Episode 106: Quiet & Effective Networking with Lori Saitz

And welcome everyone to the Weekly Yes And Podcast. I'm your host, Travis Thomas, the host of the Weekly Yap and the creator of Live Yes And. That's liveyesand.com. You can follow me on social media @LiveYesAnd. I'm on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter, mostly Instagram, just because I like to embarrass my 16-year-old daughter. So welcome. This is episode 106. We are talking to speaker, author, coach Lori Seitz, and Lori Seitz is the creator of Zen Rabbit. Zen Rabbit is a service that she provides, and her specialty is helping really quiet people, but really, as we get into this interview, you'll find out it's any of us Who are uncomfortable, especially in networking situations. Now again, I'm someone who performs on stage, I speak, I do improv comedy, which can be nerve-wracking, but I love it. But you put me into a networking situation and it drives me crazy. I'm nervous, I don't want to approach people, it's just really uncomfortable. And so what I love about Lori and what we're talking about today is I think this is a skill set and, you know, In a topic that most of us relate to. And so again, Lori, her website is zenrabbit.com. She has a book coming out, we'll talk about that. And it's fun just to kind of dig in and get some tips and ideas of how we can feel more comfortable and authentic when it comes to networking and being in social situations. So without further ado, let's jump into episode 106 of the Weekly Yes Am podcast. Please welcome to the weekly Yes! And podcast, Lori Saitz. Lori, how are we doing today?

Doing very well. Thanks so much for having me.

Lori, it's a pleasure. Now, you and I were connected with one another through a very good friend of both of ours. And so if Evan recommends that I connect with someone, it's just a done deal. So it's a— I know you and I have spoken before, so it's a pleasure to get you on the podcast.

Yeah, exactly. I feel the same way about Evan. If he says talk to this person, I'm gonna do it.

Well, let's, uh, let's fill the audience in. Um, Lori, tell us, tell us what Zen Rabbit is, is all about and, and what you currently do. You've done a lot of stuff and we'll get into that, but what are you currently focusing on?

Yeah, Zen Rabbit is essentially networking strategies For quiet people.

Yes, yes. It's funny you say network strategies, and I'm sure people are going, yeah, yeah, yeah, network strategies. But then you add the quiet people, for quiet people, and I think people's ears perk up a little bit. Tell us about that.

Yeah, well, being a quiet person myself, it's, uh, it's— I have some experience in having to Go out and network and figure out how to feel comfortable walking into a room where you don't know anybody and starting conversations for the sake of your business, your career. And so I learned how to manage those kinds of situations, and now I feel compelled to turn around and help other people who may be struggling with the anxiety and the apprehension and the fear of how to manage those situations.

So you speak from experience. This is something that you were challenged with yourself and now sort of being on the other side, you get to share some of those tools and secrets with others.

Exactly. I think the difference is— so yes, of course there are a lot of people We talk about networking and how to manage, you know, how to be better at networking. But when you're talking to somebody who has this, this kind of fear, who's a little bit more on the quiet side, you cannot just say, oh, well, just walk into the room and just force yourself to do it. Like, that doesn't work. And then there are other elements to be managed. One in particular is how do you manage your energy? And I think that piece is the part that is missing from a lot of what other people are talking about.

I'm guessing most people that are listening to this probably put themselves in the quiet person category, whether that means they're an introvert or an extrovert. They're probably thinking, yeah, I can relate to that. I know myself included, I can relate walking into a networking situation where even though I do improv comedy and I do speaking, I have no desire to sort of walk into that room And, and, you know, how to make those awkward connections. Uh, as you've been doing it for all these years, when did you realize that you had sort of stumbled upon something that, that worked for you?

Yeah, that's an interesting— I'm not sure there was a specific, like, day that I marked in my calendar. Um, it just kind of It occurred to me that it wasn't as scary anymore one day after doing it for a while.

Yeah.

I think that a lot of people who may be in similar situations or who feel the same way can force themselves to do it. And the more you do it, the better you become at it. And so eventually, if it's important to you to do, you will figure it out. But what I offer is kind of a shortcut.

Right.

And make it a little bit less painful. So I think it was just a matter of time that, yeah, over time I became more comfortable in that situation. And now it's so interesting because people will see me and think, well, there's no possible way you're a quiet person. Like, you present yourself as more Extroverted. I don't really like that term, but more outgoing, more comfortable there. And yes, I am more comfortable, but I still— inside, there's still situations and events that I'll go to where I don't know anybody and I'll just feel really uncomfortable. And I'll still go, but inside I do not feel comfortable.

Right. So at this point you've gotten really good, you know, you're able to carry yourself very confidently and very comfortably. But I guess the discomfort of the whole networking still exists.

Yes, exactly. That's the case for a lot of people who are going to be in that room where if you're the one who is not comfortable yet and you look around that room and it looks like everybody knows somebody, everybody's involved in a conversation already, and you're the only one who doesn't know anybody. That's how it feels. The truth of the matter is that there are probably 50% of the people in that room who feel the same way you do. You just can't see it.

Right, right. No, absolutely. I think we always assume that everyone else in the room is comfortable, we're the only one who is not. You wish you could walk around with your hand up or something just to signal to everyone, hey, I'm as uncomfortable as you are.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is this something, Lori, that sort of this, you know, being quiet, right? Has this been a part, you know, sort of of your whole life?

Yes. All of my report cards said Lori is very bright, but she needs to learn how to speak up in class. So, yeah, this has been something that is a characteristic, I think, that You're not going to become— and I don't tell people or recommend people to become something you're not. It's a characteristic like having blue eyes or, you know, brown hair, whatever it is. It's a characteristic not to be changed. It's part of who you are.

Right.

It's a matter of figuring out how to— what's the word I'm looking for? How to Use that characteristic as a strength because it can be a strength.

Sure.

Absolutely. It's a matter of recognizing that.

Exactly. I think sometimes it's the difference between understanding that it's not about changing a personality but recognizing that there are times where we need to speak up to share an idea or to share our voice or to be heard because what you have to share is so valuable. Again, it's still not about changing someone's personality. But giving them, I guess, maybe the comfort and the courage to speak up in those times when they're needed.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And to recognize the strengths that come with being a quiet person. Quiet people are fantastic at listening, and that is a key component of being good at networking.

Right, right. And you take some blabbermouth like me who just talks all the time, we miss 75% of all the information. Just ask my wife, right? She's like, wow, I just told you that. Or, you know, yeah, improvisation was my tool. It took me many years on stage as an improviser to actually become a better listener because I was always concerned about what I was going to be saying. And yes, a quiet person, they're probably doing much more listening than they are talking.

Yeah, that is a key component of being good at networking.

So, Lori, tell me, for someone who saw herself as being shy and quiet, you go to college and you decide to become a broadcast major. Was that an intentional ploy to force you outside of your comfort zone? Where did that come from? Obviously, with Live Yes! And, we're all about your growth zone being outside your comfort zone. But where did that motivation come from for you?

Yeah, no, I wasn't thinking that strategically at all. 18.

Yeah.

I, I just was always drawn to— I, I think it has some— I don't know exactly. I always loved the idea of broadcasting. Actually, when I was in high school, I did not really an internship. I did some volunteer work at a local community Based TV station. And I just fell in love with the whole medium of broadcast, and that's what drove me to become a broadcast major in, in college. But I— and then before I even graduated, I ended up changing my major to more public relations, public communications. But I've always loved broadcast, radio, TV. I mean, ultimately I wanted to be on TV. Katie Couric is my girl.

Yeah.

I love Katie, and I wanted to follow in her footsteps. And so that's not exactly what happened. I ended up spending a lot more time in radio. And then a few, maybe, what was it, 15? I can't believe it. Maybe 20 years ago, I actually got to do some on-air radio stuff when I lived in South Florida. But it's really interesting because a lot of broadcasters in radio, TV, and you mentioned professional speakers, feel particularly comfortable behind the microphone, behind the camera, on the stage. But once they have to get into a crowd of people where they don't know anybody, they feel very uncomfortable.

Right. So how did you, as again, you mentioned, you're 18 years old going to college, and now you're thrusting yourself into a medium where you're either in front of the camera, you're behind the microphone. How did you deal with that, you know, that fear, and have the courage to kind of push through that?

It was so much fun for me. I wanted to Do that so much that I— it did not really matter. I just went and did it. I did not spend that much time in front of the camera on the TV side. It was more the radio side that the opportunity was there for me. And so, behind the mic in a radio station, nobody is seeing you. I mean, I was playing music, so I had to play all the stuff I like to listen to. So it was just fun. It was just like playing.

Right.

And nobody could see me. So there was that.

And you mentioned— I'm sorry, go ahead.

Oh, I was just going to say that was a little bit of a safety net because it wasn't like I was putting myself out in front of people. In the radio aspect.

So there's still kind of that idea that you're still at least hidden a little bit visually, if not being heard.

Yeah, exactly.

Right, because you have no idea how sloppily dressed I am right now as we do this podcast.

Right.

And even though I know you're in beautiful sunny California and I'm in a teenage girl's bedroom, doing this podcast, which sounds really awkward, but she's my niece and this is the only private room I have in the house right now to conduct this interview. But yeah, there's at least a layer of anonymity there that you don't have in front of the camera.

Right, exactly. When you talk about putting yourself out in networking situations, it's It feels very vulnerable.

Yeah.

You stand in front of somebody and you feel like they may be judging you. And what if you say the wrong thing? Or what if you have spinach in your teeth and they don't tell you? Or it just feels very like you're putting yourself in a somewhat dangerous situation.

Yeah. And here's my thing with networking, because I know you and I have spoken offline and I've agreed That even though I'm comfortable in most social situations, any networking event that I go to, I just really despise it. And I think the thing for me that is so uncomfortable is because it is a networking event, everyone is there to network or to kind of share or promote what they represent, which in one respect should make everyone comfortable because we all know we're there for the same reason. But at the same time, I think I struggle with trying to have authentic conversations that don't feel like I'm just listening long enough to tell you about me. How have you dealt with that?

We need to reexamine what the definition of networking. And yes, it could be what you just described or what you just shared. I tend to look at it more as networking is the basis for starting a relationship. So, networking event, for example, you're there to start conversations. And if you can make it a more interesting conversation, which is something that I work with people on, like, do you turn it into something more interesting? Because again, quiet people, and I think even Some non-quiet people have no patience for or tolerance for those superficial conversations like, oh, nice weather we're having.

Right.

You know, how's Mexico doing in the World Cup? It's not interesting. So if you could turn it into something more substantial and make it a more interesting conversation, but really it comes back to Why does networking have to be superficial? It doesn't. And why does it have to be you just waiting for an opportunity to tell me what to do? It could be much more building of a relationship. It's the foundation for a relationship. So, we're just starting a conversation, just like we did when you mentioned we talked offline. We'd never talked before, but we got into a really good conversation. 'Cause we're just exploring, getting to know each other.

Right.

And that's really what networking is and can be. And that's when it becomes really beneficial, 'cause I don't know where this relationship could go with this new person I'm talking to. Maybe they'll become a client. Maybe I have something— they have something to sell me, but maybe they'll become a tennis partner. I don't know. It could be anything.

And so, Lori, what are a few of those skills? You know, again, you're talking about it's all about creating a relationship with someone. So, so what are some of those skills? And so if we were to take this, you know, even just for a second, let's take this out of a professional networking situation. And, you know, we're, we're talking about these skills just quote unquote in the real world. You know, what is that? What, what are, you know, what are those 3 or 4 skills that That make for really being able to create the relationship side of things?

First, it's a matter of listening, as we touched on already. Really paying attention to what the other person is saying and being in the moment, as opposed to waiting for them to stop talking. You could start talking.

Right.

And being in the moment, listening to what they're saying. But not just listening to what they're saying, but also asking them better questions to get them to talk about something that you might be interested in. It's really that initial conversation, whether it's at a business networking event or a social party. You're looking for commonalities. What do you and I have in common that we could talk about, that we could be excited about sharing information with each other?

Yeah.

And so, yeah, asking questions that are more substantial. So, for example, a couple of the questions that I sometimes recommend is, depending on the time of year, are you going anywhere interesting for summer vacation?

Right.

Any plans? What are you— any good books on your summer reading list? Things that get people excited to talk about, finding out what excites people, intrigues them, what is interesting for them beyond necessarily what their job is.

Right, right. So you're really trying to get them, it sounds like, to engage more deeply with maybe their authentic self beyond just what professional service they provide.

Right, right. And I've been in presentations, as I've been on a stage presenting, and I like to get interaction from the audience members. And we always talk about inevitably, almost everywhere you go, somebody's going to say, so what do you do? And how can you prepare to answer that question so you're not caught off guard like a deer in headlights? But in some places, not necessarily— well, some places outside of the U.S., but also within the U.S., on where— what state you might be in, that the way people answer that question is different. And so, on the East Coast especially, that question is, what do you do as your job?

Hmm.

That's the implied. And I've heard that in some places in California, for example, people are expecting you to answer that with, Oh, I surf and do yoga. Like, it's not— they're not looking for the business answer. They're looking for what do you love doing in your free time, kind of.

Gotcha.

Yeah. And so it's free to answer it however you want. Even if you're on the East Coast and you kind of know they're looking for the business answer, you can throw people off guard and say, you know, I love kayaking and And '70s music. But that's how you can go a little bit deeper in— first of all, maybe not asking a question in that way. You know, not asking the what do you do question, asking— turning it around and asking something more interesting. But if you are the recipient of that question, you don't necessarily have to answer it in the way You think the other person is expecting you to answer it.

Right. It's my sense that these skills that we're talking about really aren't just about networking. It goes far deeper really into society as far as how we are able— you mentioned the word connection— how we're able to connect with people, relate with each other. You look at what's going on in the United States, in the world, there is a tremendous opportunity for connection. For empathy, for the ability to see something from the other person's perspective. How has this work for you sort of had an impact on your own relationships?

Good question. Well, for one thing, I have made amazing connections at networking events just by being open to where it could go. So again, you know, maybe I'm not seeing how we could do business together right away, if at all, but being open to building a relationship and coming away with really good friends.

Right.

Or, or people who, okay, maybe we didn't have that much in common that we're not going to become friends, but we're resources. In fact, I got an email this morning from a woman who I met at— we've run into each other at several networking events now, and she sent me an article. Hey, I thought you would be interested in this. And it is like, yeah, thanks for the heads up on this. So it's, it's because we had a real conversation. that she thought of me and sent me this article.

Yeah.

So you don't know. She provided me with an excellent resource and I appreciate that.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, improvisationally, it's sort of the mindset that we talk about. Obviously with Livia Sand, it's one of the key ideas. It's showing up whether in a relationship or in a team or in an environment where You know, it's shifting away from that me to we, you know, mindset, asking the question, you know, what can I do to help you? What can I do to make you look better? Instead of, you know, most of us are used to, you know, what can you do to help me? And what it sounds like you're saying is, you know, really approaching these relationships from a, you know, really from almost more of a service or a support standpoint of, hi, I want you to tell me about yourself. And maybe there's a way or two that I might be able to help you at some point. Um, and just— and knowing what— yeah, yeah. And, and what impact that has on people.

Yes, yes. Not necessarily saying straight out what you just said is, how can I be of service to you?

Right.

But that's essentially what you're looking for. You're looking for the opportunity to be of service to the other person without necessarily saying How can I be of service to you? Because that's a little off-putting and they may not have an answer to that question.

Sure, sure.

Yeah, but while you're in the conversation, they may be looking for opportunities or ways, or they may say something and you walk away, but 2 months later you come across something and go, oh, you know what, that reminds me of that person I talked to at this event. was into that thing or was looking for a resource about this. And then you can come back and be of service down the road. You just never know when things are going to show up. And that's why it's also so important to not think, oh, that person isn't very useful to me.

Right, right. And so yeah, yeah, almost having— you have no idea at what, at what point you might make another connection where you think of that person or that other person thinks of you.

Mm-hmm, right.

So Lori, tell us about your book. By the time this podcast is live, your book will be available. So tell us about the book and tell us how people can find it or order it.

Yeah, it's called How to Feel Comfortable, Confident, and Courageous at Networking Events. And it is, it is primarily about a little bit about how to prepare before you go to a networking event and then how to show up, how to, how to eat, how to—

Yeah.

Act, how to feel more comfortable at an event. So, um, how to break into a conversation, how to find people to talk to.

Right.

At the event, for example, and how to present yourself. There's a little bit in there. Some of it, I mean, I don't know, maybe it just seems obvious to me, but like where to put your name tag and how to shake hands and some practical tips as well as A little bit how to manage your energy.

Sure, sure.

We touched on that earlier. Yeah, all those good things. A little bit about more— a little more about how to make those conversations more interesting and more substantial.

And can you speak a little bit more just about when you're talking about managing your energy for someone who's listening to this who might not be sure exactly what you mean? What you mean with energy.

Yeah. So typically, quiet people, if you're— I don't want to say forcing yourself, but if you have to force yourself to go to an event, right, it drains energy. Maybe being around people for 2 or 3 hours is draining to you. And so it's a matter of recognizing first, if it's a 3-hour event, there's nobody forcing you to stay all 3 hours. So go, and if you're feeling a little bit tired, you don't, you don't want to be around the people anymore, and you've only been there for 2 hours, then leave. It's okay.

Right.

If you're at a conference, maybe the other day conference kind of thing, it's a matter of taking breaks. And giving yourself an opportunity to recharge. And that's okay. I think that we sometimes need permission to do that because we feel like we're going to be missing out and everybody else is staying there. Why do I need to go and recharge? Well, because that's wired and that's what you need to do.

Right.

And that's okay.

Right. And so really just sort of that, that emotional and that mental state that you carry with you Yeah, it is.

And even with a great mental attitude, you're looking forward to it, you're excited about it, you may still need to go recharge your battery after 3 or 4 hours.

Yeah.

And take a walk or go back to your room, do a meditation, whatever it is, and then come back down fully charged so that you can engage with the next person. And be present again for the next interaction.

Well, Laura, your website is called ZenRabbit, one word, so ZenRabbit, Z-E-N-R-A-B-B-I-T.com, for people who are listening who want to find out more about you. You do coaching, you do individual coaching, group coaching. Your book will be available on this site, I imagine?

Yes, in fact, the book, the best way to find the book is to go to ZenRabbit.com.

That makes it very easy. Yes. And so of course, the last question I have to ask you is, why Zen Rabbit? Where did, where did the name come from?

So one of the things that I'm doing is helping people kind of get to that place of Zen comfortableness with networking. So the Zen part, but when I was a baby, I had stuffed animal rabbit. It was my— and I would rub her ears for comfort like little kids do with different things, right?

Right.

And so I'd rub her ears, and so she was my Zen Rabbit, although I didn't call her that, but she put me in that Zen meditative state. And so when I was looking for a name for my company, that kind of came to me as Zen Rabbit. Plus, from a marketing standpoint, which I have Also a marketing background, that is a name that people don't forget. Often they don't remember my name, but they remember Zen Rabbit.

I love it. I love it. And just one more bonus idea, Lori, for the 95% of the people who are listening to this podcast and can relate absolutely to feeling maybe uncomfortable or quiet in group situations. What is one unusual tip One unusual tip that doesn't seem obvious, one unusual tip that we can give to people today.

Hmm, one unusual tip. Okay, go start out, if you can, start out going to smaller events instead of walking into a room of 500 people. You start by going to an event where there are maybe only 30 people so that it's a smaller, more intimate setting. It's not so overwhelming to your senses.

I like it. So start small and build up. Are you there?

Yeah.

Sorry, I just lost you there for a second.

Start small, yeah.

I was just— again, we had a moment of silence. I was just appreciating the zen of that quiet space. Even if the call dropped for that minute, I was appreciating the zen of that quiet space. Uh, well, Lori, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And, uh, again, the website is zenrabbit.com. And where can people find you on social media, Lori?

Oh yeah, social media. So facebook.com/zenrabbit. On LinkedIn under my name, Lori Seitz, and on Twitter @ZenRabbit.

Fantastic. That's Lori Seitz. Seitz is S-A-I-T-Z.

Exactly.

Well, thank you so much, Lori. I appreciate you coming on the weekly Yes Am podcast. I look forward to talking—

My pleasure.

Thank you. We'll talk again in the future.

Sounds good.