Menopause Support LIVE with Eliza & Jennifer | Night Sweats, Hormone Therapy After 60 & More

Okay, so we are recording. We are ready to go.

Awesome.

Hi, Jennifer.

Hello, how are you?

I'm good. How are you?

I am fantastic. Thanks.

Let me just make sure. Okay, we have— we also have— I just wanna make sure I'm looking at the chat correctly so that if anyone has any questions, please, you know, if anyone here with us has questions, you can put them in the In the chats, and we'll make sure that we see them. I hope— hopefully, if you're here with us, let us know. I can keep an eye on that too. Yeah, what's that?

I can keep an eye on the chat. And if, Michelle, if you would like to join us, you're welcome to join in the conversation as well.

Absolutely.

All right.

Well, thank you so much for being here for this episode of Menopause Support Live. We're here, uh, Jennifer. Uh, Jennifer, why don't you tell us about, about yourself first?

So, uh, I am a care provider in the menopause support group, just like Eliza is. It's an amazing opportunity for just so much conversation within the group, but sometimes the group can get a little crazy and a little wild. Um, so I am a dietitian and a therapist and a diabetes educator and have about 30 years, um, in the, the industry. And I'm also in postmenopause myself, so understand menopause from a personal and a professional Level, and it's a lot. It can be a lot. So grateful to be here and having this conversation with you, Eliza.

Yeah, me too. I'm excited about it. And I also appreciate you sharing that because I I don't know why I didn't like make the connection. Like you're you're a dietitian, yes?

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Right. And and you also deal with you also help people with diabetes. It's interesting. The reason I say it is because so often, you know, women I talk to, you know, they're having all these struggles, and they also have diabetes. Like that. That throws a whole other wrench into it. So it's like, I can help you with these things, but you really need to see someone about the diabetes. Like, you need to see someone who's a specialist in that, and that is not me. So I'm Eliza Riley. I am a holistic health coach and a menopause coaching specialist, and I'm 51 and still perimenopausal. I'm still having—

Congratulations.

I know. I haven't missed one yet. I keep waiting. I keep thinking maybe this is the month. I'm actually Spotting right now, so no, not this month.

Not this month. We will see.

We will keep our fingers crossed, and we will see. Before we dive in, because we do have some wonderful questions to to cover today, but before we dive in, I would just like to share a quick note. While and I have some notes over here, so this is where I'm going to keep my my I'm going to keep looking over here to to read the questions. But before we dive in, while Jennifer and I both have experience supporting women through perimenopause and beyond, we are not your personal practitioners. What we share tonight is for educational purposes only and not meant to replace medical advice. Always consult your own healthcare provider before making changes to your routine.

Cool? Cool. Super cool.

All right. Well, let's get into it. So, the first question, we actually have a couple of questions from last week that we, that we didn't have time for because we do want to keep this, you know, fairly short, very fairly quick where we get in here, we give you guys some good information, we answer your questions, and then we, we get back on with our day. So, us as well as you guys. So, so one of the questions from Stephanie— I apologize, let me just go back to that real quick. I do, I am more, I am more organized today than I was last week. It's a work in progress.

Every week we get better and better, right?

So Stephanie shared that she has been taking 250 milligrams of compounded progesterone, which was prescribed by a functional health provider, and she's feeling good on it. She still produces estrogen, so estrogen wasn't prescribed. But at a recent appointment with a provider at Mitty, and I don't know what Mitty is, but maybe you guys do, she was told that the dose was too high. The dose of progesterone was too high, and that she should be on estrogen too for balance. She does not have hot flashes or symptoms suggesting that she's low in estrogen, and now she's confused. Her original appointment with Mitty was actually just to get testosterone cream, but then she got all this other advice. So what do you think, Jennifer?

So I'm going to leave this one to you primarily, but I am going to say that Mitty is an online provider for hormone therapy. So I think that there's many women in the group that have been able to get some relief from using that service and some other online services, just because I know in my particular area, there's not a lot of providers that are very comfortable with hormone therapy. So it's finding that person that you're the right fit with and also feels confident in, you know, what they, what they can do. So Doctors have to know a lot of things about a lot of things, and sometimes hormone therapy is not the thing. So, absolutely.

I do think that, that what Stephanie shared with us is such a great example of how conflicting advice can leave us doubting what's actually working for our body. And the truth is that progesterone and estrogen don't always need to be taken together, especially if your body is still producing estrogen, which many women continue to do well into perimenopause and even into menopause. The idea that estrogen must balance progesterone often comes from outdated thinking. In reality, most women in perimenopause and early menopause, as I mentioned, are dealing with too little progesterone relative to estrogen. Like, that's an important component. Like, you may be making progesterone and you may be making estrogen, but the The the balance is not there, so you'll you'll need more progesterone to bring you up so that it balances with that estrogen better. So giving progesterone alone, especially when it's well tolerated, and like if it's so like if you're taking it and you don't feel well, well feel good. Well, maybe that's not that's not the answer for you. But when you're taking it and you're and you're feeling good, then it's showing that the that it is restoring the balance without needing to add more estrogen. And and 250 milligrams is actually a therapeutic dose. It's often used for women struggling with sleep, anxiety, or any of the— any of those estrogen-dominant symptoms. The biggest thing for me is that piece where she shared that she's feeling good. You know, she's taking the progesterone and she feels good. Because for me, that's the most important key. Like, it's— you can go in and get testing, and if your testing shows that you're— that any of your levels are off, But you feel good. I think that that's the more important piece. Um, I think that we have to remember symptoms are data. Yeah.

And I think so many times we don't trust our own bodies because we get so much conflicting information from whether it's online or friends and family or, you know, some providers or whoever it might be. And it's just like, but we, we don't, we lose that ability or we kind of ignore that. The, the amazing ability that our body has to speak to us. And so when we quiet ourselves down enough, that's what I do a lot of times. And, you know, and I'm talking with somebody from a therapy side of things, if, if we can quiet our bodies enough and our mind enough to really hear what our body is telling us, can tell us amazing things, you know.

Absolutely.

And those, those symptoms that we are having more of or less of is a really good, like you're saying, a very good data point of understanding. Absolutely.

And that's why it's so important to, I think, to, to be journaling, to, to be keeping notes. Because, you know, I'll just share it, and this is not menopause related, but I'm gonna share a quick story with you guys. There was a friend of mine who, she was having a really, really bad tooth pain. She was, and she couldn't afford to go to the dentist, and she didn't have insurance. And so she's like, what can I do to make the pain hurt stop, you know, not be so bad until I can get to the dentist? And I said, have you tried oil pulling? And she's like, well, what is that? So I told her, and she started doing it. And I saw her again about a month later, and I was like, how are you? How is your tooth doing? And she's like, oh, it's fine. It's not bothering me at all. And I'm like, oh, so the oil pulling worked? She goes, oh, I stopped doing that. It wasn't doing anything. I'm like, well, what do you think was the cause?

Right.

Okay. But that's, that's my point is we don't— we, we're so quick to forget.

Yeah.

You know, I'm feeling better, but I don't know why. I'm feeling— I'm not feeling the way that I was feeling, but I don't know why. And so journaling, writing, just writing down what you're doing, how you're feeling, writing those things down can really— it's not about writing it down. It's about going back and making the connections. You know, it's like Hansel and Gretel and the breadcrumbs. Like, you need to follow the path and see where it's leading you.

Well, and let's be honest, brain fog is a thing, right? So I mean, you know, I can barely remember what I had for breakfast, let alone like—

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I don't watch much TV, but every day for lunch we watch— my, my, uh, my guy and I sit down and we watched it. We watch a half-hour program, you know, and every time I'm like, what are we watching? We're watching it for 2 weeks. What are we watching?

I don't even know.

Yeah, write it down.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay, so the next question, if you're ready to move on, Jennifer.

Sure. Yeah.

So Elena, let me find— I have, I have the name over here. Let me write it down. Elena. Elena asked how long— and it's funny, I see this question so often. I'm sure you do too, Jennifer. How long does it take to feel better after you start taking hormone therapy?

And I, again, I think that's very individualized to the person, but also how aware of the symptoms are you of, of what your body is experiencing prior to, and then once you start. And to your point, as your friend And, you know, we start to feel better, we start to sleep better, and we're like, oh, my sleep is getting better. But we don't necessarily associate that with the HRT. And we don't, you know, or my cravings are better, and we don't necessarily associate that. And I see a lot of women talking in the group about, you know, I feel horrible after I start hormone therapy, or I feel great after I start hormone therapy. But if we're not keeping track and keeping records and writing some of this stuff down so that we can see the pattern of those symptoms, Maybe, maybe we started to exercise a little bit more, so we slept a little bit better. Maybe we stopped eating, you know, drinking coffee after a certain time of the day. Maybe that helped contribute to it. But unless we're actually keeping those records, we don't really know. And so, so my answer to that question is it's very individualized. There's no black and white to you're going to feel 24 hours after you start, you're going to feel this way. You know, unfortunately, fortunately and unfortunately, we're all unique. And so when we try and put all menopausal women in a box and say hormone replacement therapy will have this response for you, I think that's really unfair to the individual person that we're talking to. But also it clouds our thinking of like, well, I don't feel better after 24 hours, so there must be something wrong with me. Um, you know, it's very, very individualized on the person. So it's a conversation that I would encourage women to have with their providers and whoever prescribed it. And just you know get some kind of guidelines of maybe what they've seen in the past. But even that can't be precise because everybody's different.

Exactly. That was that was exactly my thoughts on it is that it's there's there's so many pieces of the puzzle that that that contribute to the answer. Like it is our our bodies are unique. Also, it depends and and again, I don't think that this gets talked about enough, but it depends about it depends on what hormones you're taking and the form that you're taking them in. You know, topical versus sublingual versus Oral, like there's so many different ways that that you're getting them into your body. Also, I think it depends on how depleted you are in those hormones before you start taking them. And and I think that the biggest for me, at least at least for me, and I think that the reason for this, the reason why I say this is probably the the most important piece of it is because it's the one that we actually have some control over. Is it depends upon how ready our bodies are to, to you, to use the, those, those hormones. Um, we, if you're not also addressing root issues like your blood sugar, um, your stress, your inflammation, your gut health, your liver, your adrenals, like if you're not also addressing all of those root things that are going to, to either open up and allow your body to, to utilize the hormones properly or not, like, um, that says a lot about whether or not you're going to start feeling better right away or Or maybe not at all. Like, so many women come into the group and say, I started to take— I did the HRT and I don't— I didn't feel any better. But you then— that's when you have to get into, well, how's your gut health? How is your liver health? How's your adrenal health? Like, you have to look at all these things because whether you are making the hormones or adding them to your body, if your body doesn't know what to do with them, it's not going to make a difference. It's not going to make you feel better.

Right.

Yeah.

Such a complex situation.

It really is. Yeah. I wish that there was a quick answer for that. Yeah, I wish. And I mean, it would be so great if, like, yes, here's the hormone. Take it. You're going to feel great tomorrow. That would be so great. Yeah, it would be. But the reality is we do have a lot of control over what's happening in our bodies. You know, we're— it's not, it's not one of those situ— these situations where, well, this is just how I am, right? This is just how my body is. No, we have control. We can change. We can change what we're putting into our body. We can change what we're putting on our skin. We can change so many things about, about the things that affect our hormone production or use. So.

Right. And that's the great thing, right? That's the blessing of all of this is we get to choose.

Yeah.

You know, some of you watching may be like, I wouldn't choose to feel this way if I could do something different. But my point is you can choose to do— you can choose to continue to learn, you can choose to continue to have the conversation, continue to try different things that can help, you know, talk to different experts like Eliza and myself about what are some other things that maybe you haven't thought about. Because when we're in the middle of it, it's like sinking into quicksand, right? The, the more overwhelmed you get, this— the deeper you, you go. And so really getting more, more, uh, conversation going and more communication about this is how I'm feeling, having those honest conversations of This hormone therapy isn't working for me right now. Is there something else that I need to do, or do I need to let it? You know, do I need to take it for longer, or do I need a different combination? But but nobody knows your body better than you. So trusting that intuitive piece inside of you that says I need something different, or I just need somebody to tell me that I'm doing you know I'm just go keep going. Like you know all of that is important from a mental and emotional and physical standpoint. None of it. None of it doesn't matter. It all matters.

So absolutely, absolutely. I think too, one of the— I think that what you're, what you're saying there is, is one of the hardest parts about dealing with all of this is that so often we, we have, we have a hard time finding clinicians who are going to listen and who are going to take our individual individuality and our individual response to what they're giving us And and and use that, you know, like even you know like most doctors will not, and you don't even need a prescription to get a transdermal progesterone or or I don't think I don't know about estrogen. You may need a prescription for that, but I know for progesterone you don't. Like you can get that over the counter, and there and some there's some really good ones out there. But if your doctor has given you, and this was my experience, my doctor gave me oral progesterone, and it was bioidentical from a compounding pharmacy, and it gave me. horrible dizzy spells. Horrible. And when I went to see her, she was like, oh, no, no, that can't be the progesterone. But it was so bad, I stopped using the progesterone just to see, because she totally dismissed me, like, nope, that's not it. And so I stopped. But I was only using it for the luteal phase. So 2 weeks on, then 2 weeks off. And when I went off of it, the dizzy spells went off. And then when I started taking it again, they came right back.

Yeah.

And so I just stopped. Just to see what would happen, and they went away again. So I'm like, okay, so clearly, whether she understands or believes or not, this is what's happening to me. And I was— I had been using topical progesterone for a couple of years and loved it. And she was like, oh, if you like that, you're going to love oral. It's going to be even better. I didn't. For my body, it didn't like it. And so I went back to using the topical and just left it at that. That's— I've actually been on topical progesterone for, gosh, like 15 years now. It's been a long time. Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's another piece of it. You go back to your doctor and you say, I don't like the way that this is making me feel, and ask to try a different form of it. Remember that there are other ways of getting it into your body than the ones that most doctors will prescribe.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

All right, next question. And this is from Roxanne. Roxanna has been experiencing extreme nighttime hot flashes every 30 to 60 minutes that wake her up repeatedly throughout the night. She says this has only been happening for about a month, and she still gets irregular heavy periods, but thought she was done with hot flashes. She's also epileptic, so sleep is crucial to her health and seizure prevention. She's asking— and I'm like, there's so much there to unpack, but what she's asking for, her question is, What home remedies can she try to help with the hot flashes before seeing her doctor?

You know what? I'm gonna let you start there. I have some thoughts, but I'm gonna let you start with that one. Okay.

So I think that I do have thoughts on this one. My thoughts are kind of scattered because there is so much there to unpack.

There's a lot.

And this, I do feel like, like for me, this one really hits home because I know how disruptive night sweats can be, even when you don't have another condition. Condition like epilepsy layered in. Because, and for her specifically, poor sleep isn't just frustrating, it's actually dangerous. Because if she doesn't get proper sleep, then that's— there's so many— there's so much brain stuff happening here that is just heartbreaking to me. I was trying to remember, was it— oh, she didn't say she's taking progesterone. So that honestly is probably one of the first things that I would recommend. Again, you don't need to see your doctor to start taking progesterone. And progesterone is a brain protectant. So, I think that she could get a lot of it. It helps with sleep. It helps with lots of different things that are helpful at this time of life. Some other things, though, she can take magnesium glycinate before bed, which is calming and helps with sleep and temperature regulation. And I think another big thing that doesn't get talked enough— talked about enough when it comes to hot flashes and night sweats is Stable blood sugar. And I think that— and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, Jennifer, because I'm not a dietitian. But one of the things that I recommend for women who are struggling with blood sugar is to have a light snack with protein and fat before they go to bed each night.

Mm-hmm.

Now, I've heard good and bad about that. Like, no, no, you need to be fasting. Don't go to bed with food in your stomach. But I do think that I've seen it for myself as well. I used to— I wear a CGM sometimes. My blood sugar will drop Dangerously low at night. But if I have that little snack before I go to bed, it stays quite flat.

Yeah, I think it's similar to, you know, the hormone therapy. I think it's an individualized conversation, right, for whether or not that snack is going to be helpful. I love that you used a CGM. I think CGMs are great. For those of you that don't know what a continuous glucose monitor is, it's basically if you've ever seen anybody with that white circle on their arm, It is a teeny tiny needle that gets inserted into your skin and it stays there. Not painful at all.

Not painful at all. Yeah.

And so then you can use your phone as kind of the sensor and you just swipe it over your arm instead of having to poke your finger repeatedly to see what your blood sugar is. But it's a much better way, a much more convenient way to see what is the, what is the pattern of blood sugar over time, over, over the nighttime, over the daytime, and that type of a thing. So it gives you a little bit more Data to work with, and so yes, sometimes a snack before bed can be helpful. I also think that people really looking at their stress response: how do you handle stress? I was just talking to a client earlier today who's having some breakthrough bleeding that was probably you know caused by or contributed to from you know some stress that she's going through. And so there's all kinds of reasons that people are feeling that stress. There's all kinds of things, and sometimes the stress response can be delayed. So it might be something that you experienced a few weeks ago, and then your body is sort of catching up with that, and that can definitely contribute to hot flashes, disrupted sleep, night sweats, and that type of thing. So, so to me, it's looking at, you know, the nutrition, including blood sugars, the amount of exercise you're getting, the activity that you're getting from a circulation standpoint, because exercise is way more than just about weight loss, and then also the sleep and the stress. And all of those things can either Positively or negatively affect hot flashes. That's not to say that it's your fault that you're doing something wrong because, you know, you're having hot flashes. It's a very natural response in menopause, but there are things that you can do. Many of the things that you mentioned, Eliza, you know, are more kind of those holistic things that we can think about. But really, that, that stress response is really important when it comes to that. And then I've found good success with people taking ashwagandha. As well that sort of helps with those hot flashes and, you know, kind of evens out that, that response too. So I've had good luck with that myself.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. Stress is such a good, a good addition to that. And, and even, and even doing simple things like some, some deep breathing before, you know, some breathwork before you go to bed or, or legs up the wall for 5 minutes can downregulate that stress response. Excuse me, my phone's ringing. I'm just going to turn that off. Okay. Anything else for Roxanne before we move on?

I think that's good.

Okay, good. All right. So this is the last question that I have. I don't know if you brought any, Jennifer, but I'll go ahead and read this one and then we'll see where we are.

Okay? Sure.

So Marla is 65. She had a full hysterectomy at 24. She has been on and off Hormone therapy through the years, but she stopped in 2020. Recently, she's had bouts of night sweats again. Her doctor does not think that she should go back on HRT due to her age, but she's concerned about long-term effects like tendon or collagen loss from low estrogen, and she wants to know if continuing HRT is a good idea for her overall health.

I mean, I guess from my perspective, I would continue to have that conversation with the provider. There's always, you know, a pretty complex story that we all have when it comes to our medical history. So I'd want to make sure that, that it's a continuous conversation that I'm having, you know. And, and the other side to that is, if you're feeling like you're not being supported in the way that you need to be supported, then finding some other— maybe a specialist, you know, some— was this an OB-GYN that she was seeing? I don't think—

She doesn't say. She said her doctor.

Yeah. So, you know, if you're not seeing an OB-GYN to kind of complement maybe what your family physician is telling you, Or maybe there's a naturopath or somebody that is more holistic in the area that, that could be a good complement to your family physician. It's not always something that's a one-conversation answer. And I know that there's as many providers out there as there are opinions that you can get about some of these things. But it's really hard to just say, like, do this based on this one particular piece. It's really important that we're looking at that overall health history and kind of what you're experiencing. But the— I will add as well, and then I'll turn it over to you, Eliza. If you're miserable, you don't have to be miserable. So I would keep asking questions until you figure out a way not to be miserable. That's kind of the bottom line answer for me.

Absolutely. I completely agree with everything you just shared, Jennifer. And I'd just like to add, I do think that this is such an important question. And honestly, I think that, um, I think that it deserves a more nuanced answer than most women get. And, and I'll, and I'll I'll tell you guys honestly, I am not a hormone specialist. So this is my take on on the question for Marla. But take it with take it with that grain of grain of knowledge. It's not my it's not my expertise. But I do feel that at age sixty five, the mainstream medical view on HRT is you're past the window. It's too risky now. And I and I do believe that that's based on outdated studies that that don't that did not look at individualized care. Things like delivery method, which we've talked about several times tonight already, or symptom-driven use. Again, we go back to symptoms as data. So, Marla said she's had— she had a full hysterectomy many years ago. So, the concerns around unopposed estrogen don't apply in the same way. And transdermal estradiol, like, you know, patches or creams, has a very different risk profile than like an oral estrogen. So, um, research supports the idea that estrogen— and I think that this is why Marla is, is asking this question like this because she's concerned about the long-term effects— um, estrogen does have protective effects for bones, for collagen, for your brain, and even for your bladder when they're dosed properly, appropriately. But again, coming back to what Jennifer said, I think it's so important to look at the whole picture, your individual cardiovascular health, your family history, And what you want in terms of quality of life. It's not, it's not just about the risk that's posed. It's about what it is that, that, that you want, what's important to you, and how you want to feel going into this phase of life. So, and again, it comes back to finding a doctor who's going to listen to you and take you individually into, into mind instead of this sort of cookie cutter, you know, this is whatever all women over age 65 get. Yeah, which can be so hard to find.

It can. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so I think there's— I think that women deserve to have a conversation that's very individualized and personalized to them. And the more we can advocate for ourselves, the more we can keep seeking out that information, um, the more readily available it's going to be because we have the internet where we can share ideas. And, you know, we would have never met if it wasn't for the internet. So, you know, continue— yeah, continuing to, to seek answers, to, to be our own best advocates, and, and really look, think outside the box with some of these things. I mean, I— we didn't live as long as we are living now, you know. We didn't have some of these health issues because we just weren't alive this long. So the nice thing is we get the opportunity to have a nice long life, and so that means we need to, you know, really understand what's best for our bodies at this stage, not what used to work, or, you know, what they studied 20 years ago, like the research is, you know, becoming more and more evident. And I believe that it's more useful than maybe it used to be. I think that there's a lot of women who are seeking answers, and I think that the answers are coming, but it takes time, you know. And so we're going to continue to learn and grow as we, as we kind of peel back all the onion layers that, that is menopause, for sure.

Absolutely. And I, I think that, I think that's less about— and no, I'm not going to argue with you, Jennifer, but I'm— but I don't think I don't think it's, it's so much that we're not living as long as we used to, but I think we live very differently than our ancestors did.

Good point.

Yeah. We, we don't, we don't, um, we're not out in the garden, you know, gathering our own food. We're not out hunting. Our guys are not out hunting. Um, we— there's so many toxins and, and, um, and crap that is in our soil and in our air and in our water that our ancestors didn't have to deal with.

Yeah.

And so there's, there's just so many things that are so different. I mean, even just the fact that, um, our ancestors spent much more time outside in fresh air, in the sunlight with their feet on the ground, you know, like we, we lost that. I mean, even, even something as simple as, um, putting rubber on the bottom of our shoes, um, our health, our health, um, outcomes dramatically decreased just with that change. You know, it's such a minor thing. It seems like such a minor thing and something that should have been good for us. It actually caused a lot of health because we disconnected ourselves from the Earth. So there's so many things that make this transition more difficult for us than it was for future— for not future, hopefully not for future generations, for past generations. Hopefully we learn enough that they don't have to struggle so much.

Right.

But yeah, there's so many things that have made it harder for us. And that, that, that means that we— that it just means that we have to be even more vigilant with our own health.

Mm-hmm.

And to another thing that you said, Jennifer, like, one of the— we— for me personally, I can only speak for myself, but I, I do a lot of what I do when it comes to educating women so that you are armed with the knowledge that you can take back to your doctor and say, hey, What about this?

Yeah.

And just let them and let them and let them have that conversation with you. And, and if, if your doctor is not willing to listen to you, then that's a red flag that, that you may not be in the right space.

Mm-hmm. 100%. Yeah, absolutely. What a great conversation.

Yeah, I enjoyed it very much. Yeah.

Yeah.

And I, we are a little past 6:30, but, or 6:30 here, 7:30 for you.

Time zones are a thing.

Well, we'll go ahead and say good night. Go ahead.

Well, I just want to invite anybody that is watching, um, live or the replay, if you have questions, our goal with these lives is really to answer your questions that are in the group. So please continue to, you know, post the questions. If you have something that you want us to answer, it would be awesome if you, if you tagged either Eliza or myself or both of us. So that we are sure that we don't miss it, because man, does that group move quickly some days and sometimes of the day. So if there's a question you have, we're happy to either answer it ourselves, or if it's something that maybe we, you know, want to put out to the other care providers, we can certainly do that as well. But we are here to help you. We're here to guide you and empower you with the information, like Eliza said, so that you can live your best life and go back to your provider, ask questions. All of that kind of stuff. But we're here for you guys.

So absolutely. Yeah. Thank you guys so much for being here with us. Thank you for listening. If you're listening to the replay, we'd love to hear what you thought of, of the session tonight. And again, we'd love to hear your questions so that we have something to talk about.

Yes, very important.

Have a great night, everyone, and we will see you next time.

Bye.