Truly Open Sex & Love with Whitney Miller

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So I think it's like the novelty, the passion. Like that's what you think about when you think about open relationships. For me, one, it made me closer with females, which people think is absolutely batshit crazy. But also two, it. It made me a better person, Truly. It made me a better human being. Like I am a better friend, lover, girlfriend, daughter, human in general. Because I feel like I know myself better than I ever have. And for me, it made me practice speaking and living my truth as opposed to trying to fit in someone else's box. And that doesn't work for me.

Right.

And so now, like you said, you feel free, right? Like, that's. That's amazing. That's one of the biggest compliments that you could possibly give me because that's what I'm all about. I want people to live and do as they completely please because they enjoy it.

Thanks for listening to sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily. And on today's show, I'm joined by dating coach and co host of the True Sex and Wild Love podcast, Whitney Miller to talk about open relationships. And we're also taking your calls. Topics include navigating different types of relationships and how to go about changing your boundaries. What it's like to go to an all female play party, ways to cope and deal with jealousy in your relationships, and how to bring up the idea of threesomes to your partner without them getting upset. All this and more. Thanks for listening.

Look into his eyes. They're the eyes of a man obsessed by sex.

Eyes that mock our sacred institutions.

Bedroom eyes, they call them in a bygone day.

Hey, Emily, you got a boyfriend?

Cause my man E here, he just got his heart broken. He thinks you're kind of cute.

A girl's gotta have her standards. Oh my.

The women know about shrinkage. Isn't it common knowledge?

What do you mean? Like laundry? It shrinks.

Can we not talk about sex so much?

Are you kidding me?

Oh, my God, I feel so good.

Being bad feels pretty good. You know, Emily's not the kind of girl you just play with.

You're listening to Sex with Emily. We're talking about sex, relationships, and everything in between. For more information, check out sexwithemily.com. you're gonna love our site. We got a ton of posts on there, blogs and posts, videos to help you have the sex life that you want. And find us on all social media. It is exwithemily across the board. Okay, intentions with Emily this year, you guys, I want you all to start the show off, if you'd like, for a second here, set an intention. I'm going to do one. I encourage you to do the same. So what I mean by this is like, when you're listening, think of like, why you're listening. What would you like to get out of the show? And I found that this really helps ground me in experiences. Even if I'm going to dinner with a friend, I'm like, why am I going to dinner with this friend? And I think about, well, I wanted to have a conversation with her about this or that or when I'm working out, I want to feel stronger in my body. So for this episode, you could think I'm new to opening up sexually and I want some ideas or, you know, monogamy never really seemed right for me. I'm curious what else is out there. My intention was to get you guys to. To understand that you get to decide what kind of commitment you Want to be in that there. You know, monogamy really isn't the only choice for everybody. But also maybe there's, you know, this will inspire you all to kind of think differently so you can make sure that your needs are getting met and not what you think society wants for your relationship. All right, guys, enjoy the show. I'm so excited to welcome my guest. Whitney Miller is here. She's from the True Sex and Wild Love podcast that I did with her with Wednesday Martin in New. You guys can check that out. We'll put it in the show notes, which is at sex with emily.com and Whitney.

You were Miss United States. That's amazing. Yeah. And now she got into the podcast, which I had so much fun meeting you guys and that you essentially have been. What I would love to talk to you about is how you got into your podcast and then you got into this whole space. As I know you were in a open relationship, and I don't know if you still are. I need to hear about your journey because I feel like this is the time people always ask me, in the 15 years I've been doing this, like, what's changed? And da, da. I'm like, people still have the same questions, like, women aren't having orgasms and men are confused about their penises. But the good news is people are realizing that monogamy isn't the only choice. And people, you know, So I love that you're here, Whitney Miller. Thanks.

I'm so excited to be here.

Thank you.

How much fun did we have on the show when you came?

I loved it. We had a blast. And I really enjoy your podcast. And you and Wednesday are, like, so great together.

Thank you.

Yeah, like, and I was listening to your one. Okay, so we're gonna get into our relationship thing. But I listened to your thing about the skirt club.

Oh, yes.

Which is the club for women.

Like an all female play party. Sex party, which I'd never been to before, ever.

Yeah, I haven't been to an all female play party.

No.

What's that like? No, no. I want to go. I want to hang out.

You know, everyone there was very cool, very welcoming, very sweet, but they just get after it. Like, we got there a little bit late, and we were going to do our live podcast from there, which has never understandably so. And I was like, okay, before the podcast starts, I have to just take a loop. You know, I gotta figure out something to talk about here, know what's going on. So I ended up playing spin the bottle with a Few people. And then you go into the back rooms, and people are just going for it.

I know you said that in the podcast, but what do you mean going for it? So give me a scene.

So they have, like, a VIP room, and they have all these other rooms, and we're in a penthouse in New York City. So amazing already.

Ye.

And they have the VIP room. I'm not sure how you get into the VIP room other than maybe you just walk in. I don't know. I just walked in, and there's four women on the bed. Probably, like, two couples that are just. One's going down on the other one. One's definitely squirting everywhere. And just, like, they're just enjoying it to the max. And you look over on the, you know, chair next to me, and there's another one, another female going down, another female. And then it's just me and Wednesday chatting in the middle of it, you know, and there's people in shower.

Wow, that is so fun. Because in that, like, I feel were most women there because there's no men.

No, it's all women.

So it's women who are bi. Curious, they say, or curious about exploring their sexuality. So is that something that you have always been interested in? Because I. I totally related to you because you're like, no, I've been with women, but, like, I like a man.

Yes.

You're like, I like his hairy chest. I want the muscles. I want him to pick me up. I'm like, exactly. Like, I've been with women. I like being with women, but it's. I like men.

It's just not the same for me. And I wish, like, I really do think it would be amazing to be, as a child attracted to a female as it is a man.

I feel a lot easier in some ways.

Yeah. But, like, you get to go on multiple dates and, like, God, I don't know. I would love that, but it's just neat.

Yeah.

I've been with multiple women, and I enjoy it. I love, like, the sensuality of it. I love the way the skin feels. It's a completely different experience than being with a man, as you know.

Right.

But, yeah, it's just. I just love a good hairy chest.

And, like, a de. Chest voice. And I get it.

Give it to me.

So what I want to hear a little bit about your journey, because you've had a pretty big, badass life already, and you're young.

Thank you.

But, like, you've done a lot of different things. You're in your late 20s. Can we talk about age with women that are young. I feel like you can.

Oh, totally. I'm 30.

You said it. 30.

Yep.

Okay. And so, like, you were sports anchor, which is awesome. Wake surfer. You did jujitsu. You had a YouTube show about it. And then Miss Texas, Miss United States.

Yeah. All over the place.

All over. But then the thing is, you got into an open relationship, and I would just love to hear about your journey, because I know you're also a dating coach. Relationship coach. So, like, just tell me, how does it go from monogamous to open?

Oh, man. I mean, for me, it was, like, a very challenging road, I'm sure. And I feel like you can hear the full spectrum. You hear, oh, I had no jealousy. And I grew up, and it was totally normal. For me, that was not the case.

Yeah.

I grew up in South Texas with a conservative Texas banker father that was like, you get married, and then you have babies and you have your career, and that's how it works, Right? Clearly. But that didn't quite work for me. I was always cheating on my boyfriends. I'd wake up, like, a year, year and a half in and be like, you know, there's really nothing wrong with you at all. But I was just bored. And then I didn't know what else to do other than go cheat, because I didn't really want to leave them. I still liked them.

It's exactly my experience in my 20s and 30s, pretty much. I was like, I just. It's great, but I'm not looking for marriage right now. We're not looking. I don't know what to do exactly. So you cheat, and then you're like, that doesn't feel good.

No, that doesn't feel good. Right.

So then what happen?

I met my partner at the time, Aubrey Marcus, and we started reading books. We were monogamous for two years, and we started reading Sex at Dawn and talking to some friends of ours about just kind of unconventional relationships that I never knew existed. I really thought the only way that you'd get through a relationship is you cheat.

Right, Right. Yeah. And then it ends, and then you do it again.

Exactly. And so we kind of talked about it on an intellectual level, and that's it. And then he was like, you know what? I think I want to open the relationship up and try that. And I said, hail, no, that is not gonna fly. I can't do it. I was still. I was always extremely jealous growing up in all of my other relationships. Very, very jealous, very alpha. Like, you cannot look at somebody Else impossible. So he brought that up to me and I just couldn't handle it and I wasn't ready for it. And so I said, no, I can't do it. And I went on. It was supposed to be a one month backpacking trip and I went to Peru and did some plant medicine for the first time and then was like, where is the furthest direct flight that I can take out of Peru? And it landed in Lima, or I'm sorry, in Madrid and went through there. And during that time, it was just like the first time I'd been out in the country by myself. I was very young. I had just gotten out of a relationship. I thought we were gonna get married and we already, we were living together, the whole thing. But I met somebody on that trip and was like, oh my God, you're extremely attractive. And so we had some fun. But all the while, I was still very much so in love with Aubrey. And that was the first kind of light bulb for me, saying, wait, you can explore and have fun with other people and even have sex with them or have these, you know, intimate dates with them, but still very much so be in love with someone else. Right?

Because in your brain you're like, no, if you are in love, you can't love someone else.

Right.

You can't have attraction. Right, that makes sense. Okay, so you felt that, I felt that.

And that was the first kind of like light bulb, like I said. And so I came back and we both still wanted to be with each other, but we got together under the open relationship container and we had no clue what we were doing.

Right. So. So tell me what happened? So how did it. Because I think people, I think that many people still believe in and I, that, that it's just, it's just for people who love sex, it's an excuse to just sleep with a bunch of people. And then most of them have your first reaction is hell no.

Right.

But you went from a hell no to like, yeah, I can do it. So. So how does that look? Because I understand what I hear from a lot of people who have are successfully open is it's painful in the beginning. There are some slip ups. You don't know how you're going to feel until. Right. So what was the first year like?

Terrible. I mean, let's be real. It was so challenging for me because it's just, it was so much programming and so much jealousy. And really what I tell people is first and foremost, if you try to get into this type of relationship, the commitment is number One to yourself. To really want to look at all of your traumas, all of your fears, all of your insecurities, because it puts a damn microphone, like, microscope on it.

Yeah.

And so. And that's hard. It's hard to look at all of that. And that's kind of the first, not even year. It was probably two, two and a half years that it was just like, what am I doing?

What would happen? Like, because I've seen it in so many different ways. Like, how did. First of all, would you. Was it that you were having threesomes or you had boyfriends on the side and then he was out with other women?

Right. So there's so many ways that you can do it. Everyone does it differently. For us, it was. We had threesomes. I hadn't had threesomes, but before in my life, but we had threesomes. And that was the first time that I figured out, oh, wait, I really do enjoy women, but I don't want to be in, like, a relationship with a woman.

Right.

And so we'd had threesomes, but most of it was separate. I would have, you know, guys that I would go out with, he would have girls that he would go out with, but everything was really close knit. So he was already seeing somebody when I came back from my trip. And we decided to be in this open relationship.

Okay.

Who is. And this is, you know, six years later, and she's my best friend, but at that time, you know, it's us trying to figure out, how do we sit down across the table from each other and not want to rip each other's throat out.

Right.

At least that's what I was thinking.

Can you maybe give me a. Like, how did you deal with jealousy? Like, did you find that after the years you were together, did you get less jealous?

Oh, yeah.

So you can diffuse the jealousy.

Yeah. I mean, and this is what people ask me all the time, how did you transcend jealousy? And I'm like, girl, I did not transcend jealousy. Like, I still get jealous, but I deal with it in a completely different way. And so for me, I feel like a lot of my jealousy was stemming from, like, fear of abandonment and always having competition among other women. And that was really interesting. That point is, I was. I never had a whole lot of girlfriends growing up. I had, you know, I grew up with my father. I had two older brothers. And so I was just like a guy's girl. I had all of these guys, guy friends. And then you would think getting into an open relationship would Kind of heighten the fact that you want to be competitive with other women. But it switched the flip. Like, it switched everything for me.

I love that.

And so now, going through it, on the other side of it, I have a group of girlfriends that I cherish dearly. And some of them, yes, have been in relationship with my partner, and some of them haven't. But it's just allowed me to really support other women instead of look for ways to tear them down.

Yeah, well, that is such an interesting point, because I believe that a lot of women who are threatened by other women and don't have a lot of girlfriends, and they never grow out of that. Like, you're gonna see them. They're the ones on, like, the Real Housewives or what? I don't know. I don't watch the show. But, like, there's women who go through their life, 40s, 50s, 60s, and they still hate women. But the fact that. And honestly, it's probably. It's because of their conditioning, how they were raised. But I love that you were able to see that, like, no, our female friendships really are the most beautiful thing and that you could really connect with them, and we don't have to tear each other down and be competitive and. And I mean, it sounds like you've done such. Such good work, and I always say some of the best work that we do on relationships. But it sounds like in your open relationship experience, it was like therapy and learning and growing, and so. And I think that people are assumed that if you're in open relationship, that you're, like, having orgies every Tuesday. It's a free for all.

Yeah.

Thursday's threesome Thursday.

Right.

But what can you give me, like, walk me through a week with you guys?

What it was like, it's so unexciting as to, like, what people think it really is, because they do think it's a free for all. And every time you hang out, people are on top of the dinner table, like, just going to town and having sex, and there's dildos everywhere.

And it's like, sounds like my house. No, I'm just kidding. I still go everywhere.

Yeah, but it's very simple. Like, it's, you know, for us, if we were to see somebody else, we would talk prior to that. Hey, what's going on on Wednesday night? You know, do we have plans? Do you have an event? Do you have anything that we need to do? No. Okay, great. Would it be okay with you, or you think it works with our schedule? If I see so and so and then you go out with so and so. And then we would stay the night. I would honestly prefer to stay. Stay the night out or have him stay the night out. So I just had my own time. My. I wasn't wondering what time he was going to come home or anything like that. It was just like, everything was easy.

Yeah.

That way.

So you would sleep. So did you. What were the rules that you had, though? So you. Because every couple who's in a successful open relationship, they set the boundaries, Right. So what were some of your boundaries or some of your rules?

So that's what is interesting is that they've changed, and I think they always change. But for us, we always. At first, we put on a lot of these rules and I. Ideas and boundaries and agreements and saying, like, you can't talk to them on this day, or you can only see someone after this time at night or whatever. And so you put on all of these different rules. And then we realized that that was just kind of like setting us up for disappointment. And it was. We were trying to control something that really we didn't want to control and trying to create this comfort, and it just wasn't really working. So for us, we started off with all these rules and then decided to relax the rules. And now we're at a place to where it's like we just want to show up for each and love each other and be as honest, as open as we possibly can.

Okay, so you guys are together now. You're back together. So.

No, we're so now. So, yeah, here's the story. So we were together for seven years, living together. We split up in May. And I think reason why was because we were showing up to each other with just so much kind of like our pain. Our pain and a lot of trauma that wasn't resolved from. Yeah, from the open relationship, but prior to the open relationship and any of the things that I haven't resolved, even. Even prior to that relationship. And so it's. It was. We were just not being able to communicate. We weren't really. We didn't trust each other's love. And there was one point. We just did a podcast yesterday about this. There was one point to where he. He said, do you. He said, I love you. And I said, that's debatable. And that to him was like.

What do you mean, that's debatable? And for me, it was just like, I didn't trust his love, nor did he trust my love. And so we loved each other, but we had so much like, of our boundaries up that we, like, couldn't. We couldn't fully release that.

Wow.

So what we had to do was like, we had to release everything. We had to release the relationship. And it wasn't easy. Like, it sounds like I'm saying that it was easy. And we're like, oh, yes, we understand that we have to do this now. No, no, no.

Looking back, you had to release it to come back and realize that you really were. There's always just more layers to peel back of the love.

Yeah, there's always more layers. And we just had to take the time to heal ourselves a little bit. And now we have full choice. Right. So we together. We had choice when we were together, but we were living together. We're seven and a half years together. And so a lot. And now I got my own place and I'm like cultivating that. And I love that, by the way.

Yeah.

I. Same. Yeah, I can't. Yeah. Living with someone is. Especially with that. I mean, like living with someone. Keeping the sex high. Yeah. Yeah. Hard. So now you got your own space. But you guys are still figuring out. So do you have primary partners? You've other partner. I mean, he's your primary still. And you've others or you're still.

We don't have any labels. I didn't want any sort of labels. We're calling it, like, it's love without labels. And it's like the note. We don't have a relationship. No relationship relationship. And so it's just total pure choice. And yeah, there's still these, you know, little speed bumps that will creep up on you. Little fear monsters that are like, he's not gonna love you tomorrow, you know, or little things like that. But we work through them so much faster now. And hon, honestly, it feels so easy. We're in the best place that we've ever been. And looking back. Cause you go through a breakup thinking, like, oh, my God, I might lose this person forever. And that was so terrifying for me. But now looking back after a few. Six months or whatever it was, I'm so grateful for that.

Yeah. I love the work that you guys are doing now. Do you, like, I'm curious about your sex life. Do you feel like being in that relationship with him that it was open? Like, did you feel like it's. You kept learning, peeling back the layers of your sex life as well. So you've learned a lot more about who you are?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Who I am. What I like, What I don't like. How to orgasm. Better, like, and also having a partner who's really into that and enjoys that.

Yes.

Plus, you get to have sex with other people, and that's always fun.

That is fun. So wait, so you learned how to. Yeah. How to have better orgasms. And he loves. He loves going down on you. You like pleasing him.

Right.

And then are you with other women too?

With him, we were, and we are a little bit now, but not so much. Like I said, like, I. I enjoy it because it's like something hot and sexy for him. And I'm down if it's one of my, like, close friends or it's like, I'm kind of, like, bi. Situational. Like, if there's a really great situation and a really awesome chick, I'm like, cool. I'm down with this.

Right.

But that's kind of at the extent.

Right. Got it. Seems like you guys have been a whole journey. That is really interesting. I love this. So do you think that. Is it something. Do you want kids? Yes. Okay.

I do.

And does he want kids? Okay.

Yeah. And I don't even know. I mean, we're in this place where we're not primaries. So if we get to a point where we want to have children together, that'll be a discussion that we'll have. Great. Awesome. I think he would be an incredible father. But also, there's the other side of the coin, that I could have kids with somebody else if I have that deep of connection with them.

God, you're so free right now. Don't you feel her freedom? I want to be Whitney now. Whitney, I have a question for you. So this is my question. So what do you think are the benefits to being in an open relationship? Like, is it the kind of thing where you're like, I could never go back? Like, what don't we know?

Right? So I think it's like the novelty, the passion. Like, that's what you think about when you think about open relationships. For me, one, it made me closer with females, which people think is. Is absolutely batshit crazy. But also, two, it made me a better person. Truly, it made me a better human being. I am a better friend, lover, girlfriend, daughter, human in general, because I feel like I know myself better than I ever have. And for me, it made me practice speaking and living my truth as opposed to trying to fit in someone else's box. And that doesn't work for me.

Right.

And so now, like you said, you feel free.

Right?

Like, that's. That's amazing. That's one of the biggest compliments that you could possibly give me, because that's what I'm all about. I want people to live and do as they completely please because they enjoy it.

Do you think that most people could, or many people could be monogamous if they were non monogamous, if they were willing to do the work, but we're just all in this monogamous jail?

Yes, if they were willing to do the work. You know, like I said, it's. It's first and foremost you have to do the work. And it's going to hurt. And it's probably going to hurt way worse than you ever thought possible. And I think, you know, I think monogamy is great too. I think it's sacred in its own perfect way. And a lot of people say, oh, you are, you know, you don't believe in monogamy. And that's not true. I believe in monogamy.

Right.

I think at some point I may be monogamous. You know, depending on what phase of life I am in, I'll do it. I'll give it a go. But with the agreement and the understanding that we can still have a conversation, that those agreements about monogamy may change in the future. Right.

So if you're with. Right those. If you're with someone, you would say, like, it could change. You're saying, yeah, that makes sense. I feel like people are just so. It's funny cause you said it was the hardest thing you ever did, but I feel like a lot of people in monogamous relationships are suffering so much. They get jealous and they got problems and they're. They have cravings, but they, they just, they don't want to do the work. And all relationships are work, whether it's monogamous or whether it's polyamorous or you're swinging or there's all these things, you know. We're gonna take a quick break and we come back more Whitney and we answering your calls.

Okay, let's take some calls.

Let's do it.

All right, we have Rick. He's 33, in California. Hey, Rick, thanks for calling.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Of course. What's up? We're here to help. Okay.

How would I approach my significant other about a possible threesome?

Okay. Well, Rick, have you guys ever. Have you ever talked. Talked about your sex life or what you're into before?

Yeah, we try to spice it up, you know, doing things and, you know, just. I think it just plateaued at this point. So.

So it's plateaued. Okay.

Yeah.

Well, what I'm going to tell you, and I'm so glad we have an expert in this here. I don't know if you're an expert at threesomes, but. But this is what I love, having help here because this, I want to say it's not so, Rick, A lot of people think like, well, we'll just have a threesome and that's gonna spice up our relationship. That's gonna make our sex life even better. And. And I gotta tell you that for many couples, if on super, super solid ground, having a threesome could be a disaster. So I suggest you work on what's really happening with your sex life. But, Wendy, what would you say about this?

No, I completely agree. Because once you open that door and you're in the threesome, shit can go sour really fast. And so I think, like, talking about what you guys are interested in doing, you said it plateaued. So maybe ask some more questions. What are some things that she wants to try? What are some things that you want to try? And then ask, where are you or are you not comfortable? And then I always like to have kind of like a. An intentional reconnection after a threesome. You know, instead of like, you just have the threesome and then it's like, okay, let's go back to normal life. Like, no, like, we need to have this reconnective time together to show each other appreciation for that experience.

So, Rick, what do you think about that? Where are you guys? Have you, you know, talked about the threesome or have you just talked about spicing it up?

Yeah, we talked about the threesome in her, you know, her response was like, you know, whatever makes me happy kind of thing.

That's. Yeah, that's. You don't want to have a threesome because that's. She's not into what just makes you happy. That's going to be a disaster. We got to make sure that she's into it. It's just she want to be with a woman.

Has she been with women before?

Has she?

Yes.

Yeah, she.

She's, you know, messed around with, you know, the female before. I don't think she went the whole way, but, you know, she said she was interested in, you know, trying it with. With a female.

Okay, well, if she's interested, what I recommend is I love the idea of you guys, like, doing something like role play around it when you guys are like, fooling around and you could be like, right now I'm picturing there's another woman here and she's going down on you or she's sucking my cock or, like, playing with it. Watch some threesome porn together and then figure out, like, she's got to see that. How. How would that actually feel? Have boundaries and rules, especially, you know, we're on a threesome, who's the person? But before you even get there, I think you. You have a little bit more work to do with her and make sure that she's truly on board with it. But I. What I don't love, Rick, is that her answer was whatever you want. Want to please you. Because I want to know. And what's going to serve you best, Rick, to get your needs met is if you find out what she wants, what turns her on. You say back to her, I just want to do what pleases you. Let's figure out what pleases you too. And then you go on this journey together, and then you might be amazed at what you find out, and she might not even know. And that's also a fun journey to go on. If you're willing to take it. You guys can figure out what turns around on, you know.

Right.

There's a lot of different ways to do that. Yeah.

Let's say if I get her to, you know, like, open up and say.

Hey, you know, this is what I want, what would be the route, the.

Best route after that? Would it be somebody that we know, somebody that go outside, or.

Okay, once you get someone, There's a lot of different schools that thought about this. I typically think it's not best to be with someone that you're already good friends with so that you already know. I think that there's a lot of different sites to find people. What do you think, Wendy? What's your take on it?

Yeah, there are a lot of different sites to find people. I've always done it with friends that I know, and for me, it lays the ground for. We know who the primary partnership is. We can lay the groundwork with each other. We can talk about the boundaries, but it can get a little kind of hairy.

But are they your best? Because they're your girlfriends. But are they people that you want to hook up with as well in that way? Are they people that you've met in this? I guess I have these old. But people I've been with have been like people I met. They weren't like my girls, you know, they weren't my friends.

These are like my friends.

Your besties?

Yeah.

And you may. You knew them for a long time before.

A little bit, yeah. The first. The first threesome I had, we were Friends, but I didn't know them for that long. But we hung out and worked out together, and we were constantly around each other for sure.

Okay.

So for me, I actually feel more comfortable if I'm hooking up with friends or someone that I know fairly well, as opposed to a stranger.

All right. See, there you go, Rick. You can find it all different ways. I think it can be tricky with friendships sometimes. But, Wendy, let's also say that you live in a world where I feel like maybe the culture, the community around are all sort of more like minded A bit. Yeah.

A bit. Yeah. So it can get tricky with friends, though, if you. I agree with that.

Yeah. You just gotta tread lightly, have a lot of conversations. And I wouldn't rush into it.

Yeah. And see what she kind of feels like. If you do get to that point, would you wanna hook up with a friend of yours? Would you wanna hook up with a stranger? Do you wanna go on a dating site?

Okay. Thanks, Rick. Let's talk to Leo. He's 41 in Washington. Hey, Leo, what's going on?

Hello.

Hello.

Hi, Dr. Emily, thank you so much for your show. Really appreciate your openness towards human sexuality. And Whitney, thank you for broach. It's. It's certainly very interesting. And it brought forth this thing that has been bothering my partner and I for quite a while.

Okay, what happened?

We opened our relationship. We'd been married for, oh, eight years, and we had a great sex life. We still do have a great sex life. But one of the things that happened was that our open relationship was very, very good and then went very, very south because of one of our partners created an issue, and then we decided to close it. But going into the open relationship, we often revolved around our dirty talk that was like, hey, you know, it would be super hot if you were with another girl or if we had two guys and you. And so all of our dirty talk was revolving around multiple partners and the exposure that kind of comes with that. And it was really, really hot. Well, when the openness kind of faded and we decided to put a cap on that, we kind of lost how to dirty talk.

Huh.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, I. I guess. I mean, there are others. So you guys are still together?

Yes, absolutely.

Okay. I think maybe you just need some more. Maybe some more material or find other things that could turn you on. Like if you guys were just dirty talking about the open relationship. How long have you guys been together?

First of all, 13 years.

Okay. Have you guys explored other things besides dirty talk? Because I would first say that maybe there's other things you could. You could go on a deep dive and figure out other things to talk about. But I feel like maybe you just need a little break from the dirty talk and try some other things. Have you tried, you know, role playing? Have you tried any power play? Like, there's a lot of. I feel like people who are into, like, dirty talker. There's. I think it's a way of. It actually can be really. It's a way of being really intimate with your partner, and it's a connection, especially if our minds are wandering during sex. So maybe bringing in some other activities during sex that are, like, new and exciting to you guys, if that is role playing or bondage or something.

Yeah. And maybe because it sounds like the dirty talk was focused on the open relationship and that went sour, so now you don't want to talk about it. Is that right?

Absolutely. That's exactly what's going on. So we're. We kind of. We get to that point where, you know, it'd be a nice moment for, like, oh, it would be so hot to see this, and both of us kind of clam up and then, you know, that. That moment is gone. That moment is fleeting.

Have you guys talked about that?

We don't know.

Like, hey, when we get into that moment, you know, when we. Yeah, when we want to say these things, it would be so hot if there was somebody else. But we both clam up and then maybe get kind of curious as to why and talk about that and start healing what's there.

How does that sound?

We've kind of gone down that path here and there, and both of us have gone into therapy for it and, you know, really pushed our own, you know, to find out why things had gone south. We took a deep dive and did a lot of introspection.

Okay.

And it was great, but there's still that, you know, what used to be, which was, you know, not just dirty talk. Of our variety of games that we've always played. There's always that lingering sense of, yeah, but this is when it went south.

But did you say why? Why did it go south?

How did it go south?

It was a really difficult situation. Our threesomes. And our. Our threesomes involved a close friend of mine, and then he stepped outside of what we had established as boundaries and then lied. And, you know, it. It made things really difficult when. Then he went behind my back with my partner, and, you know, they started a more intimate relationship than I was aware of. And it really really sat wrong with me. So I lost my friend, I lost trust with my partner.

Okay.

And we had to really struggle to gain things back.

Yeah. Have you guys. And you've. You, have you been in therapy together to rebuild the trust? Because whenever it's broken, you have. Okay.

Yeah. And we've been doing that for about a year. And it's, it's helpful, but it's, you know, it was something that was really fun before we were hurt by that incident.

Yeah. No, I'm really.

If you guys have been doing some work, though, I think, like, I feel like there might be other this things to put the dirty talk on hold for a little bit and maybe explore the. See if there's other ways to connect intimately. Like, I feel like maybe some more connected sex or some tantric sex, some, like, breath work. You don't have to go all tantra and go all crazy. But you could, like, I just think, trying new things and thinking, well, where could we go next? If you guys have been together 13 years, you know, the great thing about sex, it's like they just like therapy, peeling back the layers of the onion. So maybe there's places in your sex life that you could go now, and it's gonna be like a new shared experience that doesn't have to do with an open relationship, but places that you've never gone. And that could be fun too. Like, where do we go next?

Yeah, I so agree with that.

I think.

I think that could be huge.

Yeah. That's what's so fun about sex and healing too.

Especially if you're doing like, tantra and figuring that out and some breath work. And that can be really healing for both of you guys within that intimate sex.

Yeah, we like that, Leo. Okay.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that yet.

Yeah. Try something new. So we're here for you. Thanks, Leo. Thanks for calling Sex with Emily. We're going to talk to Michelle, 48, in Washington. Hey, Michelle, thanks for calling. Hi. Hi. So.

So I have been in a relationship for the last three years with an amazing guy. We have crazy, great sex. Super passionate. I, you know, know how to orgasm, do everything I need for my body. He knows what to do. It's just a really great relationship. We. The one thing is we do a lot of dirty talk and fantasy and role playing. We both have this fantasy of each other being with somebody else, whether. Whether we're at a club, you know, a swingers club or whatever. But for me, it's just fantasy. And for him, it's become where he Wants it to be reality.

Okay.

Like, he wants to put me on dating sites and have me, you know, go out, make out, have sex. But the one stipulation is it has to be in our room, in my bed.

Okay.

I'm not comfortable with that.

Yeah.

And I just. I can't toy with emotions of other people like that because. And I say, you know, that kind of concerns me because it makes me think, do you really love me? But I, you know, I wholeheartedly know he's. He's insanely in love with me. And the way he says it is that I love you so much. I just. It turns me on and gets me so hot thinking that I can share you with somebody, knowing that you'll never leave me and always be with me.

Okay.

So the part of you. Yeah, I'm. So you're thinking, like, the part of you that you actually are not interested in being is the part of it that's upsetting is that you don't actually want to be with another man, you just want to talk about it. Or is it. Is it the part that has to be in your bedroom?

You know, I think. I think I just feel like.

It would have to be done totally. Where both parties know what I'm doing. Not going online dating and meeting someone, but not being truthful.

Oh, you have to be truthful. I missed that. Skip that part. Of course. I. Yes, Wendy, you have to. You got to be truthful. That's actually not moral, ethical. That's not how you want to operate in the world. I think you. That's not fair to the other person.

I agree. Yeah. When you said toy with another one. Emotions, I couldn't quite understand what you were saying. But, yeah, there's no toying if you guys are in truth and understand what's going on. And when you're in that truth with each other, it's still fun for them too. And it can be fun for you as well and everybody. So. But I think you do have to be open and honest about absolutely what's going on. Going on.

Yeah. You really do. So that's something you then would.

Yeah. Would we still be. I mean, like, so we're each other's, you know, primary or, you know, or I don't know how to use the term, but. But you know, these other people, like, I'm not comfortable yet with him being with another woman. He totally is for me. And he's just like, you have to swear you would. You would. Would never leave. I know you're in love with Me, it would never happen. But I just need to hear it.

So wrong. But I hear what you're saying. If it's.

I feel like you guys have some more talking to do around this and some more like figuring out what exactly it looks like and what are the, what are the intentions. Like if you're not really ready yet or he's not really ready. It sounds like there's just maybe you guys are close, but I would not let him pressure you into doing something you don't want to do. And it sounds like he needs a little bit more listening and you guys have to do a little bit more figuring out because there's so many different, different combinations of ways you could make it work yet. But I feel like if he's being really dogmatic about it, he won't budge. Then, like I say, no way, you guys. There's still more work to do here.

Yeah. And I think the one thing that sparks my interest too is when he was saying obviously he wants affirmations. And I totally understand that we all want affirmations in our relationship. But for me, the point of you have to swear to me that you're not going to leave. Sounds a little like he's worried at the same time, even though he's turned on. I'm not really sure. So I think there might need to be a little bit more conversation there until it's like, look, I totally get that you want the affirmations there. That's hot and that's sexy and we.

All want that and the guarantee. And there is no guarantees either. But I'm sure, you know, I, I can't. Like, is there something kind of word player, like even like cuckolding thing? I can't say like, you'll never leave me.

I'm just play this out. See what it really looks like. See, see what you would really be turned on by. See what he would really be turned on by and then see if there's like some overlap there.

Okay, thank you for calling, Michelle. I appreciate it. Okay, let's talk to Dominic. He's 43, in Pennsylvania. Hey, Dominic, what's going on? How can we help?

Hello, Emily. Hey, how you doing? First time caller.

Thanks for calling. Welcome.

I drive a truck for a living across the United States. All 48 states, including Alaska. And I'm out for like three weeks. And then I come home for like three, three or four days. And the sex is great with my wife. We've been married for 25 years.

And the thing is, is that when I'm out on the road. I like to talk dirty to her when I'm on the phone. Make, like, nice compliments and, you know, like, sexual compliments to her. And she doesn't have, like, any comeback. Where. Where can she go to, like, get material to learn about more of a, you know.

Yeah, no, it's a great question. Does she want phone Dominic? My first was, does she want to learn how to talk dirty?

Yes. She's asked me all the time. Like, what do I need to say?

Okay, cool. Yeah, no, this is great. So I feel like it is, like, a skill, like, anything else around, like, born with, like, how to talk anything, really. So. So talking dirty is really something where, you know, you guys can kind of. She can practice or you can practice. It's just kind of talking about things that you. You. You want to happen. Something that you want to happen. Something that's happened in the past, something that you want to have something that's happened in the past. Describing something that she wants to happen in the future. But really, it's a. I'm trying to think of where to go to practice this. I always say, like, once you get your voice down, practice in the shower so she doesn't feel so awkward. But you guys have been together for 25 years, so I feel like you'll be cool with it. There's this. This app that we got, this slutbot app that's like, do you know about the slutbot?

That's what I was about to say. This slot.

Were you gonna see it too?

Yes.

Okay.

We.

Okay, fine. This is a. By everybody, Dominic. This is what she's got to do. Sign up for. What is it again? It's slutbot. Literally, Google slutbot. And it's free, and it's an app on your phone, and she puts her number in. And they don't spam you. They just, like, sext me all the time. And it's really hot. It'll be like. And it teaches you how to have the language. It's like. She'll say that. She could even say that she's looking for. I don't think it matters. I guess she could say that she's looking for a woman because then the woman is talking dirty to a man. Do you know what I'm saying? So she could learn that language for a man. But tell her just to play with it, because it's an app where. I found this last time. I'll read it for you. It's like, you put in things that you want to try and then the app, like, texts you back.

Let me just find, like, generates sentences for you.

It generates sentences for you. So she could.

I'm a. I'm a pleasure guy. I like to make sure the woman's happy. I mean, the best thing that God put on earth is women.

Yeah, Dominique, I agree.

So I like to please her first and then. But when I'm texting her or if I'm talking on the phone, she's like, well, what do you want me to say back to you? And I'm like, well, tell me what you're feeling. What you. What do you think you should say? You know, she just kind of like, I don't know.

Well, what. What would you. Well, I mean, here's the thing.

Like, maybe ask her what would feel good.

Yeah.

Or what feels good when you guys are having sex.

Sex. Yeah. Ask her what she likes.

It all feels good.

No, but what does she. Like? Like what? Like, she's probably worrying about what you want to say, but, like, what feels good to her? Like, that you've done to her. Like, what it feels like, what she likes doing to you. Like, I think the thing about it is, like, being really descriptive.

And, you know, one of the things is, I always tell, like, to start a great place is, like, she could describe, like, one of the. Her most favorite times you guys had seen sex. Like, does she have a top three moment? And then she could describe it back to you. Like, I'm remembering the time that the kids almost walked in, but they didn't. And we were taking a shower, and I was dripping wet, and you came up behind me, you know, like something that's actually happened.

So that could be one of them. And this frigging app, Man, Dominic, it's so fun. It's like, I love trying new things with you. This is what it said to me. I was thinking I'd like to try using a bullet vibrator on your. When I fuck you from behind. Do you like the idea? Like, it gives you. But this is more for a woman. So she could put. She could put in a man. Like, you know that she's looking for a man. And then it'll be like, with the man, she could say she's a man, and then there's a woman. Do you understand what I'm saying? I'm so exhausted. Now. Listen, I was thinking about. Omg. I was thinking about the time we had sex in the shower. I remember the feeling of your skin getting all slippery beneath my hands. How did it feel when I pressed against the tiles, like, it's. It's awesome. So that's what I would suggest.

These are. These are the things that I tell her about, you know, how wonderful she, you know, she's sucked my cock when I last time I was home and how I enjoyed, you know, going down on her. And, you know, and she just goes, yeah, huh? Like, I'm like, well, what do you mean? Yeah, tell me what you enjoy. Tell me what you like.

She probably liked that too. But what you want to hear her say is, I love sucking your cock, and it's so big. And when you came in my mouth.

Right.

So that's what you got.

Are there. Is there, like, movies out there? Look, that you could watch? Because we do watch, you know, movies together.

I talk dirty. This is where porn might be a good one.

I was gonna say that. Probably just.

This is where I like to have her watch. Watch some porn together.

Yeah. Honestly, like, I think I finally got it.

I finally got her. Use a dildo after 25.

Nice, Dominic. That's good. Winning. Winning. Winning. Read some erotica. Listen, she could read some erotica. What I love is.

What'S her name?

Rachel Kramer. Bustle does, like, an anthology every year of like or a few years of the best erotica. Go to Amazon, order some books about erotica. She could read that. That would really help her as well. Have her find something that interests her. She could even read it to you over the phone and kind of incorporate you into it. Get creative with it. She tried to vibrate her. Who knows what's gonna happen? Thank you, Dominic. We gotta go. I appreciate your call. Keep me posted. We are changing the world one orgasm at a time, Whitney, and you're helping me. Thank you for being here. Of course. I've got quick key questions for you, but they have to be super quick. Ready? Biggest turn on.

I love being kissed on the neck.

Biggest turnoff.

Oh, gosh. Certain smells.

What makes good sex?

Connectivity.

Something you would tell your younger self about sex.

Oh, girl, learn how to please yourself. And pleasure is about you too. Number one sex tip to know that you can have very explosive orgasms. Like, focus on that.

You can learn that.

Please rate us wherever you listen to the show. Just look down right now. How are you listening? Give us five stars. Leave a comment on itunes. It's totally helpful. We appreciate that. I appreciate you. And thanks to my awesome team, Ken, Kristen, Elisa, Brian, producer, Jamie and Michael. Was it good for you? Email me feedbackexwithemily.com.

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