Episode 117: The Modern Dad with Perry Towle

And hello, everyone. Welcome to the weekly Yes! And podcast. I'm your host, Travis Thomas. And I do not know what episode this is, because as I'm recording this a few weeks out before Father's Day, I know we're at episode 116 was the last episode, but I'm not 100% sure. There is going to be a 117 before this podcast. So let's just call this the Father's Day podcast for the Weekly Yap. And that's what our focus is for today, is on Father's Day here in the United States. And we are going to be talking to a repeat guest on the Weekly Yap. His name is Perry Tolle. It's been a few years since we've had him on the podcast. And Perry has created A website called Unglue, U-N-G-L-O-O. Don't worry, we will mention it plenty of times throughout the podcast. But Perry has created a website and tools and resources around the modern dad. So what do we mean by the modern dad? Well, we will find that out during this podcast. And this podcast is in partnership with our friends at Inspired to Give. Check them out at inspiredtogive.org. You may be listening to this podcast from Inspired to Give because this will be shared on their platform as well. And I'm a contributor to Inspired to Give. And make sure you check out all the cool things that we are doing, including the Good Bits. Good Bits are really simple, cool things that people are doing, taking action by doing good. We call them Good Bits. Make sure you check them out. Make sure you check out the website inspiredtogive.org. Or on Facebook, Inspired to Give. And so really excited to have Perry today as we take a deeper, more thoughtful, spiritual approach to what it means to be a father, what it means to be a dad here in 2019. And that is, uh, it's evolving, it's changing, and it can be challenging for a lot of dads, a lot of men. And so super grateful to Perry for taking the time to have this discussion. At one point during the conversation, Perry and I are talking about a book, Science and Health by Mary Baker Eddy. And the reason he and I are speaking with such familiarity about it is because I know Perry has been a lifelong reader of the book, as I have been. And so when it comes up, you might be surprised to be like, oh, they both, wow, really know this author and book really well. And so in In the flow of the podcast, I just wanted to give that insight that obviously I knew Perry was a reader of Science and Health, as I have been. And so that is the extra context to Mary Baker Eddy's book. But beyond that, it was a fun, insightful, and I think inspiring conversation. So without further ado, let's jump in with Perry Tolle.

Hey!

So welcome everyone to another weekly Yes and podcast. I'm your host Travis Thomas. This podcast will also be co-opted by our friends and partners at Inspired to Give. You can check them out at inspiredtogive.org, and I know they'll be sharing this podcast on their platform as well. And or you may have found it on the Live Yes and platform or all things at Live Yes and so. There you go. Let's jump in. Really excited to have, uh, now Perry. I've had very few return guests to the Weekly Yes! And podcast. Now, wow. I'm not sure if that's because they no longer are returning my emails or calls, um, or if it's just, I just haven't found people worthy enough to talk to again. Um, I'll let people decide for themselves the truth of that. But I'm excited because not only have I known you for a long time, going back to our college days, I know. I have been honored to stay in touch with you and connect with you every time we're in Colorado and continue to follow the work that you are doing that I know is both authentic, purposeful, and passionate for you. And so the last time we spoke, Um, I think it was a little, uh, was it Godayo?

True. Yeah.

It was, it was good. It was Godayo. And I know, and I know that work has evolved a little bit into what you're doing now with Ungloo, U-N-G-L-O-O. So just to bridge that gap a little bit to someone who listened to our first podcast and they're now like, okay, what has that evolution looked like? A, welcome to the Weekly Yes Am Podcast, and B, catch us up.

Yes. So, um, thank you for having me. This is fun to do another time. I think because my love for you is so unconditional, I'm willing to come back a second time, and perhaps those other folks weren't. I mean, who knows?

Well, let this be a lesson to all of them on unconditional love. Thank you.

Good. Um, yeah, Goddio was one of these Words that came to me in, uh, in a moment of silence, uh, where I thought it was, it was a divine, uh, you know, uh, the sun was shining on the ark kind of moment. And so I went, I went with it because it also stands for, in my mind, I think of it as God in you. And it was, it felt a little abstract and hard to say, and, um, And, uh, over the course of about a year, I thought, you know, I want to find something a little different. And then I read your book, you know, and this whole notion of being unstuck.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. Um, for those of you all, you know, your listeners that have a, have a good idea of what that, what that stands for, right? And it's just getting whatever's holding you down from being your— the truer version of yourself, that's where the stickiness is, right?

Yes.

Um, as, as you have often said. And so it's pulling yourself out of that, and what are you doing to pull yourself out of that? Um, and so that's kind of what I've continued to focus on, um, with the content that I've been creating. Uh, what makes my content unique is that I'm using animation in my vlogs rather than live video or written word blog format.

Yes.

And so I, I break it up into 3 pieces. There's the content, which I— which is the animated video, and I'm starting to put myself in there now so that it's me and This character, this little round blue character who I'm calling Glue. I call him Goo. He's Goo. Sometimes he's— he often sits on the fence with issues, so he's a little slimy at times. So, and so there's the animation, and then there's what I call up-level tools. And right now I've got various things on my website, like the up-level tracker. I've been hitting that one pretty hard. Up-level journal. And the— and now I've thrown a meditation tracker in there, but that's not a spiral-bound copy yet. But the other 2 are also in spiral-bound. And then I'm also, um, do more of an interpersonal or face-to-face meetings, particularly honing in on fathers. Fathers usually with kids still in the house. So for a while I was doing What I called Father Up meetings, and we would meet twice a month. And it's basically a men's group situation or like a mastermind meeting. But what I was finding when I was in more of a classic men's group, there were empty nesters, and then there were guys who didn't have kids yet, and, and then there were some guys that also had children and that still living in their homes. And so I resonated with them so much because the, the complexities of their, of their lives were more like mine. And there's this, there's this dance that we do, this harmonization of work, home, kids, wife balance, or partner, um, that's complex. And so I was like, all right, I want to have a men's group just for dads. And, uh, so I, I did that for a while and I stopped because I became— all of a sudden my kids got older and I became more of a chauffeur, uh, which— A shuttle driver, right? When they get older, all of a sudden you've got them in these activities. So it became basketball and volleyball driving shuttle, shuttle operator. So I didn't want to completely blow out all my evenings with, with groups and And sports, so I discontinued those, but I'm very excited about starting those up again. Even having the class meeting— my one daughter's in 5th grade and one in 8th grade— and I had— we would have 2 meetings a month with just the 5th grade dads meeting at 8:30 in the morning, and we And a lot of dads would come to that continually. And, um, and I would, you know, sometimes it was just casual talk— politics, sports, things like that— but then I would sometimes bring it back. Well, what are you working on? What are you excited about being a dad? So pulling those kinds of things in there. And, um, I also spent the last 6 months going through an Appreciative Inquiry facilitator training. Which is an amazing process of how to work with groups in more of a— in order to create meaningful conversations within the group. So that's kind of what I've been working on.

Well, I love that. A couple of things, because I want to give you a little shameless plug at the same time, is in your tools right on the website, you have the Uplevel Tracker. And I've used the Uplevel Tracker and I'm excited to use it again because I left it up in Northern Michigan, which I will be retrieving here in a few weeks. But I'm in a coaching program. I'm in a 10-month-long coaching program right now. And part of this coaching program is a daily, sort of a daily journal or a daily tracker of a few key ideas. And so But I, I have yet to find a, in my opinion, a, uh, a better tracker than the one that you've created. So, um, I'll be ordering another one, but I wanted to give you a plug because as I've used that tracker in the past, it's just been really great at, uh, being helpful and holding me accountable to the things that are most important to me on a day-to-day basis, making sure that I do them, um, and being able to track that over a week and over a month and, and having that, having that feedback loop. And so For anyone listening, please check out his tools on the website. And then give us a sense though, Perry, of what was the original sort of impetus? And I know a lot of this is just out of your own personal life and your personal journey of being a dad, being a father, and being a spouse and navigating sort of this world that you're in. But what was the original inspiration for that? And when did you start to see that there were other men out there who were maybe questioning, pondering, even struggling with the same ideas?

Those are good questions. Um, I— it's— for me, it started, you know, I always felt like I needed to work out in the mornings in order to maintain just an equilibrium mentally and emotionally and physically. But more for me, it was more just a clarity, a mental clarity. Um, well, I try— I tell people it's not about 6-pack abs. It's about—

Thank goodness.

Your body.

Thank goodness. Yes.

It's about moving your body to create some, some flow. Um, Into, uh, and break kind of the sticky, the stuckness, the glueness, right?

Yeah.

Um, so that, that was something that was already always kind of a part of my daily thing. But I, um, I knew that there were all these other things out there, and I hear people talking about meditation and journaling and nutrition and finding valuable time, carving out valuable time with your partner, being present in the moment with your children. Um, meeting with men, uh, to positive men. You know, they say you're most, most like the 5 people you spend the most time with. So who are those people and are you actually connecting with them in a meaningful, purposeful way? Um, you know, those kinds of things. I knew they were out there, right?

Yeah.

Because I know I'm supposed to be doing these things, but I, I wanted something that was gonna be not on my phone. But on my dresser where I could actually see what I've done and what I've been doing for that week. And then, yeah, it was just something that I wanted to, to have as a reminder, but also what I've been doing. And what I say in one of the little explainer videos for the Uplevel Tracker is If there's a day when you're feeling off, maybe go back and look and see what have you been missing in your little regime. If you haven't connected with men or had some kind of coaching in some shape or form where you're actually able to talk to someone about things that you don't ever really talk There just aren't environments for people in modern— in our modern culture to say, or maybe there never was, I don't know, where you say, this is actually how I'm feeling about this situation. But because you can't do that, it's difficult to do that sometimes with your friends. You don't want to bleed out on them.

Right.

And it's difficult to do that with family because you don't Sometimes you don't want to be— yeah, it's just with family, sometimes you just don't want to tell them everything, right?

Sure, you don't want to be that vulnerable.

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes you need a sounding board that's not your wife, and so— or your partner. So for me, that was one of the things that was missing. And so I wanted to keep track of that. And I also wanted a reminder to say if I wanted to set a goal for that week, I wanted to know, I wanted to kind of project out what I'm going to do. It's like, all right, I'm going to journal every day this week. So then I would, I would circle on the tracker every day of where I would— I'm supposed to mark off the journal. Yeah. So it's a, it's a It's— you're preloading what you want to do, you're tracking what you want to do, and then you're looking, and then you're reviewing what you did. And those are, you know, anybody who knows about habit creating, right? That's the process.

Well, let's talk a little bit, Perry, about— so you started doing this obviously for your own, your own self-care. And you talk about, you know, the different, the different groups, the men's groups and the things like that. As you, as you got down this road a little bit, you know, and you started having more and more conversations with, um, with modern dads, and what were, you know, what are one or two of the key issues that, that kind of came to the surface that, that you saw, um, that men were struggling with?

The biggest one was, uh, complete, uh, lack of knowledge around the importance of carving out time for yourself. Um, yeah, I would get these guys together and they're all really sharp people, and I would say, all right, what are you doing for yourself? And I'm expecting the guy to say, you know, I, I every day I know I have to carve, or once a week I know I have to practice my guitar because, because that's something that I really love to do. And so that's what I do. Or, um, you know, sometimes I just love to go out for a hike outside because I can connect with Mother Nature, whatever it is. And but it was crickets when I would ask these questions. And that's—

What do you mean, do for myself?

Yeah. And that's, and that's where, you know, people are. And there's no, there's There's no shame in that, but it was almost like, okay, well, let's bring some awareness to that. I had one guy who was definitely the one who came the most, and when we started, that question for him was crickets. And he did, he actually did practice the guitar every once in a while. That was kind of his outlet, listening to music. But over time, over the course of a year, I would say by the 9-month mark or 10 months into just kind of meeting on a regular basis, it started to— he started through osmosis or something, he started to say, all right, I want to make these changes here. And maybe it is that he's spending time with people that are trying to move the needle in a positive direction. And so he got himself on a pretty strict diet plan, one that he could— that wasn't overwhelming, and he lost 30 pounds.

Yeah.

Um, and I, you know, who's to say if that was the Father Up group, or— but, but it did happen, and he's, you know, continuing to find other ways to Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and again, I imagine, right, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but you start to talk to— and I think it definitely goes both ways, right? You start to talk to spouses, husbands, fathers, and are you doing things that take care of yourself? And you hear crickets. And well, yeah, it's like, A, I don't have time, and B, if I make time, that's selfish because I'm taking away from somebody else. spending time with my wife and kids.

Yeah.

And if I were to ask, if I were to ask, you know, the, the wife who is either a stay-at-home mom or she's the working mom, are you taking care of yourself? And the answer is probably crickets. And it's like, well, A, I can't, I don't have the time. And B, if I do, I feel selfish. And, and, you know, it's funny when in this world, if we all take a step back for a second and it's like, well, You know, both of us, you know, in a relationship, and it's like neither, neither partner feels that they have time to take care of themselves. And then what, what is the result that has on the relationship, on the family, on their own personal care, right? And it's, you know, the old, uh, oxygen mask on the airplane. Make sure you're, you know, you take care of yourself before you can help anyone else.

Right.

Right. We've all heard that. We all understand that.

I even have an animation on that.

Yes. Yes, you do.

Yes.

Well, we'll, we'll, we'll plug that link here in the, in the thread. Yes.

Super.

And so as you, as you have started to, whether it's the men's groups or one-on-one coaching or, or men who are coming to the website, what have you, you know, what are some trends that you've started to see As, as people start to put some of these routines and habits to work. I know you mentioned, you mentioned the guy who obviously found a routine and he, you know, he lost 30 pounds. But yeah, what are, what are some of those other trends that you've seen?

In terms of the results or the things that they're doing?

Or, well, I think it's the results and I think it's the insights also at the same time, right? You know, it's like the results are— the results almost become secondary to Maybe some of these, and maybe it's just for yourself. What has— what's been the biggest impact for you as you've made this commitment?

Yeah. Well, yeah, you're right. I do hear that excuse. It's not an excuse. It's just a reality for some people. And like I said, there shouldn't be any shame in being wherever you are with your development. But it's— I You know, there's that argument said, "Well, I don't have time. I'm taking away time from work and family." And you know, I I always think of the metaphor of the lifeguard—the lifeguard who doesn't sleep or train or take care of him or herself. I don't want that lifeguard. Look, watching over my kids, right? Right. Yeah. Um, and that's, and that's more of a physical example, like, but he or she also has to be very alert to what's going on. So if they're getting enough sleep and they're not, um, eating a bunch of sugar so they're feeling sloggy, then they're not, um, gonna be their best. So you have to, uh, Make it, make it a priority. And I, and I say, if you are doing various things to take care of yourself, then you're going to be in a mindset to be more efficient in your work and being present with your kids. Because if I, if I'm not doing some kind of care for myself, particularly in the mornings, and I'm, and I'm gonna greet my kids, I'm gonna be a little edgy, right? You know, and if I— and if I have, then I can come and say, good morning! Like, you know, all of a sudden I'm alive and I'm creating positive energy. Hopefully that— and inevitably that bubbles into their little realms. And, and then when they walk to school, hopefully their buckets are filled, their emotional buckets are at a happy place. So when they come into school, they can learn. So yeah, I think that's, that's the thing. I'm trying to think of some individual instances where that's happened, happening for others too, but I can't. Can't think of any right off the bat. Yeah.

And well, and let me ask you this, because I think if we look at sort of where we are as a society as a whole, when we look at, when we look at manhood, and, and I love— and you have it as a book, you have it as a book in your shop, sort of the evolution of, the evolution of the dad.

Yes.

Which is great, which I've Which I've read and I've seen before, and you do a great job of kind of showing that evolution of how the role of the father, the role of the man has changed. And we are— and maybe you can talk to this a little bit— where do you see right now where we are in society, what the role of the dad looks like?

Yeah, yeah, and that's really one of the reasons why I got into this whole thing is, uh, I was in that place where I was spending more time at— way more time at home doing way more domestic things than my father and my grandfather and his father. I mean, I don't know about my great-grandfather, but I have a feeling he wasn't cooking and changing diapers, um, nearly as much as men are today. And Obviously we're balancing that the work— the workplaces, there's more women, obviously. And so that creates this new paradigm, which is great, uh, because I think now children are going to get a balanced perspective on what it means to be a human. Before it was just mostly mom, and you're getting a lot of females in school. And then so you're surrounded by feminine energy, which is wonderful. I mean, I wouldn't want any other type of nurturing energy. But then I think having men now in the home, it's going to create a lovely balance. Um, so I— now I forget your original question.

Yeah, no, I think you're answering it. It's It's what is the sort of perceived current role of, of the dad in, in society right now. And, and obviously you, you have been a part of that transition yourself. You're noticing yourself being a different type of father than your father or your grandfather.

Yeah.

Uh, you're coming across lots of men who are, are in similar situations, and, and my sense is that there is a little bit of an identity crisis that is taking place as this evolution is happening.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's some— because we didn't have that role modeling, right? And so, um, you grow up thinking, well, I'm just gonna work all the time like my dad did, and I'm gonna come home and kick it. Um, and that's not true for all dads in that generation, but, but I would say the majority of dads that I speak to today, they— that's what They were dealing with. Yeah, so you— so there's, um, that sense that you're not a man anymore because you're at home. I think for some men there's that, that component. And for other men, it's like, I love being home and I wish I could be home more often. Um, and so that's new too, where more and more guys are just purely invested in The kids more and more so. So, um, yeah.

Well, what I, uh, I was gonna say, and what I, what I love about what you're doing and, and what Unglue, uh, is offering, and, and this is my opinion, I feel that it's, it's, it's offering a pure, uh, more spiritual— and, and not that you're necessarily leading with spirituality, but I know we can have this conversation— I think it's offering a pure, more spiritual idea of what it means to be a man.

Yeah.

And, and obviously, the term toxic masculinity has become a very popular term. We don't have to go far to find it. And, but at the same time, and I think, you know, again, I am a dad who is also in this group, you know, that I'm not going off to an office every day, you know, I'm a solopreneur. So, I'm home a lot with the kids and embrace definitely more of a feminine energy approach to fatherhood. And so, masculinity has been given a bad name in a certain sense, but I think it's that toxic masculinity that is negative.

Uh-huh.

And so, how do you see, as far as the work that you're doing, sort of reclaim kind of a higher idea of masculinity.

Yeah, it's, uh, you're right, it's, it's, it's balancing that because there are more and more women are, are taking on that masculine energy, right? And so how do you— then how do you balance your masculine energy and your partner's masculine energy and your feminine energy?

Yes.

And I think for some men, there's a, there's a Mr. Nice Guy issue. And, you know, I'm a recovering Mr. Nice Guy. There's a book written called No More Mr. Nice Guy, because the Mr. Nice Guy thinks that if he can just come in and just, just avoid conflict altogether, Um, then everything's gonna work out okay. But you're not— but when you aren't able to create boundaries about what you need in a relationship, or how much space you might need, um, when— if you're at home a lot, um, or if you're not being assertive and creating boundaries, then it creates, um, an imbalance for yourself and for your partnership and for your Your parenting abilities. Um, what I found within a lot of this work that I've been doing, I don't get the alpha male, you know, coming through very often. Um, because I feel like he's, um, that strong kind of super assertive and, and maybe too come on too strong, too kind of a bully, uh, mindset. They're not— They're not attracted to Um, the stuff that I, that I'm putting out.

Sure.

But, um, but even in the, in the groups that I've participated outside of my group, there's a, the Dad's Edge Alliance, the Dad Edge Alliance, which is a very popular group that I've participated in. Um, even they even had a summit. They're gonna have a summit in St. Louis next weekend, I think, or 2 weekends from now. And I went to the first one. And, um, and that there's so many men that come across as big, strong, tattooed, like there are these beastly men there, but their hearts, you know, when you start talking about what they're doing with their families and their hearts are big and just, and really tender once you get past the exterior, and doesn't take long. So I think it's creating environments to allow that strong masculine energy to say, all right, we're going to connect your thoughts with your heart, with some emotions, some feelings. What does that feel like for you when, when you feel like you're not doing enough with your kids, or if you feel like your wife is telling you you're doing it wrong? Can you settle into your heart for a second? Can you— can we sit down and say, I need 5 minutes to breathe and I'm just going to disappear? I know it might sound weird, but I'm going to go into my room for 5 minutes. I'll be right back before I blow up.

Right.

So to answer your question, I think it is creating more of that connection between the head and the heart. Because so many times we, we say, you know, ask men, well, how does that feel? We basically think we have 2 emotions or 3 emotions. Um, it's you're either I'm happy, I'm sad, or I'm pissed. You know this.

Yeah.

But there are a lot of other things in there. And it's— and, um, so even on my Facebook group and And I've— if you go online and you type in a list of emotions, you'll get these beautiful— and you click on images, you'll get these beautiful little 8.5 by 11 sheets with all the different emotions in all the different categories. And you can say, yeah, you know what, I am actually feeling more this way than this way. And then you maybe even have to look that word up to see what it really means.

Right.

Um, so I even, I even printed that out so I would take it to my meetings, and I, and I laminated it so we could pass it around and say, well, what is this? I know you're feeling anger about this situation, but can you look a little bit deeper? And so that's how I, that's how I think it was one of the really good ways to, to soften the masculine energy. Um, and help integrate that with, um, with a healthy masculine energy.

Yeah, well, and, and that's, and that's just the thing, right? Like, masculinity doesn't need to, doesn't need to be a negative thing, right? It's, it's right. Um, but there's, there's an extreme on either end, whether it's femininity or, or masculinity. And, you know, was it Mary Baker Eddy 130-plus years ago in Science and Health talked about sort of of the blending, you know, sort of that, that, you know, the whole man, right? The blending, the blending of the masculine and the feminine. It's not one or the other, it's that blending of both. Um, for you, just in your own, you know, you know, your own spirituality, when you think, when you think about your role as, you know, as a dad, um, uh-huh. what does that, what does that look like?

Hmm. For me, it's creating quiet times to, to listen. I'm not a big reader when it comes to connecting with divine source. You know, one of Mary Baker Eddy's quotes that resonated with me early on was, let us feel the divine energies of Spirit. Again, then it goes on, bringing us into newness of life. And so for me, it's— and Mary Baker Eddy doesn't use that word, or doesn't use feel, that word, very much. But for me, um, I— it's a thinking process, and going back, it is a feeling process. So I can sit and, um, and feel that presence. And so what I want to pass on to my girls Is that can you feel the comforter, which the Bible talks about, right? The divine comforter, or Mary Baker Eddy uses that, the divine comforter. Can you feel that regardless of what's going on? So whenever they're not feeling well or whatever, they're— I have my one daughter, she went on a field trip, they went on a hike. In the woods of Colorado, and, uh, and she got lost. The chaperones had no idea. They didn't even— they didn't even know she was lost. And so we were able to ask her, you know, what was it like being alone? She said, well, I didn't— I didn't completely feel alone because I knew God was with me, you know. And so if I can— And so if If she feels that God is with her, then, then that creates a calmness and that creates a clarity for her to know how to respond and what to listen to and where to go. Um, so she eventually, of course, was able to catch up with everybody. But, um, yeah, it's, it's, um, taking those moments when, when you're feeling, uh, triggered by something And just saying, okay, I'm just gonna be right here in this moment and respond with grace. Yeah, as best I can.

And for everyone listening, obviously they can go to the website again, ungloo.com, and see some of the really cool tools and resources you've developed for your— for you, but on your own, what are, what are some different practices that you have that have been routines, they've become non-negotiable, that, that you use to, to make sure that you're taking care of yourself?

Yeah, you know, I love— there's 3 that I hit in the morning that are— that really create Um, a good foundation for me. And I alternate when it comes to exercise. I alternate, uh, some kind of resistance training. And, and recently I've been using fitnessblender.com. It's a plug for Fitness Blender. I'm not getting paid by Fitness Blender.

Um, yet.

Yeah, but that's a great resource that I just kind of stumbled upon. Um, it's free and it's incredible. They have hundreds of YouTube videos that they've created. Um, and then I'll do some kind of cardio, or that's cycling or jogging or some kind of aerobic jumping up and down kind of exercise. Um, high-intensity interval training type workout. And so I'm alternating these days. And then, uh, and then I'll do some kind of stretch or yoga-based workout. So I find if I alternate these, it just makes it more interesting, um, and so, and less of a routine. So I'd be like, oh, you know, I haven't done— I haven't been for a bike ride in a long time. It looks like I'm ready for that. And usually, you know, my mind and body will say that, will kind of lead me in that direction already because it's— It's, it's ready for something new like that. Uh, so on the up-level tracker, I do break it out into those 3 categories: yoga stretch, resistance, and then some type of cardio. Some people say, well, I only need one little check for exercise, I don't need to break it out into those 3. But I do because I think it's important to diversify, to keep it interesting. And then some type of meditation/prayer. Recently I've been using the Calm app.

Yes.

I used the Headspace app before. The Calm app is nice. What I find tricky with guided meditations is that because they, they keep it so secular, sometimes there's, there's a lack of, for me, an emphasis on, on a divine presence, on that—

Yes.

On that type of source energy. And so I have to— when they talk about breathing, for me that becomes— the in-breath can be more of an inhale or an understanding of God's presence, and the exhale, an expression of God's presence. So I have to do that kind of myself. I haven't really found someone who's integrating both of them. And then journaling is a big piece too. Tim Ferriss says it's the cheapest therapy that there is.

Right.

And he's a big advocate, or at least was at one point, of the 5-Minute Journal. And I have that as well. And I also have my own, the Uplevel Journal, which has prompts. Each morning there's a page, so you get 2 pages of prompts. If you started on Monday, you'd give Monday, uh, where it's just, um, very, very similar to, uh, to, uh, the Miracle Morning, Hal Elrod's work.

Right.

Savers. But it's gratitude affirmation and things like that that goes down the list. And then, and then another open page, the third. So like on Wednesday, you would be like a stream of consciousness. journal entry where you're just letting it all out and you're not editing yourself. And it allows you to get your ideas down in a more concrete fashion. Sometimes the, the head-to-hand, pen-to-paper connection is a nice way to bring some self-awareness. So I'm a big fan of those 3 right off the bat. Um, and then, and then, you know, you always think— for me, I think that being present with my kids is all about my relationship with them and all about helping them. But what I find is that I actually feel better about myself if I, you know, play a game with them.

Yes.

It's in many respects, it can be pretty selfish. And, you know, it's like, all right, Lily, we're gonna play checkers. I don't want to. Well, let's do it. We're gonna have fun. I'm thinking about if I can play checkers with her, we're gonna have this connection and I'm gonna— there's something that happens there for me. And I know for her that is, um, just feels real.

Yes.

You know? Um, yeah, those kinds of talks. Yeah.

And I, I love— I mean, obviously you've got a lot there. There's a There's, there's a lot of different things that you do that, that are taking care of the masculine and the feminine energy. Again, it's a, it's a, it's a really nice representation of the blending of the two.

Uh-huh.

And their, their actions, their activities, they are habits. You know, I was— I think my Instagram TV, my Yes Daily for today was in some of the coaching I've been doing recently is thinking about, you know, helping different people who are going through challenging situations. And when I say challenging situations, I just mean life. They're going through life and they're looking at the path ahead and they see that, oh, this is not going to be an easy path.

Uh-huh.

And just identifying that as reality and saying, okay, yeah, this is kind of how life goes. Whenever we do anything that's worthwhile, it's going to be difficult. And so it's not a matter of If we stumble or if we step on a landmine, it's when, right? We are gonna stumble. We are gonna step on a landmine. We are gonna run into adversity and challenges. And so it's not an if, it's a when. But the bigger question is when we do that, what are the habits and the routines that we have?

Uh-huh.

That allow us to handle those situations gracefully, um, effectively. In a way that, that is taking care of ourselves at the same time, right? It's like, you know, the habits and the routines are part of our daily training.

Uh-huh.

And the reason we train just like we would train for a sport or for a marathon is because we are going to be called upon to perform at a higher level when these— when we step on these landmines. And it's that daily training which allows us to perform well in that adversity.

Yeah.

And everything that you're talking about, right? It's really, you know, like you take meditation. Meditation is less— it's not so much about the 10 minutes that you're meditating. It's about the thing that happens later in the day that you handled better because you meditated earlier in the day.

True.

And how— and so I just love— yeah, again, just to go back to the tools and the resources that you have that are And not just helpful to dads or men, but, but, but anybody, um, and how they help develop those, those routines that help us show up and be better dads and be better spouses and partners and, and coworkers and friends and, and, and all that good stuff.

Yep. Yeah, true.

Well, Perry, as, as we, as we come, as we come to a, a close here, uh, and full, full transparency to everyone who's listening. At different times, you may have heard maybe a little bit of a hum in the background, maybe a few beeps. I am doing this podcast interview in the Toyota Prius sound room, which is my Toyota Prius.

Mm-hmm.

I'm sitting in 90-degree heat, and to minimize the amount of hum, Perry, for this, I have occasionally turned off the car, which I am doing right now. So I am sweating profusely. I already did Bikram hot yoga this morning, so I've already done it once.

You did?

So this is—

yes. Why would you do hot yoga in Florida, Kenji? Do people ask you that?

Well, because it's actually cooler in the Bikram studio than it is outside. So it's actually cold yoga if you're in Florida.

That's really funny.

So I'm sweating profusely. Um, but I've had to turn the car on a few times, like I'm going to right now. See if you, see if you, see if you can hear it. So I'm turning the car on right now. There's the beeps.

Well, as soon as I heard you, as soon as I heard the beeps, I was like, he's in the car.

Yeah.

He has to be turning the AC on. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the only way I've been able to survive this without passing out.

For sure.

Um, but, but I am, I'm getting a good sweat on as we do the podcast. And so And it's also been my way of making sure that my phone and laptop computer don't overheat because they will do that, right?

Right.

Okay, so here we are.

You're an office on the go.

I am, I am. Well, actually, I don't have a home. This is my home. So, uh, um, no, Hollister hasn't left me yet. All right. Um, so, uh, in the spirit, for those of us listening in the US, We are celebrating Father's Day this week when this podcast comes out. And so, Perry, I know you're a good dad. I know you're a good spouse. And in the spirit of Father's Day, when you reflect back on your childhood and just what the good qualities that you took from your own father, what kind of stands out to you as you think about yourself as a father?

Hmm. And my dad was and is a very gentle man, so he never said—

he—

I don't think he ever raised his voice, and I don't think he ever said a curse word. And he was always home by 5:00, 5:30 every night. We always sat down and had dinner, and, um, And he— when I got a D in accounting in college, he said— I mean, it was a D+, I'll give myself some super credit there. He said, you know, what about music? I know how much you love music. Don't feel like you have to do this business thing. So he was, um, very kind and is still very kind, and, and, and that love, that unconditional love. reigns forth, even though I'm extremely different than he is in many ways. But we, we are very soft-spoken, so we have that similarity. So I do try and bring that to my girls, you know, plenty of assertiveness, but still plenty of, hey, you know, I feel like I want to raise my voice right now and scream. But I'm not going to, you know, because I had that growing up. I didn't have— I didn't grow up in a home filled with trauma. I feel very blessed for that. So I can continue to carry that forth and create an environment where my girls don't feel like— Um, they're gonna have an example of someone that doesn't Whose energy doesn't fluctuate from super, you know, angry, aggressive behavior to very subdued behavior, but more of an even, an even energy.

Yeah.

So that's what I want to bring forth and celebrate on this Father's Day. How about you, Travis?

Well, that's— well, A, that's beautiful. I totally appreciate that. And I know, and I'm sure he will be flattered to hear that. I do want to say that there could have been a more selfish motive with him in your accounting class as well, Perry, because he was probably seeing you as a D+ student and realizing how bad that would be for the family business. So it's probably better to send you in a different direction.

Yeah, this could, this could really damage the family business long term.

Generations, generations to come.

Yeah.

Let's try that music thing. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kidding. Uh, no, that's a great, that's a great question back at me. You know, I, I think when, when I look at, when I look at the good I, uh, I have taken from my father is, um, there was, there was, there was, there was a tenderness there. You mentioned tenderness. There, there was a tenderness there that always was respectful and nurturing of my own spirituality, and I think his response was always to go to spirit first. And there was— and what I also took from him was his commitment to, especially with my sports and my activities growing up, was he was always there. He was always there as a cheerleader, as a big cheerleader.

Oh yeah.

And so those are 2 qualities for sure that I totally respect. respect and love for my dad.

So that's great.

So last thing, Perry, let's, let's send people to your website. And how can they, how can they follow you and see all the great work that you're doing?

Yeah, unglue.com is where it's all at.

unglue.com is the website. And what about social media?

Social media, it's The Instagram is Unglue with 3 O's.

Okay.

Because some— and then Twitter—

Who's sitting out there with, with, with the other Unglue? I mean, what's going on? What's going on?

I don't know. How much can they— do they wanna— if you're out there, call me.

Yeah.

And if the price is right. And also Twitter needs 3 O's, but then YouTube only needs 2 O's. So you— if you go to YouTube Unglue. It's only 2 O's. And that's— there's, uh, I don't know, probably close to 40 videos, animated videos on that. And Vimeo as well as Unglue, 2 O's. And there's also an, um, a closed Facebook group, but it doesn't take much to get in. And it's nice because it's intimate. There's only 45 of us in there. And, um, So it doesn't become this huge stream of overwhelming posting, and I don't think it ever will. And that's—I'm not—I don't—I kind of like the smallness of it. And that's upleveling for dads. So I think it's facebook.com/groups/upleveling. But if you just want to search upleveling for dads, and we'll do weekly postings of. The trackers, if you're so inclined. That doesn't happen very often, but every once in a while, if I twist somebody's arm, they'll do that. And, uh, but there's always new folks coming in with new challenges and, and, uh, sharings. So it's, it's fun.

Awesome, Perry. So a lot of, a lot of opportunities, a lot of resources out there. So listeners, make sure you check them out. And again, um, Look at all the good stuff Perry has to offer, and I can't preach the effectiveness and value of that Uplevel Tracker. So go ahead and get online and buy yourself one of those Uplevel Trackers. Perry, happy Father's Day, brother.

Thank you. Happy Father's Day to you.

And thanks for jumping on, and I look forward to coming out to Colorado and hopefully seeing you soon.

Amen. Amen. I'm up. We'll meet and we'll solve all the world's problems.

Done.

Done.

All right, man, have a great day.

All right, you too.