The Mental Load Trap That’s Quietly Breaking Your Connection: How the Holidays Turn You Into Roommates

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Welcome to Dear Dr. Tracy, the podcast that dives deep into the messy, beautiful world of relationships. I'm Dr. Tracy, clinical psychologist, relationship expert, and your go to guide for navigating relationships, boundaries in laws, and everything in between. Whether you're striving to rekindle the spark, set healthy limits, or build deeper connections, we this is the space where real talk meets expert advice. Together we'll tackle the tough questions, untangle the sticky situations, and uncover the small shifts that lead to big transformations in your relationships. So grab a coffee, settle in, and let's rewrite the stories you tell yourself. This is Dear Dr. Tracy, your guide to creating relationships that feel good.

Hey, it's Dr. Tracy and I'm sitting here, sitting here with Greg and Did you just roll your eyes?

No. Did I?

Is that how we're starting our podcast today? Should we leave that in? Oh my gosh.

It's actually perfect. It's perfect, is it not?

It is actually perfect because of where we're going today and where we've been with all of the things.

Maybe I did roll my eyes. The video will tell. I don't think so.

We're gonna have to go back and that just means that everybody should have to jump. Join us on YouTube and check out. Did Greg roll his eyes? Okay, listen. There was this moment last week where I was doing all the things and.

Most of the things.

Most of the things. And I was wrapping gifts. I was sending a email to our kids teacher about a thing that was happening. I'm ordering matching pajamas. You walk in. Greg walks in and he says to me, do we have tape? And my whole body just went, nope, no, I'm out. Eject out of here.

Yeah. I thought I was trying to help.

I know.

I mean, I wasn't.

I. You were. But I think this is what people experience around this time of year is that the mental load is high. There are so many things that show up that we then feel like two ships passing in the night. Literally, that's what it's been like. I mean, we've been in book launch mode, so that's a little more challenging. But then also, too, we have just had this extra layer of the holidays of planning with family, of the kids, the kids excited for the holidays, which are great, but then suddenly we're making lists of toys or gifts that they want.

Yeah, that Amazon catalog is amazing. And a nightmare. Two things can be true, right?

All the time. So I think what's so difficult around this time, though, is that our dynamic starts to shift as I think so many people experience this because the invisible labor increases. But the other thing that also increases is our assumptions of each other. And if we just rewind the tape. It also happened right here where I'm think I'm doing so much. And here you are rolling your eyes at me.

How dare you to get this podcast set up if people could only see behind the camera.

I know.

It's just a dog's breakfast.

Right before we pressed record, Greg was trying to plug in something on the other side of the camera. And then his leg is wrapped around an extension cord. Oh, my goodness. Okay, where are we going today? We're talking about the roommate season. We're talking about disconnection and how the holiday season is not the time that you want to feel like roommates. It's actually the time where you want to feel close and on the same team. And so we're going to talk a little bit about why do we feel like roommates in this season.

Well, but it's also the season you're least likely to because of all the things I think is kind of the point, isn't it?

Tell me more about that.

Well, you want to feel connected you want to have this great time, but there's. I guess what I'm saying, there's all these externalities in the holiday season that you probably do have at other times of the year, but it's on like, it's at a level 10. Right. So it's like the time you want to have the most connection with the highest time of or opportunity for disconnection.

Yes. And we're going to talk today about what couples think the fix is, but it's not actually the fix. And then we're going to leave you with something to really help with that connection. And I'm going to pause here, actually, before we even get started. If you've been in our community, you know, one of our favorite resources is the More Than Roommates challenge. And it is coming, coming up. We are starting soon. The link is in the show notes. What is it that you love about the Our ten day More Than Roommates challenge?

I mean, from a guy's perspective, it's just like, it's contained. It's beginning, middle, end. It's simple. There's like scripts in there, like, literally what to say. I honestly, I think what it boils down to, it's kind of like the workout app that I like. It just tells me what to do.

Yeah. Greg and I are both obsessed with Ladder. They're not.

Not a sponsor. No free ads. Dr. Tracy. Um, but listen, it's not a complete overhaul, but it's like, here's what to do for 10 days to make a meaningful shift. But it's realistic, it's reasonable. It's also, I'm obviously biased, but it's also based on you as a clinician and like a trained expert versus other things in the marketplace where, you know, the barrier to entry is low.

So, I mean, it's sure anyone can chatgpt this.

Yeah. This is not that.

This is not that. And, and this is. I think you and I are talking about how did we create this? Why did we create this? And this was be. It really came from this. What's this? Pattern interrupter. What's this ability description of it. Yes. This ability to say, you know what? We don't have this moment right here. Especially before the holidays.

Exactly.

To be star couples therapy. To read a book. To do all the things.

Yeah. Here's a book. 200 page. Good luck, mate.

Right. Meanwhile, I'm feeling irritated and angry at you because you're asking me where the tape is. I don't have time to do that. But this instead is one small, powerful Thing. And I'm not going to tell you to kiss your partner. That's not. You can go do that. You can go and hug your partner. That's not what this is. But it's to get you to start having that feeling inside where you want to be close with them. So we're starting soon. Link is in the show notes. But let's go back to this very real reason why couples feel like roommates during the holidays. And you actually just triggered this memory about connection. Let's go on a journey together.

Here we go, folks.

Because I know Christmas morning, so we celebrate Christmas and on Christmas morning, I often have this really internal, difficult feeling in our. In our marriage.

So tell me more.

Let's get curious. You're on the couch and I know you're in the moment. You're drinking your coffee, you're relaxed, you're watching the kids open the gifts. But who's deciding what gifts are open next? Who's passing them to the kids? Who knows what's in each box? Who's on the floor pulling back the wrapping paper so we don't lose the bits and pieces of the toy? They've already exploded open.

Right.

And in those moments, it's like the culmination. Is that the right word?

I think so.

Of all of these micro moments, I hold and you're there just joyfully watching the kids. And I look over at you, you're being present, which I course following our autopilot episode. Right, I get that. But in that moment, I don't feel connected with you because I feel like I am the orchestrator. And I'm like, you know, like do like piano, violin, strings, like, you know, I'm doing all the things and you're over there. And all I really want is connection. I want connection. But the mental load is so heavy in my mind. And that's why when you came in the other night and you're like, where's the tape? Like, really?

Yeah. But that's interesting though. So on that Christmas morning, so this is maybe from a guy's perspective, what is it leading you to feel like you have to keep doing that instead of just being present? Is it because of all these things you're talking about leading up to it?

Partly. I get into my stories, I get into my assumptions. You're not going to do it. Who else will do it? I know all these things. And then it goes even further. And I think this is really where we need to dig deeper into it because whether we're talking about the holidays, your Birthday, the date, the in laws, the sex, the kids, what's underneath it. And the stories we tell ourselves is exactly what keeps us stuck. That story. So if you're listening and you haven't yet downloaded our free guide, I have 10 questions to help you get out of your negative stories. Because we all have them. We all do.

It's normal.

Totally normal. But if you don't recognize what those stories are, you're going to keep spinning. And as we were thinking about this episode today, I had said to Greg, you know, here's the thing. We get disconnected when stress increases. Everybody does. And as you disconnect, your negative emotions start to take over. And as soon as those negative feelings, because you're not feeling connected come in, your stories increase. Your negative stories. I'm no longer giving you permission for the socks on the floor. I see the mug left beside the.

Confirmation bias just goes off the charts.

Negative sentiment override. That's it is exactly what takes over in that moment. Negative sentiment override. I cannot see the positive. And then that leads me to not come to you and be close to you instead. You feel my prickles. And what do you do when you feel my prickles?

You're like Bowser.

Oh, no, that's an awful image. No, I'm just princess. I just want to be loved.

No, but see, that's my. That's my negative story.

Right, Right. You see me as Bowser, and so you then withdraw from me and you go into your stories. And what are your stories?

You want it to be perfect. You want control. I'm just going to let her do it. There you go.

Yeah.

And then there you are Christmas morning.

Controlling, trying to make it perfect and resentful because it's all on me.

And. And you're just confirming all my stories.

Oh, my gosh. I know. And this is. This is the cycle. This is. It's such a real experience for couples to get stuck into this. And that's not really what it's about. So why do we feel like roommates during the holidays? Okay, we have got increased tasks, which means lower bandwidth. You come asking me for the tape. I just have no bandwidth to answer the 150th question for the day.

Yeah, the little stuff.

Yeah, the emotional labor totally takes over. And when those two things come in, then our nervous systems start to run on fight orf flight. Like I'm constantly go, go, go, go, go. And I know that's not just me. I know you have a running list, too.

Yeah, it's. I. It's different, though.

What. What does your nervous system look like with the increased stress?

Yeah. I think as maybe someone who's like a procrastinator or an avoider. It's like, oh, I got to do all the things. But, like, how do I get started?

I think this connects to the autopilot mode that you go into. I'll put the autopilot episode in the show notes because I really like that one. And it's such a good one. And it's relevant around the holidays, too, though, because if your nervous system. Because here's the thing, and this is the four parts of our nervous system. When we are dysregulated, we go into fight, flight, freeze functions. And that autopilot is really that freezing, fawning mode. And we're not gonna move anywhere. Okay. And then, of course, all of this. If your nervous systems are in fight or flight, it is impossible to be intimate. We're not going to be playful with each other. There's no pleasure and fun. Intimacy just takes the backseat. And it's like, that's considered almost a luxury. We're not doing it at this time. But then, as I've already said, our assumptions really increase. So when we're overloaded, I think, and especially as parents, but for any couple, we then go into parallel functioning. We are two ships passing in the night. We're living side by side. And right here is the moment we feel like roommates.

Yeah.

Yes.

Taskmasters.

And it goes back to that research. The research of couples to young kids is that they connect for 30 minutes a week. They're talking to each other 30 minutes a week. And that 30 minutes a week, which is crazy scary. The research shows that the parents are spending most of their time talking about transactional items.

Logistics.

Logistics. And the holiday season. Then is. Did you pick up that gift? Who's wrapping that? Did you respond to your mom's text?

Yeah, it just magnifies it.

That's kind of the teachers. Oh, my gosh, my love, my med. The teacher's gifts.

That's kind of my point earlier is. Right.

Yes.

It's all the things at this time.

Of year for most, and I think sometimes, too. Then for you, what ends up happening is you go into the space of like, oh, we're fine. Because that's kind of where you go. You go into autopilot. You keep trucking along, and I don't feel that connection with you. And that right there is like, where we start to roar.

Yeah. That's where we do. Is that where Most do, though. Like, based on your experience with couples.

Is it kind of the same then that disconnection space?

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely right. Because if you're feeling. And because here's the thing, too, I think there's always two elements to this conversation. There's one piece to say we feel disconnected, we feel like roommates. There's another thing to say, we feel like roommates, but we're in this together, and we know it's going to change. And you and I have had both of those seasons, for sure. And I can think of when the kids were really young and we would flop on the couch afterwards, and it was one thing for us to look over at each other and say, we're in this together. We feel like roommates. I can't wait for us to come back and have more time and have the date night. And that. There was a sense of we ness and togetherness on that.

Is there a third piece, though, that I wonder? Like, it's one thing for a couple to say, oh, we know it's going to change. I would imagine for a lot, too, there might be. We're in this together. We intend for it to change. We'd like it to change, but we're just stuck.

Oh, yeah. Yes, yes, yes.

You know what I mean?

Yes. Oh, I see what you're saying. The discount.

To know it, to know it's going to change, is that takes a lot of confidence. And, like, I don't. I don't know that a lot of folks who are kind of stuck here would, like, definitively say, we know it's going to change. They want it to change or intended.

Oh, you're even talking about stages of change in some way, which is like.

Don'T want to get us off track.

Yeah, but I'm thinking of, you know, pre contemplation. Contemplation. Like, but. But it. But it is, though, right? Because it's one thing to recognize. And actually, I have a reel that goes viral every time we post it up. And it is about how a relationship can change to this roommate season and this one specifically. People comment saying, we're just four years in our relationship, and we already look like we're 10 and we're so far apart. And my question back to people is, are you on the same page and do you both want to change this? And I believe that there are some people who do get stuck in that kind of helpless, hopeless feeling.

Sure.

Instead of moving forward.

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All right, we're back. So let's talk about some of those common pain points that we've seen in the community people have shared with us.

Yeah, a lot of this is actually just direct feedback from previous participants. The roommate Challenge. So again, this is kind of specific to this time of year, but I think they're transferable. Right. So doing all the gifts, organizing traditions, that kind of thing. So right now it's holiday gifts. Could be birthday gifts, could be Hanukkah gifts, all that kind of thing. Feeling responsible for the air quotes. Christmas magic.

Christmas holiday magic.

Yeah. So what is that? Going to the parade?

Yes.

Getting photos with.

We missed the parade this year. It completely slipped my mind. I know.

Right? But the Christmas magic. I picked up little advent calendar things yesterday And I've been thinking, how many times have I thought about Advent calendars? And it's like, wait on me, and I'll own responsibility for that because I haven't said anything to you.

That's right. Yeah. I think there's a piece here maybe to flag from the dude's perspective that I just want to. Because it's like. And this is where I think the mental load gets a little sticky. Hear me out. It's real. But if you're not communicating it and just, like, wallowing in it, it gets.

I just looked at the camera. Okay. I 100% agree. This is the.

Can't just hammer people.

No, no, no.

After the fact.

Buckle up, Greg. I 100% agree. I am guilty of holding. I love. I can. Like, you know, my nanny used to save Kleenex boxes.

Yeah.

I save these ideas in my brain. I don't share them with you. And that is 100% me hoarding the load. Like, I know I do it. And I will say you're a hoarder sometimes. I'm not a hoarder. Sometimes I like this stuff. Like the Advent calendar.

Exactly. That's what I mean.

I love it. You know, the gift finding. Love it.

Point is, you can't have this place.

No, but the piece that you're making missing, though, is how did I then get responsible for thinking about when is the Santa Claus parade? Because we know the magic of Santa is not. Anyways, we'll have to hit one of the small community ones around here, which is also equally lovely. But why do I hold that? Why don't you come to me? And that's. That's the, like, linchpin in the mental load is how come I'm starting finding the. Greg, like, oh, gosh, what did I open? Why am I starting the load here? So my question to you then is, but when, then when would you look up the Christmas gift?

The day before.

Which we have some people in our circle that I can remember, like, the day before Christmas, he would go out and get his wife's gifts. And I'm like, oh, that is so risky. That's not how I operate. And so with that being said, though, this is really where I do love Eve's fair play system. Because when you divide the cards, then it becomes your task to do it. And, hey, if you're going to risk it the day before trying to get all those gifts, I would not want to be you. Okay, let's keep going. We'll just drop the Fridays. Okay. Keeping track of school Concerts, teacher gifts, holiday cards, partner saying, just tell me what to do.

No sex or affection, physical intimacy, conflict over finances or family. Family planning, Family planning. Alternating who goes where when, who's communicating when.

Right. Is it a group text? Is, you know, in a header relationship? Is the woman responsible for having to respond to things also too great plug for my second book. You, your husb and his mother have a system for this holiday season. So you are not scapegoated or made the bad guy, but just to have a good relationship with your.

And really the one that just sums it up is feeling like co parents or logistical managers.

Yeah. You're not even together. I wonder what it's like to be you then as a dad, because you're saying I'm prickly, I'm perfectionistic and controlling.

Well, it makes you feel like you've failed before you even had a chance.

Which doesn't feel good. Right? Like, no. And I think that's really, really hard. And so I think this is where resentment, disconnection, and feeling unseen really does start. And this is the holiday mental load trap. Because we're so busy, we don't slow down and we're snowballing down the hill. I mean, and, and I did, I did pause last night to invite you in on some of the gift purchasing. And then we were a team because then I said, hey, you know what? Can you do this?

So what you're saying is you communicated your, your needs so I don't have to read your mind.

Well, that's saucy.

But I'm being facetious, but I'm sure there's some dudes thinking that like, holy, like I want to help, but absolutely.

So here's, here's the piece though, and for partners who are listening, because I always love in this community when I know the majority of listeners are women, but when you put this on with your partner, maybe you can chuckle because you can relate to our dynamic. But the piece here around the mental load is that there are all of these different elements to the mental load. It's not just that I am buying a gift. I have to then consider our budget. I have to think about where I'm going to get it from. Is it a delivery? Am I picking it up at the kids store down the street? Right. So the mental load isn't just about the actual task. It's about the thinking, the planning, the pre planning, anticipating. And even still, if I had left that one gift with our daughter off the table, it wouldn't have been here on time. I Had to like maneuver around it. Like all of those things are in that. And I think, think then what it really comes back to is how do couples create structure in this so that you're not two ships passing in the night. Which really is where we're gonna go with the 10 minute connection reset. Cause I think that that's just a really great landing place. What else happens around the mental though trap here? This is this piece around when there's unseen work, when there's invisible stuff, then the person starts to feel unseen. And that's the story I get into. It's like, do you see me? Do you see everything that I do? Do I even matter in this? Which is like I can get pulled down really quick.

Yeah. It's kind of going existential quickly.

But it's hard though, if I'm not sharing with you. But you're also not seeing it. It's that vicious cycle. And then what happens from there is Greg withdraws. There's the withdrawal, the emotional withdrawal. And that's our negative cycle. Exactly it.

Yeah. Textbook.

Yes. And I think the thing here is that it really isn't about the gifts. It's not about who remembered the parade, who replies the holidays. It's about being a team.

Great.

Being on the same team.

Shoulder to shoulder against the problem.

Yes.

I always like that image. The problem's in front of you. I think that's the one you've.

That's my favorite.

Not between you.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's kind of the analogy that. Or image that I go to.

I love saying to couples, sit at the dinner table side by side.

Yeah.

Put a piece of paper in front of you and you put the problem on the paper.

Yeah.

It's not what I'm doing more of. And you're not doing any of. It's a. Here are all the things that are running through my mind. How can we do this differently right now? And that does require me willing to sit down and come from a place not of blame and criticism. Because it's easy to get stuck in. And it also requires you to show up, not defensively, but taking true ownership for some of these things.

Curiosity, defenses down, that kind of thing. Okay. I think another place people maybe get stuck is like they look for these quick fixes or things they think might fix this in the moment. Like, what does that look like?

Okay, so the quick fixes, delegating tasks, it's.

But whoa, hang on. Isn't that what you want to do?

No. You need to come to it together. It's Not. It's not the. Just tell me how to help and I'll give you the list. Because that puts me in the manager position. Know, I don't want to be the manager. Women do not want to be your mother. They don't want to be your manager. They want to be co partners. Co owners. Which means we're brainstorming CEOs. Exactly. We're brainstorming together. I think the other thing too, that people think are going to fix this is this idea of saying, well, if you just hugged me, well, if you just came to me, well, why don't we snuggle or something? Like, I think that's this, like, band aid solution that comes in, like, when you're exhausted. It really doesn't necessarily feel good.

It's not as meaningful.

Not necessarily because you're tired. That's not really tackling the mental load of the holiday season. I know so many couples do this. They plan a date night, but then it turns into complete logistics, which for some people, that can help them feel like a team. You know, I'm thinking of one couple, they have a date. Like, they get a babysitter and they go out, they do all their holiday shopping together, and they feel connected over it.

Yeah. That might be the exception, though. I think a lot of people, you know, I'm picturing a couple, they go out for dinner. Then I'm just talking logistics because they're. That's like the. The roommate phase in action.

Yes.

Right. Instead of connecting and being romantic, it's just back to the.

We're doing, like.

And then the next day they feel like roommates. Of course you do, like, yes.

And. And I think that speaks to what does it actually mean to have time together. Time together is about play and curiosity experiences. It is about parking the everyday tasks regularly to come together. So I think this is a great place to remind people about the More Than Roommates challenge. We are starting soon. The link is in the show notes. It is 10 days. I intentionally put it right here at this time of the year because I know how busy you are. And I love how every single day you get one small thing for you to do. Actually, you get three, but you get to choose which one you do.

Yeah. Communication scripts.

Yes.

Mindset shifts, which I think is really kind of the assumptions piece. And then just a little like action point, something to do that's take action simple.

I also created it with the intention of knowing everybody comes into the challenge at a different place. Some people tell me that they have young kids and so they're not sleeping through the night. Some people tell me they haven't been physical for two years. Others are with teenagers and are feeling far apart. And so this is going to meet you where you're at and you get to choose what fits best for you. Some people do all three, some people do one because it's kind of this stepped approach. And that's really where my clinical piece comes in here is I'm not going to give you the hardest thing at the start. Yeah, we need to build this up. But I also love that it's a containment of 10 days. We all have 10 days. And I love that with the challenge, we have this community with it to keep you on track. Because I don't know about you, but.

If I like my workout accountability piece.

Yeah, totally. My workout thing right now, I'm trying to, like, make sure I meet a certain number and with illness and travel and whatever, it's just been super hard. So I love the accountability. All right, let's talk about this one thing that you can do going into the holidays. And this is our 10 minute connection reset. And I, I really think what's important here is we're not saying to you you need more time. I think the important thing here is you don't need more time, you need more intentional connection. So this is a one small daily ritual. You're going to find one thing, we'll share what we do. And it's the same thing you do every day. It's an intentional choice. You're gonna go to your partner and you're gonna say, let's do this together.

Yeah.

And for us, I really love our 10 minutes in the morning. So I know a lot of people don't have time to wake up before the kids, but this is. If it's in the evening, if it's before the kids get home from school.

Or daycare, just 10 minutes. You just got a crowbar in there.

And the thing too is, I know so many people say to me, we don't have time. And I believe you. I'm asking you to shift where time goes.

That's right. We're not. Not asking for more time because you don't have more time. There is no such thing, not get.

More time in your day. But it's a shifting. And so if you are someone, and this is where James Clear Strategies even come in, if you are someone who likes to flop in from the tv, someone had just asked me, what do we do with the. When we're in this TV rut? TV's okay. It's not a bad thing. Maybe that's the way your nervous system needs to relax right now. Give yourself 10 minutes first to connect. No distractions, no TV, before you turn on the TV. So that's James Clear's. Before I get to. I have to. Yeah, right. Before I can do the pleasurable thing, I want to. I have to. Although it makes it sound like the 10 minute connection's not pleasurable, but you get what I mean. Before I get my want, I need to. And within that 10 minute ritual, what you and I have done, that I've enjoyed. And I will also tell listeners how it went. The first time our favorite question did come from the Gotmans. I heard them say this on a podcast, which is, how is your heart and mind today? The first time I asked Greg, there wasn't much that he shared. We've been doing it now for a few years.

Yeah, it's back and forth.

Yeah. But the first time you didn't have much to share. When I had asked you, you're like, good.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, we'll try again tomorrow. But now we've been able to sink into that question a bit more. And I think there's so much within doing this together, which is we're regulating our nervous Systems through those 10 minutes. We are signaling partnership together. If there is anything pressing that we have to address, we can do it in that moment. Although it sets us up for this sense of connection that then we can do the logistics.

The idea is not to be logistics. Exactly. Is there another question that might be good that you've heard?

I also like to talk about what is something stressful that's coming up this week and how can I support you through that?

Yes, that's a good one.

And the other one that might feel a little trickier is, was there a time in this past week, Actually, I don't want to do that. One I would want you to do, because I'm thinking, how do we create connection and attunement, emotional attunement? I want you to feel more of this in your relationship. How can I show you my love this week? Or how can I show you that you matter this week? And the intention of these questions also is not to bring in blame, defensiveness, criticism. It's to bring in that sense of. Tell me more about that.

Yeah, Curiosity.

Yeah, that's interesting. Like, what would that look like if someone says, you know what, have this high mental load. I need some more reassurance this week. Then your partner's job is to say, what would that look like? Or tell me more about that.

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I think those those responses are equally as important for the dudes listening up there. Tell me more.

Well, for anybody, really.

I know but what do you think.

Of our 10 minute ritual?

It's nice. So to be more specific, it's just first Thing in the morning when we get up, we light a candle.

No, the candle's been a nice touch.

No devices.

That's also been so important.

It's a must. And it's just a great way to start a day now. It works in our schedule. Our kids school starts a bit later. Not everyone is going to have that luxury. I think your point about not finding more time but reframing this 10 minutes. People can do it.

There's also this other piece in here where I know another couple both started to wake up at 5am that might not be your journey. And that's okay. Maybe it's 5:50, maybe it's 6:10. There's a little bit before your kids wake up. But they thrive during that time. And I do believe that. I know I am a better mom, I'm a better partner, I'm all around more grounded when I have this time to myself or feeling connected and regulated with you before the chaos of the day starts.

And if you're taking the More Than Roommates challenge, it's a perfect time to execute the.

Oh yes.

Daily action or.

Or communication script. Yeah. Oh, I love that. A question.

You don't even need 10 minutes. That's the cool part.

That is the cool part. And a question I often get is what if my partner doesn't want to do the challenge with me? You can still do the challenge. And I have many people that go through it on their own and they do say we feel closer because I did that piece. And then sometimes they do it again because you keep the challenge, the days.

Yeah.

And then they go back and do it again and then maybe they go to do it together.

Is there some research around change when it's one sided?

Yeah. This comes from more of a systems theory perspective. Is that because relationships, all relationships are bi. Directional.

Yeah.

And there are two people in it. Which means that anything I do creates an action and reaction in you.

Right.

And so you and I are in this system. I'm drawing an infinity loop. And so then when I start to do something different over time, it can elicit a different response from you.

Right.

To be.

It can be slow though.

That's to be the change. You have to do the change first. But I mean even when both people are doing it though love like change is slow.

That's true.

It's like relationships are so hard. Nothing is fast, nothing is done overnight. Okay, here are a few things I want to leave you with from our conversation today. So first, I think what's so important is looking at Holidays as having a good enough conversation. And you've just heard us today. We're having a good enough holiday. We are on the heels of a book launch. We are busy. We're parents.

Everyone's busy.

We're all busy. Well, that, that's why I said that we're busy. You know, and I think there's this something really important about understanding that you don't hit all the things. And one of my favorite things to remind my clients this time of year is do you want your kids to remember your presence or the stress of your nervous system? And you can change how that feels like our kids will not, you know, be in therapy in 15 years saying, and then that one year when mom didn't take us to the holiday parade and make us stand outside in the cold.

Hopefully not.

When you think about this time, choose one tradition that you each care about. Share your to do list together. Have a two minute morning touch point. I think that is so important. And then also the words of appreciation. You and I have talked a lot about that. How appreciation for each other, acknowledgement, recognition goes, goes such a long way.

Yeah.

And I think it's important for you to recognize that you do have the power inside of you to redefine how this time is going to feel with one small thing every single day.

Yeah. Especially if you're stuck in that negative sentiment override.

I think the other thing too, for people to remember is that when you feel connected, everything just feels lighter. You are not getting stuck in the stories. You have more positive affect together, which is bonding for people. You're more likely to reach for each other and to be close and to have the hugs. And I even think about parenting, how it just feels easier when we're in it together.

It's almost just math. There's two of you going in the same direction versus one.

Yes, absolutely. All right, Greg, do you have any last thoughts as we wrap up our conversation today?

Yeah, I think, I think from a bigger picture perspective, it was really just kind of realizing that you weren't asking for perfection in all these moments. Even though on the surface it might feel like it with the control and all the things in the mental load, but really what you're asking for is partnership participation kind of engagement. So really that meant I need to kind of like get out of my head, get out of my assumptions, perceptions that sentiment override and kind of just take the risk to just be with you and do the things.

What would be one thing you would say to another person or man to reach for that connection with their partner.

If they're stuck in the roommate season or more specifically, around kind of the.

Holidays, both, like, both end.

That's a great question. Okay, so to answer the question, it really is about starting small and just trying one thing, just reaching out, doing the one thing. I think we get. Like, I get stuck. I imagine many dudes get stuck when. When we get this feedback, it's like, man, this is so much. Where do I even start? So it's like I'm just gonna lean in and take on one thing and communicate it to you and kind of be proactive.

Yeah, I think that's so important. It's like, don't make it big. Don't live in the future.

Don't control the outcome.

Stay here. It's one small moment. I love that. Thank you so much. Okay. I just want to remind you, it's completely normal to feel overwhelmed at this time of the year. It's also incredibly normal to feel like you are two ships passing in the night. And I also want to remind you you're not failing in your relationship if this is where you are. And let's bring more compassion to the real struggle of what it means to be in a long term, committed relationship. And at the same time, I want you to remember that you can take that one small step forward today. So if you're looking for more support, I've got the link for my More Than Roommates challenge. It's just 10 days. It's. It's in the show notes. Join us in that challenge. And I'm going to pause before we click off here. And I want to invite you to think, what is the one thing that I can do today to turn toward my partner? Just one small thing. Don't make it big. Don't get stuck in your head. Come into presence. Remember, this is the person that you've connected with and that you care with, that you care about. All right, let's wrap up. Thank you for joining us here. Be sure to go into the show notes and grab one of my resources. So download the 10 questions to get you out of those sticky stories that are driving you further apart, or be sure to join our roommate challenge. I've got the links in the show notes, and I am so grateful that you're here. If anything resonated from today, share it with a friend.

All right.

Thank you for clicking play. Remember that you are right where you need to be. I have to remind you at the end of every podcast episode that this is for educational purposes only. And does not substitute the care from a licensed mental health care provider. Until next time.

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