my own ethics and moral system by lying and betraying them and all the stuff? So I really felt just devastated. So I went to, like, sex addiction rehab.

Was that your idea, or was that, like, a therapist's idea? That was.

It was actually. It was actually Rick Rubin, the producer, was his idea. And he lives in the neighborhood, and we go for, like, paddle boards, and he'd just give me life advice. And he was the one who said, like, look, you got everything you wanted with the game, and you're still not happy. You know, maybe you got to look at this.

Right?

So then you.

Right. And you kind of detail all. A lot of it in the book is about your sex addiction rehab, but you kind of find out you're not really a sex addict.

No. Yeah, it was interesting.

There's a lot of revelations, but it.

Was the greatest thing. So here's the thing. I recommend addiction, like, therapy for everybody. Not necessarily the 12 steps that you didn't even.

Okay.

I mean, I think that's great for addiction. But what I mean is this. And I could talk about what some of them are and where I'd recommend people go. But it's the. Here's the great thing about, like, regular therapy, like, talk therapy. You just go in a room, you talk to somebody for an hour. There's no treatment plan. You don't know when you're done. Like, you don't really know where you're going. You just talk about some stuff, and they give you some ideas and thoughts and insights.

So when you say that, and I agree with you that talk therapy, I mean, I've done a lot of, you know, for like, 15 years, I was in talk therapy and group therapy. And then I tried some other things. I'm wondering for you, what were the other. So trauma therapy. But what are the therapies?

Yes. Let's talk about this. This is great. I really like. And again. But I really think it's true. I think there are a couple issues. One is, like, the therapy model doesn't work. That we have. The second one is we're not, like, If I have like a soapbox or something or something like that, I want to change the world is that we don't take our mental and psychological and emotional health seriously. And we're not taught that. So in other words, when you're growing up, if you go to doctors for a checkup, whether you're sick or not, you go to school for intellectual education, whether you're smart or not. But you don't go to work on your emotional health unless it's totally dysfunctional and destroying everything. Or they prescribe the pill for you.

Exactly.

So if we taught, you know, emotional health and well being and mindfulness and all those things is just part of the process.

I totally agree.

We'd have like a healthier society everywhere. If you want to change the world, we're already fucked, like, but the kids still have hope.

Well, I think it's funny because on the show I'm always, and I say this a lot to people, a lot of my listeners, I'm like, you just, you guys, you need therapy. It sounds like you need therapy. And also like being on Loveline, you need therapy. And it's so. I don't want that to always be like my main, you know, you gotta listen to em. So for some people though. But some people, I think, like, I feel like for me, talk therapy did got me to a point where I was like, oh, I really didn't have the perfect childhood. Oh, this is how things. I almost needed to.

But here's the thing, here's the thing, by the way, there are two issues. But here's the thing about that. It's a great start. Understanding is not enough. So there's almost worse in nlp, it's called conscious incompetence. You know, you're doing it wrong. So a lot of people, they can understand their problem, but they keep doing it. Person who's like, I'm never gonna date a guy like this again. Next guy's just like that.

That's who they're attracted to, their body reacts to.

So, so here's the thought. First of all, the other problem in society is like, it's a rich person's game. Therapy and psychological healing because there's no insurance it covers. You have to have some discretionary income to do it. It's sad. But the bigger thing is this. The trauma didn't come in intellectually, right? It came in through your, like through feelings, through absorbing stuff, through, you know, experience experientially and you know, emotionally. So talk is not going to get it out because it's not in the talk part of your brain.

So what was the bodywork therapy that you did?

Yeah, so here's.

So what did you do?

So here's stuff that really worked for me. One is, it's called post induction therapy. Pia Melody, who is amazing, designed it.

Yeah, Drew's told me about this. Dr. Drew.

Oh, really?

Yeah, he gave me her name. They said you should go. Yes, I have my phone.

Did he say you should go to survivors at the Meadows?

No, he said just PM. Ellity.

Yeah, PMLity was great. She just developed a model. She was a nurse, just a genius. And developed, really, a great model of childhood.

You guys, we're gonna take a quick break. We're gonna come back here with Neil Strauss. I think we could talk for six hours if we didn't have to get into a sauna and do his podcast in a minute. But thank you, everyone, for supporting our sponsors. You know that I have every product, every service, everything I talked about, I've tried, I've used. I love it. Makes me feel so good. I know it'll make you feel good, too. And we'll be right back. Thanks for listening.

Back to you, Neil.

Go.

Okay.

I know it's all wound up before, I was like.

But you know what? At least we care about this stuff. We talk about.

No, we do. I'm so into it. Yeah. So what was the. Oh, no.

I was gonna say, here's the cheap solution. I really recommend this, and I think it's great. Is.

Yeah. The cheap solution where people are like, I don't even know what.

Right. So here's what you do. You get. And I literally did this. I got together. Like, I'm a new, you know, married now to the girl that I was dating before Ingrid. You know, we have a kid now. So I got like. And it's tough. Like, I think once you have a child, I learned how to have a relationships, and a relationship with children is a whole new world.

Oh, my God. Yeah.

How's that? Yeah. So I got together with, like, maybe five other guys who also were new dads, and I said, hey, let's just get a group together. We'll each chip in for the therapist. So instead of one person doing it, it's all five. The therapist comes in, we sit down with them, and in fact, today is when I do it. So at 6 today, we do this meeting, and it's great. So what you can do is get five people together. You all chip in on the therapist.

That's so smart. And let me tell You. I think that I was in a woman's group for six years. Same women, every week. You go and. To me. And I didn't understand at first. I thought, well, if I'm paying for therapy, I want attention on me. But you learn so much in a group setting because you bring yourself to the group people. How people see you, they reflect on you. I think that is brilliant. I've actually never heard of, like, you know, it's like the Uber for therapy or something. Not Uber. Lyft. We don't, like, talk about Uber. But yeah, really, like, that's really freaking smart.

Yeah.

Because I remember. Yeah. You each pay, like, 50 bucks or something. Or 20, you know.

Right. And here's why group therapy is better. Besides what you said. Yeah, besides what you said. First of all, there have been studies. And of course, like, I question all studies, but there have been studies that show group therapy is better, but people only quote the studies that prove their point.

Right.

So.

So true.

So. But one of the reasons I found it to be better, besides what you said, is that, like, if you have a therapist and the therapist says, hey, here's what's going on. You're doing your thing again. You can be like, no, you're wrong. But when the therapist says it and four other people in the room all say it, even if you're kind of like, all right, maybe they have a point.

Exactly.

Five people see the same thing, and you don't see it, they're likely. Right.

And they really know. And there's. And there's this sort of, like, there's a trust, obviously. And people think, my friends, they'd gossip to their wife. Now, there is a circle of trust in there. You hope that they're not going home and sharing.

There is. It's amazing. Yeah. I mean, you're choosing good people, and you're choosing people committed to the world.

I love that you're doing that. That is, like, the best idea. I could leave right now.

Yeah, good.

And I'd be done with this, but I'm not. So going back to, like, the game, like, I knew it.

I knew it. I knew. It's sex.

Dating.

Yeah. No, I get it.

I get podcast people.

Like, she's, like, going back to these questions I have to ask that I think people are interested in. No worries.

I'm back. I'm here with therapy, But I feel like. And I'm also talking, you know, I feel like you just help people a lot, But I want to go back to, like, if you could read, because the Game. You said you don't love all your books. Do you still love the game? How do you feel about that?

Yeah, I mean, any book I wrote, like, was true to who I was at the time.

Right, Exactly.

And I would never write it again.

Now it is. That's kind of how you do your therapy through these. In many ways it's cathartic. Right.

Really do. And it's almost like. Yeah, it's like those growth marks on that. Hopefully they're all growth marks on them on the wall. And you're like, oh, that's who I was back then. And that's why I really recommend, like, I love writing and I recommend writing because you see who you are at that point.

Exactly.

And I found people who are procrastinators and take too long to do a book or an album. If you take like five years, you're a new person by the end of it. So you start hating the beginning of it and then you've lost that chapter of your life.

Yeah, that's true. You just got to get through the procrastination part. Okay, I have a question for you though, because a lot of. A lot of my listeners, I get questions all the time and confidence from men. They're like, how do I get confidence to ask this person out? How do I get. How do I get men and women? But that book was kind of like getting men who maybe not wouldn't have been comfortable talking to women, sleeping with women. You didn't have the confidence, either of them. And there's a lot in there that's about playing a game. Like, I can do this. I can say these words. I can neg, you know, a woman. I can do these things. But what would you say now, the Neil today? What would your advice be to. To men that you're like, if you had a few tips for like, really building cultivating confidence.

Right.

What would you say?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, I think, like, if someone's just talking about confidence, I mean, there's a difference. There's two different things. There's effective courtship behavior, let's say.

And then there's confidence. And confidence goes back to the discussion we had previously. Right. Because for me, supercritical mom, everything I did was wrong. It was a mistake. Like, I'd literally be like packing a bag for college and like, what are you doing that wrong? Why are you putting that there? It's like a running stream of criticism. And so obviously that leads to me being in self doubt and questioning myself a lot. So the reason I Write books is because, well, there's no dialogue or conversation.

Right in your head. But you had to probably quiet that.

Yeah, but, but, but I can communicate without being interrupted or criticized. I can be criticized afterward, and that's fine. But at least I can get my thoughts out. So. But the point being. So the first. If someone was just talking about a confidence issue, like, I would really look at the roots and the cause of it and work on that in a way we just discussed. But we can talk about the fun stuff too.

Yeah, no, but, but that's okay, right? But even. What about then some of the things. Would you recommend anything. Is there anything in the game that you think. And I know that the game wasn't just about that, but people kind of took from there what they wanted to.

Right, right.

Which is great in many ways, I guess, for business, for you, like, for selling the book.

But like, to me, like, it's funny because, like, the stuff in the game, the stuff like, we learned and got into, like, so much it's like, so.

It'S really smart about human nature. So whether you're gonna do it or not, understanding it is really smart. And they're just simple, dumb things that guys do all the freaking time. And I don't think it's manipulated to say, hey, stop doing that dumb shit and do some smarter shit.

Like what?

I mean, I can just give you an example. Like, okay, here's like a simple thing. And there's so many things that are smarter to do, but there's so much stuff. There's so many things. I don't know why. I'm just thinking this one recently, it's not even the best, but just happened recently. So people who are traveling, this is for guys is to say, hey, you know, I'm new here. I don't know, around, you know, anything kind of cool going on, and people usually be nice and want to show them around. But what's interesting is that when you do that, it's not sexy.

Right. To be like, hey, can you tell me.

Right, right. Because you're like, are you good bands playing tonight? Right, right, right. You're. You're, you're like. You don't know what's going on. You're dependent for some reason. You might be friends, but it's. Yeah, exactly. So, like, I really. I always tell people, like, become an expert on where you're going. So it's so much cooler and so much. It's weird. You'll still meet people both ways, but this other way I'm going To recommend will lead to more chemistry and romance, which is like, research the place so you meet someone, and whatever town it is in New York or something you're visiting, you'll be like, have you heard of this place? Please don't tell when you're talking about, like, no, what's that? It's like. It's a speakeasy you know about. Please don't tell, by the way. Oh, it's amazing. So it's on St. Mark's it's a hot dog stand, but there's a phone booth there. If you pick up the phone booth and you have a reservation, the back of the phone booth will open to a secret speakeasy.

I don't know this.

You don't know that. And then. And the conversation would go like, wow, we're in New York. This is your city. I've never even been here before, and I know this, right?

And you're automatically like, wow, he knows.

And then. And then here's. Then the other thing is, then you don't invite them. Then you talk about some other stuff. You don't even invite them because they're ready for that. Right? So it's smarter. It's just sort of smarter to not be so needy and desperate. So you're there, you know the town, you're doing something cool. Then when you're done, you're like, hey, you know what? I enjoy this conversation. And if you want, we're gonna be. We're having a reservation on Thursday if you want to join us.

So you don't invite them at that moment, but you invite them after that moment. Like, in that moment, you just keep going. And they're waiting, going, is he gonna invite me? Is he gonna invite me? God. So you built that moment. That is. Yeah.

It's just sort of like, it's. It's not needy. It's cool. And then it's also like, if you're offering everything up right away, they're like, well, do they really like me? Or they just sort of like, right.

Okay, so it's still like a strategic. But come. Okay, so.

But it's also just. It's also just like, to me, human.

Nature kind of how we.

Right. It's just smarter. Like, obviously, there's a great connection. I mean, here's the other thing. Because I go back and forth on the game, I think all manipulation is wrong. All manipulation is wrong. But at the same time, there's someone who likes. You know, I meet so many people who got married, who have kids because of the Game. So was that manipulation wrong? On a spiritual, universal, cosmic level, truly. But in that life, and because there's. Whatever those children are born or there's, you know, that turn blossom to love. It's okay. So if you. Maybe you do this stuff stupidly, people are ready to say no to people very quickly because they get approached with a lot of things. And so maybe it helps you, like. Right.

No, I think those are good. You know, and you.

No, I think that's.

That is a good modification. So let's talk about sex.

Right, okay.

You know, sex podcast.

Let's do that. Yeah.

So when you were. Then you were getting late a lot at the game, you learn these tools.

Just a small thing. I was just thinking that recently, because someone was traveling and, like, and they were meeting somebody there, and I was like, don't glom onto somebody else's fun. You be the source of the fun.

That is so smart.

That's true.

It's not that hard. Like, you have to be like, but I'm not fun. No, it's quite. All those things that you can find something.

Like, I was doing an interview with Playboy radio, and the hosts were there, and then they had their, like, you know, models there, and the hosts were like, what are you guys doing this weekend? They're like, we're doing this. They're like, can we. Can we come? And they were like, I'm like, dude, no, you need to be doing something that's more fun than what they're doing. Right.

So women could do this, too. Do you think that women should be leading with this, too? Like, because then there is a certain. Like, men are the leaders, women are the ones who are. So do you think that if I said, hey, I've got this great thing going on that would still be attractive to a guy?

Yeah, 100%. I think everybody. Everybody feels that, like, even if their life is awesome, there's something other stuff going on that could be more amazing and more fun. Yeah, right, Exactly.

Let's just prey on everyone's fomo, right? So sex, then. So you started getting laid and having sex. So how do you think that your sex life has changed since?

And by the way, and I do want to say this, which is, I think a lot of the gender stuff is cultural, not biological. We're talking about these differences. Right? So there are cultural things that are ingrained, and obviously a lot of your listeners are beyond that stuff. So just when I'm talking about men, it's sort of like an average of. This is kind of the Way people.

Masculine energy. The truth. You guys should all read his book, the Truth. Neil Strauss, you really get into it when you spent five years going through this process, writing the book and the whole journey. I mean, I guess you're still on the journey, right? We're on the journey. But would you say that there's been stuff that you've learned also? I know it's more about dating, the game and that, but the sex, like, you also went through, you know.

Oh, yeah, I did. No, I trained, like, I went like this. Sexual training.

Tell me, what was the most useful stuff that you've learned about sex right now? That you're like, a wise guru now, of all things.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, the greatest thing. And again, like, I went to all these things, but, like, obviously, as everyone knows, it's not like, to me, it's more. It's not all the techniques.

No, right. It wasn't like this great. Unless you have one.

Yeah. Like, oh, what are the things I learned? Or whatever? Like, I think, like, tons of stuff. All kinds of, like, spots and sensitive areas inside that, you know, that I hadn't, like, really explored enough with her yet, even though I kind of knew the main ones. There are, like, some sub spots. And also, you know, just a lot more about, like, she has this great thing where you're sort of like, you know, blindfolded and playing with all five senses, like, doing some stuff that's just for taste and some stuff just for auditory and just sort of having this, you know, multisensory, like, just enjoyable experience. We do that sometimes. And.

Just technique wise. Yeah. I think a lot of, like, there's so many amazing strokes to be learned and done.

Right.

I don't believe. Amazing. Yeah. So, like, really learning, like, you know, vaginal massage, like, thick massage, like, just learning, like, all these things.

I think a vocal mapping by a friend who does sexological bodywork. Like, there's all these areas inside of us. Dolly, who was on my show recently, she's a sexological body worker, somatica therapist. It's like, I didn't even talk about this on my show, but she literally went in there, like, and she was like, how does that feel? How does that feel? Like there's all these areas inside of us that I think that we. And men. I always assume that men, first of all, like, knew their penises. And, like, they know their penises. They look at it all the time. And the truth is that there's a lot that. That men don't know. They know how to like, do one stroke and get those off. And how we do it is different.

Than how we want it done.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So it's communication.

Right. And that. Yeah. And that was a. That was a third. Yeah. So one was just like. There's so many amazing strokes. Like, literally, I'll be doing a bit like, okay, it's time for this little violin thing. And then, like, the bird in the nest. And then, like the. You know, and then whatever. Then the. Like. But they're so. They're like just like. And also, when you're with somebody who's, like, great at just that massage part of it, it's like the greatest experience.

Right. It's so important.

So then the other thing was communication. Like. And I think probably you talk about it. I'm sure one of your show talks about it.

Oh, yeah.

I think people still don't do it. Right.

They don't know how to communicate at all. Yeah, no, they don't even. Well, that's my show. A lot of this is that people just. Yeah. There's so much shame around it. Then there's a problem with sex. And they've never even talked about sex. They don't. They're not sure exactly what to be doing. And how do you. How do you even start the conversation?

Or it's, like, done, like, oh. Or you say it in some. And also finding the way to say it where somebody doesn't feel criticized, that's a thing.

Learning how to communicate.

Right.

Like, that is just a whole nother thing that you could dive into, too. Like, there are the right ways to do it and wrong ways to do it.

Right.

But the truth came out two years ago.

Right.

Okay. So what about. Where are you at now? How is it you have a child? Married with child, and I'm working on.

Another book that I can't say. But it's crazy because it's. Because it's like.

It's the same kind of thing, though. Like, wherever you're at now, 100 different. Okay.

But it's the craziest, like, the most intense book I've ever done in my life.

Oh, my God. The last one was really intense.

Yeah. This one's, like, unbelievable.

Okay. And you can't tell me. Okay. So then I'm not even.

And all the books rise out of just things not really happening in my life. And I say if I just do a book, then I can dedicate myself, like, full time to it.

Right. And that's what you're doing now? You're writing.

Yeah, but it'll be outdone by the end of the year.

Oh, so I don't have to wait that long.

Yeah.

But it's like, let me know.

Yeah, I'll let you know.

So in the truth, like, I think that that's sort of a guidebook. Right. You're thinking it would be advice for people. Right, to learn? I mean.

Yeah. I mean, I think everything is. I think, like Carl Rogers said, like, that personal is the universal.

Yeah.

So I feel like if I just tell my story as, like, you know, as vulnerably as I can, but along the way of that story, a road. Provide a roadmap for others to follow. That's kind of where it's at.

What have you heard? What's been the feedback, like, to how people really.

Oh, yeah, like, the best feedback. The best feedback to me is someone's like, I read that book. Like, I laughed a lot. Like, it was funny. It was nuts. It reflected a lot of my thoughts. But along the way, I realized, oh, I was raised by.

Especially the idea of enmeshment. I don't know if you ever discussed on the show.

Yes, a little bit.

But so realizing, oh, I was raised like this, and that's why I choose these kinds of people in relationships. And when light bulbs are going off in people's heads, that's the goal.

I feel like that the great thing about the book and about therapy and all this stuff is that we could save so much time. Like, we were saying at the beginning of the show that we kind of got to go through all these things to get to a certain place, but with these things of childhood issues and figuring this stuff out, you know, I'm so grateful that I started therapy at, like, 20. I kind of had to because my dad died and I got into that. But I really am just, like, I'm glad I started on the path when I did because I feel like a lot of our relationship issues, and I learned this at a younger age. But, like, it's when I would break up with someone when I was really younger, I'd be like, oh, because he's an alcoholic, or he's this. Or we don't like the same music or whatever you think when you're a kid, when you're younger dating. But now I realize it was never about the other person. It was always about where I was at in my life. And then I kept dating, like, a series of the same kind of people. And then you finally realize that it's really not about them, it's about me. Getting healthy and then taking time off from dating and figuring that out. And I think that we could take away from that. And what you show in the book too is that we should all kind of take that time. It's hard to be alone too. I think a lot of times you're like, well, I want to keep dating. There's all these other people to date. But once you can really pull back and go deep and do the work, then you'll be able to come out of it and pick much healthier partners, right?

And there's a. One of the therapists told me really good line, which is like, until you can be alone without loneliness, you're not ready for a relationship. But back to the point about what you were saying is like this. It is efficient because it's like a ticking time bomb. Whether it's going to. You're going to try to get someone in your career, but you're going to self sabotage it because this shit's going to fuck you up or it's going to sabotage your relationship. So they're literally like years people waste. They do hurtful relationships and in like trying to build a career when they're just standing in their own way. So if you just clear this shit now, then you have a clear path to like love or connection or.

And it's the most important work. I mean, I know we really got into it here, but I have to say there's.

Let me ask you this though. Like, I know that I like that you're turning the conversation to sex and stuff and.

No, it's okay.

I seriously want to ask you.

3,000 episodes.

I seriously want to ask you this. And your listeners tweet. They can tweet you, right?

Tweet me.

So do you feel, Are you like, fascinated to talk about sex or do you feel like, oh, the podcast is this. So let's make sure we hit that note.

I don't know. I was thinking, I was actually running last night. I was listening to like few truth barrels. I've been like prepping for this and thinking about it. And I was like thinking about the game, which I read, you know, when it came out, I was thinking about you. I was like, what was sex like from them? Was he just like getting the numbers and banging these chicks and like, what.

Was it good for you? No, because of course. No, like, even at the same point you're like, of course if somebody has a great experience with you, you get to have more great experiences with them and they're gonna get better. So of Course that's part of it. And I think a lot of, a lot of, again, I talk about guys because that's the people who come to me and who I like work with the most. But like a lot of guys who are virgins and like, you know, 30 or something, it's not like people aren't attracted to them. They become too scared to even have sex or they're gonna do it wrong and do it badly. And then that just the older they get, the less.

Right. So what would you tell. I have a lot of virgins. You're listening. What would you tell them now?

The older any virgin, like, well, the older Virginia. Well, first of all, the first thing I would say is like there are these concepts that don't exist. There's no such thing in the world as virginity. Like, there's no like universal thing of virgin. It's just a weird fake fucking concept, right? It's totally fake. It doesn't mean like, it's same with monogamy and non monogamy, by the way. Fake, artificial, right? Yeah, because I did so. But they're fake, artificial distinctions created by society. Virgin, non virgin, it fucking means nothing. You stick it in there versus there, it's stuck in there versus there. Like fucking means nothing. The first thing I would say is like, just let go of that shit because it's hanging over your head and hurting you. So like let go of the conflict.

But they're not gonna let go of like a 25 year old virgin. He's like, all his friends are getting laid. He's like, I don't care what you call it. I haven't had.

The question is, what do you do for a 25 year old doesn't have any sexual experience or has less sexuality. Right, Right. So, but I, but I get that. But the first thing is like, it just doesn't help to define yourself that way or to think of that as a real thing because it's not easy on out. Right? But as far as practical advice goes, like, here's the deal, I think you're.

So down to the practical and I love you. You're so up here and I'm there with you. I go with you and I get it. Like, I know where you're at, I'll go both places.

But here's the thing, here's why I'm at that place. So the game stuff, there's behavior stuff and there's belief stuff, right? So we can talk about the behavior stuff is really easy shit to fix. If I say, hey, if you're walking up to someone, you walk straight up and you stand too close to them, they're gonna be uncomfortable. So it's nicer if you're talking an angle and you kind of look over your shoulder. And I feel like an everyone can change that right away, but it's the belief stuff that fuels all this shit, right? So I'm into the belief stuff because you change the beliefs, all the behaviors change. So back to the person who's like a, you know, a virgin, has very little sexual experience over, like, at an age when they feel like they should have more, obviously, there's a belief issue at hand. Right, right. There's a belief issue behind that. So I could say, and again, like, I do think you could learn this stuff. I would say, like, take all the advice we've been giving this whole thing and find out what it is that's making you feel uncomfortable.

Like, really go deep. Think about, like, what's it really about? Don't numb it. Like, don't. Like, really, like, where did it start? Where did it come from?

Yeah, I would just say heal that thing separate from the sex and the other stuff will start happening.

It's true.

Same with people with relationship stuff. I'm like, you want to find a better relationship? Then work on yourself to be a better person and more emotionally mature and you'll meet more emotionally mature people.

Right? I mean, because you also. That's a good point, because you also learn. Like, I'm grateful for all the relationships I was in. I learned a lot from that and studying it, but it was really the work I did outside of it.

You have to grow.

Yeah, everyone has to.

So really, like, if you want it. So the practical side is this is like, make a fucking game plan for yourself about how you're going to do this stuff that involves experiential shit. Not just, I'm going to read a bunch of books and listen to a bunch of podcasts.

Yeah, you have to do. You have to get out there and get the experience. And I like what you said for you guys, the men's group, getting together, getting a therapist. But what if you're, like, younger, don't have resources? You know what I'm saying? Like, for like, a kid who's like, I don't have therapy, how else could you do it besides reading books? I guess I was lucky. I could go to therapy.

Here's the thing. Here's the. Then get a mentor. Everybody, including myself. You can learn everything for free. If you find someone who's a Little bit better at it than yourself.

Right, right.

And I like finding a couple different mentors because it's good to get different kinds of advice and not. Just because something worked for one person doesn't mean it works for everybody.

True.

That's good. So just find someone who's a little better at you and start having those discussions or get a group of friends together to kind of talk about this stuff or start.

Don't do it as naturally. Now you're a manager, 40s. Like, now you have these group of men. But were you talking about your feelings and emotions 10 years ago even?

I mean, I. We were like in the game stuff. We were kind of like doing that stuff. Like, I think that the purpose having it still sounded. Seemed like masculine work. This is about, you know, sex. So we're like doing it, but we're really working on all these other parts of ourselves at the same time.

Is there any advice that you wish you could undo that you learned then that you're like, oh God, I wish like anything, like, I don't know, even sex or.

No, because it's all like part of the journey. Right.

Not that you can undo, but that you would like to kind of correct. If anyone reads it, let's say you're like, oh, please don't do that.

I don't know. Because I get. I think everyone's like, keel will make their own decision. I don't know. I haven't read it. So I don't know what's. Since then. So I don't know.

You haven't read it since then?

What's in there. But I don't think the game's like an avid. It's not a how to or an advertisement.

So is it still as people still buying it as pop?

I always refer to it, yeah, but I don't think. But even the book itself is not advocacy or how to. It's just like this was my experience.

It's a great story.

This stuff I learned. And this is why, like, I left it. Right. So it's not even an advocacy book. Like, but I think you as a writer, it's like, well, you present everything and don't hold it back and let people make up their own mind.

Right, Right.

And I think like I meet a lot of people in like different communities who maybe they started with the game and then doing the game and then rejected it, but it led them into a. Well, that's why, into a self improvement place or spiritual place or.

A lot of those guys that I initially talked to, they Were kind of like, yeah, but they're more like the spiritual. They were kind of had it based in more of a spiritual realm than just going out and, like, so. Right. I think it did launch careers. Maybe the people I interviewed early on.

And I'm sure. And I'm sure, like, other people went down the dark side and turned into bigger douchebags than they already were.

Exactly. They've shifted now. They shifted now. So how is it being a father, Mary?

Oh, yeah. I don't want to be like, yeah, that's the best. Here's what's great about it. There's so many things that are great about it. But on the top of what we're talking about is all. All the stuff I learned about trauma and how that's created and all the wounds we get from growing up. Like, have I made me, like, such a better dad and just conscious of little stuff? Just the littlest things. I'll give you a couple, like, examples. One is, like, it's so fun, like, just doing it right as a parent when you didn't have it done right or doing it the best you can. I'm making mistakes.

The best you can. The best you can.

Nobody's perfect.

You're always gonna.

Yeah, they're gonna have issues.

If they don't have issues with you, then they're not gonna have the human experience. Right. But you're doing your best.

Right. But by the way, anyone says they. When people. If you think your parents were perfect or you think, like, you had an idyllic childhood, there's signs that there's. When someone says that, there's a sign, there's some real shit going on.

Exactly. Not of a perfect childhood. Right. I'm the same. Break it down.

So. But like, little things. When. If he's sad, I would never, like, even though it was a bit like, don't be sad. Cheer up. And now, I would never deny an emotion someone's having. So I'm like, oh, you're sad. What's going on? Oh, yeah, I understand. Or you're angry because you weren't able to play with that knife. I'm sure. I understand that you're angry because you couldn't play with that knife. Right. So I'll kind of affirm his emotions versus denying them. Or here's another thing. I became a writer because I wanted to just not go to an office, among other things. So I love working, just working in my home. But I realized that if I'm in my home working, and my child, who wants to Play. And I'm like, no, I'm working. They're too young to understand that concept. It's a rejection of them. You're making something more important than them. So I got like a place outside my house to work. So when I'm home, I'm 100% with the child. When I'm not, I'm not.

That's great.

Little things like that.

Because he's two, right?

Yeah, two and a half, Right?

Right. Okay.

Yeah. Here are the other other things. Like understanding that they don't. They're not. They don't have a prefrontal cortex yet. They're not. So when you're take tell trying I. It kills me. I see. You see so much bad parents in the playground. Like, I don't know what to do if I. If people have suggestions, tweets me or tweet Emily. Like, I just. There's so much bad parenting. I see like parents just fucking up their child and saying, don't do that, don't do that. Stop that you're hurting. That all their. And these. They don't, they don't have the right of a child is to be spontaneous. So if you don't, if you want them to be quiet in a restaurant, don't take them to the fucking restaurant, right? Don't take the restaurant. Either they'll be loud in the restaurant or don't take them to the restaurant. But don't try to over control them, you know, or keep them from running around or yelling and screaming. That's what they do. That's what they do. And let them have their. It's the one time in life where you can be totally spot free and.

Spontaneous on the shoulder. And especially like in Malibu, I would think that like you, I don't know.

You probably see everything when someone's like, stop. That you're disturbing other people. Like, no fucking let them run around. It's like the joy and happiness of a child is not disturbing. I know. Maybe I should, right?

I don't know. I feel like you think you should.

Yeah, I would love to if I could find a way to do it that would really reach the people who are controlling always need to be right. You know, not letting the child have its emotional life, you know, putting their own expectations and needs. Here's another big, big thing people do. The job of the parent is to take care of the needs of the child. Right? Very simple. But some parents think they're doing that, but the child's really taking care of their needs, right? They. They're sad. They hug the. Hold the child. Right. They're anxious. They don't let the child do stuff to manage their own anxiety. So a lot of parents get their needs met through the child.

Right. And that was your experience?

That was my experience with my mom.

Your mom, yeah.

Yeah.

So people, it's all about self awareness. That's what we're talking about today. This was really. I mean, I love where we went here.

It's okay.

We didn't talk about blow jobs.

Right.

We don't know if talk about blow jobs. We do sometimes, but we don't need to.

Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I think I can speak for your audience when they want to hear what you're interested in.

They do, and I'm really interested.

And as you change, they want to go with you.

So that's what. That's when you said, what's going on with me? Which we will. So, Neil, is a podcast called the Truth Barrel, right? That Truth Barrel was there. There was a colon. It's a Truth barrel, right?

I don't think it's a colon.

No, that was your book. It was like a truth. What was it? An uncomfortable book. So we're talking about his book, the Truth and Uncomfortable Book about relationships. And the Truth Barrel is your podcast with Gabby Reese, which I'm actually gonna go do. We're gonna get to a sauna for an hour and a half.

Right. That sauna is the Truth barrel because it's 220 degrees. You can't lie when you're just fighting for your life.

We can talk about that. How I actually am fascinated by everything that you're saying. And I know, I think my listeners are coming along for me on the journey because I have been opening up. I've been trained as Somatica sex therapist lately. I'm doing more body work. I was doing not hands on stuff. It's more of. It's called Somatica Sex therapy. It's more of a speaking touch, but over clothes. I'm not. I learned it more to help my listeners. But anyway, I am opening up more to the stuff on the show and everyone's really appreciating it. So.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think it's. Yeah. But here's the thing, and I think this goes for you and everybody else listening is like, you just have to go on your own journey. And if like all your audience knows of you is what you've done before, they don't know what you're capable of, what you're doing. So if you just keep giving them that thing they want, you're gonna keep doing what you've done before, whereas just go on your journey and you'll lose. Some new ones will come in, but, like, you can't. People get frozen in their first moment of popularity. That's a tragedy.

Yeah, I think that's a good point. Right? I'm not frozen.

No, no, no, you're clearly not. Because look at us. We did, we didn't. I know.

I love it. This was great. Neil. Neil Strauss. Okay, everyone can find you Neil Strauss dot com.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the best way. Twitter. What's the best way? You like, tweets?

Yeah, like whatever you like. Just Google me, right?

Google them. And this will all be on the website, right@sexhemily.com all right, this was awesome. Thank you, Neil, for being here. Thank you, my amazing team. Thanks everyone for listening. Was it good for you? Email me Feedback.

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