Threesomes, Kink, and Opening Up with #OPEN

Thanks for listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and on today's show, I'm talking about open relationships, threesomes, and how to just get into that world if you've never experienced it before. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

I had never gone down on a girl before, so I like didn't know what to do, but it was a lot.

Seeing your partner having pleasure or being really happy, and it's the opposite of jealousy. So, you know, rather than feeling this jealousy of feeling this intense pleasure at seeing, you know, somebody you love experience pleasure has been really fun to explore, and it's something that my husband and I have really enjoyed exploring, um, that really kind of drives our own sex life.

So some people are just like, oh God, I'd be too jealous, or I was so jealous. I never get to the compersion point of just like, I'm compassionately seeing pleasure in my partner. Like, it actually gets me off to see my partner get off.

She's a teenager and she's like afraid to hook up with her first girl, and her friend who's straight is like, do what you do yourself but flip it upside down. And like I was thinking about that. I was like, is that what I'm supposed to do?

Look into his eyes.

They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions. Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day. You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily, and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate The conversation around sex. Today I'm talking to Miley Manligus from Hashtag Open. It's a new dating app that's designed for modern relationships. And I first heard about it from a friend last year, and she was always looking for a dating app that is more tailored towards people who want something more alternative. She's attracted to different kinds of people, and she's not looking for anything that's like straight up monogamous. So this app, it's super unique. And really, whatever you're looking for, they have your options. They have like poly and threesomes, and you can just have someone just for sexting. Even monogamy is cool too. Any sexual orientation and any gender. In fact, what I found out is a lot of their users on #open are looking for friendship, for community. That's the other really cool thing. They have a really strong, discreet community. So it's just a cool, fresh look at relationships, and it was really fun to find out more about it. Miley shares a lot. I mean, she talks about her experience, like how she opened up her relationship. And she also talks about how giving birth, I haven't heard this before in this way, it truly empowered her to embrace her sexuality more than she ever had before. She's a super cool woman. I so enjoyed talking to her. And I think you're really gonna love her perspective. Oh, but first I talked to our new content coordinator, Amanda, about her first experience being a unicorn, and that's slang for being a third in a threesome to a couple. So we really get into it, like how she felt going into it and what she learned from that experience, how it helped her get over a relationship. I mean, talk about getting to know your team on the job. Amanda did not hold back. It's Alternative August. It's gonna be anal, it's gonna be alternative relationships all month long. So Amanda, who works with me, just dropped something on me and I'm like, well, we just gotta talk about it on the show. So tell me, Amanda, tell me about your relationship.

Yeah, so I actually met my partner, my boyfriend, on an alternative dating app called Feeld, which is super similar to Open. But I had initially gone on there after a really bad breakup and I was like, I don't wanna date any men. I don't want to date any men. I just want to like either date women or have threesomes. And that was, that was why I used the app.

Wow.

And so it was great for those purposes for a while. And then I remember seeing this guy on the app and we started talking and we didn't talk about anything sexual. We talked about this stuff that I was writing and his music. And then it was around the holidays. So the conversation kind of petered out as we were both like busy and traveling. And then about a month later, I met him. We, I guess we reconnected on a different dating app. We reconnected on Hinge. And I didn't recognize him. But on our first date, he brought up, you know, this isn't the first app we've matched on. And I was like, do we match on Bumble? Or what? And he's like, no, Field. And my portfolio or my profile on Field was scandalous. So now I'm like, this guy is just dating me because he thinks I'm sexual.

Like, that's all he wants.

But it turned out to be like, we're still dating. And like, one of our— the best— I think it's been like a year and a half later. And one of the best things about our relationship is like the honesty and the communication and like the sexual sync— synchronicity. I don't know if that's the word, but like compatibility. And I think that is because we like like met on this app originally that was for like really open-minded progressive people.

Wow, Amanda, that's so— so go back to your scandalous profile. So you go through a bad breakup and you're like, no men, either I want to be with a woman or a man and a woman. So how did that go? Did you have some experiences? I did.

I had my first ever threesome as the third, and it was like breakup antidote. Seriously, I was in such an emotional slump. And it's like that scene in 500 Days of Summer after Nick has sex with Summer for the first time and he's dancing through the streets. I was dancing through the streets of LA. Wow.

So was it a couple that you met? Did you— so you met them on an app. And then what happens? And then you just go to their house or how does that happen?

This was pre-COVID, so we went to a concert together as our first date as kind of like a chemistry test. And I remember there was like a moment— I had never done anything like this before, so I was so nervous. And I remember there was a moment where we were like watching the band play, and the girl held my hand as the guy like put his hands on both of our backs. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna like—

this is fun. It only took a hand. Two hands, two hands on deck. You're like, I'm in. Wow. And you were attracted to them right away?

Yeah, I thought they— yeah, I really liked them. I thought they were like super in love, which was also important to me because I didn't want to like get in anything that caused a lot of drama. But they had previously— this was their first threesome, but they had previously like swung before. Okay, they were kind of comfortable with it and like really made me comfortable with the whole thing too.

Wow. And then what can you— can I ask like what happened? And then you go back to their house that night, or was it just the next time, actually.

So like, that was kind of like fun though, because I had all these like, oh, butterflies, like, do they like me type of thing. And then they texted me the next morning. It was like when you're getting to know a guy and they text you, they're like, oh, cute. Do you want to like meet up this weekend? Like, you want to come over? And yeah.

And then you went over there and it was just like hot and fun.

And yeah, I remember like, because I had no idea what to expect.

I had—

I didn't have any resources, like.

Right. So walk me through it. Like, what happened?

So I go over there and I bring a bottle of wine and like, I didn't think I was going to have sex with him that night. I kind of like was in my head like, okay, this is just like a date number 2. Like, maybe we're just going to like start to get to know each other a little bit more. But on that second date, I brought over a bottle of wine and the first kind of hour and a half, we just like drank a bottle of wine and talked with each other and got to know each other. And then like, after that, at one point, the guy said, so does anybody want to make out?

And that's a good icebreaker.

Yeah, dialed up a little bit there. It was honestly like a lot less awkward than I thought it was going to be. Because like, we kind of owned that it was going to be awkward. And like, when it did get awkward, we just like laughed and like, was like, okay, wait, you go there. You go there. And I didn't think it was, I honestly didn't think it was gonna escalate, but I just kept saying like, well, I'm already here. I'm already here.

Yeah, might as well. Yeah, it's true. 'Cause I've had threesomes and you think they're gonna be awkward. I mean, I guess they can be awkward, but it just sort of works. You just sort of go into a flow. You know what I mean? Like you're not, it can be, don't get me wrong. It's not like every, but if you're all on the same page about what you want and you've cleared boundaries and stuff, it's just like, It's just, you just sort of figure it out together, right? You make sure everyone wants everyone to feel pleasure and you've probably, you know, consented things beforehand. Can I ask you more questions on it? I don't know if it's okay to ask. Great, okay. So then your makeout, your makeout with a boyfriend and girlfriend. So then I'm assuming sex happened.

Yeah, so we were in their living room when like the making out started to happen. And then the guy was like, I forget who initiated, but they were like, should we go in the bedroom? 'Cause like we were taking off clothes. And that's when I was like, okay, this is gonna happen. Like, if I go in that bedroom, it's on. And I had never gone down on a girl before, so I like didn't know what to do. But it was a lot like easier and more fun than I like thought it was going to be. And it had always been something I'd wanted to do, so it was like an opportunity I wanted to seize. I would say that like everyone was really focused on making sure the other person like felt good, which I think was like the key to it being successful.

Yes.

Nobody like had a huge ego about it. And they were very much so like prioritized on me, which made me feel special. And which is why I was like, this was breakup antidote.

Yes, you got double, double pleasure. It's true. Because the first time I remember I went down, I think it was in a threesome. And it is true. First, you're like, wait, and you're like, oh, I know this. It's like riding a bike. You're like, I have one. I know how this works. I know what I would want, like game time. Like, it's actually less intimidating maybe than the first time you give a blowjob if you don't have a penis.

Honestly, yeah.

You're like, oh yeah, I got this. Yeah, it's different with every woman, obviously, but then I know what to, to, what to look for. And you just sort of like riding a bike, riding a vulva. Okay, so that, that sounds like such a good experience. Did you ever see them again, or was it—

Yeah, I did. We kept it, we kept it going for a little while. They were like my couple friends and I would just go over there and hang out for a few hours and then go home. That was one thing I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure if I would want to stay the night or not, or if they would want me to stay the night or not. But I did like, it was fun to just like go home and like sleep in my own bed and like carry that memory with me. And the only reason it stopped honestly was because I got into a relationship and like my boyfriend and I have talked about adding that like to our lives. But we've, we've only been dating for a year and a half. So we're still, you know, trying to figure out our rhythm. But that's why when she mentioned like the sexting threesome on the previous segment, I thought that was a really like smart idea to kind of like practice and see how it does like affect your relationship.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great— because, you know, you guys, you're always asking me like, what do I do to open it up? Or how do I get my partner, you know, or someone called in the other night and they're like, well, "Partner wants a threesome, you know, I do too, but do you think it's safe?" I think that was maybe last week. She's like, "Do you think it's safe? Do you think it's okay? We both want it." And I said, "Well, there's certain boxes to check to have a threesome." I don't tell everyone to go out and have a threesome, but I kind of check like, have you already discussed what it would look like? What kind of partner you bring in? Have you talked about rules and boundaries? You know, and I always say like dirty talk or, you know, roleplay the threesome, but the idea of sexting with someone and seeing how your partner reacts, reading The sex, you know, is another step. 'Cause I never want people to go out there and have it be, our sex life's bad, we're gonna have a threesome. Like go right from zero to threesome, you know? Like that could be a disaster for many couples. But I think it's interesting when you can kind of, and you saw this with that couple, like they were into it, didn't, and it might've made their relationship stronger.

Yeah, I thought that was, that was honestly very inspirational to me and started making me look at how you define a relationship being different. 'Cause that wasn't the first couple I had talked to who had done it. There are so many couples on field who have kind of redefined the rules of their relationships. And I really think it's something that a couple can negotiate, like what that looks like. When me and my boyfriend were getting together, it was a conversation that we had very early on. Like, I'm not asking to start doing this now, but are you open to the idea of renegotiating the rules of our relationship every now and then? Like, basically, we're going to grow and we're going to change.

Of course. Did he say, see, these are the conversations, Amanda, that's so great. I mean, these are the kind of conversations I think it's important to have with your partner that, you know, this could be changing, like just like a business agreement. Like, are we gonna renegotiate our consulting contract? Are we gonna renegotiate our business contract or our relationship? And what a great thing to even put in the calendar and be like, it's been a year, like, let's talk about it. How's it going? And I think rather than going down a road where it just gets someone's, you know, you're really dissatisfied and someone wants something that the other one doesn't. I mean, I think all couples, you know, not just if you're in in a non-monogamous relationship, but even in monogamous relationships, I've thought, ah, it's like a business, right? You're making these commitments for life and then you guys call in the show and you're like, oh, my partner doesn't want the things I want and how do we negotiate it? But if you negotiate it upfront and you keep revisiting that contract every year, every few months, you know, I think that's how you grow. And even Miley, our guest from #Open was saying she's married, 2 kids in her 20s and was like, really? You know, is this all there is? And then, you know, then it became really hot to have a third person in the relationship, which, again, not for everybody. We're just giving you options in Alternative August. Don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with more about Amanda's threesome experience. So we were talking about what an interesting show because we had Miley on from #Open talking about you know, open relationships and how to find a third. And then Amanda sharing with us about her first— well, I don't know if it was your first threesome experience, but about the fears that we have about opening up a relationship or even around sex, like it's going to be awkward, it's going to be uncomfortable. So then I think so much of what holds us back— there's a lot of things that hold us back, but one of the reasons why I think we don't actually go after what we want sexually or try new things is because we're so afraid something's going to happen. It's going to be messy, it's going to be loud, we're going to do something awkward or weird. And I just think like, isn't that worth a risk? And also, so what? Like sex is messy and weird and awkward and you make noises and you squirt. I don't know if it's maturity or just learning to have more confidence. When you're with a partner who's cool, you just don't think about those things. You get back to sex. You just, okay, you can laugh for a moment, but I think it's so worth it because people go through life without taking risks, you know? Like, I mean, Amanda, by going on this app and finding a third person, it sounds like you learned a lot about yourself too, right?

Yeah, I really did. I mean, that was kind of how I, I had always kind of known that I identified as a queer, bi, pansexual person, but that was the tipping point into that world, which really opened up my community. And I met more than just the couple there. I met my now partner there. I met one of my really good friends there who opened a lot of doors for me in my writing career. Connected me to a lot of different places. And we started out going on a date and then like nothing ever like really happened. But she's still one of my like, best friends. And I just think like, breakups are this time of like healing and growth and rediscovering yourself. And that means like rediscovering yourself sexually too. And you have to like really learn who you are without that other person intimately. And take ownership of your sexuality again.

Yeah, it really is an interesting time when you break up with someone that there's so many different paths you could take. I mean, it's okay to feel the feels and to miss your partner and to be home and sad and crying. I mean, I think it's good to go through that process, right, of kind of mourning the relationship. But then I think it's also important to look at, you know, I always love journaling after a relationship or just thinking about, okay, what worked? What was my part in it? Because sometimes we get so angry at the partner that we don't take any responsibility. You obviously broke up for a reason, but you were 50% of the relationship. So you do some of that work. Like, who would I want to be in my next relationship? You know, what do I want? And then also, yeah, sexually, let's talk about that part too. It's like, I don't know. I mean, I think so much about learning who you are as a sexual being definitely comes through masturbation.

You know that.

I think that we all have to explore our bodies because you're going to find so much that you don't find with a partner. But also, if you're safe and consensual, to go out and learn who you are with someone else. So you didn't know that you'd be— you thought you had a hunch you might be into women, but turns out you were. But if you weren't, that's another story. That's another road. But now you're with a man, Amanda, but you said you haven't been with a woman since then. But do you think about it? Do you fantasize about it?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's a topic of our relationship because he's certainly down to have a threesome. And like, I'm like the one kind of pushing the gas on it. So yeah, it's like, luckily he knows, like, One of the first times he like figured it out was I was taking him to my friend's birthday party and it was a friend who was a girlfriend who I used to date. And so I was like, oh, we're going to my friend's birthday party. By the way, we used to date. And he was like, wait, wait, what? And like, I don't think it was really that much of a surprise to him.

Right.

But he knows and he's like, I think he thinks it's cool and he's game to explore it with me, which is also why I'm glad we met on field. 'Cause I don't know if— You might not have brought it up.

You might've thought that he would judge you, but the fact that he saw you on the app was such an open invitation to talk about it. So what did you learn about yourself by being with a woman sexually, like your orgasm and your pleasure? Was there anything that, that you learned from that experience?

Yes, I learned like to trust my instincts more because I think with guys, like ironically, I knew more what to do with a penis than I did with a vulva. There's this scene in the movie Booksmart where the one girl is She's a teenager and she's like afraid to hook up with her first girl. And her friend who's straight is like, do what you do yourself, but flip it upside down. And like, I was thinking about that. I was like, is that what I'm supposed to do? But there was also like a softness to hooking up with her and like a gentleness that I think was like absent in my interactions with men. And I really took that away too, like sort of appreciation porn form and the woman form and opened my world a little bit.

Yeah, I mean, I would say that opened your world. I think that is such a great story. I think, I think that a lot of us are afraid to kind of explore our fantasies or to really go there. And I'm not saying it's right, but you can even do this if you're in a committed relationship, but just start talking about it. That's what we're about. Communication is a lubrication. I always say that. So maybe I want people to try the app now. They can try #open. Any dating apps? And the truth is, you guys, there are— the dating apps right now are kind of exploding. It's a good time. It's a good time to talk about sex. It's a good time to be on a dating app. But also what I like about dating right now is that there's more courtship right now, that we're not necessarily just like running out and sleeping with people. Thanks, Amanda. Coming up, I talk to Miley Manligus from Hashtag Open about open relationships and how the app is revolutionizing online dating in 2020. All right, I'm really excited for my guest. And here's the thing, okay, what I feel is I, you know what I love about this show? I love trends. You know, there's some weeks where there's certain calls that come in. People wanna know if they should break up with someone. And sometimes it's like all oral all week long. Like, how am I better at oral? And I feel what's perfect, you didn't even know probably that it was Alternative August. And what we do in August, some people call it Anal August in the sex community. I like to say it's alternative. And what we do this month is, you know, we talk about alternative relationships. If you've been wanting to practice something, you know, something other than monogamy, which let's be honest, that's like really the only like socially acceptable way, but you know, there's other options. In fact, there's a study I was just reading today in the New York Times that 1 out of 5 people have experimented in a relationship other than monogamy. So they're monogamous, but they have experimented otherwise. So it could be like swinging, it could be, you know, an open relationship. So what happened this week was you called in several people just, I think in the last two, last day and Thursday about how do we find a third in the relationship? We're thinking of opening it up, which makes sense to me. So I'm very excited to welcome my guest. We've got Miley Menlingus on the show, and she's the director of product for an app that we've talked about. And I was like, oh, you'll come talk about it on the show? It's called #Open. Welcome to the show, Miley.

Hi, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

I know, I have so many questions for you. So look, I guess where we could start is how did you get involved with this app, #Open, which again, you guys, I've signed up for it. It's a really interesting take on dating apps. So tell me about you and your history.

I, I love that you are on the app because actually how I got started working for Hashtag Open is that I was an app user first. So I'm newer, I consider myself newer to exploring non-monogamy with my, my partner, my husband, who we've been together for 8 years. We've been married just about 5, and about a year and a half ago we decided we were ready to try something new. And funny, you were saying people are asking about threesomes because That's really where we got started. We were like looking specifically for threesomes. We were on a couple other apps. And I, you know, started following the hashtags on Instagram of like, you know, non-monogamy. And I started seeing posts for hashtag open and they started to kind of catch my eye. And I think after I saw maybe the third or fourth one, actually, the specific post was one that was like super colorful, right on theme for like just my bubbly, like colorful personality. And it was like dating solo or partnered or both. And I was like, oh, yes, all of the above. I want to do that. So I downloaded the app and started swiping. And so funny, within maybe the first couple days of being on the app, I matched with the owners. And I found that the hashtag Open Team really makes it a point to build community by matching and chit-chatting with new members all over. So I really thought at the beginning it was like this app voodoo where like, oh, they must just have it. So all, all new members get to match with the owners and they'll ask about how their experience is going. And I found out that they actually were located right in Connecticut, which is where I'm from. And as, as they, we started chit-chatting, they started asking me how I found out about the app. They mentioned that #Open was hiring. And so I was like, that's interesting. I have a background in operations and management. That sounds really like it might be something interesting to explore. And within a couple of days, I sat down with our founders, David and Amanda, and had dinner and drinks. And what really struck me was as I started into the world of dating online, stuff like privacy and moderation policies were things that just never occurred to me. You know, I'm like, I'm a millennial who like is used to being on apps, used to just like signing those agreements and like accept, accept, And so when I heard about this app that not only gave me options to date ethically and transparently with my partner, but also in the background had all these business practices and ethics that really lined up with the way I was looking to date, it was just like, oh, wow. And when I started realizing and looking at what some of the other apps were doing with data and how they were selling users' data, it started to just kind of click like, Oh yeah, this is something that's really different. And I think I might want to be a part of that.

Wow. Okay. Can we— so I have a few things to unpack here. Let's go back to what you said is when you said that you want to date ethically and transparently. So tell me how you got into this, how you decide with your husband, like, can you walk me through that with your relationship? Yeah.

So, you know, I always say, you know, I am somebody who I was married with 2 kids by the time I was 26. So my husband and I jokingly and lovingly say like around 27, I had this like quarter-life crisis where I'm like, I'm married with 2 kids at 27 and like, what's next? Like I've spent my 20s like building career and building family, but like where was like the fun? And like, I'm still young and like, I feel great. I'm at this prime of my life, but you know, where's this fun part? And you know, when I looked back of really the piece of my life that was missing was me being able to explore sexuality. And that was something that prior to having kids was really important to me, was something that I really enjoyed exploring and engaging with. And I found that just becoming a mom, you kind of get away from that and you kind of get into this rut. And as a— in raising a kid or two kids, in our case with my husband, yeah, our sex life kind of hit a rough spot for a while. Yeah. And You know, through a lot of communication, we kind of figured out that exploring non-monogamy was something that we found really exciting and thrilling. And it's something that's really added to our relationship in a super positive way.

Okay.

I mean, that's so interesting. Good. Well, I mean, I think that's a lot of our, a lot of our listeners, they realize that, yeah, they got married young or they've just been with someone for a while. And this is what happens in relationships. Not in the no way saying that this is for everybody, but for many couples are like, Well, that'd be great, but my partner would never want to, or how would we navigate it? I think that's so interesting, like, that you work for the app, that they have the ethics. So people are thinking, oh, I'm afraid they could sell my data, or people like, what if my boss is on, or my neighbor's on? We don't really have to worry about that on the app, right?

Yeah, we're never going to sell your data to any third parties. We, uh, our privacy policy is very transparent. You can check it out right on our website. And we also have moderation policies that are really strong to make sure that we really uphold hold these community guidelines that are important. So you're not going to find an app where, you know, people are sending unsolicited dick pics. All of our photos in app are safe for— we call them safe for work. You're not going to find NSFW stuff publicly displayed. You know, because the thing is, like, we also don't want to make it really sex-focused. People can date and look for partners and dating and experiences, but it doesn't have to be this overly sexualized experience as you're out there and kind of dipping your toes in the water.

Right, because you just don't want to connect. Like, for— I feel like so many people call in and they're just like, how do we do it? Or we don't know anybody who's ever been open, who's been to a swinger party, or who's, you know, experienced, you know, experimented in this way. So I feel like that would be great, even just people wanted to talk to a couple about it and see what their experience has been. It seems like people are very open, which I love. You know what else I love about the app? What is it? You guys have 24 gender identities and 23 orientations. Or enter your own if it's not covered there.

You can include your pronouns. As you're starting to date, rather than traditional dating apps where you usually have male, female checkboxes, and we've seen it and we know, you know, some of our own team members have been on other dating platforms where as a couple it's really hard. You might have to have one profile where you're kind of like having to in your bio explain things, whereas we give you options to put it out there, right out there, your pronouns, what you identify as, you know, if you're somebody who considers yourself demisexual, We have that as an option. If you are a relationship anarchist, that's something you can put right on your profile. We have all these different terms to use to really self-identify. And if you don't see something, you can go ahead and free text in.

Yes, exactly. It's open.

As you're trying to meet people, it makes sense to just kind of put the real you out there.

It's so true. And what I also loved about the app is I did this about how you— Oh, I thought I took a screenshot about how you also talks about like what your what you're into sexually. Like, what do you want? What are your fantasies? What's your boundaries? Can you talk about that? Like what the options are?

As you're building your app, you're going to have sections to put in your preferences, interests, and boundaries. And we use hashtags to communicate those. So if you're somebody who's like, you know what, I'm really interested in maybe exploring threesomes, you can put that in, interested in hashtag threesomes. That way you can find other users that are looking by a hashtag search. So I can go in and do hashtag search threesome and I can find other users and they're going to pop up in my grid view. Closest people by distance will be first, and I can go through and find people who have those similar interests. So that really makes it easy to find those users who are looking for those exact interests as you. And the other great thing about hashtags that I really love is that if you're somebody who's exploring, maybe you don't even know what's out there, right? So as you're looking through people's profiles, you might see a hashtag that you're like, oh, hmm, I hadn't heard of that, or I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I would like to explore explore, you know, impact. What is that?

Wait, is there— are there any, um, hashtags that are trending that surprised you? Do you guys share that data?

Yeah, so, you know, one thing that I think is really surprising, going back to like we were saying, depending on what connections you're looking for, friends is the number one hashtag in our app, and it has been for a long time. So, you know, people really are looking for people who are open-minded, maybe are like-minded. You know, my, my partner, we don't necessarily feel comfortable talking about our lifestyle with all of our friends in our, in vanilla life. So just finding other people that we can get together and have a drink with, who we can chat with and talk about the challenges, and as well as the ups and downs of non-monogamy, is really great.

Yeah, that— because I think people need that. Well, especially now more than ever, we really need community. But I want to talk to you about how, how do you manage it with your friends and parents, telling them— do you tell them that you're in an open relationship and where you work? Because I just feel like I know I get judgment just talking about sex. And I'm curious about you saying like, oh, I work for this app and I'm in an open relationship.

Yeah, it's definitely, we're still in the in-between area, which I think, you know, is, there's probably a lot of people who are kind of in a similar situation. We have some friends that know and are super supportive. We have some other friends that know and are like, ooh, you know, that's something that makes me a little uncomfortable. And, you know, maybe let's not dig into that. And then, you know, our family members, they know where I work and kind of generally what I do. But we haven't really had like a sit-down conversation to say, you know, this is exactly what we're doing. And I think those are things that working for the app, I feel really excited that I get to meet other experts in the field and I get to meet other people who are having those conversations and that I can talk to and say, how did you have that conversation with your family? And like you said, building that community because it's not something that's mainstream and we don't really have a model for these conversations. It's really important to build community.

Yeah, no, I think that's a great place to start. I'm curious what it's like being a parent and being in an open relationship. Now, how do you navigate that? Do you talk to the other people on the playground? You know, how do you, how do you manage that?

We consider ourselves to be sex-positive parents. We try and have open conversations with our kids in general about sex positivity. Right now, our kids are really young. So in terms of specific dating, it's not a conversation we're having with them. But in terms of parenting, when we're meeting other people, the conversations around having kids are really important. Actually, perfect example. I went on a date last week. I'm just starting to navigate some limited in-person dating with our COVID numbers being pretty safe in Connecticut. And literally as I pulled into the date, we had been planning this for a while, and as I pulled in, I got a call from my husband that my kid got hurt. That she like got this massive splinter in her foot. And he was like, I don't think I can handle this. I'm the boo-boo parent. So I sat in my car for a minute, like, how am I going to handle this? Like, I feel terrible. I had to go into the restaurant, tell my date what happened. I felt terrible. And I kind of said, I'm going to go home. Maybe it won't be a big deal and I might be able to still meet you later. I'm not sure. And, you know, honestly, seeing how he reacted to that, was so telling to me because there are certain people who, like, you know, I could see being super frustrating, being like, we planned this for so long, and him being so understanding and being like, oh my God, absolutely, let me know what happens. Please take care of your kiddo, take all the time you need. Like, that's really important, seeing how people react.

That's a good litmus test, actually. Like, fake there's something going on just to see how someone reacts when the plans change. I know that is true. Like, he could be like, oh, well, I just got out of work and I was in traffic and here I am. But he was like totally cool with it. What I want to know is too, I heard this story about you, but you had the experience in childbirth because I'm always wondering how people get to realize that they're more open or how do they explore their sexuality? Can you tell me about that experience?

Oh yeah, I actually used to be a childbirth doula. So I actually love talking about stuff. I always joke that like I could be a big nerd and talk about about this stuff for days. Yeah, I'm somebody who really believes in natural birth. It's something that was important for me. And if that's something that's important to you, finding those resources is really exciting to be able to really seek out those stories of women that are empowering. And I think that in our society, we see a lot of birth stories that are really fearful and they're very medicalized as like emergencies. So during my pregnancies, I really sought out really empowering stories of women who had natural births felt like they had really found a sense of their body in that. And one thing that I find that's really interesting now as I'm exploring more kink and sensation and pain play is that I equate it so much to my experience with birth, where I remember learning in doula school and as I was doing childbirth classes that birth is this experience where you really can't control it. So as you go into it, it's almost like this idea of you have to submit to it. It's this experience that you know is going to be difficult, you know is going to have uncomfortable sensations. But if you can submit and you can try and relax your body and you can breathe through it, it can be a really empowering experience where at the end of it, you're like, wow, my body is capable of something pretty amazing. And as I'm exploring kink, I feel like there's such a connection there. I was telling somebody last week, it's the idea of like, as you're submitting to the pain, or maybe you're somebody who's submissive and you're submitting to your Domme, and you're having to breathe through those sensations, and you're really realizing what your body's capable of. And, you as a mother, realizing that my body was capable of this intense amount of pain, but I'm also able to experience intense amount of pleasure as well, was just really enlightening. And why not seek out those experiences?

Yeah, and very closely related, the pleasure and pain, the fact that you were able to make that connection. I'm sure being a doula was very helpful because you learned how to actually— and having a natural childbirth because breath is so important too. To life and to our pleasure, you know, sexually having more orgasms, I believe, like what I've learned too. And for many of you, we've talked about this, breathing into our body, extending orgasm, even edging with ourselves. So that would seem like that would be a great practice for, for life, I think. How has opening up changed?

I would say in a lot of ways. One is just the communication. So the level of communication that having an ethically non-monogamous relationship requires is is just really high. Like, we have to talk about emotions as they come up because it's not always going to be great. And if you don't talk about those things as they come up, they're going to become issues. So being able to really communicate both the positives and the negatives is super important. And I think that gives you such a strong foundation. And then learning— actually, I learned as I came into #open from the founders, from David and Amanda, about the concept of compersion. And as I've learned, I've learned a lot of people have never heard this, the idea of seeing your partner having pleasure or being really happy. And it's the opposite of jealousy. So, you know, rather than feeling this jealousy of being— feeling this intense pleasure at seeing, you know, somebody you love experience pleasure has been really fun to explore. And it's something that my husband and I have really enjoyed exploring, both together and then, you know, having experiences on our own dating, and then coming back and kind of chit-chatting about that. And that's something that we found— we found really— we find it really hot for— to be able to come back together and talk about dates and stuff. And that really kind of drives our own sex life.

That's the thing. And so you're saying, because I know compersion is something that we talk about, some people are just like, oh God, I'd be too jealous, or I was so jealous. I never get to the compersion point of just like, I'm compassionately seeing pleasure in my partner. Like, it actually gets me off to see my partner get off. Was it a journey for you guys to get there? Did you have some jealousy at first?

I would say there's— we've had some ups and downs. Like, it's not been just like I think it's definitely an arc and it comes and it goes depending on where we're at, if we're feeling good about ourselves. But a great place to start, I think, if you're like, "Ooh, I'm not sure how I would feel," and this is actually kind of how we started. I started just with sexting. I found a couple sexting buddies and started sexting, and my husband actually really enjoyed reading and seeing what we were— the conversations. And that was how we initially kind of got started. And then even that in the beginning really spiced up our sex. Sex life. And that's something like, right, an app. You can go in, that's something that people have on their profiles all the time, is a hashtag sexting.

Oh, you can say, I'm just here for sexting.

Absolutely.

You can say, I'm here for sexting. I'm looking for virtual experiences. During COVID we certainly had fun having some virtual dates. And, you know, we leaned into the virtual threesomes and that kind of stuff. And that is such a great place to start if you're someone brand new.

And again, tell me about a virtual threesome, please.

You know, we had, um, I've had some great dates and, and being able to include my husband and say, hey, let's like play, you know, while we're on video with, with, um, somebody that we've met and we've been talking to for a while. Um, and you know, I always say make sure it's somebody you trust and make sure you're on a platform that you, you feel is secure. Um, but yeah, having that kind of play with somebody else but not being in person is such a good way for you to just kind of start testing how you'll feel Before you actually do it.

No, I love this because I'm always saying like dirty talk in bed, roleplay it, but I love the idea of actually like taking it a few steps further, like to do it on a video chat is less threatening than actually being there in the moment and wanting to pull the cord or it gets awkward. Like try it out that way or sext. That's amazing. So, so Miley, tell me like what would you tell people before they wanted to open up or they're thinking about what would be your best piece of advice?

I think definitely seek out either other people who are already doing it. You know, there's some great accounts to follow of people who are already in the lifestyle on social media, or, you know, seek out blog pieces. I always say, like, look at the, the books. Like, The Ethical Slut is really great. Elle has some great books on sex and relationships. Yeah, Opening Up is great. So really start with some, some education so you understand there's different types of relationship styles when you get into ethical non-monogamy and kind of look at them. You know, there's like you were saying, there's swingers, there's ethical non-monogamy, there's polyamory. So kind of look through and see what maybe feels right. Or maybe you're like, I just want to kind of explore the sexual side. Yeah, just kind of start with some research, see what feels right for you. And then, yeah, the app really is such a great place to start because it is non-committal, right? You can create a— you can create your profile either solo, partnered, or both. And then you get out there, you can start exploring. And I always say, be transparent and say like, I'm just looking, we're kind of new to this and we're just kind of seeing what's out there. Not sure what I'm looking for. There's no harm in saying, I don't really know what I'm looking for, but I'm interested, you know?

Yeah, exactly. That's a place where it would be welcome actually, if you're just trying to, 'cause I think so much of this is about education and figuring out what you need and what you want and what a safe place to do it. Open, how can people find it?

So check us out at hashtagopen.com, and it's spelled out, so H-A-S-H-T-A-G-O-P-E-N.com. And then we're also on social media with the same handle. So Instagram, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook. And yeah, if you give us a follow, we're doing a lot of education sessions with it being COVID right now. We can't do in-person events. So that's another great place. So if you're curious, like, we'll be talking about some anal play tomorrow night, and we've been doing free online sessions, and we'd love to have you you come to chat with us, ask questions. That's so great. And you can meet other users. Yeah, in the chat room you can meet other users. So if you wanted to find out more about that, you can go to hashtagopen.com/events.

Okay, that is such a great service, especially now during COVID Oh my god, I love it. I love Hashtag Open. I love meeting you, Miley. Thank you so much for being here, for joining us on Sex with Emily. I know my listeners are curious. They ask, they call, especially now, you want to be safe, you want to be ethical, you want to just get some information. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Sex with Emily. There's so much more to talk about, so don't miss my next episode. Subscribe to Sex with Emily right now. Just do it. It's easy. Do it right now. You can find us on all social media. It is Sex with Emily. Was it good for you? Email me feedback@sexwithemily.com.