How Being the Middleman in Real Estate Can Make You $500,000 EASY in Under 6 Months!

Welcome to the real estate newsroom. Today's headlines is about a tenant who owes a landlord $41,000 in rent. Barry, let's take a look.

Landlords say they see frequently if they fall into arrears with the tenant not paying, the bank's going to come after them. You know, within three months, the bank could say, you know what? We're going to take this property away from you.

People don't consider that when they don't.

Yeah, that's crazy. 32nd floor of this Etobicoke condo building.

For several years, people losing that more than $46,000 for rent and utilities system.

Lets her to be there. Finally got an order requiring her to move out.

So look who's the owner supporting our story.

She hired a lawyer. And on Tuesday, the landlord and tenant board ordered a stay of that eviction, meaning she can remain indefinite.

Oh, crazy.

They said she can remain indefinitely.

That's the worst part about it. Without paying.

Wow. So. So indefinitely, meaning obviously it's a time.

Period on it until the next court date or until she pays or until whatever.

Now, in situations like that, no, he can't recoup the 41 because she probably don't have it anyway.

He ain't never gonna recoup that 41, bro.

That's a year loss in liability to your investment. A lot of people don't understand that. That's deep.

Yeah. So this is one of the things that people don't understand. Tenants don't take into consideration. Landlords are making an investment on the property. It may be their last investment to buy that property, to buy that house. They already might have put 40, 50, $100,000 into it. They're expecting to get paid the rent, to get paid back.

Yeah, most definitely. That's their lifeline. That's really why I stay away from that side of the business. I understand that it could be lucrative, but you almost got to get it perfect, you know, because you're going to have other things like maintenance and issues like that. But to have a tenant not paying an accumulated debt of over 41,000 and for that to be an extended stay, to add more like, that's crazy a lot of us can't even comprehend right now. Let's say they get to $100,000 in debt.

Yeah, that's.

That's a. That's, that's a heck of a loss. For real. I was gonna say a hell of a loss. Can we curse on here?

No, you said a hell of a lot. That's enough. We understand what you talking about?

Yeah, no, that's a major. That's a major loss, though. And that's why I do try to stay away from that side of business. And that's why I really fell in love with the wholesaling, because it's, you know, funny. Hands off.

It's funny. So I gotta introduce you today's guest guys on the show, Byron Gatsby. Gatsby, he's the wholesaler that saved me in all my investments in Detroit. I talk about wholesaling, I talk about hiring two wholesalers a lot. This is the guy who actually saved me, saved my portfolio, and allowed me to bring a lot of that cash that I put into Detroit back home to New York. So that's my introduction of you, bro. But introduce yourself to the audience. Let them know who you are and what you do.

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. And I always say, I appreciate you so much because even with you saying what we were able to do together in Detroit, you inspired me coming in there. So I gotta give you that before I even introduce myself.

Okay?

But that is Byron. It's actually Byron Gatsby. And I get that from all the ladies. Shout out y' all when they see. When they hear my name. Yeah, they always say that, Byron. So I just kind of ran with it. It gives power to my name. So y' all, check me out. All social platforms, Byron underscore Gatsby. And like Charles was saying, you know, we've been working together and partnering since 2019, and it's been a pleasure. And he's been a major inspiration to myself personally as well as everything that I had going on already with the wholesaling business in Detroit. And what I mean by that is we actually met through one of my direct mail letters, right? Yeah. So one form of marketing and wholesale, and we'll get. We'll get a little deeper into it as we go along, but one form of marketing is simply sending out direct mail letters to homeowners, right, that want to purchase their home.

So here's what happened. I bought the house on Cherry Lawn, I bought the house on Narden, renovated those, and I went through hell with those, right? The land bank gave me the opportunity to buy a block of properties on Wayburn Street. So now. So I got those two rented out, but I'm still catching hell, right? I spent way too much money. I got ripped off way too many times, and I'm like, catching hell out there, man. I didn't know the city was like that. But I got those two up. So Now I got this huge investment. I own a block of properties, and I started to figure out that you don't have to renovate the house completely before you get the release interest to sell it. So here we go.

Now that's actually a jail. That anytime I talk to people about how you do your thing.

Yeah.

That you were able to figure out that loophole. Because a lot of people, when it comes to dealing with the land bank, they require a lot more, and they do a lot before they get those releases, and it actually puts them upside down in their investment, and a lot of people lose on those. So when I.

When you.

When you show me that you were able to get those releases like that, I'm like, that's a major key to the success when it comes to dealing with the land bank, because that's most issues people run into is getting those releases.

I had it. I had it myself. I was renovating properties completely and then taking pictures and going through, like, all the steps top to bottom. But once I got the whole block of properties, they were telling me, just send pictures of the furnace. Just send pictures of the bathroom. They were like, I don't want to see your whole house. I just need to see what's on the checklist. The light bulb went off after, like, 200,000.

Way too much. Yeah.

That I was doing way too much. So I wanted to start to bring some money back home, right. Because I had so much money invested. So I saw Shout out to Jessica. I forgot her last name.

Jessica. Jessica Bradley.

Jessica Bradley. Shout out to Jessica Bradley in Detroit. She's the first wholesaler I worked with. She sold the first two houses that I had on the block. And the reason I was interested in working with her was because I saw her. She's the first wholesaler that I saw bundle price houses, right? So she was just marketing like crazy. And I would always see her stuff. It's like two houses for 80,000. It's like two houses for eighty thousand or one house for fifty. I was like, oh, that's killer.

Yeah, that's a good strategy.

So I asked her. I'm like, all right, Jessica, do me a favor. I need you. I got the whole block, right? I need you to get me, like $50,000 each house. I only paid 5,000 for them, right? So she got the first two sold. I'm like, all right, now I'm about to come up. Right? Now I'm about to come up. So I asked her to sell the other ones, and she.

She.

There was like a lag it was. It was a lag like. Like she couldn't move them. So I'm like, all right, what do I do? Here comes this letter. I get, right? Handwritten, everything. I'm like, you know, this is different. I'm not used to seeing the letter too. I opened the letter. It was a wholesale letter to my house. I don't know how I got to my real address because I don't really use my real address ever. I typically use, for most properties, a UPS store. Like, nobody knows where I live, so. And I fixed that too, by the way. So I got the letter, I opened it. I'm like, hey, bro, I just want to give you a shout out because, like, you got me to open this thing.

You told me that too. You was like. It was your letter that got my attention. And I'm like, great. I was excited about it. And I remember we just. We were discussing the property on Wayburn, which was the first property, and you asked me because in wholesaling, like, I always tell people I'm not a wholesaler, I'm an investor that utilizes the wholesaling strategy, right?

So you.

You told me, you asked me, you like, are you gonna actually buy this property or are you gonna wholesale it, right? So at that point, I gotta come on and be honest and I' here's the thing.

Most wholesalers or most people doing the wholesale strategy will never say. They never want to admit that they. That they're wholesaling. And I'm an investor. It doesn't matter to me.

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But to a lot of in the. In the industry, it wholesalers just that title does come with a stigma because if. If someone's in the industry and they're wholesaling and they don't have all their numbers right, they don't have all their figures right, then they're locking up these homeowners properties for months over months and they're not able to get them sold. And so it has created kind of like a stigma in the industry. So when homeowners hear wholesalers now, a lot of people do run away from it, versus if they feel like they're dealing with the buyer themselves, who is going to buy the property and close out on it. The thing about it is, you want to be able to get the job done.

That's all I care about.

Yeah.

All I care about. To all the wholesalers out there with me. If you ever run across Charles Noonan in any of your property searches, just call me. Hey, I'm a wholesaler. I want to try to move this property for you. I'm cool with it.

Yeah. And that's what you told me when we first linked up. You said, hey, if you do what you say you can do and get this property going, then I got the whole block.

Did we have to wrestle for a little while? Like, bro, are you buying it? Or you just. Yeah, we went, are you not buying? Are you buying? We went through that for a while.

What it was. What we came to was you asked me was I willing to put the earnest money deposit down to be able to do what I said I can do.

Yeah.

And I'm like, yeah, I can. I know I'm gonna sell it. So I put the earning money deposit down, and he was like, if you sell this one, then I'll have you sell the rest of my property. So I got it going a couple weeks, and it was open door. It was open door from there. And when I really sold that property, I couldn't believe what you were actually doing. Oh, I knew you were an investor, clearly. Right. Own property in Detroit. I knew you were invested from New York, but when I found out what you were actually doing in the market, I couldn't believe it. Because I've been in the industry, My brother's been in the industry, but we don't run into a lot of people who are utilizing the land banks system as an actual strategy to invest in real estate, you know?

Yeah. Hey, man, the prices of New York are so high, we got to think outside of the box.

Yeah, for sure.

But here's what happened, too. Did you sell that first one on your own, or was. Or did I ask you to partner with Jessica?

No, I mean Jessica to down the line. I sold the first one on Wayburn. Then actually that. Yeah, I saw it on my own. And then actually the other way. Burn property you had. While I was showing one buyer, the one I sold down the street, they were working on the other one. Yeah, they were working on Another house on the block. So I walked down there, and I talked to the contractors that were mine. They weren't your contractors. They were contractors on a block working on a house up the street. But those contractors told me the. The invest that bought the property that they were working on. They introduced me to him, and he ended up buying your other properties that.

Were nice, nice, nice. So you sold one too, bro. Yo, everybody ate off of.

Off of that street.

Which is. Which is which I love, right? Yeah, me too. So here's my strategy. And here was my strategy back then. And tell me what you thought about it. I hired two wholesalers to speed up the process. And then I said, because Jessica, she got the other ones, but she was just a little. She wasn't as fast as. As Byron was, right?

Byron gonna get the job done by.

Ran by Ransomware Properties and ran with him, right? So I'm like, look, bruh, I got a. A wholesaler that I'm working with already. Is there a way that you guys can work together? Because I know Byron has a group of investors. She has a group of investors. They're probably not the same group. I don't know the wholesaling strategy.

No, but that's how it is, right? You got your own people somewhere in.

Different countries, whatever, right? And she has. So I said, look, why don't we do this? Let's work together as a team. Whoever sells the property first, you get what you add on top. Whoever does not sell a property, just for marketing it, I'll give you $1,000. It worked like a charm, bro. The whole block got sold. But I gotta say, shout out to my guy.

Cause he sold all of it too. No knocks with Jessica. Jessica, I love you for sure. We did work together very well. It was no conflict. Like, Charles had us in a group message together. We communicated together, and we got the job done. But I did sell all the properties.

He did, like, wipe the whole slate clean, bro. And then from there, right? And I know from there it was up, right? So now I got even. Let's just say $20,000 per house. I got 100 for the first. For the. The first two, and then like $20,000 each house that I bought for $5,000. So now I'm. Now I'm, like, feeling Detroit a little bit more. Because at first I was not contractors ripping me off like crazy. So I put that plan together in place. And then immediately after I sold those, I bought a house on Mac and B. Wick. He said, what the hell are you doing out Here. He said, y', all, I can't sell that. I said, what's wrong with Mac and B Wick? The neighborhood looked nice because I'm from New York. So we don't. We. Where there are houses in New York, there's money and less crime. Like the poverty and stuff is more so in projects and in bad neighborhoods and things like that. But if you see nice private houses, three bedrooms, two and a half baths, a basement, a yard, it's not a whole lot of crime going on. So I'm just buying now because I got Byron with me, right? Byron's on the team, so I'm buying anything. He said, bro, that house is in rap songs. Don't you listen to rap? I said, nah, not out here. I said, we don't get that music out here. So he sold that. That was a two family.

That was a multi family owned Mac and B Wig. Yep. I sold that to Tony. Shout Out Tony. He's another investor. I got a lot of investors, but I'm a shot of my. We did Mac and B Wig. And then I remember you brought Manny and the properties that he had. Yeah, I remember all the streets. I know I sold a lot of properties working with you, and I was really inspired just because you were doing all of this remotely. Like, you really built a team remotely. And if I took away anything from seeing you work is that you were persistent, you were consistent. But you put together a team in a market while you were all the way in New York. And I saw you do that by providing opportunities. Like you came into the Detroit market where I was already working and provided more opportunity for me. Jessica, the title companies, you brought business ultimately to Detroit by figuring out the land bank situation. So I always, like, give it. Like I said, it wasn't people local locally that I had ever met that were, like, promoting the land Bank. Like, nobody was talking. I didn't even learn about the land bank until I met you. Yeah.

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There's a lot of people that learned about land banks through me.

Yeah, I bet.

Which I'm just. I'm happy to share that information because the more we share. Right. The more that comes back to us.

Yeah, most definitely. And in our city, people look at the land bank as, like, an enemy type, right. They look at the land bank as, like, this entity that's taking all the properties from a bunch of people.

Here's the thing how I figured it out. We don't read, like, just plain and simple. We don't read. We don't read our contracts. We don't read our fine print. There's an appendix in every land bank agreement that says you can send pictures as opposed to a lot of the stuff, just in the pictures of the stuff, and they'll give you the release of interest. So once I figured that out, it was kind of easy to move forward.

And maneuver that way.

Yeah.

And I could attest to that just from going to take the pictures of the meeting.

Oh, you had to take some pictures for me.

Yeah, yeah, go take pictures in the meters. You had just. You had your supplies and storage.

Yeah.

I'm like, this guy moving to Groovy. He in New York. He in the city moving. We have to, man.

We don't have a lot of opportunity as entrepreneurs, as real estate investors in New York. It's just priced out. But where that came about was adversity. Right? Adversity. I was having problems with contractors. I would tell a contractor, bro, I own the whole block. Renovate this first property for me. Do a good job. I'll give you the rest. They're like, all right, cool. Give me ten grand, Let me have money to pay my people and buy some supplies. I pay the ten grand. I come back two weeks later, nothing is done. I'm like, come on, like, like, like, I was going through it. I was going through it bad out there. I learned how to maneuver through using credit cards, using PayPal, verifying more information, and eventually figuring it out. But if I didn't go through those losses like I did, I would have never said to the land, like, I would have never went back and read my contract, my paperwork. I would have Never really dug that deep into everything. And I would have never figured out, like, how I can move these houses so quickly.

And that's very huge with a lot of people. When I talk to them, try to just talk to about business and wholesaling in general, you really learn the most from the losses. Like, my success in wholesaling really came from the losses. Like my first eight months in the business, I secured like five contracts and none of them sold. Like, literally none of them sold. So I'm like, man, why aren't these selling? I'm getting these contracts secure. Why, why am I not making any money? And it brought me to realizing that I was, I was making overpriced offers because I didn't really know what the homes were actually valued at. And it made me strengthen my game by making sure that all of my deals moving forward, I got them at prices that worked in my favor and my end investors favor. And that's really the key to success and making sure those numbers right.

I asked this question every podcast man, do you think struggle and losses is. Are absolutely necessary before you get to success?

Yes, I think, I think. And it's a term that you hear often from successful people when they share their stories. And it's failing forward. Right. So if you're not. If you're not failing and getting back up and keeping going, then where's the success really coming from? Can we really claim that? Right. If we just went through the process and, and just 1, 1, 1, 1, 1. It's not a story to tell to really call it success. What did you overcome? So I think it's just a part of the game, honestly.

But is that across the board?

I would say it's across the board. I think the only thing that could limit that is education. Right. And learning from those before you. Like how you're talking now about the failures and struggles that you went through to help you figure out the land bank. How. I'm talking about the failures and struggles that I went through to help me maximize my. Somebody can take that information and not repeat that, then. Yeah, I don't think they'll have to go through that process.

It could eliminate. Mitigate some of the losses.

Yeah, for sure. Most definitely.

But every successful person that I meet, they do have struggle. And I'm trying to figure out, like, did anybody ever get the, like, the footsteps laid out for them, follow the footsteps and become millionaires? And I'm finding the answer is no. No.

The answer is absolutely no. One thing I will say is when I was running my AT&T franchise. Right. Because I came into an already structured system, I didn't have to worry about too much filling at the system. But it was the personal growth and personal development aspect that I was feeling that over and over that I still had to figure out. So you really. Right. Whether it's personal development or the business itself, it's going to be a challenge to overcome. For sure.

Struggles are going to appear regardless. Regardless.

The set of struggles changes between each person. Okay.

Right. Some people personal development, some people ain't ready to receive a million dollars, a half a million dollars, a hundred thousand dollars.

Exactly.

So there is going to be some struggle in that growth, some uncomfortability in that growth. Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. Cool.

The thing is you can, you could have all the info of somebody that.

Did something, but it's like you don't.

Have the, the knowledge of how they.

Got through that situation.

Exactly what to do. But if you don't have their skill.

Set and how they did it, you.

Still won't be able to replicate it as good as them. And that's the personal development piece. And that's also why obviously we both highly promote mentorship. Like, like I said, I was already in the game doing my thing. But you brought a whole nother aspect of how to look at the business. Not only you brought a whole nother aspect, you pretty much opened the market up in a whole different way. Because nobody locally was talking about properties from the Land Bank. So you know how many properties, just how many properties we sold together. And then you came with the Land bank team and then you came with your people, Manning. And there was so many different properties just from this one avenue of information. And that's really what I took away from it is don't box yourself in even when you're, even when you're having success. Because I was having success. But I realized that I got comfortable there leaning on this system and I didn't look outward towards new ways to go about the same business I was in.

Yeah, it's just our mindset. You, you, you can think nationally, locally, globally. Right. When I, I have different mentorship groups that I'm in and they, they talk a lot about globalizing. Right. They're talking about going international, then globally. And how do we scale? A lot of it is scaling. It's like when, when I mention numbers, they, they're saying how do we get another zero on there for you this year? How do we get another zero? Right. And it's about like just what you're exposed to.

Yeah.

Then I seen you went out to Arizona.

Yes, sir.

How's Arizona, bro? Arizona is beautiful. It's beautiful. Arizona is beautiful. Good money out there. You can wake up. If you wake up angry and unmotivated in Arizona, Something wrong? Okay.

Heard you giving you everything that you.

Need to wake up and shoot for success. All right, so. So, so we get it. We understand.

Right?

So now, going forward, when you guys hear of adversity, just think of it as part of the process. The. Our next topic, the next headline. We got a lady that got scammed out of $4,000. Barry, let's pull that one up.

Lynn choosing a contractor to do the work. I was very excited. He was a good salesman, and I liked it. A contract size, a $4,000 down payment made. The work never started. And it felt like the first thing I said to my husband. I said, we've been fleeced. Lynn spending the next police. Right. That's a new one. I started sending emails all the time and calling, and there was no response to the emails and no response to any of my phone calls. She did reach a salesperson who was no longer with the company and had no idea how to reach the owners.

Man, that's sad, bro.

Yes, terrible when it happens a lot. But I think that, like, he could have been a great salesperson, but clearly they didn't do their diligence before handing over money.

You gotta educate us on something, man. I do not understand the mentality of a scammer in Detroit.

Well, I can't say I too much connect to the scammers mentality. I would say hustlers, like, it just comes from.

That's not a hustler. No, that's not a hustler. That's a scammer.

Yeah, I can't really speak too much on that.

You hustle?

Yeah, I hustle.

You're a hustler. You're an honest hustler with ambition, drive, integrity across the board. I could say that a hundred times over with full conviction. And you're a hustler. You can look at me, yo, Charles Noonan's a hustler. He be bouncing in and out of state. He gonna buy a block here.

When I talk about. That's why I tell my people, I say, this is a real, true New York City hustler.

I'm gonna get it. I'm gonna get to that. I'm gonna get to that money. Right? Charles Noonan is just gonna get to the money regardless. Because I'm. I'm a hustle. I'm gonna out hustle people. I'm gonna out think I'm outsmart. I'm gonna out work, I'm. I'm gonna outdo whatever I need to do to get to where I need to be.

But just to speak, let's speak on the scammers mentality. The reality is it just stems from poverty and people trying to figure out quick ways to get by not realizing that it's really no quick. They find ways that work and they just don't have any remorse for other people suffering from their come up. I think that's just where the bottom line is that people, no matter what it always boils down to like we understand that we're entrepreneurs, we're go getter. We gotta work at the. We're willing to put it in work to get to our goals but it all leads to a financial gain. We're just not willing to do it at the expense of someone else's suffering. While a scammer, you. They're not considering that.

Listen to, to all.

I don't want to st my city with, with that though, you know.

Hey, put the camera on me bro. Put the camera on me. This is the most honest guy I've ever met in the city of Detroit. To all my scammers in Detroit, man, I don't understand why y' all scam. If I'm telling you you can renovate this property and then have the rest of my properties to renovate, why would you take a deposit? Short sighted is it? That's no excuse. I'm telling you you can make a hundred like you can, you can legally make a hundred. You can honestly make a hundred thousand dollars. Why would they take $5,000 and run off?

Because they're only in it for that 5,000. They're not like he said, short sighted. They're not thinking about long term success. They probably can't even comprehend that.

He said nobody's looking for a hundred thousand dollars. How are you not, you know how.

Many people that come in that do.

They think we're not gonna pay?

Common sense is not so common though. Comprehension. Like some people. If, if some people haven't experienced or haven't been operating in that place to even be able to believe that the opportunities are here beyond this, then they're not even really thinking about that. They're not even thinking about completing the first house. They're thinking about off rip.

As soon as I say that they got it.

Yeah.

So this is what's crazy, right? This is what's crazy? I could give a contractor a deposit. I could stay and work with them for two days. They do amazing killer work. As soon as I leave, they take the deposit and they out. Like, how are y' all so talented but won't finish the work? It's crazy.

It's kind of like. And that's why I do stay away from the fix and flip side of things, because it's kind of like the substitute teacher syndrome, right? When the teacher is there, they got control of the class, they overseeing things. But soon as a substitute teacher in there, everybody's out of control. The number one key that I feel like to being a successful flipper and getting well with the contractors, unfortunately, is you gotta babysit and oversee the project, or you have to have some form of a project manager there that's going to make sure that they're there every single day getting the work done. And quite frankly, you just can't pay until the job is complete.

But the first thing they ask you for as soon as you start a job, hey, I got to get supplies. I got to pay my people. I gotta. All these other things about why they need the money.

So I wouldn't mess with. I wouldn't mess with those contractors, because if it's not a contractor who is already in the financial position to fund the job, then they're already kind of high risk, right? Because if you're running a business, right, you can't come tell a customer before you serve me my pizza to pay me first so I can go get the dough, so I can go get the sauce and make your pizza. You know what I'm saying? Like, they have to be able to have their supplies and be able to kind of support their business. And there are contractors out there that will foot that bill first and invoice you as each section of the property is complete. So anybody out there that's in the flip game, I would just recommend that you really just don't pay up front and that you work with contractors who's willing to get paid on what we call a draw system, or after they actually complete work and.

Or.

Or if they need the supplies, go purchase the supplies for them. You'll always have them and just let them do the work and pay them after that. That's really the only preventative measure.

Honestly, that's the only way. That is the only way. But those, Pete, those guys we find will put your project off three or four months before they start it. They. They are so packed because they're ethical and honest. For sure with, with jobs that they really don't even get to you until later on down the line, especially if you're new.

Well, we know I, I tend to stay away from the fix and flip. I love selling. I know, because, look, hands off, all of that. But what would you recommend for, from your experience going through that, for someone that's looking to get into the fix and flips, what would you recommend them do as a solution beyond the ones that we spoke of?

Here's the top three things to do. To get contractors in Detroit to not rip you off camera system so you know when they're coming and going. You tell them that your house is being recorded. They have to call you to get in and out of the property so you can arm and disarm it. That will tell you right there if they're going to be honest. If they feel if they're going to steal or not, they won't know if they're going to get caught. The second thing is use a credit card to pay them. And I typically use PayPal or use an American Express card. Because if they don't do the work or if they steal it, you have recourse where you can get the money back. The third thing that I'm going to recommend is to just verify previous work history and licensing. If you have their license on file, you have a little bit more ability to kind of like get them in trouble a little bit. If they have, if you have their license, you can actually report them to. I think it's the LARA system. Yeah, it's lara. So you have a little bit of ability to report them to Laura. And when they give you the license, they typically don't steal after that. The unlicensed contractors, it's super easy. They take your money, they disappear, and you're done.

Yeah, unlicensed. You just, you already started off on the wrong side of things.

But the unlicensed workers are, are from an investment perspective, they're skilled, they're inexpensive, and they talk a hell of a game for sure.

And those are the ones that you just have to really oversee. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you got to oversee them. So they know kind of like the cameras. Right. If somebody know the cameras watching, they're less likely to try something. But if they know you're gonna be showing up on site or have somebody that's gonna pop up on that site, be there when they get there in the morning, stop being one more time throughout the day, then they're going to be less likely to try to pull a move like that, you know?

Yeah. But out of state investors, we don't have time to do that, bro. A lot of times we're working a 9 to 5 somewhere else. So the camera systems helped a lot, but it's just tricky. It's tricky. You got to use your gut, you got to use your discernment. You got to be smart with how you pay. You got to get a lot of stuff in writing, get this stuff on, on paper and black and white with signatures to make sure that we're even talking about the same thing. Because a clean out is something, means something different to 10 different contractors. A full renovation means something different. Right. Everything means something different. So always get your stuff on paperwork. Now, Byron, we got to dig into a little bit of success on your end, man. Because Detroit is a tough city. I love the city. It's beautiful. I've been investing since probably 17 or 18, and I've watched it grow. I've watched it get gentrified. I've watched the work that Dan Gilbert's done downtown. I've watched midtown grow out to like, it's a beautiful city. How did you make it out of Detroit to be successful and ethical?

That's a good question. Successful, obviously, Detroit city is the home of, you know, hustlers and players. So I have to. That's my rules. You know what I'm saying? As far as ethical, I gotta give all praise to my mother for that. Right. Because my mother just instilled some morals in me to where I knew that the right way is the best way. It might take a little longer to go the right way, but it's going to last longer. And she's all. She also taught me that your reputation is everything. A bad name spreads faster than anything. So you could be unethical. And the moment that word get out there, then you finish. Right? I never wanted to be finished. I wanted to be successful long term. And that's been one of the major keys and principles that has allowed me to be successful in multiple businesses is being ethical and establishing relationships based on that. Because if people know that you're going to be reliable, people know that you're going to do good business, then that's where repeat business comes from. That's where referrals come from.

Yeah.

And another place is just this, my people being blessed to come up around good people to where being unethical or being sleazy or not being your best just wasn't tolerated around people that I come up with. You know what I'm saying like we were, we accountability was a real thing, you know what I'm saying? So I always knew that, hey, you just can't go around doing anything without that accountability.

But you told me when you was at AT&T or one of these jobs.

Yeah, I ran.

You tripped up a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I what really groomed me and I'm glad you brought that out. And I really need to talk to people about this because obviously I've been extremely successful in real estate but my main claim to fame that's near and dear me is sales and marketing because it's where I got most of my training to prepare me for the business world. Right. When I graduated high school I kind of was just working Audi and jobs, moving and grooving. I had got into a little trouble back in 2014 and so I got into the trouble back in 2014 and I caught a case to where I was fighting for my life, right? And so now that I'm fighting for my life and I got this felony stamp over my head, I couldn't just go get a normal job anymore, right. So I had to go to what some people would consider the bottom of the barrel stuff, right? But it was sales and marketing. So I was going on these interviews that would allow me to come work with this record that I had hanging over my head. So I found this sales and marketing position and they were the people who sold DirecTV and AT&T Cable inside of big box retail stores like Walmart, Sam's Clubs, Best Buys and Menards across the country. If you go in Those stores, you at&T and DirecTV has business and all those big box retailers that service you cable and stuff. So I went on an interview but I was kind of desperate for opportunity at this time because like I said, I couldn't get a job anywhere. I was going through a process, I was being charged. So I went, I went on an interview one day and they're like, you're going to be selling direct TV at&t inside of Walmart. Like the interview was inside of a Walmart, right? So I'm like, I'm be selling cable inside of Walmart. I knew I have a problem talking to people. But of course most people are going to look at this opportunity like I'm going to be selling direct TV at&t inside of Walmart. But they say for every customer I signed up they'll pay me $125, right? So I don't really have many choices with what I was going Through. I took the opportunity. So I took the opportunity. They trained to develop me on how to sell cable. I just was a natural, man. I'm a hustler. I was a natural. My first. My first week in the business, I did like 10 sales. So you take 10 sales? 125. I made 12.50 the first week. So I'm like, this can't be real. You know what I'm saying? Because most people used to working on an hourly. Yeah. So this was straight.

It was straight commission.

It was straight commission. It was straight commission. You got paid for every sale. So I killed it my first week in the business.

Wait, let's, let's, let's take a little bit of step back. How did you kill it? Like, what, what did you. Because I don't. I always think about this question. Right. So I have a really strong sales background too. Right. And I try to just focus on providing value and kind of like seeing things from the end user's lens and pitching value that way. Like, why would you be paying $92 for Verizon when DirecTV is 69?

Most likely.

Don't you need some extra money? You get better channels, whatever, and I'm selling that way. What do you think attributes to your success as a salesperson? Because it's not easy and it's not common.

That's a great question. The number one thing that contributes to my success and that was when I was running my AT T franchise to. Even in real estate, it's my customer service.

The one as a new customer. I don't know your customer service.

No, but I knew my customer service. I knew what was lacking in the systems in these businesses because I knew the things that was important to me when I went in stores. And I was realizing that people only focused on presenting and pushing the product itself. They didn't focus on creating an experience. They didn't focus on actually sharing a moment with the person that's in front of them. So it wasn't. I made sure that I never just talked about the product. And I actually got to know the people that was in front of me. Like, I'm asking them their name, I'm asking them how they're they going. I'm identifying what's important to them.

Oh, that's. That's key.

Yeah.

Building a relationship and asking what's important.

And once I learned that, especially when you think about in big box retail stores like Walmart, Sam's Club, Best Buys, Menards, it's all women, right? So the ladies. Ladies are out there doing all of the shopping. Sometimes they'll be with their husbands. So even if they're not with their husbands, they still got to get that permission to make that decision. But the one most important thing that I learned being out there, that if people like you, they're going to be willing to help you. Especially if they're already spending money or investing in that thing. Whether it's real estate, whether it's cable, no matter what it is, if they like you, you are going to be the go to person for them.

So make them like you, build a relationship.

Yeah, make them like you, build a relationship. And number one, know what you're talking about. People can. People are going to make a decision based on your confidence in what you're saying and what you're speaking of. And confidence is going to come from your education. Like if I, if I know every single thing about the pricing packages and I can answer every question without having to think about it or without having to go, even if I could.

Manager. Yeah, ask permission.

Exactly. It was my, basically it was my job to know everything. That's how I got to ownership. Then people always ask me, no, I was number one sales rep in the country for AT&T and DIRECTV twice consecutively. They know that. Talk about it. Then when I got promoted in Michigan. No, no, across the country. The whole country.

Across the country.

The whole country.

Come on, bro, say that again right into your camera.

I am and was number one sales rep in the country for DirecTV and AT&T, Fortune 500 across the country. Out of over thousands of retail sales reps in this country. The whole industry know. They know me. If you're out watching this, you know who I am.

Talk that talk, you know.

I also got promoted to ownership and I ran a top five office in the country in Dayton, Ohio and St. Louis, Missouri.

Okay.

I trained, develop sales people all across the country. I've won competitions. I say that to say the number one thing that I used to always tell my guys and I talking to anybody out there in business, they used to always talk about how they would have a bad day and stuff, Right. But I used to have to make something make sense to them. And it's for any industry. I asked them one question. I used to say, okay, so we all do the same thing for a living. What's the difference between me and you? Why am I able to go out here and perform and get these results and you're not? And I would want to hear what they would have to say, right? Because it's going to be hard for them to really say because it's going to be something that they're going to say that's putting you ahead or above them. And it's going to come back to not the business thing. It's always going to come back to a personal thing, whether it's your commitment, whether it's your confidence, whether it's your hunger, whether it's your. Your desire. A lot of people didn't even know, know why they were out there in the store. And I used to ask them, like, hey, what did you come out here for today? We work on commission. So if you come out here and you spend eight hours in this store and you don't make a dollar, you just gave a whole day away for free. So I think when we know what we're in something for, it's easier to pursue it and actually get the results, you know?

All right, so I'm a killer salesperson, right? You're a killer salesperson.

So you see, I get passionate about it, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Can a killer salesperson teach a non killer salesperson how to be a killer?

Yes, but the non salesperson has to have a desire for success and to get results. If they're just there and you just kind of beating them, you know what I'm saying? Like they say beating a dead horse, then you're wasting your time. But if this person really is willing to put the effort in and they really want to learn how to get the results, absolutely. That you can teach them how to be a killer salesperson for sure.

You don't think. You don't think swagger has anything to do with your success as a salesperson?

Yes. I think confidence, attitude is everything but.

How you pass swagger down. How do you teach swag? Because I could see you in a store right now asking a lady, hey, how was your day? How's your cable, right? You got all the channels? Did you watch something last night? She be like, nah, I didn't watch that. Right? You not even talking about selling anything. You're asking about it, right? Hey, you know, Dish got these five channels that such and such doesn't. You ever watch that show? No. You hear about it? Yes. Well, how much do you pay, right? And you having a whole conversation with her pitching value at the same time. You might say something to make her laugh. You might say something that's relatable to her to get the sale. That is not a script. Well, I just made that up in my head.

You just Made that up. That part is not a script, but there is a teaching and training that I would tell that person. First and foremost, that was taught to me. You have to have great C factors, right? And the C factors is smile, eye contact, and enthusiasm, right? So that's the first thing that I'm gonna talk to a person about is smiling.

Breaking it down, break it down.

You have to have eye contact. You have to have enthusiasm. Like, even me sitting here now, right? I'm enthusiastic. Like, so if I'm, if I'm gonna come up to somebody, hey, how you doing? You got okay? When I used to see people talk like that, they're never gonna get results because why would I want to spend my money with you?

Right? I love it. So you strongly believe you could turn anybody with desire and passion to succeed into a killer salesperson?

Absolutely. And I got my podcast to do more, mentor podcast, and I got my digital book, Do More, Dwell less. And that was my main concept when I trained to develop my guys. We don't dwell. We excel, Right? The doers will. So once somebody gets that, when somebody gets that, that defeat is not an option. Once somebody understands again what they're looking to achieve, what they're looking to produce and pursue, once we get that clear together and I, and I say, okay, you know what you want to do, then of course I feel I can push anybody to get results in anything.

I struggle with that, man. Some of my friends that own businesses struggle with that too. I believe that anybody can do it it, but I find it hard to teach. But some, and sometimes my friends will come back to me and they like, Charles, this is a rare person that you're trying to develop. Not everybody can be a killer salesperson. Oftentimes they tell me they'd be like, look, Charles, you can't turn burger flippers into franchise owners. Stop wasting your time.

See, I'm just that guy, man, because I've done it. You know what I'm saying? I took. In order to get promoted to franchise ownership, everybody started off entry level level, right? And so part of AT&T and DIRECTV system is you had to personally be able to train and develop six entry level sales reps to be able to make a minimum of 800 a week. So you take that six people make 800 a week. That showed you what you would produce as an office on your own to be able to sustain. So if you couldn't create at least 6 people to go out on straight commission and earn 800 a week, I trained develop 4050 people in my office at a time, thousands across the country. Again, my strategy is simply we all do the same thing for a living. So you decided that you want to take advantage of this opportunity. What's the difference between me and you? And once I can get people to realize that the only difference is right here, how you looking at yourself, how you viewing yourself? Because the systems is the same, the education is the same, the information is the same. That's like even with you being in land banking, me being in wholesaling, these systems aren't going to change. Change. You know, we got our own strategies, but the system's gonna not gonna change.

What's the number one excuse you hear why people can't sell?

I think they point the finger at the person in front of them. I think that they'll let the customer have too much control of the situation because they'll say this person just didn't want it. You know, and if they just didn't want it, then why they buying it from? They got it all right, Right, right. You know what I'm saying? When it came to cable, Internet, you saying they don't want it, but they got it already. We just trying to get them to realize, hey, you got this already. Here's a better deal for you. Not only this is a better deal, but I'm gonna be your customer service rep. When in the last time DirecTV @&t called you and checked and seen how your service was going? Ms. Johnson, I'm gonna call and check and see how your service is going. I'm gonna be your personal go to. So it's really just again goes back to what I talked about. When it comes to customer service, make put the customer first. Like even with clients, with business, even when we do business, we both do a very great job at making sure that we're servicing each other other based on what we're providing. You know what I'm saying? Like every time you had an opportunity for me when you came into Detroit, you made sure that you included me in that. Any, any anytime I had opportunity to help make sure your business was successful and provide service, that's the winning recipe. You got to just provide good, great customer service and great follow up and people are going to support you at some point just because of that.

I believe it, man. Thank you for, thank you for your help too because you sold a hell of a lot of my property.

Oh yeah, we're gonna do a lot more. For sure.

For sure.

All right.

Right.

So how'd you get into so how do you leave that and get into real estate or the exit strategy? And don't think. Don't think. I didn't peep that. You don't do fix and flips in your own city.

No, no, no, no.

Yes, we got it. We got to talk about that a little bit more, too. But how'd you transition? Or why'd you transition as the number one guy? How do you.

Who.

Who leaves?

Good question. So it was because of my story, right? So I'm a felon, right. I shouldn't even be in this position, Right. I'm number one sales rep in the country. I know people it in the country. But when I used to walk through the national conference, we'll go through a national conference, say it's about, let's say about 500 to a thousand people at the national conference, when I knew it was real, everybody at the national conference from all different states running up to me and say, hey, you buying from Detroit? Because they got my face up as the number one sales rep in the.

Country, and they asked me, yeah, what are you doing?

Yeah, you killing it, son.

They want to talk to you.

Exactly.

So when you first start, them people don't want to talk to you. Right or wrong. They don't want to be your friend. They don't want to talk to you. They don't want to have nothing to do with you. They making their money and they think they're bad. Better when you start killing in any organization, I don't care what color. White, black, green, blue. They got conversation for you when you're ahead of them.

The top. The top headquarters. The CEO called me, and everybody was calling me. They're like, hey, can you run a call, a conference call for my office this Wednesday? What's working for you?

And.

And it took. I got a shout out. I got a shout out which camera I want here.

Don't shout them out, bro, because they was not talking to us.

No, no. I got shot on my brother Devin. Devin Jenkins. So Devin really helped change my life because when they called me and told me I was number one sales rep country, I was still in the mentality, like number one selling country. I don't care about that. I'm just out here trying to get a good weekly paycheck, man. They ain't gonna do nothing for me. That was me. This. I was talking, and D came up to me. Devin, he came up to me, he said. He said, hey, B, you need to wear that. You need to wear that. You number one sales rep in the country for AT&T and DirecTV, you need to wear that. And I even told him, like, man, D, I don't care nothing about that, man. He like, no, you need to wear that. When I left from D that day, that's all I can hear in my mind. If I need to wear, I need to wear that. So it wasn't until I went to the national conference after achieving that, and I just arrived, right? I just arrived. I don't know what's going on. I arrived. They got my own picture up as the number one sales rep in the country, right? I'm thinking we sell cable. I'm not thinking it's this big like this, right? But I realize it's the money, right? So as I'm walking around the whole conference, I can't walk nowhere without everybody coming up to me trying to stop and get a minute. Yeah, right? Like, hey, what's working for you in Detroit? And in my mind, I couldn't even identify what was really working for me at this moment. I was just working, right? I couldn't identify it. But when it started to matter, not to me. But now I'm in a position where, like, I service people, right? People asking me what's working for me. People ask me for help. So I got to be more intentional about even understanding what was working for me, right? This is where my life really started to change. Because when I got back from that conference, I'm like, all right, I want to be an owner. How I do that and my own, My manager at the time, Dan. Dan Bazan, ex NFL player, played for the Chicago Bears. He like, well, you already got everything. If you want to be an owner, then you got to do everything that the owner do. You got to beat me to the office. You know, you got to beat me to the office. And then the number one thing, and this is some game, too, for anybody out there, the number one thing I learned from Dan was he was the only person in the office at the time that had a relationship with everybody in the office, right? The manager, the CEO, has to greet and has to provide what we talking about service to every single person that they come in contact with that business. They should feel send team, right? They should feel appreciated. This is whether it's a customer, this is whether it's a client. If this is my company, this is what I learned from Dan. If this is my company, I need to make sure I have a relationship. I need to make sure I greet every single person that's connected to this business. This is whether it's through an email. This is whether it's through a text message. These people need to know that I value my business. And these people need to know that I care about, about their business and what they're getting from my business. Right. So that's just, that's just a principle. But to ask you a question on how I went from. I went so high up, man, I was 27 years old. I look up, I run this franchise office. A lot of people like to talk about the money. I made a hell of a lot of money. But I think the thing that really got to me the most is I have 50 employees in my office kind of servicing me. Yeah. Reported to me, right? So it was that high that I really appreciated. And it was humbling, but it was that same thing. That's what really kind of of took me, you know what I'm saying? Over the edge. So I wasn't once. I'm having the success coming in because we're in sale, we're going out selling every day. I'm getting thirty, forty thousand dollar wires weekly, right? All I knew how to do was spend the money. I didn't, but I, but I, I came to realize that the only reason I wanted money at that point in my life was to spend it. I never taught nobody, never taught me about investing nothing. I never talked about, Nobody talked to me about stocks, Nobody talked to me about owning real estate.

Yeah.

My accountant, I had an accountant, I didn't even want to. She would tell me all the time, because I'm going crazy spending this money. I'm gambling tens of thousand dollars, I'm traveling everywhere, I'm doing everything out of the country. And Casey, my accountant, she used to, she thought something was wrong with me. She used to be like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? What are you doing with the money? And I was so ignorant at the time, man. I used to tell her, casey, don't worry about what I'm doing with the money. If I lose it all, you gonna help me get it back. I say stuff like this to my account, right? You gonna, you gonna help me build this? I build this. And that's to answer your question, that's how I crashed out. I was so high up, man. Listen to nobody no more. Nobody can tell me nothing. So I wasn't open to learning nothing. And I literally just traveled all across the world, spent money on all my people, spent money taking my crew all around. And I got to the point where I really kind of, I sabotaged myself intentionally. Right. So I didn't just lose the business because I had the skills. And even when I would talk to my partners, right, the CEOs, and they seen me kind of spiraling down from where I was at, they would always say, what's going on? You got all the skills, you know what to do, what's going on. But I had at that point, point I had isolated from everybody. I wasn't, I wasn't having fun, I wasn't loving the business no more. And I self sabotaged.

So you had your own.

I have my own franchise office.

Franchise office. And then your performance start going down.

Yeah. So I had, so the system is we got a sales office, right. And AT&T and DIRECTV assigns you a certain amount of big box retail stores. So those would be like Walmart's, Sam's Clubs, Best Buys, Menards. So in Dayton, Ohio I had about 30 big box retail stores. So I would staff them with like 1 to 2 sales rep per store. They would go work the stores. I managed, overseeing everything there. So after, in my first two years in Dayton, Ohio I went crazy, awards winning, everything. But then I got big head and I'm like, I reached out to headquarters and I'm like, Dayton, Ohio is too small of a market for me. I can't really grow here how I want to grow. Is it a bigger market open? So they're like, well the only bigger market. Usually you don't get a bigger market without promoting a deal out. So promoting somebody up under of you to become an owner as well. So I'm like, they like, you can get St. Louis. So I'm like, cool, I'll take St. Louis, man. I come home. I come home out of nowhere, tell my girl at the time, in a week, we moving to St. Louis in two weeks. I didn't ask no questions. They green lighted me to market. I'm like, we out, we moving to St. Louis in two weeks. I'm thinking bigger market, more success. Well, St. Louis kicked my ass, you know what I'm saying?

So you started taking L's?

Yeah, I started taking L's.

You struggled a little bit in St. Louis?

I was lot. Literally from the time I touched down in St. Louis, I watched my company go from the height to the whole year I was there. My company went straight down. I started losing. I started losing on my team. Like certain, certain people didn't want to make the second move with me. So now I got a brand new team of people that I don't really know. It was A rough one.

You got too big too fast.

I got too big too fast.

Happens all the time. In a nutshell, that happens all the time. Most people blow their first million. 000.

Yeah.

That's common. Most people grow too fast. And you see it in the restaurant business. You got the small restaurant with the line outside. Right. The moment they open the second location, they're gonna close.

Yeah.

Because it's just like the expenses, the overhead, managing it, there's no longer a weight. So now you can just walk in and get it. It ain't that cool. It's cool. Sometimes the mystique where you gotta wait and. And get on the line and like the exclusivity goals.

And since we only on. On the show, which is very important. I didn't invest anything. I didn't even know nothing about investing. All I did was spend money I didn't know.

And you have BRO in real estate.

There's my brother Sean. So this is huge. Now we transitioning into how we get.

So you started like you wasn't making a lot and then you like, I gotta do something else.

No. I was spiraling. And every day I'm going in my office, gotta decide. So if you're in a business, right? And you see, see your account, your. Your business balance is dropping every day. You got to make a decision at a certain point to fight or pull out. Right? I'm on. I'm in a whole nother state. So this ain't gonna be a cheap shutdown.

Yeah.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I got. I gotta make sure. First of all, I let all my employees go. I got all this office full of equipment. They gotta go in storage. If I move back home, I gotta have enough to get a new place. So I'm down right? When I got down to about 60 grand left in my business account. This when my. My stomach and knots. I'm sitting in my office. Yeah. I'm sitting in my office every day. Like now I'm just in my office watching tv. Right? Because I'm not even. I'm not even there no more. Right? Yeah. It's over before it's over, it's over, right? So I'm sitting and I'm like, what I'm gonna do. This is when I started thinking, like, what life is about to be for me Now. I've been gone. Now I'm about to have to move back home, shut down my company and start over. But in the business, they got an opportunity for you to go on a retrain. Retrain. So a retrain is when you go back to your promoter, owner's office, you start back as a rep, you rebuild. You rebuild your team, they give you the help, and you can open back up when you get to where you wanted to be. I could. I wasn't about to do that, man. That was so. That was so. I didn't have the humility. Yeah. It was humiliating. It was humility. I get it. I get it. So when I. When I. When I was deciding to shut down, Sean, my. My brother and my business partner, he's sitting over here. He was. He was filled with excitement because we talking every day. He knowing what I'm going through. He knowing I'm shitting down.

He's making money in real estate, so he wants some money.

Enough money for me to know that this can replace. This is an avenue I can take. Is he to replace what I was.

Recruiting you, or is he just like, hey, bro, I got a spot for you if you need something?

No, he wasn't recruiting me. We just kicking it as brothers. He talking about what he doing in business, and I'm talking about what I'm doing in business. He and he coming. I had known he had been a realtor for. For what, eight years up to that point? He had been a realtor for eight years. So I knew he was a realtor, but the realtor to wholesaling was two whole different worlds. So he let me know that he discovered the wholesaling business. And now instead of just talking about, you know, he sold a house and got 3% commission, he talking about tens of thousands of dollars per deal. You know what I'm saying? So I know numbers. I'm a numbers guy, right?

You know money, right?

Yeah, I know money. So I'm like. I'm like, so in my mind. Mind, I'm like, making a plan that this is my avenue. But I hadn't fully went there yet. But I am starting to pick Sean brain every day about this wholesale.

And that's.

Now this is becoming our day instead of, hey, bro, what's up? What's up? The game, what's up with moms. Our conversation on the phone every day becoming. Now, me finding out about your money. Me finding out about this wholesale business.

I like it, man. And then Sean told me he got ripped off by some contractors, too.

Yeah, that's how he.

That's how, like, wholesaling is it?

Yeah, he discovered wholesaling through being in the. Trying to do his first fix and flip, you know, and just kind of Putting the pieces together and discovering the process of wholesaling. And then one thing I got to share because it was a surreal, it was a surreal moment to my story, right? So I go back on the retrain, right? Oh yeah, yeah. I go back on the retrain. Now I'm back in Walmart and sound school. I just coming from a nice luxury office, 40, 50 employees for the last three years. Now they got, they got me back in the state store. I'm back pitching customers, right? So I want to do the whole, my whole time in the store laughing at you. It was real. My whole time. That's my story. My whole time in the store, right? I'm not pitching customers. Guess what I'm doing in the store?

What?

Man, I'm on my phone looking for wholesale deals, okay? So my whole, now my mind is not no longer in this business. I'm just gone, right?

Yeah.

So I was in the wholesale and I remember I pulled up to the office maybe a week after that and I said, I got there about three hours before we were supposed to be there. I sat in the car and I just sat there. I'm like. Because this has been a five year journey of in my life. I'm talking about build relationships all across the country. A real passionate situation. And I walked away from it that day and I left. No, and that's another thing. You gotta trust and you got to be confident. You got to believe in yourself. Because when I decided to walk away from that business, I probably had like $8,000 to my name, man. I ain't had no job or nothing. And I banked it all on wholesaling.

Is that a lot or a little?

That's a little. I had $8,000 savings with my rent was like $2,000 a month. And I literally just said I'm doing wholesaling. I didn't go for all no job applications. I hadn't closed the deal. I lived below, below my means off that $8,000. And right there, true story, looking at this camera, right? When I got down to like my last $2,000, man, it was about five months into the business. I closed my first wholesale deal and I made about 4, $500 off of it. But it took that 2 to 6,500. When I tell you where the camera, When I tell you I've been going crazy since that first deal. I haven't done anything else. All I do is wholesale.

I love it. You know what I'm saying? I love it and I thank you for it too because it Saved my business. I say it all the time. I was struggling in Detroit until I met you. I just was. I couldn't find it.

I didn't know you were struggling. I really, when I met you, just because how we met through the direct mail letter. I always like, man, I gotta say, I got this big time New York investor. Got property.

I have money, but I do math too. Like my New York money don't go into Detroit money.

Right. It's a different business.

I might have still been working at American Express. Corporate market money don't bleed into Detroit money. My New York portfolio don't. Like I'm not making money here to go dump it in here.

Right, Right.

So I got money, I made my investment. And the way I'm wired, the investment has to make the. The other money. So these two houses got to make the money to fix the third. I got to make money from the third to go into the fourth. Or it's not. Or it's not working.

It's a loss.

Yeah, it's not working. So I make my investments pay for themselves and others investments. I can go deep into a market. So it's almost like gambling. Right. I don't need to take the money off the table. I can double down because I have money already at home.

Yeah.

So I can just press my right. They say you press it. I could just keep pressing my bet in Detroit if I'm winning.

Right.

And just keep doubling down. What I'm not gonna do is lose and then go take some money from somewhere else. Because now we. Now we going back, just going down. Yeah. Losing money ain't my thing. It ain't never have been my thing. So yeah, I did well. But I was struggling from a different with the game.

You giving out now like. Because even with all the experience that I have, you just gave me some game. For real. Because.

Oh yeah, your money don't mix.

Yeah.

That what what your money makes in. In a high yield, interest, savings. That stays what your broker makes. That manages your best. Your bank account. You run that again, you press the that. You press that right. You repeat it. You repeat. You don't take it from. Because you just. Your money just worked for you. You're gonna take all the money that you didn't physically work for your money made it for you and dump it somewhere else.

That's losing.

You losing bad business. If I hit rock bottom.

And that can kind of be considered too. It's co Mingling for real. No, in that sense. But just look at it from you right?

Your business ideas don't, don't bleed over.

Right? Exactly.

If I'm gonna take a hundred thousand dollars and invest somewhere, that's it. So it's almost like, like in most, most situations, you don't take good money and throw it after bad money.

Right.

If that, that investment is bad, it's gonna be bad. It's gonna tank, it's gonna fail. I gotta go home, tell the kids, the family, my friends, my circle. Hey, I lost $150,000 in Detroit. I'm not gonna take, I'm not gonna lose everything.

Right?

Right. So I'm not gonna take work money and a work bonus and lo lose it. I'm not going to take money that's in circulation. That's been investment and loot. That's just crazy.

That's awesome. Some good advice, because I told you I've been staying down at the Borgata since I got here, losing money.

Your borgata money is your borgata money. If you came down with two grand, three, five, six, that's it. You don't close a wholesale deal. Get the wire and put it back in the Borgota. Yeah.

And look.

Oh damn. Sean, Sean, stop, stop now, bro, stop.

She just told our whole.

No, you take the L, you take.

The L. Take a L, you take.

The L. It's okay to take one L, cuz you win in four other places. The end of the year you going to be up.

That's real.

Yeah, we don't do that, bro.

Real game today.

So Detroit money wasn't no more. New York money was getting poured into Detroit. Detroit's budget was done. I had Terry who's like, like unlicensed. He just seemed, you know how Terry. So Terry's a guy in Detroit, that really good guy, really good heart, no business acumen, don't got a real bank account, no cash app, no Zel, no nothing. He got a good heart.

Yeah. He going to show up and do the work.

He's going to. It's going to be it. Your lights are going to work. When he rewire your house. House, they not going to be perfect. Right. The switches might be upside down. Yo, my man, this is the first time I ever seen this. He, this how he got me. He called me non stop every day. I'm like, damn. He kind of serious about his business. Then when I got there, I'm like, look, I need to get the lights on because I got to take pictures of working electricity for the land bank. He said, I have your lights on tomorrow. I'm like, what he's like, man, don't worry about that. I got your lights on tomorrow. Tomorrow. I'm like, how? He's like, stop asking me questions, bro. Just come out tomorrow. I'm have your lights on. I'm gonna rewire the whole house. He doesn't look like he can get. Get to it like that.

No, no, no, right?

He don't dress no kind of way.

Look like Unk.

He looked like. He looked like Unk, right? But nah, I love him, bro, because he helped save the ship. I came back the next morning, right? I saw a ladder on the pole. I saw this long. He said, give me like $40, I gotta get like the long paint stick, right? Yo, my man Terry connected the electricity from the pole to my house by himself.

Yeah, he was serious guy like that, I ain't gonna lie. He did some work for me outside of New York.

We never heard of anything messing with electric like that.

Oh, yeah.

Hell no.

You gonna get that all day.

Black people don't mess with electric.

No, you don't get that all day in Detroit.

Yo, so look, man, y', all. Detroit has the ability to turn water on. They got water keys and they. They mess with electric, they turn your electric.

I would think that's common, but no, that's a long thing. In Detroit.

He had the hood wrench. A hood wrench could take. Turn your water and your electric on in Michigan. We don't got no hood wrench in New York.

Ain't.

There's no such thing. Yeah, it's no right or wrong.

I haven't seen them out here.

You can't steal no electric in New Jersey.

How you, man? You got people living with no. With stolen electric for years in Detroit. Yeah, same guy rebuild your carburetor, too? Yeah, for sure.

Yes. That's why I'm saying Detroit has so much talent. Those guys there are so talented. I just don't understand how they don't. Don't do ethical work.

I mean, but you got New York, Detroit, four thousand dollar rent. We got five hundred.

Yeah. You say y' all don't need the money that bad.

No, I'm saying that we hungry, so we gonna figure out how to get that free electricity. Ingenuity and.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that.

We gotta have electricity, we gotta have water.

All right, so you started wholesaling now, how far into wholesaling were you when we. We met like that? Both of our business. Did we meet and they both went like that?

Yes, so. And so I shut my company down at the end of 2018. In 2019, February is when I moved back home to Detroit, Michigan and probably about April. April is when I left the business completely and said I'm gonna do wholesale. I met you about that winter, the winter time of 2019. So I closed my first deal from, from, from the April of me saying I'm gonna start stop. I'mma quit the business and do wholesaling. From April to August is when I closed my first deal. I closed my first deal in August, about $4,500. So I probably met you right around December. I remember we met right around December. It was winter time. So yeah, you probably. I ain't going to lie. Your wayb property probably is like my fourth deal.

Little catapult where you started getting.

But you came with so much inventory.

Yeah.

As one investor investor, you think about we still flip it today, you know what I'm saying? But you're only one, you're only one investor for me. But at that time, you at the. You was like my fourth deal. And then you came, you had your few properties, you had many problems. So you got to think just coming through you, in that season, I had probably about 1012 properties on the table. But then if I got 1012 going with you, and now I got my marketing and I met these investors for somebody new in the business just because they first deal in August, from August through the winter through that new year, I'm going crazy. I probably made like a hundred thousand dollars in three months.

Nice, nice. I love it, bro. You know, I almost forgot about the four duplexes I gave you.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You had the four duplexes. It was two on this side of the street. Two on this side of the street. I sold them. Matter of fact, speaking of the duplexes, my biggest buyer, Ali, shout out Ali. He bought the whole camera right there. I'm sorry. Shout out Ali. Man, he back size up the whole city, right? Man, this guy goes crazy.

Put it out there.

Tell the audience right now, Ali, Ali bought those four multi families you had. Remember we thought that I'm like them trash, they needed full rehabs. I'm like, we gonna get them done. But he got one thing about you. And I tell this every time I speak for you. He do not take a no for an answer. Like we go back and forth. He just won't take a no for answer. And I could be right. I could be right. I could be given the fact that facts and he just like, we can get it done, B, we can get it Done. And, and that push is important because we always get it done. We ain't that. Me and Charles ain't never had a deal that we didn't get done. We only got one to this day is Wilford the last one. We gonna get that one done too. But out of all the business we done done, we. We could have closed out on everything. And it's been successful in that. And I gotta give it to him because he just don't take no for an answer. Like, even when I come and try to be like, oh, you shouldn't have picked that one. He just be like, we can get it done. You can get it is. Is important.

You know why? Because I know what outside the market looks like. So outside of Michigan, you cannot get a duplex. I don't care what condition it's in. For less than $50,000. Right? $100,000. So if I'm selling it for 25 or 30 or 18 or whatever. I remember you moved Manny's property on Sinclair too. Whatever it is, right. I know what it looks like. So if you just wave that piece of marketing in front of enough people. People. $25,000 for a duplex in a market that rent.

You was telling me that like they.

Gave the whole block $1300 a month for rent. Like the math makes sense to me as an outsider as. As outside of Michigan.

I want to invest.

And you can get the whole block. Duplexes. Four duplexes on one block is like crazy. You get the whole block, right? You just got to give me my number.

Yeah. And one by one, buyer bought all four. It wasn't like different investors, like one investor.

Of course it's a good value. That's what I'm saying. And you have to understand the value proposition and just wave it in front of enough. Just get it in front of enough people, it'll sell.

Yeah.

And you move this. So you made some good money off of those.

Great money, man. Just what I know. Yeah, I did pretty good off of them. All our deals, we. I do, I try to make sure everybody walks away pretty happy. Oh, never tell him. We got stories on deals man he made. Look, and now this is why. Why this is why somebody need to get it wholesaling. So remember I told you I moved down to Arizona? I had my house in Arizona. I went out there. A nice house too. On the golf course.

You're back in Detroit now. Are you still.

Yeah, no, I'm back in Michigan now. I'm back in Michigan now. Michigan. But I went out To Arizona. My whole purpose out there was to test out the market. And I had, was my, my, one of my partners out there was bringing me into like my first introduction into like a content house and content creation. He like, this is what they do out here in Arizona. So I'm entrepreneur. I'm like, let's do it, bro. We gotta, we got, we rented a nice big house off the golf course. Had people booking it out and stuff. But the story I'm selling about Sean is when it's when we talk about this wholesale opportunity. So I was out of town, I'm in Arizona. So we got a little arrangement to where if either one of us go and do the groundwork for each other's deal, then we pay them 50%. Right?

Right.

But you don't know what's gonna come out of that. We don't know what's gonna come out of the deal. This guy made 25,000. I had to pay him 25,000 for going to do a walkthrough for me. Yeah, just.

Oh, it, it was a very difficult, it was a very difficult $25,000 walk through, man.

That's how he gonna play it, cuz. He know, he know. I don't never forget that. Like I was in Arizona.

Time out, time out. I never, I never pocket watch. One thing I want people to understand, right? If you make an investment and what you ask for makes you happy, happy. Don't ever ask somebody else what they're making from that deal. It's none of your business. I don't know if These guys made $25,000 per house. If they made 2 5, it don't matter to me because I got the number I wanted that made me happy. Please do not pocket watch other people's pockets asking.

Yeah, like if we, if, if I come to you, like everybody, you won't.

Be mad at me?

If I say I wouldn't be mad at you, but I feel like that now we going against our business arrangement. Because if I come to you and we work out an arrangement and we're doing a negotiation and we get to a final number, hey, this is your number. This is what you're good with. And then now you find out about my number. And now your number only changed specifically because my number like that. I feel like that those, that's the kind of details and stuff we deal with initially. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

Right now it's small.

I'm getting pocket watch.

It's small. It's small. It's small minded thinking if I pay 5,000 and I could get 20 and Byron say, hey, I got you 19. I just 4x my money 400 times on $5,000, I'm happy as hell. Banks are paying 3%, 2%, 1 4%. I just made 500.

400. You know, it ain't gonna go too much past that 19. But you, I don't know. Well, yeah, I guess not.

I don't know. And I never cared because this is what I'm looking at. I took $5,000 out of my account, I made 19. That's a super win for me.

Yeah, for sure.

I know where to go get more houses. I'm not doing no legwork. I ain't picking up no phone. I'm actually doing it virtually remotely. I tell Chris and Terry, hey, put the stuff in there, cuz. I got everything in the stores. Put the stuff in there. Send me the pictures by Byron. I bought this one. All right, cool. Why the hell you buy that? This the wrong house, bro. I asked you first. Hey, all right, look, I bought it already. Close on Wednesday. Let's get it out of here. He's doing his thing. We sell it. We sell it. I don't know if Byron was selling them for 50 or not. I don't care. I'm happy at what I made. So, again, don't pocket watch, man. I don't like that pocket watching deal.

No pocket watch. Yeah.

Yo, I like the wholesaling game, man. I didn't get into it because I feel like it's. It's active. Like you said you had to pay them to go show a property. I feel like it's. It's a bit more active than businesses that I wanted to get into.

Not it. Well, it depends on how you run your wholesaling business because you can run it completely remotely, you know what I'm saying? A virtual like, I don't leave my house, man, if I don't. If I wanted to go and stay in the hotel for six months, okay, I wouldn't have to. I wouldn't have to leave at all. No, I wouldn't have to leave at all. In fact, not only would I not have to leave, if I really locked into that hotel room for six months, I will increase my numbers more because of the work that I would be able to do from the computer and focus and do. Yeah.

All right, so look, man, I'm gonna ask you to spill the beans. Give us some free info on wholesaling.

Well, the free information, the best information I can give anybody out there Watching on wholesaling is that it's literally tens of thousands of dollars sitting right next to you with this thing. Your friends, family, relatives, co workers. You just can't get it because you don't have the information. It's literally a family member right now dealing with some form of a foreclosure situation. They probably had a flood. They don't got insurance to prepare the flood. They don't know what to do. They probably behind on their bill. They think the only way out is to lose their home. And they literally can. And I had a situation, I'll give you a real, real life situation that a lot of people out here listening to probably know somebody going through or probably went through themselves. I literally had a lady, right? She was going through a foreclosure, right? And most people go through a foreclosure, they're extremely emotional, right? They don't know because they're losing their home, right? So they like. She was to the point where she like, forget it, I'm gonna lose the home. She just trying to figure out what she gonna do next, right? Because I had the knowledge, I was able to come in and say, well, let's see what's going on here, right? She was about 15,000. A nice home too. Nice, nice 3,400 thousand dollar house, right? She was like $15,000 behind on the payment. The bank say they're gonna foreclose on her, right? Most people don't have $15,000 to just be able to cough up at once, right? And most people couldn't just go get it just like this, right? So she was behind like $15,000. But when I looked at and assessed her home, guess what I realized? From the time she bought her home to this point where she was at now, she had a hundred thousand dollars in positive equity in her house, but she had no whole crew that she had a real life 100k sitting in equity in her house that all she literally needed to do was sell the house and walk away with this 100k equity, right? So I come in, I'm like, I'm like, oh man, you got equity in this house. All we need to do is pause the foreclosure. I'm gonna put up the money, right? So I put up like 7, $8,000 to put a hold on the foreclosure worked out of the arrangement, right? While we got that money up with the promise to come more, I went in, I probably put another $5,000 in touch ups to get it ready for the retail market. I put another $5,000 in touch ups man listed her property for 375,000. That property was going in a week. Now where I was mad. Now this is the thing about pocket watching. I'm not gonna sit up here and be fake and lie, right? She had 100k in equity. I was going to get me a nice piece of that because I'm putting my money up, I'm saving the day. But. But she winning, right? She not gonna lose her home. She bout to save her credit from a foreclosure and I'm sending her away with a nice bag right out of the hundred. So in my mind when we going through the process, I was gonna give her like 30. I ain't gonna lie. I was gonna give her like 30 off the 100. Yeah, I was gonna give her like 30. I got my money put up, you know, and I work, I don't work for free, right? So I'm gonna give her like 30, maybe 40. I had it in my head and I'm gonna take the rest. But that came back to bite me. I ain't gonna lie. Cause once we, we sent the paperwork to title to Eminem, them right, man, guess what came back when we were selling? Man, she owes $70,000 in back taxes. Oh man, she owes $70,000 in back taxes. They had, but they had to get up. But she paid off. We flipped the house. She paid off. She saved her credit, she saved her losing her home and foreclosure.

Right.

The $70,000 in back taxes that she owed got paid off from the seller home. So now she don't hold back taxes on nothing no more. Yeah, I still made about a 15 piece and everybody won. So the advice that I'm giving anybody out there is that with this information, it's situations around us every single day. The wholesale business exists because of distress situations. And when we say distress, that means physically distressed situations with the property or situational distress. Right. Physical. Like I talked about a lot, we get a lot of flooding in Michigan, right?

Yeah.

Most people don't really have homeowners insurance, right. Or don't keep it up. So if they get a bad flood or a bad fire, damn damage or a bad storm, tree falling house. And now you got this damaged property. You can't afford the, the tens of thousands of dollars to renovate it because you ain't had insurance. What are you going to do? Right. Most people take, they're taking these losses every single day.

Okay.

Or somebody like myself or around them is coming in with this knowledge and this information and being able to secure this property and sell it to an investor who do, who do have the tools and resources to, to save them on that property. So I would just say that it's, it's opportunity around all of these people that you literally just need to get the basic information. And I don't know if this the time right now, but I do want to throw it out there, right? We do offer a free wholesaling real estate checklist and it is 100% free just to give those people, I'm talking about, insight and information to what is wholesaling, right? Because we're talking a lot of people just don't know what it is.

How do they get that free information? Information? Well, first give me the three, first three things of how you get host. How do you make money in wholesaling? Give me top three, three things.

Well, I just talked about, number one, right? Tapping into your, what we like to call your warm market, your network market. Friends, family, relatives, co workers, utilizing word of mouth or just telling people that, hey, if you know somebody got a property for sale or need help in the home situation, I can help you. And then come to me, I'll show you how try to help them.

Number two.

Number two is get the free checklist, right? Because you can't start to make money without information, right? So at least, and this is how Sean taught me, I got to give my brother a lot of praise because that's just who I am. The guy, when I, when you talk about having a coach, the guy gave me the game the right way. This is why I'm a beast. I am. I got my hustle. But still to this day, he got that information. You feel me? He made sure I knew exactly what I needed to know and I couldn't. It would have took me a long time, time to, to replace the income I was making in my franchise if he wasn't there to kind of speedboat me to the information. So get the information.

Use your network. Get the information.

Yeah, use your network. Number three, get the information and, and get to work, you know, and get to work. This is not an overcomer. Yeah, start it. That's it. Just start it. Don't do too much sitting back thinking. And that's why my whole concept is do more, dwell less. Because that's the number one thing I realize while people don't get results, they spending too much time thinking, thinking about why they can't and not enough time doing stuff.

I like that, man. I like that. So look, we, we Know what happened in Detroit, right? We know how Detroit laid out. We know how it played out. I still have, I think eight properties there that I'm not. That I did not list for sale. They're performing well. I'm not, I'm not letting those go. But I started to invest in Alabama.

Okay. I've been saying that, man, you going, listen, you're doing something great because your advertisement is everywhere. Like when I speak to you, I'm like, charles, boy. I'm like, charles going crazy. I show your story all the time. I'm like, man, watch this guy coming to the city just wholesale. And then I watched him take it and form the Land Bank Club. And then I'll be telling people how you have people flying in from all over the country to come into the city, showing them your projects with the Land bank and you had me come speaking. I'm like, I watched this guy come into the city from they not even really physically. You were flying when you needed to.

Yeah.

But I watched you coming to the market business wise. But you have scaled this. From what I seen, you have scaled up so far. Like, I ain't gonna lie, I thought the Land bank club was your theme. And then I look up now, you're talking about building. I'm seeing building Birmingham floating all around on social media.

So we have to grow. Right. The stocks that you invested in last year aren't as hot this year. Right, Right. The business model that you guys had last year. Year has to evolve into a better business model. So, Yeah, I made 400% of my money in, in, in Detroit. Right. We talk about numbers there. The evolution of real estate, the evolution of fix and flipping, the evolution of buying land bank houses and selling them. I feel like the pinnacle of real estate is developing, is building from the ground up. Right. So.

And that is the goal, you know, that's the goal.

That's everything. We. Dan Gilbert, right. Who owns downtown Detroit. Right. Would you say, Damn that. Yeah, 90 they say. I say 90 is a developer. Fred Trump, Donald Trump developers. Right. That's when we respected Donald Trump. The way that we really. The way that we did it was respecting him. As we were talking about that driving.

Over here, Twine, what'd you say about what Donald Trump said about how he made most of his money?

He said that the majority of his money comes from owning the air above. Of course it's. It's developing.

Right.

There are higher levels in real estate.

So.

It'S real estate company.

Yeah, yeah.

So look, going through what I went through with buying houses, renovating them, renting them them out only made me like so much money. It's. I feel like the work that's required to make a lot of money is far more than what I'm willing to.

Do, what is worth.

Yeah, it's hard to scale.

That's how I feel about the fix.

And flipping versus yeah, D class neighborhoods is tough. We just saw somebody get scammed. $4,000. Barry, we're not there yet, bro. We're way off. You got, you got Coca Cola and you got the home selling fast. You way off, bro. I'm going just start that. Overall, we got 20 minutes left. The work required to scale, fix and flipping and C class neighborhoods, D class, B class is, is far more than what I'm willing to do. Right. I'm just not willing to do that much work. What I'm understanding now, now is building is so much safer. Developing properties is so much safer than fixing and flipping properties at every LE level. And here's why it, it happens. And you build a house in stages, right? Just like if you're building a house with Lego, right? You do the foundation, the framing, the windows, the electric, all that stuff. The, the contractors do it. They don't get paid until that level passes inspection.

Oh yeah, that's a major key right there.

So it's so much safer. The lending on building, the lending on developing is so much more easier. There's so, so many less guidelines on lending for developing because they know they're going to lend you in stages after completion. They're not lending you $169,000 up front. They're lending you $6,000 up front after you show them the work is done and it passed. And so inspection, then it goes to framing. They're not. It's so much safer all across the board for me, for the dev, for the builder and for the bank, for everybody. Yeah, man. So I got information, right? Because of my network and the mentorship meetings that I'm in, I saw I was way ahead of this beverage company. There's like two more beverage companies that are in Alabama. 200 million dollar deals that they did. There is major developments going on with the north side of Birmingham. Like the schools, the hospitals are changing, they're being the ones that were vacant. Huge cash infusion from the, from the federal government into, into Alabama. I figured out how to buy land there, right? I figured out how to buy massive amounts of land. So I started to invest in the land there. One of the articles that I want to show pull up and show show is that Coca Cola got the naming rights in Birmingham. Coca Cola got the naming rights in Birmingham for their $46 million venue, which is an amphitheater. Right. So, you know.