How an Immigrant Mindset Built a 100% Commission Empire

It was 100% commission role, which was pretty scary at the time. But you have to be willing to bet on yourself. You have to be willing to take chances. And I'm willing that I'm going to work harder than my competition, I'm going to work harder than peers in industry and I'm going to grind.

Hey, welcome back to the Broker's Voice. Andy Neary, co founder and CEO of Complete Game Consulting. I'm excited. Today I am joined by Mark Chai, co founder and national director of sales for Arkon benefits. Mark, welcome aboard.

Thanks for having me, Andy. Really appreciate your time today.

Yeah, you bet. We're gonna, we're gonna shine a spotlight today on Arkon. But before we get there, I wanna, I want people to hear your story a little bit. I think it's a cool story. Offline, you had mentioned your father was an immigrant from China and found his way over here and ultimately created a pretty successful life for himself. Talk about that a little bit and what impact that's had on your entre entrepreneurial journey in this industry.

Yeah, absolutely, Andy. I mean, it's definitely, you know, a unique story and obviously we all have different stories, but for me personally, it shaped who I am today. And you know, I fast, I look back at my life growing up in New Jersey in the 1980s and my dad was a Chinese immigrant, my mom was a church organist. I'm one of five kids. And you know, it was very blessed. My dad had a very successful business that he started back in the 1970s. It was a software business. He worked a lot of banks in Wall Street. Fast forward in the early 90s they went through bankruptcy and, and it was very strange time for me being like in eighth grade, being 13 years old and Thanksgiving that year had no one. And we typically had like 60, 70 people at our house. And I remember vividly finding out, I think it was like 1993, 1994, that we had to move to Florida. And it was all because like my parents went through bankruptcy and they had to start all over. And Florida's one of the two states that you can buy a house. You know, Homestead act allows you to keep that house through a bankruptcy. And my dad had to pick himself back up. Now at that age, being 13, it was a very impressionable time in my life. And I kind of realized at an early, early time in my, in my life that anything can be taken for you at any time. And so I had these core values that kind of led me through high school and through college where it's like, I'm going to work my ass off, operate with a high degree of integrity. And those are the two things that no one can take from me ever. And so that kind of stuck to me and stuck to who I was throughout my entire career. I mean, I went to a private school in high school. I worked all through high school. I went to the University of Miami. Go Canes.

I was just going to say you're probably a happy man right now with the playoff situation.

Yeah, my, my middle son and I are looking to go into Houston to College Station for the game and man, ticket prices are expensive, so hopefully they'll drop soon. But. Super excited. But you know, candidly speaking, I worked all through college and you know, it really shaped who I am and really my career in group insurance, it was really the pillar that made me, made me successful. I started my career in group insurance, you know, 20, I guess it was 22 years ago. So, you know, all the things that happened, my dad led me to where I am today. And I couldn't be more grateful for those experiences. Although they were really tough, it really hardened for me as an individual and really built me the man I am today.

Well, two things I want to unpack on that. Number one, as a college football fan, I still think the greatest 30 for 30 ESPN has ever done was the one about the U in the 80s. That was a badass team back then. But it's, you know, when you said you grew up in New Jersey in the 80s from. With an immigrant father, it really reminded me, I don't know if you know who Gary Vaynerchuk is. Gary V. I've followed him for years, but same situation, grew up in New Jersey, family migrated from, immigrated from Russia and so very similar story. And I think what that really teaches, you know, I didn't have that background, but, but that work ethic of that ability to just grind is something I think any child of an immigrant understands that most people in this country don't.

Yeah, it's definitely something that was ingrained in me earlier on. And just being part of a culture that's different from everyone else and understanding that, you know, I'm a first generation American. I'm super grateful for having opportunities, but it's not just having opportunities, it's taking advantage of them. And it's really something that's kind of driven me as an individual to kind of realize that you have to seize the moment. And throughout my, my career and my life, there's been opportunities that I was presented and I Always, you know, knew in the back of my mind, there's one life to live, and you have to do the best out of. You have to make the most out of that. And to me, now, I'm a father of three. I got a beautiful wife, I got three boys. It's like I want to provide for my kids the same way my dad provided to me, but at the same time, still instill the values that make, make me the man I am today. And obviously, I think the biggest challenge we all have is, is being that role model, that parent and that leader to, to the younger generation.

Well, let's have, let's, let's, let's transition over. You know, you talked about being. When you're an immigrant, there's definitely a cultural shock. Right. You moved down to Florida, I think you said, age 13?

Yeah, I was in eighth grade. Middle eighth grade, like during Christmas break. It was crazy experience.

You spent basically from 13 through college in Florida. You get into the insurance industry, age 21, and you find yourself in the middle of nowhere. Kansas.

Yeah.

You were a carrier rep, I believe.

Yep.

Talk about that change. What was that like?

Yeah, I remember vividly. I was, I was a senior at University of Miami, was career fair. And I remember GE Financial was on campus and, and you know, it was, GE was a huge brand back in the, you know, back in the day. And I had an interview and the opportunity was being a group rep. And I remember vividly flying to Atlanta and I was on a flight with another individual who was applying for the same job. And lo and behold, his girlfriend at the time was a rep in the industry. So he shared with me. He's like, hey, no matter what happens in the interview, you should get in this industry. It's a great industry to get into. It's kind of a hidden gem. And so through the interview process, I told the, the hiring manager that I was open to relocating. And I think I specifically mentioned, like, New York, Louisiana, San Francisco, Chicago. Well, they came back and said, how about Kansas? And I don't think I shared this before, but I was going to law school. Like, I had a legal studies major. I was a major in legal studies and business management. I took my lsat, I got into law school at uf. And I came home and I told my parents, I think I'm going to go to Kansas to sell insurance. And they looked at me like they were so disappointed. Like, you worked your ass off to be an insurance sales rep. And I told them, like, I think this is a little different than what you think it is. So lo and behold, I fly to Kansas City in Memorial Day weekend, and right after my sister got married in New York back in 2003 and had a great time in Kansas City, met my, you know, future boss and future colleagues and. And I came home from that trip and I told my parents I'm moving, and they're like, all right, we're not going to stop you, because I'm too, you know, they knew I was too stubborn to listen to them. And it was the best decision I made. I mean, I covered Wichita, Springfield, Missouri, you know, Manhattan, Kansas, the Little Apple.

The Little Apple, yep.

Garden City, Dodge City, Hutchinson, Salina. And that was my territory. It was a very much rookie territory. But I learned a ton about being a group rep. I learned a ton about building relationships with people that you never met before and have no real kind of common connection. And had a really successful career in Kansas City. I was rookie of the year. I made Leaders club four years and eventually led me back to New York City through the acquisition of Sun Life of Genworth at the time. So, yeah, I was very fortunate to have that opportunity to kind of, you know, build from the ground up, so to speak.

I can imagine your first time you drove into Garden City going, yeah, we're not in Miami anymore.

It was an eight and a half hour drive. And it was very intentional. Andy. I did that trip the week that the rest of my team was at Leaders conference, and I was a rookie rep, so I think they went to like, I don't know, either Mexico or somewhere in the Caribbean. I think it was St. John actually, in the Caribbean. And I'm driving eight hours to. To Dodge City, Garden City, thinking, I'm never gonna make this trip again. I'm never gonna miss that trip again

because, yeah, that is a good motivation. That's a great way of doing it. I like that. Okay, well, let's. Let's now transition. So the entrepreneurial bug gotcha and you went on to co found Archon, which is what I want to talk to you about today. What led you to that moment of leaving the stability of making good money as a carrier rep to. I'm going to burn the boats and start my own thing.

Yeah, I was very fortunate because I had great leaders in my career and I learned a lot from all of them. And I think back about, you know, Covid, and that was really when this kind of transition. At the time I was in the Bay Area, I had seen firsthand kind of the impact that Covid was having. On work and remote to work and hybrid work. And I kind of felt like it was going to drastically change just how we operate as companies. I saw firsthand how insurance carriers kind of struggled with managing their business, managing margins and kind of like reworking amendments. And I've had 20 at the time, I guess, 18 years of experience working with various carriers and also working with brokers and gas. And keenly speaking, I felt like there wasn't anyone that was really providing a perspective of providing value back to our carrier partners from a standpoint of how do you find ways to reduce their, you know, expenses, how do you find ways to increase their profit margins, how do you find ways to provide a better member experience through ancillary benefits? And obviously there's a lot of very, very successful gas in the marketplace. There's, you know, g. That create a ton of value. We really wanted to focus a little differently from what we saw in the marketplace. And I think it was, you know, an epiphany moment for me when, you know, Covid hit is like, this is almost a sign, like the world's chaos. And it's like, comes, you know, some of the best businesses are formed during chaotic situations. And it was also a situation for. For me to kind of realize, like, you know, what it's. I've been in the business long enough. It's time to, like, better myself. And, you know, it was 100% commission role, which was pretty scary at the time. But leaving a very good job and a great livelihood was a risk. But it was also a risk I was willing to take, partly because what happened to my father and the fact that he worked his way up, built his own business. I mean, he worked as a teacher back in the 70s. He was working as a professor in mathematics. And then he worked in Apollo 13. He worked in a different, you know, NASA projects. And then eventually he bet on himself and started his own company and it was super successful. And then it, you know, went through a tough time, went through bankruptcy. But I learned a lot about you have to be willing to bet on yourself. You have to be willing to take chances. And. And I'm willing that I'm will, I'm going to work harder than my competition. I'm going to work harder than, you know, peers in industry. And I'm going to grind. And part of that's my upbringing. And, you know, you have to bet on yourself, too.

I just put a post out there yesterday on LinkedIn that said, hey, if you're hoping somebody else, you're waiting. You're you're waiting for somebody else to invest in you to create career growth. You either don't have a problem we're solving or you don't care enough to solve it. And, and betting on your. And it would be so easy for you because you experienced your dad going through what the family went through that you would avoid that at all cost and retreat to the safety of the W2. But you didn't, which I thought that, that's very, very applaudable because I think a lot of people would have retreated because they went through that as a kid. And what I'm interested. You talked about commission only. You guys actually have, I believe, a 100% commission only model.

Yeah, we don't pay our. Go ahead.

I was gonna say, why is that so important in your opinion?

Yeah, I think, you know, you think about motivation and financial incentives like they're obviously super important in, in our economy, in our, you know, capitalist environment. And I think you get to the point where there's a lot of people that, you know, have a safety net and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. Like there's, it's a great structure. When we were designing Arkon, I think it was really important for us to figure out how we could be a magnet. How, how can we attract other Mark Chai, so to speak, across the country. How can you attract that, you know, that entrepreneur at heart that really wanted to bet on themselves. And it was really something that was important to us because it allowed us also to kind of weed out maybe, maybe people that weren't the right fitness. And there's a little bit of burn your boats mentality. I mean, you have to have an incredible level of confidence. You have to have a very supportive family and partner. And it's not for everyone. And you know, there's different life cycles where this would have been, this would not have been for me personally. I have a very supportive wife that, you know, allowed me to do this. And we realized that there's probably other individuals across the country that are going through similar things and have similar, similar desires. And Kentley, speaking as we approach our brokers and clients, I think there's some value in being able to have that honest conversation about the buck stops with me. I'm fully accountable for the experience that I provide to you as a partner. If you don't find value in the services I provide, you fire us. And that has a direct impact on how we're compensated and a direct impact on our livelihood. And best be damn sure we work our asses off to deliver an incredible experience because we want people to hire us over and over again. We want people to talk about us and share our stories. And for us, every, every at bat is a chance to hit a home run at the same time, like we can't allow, you know, we, we can't allow us to fail. And I think there's a different type of level of focus when that is, you know, kind of like your livelihood's tied based on the success that you personally have and experience that you provide to not just brokers, but also insurance carriers. Because I think it's really important to understand our value is really focused on both brokers and, and the carers we work with. And it's a common focus that we have at Arkon all across the organization.

Yeah, I agree. I think in our industry, a lot of organizations have a salary and commission model. Right. And I've been a benefactor of it. And it allows people to be fed very quickly and that can lead to complacency. I'd be curious, given the fact you are 100% commission only, I have to believe that has impacted the type of talent you recruit. I bet you you guys are recruiting somebody who comes in driven and hungry because they know that's what the model's going to be. They want to bet on themselves.

Absolutely. And it's a long process to vet out the right individuals. And I would tell you, as often as we try to recruit, we try to talk people out of it too. I mean, I spend as much time convincing that that first year or two is a longer road. It is a big step back you make financially. It's not for everyone. And you have to be laser confident in not just you as an individual, but also your relationships. Like, you can't really hide if you feel like, oh, I have this great relationship or, you know, there's relationships with brokers I know, and they like working with me, that that might be the case, but they might also love the care you work at with that as well. So there's a difference between, you know, having that conviction and then at the same time, you have to constantly. You're constantly tested to make sure that you are continually delivering. And I think there's no greater peace of mind for a broker when they understand our model that it's kind of like an owner operator is like you're not just dealing with an employee. You're not just dealing with a salesperson that's trying to quote, unquote, sales. You. You're dealing with a Partner that wants to help you grow, that wants to understand how you operate, that wants to find ways for you to. That we want to find ways to help operationalize agencies or business owners or account managers. We want to deliver peace of mind to the people we work with because it's really important for us. And I think it's, you know, it's interesting because if you focus on like culture, like culture is the big winner in business in 2025, heading into 2026. I mean, we talk about AI, we talk about innovation, we've talked about technology, we could talk about things that are happening that are outside of our impact. But having a unified culture and mission is like one of the most important things that we work at at Archon and I think is, you know, candidly speaking, a huge competitive edge we have in the marketplace.

Well, let's, let's dive in right there because, you know, most of our listeners are advisors, right? They're insurance professionals, mix of commercial and benefits. I think a lot of advisors commoditize GA's. If you've seen one, you've seen them all. In your opinion, are there some common things brokers misunderstand when they think about how GA should be supporting them?

That's a great question, Andy. And it's something that we thought a lot about when we were launching Arkon. And I feel like, you know, there's a lot of really good, you know, business partners out there. There's a lot of good gas out there. I think ultimately thinking about like, what is, what is the value they're creating for you as an organization? What's the value they are creating for you, your members? What are the value they're creating for your team members? What are the value they create for, you know, the end consumer? And I look no further away, you know, the tragic events that happened a year ago with Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, which, you know, he was assassinated on the streets of New York. And it shared with us like how much, you know, animosity there might be towards insurance companies or insurance executives. I think we have a mission to create value and, and you know, create peace of mind for everyday Americans that rely on us. If you think about our business, employee benefits means a benefit to employees. And you know, I had that background in legal studies and pre law where I realized that at the end of the day we were selling contracts and we have to help our brokers and our account managers we work with understand with the contracts that they're putting in place. I mean, I've seen thousands of RFPs in my time that have said things like match current, match the current benefits. And when it comes to ancillary benefits, it's like, okay, I want you to match the schedule, right? And here's a benefit summary. And kind of when you peel back the onion, it's like, well, there's all these other provisions that may be in that plan. And you may not understand the impact that you have when you have a dental plan that has composite fillings that alternate to amalgams. And that's not what they call it. They call it alternate benefit treatment. And the impact that has could have a huge impact on how a claim is paid. And, and the experience that a consumer has or everyday American has when they go to the dentist's office and they find out they need to pay out of pocket for something they thought was covered. And so, you know, we as a general agency have that laser focus on ancillary benefits. And for us, it starts with the contract language. It starts with understanding what do you have in force, what is the intent. We spend a lot of times, we call it reverse engineering that RFP process and really understanding, you know, the psychology of the actual client customer. What are their needs, what are their goals, what are their desires. And obviously, we know that there's so many different ways you can build and draft an RFP that, you know, in our eyes, the more accurate we can be, the more precise we can be with building that with the correct intentions will lead to a better experience for not just brokers and account managers, but also for the carriers we work with, because that reduces the amount of amendments they might have to process, that reduces the amount of claims that are maybe paid in accordance to contract, but have to be amended because it's not with what the policyholder had intent. So, you know, there's a lot of different ways. I think if, if you really boil down who you're working with, like, make sure you find the value that they're creating for you and your team and make sure there's, you know, and I would say a true partnership for what you need and what you're getting from the GA's you work with.

Yeah, I, I think, I think it's a bigger issue at the ancillary benefit level. I think there's a lot of advisors out there who just overlook it. It is what it is. Check the box offer if you want it, great. If you don't, who cares? I worked at an agency years ago that felt that way. And I think part of that feeling came from the Medical carriers who would come in and say oh by the way, if you offer dental and vision and life and critical illness, we'll take 3% off the medical. And we just commoditized ancillary like they're nothing. And I think to your point, there's a lot of strategy that can come in when you apply a consultative approach to ancillary benefits. It's not something to just check the box with. And so I'd be curious because I gotta believe done right Ga like Archon could actually help advisors win new business as a wedge if you do it right.

Andy, it's funny you mentioned that. That was one of the pretenses we had when we launched Archon is we felt like, you know, where we could really be a home run for people is finding ways and creating opportunities for them to grow their books of business to win BOR and I think that's one of the trends I've seen in the marketplace. There's been tons of acquisition in our industry, right. We've had a ton of consolidation. Regional brokers, national brokerage firms, private equity money getting involved in our industry. And the common denominator is like how do you grow?

Right?

How do you grow? And growth could be adding new lines of coverage. Growth could be finding ways to standardize compensation models and making sure that you have consistent compensation structures with the carriers you work with or transparent compensation models. I guess the other aspect too is like how do you win and attract new clients. And I've always thought that, you know, leveraging our products properly is a great way to differentiate a brokerage firm or a broker. I mean I think ultimately I've never been a broker but I talked to tons of brokers in my career. It's a lot of times coming up with ideas and talking to clients prospects about things that are they're not getting right, you know, exposing with what life could be if you were the broker versus the current broker record. And I think going through like an aud I look at like disability contracts for example and I had an opportunity to work at a great company called MGIS Medical Group Insurance Services. And that taught me a lot about reading through the contracts as it relates to physician groups and really uncovering the differences in specific words and languages in the contract and how that kind of impact and potential claims being paid. And so you know, it's going through an audit and identifying certain provisions that maybe a client wasn't aware of and explaining how that has an impact on a potential claim is a pretty eye opening experience. And I think in our industry we're all busy, right? Like account managers are super busy this time of year with implementations, with open Blow it, with an admin systems and all the different things that take up the world. Like, who has time to actually do this consultation and do this analysis and do, and not just do the analysis, but actually provide it, present it in a way that it's easy to explain to an HR manager or a CFO and to be able to articulate the impact of it. And so I think that's where we've created kind of an opportunity for us, is, hey, we're here to help and operationalize your existing business, but we also want to help those producers that are hunting for new business to help find ideas or ways for them to create a different experience and hopefully attract new clients. Because the more our brokers win, the more we win. And that's the unique thing about our model.

And I think that's important for brokers to hear. I think a lot of brokers think of GA's like, oh, you're going to be there when I have, when I need renewal quotes. And they forget that they can actually be a very good support on the front end when you're trying to win new business. I think I wanted everybody to hear that. All right, I'm going to finish here with a couple of questions back to you from an entrepreneurial thought leadership perspective, if you're cool with it.

Sure.

So I'm curious, as a leader of an organization like Archon, who runs a model where Everybody's starting at zero right on January 1st, I was a carrier rep for a very short time of a captive. You start at zero on January 1, no matter what kind of year you had the previous year. How do you keep a team motivated when that's, when everybody's starting over at zero on day, on day one of the new year?

Yeah, it's, it's, it's unique. I mean, I think we're a little different because we have a, we have a structure with our sales team in which they are building blocks of business and they're growing.

Okay.

You know, it's not necessarily the start at zero mentality, but it's actually, you know, I think it's really powerful knowing, like you're building something that you can grow with and you're building something that it perpetuates. And so, yeah, there is a, there is 100% start at zero when you first start. And it takes time to build that trust. And we're very much believers on like, Test us out. Give us an opportunity. We're not. We would, of course, love to work with a broker on your entire book or, you know, manage all your business. But, like, test this on one case, test us on an opportunity, and maybe that case is renewing as is. That's fine. Like, that happens. 90% of our business groups don't move. But really we're trying to build that experience and, you know, showcase our, you know, competitive advantages in the marketplace. And, you know, it. It takes a number of years to get going, but I think ultimately the type of people we attract had that entrepreneur spirit and mindset where they're super ambitious as well.

Gotta have that entrepreneurial mindset. That. That's why I wanted to ask that question, which. Which leads me to last one here, which is, okay, you've seen the growth of Arkon. Given your upbringing and everything you've been through, what does betting on yourself mean today? That it versus what it may have meant to you 10 years ago?

Oh, man, that's a. That's a great question. You know, I think ultimately betting on myself is really having that confidence that, you know, you can have an impact in people's lives. And I think, you know, we've really tried to focus on Archon and our culture really about a common mission, and I think that's really important. A couple years ago, we hired a business coach to really help us shape that culture. And, you know, we're a remote organization. Every single team member. Archon works home, works remote, works in the market, they. They service. And having that, you know, remote environment, you know, it was really important to have that. That common mission. So for us, it was about, you know, we came to the conclusion that was about delivering peace of mind, and that was the focus. And peace of mind wasn't just to brokers and account managers, because obviously that's really important. It's also to carry reps and account managers and then ultimately to everyday Americans. So I think about betting on yourself is, you know, we really have an impact on, like, how do we create a better experience for the people we work with? And I think ultimately, you know, no matter where you are in your career and no matter who you are, like, there's always an opportunity to have an impact in someone's life. And I think taking that approach of saying, you know, I'm never gonna be complacent with what I'm doing, I could always go the extra step. Whether you're an account manager at a brokerage firm where you're a producer, whether you're a carrier rep, like how can you have an impact in someone else's life? And I think ultimately like betting on yourself really comes down to how do I create value for someone else in the world I live in.

Love hearing that man. Great way to wrap up Mark. If there's a broker or an agency listening in that says okay, I like Mark's story. He resonates with me. I want to learn more about Arkon and how we might be able to partner with them as a ga. What's the best way to get in touc with you?

That's a great question Andy. So you can definitely follow us on LinkedIn. I know LinkedIn's a great medium. We have a great company page. We have a, you know you can find me on LinkedIn as well at Mark at Markchi and all of our team members at Archon are have a robust profile on LinkedIn. So I'd say follow us on LinkedIn. Give us a follow on LinkedIn and appreciate the time today Andy.

Mark, it's been awesome. If you're tuning in and are looking for a GA partner that goes above and beyond, not only to provide you support at times like renewals, but also is dedicated to try to help you win new business. Make sure you check out Arkon. Mark Chai thanks Mark.