Episode 87: Seeking to Understand with Jaz Martus

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And welcome everyone to episode 87 of the Weekly Yes! And... podcast. That is right, episode 87. I'm your host, Travis Thomas, the creator of the Weekly Yap and the creator of Live Yes! And... You can find out more about me and my services at liveyesand.com. My services, that sounded dirty. I'm going to be honest with you. It sounded a little dirty. Sorry about that. Or you can check me out on social media @LiveYesAnd. Great to have you guys join us here for episode 87 with Jazz Martis. I'll talk about jazz here in a little bit, but a couple of quick announcements. In November, we will be doing another Get Unstuck in 10 Days. Those dates are still to be determined, but we will be doing another 10 Days to Get Unstuck, which is based off of my book, 3 Words for Getting Unstuck. It'll be 10 days, all on a different principle from the book, and unlimited transformation as a result. So that is coming up in November. Really excited about that. And excited that November also means Rack Friday 2017. That's right. The day after Thanksgiving, which we know as Black Friday, for the last few years we have been turning that into Rack Friday by doing as many random acts of kindness as possible. And we are keeping it up this year, especially in the spirit of my mom who recently passed away this fall, Juju, who loved Rack Friday. So we are going to be racking it up in Juju's honor, in her spirit, and again getting more people involved. So I'm throwing it out there to the Principia School in St. Louis to double down with me. I'll be in St. Louis and hopefully doing some things with the Principia School. To the Lynx School in Colorado who got all the kids out doing racks last year, and to Powers Catholic in Flint. I'm throwing it out to you all as well to get involved. And I went and spoke at Powers before. And that actually segues perfectly into our speaker today. Before that though, if you go to rackfriday.com, that'll throw you to our Facebook page where for Rack Friday you do as many racks as possible. You post them on our Facebook page, and I'll be giving away some free prizes this year for creative racks, most racks, things like that. So check us out, rackfriday.com. Our speaker today I was talking about Flint Powers Catholic High School. His name is Jazz Martis. Now, I met Jazz 2 years ago when I was speaking at the Gear Up to Lead conference in Flint, Michigan. Jazz was backstage interviewing all the speakers. I was like, wow, who is this kid who is really well-spoken? And I don't mean well-spoken as a kid. I meant well-spoken as a person and thoughtful, insightful interview questions. And I was like, wow, this kid's talented. And then over the last few years, my nieces go to school with him and I kept hearing about And all this amazing work that he's doing. I met him again. And then this summer, my nieces told me about this project that he took upon himself. Now, Jazz is a senior in high school this year. So, this was the summer before his senior year of high school. And he was going around different churches and faith groups and visiting them from a standpoint of wanting to understand. And I was so blown away by this that I reached out to him, connected him with the Euphrates Institute, which most of you know You know that I've interviewed Janessa Ganz Wilder on here about the great work that she's doing about turning the other into a brother. And I'm just like, Jas, I need to have you on the podcast because what he stands for and how he is approaching things from a relational and from a political, from a spiritual standpoint is exactly what our world needs right now. And I couldn't think of a better skill set, better intentions, and better motivations for bringing healing and peace and unity to this world. And so, Jazz was nice enough to set some time aside and jump on The Weekly Yap. So without further ado, let's jump into episode 87 of The Weekly Yap with Jazz Martis. And please welcome to this week's Yap, Jazz Martis. Jazz, thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

Jazz is up in Michigan, and as I mentioned in the introduction, I met Jazz— actually, Jazz, I think we met the first time at the Gear Up to Lead event. Is that correct?

Yeah, 2 years ago. Yeah, I think it was in late October, early November.

That's right.

You did a great job speaking there.

Well, you did a great job interviewing all of the speakers for that event. Yeah, so remember that. And so, Jazz, you are 17. You're a senior in high school this year. And so that first time we met, you must have been 15. And I was impressed back then by just, you know, how confident, how intelligent, how well-spoken you were for a 15-year-old. And I know you've only done great things Thanks for making time to jump on the podcast, Jas.

Thank you so much for the kind words. I hope from 15 to 17, I've cultivated some of those skills even further.

I'm sure you have. The reason I wanted to get Jas on the podcast was for a couple of reasons. Jas goes to high school with my 2 nieces up in Michigan, a private school up in Michigan. And this summer, I was sitting around a campfire with family up in Michigan, and my nieces started telling me about this project that Jazz was up to. And when I heard about it, I was like, oh wow, that sounds fascinating. I want to talk more to him about it.

And that led—

one thing led to another. But Jazz, tell everyone sort of this project that you started this summer, or whenever it started, and sort of the inspiration behind it.

Yeah, so this summer I prayed toward Mecca with Muslims, drank water brought from the Ganges River with Hindus, and meditated with Buddhists. I dedicated my summer to attending services for all the major religions, and a lot of questions that I got were, was I doing this because I was shopping for a new religion? And the answer is no, I'm as Catholic as ever, guilt and all. And, uh, or people thought it was for a class assignment. It wasn't. Or that I wanted to be a professor of religious studies, and that wasn't true either. It was simply that I believe with all my heart that it is important to understand other cultures and religions. And I know that, you know, the school that I've gone to has been a phenomenal experience, but it is predominantly white. It is predominantly Christian. And the entire great big beautiful world that we live in is not predominantly white—

Mm-hmm.

—and predominantly Christian. So we— I think that to prepare myself for going out into the world, there was no better way to spend my summer than attending services for all the major religions. And I guess a couple of my influences on that have to be, you know, 2 of my greatest passions are politics and studying different religions. And they both, I believe, stem from a similar experience. When I was younger, my parents ran youth youth leadership programs within the city of Flint. So in my early formative years, I would go with them to work and I would be surrounded by people of different races, of different religions, Mm-hmm. of different socioeconomic backgrounds. So from a perspective of what I want to do with my life, that really inspired me to pursue public service because I think it's the best way to help the greatest amount of people. But it also instilled in me a lifelong curiosity about other ways of life. That it is not my way or the highway, that I am on one narrow path. I think it's important to understand other paths and understand other people. So I think that that experience in my earliest years, my earliest memories, really instilled in me that belief that it's important to understand other cultures and religions.

Oh, fantastic. And so, you know, again, Jazz, you're in your senior year of high school here. So this past summer obviously was the summer before that. Before your senior year of high school, where obviously trying to figure out what school you're going to go to, and that tends to monopolize a high school senior's thoughts. So what was it specifically? Was there a specific instance or situation that sort of inspired this journey?

Well, I would say that it's not a specific moment or event, but it is a lot of things. It is my parents, Carrie Ann and David Martis, who I'm so thankful for, that have called in me a passion for learning about other cultures and religions. It was— I went through years when I was younger where I kind of turned away from my Catholic faith, and I had some great religion teachers, Tom Furness, Melissa Soschowski, Jeremy Dowsett, that really showed me that my religion does not have to be something that is just personal and everyone else is doomed to hell. Religion is an experience that is supposed to be positive, and having great influences like that really drove me to see how religion can be such a positive impact on people's lives. And finally, Reza Aslan. He is a religious scholar. He formerly had a show on CNN, and I originally discovered him because he wrote a book called Zealot: The Life and Times of Jesus.

Yes, I just I just read that this summer, yes.

Oh, isn't that a fantastic book?

It's amazing. For anyone listening, I highly recommend that book, yes.

Absolutely. That really helped bring me back into having a personal relationship with Jesus. His ideas about how— something that I think is great is that he likens religion to a language. So different people have different languages, and it is only going to benefit you in the long run if you're able to speak those other religions, because there's a difference, he says, between religion and faith. Faith is that personal experience and relationship with God that you can't put into words specifically, but religion is the vehicle by which we express that. So a lot of his views, a lot of his commentary was another— Huge inspiration for me for going on this quest.

That's very, very cool. And so to date, Jazz, through the summer, how many different faith groups have you visited so far?

I attended 12, and there are still a few more that I would really like to go to.

Okay, excellent. So, I mean, an obvious question is, all right, man, what have you learned? What has stood out to you during this experience?

I think there are a few takeaways that I had. I think that number one, it is an absolutely beautiful thing to see, no matter how somebody is praying or who they believe they are praying to, there is a calm that comes over somebody's face, whether they are going through the rituals of praying towards Mecca as a Muslim, or as somebody who is a Hindu is making offerings. Mm-hmm. To their God, there is a calm that comes over them that is truly beautiful regardless of how they're worshiping. And I think for myself personally as a Catholic, every service I went to, the people that I met were so kind and so welcoming, and it really, uh, and it really put a positive face on each one of their respective religions because when I went to a Christian Science church. I didn't know very many Christian Scientists, but because everyone there was so kind and so welcoming, I then associated the way in which they acted with their religion. So for myself personally, I have decided to live my life as if when I come into contact with other people, I will be the only Catholic that they ever meet, and that they will associate my actions with my religion. So I think that the people that I met were just Incredible human beings. And I think that when you are a great person, when you practice what you preach, what your doctrine and dogma commands you to do, then it really does put a positive face on your religion. And I think the final thing I would have to say is the similarities between the world's great religions, that of course there are fundamental differences between Judaism, between Christianity, between Islam and Buddhism, and always going down the list. But I think that while it is important to respect those differences, when we're talking about opening up a dialogue, we have to focus on the commonality. And I think that it was, you know, one of the great ways to fight hatred, to fight bigotry, is through education. That if somebody holds hatred in their heart for Muslims, They probably are not aware that Muslims revere Jesus, and Mary is the most referenced woman in the Quran. Or that I said, you know, as a Catholic, Muslims revered so many of the same figures that I did, that so many of the practices I recognize in the Catholic Mass were done in Jewish services far before Christianity was founded, that Catholics— as a Catholic We sing the same hymns as Baptists and Lutherans, and in the holy books that were read, the script, the passages from holy books read at the Hindu temple that I attended, so many of those core messages I could see in the Gospels that I read as well. So I think that there is a universal idea of do unto others as you would have them do unto you that has manifested itself in some way, shape, or form in all the world's great religions. So while there are fundamental differences, I think it's so important when it's— when you're talking about a dialogue with other people to focus on the commonalities.

What I love about your approach to all this jazz is, again, your— sort of your intention. Your intention for going in, it has not been about, you know, trying to go in and focus on differences, nor has it been than trying to go in and convince others of, you know, sort of your way is the correct way. So this idea—

Exactly.

This idea of going in with the intention of empathy and understanding, uh, I, I just think is such a, such a powerful, such a powerful intention, intention as you sort of are going in and, and, and being open and receptive to these other ideas.

Well, thank you so much, and I think that that is applicable to so many. facets of life, that when you're going into a religious discussion, first focus on the commonality before you talk about the differences. If you're talking about politics, focus on the commonality before you go to the differences. I think that you can't— you know, another one of the things that I love to do is I'm captain of our forensics, which is competitive public speaking, not the dead body kind, and debate team. And, you know, in debate, if you're trying to win somebody over to your side, you don't start out with You're wrong, or you're going to hell. You start out with, where's the commonality? Where are the facts? And then you move on to the tougher discussions to have. So I think absolutely you hit the nail on the head that it is important to go in with an open mind, to have a—

Open—

Yeah, have an open mind that is willing to not completely change your own beliefs and convert to another religion suddenly, but just seek to understand.

Absolutely. And I think you bring up 2 very important ideas. The first one is that I think you just came up with the perfect tagline for high school forensics, which is high school forensics, not the dead body kind. Thank you.

I have to explain that to very many people.

I love it. But in all seriousness, just that second idea of just how disarming Yeah. Differences can be as far as disarming any type of conflict or tension when you show up at the table from a mindset of, like you said, seeking to understand. And how often, I would say, you look at our political climate right now, you look at most situations, most of us show up at that table ready to battle and compete. Instead of being open-minded and wanting to understand.

Absolutely.

And so just how that completely sort of shifts the energy, it shifts the conversation, when we can kind of let our guard down a little bit and have a conversation instead of a debate.

Yes, absolutely. And I think that tensions have risen significantly in nearly Yeah. All aspects of society, whether it is political, whether it is religious, whether it is cultural. And I think that, of course, it is hard. It is something that's hard to do. It is something that is hard. You know, I try to, you know, practice what I preach. And sometimes it is difficult to remember to focus on the commonality because the differences are so clear. But I think that, yeah, you are absolutely correct that it is just important to come to the table with an open mind as a Yes, absolutely.

So, Jas, what surprised you most about maybe one of your experiences or just in general? Is there any one thing that stands out?

I would say that I did not expect there to be so many similarities. I knew about the Abrahamic traditions among Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I understood that the Golden Rule was found in many other religions. But I thought that it was beautiful to see that there are so many similarities, not just between Catholicism and religion A or religion B, but just the interconnection, the web of all the great religions, about how there are so many similarities. And I think that I thought I had an idea of where we are similar. I was— I had been made abundantly clear through years of Catholic school where we differed on things, but I really did not expect there to be so many similarities. And I think that in those similarities there is beauty, and also in the differences as well. I think that it is important to have a discussion about this is where, this is where we differ on these issues, and that there is a proper time and place for those sort of theological debates. But when you go in and focusing on the commonality first, I mean, it It was truly a remarkable experience.

Yeah, and was there one particular instance or situation that inspired you maybe more than another?

I would say that my first religious service that I attended was a mosque, and it was during the season of Ramadan, so I fasted throughout the entire day. I didn't— I was I didn't do the full amount of fasting because they don't drink throughout the day too. So I didn't eat at all, but I still had to drink water quite frequently. And, you know, I have much more respect for their fasting because when Catholics fast, all we have to do is eat twice a day on Fridays during Lent and not eat meat, just only eat fish. So, you know, the Islamic sawm, I believe it is called, is, you know, far and above how we Catholics But I think that when I went to the mosque, it was a Saturday night, and after the service, which was absolutely beautiful, we broke bread together. And I think that when I was sitting there amongst people, you know, being the only— not only Catholic, but the only Christian, the only person of another religion in this entire building at this very moment—

Mm-hmm.

I did not feel threatened. I did not feel scared. I did not think that there was going to be a terrorist attack at any moment. I just felt like it was people from all walks of life, from various backgrounds, getting together and eating food and sharing stories and really getting along together. So I think I'm so grateful that that was the first other religious service that I attended. It really set the tone for the rest of my summer. that when people are trying to show you the best aspects of their faith, it really holds their feet to the fire as to the best aspects of their religion. And I think all the people that I talked to were so kind and so welcoming that it really showed me that the rest of the summer was going to hold great things.

Oh, that's great. And how about your own sort of personal faith? How has that been impacted by this experience?

It's absolutely grown. I think that oftentimes people are afraid to learn about other religions because they think it will harm their own, but in fact, it has grown mine. I think that I have never been more strong in my faith than I have been, not only from the readings of Reza Aslan and others, and from the great religion teachers I've had in my life. But absolutely, I think the fundamental thing that has grown my faith has to have been the way I spent my summer, that I believe in a merciful God. I believe that God reaches people in different ways, and that there are— that not every religion is equally true, but there are truths in all religions. And that through the study of other religions, I can see, wow, that is how God reaches that specific person. That is how God reaches this specific person. Because religion is the, as Raisa Aslan has said, the vehicle by which we try to communicate and understand the divine. And I think that there is not just one singular, very specific path to that divine entity, but there are many paths and many different understandings. So I think that my faith has definitely grown. And there is a quote from a 13th century monk— I can't remember his name off the top of my head— but he said that if you focus too narrowly on the path to God, then all you will ever experience Oh, I love that.

I love that. That's fantastic. Well, and Jazz, I want to talk about this a little bit, because when I, when I heard about what you were doing this summer, you and I connected on the phone, and I immediately thought of my good friend Janessa Ganswilder and the Euphrates Institute. And for those of you listening, I interviewed Janessa last year and the work that she was doing with the Euphrates Institute, which is all about creating a dialogue Specifically, it was created because of the Middle East, but it's really about creating a dialogue between and addressing differences. One of their mottos is, you know, turning the other into a brother. That could be political, that could be societal, right in your backyard. And so, Jas, when I heard about what you were doing, I connected you with Euphrates. And as a result of that, you have now started a Euphrates local chapter in your high school, Flint Powers Catholic, there in Flint. You guys have already met, I think, 3 times. So tell everyone sort of what that has been for you, what that's been like for you so far, and sort of what your intention is.

Well, I have to say, thank you. I was talking to you before we started the interview, and I will just repeat the same thing I said before, that I am so thankful every day that you were able to put me into contact with people at Euphrates because of all the things that I've done throughout my high school career, this has definitely been the best experience and the best way that I've been able to help other people, to dedicate, to dedicate my after-school time for extracurriculars to the Euphrates Institute. So with Euphrates at Powers, you know, there are chapters across the globe. globe, from Tanzania to India, from Palestine to Pakistan. And it was truly an honor to be able to bring Euphrates' message of turning the other into your brother, of informing, inspiring, and transforming to Powers Catholic High School, because Powers has been such a great experience for me. Not in some sort of I peaked in high school kind of way, but it has been just an amazing experience. I've had lifelong Friends and learn so much, and I think that Powers was great—a great pilot program for Euphrates branching off into high school chapters. Because while Powers is an amazing place, like I said before, it is predominantly white and it is predominantly Christian. And as kids are going off into college, as they're going off into the real world. Many of them have not had experiences with people of other cultures, of other religions, of other races, of other socioeconomic backgrounds. So Euphrates has been a vehicle by which change definitely is occurring at Powers already. And we have around 30 members from freshman to senior. And some events we've already done is that we had a moment of silence for Um, all those who have lost their lives in conflicts on the International Day of Peace. We had a Posters for Peace contest. Yesterday we hosted former Zimbabwean Supreme Court Justice Ahmed Ibrahim for a discussion on interreligious and intercultural dialogue. And some future plans we have include community service in local schools, go— showing different documentaries, inviting other speakers. Um, going to different ethnic food restaurants, attending services for other religions, and really trying to broaden the worldview of those who have joined it. And I think that Euphrates is such a beautiful program whose message needs to be spread far and wide, and I will, you know, do my best, to the best of my ability, to make sure that's spread. And I think that the only thing that I would change is that I wish I had known about it And as a senior, I may not see the full impact down the road of Euphrates because I truly believe with all my heart that it is a vehicle by which people's lives can be changed at Powers by exposing them to other walks of life. But it goes— my philosophy on that really goes back to one of my favorite quotes of all time. In fact, it's my senior quote. It's an old Greek proverb that says, a society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they shall never sit in. So even though I and the other kids who will be graduating soon may not see the long-term impact of Euphrates, I am just so thankful that I was able to be there at the starting point.

Yeah. And tell me, what kind of receptivity have you felt thus far? Because, you know, this is just, you know, a month or two into So what has the receptivity amongst other students felt like?

It's been very positive. It is. I was so happy when we had our first meeting back in September. I wore my tie to school, and I had put posters up everywhere. I had started on social media. I had been telling all my friends. I had put posters up. I put messages in the student bulletin on the announcements, and I was just so afraid that nobody was going to show up. Because I dedicated all this time to it. And as soon as, you know, time started to roll around for the meeting, just so many kids, not only my friends who knew that I was going to be mad if they didn't show up, but kids that I had not even spoken to before showed up and were so receptive to the message. So I'm very thankful for the student body at Powers Catholic for being open to Euphrates and being members of it. I think that We've had phenomenal support from the teachers. That's something that's been so great about Powers is when I graduate, of course, I'll miss the students and I'll miss some of the classes, but some of my best friends really have been the teachers. And the administration has been so on board with this. You know, I was nervous a little bit that, you know, some parents might think like, oh, the Euphrates Group, it's trying to convert people to other religions. But, you know, the administration has been so on our side and has been so helpful in allowing us to do what we need to do to spread our message and to make sure that the club is as successful as it possibly can be. So I'm so thankful for the administration, for the teachers, for the students, and the Powers Catholic community. You know, I have to also, of course, as I thanked before, my parents so much for helping out. You know, my mom designed our first posters that we hung up My brother even helped me put together an agenda for the first meeting. My brother is actually— there is a little bit of nepotism. My brother is the secretary of our club, so there's a little bit of nepotism, but he does a great job. I'm just so thankful for my family as well for being so supportive.

We can turn a blind eye to some of that nepotism right now, Jazz.

All right.

Yes. Moving forward, Jazz, what is What is the bigger vision that you have as far as the direction that you want to move in, as far as the impact that you ultimately want to have on the world?

Wow, that is a big question. Well, I think that since I was very young, I've always wanted to go into public service because I think it's the best way to help the greatest amount of people, and that has been so inspired by my family, by my faith. By heroes throughout my life. And I think that I was talking with my mother the other day about the fight for equality, and I said that I think that America's story has been one long cohesive story of searching for equality. You know, when our founders fought for independence from Great Britain. They were fighting for a more equal society. And of course they were not perfect. Of course many of them, many of them owned slaves and were not the best people. But I think that going back to my favorite quote, they planted seeds and so many generations, uh, in the future have, uh, harvested them. You know, the abolitionists fighting to, uh, get rid of the horrible institution of slavery, the suffragettes fighting for the rights of women, the civil rights activists throughout the '50s and '60s who fought in the Jim Crow South and in— and towards racial policies, racist policies in the North as well, for equality for race as well. And I think that this has been one long continuous story of striving for equality. And even today, of course, we are not equal, and we— some even say that we're more divided than ever. But I I think that the story of equality, America's story, is not finished. And I think that I see— I have so much hope in our generation. A lot of people say like, oh, these kids, they get all the trophies, they get participation trophies, they play on their phones too much. But I really do have faith in our generation. And I think that our generation can be the ones that finally give a happy ending to the story of equality. I think that's so important. And I think that, you know, throughout my life, I don't know where my path will finally end up, but I do know that wherever I go throughout my life, you know, my dream is to hold elected office someday. I will never forget what inspired me in the very beginning, the idea of helping others, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to recognize our differences and respect them, but focus on our commonality and ultimately try to make the world a better place than how we found it. So I think that going back to my favorite quote, the Greek proverb that a society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they shall never sit in. I may not be able to see the tree planted who future generations will sit under, but just like Euphrates, And just like my religious quest, I'm just so happy to have planted it.

Well, Jas, my nieces convince me every time I see them that you are going to be president one day. And I tell you what, I mean this in a very non-patronizing way because, oh, you know, he's a young man. And the level of maturity, the level of Compassion and empathy that you speak with and you live with and you bring to the table, in no pandering or, you know, sarcastic way. I couldn't think of a better skill set that we need in a leadership position right now. And so, if you throw your name in the ring in 2020, Jas, or '24 or '28, or whenever you want to get involved, I think you're gonna have a lot of people wanting to be a part of what you stand for and what you represent. And for all the amazing stuff you're doing, just keep it up, brother.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, yeah. And so, Jazz, just to wrap things up here, how can, how can people get a hold of you if they want to know more about your project or know more about the work you're doing with Euphrates? What's the best way for them to be in touch with you?

Yeah, well, just let me say again, thank you so much for your kind words. And I think that, you know, with everything I do, I try to make it a group project because I think that it is important not just to have one person as the figurehead but to have this idea of everyone working together. So, you know, with Euphrates, I always tell people, even though I'm the one that always talks about it the most, Euphrates is not the Jazz Martis Club. It is Euphrates. It is, you know, I do not want want to be, you know, I, I detest the idea of a personality cult, but thank you so much for your kind words. And as for getting a hold of me, so a lot of people always wonder, uh, my real name is Jasper, Jasper Martus, but everyone calls me Jazz. So, uh, with social media, uh, both Instagram is Jazz Martus, J-A-Z-M-A-R-T-U-S, and Twitter is the same, but It's Jazz R. Martis, and my email is jazzmartis@gmail.com. So thank you so much again for having me, and it truly is an honor to be on here.

Well, Jazz, thanks so much. And again, I know you and I will stay in touch.

Of course.

Between a personal connection and a family connection, it's going to be hard for me not to keep tabs on you. Well, thank you so much.

You do fantastic work as well. I really do mean that. I think you do You do great things and very important work.

I appreciate that, Jas. Thanks so much, man. I know you're a busy guy. Thanks so much for jumping on The Yap.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

There you have it, episode 87 of The Weekly Yap with Jas Martis. How cool is he? Just so much fun talking with him. Make sure you check out all the great work he's up to. Remember Rack Friday, rackfriday.com. Come to our website, liveyesand.com, and we are going to rack up after Thanksgiving. So there you have it, everybody. Again, if you really like the podcast, and for those of you new for the first time, go on to iTunes and leave a review or a rating. Always greatly appreciated. And have a wonderful, wonderful— that's the worst. Have a wonderful, wonderful day, everyone. Thanks for listening to the app. Love you, Juju.