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But I also don't want people to think that it's only. You only come to see somebody if you have pain because small percentage but I wish that it would grow. Come in because they're just curious. They're like, I have a great sex but I just, I don't. I want to know more. Or I have great sex but I only climax in the same way. Are there other ways to climax?

You're listening to Sex with Emily. I'm Dr. Emily and I'm here to help you prioritize your pleasure and liberate the conversation around sex. Everyone's talking about breath work these days, but for pleasure muse Dolly, Josette Breath opens up an entire world of erotic sensation. And it's a world you, yes, you already possess. So if a full body orgasm sounds like fun, you're going to love this conversation. Because Dolly shows us how to access that pleasure filled world all on her own. She's been recognized as one of the most innovative bodyworkers by Cosmopolitan and Hustler magazines. But more importantly, she helps women and couples navigate their sexual evolution, wake up from numbness and live more orgasmic lives. In this episode we cover how to hack your nervous system for better sex, how to become a great masturbator, what somatic sex therapy actually is and why so many people spend especially bulba owners are Trained to numb out from the waist down. Spoiler alert. Her clients definitely aren't numb anymore. Intentions with Emily. I encourage you to set an intention with me for the show. So when you're listening, what do you want to get out of it? What do you want to get out of this episode? My intention is to empower you to grab a mirror and get to know your anatomy even better. Because the more you explore your body, the more pleasure you're going to find. I promise you can find more dolly@thepleasuremuse.com. all right, everyone, enjoy this episode.

Welcome back to the show. First off, I realize that you haven't been on since 2017.

Now it's been a couple of years.

So it's really good to see you and I'm excited. But what I realize is I'd love to hear about your own healing story, because on your website you say this part of your bio that your self development and personal healing followed. Your first. Following your first marriage led you to realize that erotic possibility is our own responsibility. So can you just talk to us about how you healed, how you got on this path?

Yeah, of course. So I was in basically a sexless marriage, and this is somebody that I loved. Like, I love this man. But whatever I did, our sexual compatibility was just not. Not working out. And I was feeling like, what's wrong with me? I'm too fat, I'm too this. All the what ifs. Oh, maybe if I'm not so assertive, maybe if I just, I don't know, wear white cotton underwear and act like innocent and I don't know what, what it was, but we were just not compatible. And I tried all sorts of things and until I finally had the courage in my mind to say this part of my life is really important. And, and when we. I asked, you know, for the divorce.

During my time of, you know, my healing through the divorce, you know, I don't wish that upon anybody, but I really started to feel this connection with myself. I did a lot of self touch. I am like, you know, professional masturbator. But not just that. It was like a more of an embodied way where I needed it as a nurturing capacity, not just like to put myself to sleep. I needed. I did a lot of mirror work just being with myself and like that I'm okay because when somebody goes through a divorce, whether it's because of, you know, no sex or whatever, the reason is, what usually happens is what was wrong with me and we need to go out there in the world and feel validated, you know. And once I kind of got through my. My self time and I was feeling a little bit more confident. Oh, my God, I had fun. I was like, Mr. October, Mr. November. I just wanted to go explore and make sure, like, am I okay? Am I attractive? Like, is this. And I had a good time.

And luckily, when I met Jason, my. My husband, you know, Jason, I love Jason. We were like on the same. We were so compatible. I also noticed something in my first marriage. You know, I really got in my masculine. And I have to thank a boyfriend that I had before Jason. He was super alpha male. He was kind of like, I'll pick you up at 8, wear a skirt. And just like that direction to do that. Because before, remember, I was like, not even getting noticed, right. It just like started to put me in my feminine. And I really think that aspect of just embracing the feminine while I was exploring my own body and, you know, reading all kinds of stuff, I'm journaling my baths, all of that stuff. I. I prepared. I was preparing myself for Jason to really receive him, you know.

Okay, so hearing yourself through. Through the kind of work that you do now as well. Right.

It's interesting because I didn't find this current work until I married Jason. And then I went through another little slump with all the body stuff because we were trying to get pregnant and I was not getting. I would. I would get pregnant, but my body was not able to maintain the pregnancies. I was a TV producer at the time. All this high stress. So then he said, well, maybe take a break, look at your health. And one of our holistic doctors wrote a book, the Brighton Baby. It's like all the things to make yourself healthy to prepare for pregnancy. And one of the chapters was for men, and it talked about a prostate massage and my husband's, because he's curious. I mean, we're like super curious, compatible people in this way. He was asking him about it, and he said, well, I have a friend who could teach Dolly how to do this. And meanwhile, our sex was, like, about procreation. Procreation, procreation. And a lot of like, our natural spark and intimacy was so focused on this. And I had two stepsons. So I mean, I was enjoying, you know, the tasting of being a mother in that way. But when Jason was curious about this, it was like date night prostate massage. And so I went to the woman who eventually became a mentor to me and Ellen Heed, and she says, you were just, will you be natural at this? So when I Went to do my training in sexological body work. It was just to see, like, okay. Oh. I decided to do that because then I had my. My final miscarriage and I just didn't want to put my body through all the stuff. And I just said, okay, if we're not going to use sex for procreation, what else is there? So I went to go study this, and I didn't know if I was going to do this professionally or just use it to contribute to my relationship with Jason. One thing led to the other. I tested out and I had some great progress with clients. And I don't know, I just. He sees it, he supports it. He thinks it's amazing. And we have grown exponentially as a couple because of it.

Dali, I think it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing all of that, really, because you're someone who really inspires me. We met probably right after you did sexological bodywork training in our somatica training or somatic therapy. Healing therapy. So, you know, I want to know. Let's talk about, like, it is a very profound healing method. And so much of what I do, you know, we talk, talk, talk. But how would you kind of define what somatic healing is?

Somatic healing?

Yeah, somatica.

Well, somatic soma means of the body. So we're basically tuning into the body, really looking to see the wisdom of the body and what it has to teach us. All of us are overthinkers. We're just like bobbleheads. Okay? Think, think, think. Our heads get bigger and all we do is overthink. And we. And we always override our body. We get instincts, we get intuitions. We have these feelings. I can't do one more day of blah, blah, blah, or whatever it is. And what do we do? We still don't listen. And we keep overriding. And then we crush. Or like we. We just. Our bodies actually, what they start to do is numb out. They numb out and then you start to feel less enjoyment goes away. Just things. Everything feels a little more gray, not like bright and colorful. So a somatic sexological body worker is. We are co creating a session, like, looking at habits that a client may have that they come to us and they. There's something that they want to heal. There's something that just doesn't feel right. They have sexual incompatibility. I often thought if I knew of sexological body work in my first marriage, would I still be married? Right? Like, I really sometimes think of that. Of course, I love my life. I don't wish, you know, that to change. I wish the best for my first husband. I just, I dearly love the man. Like he's a great human being. But we, we found our people, you know, and. But I do sometimes think that. And so this idea of sexological body work, teaching people how to get out of their habits and actually move free, to feel the body, to listen and to like, to be fantasy free to be.

We create habits and to get out of those habits in a way that feels safe. And we have a code of ethics. I'm not bringing my erotic energy in these sessions. I'm there just really holding space, really, especially my female clients, just really being a sister to really help support them, to be non judgmental, to help unwind shame. And until we learn how pleasure can be activated in the body. Layering in embodiment techniques, the breath, movement, touch, sound, real focused attention. One does not know what's possible in our body because we bring with sexuality so many.

Stigmas or shoulds or how it's supposed to look like. And we forget to really be present to it. So we teach you how to be present in your different states of arousal and really have agency over.

Over your sexuality, over your sensuality and to be at choice. That's the key thing, to be at choice for how you want to express yourself as a neurotic being. Because people are actually walking around doing things because they think they should or because else is pressuring them or thinking they should do or act in a certain way sexually.

You mean like. So what you're referring to is like more of like performative sex or stuff just like, oh, I should. What's wrong with me that I don't have this desire? So what I love about what you do is, is what you're saying is like you help people recognize when they actually are genuinely turned on and aroused and what that process looks like. You kind of like walk them through their bodies with them.

Like, exactly, exactly. The thing that I love. Well, there's two things that I really love the most right now. Our vulva mapping. But lately I've been into this whole vulva hug meditation. But I'll get to that. Because my vulva hug meditation came about because of my mapping, like hundreds of women. And this idea of mapping. You can do it for penises too, anuses, even before.

Anuses, rectums. Like you can do all of this because you're. There's all this shame to unwind. But it's in a safe container. We have gloves and it's just when the person is ready. And people who see a sexological body worker there actually has to have to say this because you don't just get on the table right away. And we do bodywork. It's literally a process of, like, having the safety unwinding. Whatever issues they're bringing to us, we have to have a sense that we can trust their body so that we can help them hear the messages of their body. So you may not have a mapping like on first session with a sexological body worker, but mapping is going point by point. It's not only understanding the anatomy. I mean, a woman's vulva. Hello. I mean, we have, you know, the vestibular bulbs that are inside of the outer labia. You have all of the, you know, the perineum, the perineal sponge, the urethral sponge, all of these different things. So there's the vulva mapping, and then there's vaginal mapping. So you're learning the anatomy, but this is the difference. You cannot just look at a graph and figure it out. A somatic sexological bodyworker is guiding you to have a felt experience. If you do not feel it in your body, you will not heal, you will not learn, you will not expand the pleasure possibility, or you won't notice if there's some numbing or some. Some pain that might need to be released or a story held there. I mean, our temples are our yoni verse. Like, they hold so much. I mean, especially if we've had some visitors down there.

So every visitor that I've had, they.

May have left a little imprint there. We might just need to heal and, like, you know, cleanse them out of there.

Does that happen? Okay, so Dolly, I want to know about. I love. I try to think of all the. All the visitors I've had down there.

Yeah.

If they all could be like, hello. That was John, that was Bob. Question for you, though. So let's back up before we get into the intricacies of vulva mapping and all the stuff you're doing when somebody comes to you. And I know that you see couples, but you've told me that you're focusing more on vulva owners right now. And I know you've done it all, but like, people. And you've said this before, that people are craving comfort in their bodies. They're tired of feeling sexually frustrated. They're embarrassed, they're broken. Sex is a chore. It's not all that cracked up to be. Would you say that that's what a lot of the vulva owners are saying when they come to you or there's.

Pain, what are they?

I mean, that's what you said in the past.

Yes, it's that. But I also don't want people to think that it's only. You only come to see somebody if you have pain, because a small percentage, but I wish that it would grow. Come in because they're just curious. They're like, I have great sex, but I just. I don't. I want to know more. Or I have great sex, but I only climax in the same way. Are there other ways to climax? You know, or I have a new partner and we love each other so much, but the touch. Can you teach him to touch me and to understand my anatomy better? So there are all of these reasons, but I'll be honest with you, some of my favorite clients, they are a little bit of the shy ones. I don't want to convince anybody that they need this. They have to be like, I want this. But they're a little shy. Religious dogma, cultural stuff.

Just this whole idea of empowerment. They're nervous, so it takes them a minute to feel really comfortable.

And.

Yeah, well, I mean, that. That's incredible, Dolly, because I think so many people, you know, they email the show, they call in a lot of vulvas. They. They do. They wonder if they're orgasming correctly or they could only do it with their legs tightly. I get a lot of those. If people could only have an orgasm with their legs tightly together, right? Pushing their two legs together because. Or they can only get on top or the bottom, or they want to learn new ways. So let's talk about that for a minute. Like, how would this. How would you work with a vulva on understanding where you even start? Like, are they having an orgasm with you sometimes, right?

Or no.

Do you ever bring people orgasm? Are you. Are they telling you that this is what I do, or do you kind of unpack their body with them and kind of say, this is what's possible?

Well, how it looks is we begin just with our client chat. Okay. Then I start to develop and teach them embodiment skills. So even just in their chair, I do this awakening, the hand exercise. I think I remember Esther Perel. There's a lot of people who have a different variation. I learned it from my consent teacher, Betty Martin. And then I've embellished upon it because I use that. It's a skill, safe place to start to embellish on self touch. Because remember, I'm also getting some people who are Nervous about self touch. I have a woman who even came to me and she says, everything below my waist is for my husband. That's not for me. And she's actually a boudoir photographer. And she says, and I spread your stuff. And I thought, if I can get this embodiment stuff, if I can understand what's going down there, I mean, what's possible for me? And what could I even help my clients with, you know, to help them get more embodied?

It's amazing.

So you and I were like, oh, yeah, Mr. November, Mr. Let's do this. Let's try this toy. Honey, you want to go have a prostate massage? I mean, we're like curious adventure seekers in terms of sexuality, but there are not the people I mean. And I don't want heteronormativity to get a bad rapid. You know.

I wouldn't call myself vanilla. It was a big compliment. One time somebody said, oh, Dolly, you are not vanilla. I'm like, I'm so seen. I know I'm not vanilla, but I'm vanilla. Ish. You know, I'm in a heterosexual long term marriage.

But we also are curious about, you know, learning and continuing to grow. But this idea for people, especially who my. I seem to attract heteronormative couples is this idea that even expanding this conversation and talking about sex is a big deal. Because where heteronormativity gets a bad rap is they talk about nothing. It's for it's privacy, it's for the private. Or oh, it's below the waist is for somebody else. Or I can't even go and explain floor because of religion. Another woman just came into me with her, her religious background, you know, they have to hide everything. You just cut everything off and then boom, they're married. And they're supposed to be these sex queens. Well, how are they supposed to learn this exactly?

Dallas, what do you mean? It's funny because whether you were raised extremely. I mean, I love everything you're saying because whether you were raised extreme religion and you weren't allowed or just feeling like we should just know with the limited information that we get about sex, that's actually accurate. It's a challenge for a lot of vulvas. So how do we, how do we commit to you? So I'm just thinking about these women who are saying, it's for my husband. And then, yeah, the first session, she's not on your table. But maybe after a few you'd start to.

What we do is we start to build trust with the body that they can just tune and drop in. So I give them embodiment exercises and they have self touch homework. So in sexological body work, we call it orgasmic yoga practice because it's a practice. It's not like masturbation to get to climax. If a climax happens, wonderful. But we take a break from some of your habits. If there's over toy use over porn use, over fantasy use. We're about being with the body. Back to that mirror work that I did even before I did sexological body work. Just being able to be in the presence of. Because really we want to teach you to be in the presence of your brilliance and to like start to see yourself like this erotic sensual creature that just that you just want to touch. I mean, if you don't want to touch yourself, how can you expect your body to be welcoming the touch of another? So for one a person to have agency and to say, this is my body, this is not some dark hole down there, like, you know, vapid. It's like, no, let me take you on a tour of what really feels good to me. And that's a really sexy turn on when a woman is really empowered. So back to just beginning with some embodiment steps, some self touch homework. And then when a mapping happens, we always may have a goal for the mapping, but if the body says something different, it won't happen. One time I had the longest vulva hug in the world. And.

So when I began, I always teach couples and I always teach a woman to cup their vulva, to like give a little hug. We in psychological body work we call it vulva cupping. And now my signature pleasure muse is, is the vulva hug.

I love it.

Vulva hug your vulva.

Hashtag hug your vulva. Have you hugged your vulva today? I see the pictures. Yes, I have actually. With you.

Well, didn't I just. I sent you my little screensaver. Have you hugged your vulva today? For the phone. Yes. So we'll, we'll talk more about that in a second. But I was before we began, you know, getting grounding the body, all this stuff and so over the sheet asking permission, would it be okay check in with your body? And she said yes, but she was really distant. She was like with her eyes closed the whole time and it was kind of a yes. And I just said, you know, breathe into it and make sure that feels comfortable. So fine. So finally I felt like it was safe enough that I could touch her. But then I said, what do you need? She said, we can just Go on. And I could tell she wasn't really absorbing it. And I could tell from her, we can just go on that she's used to just being done to. Because she was not engaging with her eyes. She was just starting to like go off. And I asked her, I said, I said, before we do that, I just wanted to have you open your eyes and be with me for a minute. You know, I'm just here, I'm your sister. We're just here exploring and getting this information from your body. And I guided her breathing into her vulva. What does she notice about my hands? And then I said, does your vulva really want me to leave and just move on to the next thing? And she stayed quiet for, for a couple of minutes. And it was the hardest couple of minutes to not like, want to say anything. You need to give the space because for vulva to speak, she needs, she needs a little space because they're not used to being spoken to.

No. No one ever asks how she's doing, how's her day, what does she want? It's very rare to anyone. Yeah.

And she said, you know what, she wants you to stay there. She feels really comforted. I said, beautiful, thank you. Let's just stay here for a little bit. Then I started to do what's called somatic dialoguing, asking her, is there any messages that you have for your vulva? She started to go on and saying, I'm so sorry I've ignored you. I'm so sorry. That. And she was giving her list. And then when we went to what is your vulva have to say to you? I was like, I'm not kidding you. It was a 15 or a 16 minute vulva hug. My arm was hurting, but I was like, I am there with you, sister. But she started to say things like, she's growing up. She's going from a young woman right now underneath your hands. Like she's, she's feeling blossomed, she's feeling empowered, she's stepping into what she wants. And all of these amazing things were coming out of her mouth. And it was so incredible because that was just giving the space and time. And truly the whole session could have been complete right there. Because what she gained was enormous. And this is the power of. From that work is when I developed my whole vulva hug meditation offering that it's just really, really making a difference because it's just a quick check in with the body and. Or it can be a daily practice that can lead to a ritual. Like right now, I'm on day 18 of my vulva hug, a meditation ritual. Okay.

How do you feel?

I'm journaling afterwards. I understand meditation. Like, I felt it like maybe six times, but like, the other 20, 30, 40. The other times I'm trying to meditate, I just. My mind wanders. I would get antsy. And so I started to do it as a ritual in the morning, really grounding and cupping my vulva because I root in. It's like you're plugging in, like you're charging yourself. And all I can say is, what I also added in is I started adding in journaling afterwards. But when I'm rooting in, I actually feeling the connection, the warmth and feeling the body connection keeps me. Me there. That I can start to feel it energetically go up my spine. And I'm feeling kind of like that super highway to my higher self. And I don't know, Emily, it's.

Golly, that's.

It's like a drug for me right now. I'm, like, so into it. So I'm. I want to go as many days as possible. So I'll check in with you and let you know how many days I can go straight.

So here we are asking, you know, vulvas. People have vulvas to connect to it because we spend so much time hating on it, not liking it, thinking it's for somebody else, thinking we can't look, and it's all wrong. However, thinking about the culture at large, nobody celebrates the vulva. Like, if you think about it, like, everything's phallic, right? There's phallic buildings, and we all hail to the phallic structures. And the penis, the penis, all about the penis. But the vulva, when you mostly think about it, it's like, hidden. We don't. Well, it actually is kind of hidden because it's hidden near. Well, the vulva is not hidden. The vagina's hidden. But there's just. So it's always a receiver. It just gets downgraded and criticized. And we're obsessed with penis size and penis. Everything but vulvas are like this. This. This member of our society that just doesn't get any love. And when it does, it's usually sort of derogatory, or we're trying to control it, or we're trying to, you know, police it, or we're talking about how it looks funny. And so I just think, like, what other way are we going to be able to connect? Like, if we don't connect, if we don't have take Take control and have agency over our own vulva is like, who else is going to. Right? And so.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, where was this information in biology? Where. Who was going to teach us? When were they going to teach us? Were they going to teach us when we had our period? Were they going to teach us when we got out of high school, got into college, got our first. First job, got married, got divorced. Perry, I like. Unless I got on this path. Who are they? Who is they? They is us.

They is the women. It's the women. We supported women. So, yeah.

And so it's like, it's up to each individual woman to be like, I have a power center that's at the root. It's your first and your second chakra. It roots you, it grounds you, it accepts, expands your creativity. Like, that's journaling and vulva hugging and mapping. I always tell women, map get these skills because of the fact our bodies go through changes. So you're going to want to be able to go in and explore and heal. It's like layers of the onion. Right, Bob and John. Like, we need to just, like, heal.

Them out of our bodies. Get all the boys out of my vulva. Can we map them out of the vulva? So if I do the vulva map.

Yeah.

Dal, you mapped me years ago when you first started. But yes. Yeah, we're gonna.

We should revisit that again, because I think I've even gotten my skill set and what I offer.

It was, like, six years ago.

I think I was like, a very novel. I'm like, wow, Emily, you're trusting me with your vulva. I feel very indebted to you.

But what exactly happens during a vulva mapping? Let's get. Because I don't know if we really got right into it. So, like, for people who don't know, because I'm telling you, Dolly, most people don't know what that is.

No, it's a really new concept. It's a sexological bodywork concept where we are mapping point by point. So I'm taking my finger with my gloves, and we are going only with what the body is ready. So, like that vulva hug woman, If. If her body was done after that and she did not want me to explore, we would have been done because her body would have told us. Okay, so a vulva mapping, we're just going to the external genitalia. So vulva is the outside part. Yeah, so everybody says vagina. Right? We talked about that in the beginning. Like, no, we got to say vulva not vagina. So the vulva are the outer lips and the inner lips. And here's my little vulva puppet. And the clitoral hood and the front commissure and all of these yummy parts. And so they are like. Like these beautiful red curtains behind me. Our vulva is like the beautiful. Just colored, some darker, some pinker, some, you know, just more earthy. Just the beautiful curtains that cover all these treasures of our erectile beds. So I literally go point by point on the Mons Venus, which is the, you know, the part that covers the cubic.

Let me just clarify. You're lying on a massage table.

People are lying on a massage table. Okay.

They come in and the client that your. Your client is your Is lying.

Yes. And I do the sexological body work position, which is actually. You get on the massage table. I straddle the massage table. And then she will put her legs over my legs because then it supports my back and I can get at all of her bits. She's covered with a sheet. And then as she's ready, we can lift the sheet and we can go point by point. So we're checking the outer lips. Each of the outer lips, we're noticing the potential for pleasure, numbness, or any pain. We have the potential to remediate some of that. And we're looking at your pleasure meter, where as I continue this touch, do you have the potential for pleasure? We're collecting information, and people are often surprised at how one side has more pleasure than the other. Then as we can continue, then at a certain point, we get in different oils that are healing. Then the vulva takes so much time that typically we have to do a vaginal mapping another time. Sometimes we can get through it, but I'm dealing with stories that people are telling me. Things are coming up, tears are happening. Like I said, things are stored there, or people are just really surprised. But as I continue to move, they are doing what's called somatic learning. They're feeling, and they're having the felt experience as I'm touching. And they are moving through, understanding their anatomy. They're connecting with it. So we find their treasure spots. We just find the juicy spots. They're like, okay, this is where you want to go, and this is where you know you can go. We discover so many things. The clitoral shaft. When hallelujah. Like, oh, praise the clitoral shaft. When I discovered this little popping sensation for my own body. Some vulvas hate it, but we just try it all to see what they like. Because they don't even know. They're like, what, I have a shaft? Yes, my dear, you have a shaft. If you were a different chromosome, it would have become your penis shaft. You have a clitoral shaft. But every. We have all the parts, but things look different. There might be a very pronounced clitoral glands or the head. It might just be a little speck. So we're looking. I'll have a flashlight and a mirror. And sometimes they'll sit up and. And they'll look themselves. But I literally, truly like the first time to be a felt experience that they just have the opportunity to feel and not look. Sometimes when women look, then the judgments start rolling in.

That's great. I think that's such a good practice to not look. I don't think I looked at you, but I remember you saying, oh, there's your clitoris and there's. You're going around. And I remember I was surprised to find that on one side there was more. There was like a little bit of pain. And I don't. I don't have experience. Experience pain much with. At all in the past. I have. It's whatever. I don't experience a lot of pain with sex, but ongoing chronic pain with sex. But I remember feeling like, oh, that spot was tender. Like, I thought, oh, okay, that's something to pay attention to. So. So, I mean, I think it's. So when you're saying that a lot comes up for people when you're doing this. Is this like people say trauma stored in your body, which I believe. Are you saying that when you do this work, sometimes they're just the tears because maybe they've never received this of kind, Kind of touch. They've never paid this kind of attention. Or do they remember things? Traumas, memories?

It's a lot of memories. One time I had a couple, a wonderful couple. And actually.

She had just recently shared with him about a rape that happened to her right before they got married. And they wanted to come and heal some of that. And he. She wanted him to be in the room so he sat in the chair and, and like, things that she remembered saying during that time were coming up and she really wanted him. Like, at a certain point she said, can I just want him to hold my hand to help her get through that? You know, because they, they. They were just such a great partnership. And the things of that rape surfaced and we could unwind it, but other things just might happen from a childbirth or from rough sex or.

You don't know why. I mean, me I had so much pain. The first person to vaginal map me. I was in my sex logical body work school. I had Jason, my husband, and he's like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, oh, I'm going to read the directions. I'm going to show you some videos. And he put his finger in this one spot inside of my vagina. And I was like, what, what do I do? I'm like, don't move your finger. Just stay there. And literally he held his finger and it just like the presence, he. I could feel it. He could feel it. Unwinding, the unwinding. And so. So you can feel the unwinding. And when we continue to touch where stories. Sometimes people just cry and they don't know why. So they're. They just. They just feel sensitive. They feel emotion, they feel compassion. They feel bad for themselves that they've ignored their bodies.

A lot of the women especially though, who come in are like in their 40s or 50s. They're like, the kids, they're a little more grown up or they're going through a divorce or they're wanting to save their marriage. And they just say, you know what? I am going to take this time and I'm going to learn about my body. But then, remember, Covid happened and I couldn't work.

Right. I know. I was like, right? I know.

But dude, you. And I went on that walk and I was trying to do this vulva mapping one person at a time. And I was like, oh, wow, the online zoom mappings. I don't even need to see genitals. I just need to be with you. I just need to see your face. Just like I'm seeing your face here and I'm guiding you and you're discovering. It was so powerful. And what I loved about it is that I actually shifted this, my attachment to my hands on the body to like, oh, my God, this is so powerful. I'm getting the women to touch themselves. That's.

Yes, exactly. I remember this. I think. Yeah, I remember.

But I was telling you, I was saying these mappings are taking 90 minutes to sometimes two hours. And you said, dolly, can you make a video that it's more accessible for more people so you don't have to give your time, but you just do this video. So you helped inspire my online course. Oh, so that was on that walk, remember? Over the grove?

I totally remember that. We're like walking through Covid with our masks on and I like, gosh, I mean, yeah, you do heal. So with your hands. But. So how's that going then? The course is amazing, right? People can do you. So you can do this. So everyone could hear Dolly and you walk them through. They can map themselves with this guidance.

This course is a premium course. I beta tested it recently and it's going to be out in the new year again. Because it's 14 hours of my. Like, when I look at the work that I do with a person, private client, that takes me about 14 hours to get through. I. I've collapsed it to four hours. Four. That's still a lot. But this is why this is a premium product. So you can either reserve five days of your life and do it, you know, an hour, hour and a half, a day, or five weeks. Because it's a journey. Like, you can't just go to, like, map yourself and then an hour later go vaginally nap yourself. You have to. It's a process.

We don't want to take the time as a thing. I know we were talking about this and you. You were saying it's long and a lot of us, we just want to. We all want quick fixes. We all want to be able to go in. I got Volvo mapped and now I'm ready to go. But all the things I talk about, we talk about on the show. Everything. Healthy communication, masturbation. All the things that we talk about is a practice. Anything that's worth having takes time. So it also. It's years of undoing things in the other way. Maybe you were just receiving sex or you've just been sitting with pain. So. So this is like work that is so worthwhile. I mean, I'm sure you have incredible stories from women who have just. And couples that you feel. I know you have.

Yeah. I think in my online course, my vulva mapping, Do it yourself is like 75 minutes. And if I've gotten anything, it's that women don't want to finish it. And it's just what you're saying. And I. And it makes. It makes me. So this is why, you know, get it. You know, supporting them and creating the things that. To help them complete. It is my job to figure out how I can make it more applicable. But I really challenge every woman out there listening. I challenge every man out there listening. Anybody who loves a vulva, okay. That the time that a woman needs to be and to cherish and to worship her fucking life force. I mean, this is like our powerhouse. All of it's just amazing. And we dismiss it. Like you said earlier, you know, we Make. No, it drives me crazy when I hear people say, oh, don't be such a pussy. You know what? It's. It's an honor to be a pussy because it's so pussy. It's so powerful. Like, Emily, your show, it's so pussy. My vulva mapping, it's so pussy. And I mean that like. Like, let's celebrate it. Stop with the pejorative. You know, stop. And so this whole idea of the time that it takes a woman taking the time, and this is why women who are in more excruciating pain, they want to get out of that pain so they're more willing to take the time. Do you see what I'm saying? You see the difference? If you have a little bit or, oh, I can get through it. Oh, I can fake an orgasm. I. Oh, I can. I know how to get myself off. Oh, just put lube and you can go in. You know, over time, that's going to build up to just not feeling much. And you're just. You're doing yourself a disservice.

You really are. That's so true, Dolly, that we feel. It's like we have to be on fire. It has to be, like, super painful for us to come in.

Like.

But we're telling you that if it's just faking orgasms or it's not having any pleasure or just taking one for the team and having sex with your partner, that is a level of pain that you don't have to live with. It might be more of an emotional pain. It might be more like a repressed pain because you're like, you've convinced yourself that that's okay, but no one has to live that way. And women, we spend so much time get, you know, on our outer. Right presence, you know, myself included, right? All the things I do to be ready externally, but in, you know, what's going on with our bodies is going to give you so much more pleasure and purpose and connection than anything else you can do. Like, that other stuff doesn't matter. Once you are more connected to your power source. It is your power source.

It's true.

Like, it's.

It's. It's so true. I was doing a vulva mapping just a couple of days ago, and we were exploring the outer lip, and we're going up and down, and she was feeling more pleasure higher because it's connecting kind of with her clitoral structure underneath. But the more then when we started to get into here, down here, on the outer kind of part of the inner and the outer is your vestibular bulbs, which is also part of the clitoral structure. But when engorgement happens, they balloon open, they swell up, and that's what helps the curtains part so that it can part up. I just brought my finger down here and she was, oh my gosh, that feels so different. So we allowed some time and some different touch and some oil. And she says, oh, my goodness. So when you can connect with different parts of your anatomy, you can visualize it during sex. So now she's going to have this experience of like, oh, this is what that is. When they're bouncy, when they're buoyant, then it's going to be more ready to receive. Because look, here's my floppy.

It's a floppy penis.

It's a floppy penis. And I teach the. I do a lot of teachings with this. But what I want to show is like, who would expect a non erect penis to be dtf.

If it's a floppy. It's not ready.

It's not ready.

But yet we expect the vulva in its non engorged state to be ready. Now I love the floppies. Like all penises and all their incarnations need love because they can feel. And that's another thing women feel like they shouldn't touch a penis unless it's erect. No go.

Oh, I love. Yeah, we gotta teach this. I got it.

We gotta teach us. Go, go. My. My equivalent for the vulva hug is go do a cuddle.

A cock cuddle. I love all of that Dali. But it's true. Like we. The thing is, we see penises. We. Okay, this is heterosexual relationships. Hetero, Definitely a heteronormative statement. But if you live with a penis or you know, a penis or you sex of the penis, we usually, a lot of times we just see it when it's erect, right? Like we just. Then we like, oh, God, I guess I got to go now. Because the penises, you know, get spontaneously aroused and we get aroused in different ways. But I want to kind of like put a go back to what you're saying here is that like the vulva most of the time and the vagina is not awake. It's floppy in its own way. It's.

It's floppy in its own way.

It's floppy.

Non erect.

Non erect.

Now our clitoral shaft can get erect. This is. I'm sure you've talked with other people like her or erection or like there's all these different names, right? A lady bone or all those Things. That's because your clitoral shaft will actually go raise up. And also, when you are aroused, your anatomy starts to move up to create more space so that your cervix can lift. Oh, my gosh. One time I had a woman, she was not feeling much in her. We were actually. Were able to do a vaginal mapping. And she was like, it was pretty non anything. And then I touched her cervix and she was like, oh, my God. And these tears started flooding. And her story of like, I just make myself available. I'm that girl who just wants to. Who just wants to, you know, be dtf. And so I just want to. I just get it going. And I make myself so available. And her cervix was in so much pain. And we started dialoguing and she started to apologize to her cervix that she would put her through these situations. I am not kidding you. Her cervix moved. My finger was just on it. And her cervix moved back. And I looked her. She looked at. I was like, did you feel that? She's like, yes. And then I move my fingers and see, there's more space. It literally moved back under my finger.

Oh, my God.

I know. She was. She was apologizing to it and having a moment. I mean, this is the power of somatic healing. You have to feel it. You can't think it. I can't tell you. You know, apologize to your cervix and it'll move back. Like, you have to feel it.

Sorry for all those bad decisions. You have to feel it. You have to feel it. And that's what we're talking about today. I want you all to feel into your body. Do these practices when we talk. You know, I can talk to people and tell them all the time what, you know, what my recommendations. But this is just such a. Yeah. Somatic presence. Mindfulness, Being mindful about your body. And just. If you're already going to masturbate, you might as well, like, slow it down. I mean, I often say masturbate without the goal of orgasm, but the goal of exploration, which is now we're getting deeper into something that, you know, the exploration part is what you're offering here.

Absolutely. And you know, what I like to offer, too, is just this idea of the difference of orgasm versus climax.

Oh, okay, let's talk about that. Yes.

Because traditionally orgasm is considered like, the peak. Right. But because this exploration of the body, if we expand our erotic vocabulary to include orgasmicity, then we're Just trying to create a body or sensations in our body, in our neck, wherever any parts that orgasmicity can start building presence. So if you think of your pleasure meter, the pleasure meter, a 10 is a climax. So what a climax is, is when the triangular muscles of your vaginal opening of your introitus, when they contract because all the blood has been surrounded because you're aroused, you're engorged, all your erectile tissues engorged. So the peak moment when you're at the 10, those muscles are contracting re releasing the blood back out. That's the ultimate peak. So I like to say climax and then I like to say say play around with your orgasmicity and play at the 6 and the 7 at the 8 of your pleasure meter.

So it's like the edging.

Yeah, it's a little bit of the edging. But then there's things that you can find that feel orgasmic throughout the day that you can continue to let build up. So then you have more choice. So we're just expanding the menu.

You're talking about pleasure o meter during sex. And that's so important because what you're saying is that by delaying your orgasm and living in the climax, you'll start to. It starts to expand, if you will.

Living in your orgasmicity or another way to say it, when you live in an orgasmic state, then you're. You can access pleasure more so that when you do reach the crescendo, when you do reach the peak of climax, it can even be better and bigger.

So how do we live in a more orgasmic state?

This, my dear, is the foundation of our work, of my work. This is embodiment. And people think, oh, what the heck is embodiment? And it's simple. I'm going to tell it to you and you're going to think it's so simple. It's breath, it's movement, it's sound, it's touch and it's placement of awareness or focus.

So it's our senses elevated.

It's. It's our senses, but it's being active. It's not being, it's. It's bringing active breath, it's bringing active sound, it's bringing touch. This is why in the beginning with my clients, bringing them and teaching them to do an embodied self touch, practice putting aside all your quick go to's. Awesome. I don't judge them. It's great that you know that your body has this access. I love it. But let's try something else. So layering in the touch and actually having the breath and the movement in your body because you can feel more. So it's like having a bite of chocolate. You take a bite of a chocolate bar, you just crunch. It.

Tastes a little waxy. But if I just tell you right now to just think about chocolate, Emily, to think about the smell of chocolate. And then if I were to present a chocolate in front of your nose and you smelled it. We have erectile, you know. Yeah. In our nose and the ear. That whole oral things of the ears. But if you slow things down, it's pacing, too. The pillars of embodiment don't say slow it down, people. But if you want to relax and feel possibility, you have to relax. So it's accessing that parasympathetic nervous system. So the breath, when I tell you a, slow down your breath. We're shallow breathers. Our breath, naturally, for many people, stays up on top. But if it goes down, extending into your belly, and your exhale is longer and you can start going.

And then bringing in some movement and then playing with touch, touching over your clothes, over your underwear, and then seeing what it's like, you know, with hand, directly to skin. So playing with these things, but bringing in this concept of all of those pillars of embodiment, it slows you down. And I know it seems simple, but again, it's about people taking the time to do it. But my clients who do their homework, huge breakthroughs. The clients who don't, they're like, it worked really well when I was in the office with you, but I haven't, you know, it hasn't stuck with, well, what have you done? I don't have time.

It's time. It is. Well, yes, we all don't have time, but we. But what they realize is that you're getting time back by taking the time to prioritize your own body, prioritize your pleasure, think about what's important to you. We just assume, you know, just all of our preconceived notions about sex and connection. It just should happen without any effort. And I want to talk about, like, living in the masculine and a masculine society. We all have masculine, feminine. Like, we started at the top of show. You were at the top of our interview. You were talking about how you lived in your masculine more. But I think a lot of us, we need to learn to. This is the feminine practice, the practice.

Of being.

Embodied and effeminate.

I want to say a woman, but having a vulva.

So it's. Yeah, absolutely. And it's the Ability to relax. Emily. I get an acupuncture appointment. I literally get aroused.

Acupuncture?

How?

I just kept happening. I would say, Jason, oh my God, it's happening again. Are you home? I'm totally turned on after my acupuncture appointment because it just slows down my body and I can feel like all. I can feel this opening. I just think it's slowing down. I'm accessing my parasympathetic nervous system and because I just can surrender and I kind of like let go. It's a little meditative to me. I just wake up and I start getting all this energy in my vulva. But I also think it's because I've had years of practice of doing all this stuff.

Yeah, it is practice. It's all a practice, you guys. Meditation, all of it is a practice. But a practice that's worth really. I don't know what else is more important and talking from someone who knows all this stuff intellectually and then sometimes don't always take the time for myself. So it's, you know, you can get started on this journey just by even just remembering the show or playing it back to yourself or just saying like, next time, like, what would be a quick tip? Next time you were touching yourself. Slow it down. Go five times slower. Breathe, right? Breathe. Where do you think you know your. Move your fingers slowly. Think about the sensations. Right. Dali, you can walk to people like on your site. They can check out your course, right?

Yes. What's exciting is I'm finally making available so now for the holidays, I'm launching this, but it's going to be available all the time. It's plug in for the holidays. The vulva hug meditation. So I'm guiding you through a 25 minute gorgeous thing. You can just grab it as a present to yourself and then, you know, a few weeks later into the new year, there'll be my embodiment one on one. There'll be also body anchor meditation. There are some people who may not be ready for the vulva hug. They might need to create some safety in their body before they go to touch their genitals, you know, so that is. And this is what I'm saying, listening to your body, not just like, I'm just going to go there because Dolly or Emily said it like, is your body ready for it? And then, yes, my touch, feel, connect online vulva mapping course course for those who really want to take some luxurious time. And the way I would say how you can experience pleasure in your body is Just savor the chocolate in your mouth. Let it melt, suck the chocolate. Feel when your body like emerges into the hot water of a bath. Take a bath, don't shower. Like literally just feel the water surround your body. Go get massages. If you can't get to a sexological body worker, start getting used to feeling touch. Look at how touch starved we are. Our bodies need it because of the oxytocin. This is why my vulva hug meditation is so powerful. Because you are just sending all the self love and you're accessing all this oxytocin. Since I've been doing this practice, Jason, my husband, it's just like wow, you're just showing up so much more present.

I, I'm dealing with perimenopause too. So I'm like, sometimes like I was like so angry about things but I'm telling you this is balancing me because he says, he says, wow, you didn't get angry at that. I know, I'm like, okay, my low estrogen is chilled out because I've rebooted my body with a little extra oxygen oxytocin from this vulva hug. There are things that we can do right now and really two things. What is your intention and how can you pay attention? Okay, your body is craving you. I know it sounds sexy like oh, this date, that date. Like you know Emily and I are teasing about this but really who? Your body, whether you're a penis owner or a vulva owner wants your attention. So pay attention to it and bring a good intention in your self touch to have curiosity and exploration.

Yeah, just curiosity. That's a great one. Thank you Dolly. That is. So one more question for you is what would you say? We talked about how you could have more pleasure, but what would you say are the pleasure thieves? Like what's stealing our pleasure? So we can look at if we're like, well I'll do that. But what do you see as people? I guess it's having the busyness of day to day life. The phone, the worry, the shame.

I think what's stealing people is an addiction to dopamine. Okay, so dopamine is the quick fixes when you get the likes on your, your social media stuff. When you can just pop on porn and see you know, 20 different bodies or 2,000 different bodies in X amount of time. Like just this overstimulation, it's just activating the dopamine. Dopamine, Dopamine, it's a pleasure center. Yes, it feels good in the moment, but it's A quick high and it's a quick burn. And so that actually is making. It's fooling people to think that that's pleasure.

It's like artificial.

It's artificial. And so you're robbing yourself of feeling the full experience of your oxytocin and nitric oxide and dopamine, the combination, you know, after my. My clients try the hugging or the, you know, embodied self touch, they start to feel more floaty. Like when you're embodied and you're feeling really yummy. If you've ever had, like an amazing making love session with a partner or with yourself and you're just kind of like, you feel a little. You feel almost drunk for like a couple of hours.

Yes.

That's. Yeah. That's when you've activated all of your pleasure hormones. And that's when you're fully, like, just like. Oh, you're just tousled and sensual. It's the best. And when you don't and you just rub out a quick one or you have a quick, quick sex, it's like, that was great. But then there's an intensity that can show up in your life. 20 or 30 minutes later, you feel, like, more intense. Does that make sense?

That does make sense. It's great. Dolly, thank you so much. I am. I think that you're doing such important work, and I love that you've been able to bring it online so everybody can access what you're doing. Because I think. I think that it's time. I think that it's time for everyone. As a vulva woman, however you identify or you're born in your life, it's really important just to slow it down, to take a look, do your own mirror exercises. At least hug your vulva today. Hug the vulva life that you love. So, Dolly, I want to ask you the five questions we ask all of our guests. The quickie questions.

Yes.

All right.

What's your biggest turn on.

Anticipation?

Biggest turnoff?

Disembodiment.

What makes good sex?

Slowness.

Something you would tell your younger self about sex and relationships.

My younger self? That you don't have to.

Do certain things to earn acceptance.

What's the number one thing you wish everyone knew about sex?

That learning and expanding your knowledge and your erratic erotic vocabulary. And.

That is just a lifelong journey. And get on the ride and just to get curious.

Get curious. I love it. Dolly. Thank you so much. Where can people find you?

They can find me@pleasure muse.com and I also have Instagram at Pleasure Muse. And I think Perhaps on the sexologicalbodyworkers.org website where you can find certified sexological body workers.

For those of you who are interested, Dolly's going to lead us in a guided vulva penis hug meditation. If you aren't in the right place to meditate now but you want to do this later, feel free to pause the episode and come back to it next time you're home.

Home.

Okay, how should we start, Dolly?

So I want you just to get a sense of the seat underneath you.

Feeling your feet just on the ground and just bringing your awareness to your sit bones in the chair. If you're able to lean back into the chair, that would be really great. And just allow your legs to open up just a little bit. I'm going to guide you into a deep breath.

Noticing where your breath lands. And the most important thing is to have your exhalation be longer. So I'm going to guide you in. We'll just do a couple of these. Counting to three and exhaling to four. So 1, 2, 3, pause and exhale. 2, 3, 4.

Good, do that again. 2, 3.

And exhale.

I just want you to do a little squeeze of your pelvic floor, your PC muscle, like you're holding back from pain. Squeeze and release it. Don't hold it. Just saying hello to your vulva, inviting her to the conversation.

And having a thought. Just kind of checking in with her. Would it be okay to give you a hug? Would it be okay to give it a little connection? If you get a strong no, just stay breathing with your hands on your lap. But if you get a yes, I want you just to do a couple little drive bys and you might have to angle your body. Like I'm going to move into more of a low rider position so I can angle and actually cut my whole hand over my vulva. So using your dominant hand, if she was a yes. After you've just kind of warmed it up and then I'm putting my dominant hand down first with my second hand.

Close your eyes and just settle in. Adjust your hand until you find the place that's just right.

Going over the edge of the pubic bone down towards your perineum. Just holding, not worrying about the anatomy really, just feeling a sense for the warmth of your hand or maybe coolness.

Taking in three breaths here.

Giving a little squeeze of your pelvic floor. Again, if you would like.

Noticing if that warmth hugging your vulva is expanded. If you're feeling a little bit more rooted, a little bit more grounded.

Connecting your body.

With your Mind with your soul. Just a way to kind of drop in quickly, connecting with your life force.

Just wanting to give you a taste of this because we could go on for 15 minutes and just be quiet, but and have your energy move up your spine at the top of your head.

Just give her another little squeeze before you thank her in your mind. Thanking her for letting you visit with her.

And that it's important.

For you to start, just to begin a dialogue, building a bridge that you want to know more about what she wants.

Your team.

Seeing if she has any messages for you.

And then when you're ready, kind of moving your feet, bringing some awareness back into your body, ever so gently lifting your first hand and then your second hand because the temperature will shift.

What did you notice?

I noticed that I feel definitely calmed my whole body.

And it was warm and that she was hungry. She was hungry.

Yeah.

She wanted a little bit more. She wanted you to stay there a little longer.

I love it. Thank you so much, Dolly, for being here. It's great to see you.

Thank you, Emily.

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