Season 2 | Episode 76 | What we typically do in a first session

Lance, what's up, man?

Bro, how are you doing today? It's good to see you.

Thanks, man. Episode 76, rolling along.

There's a great song, um, I hope that we get to hear on the outro by G Love and the Special Sauce called I-76.

Okay, all right, I was listening. See if he finds that. Hey, you were, uh, away this weekend.

I was. I went on a backpacking trip with, uh, a bunch of guys. Um, we got to go fishing and a lot of hiking. I found out that, uh, I am not in as good shape as I thought I was, which happens. But I also learned that I still got it when it comes to fishing. So got to catch a bunch of golden trout, um, and it was quite, quite, quite a great time. It's so good to be away. I, I literally—

photo of that fly rod there. And I know you were in the Eastern Sierras, which I've never spent time in Eastern Sierras, but I know it's magical, and that's one of my dreams is to be there. So when I saw that fly rod in the Eastern Sierras, I was thinking you were having a magical time. You were, um, probably living in the wild like our author here, Martin Shaw.

I was. I— it was, um, I was— I thought about Martin Shaw a lot while I was out there, you know. I was thinking about like how he would do his trip, and I purposely like stayed away from like any media or any— like I had my cell phone out there but I only used it a couple times to route find. Um, so I was really proud of myself. Like, I was like, wow, I spent a lot of time looking at the news, um, you know, watching, uh, baseball, you know, all the stuff that just like just takes over my mind. Yeah, it's nice to take a break and worry about where I'm gonna get water from.

Yeah, there's something, there's something magical about, uh, when you're in the wilderness, filtering water like through your bottle and just drinking from the creeks and the rivers and the waterfalls. Yeah, I love it.

So the crazy part was while we were there, we were walking, like, I just landed this amazing fish, the fish I showed you. Um, and it was like raining really hard, and then I could hear these like thunder bombers coming down. Then all of a sudden started hailing. This is June, guys. We're in the middle of June, and we got hailed on. Our whole campsite looked like it snowed. So it hailed for about 2 hours. It was crazy. It was, um, like marble-sized hail. Wow. Yeah, it was like, wow, this is, you know, Type 2 fun right now.

Well, we don't have details yet that we're willing to publish, but you and I will— we're very close to finalizing our anxiety intensive in the fall. And that's right, that will not include wilderness necessarily, but we will have beautiful scenery.

Yes, lots of beautiful ocean.

So stay tuned, people, that's coming up. And Lance, guess what I did?

I know you did.

So if DeeDee's listening and Helena, I imagine they're like our number one listeners. Yeah, for sure. I— tier one. I flew to LA and drove to Pepperdine, and I did, uh, Relate Strong training again. I did it in 2015 when I was married strong. Heather and I did. And then I think I did in 2019 with Sharon when I was doing the leadership series there. So went back, wanted to see how Didi does it, and did level— not level, I did Relate Strong training workshop, and then I stayed for the second day, which is basically like training leaders. So that was really good. It was awesome to see Didi work. That was her last one officially she was doing in that position because she'll be full-time chaplain at Pepperdine, which is amazing. And I am close to hopefully doing some Relate Strong trainings here in Texas, whether those are things that open up to the public yet, or I have possibly right now a couple churches I'm going to maybe do some stuff with, some leaders with Relate Strong. So I'm pumped about that.

That's awesome, man. Dude, yeah, I love Relate Strong. It's such a great resource that you can offer to, uh, churches and, um, for people that are kind of on the cusp, like, I don't know if I need therapy, but I could really do Live a little bit better in my life or my marriage. There's like an individual one, there's a couple one. Yeah, and it's a great way to gather around people and talk through your pain and peace cycles and, um, this whole thing called us-ness.

Yeah, it's awesome, and they've done such a good job with the booklets and organizing it and getting people pretty quickly to recognize their pain and peace cycle. And more from like a psychoeducational, right? It's not therapy. Right. Um, but yeah, it may lead people down that therapeutic route as well. Okay, let's, let's hit some announcements. Want to? Let's do it before we do our episode here. Obviously the big one, RT Summit, which again will be in Malibu where I just was. Yeah, it was amazing, of course, like always.

So you had big swell there, didn't you?

There was, there was, I think, big swell, but I'm not, you know, really a surfer, so I wasn't geeking out over it as much. I looked out at it from Pepperdine.

Oh man, you need to go down.

No, you know, I ran— I got to run some trails up though in Westlake Village area, which was my jam that weekend. So March 4th and 5th at Malibu, or at Pepperdine University, Malibu. It's a Thursday, Friday, like 9 to 4, 9 to 5. And yeah, We'll have some event on that Wednesday the 3rd for people who are in town. So yeah, registration is up. We have early bird registration now for the next several months. Uh, and good news already, you and I have said we expect this to fill up. There's a limited amount of capacity and we are already pretty close to, I would call it like 15 to 16% filled., to capacity already in the first several weeks.

So, oh yeah, easily.

You and I think in the next probably a couple of weeks we might be a third of capacity here. So people are signing up, maybe not the next couple weeks, but pretty soon here. Um, so go over to the website, which is essentially restorationtherapysummit.com. Um, it's linked on our Substack, will be in the show notes. Register early bird. There's a student registration as well. There's also a group rate if you bring 10 people or more, so it's great for practices.

Sweet. Yeah, sign up please. It's, it's a great, it's gonna be a great time. Uh, also coming up, we have, um, trainings we're excited about. Uh, the, we have a, oh, actually we're We can only talk about— because this episode won't air until after, um, uh, Michael Pacheco's.

So, well, I hope in case this airs before Michael's Pacheco's—

yeah, this is like the day it airs. Um, Michael has like 4 slots left in his, in his, uh, Level 1 training, so sign up for it. It's June 26th to the 27th if you're hearing this, of 2026. Um, also Um, for my Level 2 training coming up, I have, um, uh, 3 slots left if you want to come join me, um, and, uh, learn about taking Restoration Therapy to the Level 2 status where you get to level up, um, and join us. It'll be fun.

Sweet.

Yeah. Hey, what are we talking about today?

Yeah, you and I, we, we're just doing a you and I episode. We had a guest, awesome guest, but we had to rebook him because of some stuff he had to do. Yeah, good stuff he had to do. He's called to serve at a camp, and so we will catch up with him later. But one thing you, you have been wanting to talk about for a while, we thought we would just take a little bit of time to dive in today, is, um, what do we do in the first session? Yes, as a therapist. Um, yeah, because You know, we can think about it from an RT lens, which we're going to, obviously. But, you know, there's a lot of things to think about in a first session. So we want to banter about that. And I'm going to just start the question. Lance, tell me about your first session. What are you doing?

So this is something that I've been really stoked to talk about. I love the first sessions. One of my favorite sessions of therapy where I'm getting to know people. I love to get to know people. I love to get to know their stories. And I like to kind of get a little, do a little visioning when it comes to that first session. So usually, you know, when we're doing our first session, we always want to lean in and get that, you know, make sure we get all of our, you know, P's and Q's noted, you know, the informed consent, all the, all those elements, confidentiality, all those things that are happening. And for me, I always like to kind of set the tone on what restoration therapy is like, you know. And I, I always tell people, you know, it's going to be interesting as you work— as we work together. Um, I'm going to be really direct with you. I'm not going to beat around the bush. I never developed a poker face. Um, so, um, you know, you'll see a weird look on my face, which means that I noticed something weird happen. Um, so I'm going to talk to you about it. Uh, so I, I generally like to kind of talk about Restoration Therapy, um, from the lens of like, hey, what we know is that you are normally good people. Um, it's just that when you're not, you're not a good person. Um, and you get real— you get yourself into a lot of trouble. You either hurt others or you destroy yourselves. So my goal of therapy is to help you to step into that person that you're really called to be. And I always like to try and say, so who's that person going to be? You know, who are you trying to be? Like, what's that goal for you? Uh, this is where I'm, I'm leaning in. I'm, I'm trying to lean against, uh, the, um, co-regulation. You know, a lot of times your couples will come in the room and they'll say, oh, I just want my husband to quit being a mm-hmm, or my wife's such a You know, um, and what I like to say is, okay, that's great, I can't change them, but I know that you can help change you. So what's the, what's the future, um, you know, blank look like? Yeah. What do you like to do in your, like, when you're, when you're leaning in on your first session?

Dude, that's interesting because I don't— and you got me thinking here— I don't usually do I don't really mention necessarily walking through RT or say, here's Restoration Therapy and here's what it looks like specifically, like, like, um, in a real concrete way. But I like that. I like the idea maybe, and that's something I'm trying to grow and is maybe coming in that direction. But in a first session, I usually say several things, you know. One is, one is This is an opportunity for me to get to know you and you to get to know me.

Yeah.

And to discern if this is a good fit. And I say, you should know in the first session or two for sure if this is a good fit for us to work together. And so I mentioned that outright. I say, you know, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions and kind of want to hear a little bit of your story. Not a little bit, but I want to hear your story.

Yeah.

And, um, I— the way that RT comes in, I don't— again, I don't say it explicitly there, but within that first session, I will— on this whiteboard behind me, I will probably have some semblance of their pain cycle mapped out.

Oh, nice.

Just— I find that when they see that in the first session, they feel like really understood and hopeful. Oh, this person gets it. And I'm clear to say, hey, I just met you. I'm not saying this is the final— yeah, or the perfect accurate. But what I hear you is you're telling your story is that this feeling comes up a lot that you're saying this thing or this behavior. And I say one of the things about therapy is that I find empowering out of the model I work of is giving language to identify these old patterns that we get stuck in and to practice putting on new patterns. And so I do, I do mention that the old— the pain cycle, the peace cycle, the old self, the new self. And then when they leave, and we can back up, I'm kind of going fast here, but—

It's all good.

When they leave, I like to give homework right away.

Yeah.

So I will either hand this to them, a journal with a printout of the pain cycle in it.

Oh, cool.

That I just want them to take. I have some questions that I prompt them with to kind of just simply notice this week what's coming up for them and to identify some stuff. Or I might, I might follow up via email sometimes. And just, and I find that a lot of clients appreciate that they just don't walk out. And I think a lot of therapy people leave and they're like, okay, what am I supposed to do next? You know? And so, yeah, I feel like here's what I want you to do. The other thing, then I'll pause, is I, you know, you were probably trained this way. I was trained this way. To do like a really good intake, man. You sat there the first 3 sessions just doing like family of origin stuff, like, you know, my 6 hours on your mom or something like that, you know, just— yeah. And I, for me, have found if I start with the pain cycle, that's my entry point into family of origin conversation. I don't start with just tell me all your story. It's like once I hear the pattern, that leads for me to, I think, really empowering stories for people. And it makes them feel like we're actually moving forward. We're not just stuck digging up the past. So I don't know, that's, that's where I've been kind of playing around with. But I like that.

I like that. I think there's— I think it's really funny because I think people come into therapy Do you, do you notice this where they're— they'll be like, there, there's like this high level of shame attached to like them being there. And, um, you know, they're like, yeah, like, I can't believe I'm like this. Um, and I, and I think they have these preconceived notions on like, and now you're gonna blame everything on my mom and dad, you know. Which, you know, we will blame their parents a little bit. Um, but, uh, you know, I think there's, there's this element of like, no, like, when we're coming into therapy, we really want to help you, um, feel empowered to change the way you're being. Um, and I do like to highlight that, that idea of like, when we do therapy, this is— I'm, I'm all about empowering you to be better.

Um, I do like— I like that you say that.

Yeah, I also like to warn people about— I feel like with restoration therapy, you have to warn people.

What's the warning?

I had to warn people that I'm going to interrupt you a lot, and you're gonna get— you might get a little frustrated with me trying to tell your story, but for me, some of the important things is what's going on underneath the surface. So as we work together you'll notice that I'm going to stop you probably every 3 to 5 minutes as you're telling a story, because I really do want to hear about, you know, the bad thing that happened. But I also need to understand the working model that's going on inside of your heart when, when you get, you know, all like jagged up. So I like to tell people that I'm going to stop them a lot and ask questions. I also will tell them I'm going to ask you to do a lot of Um, you know, you're probably gonna have to stand up in the room with me. There might be a few moments where, like, it might feel awkward, um, uh, as we do stuff together. And, um, just know that as we do these types of things, um, you're welcome to say you don't want to do them, uh, but we're also trying to unlock some deeper things inside of you.

Dude, I like that. And I think like that lowers even some anxiety for me just to be— to say it, to name it out loud, even as a therapist for me ahead of time, you know, because I can get stuck in my own anxiety in the room of not doing some things that I think I should be doing. But I think to name them out loud and to collaborate and to invite them into the process, I think would be really helpful. Yeah, I think that'd be an area for me to grow in. I think I went from really strict intakes, you know, in your first few years as a therapist where you have to follow all the guidelines. Here's all the questions.

Yes.

Till I got pretty loosey-goosey because I always wanted people to feel like I was present and engaged.

Yeah.

So that, that means a lot of times I don't even take any notes. Like I don't have a notepad in front of me. Like right now my memory is actually really good. Knock on wood. So after each session, I take all the notes. Of everything that I heard. And that's how I track. Um, because I've had some therapists where I'm like, what, why are they spending so much time writing down when I'm having a conversation with them? But then I've seen Terry with the notepad scribbling away, and then he pulls it up and he looks at something and he says something that you said, and you're like, oh man. So all that's all to say, like, I'm still trying to figure out, I think, the best way for me to do an intake. I know that one of my goals though is to Um, I don't know, to say— not to say, but to— I want them to, to experience love and trust in the room as a therapist, you know?

Yeah, I, I, I actually do keep a— I have what I call a cheat sheet.

Okay.

I developed this when I was doing, um, um, uh, when I was doing intensives because it was so hard for me to keep track of all the characters. And when you're doing intensive work like if you're just like writing like quotes from them the whole time, there's like no organization. So I decided, um, after like sitting in a few intensives, like I'm gonna start doing my— having a cheat sheet for my like primary note. Um, and on my cheat sheet, what I normally do is I use one of these yellow sheets of paper.

Yeah.

And on the yellow sheet of paper, what I normally do is like on the top corner here, I put all of their goals, right? Um, so I'll have like their desires for like what they're looking for and how they're— how they want to get better. Then I use the middle part here. Um, what I put here is I always put the genogram. I love— I'm a genogram—

like, I do love a genogram.

Like, having a good genogram and, um, like the different players. So then when we're in the middle of session, I will like name their parents by first name, or, or their sister, or whatever, or their uncles, you know, their uncle's ex-girlfriend that did yada yada yada. So I'll say the name, which I feel like when— because I can usually remember story, but I'm not good with remembering names. Um, so I love to be able to have a full genogram. Uh, on my genograms, I usually note like, um, relationship type things. So like, I'll have like, you know, the mother-father element here, you know, and steps or whatever. Um, and then I'll put like 3 words or phrases for each person so I can remember like that type of character, um, for that person. Um, and then I'll— and, and the Then I'll draw the lines of like close to line or the, the jagged line, um, for how they're connected. So I'll use the genogram here, and then I'll put over here, I'll put like if it's like a really good story that I know I want to reference later on for I'm doing peace cycle work, um, I'll put it right here and I'll put like, you know, um, you know, uh, stuck on mountain story, you know, um, uh, so, so I know I'm going to come back to that story at some point. And then I'll put their top 3 things or difficult things through their childhood and top 3, um, most, um, things that they're most proud of from their childhood. Um, because I like to have some good references when I'm doing, um, P-cycle work with my clients of like, here's an actual legitimate time period where they got better. Then on the bottom here of mine—

for people who are listening, if you go to the video, you can see Lance looking at his blank yellow legal pad note paper that's turned sideways, and he kind of shows where he's diagramming and writing these things down.

Yeah, and then the great thing is what I'll do, and this is kind of like, as they're talking, I'll be like on this half, if it's a couple, on the first, on the first half underneath this red line, I'll put, um, their feels, copes, um, truth,, and new action. So I'm gonna— I'm, I'm monitoring that our whole first session. Um, this is kind of like my cheat sheet that I'll have on hand.

So in a first session, you'll have a good understanding of some of the pain cycle stuff. You have key figures, characters, you'll have like a working genogram maybe that you have kind of been sketching out.

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, we'll see how far we're going to get, but this is like a, a cheat sheet that like kind of ends up being my big reference. Throughout the time that we're working together. So I, I'll know where I am in the therapeutic process just by looking at my cheat sheet of like, oh, I don't really have too many P— I don't have too many word pain words connected to safety or identity on here. So I'm always referencing that. And what I'll do usually, I either in the first session, if it's a couple, I'll do exactly what you said where I'll just say, hey, tell me about when you guys get into a fight. Or, or tell me about the last good fight that you had, um, and let's— let me try and start to understand what happens inside of you, um, when you're struggling. Um, yeah, yeah, to their histories.

Yeah, because I, you know, I remember at a time when I started doing a little more executive coaching, and a friend of mine who was pretty influential for me in that he was a marriage therapist, worked at the Hideaway Intensive, great therapist, but started doing more coaching. And he was like, you know, and you've kind of said this in another podcast before, where the way that we traditionally have done therapy hasn't worked for a lot of people, you know.

Yeah.

And my friend was saying, you know, we can bring people in and they're in a lot of pain, and we'll spend all this time just digging up, trying to get their story and all this past, and they're not feeling like we're moving in a direction. Yeah. And so I've always tried to figure out how do I get enough in that first session to understand some stuff, but to also communicate some hope to the client that they can actually see some difference for themselves. Like, they can imagine what change will look like. And that's a question I ask a lot of times in therapy, which is, um, I guess that goes back to the magic question in solution-focused, which is essentially Yeah, you know, hey, a few— even a few weeks from now, 2 to 3 weeks, what would be the first sign of change for you? What would you have to see to give you a sense of hope that things are changing, moving in the right direction? And when people like name that, you know, I, I think it's really helpful for them. And when I can kind of— even when they can name that, even in relation to some of the pain cycle we've even started to map out in that first session, I they're like, oh, okay, here's what I gotta work on.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. Uh, yeah, I'll do the, um, the, uh, you from, um, you know, 20 sessions from now is walking in the door and they have done the work. They made it through. They had to talk about the thing that they didn't want to talk about. They had to deal, you know, with that big mountain in front of them. But they persevered and they made it through. When that you walks in the door who has been through it all, what are the things that you hope that they would be able to say to you? And they're not going to give you the lottery numbers, right? Because they know you blow it. Um, I always have like some— I always, I always warn my clients I tell the dumbest jokes. But, um, and like, what do you hope that they would say to you, you know? About what's different. And that, that answer is something that I'm always like leaning towards, that future person of who they're trying to become.

So do you— do— I'm sure people will ask sometimes, do you— can you tell, or do you have a sense of like that you want to communicate to a client or a couple in the first session? Like, here's what I think, how many sessions you might need or probably will need just to kind of get them wrapped around what that work looks like. And what do you say typically Yeah, it's—

I usually will tell my clients that if you're working with me, the first 3 to 4 sessions, we're kind of figuring it out, right? Um, so it might be, you know, I, I want to make sure that the work I give you, um, you know, uh, the homework and, and all these things, like the first 3 to 4 sessions mainly about me, right, where I'm putting things together. Uh, once, once I have a really good feel on where things are then I'm going to start pushing you forward. And generally, you know, if you really engage in the work and you're trying to get better, uh, generally this takes about 12 to 20 sessions. Um, you know, that's, that's the typical flow when I look at like all my data for the clients I've seen over the years. It's usually 12 to 20 sessions. Um, yeah, so that, that's, that's where I'll kind of throw it out with them and I'll say, you know, And the things that make it go longer are if you have secrets and you're not being real with me about things. Um, uh, you know, don't waste your money coming in to see me, um, while having an affair. You know, don't waste your money while coming to see me while being addicted to drugs. You know, like, yeah, like, I, I know you had that thing that you swore that you would never tell anybody, but this is the, this is the one place where it is sacred. Nothing leaves these doors unless there is some, like, safety concern. So I want to tell you, this is the place where you can finally be real.

Um, so like 3 and a half months to 4 months of, like, weekly sessions, if we're doing weekly, of, like, work, if they're committed to the work. Yeah, which in the grand scheme, that's, that's pretty good, some good progress pretty quickly. You know, when you think about, hey man, if I, if it's January and I can make, I can be in a significantly different place by the end of March or the end of April, that's pretty powerful.

Yeah. And I'll tell them, I was like, by that time you will have the tool that will change your life.

Yeah.

It is the tool. Like, there's like, when we look at everything that we do in Restoration Therapy, you will have that tool, um, in 12 to 20 sessions, which is the 4 steps, obviously.

Do you think, because you train Level 1 and 2—

yeah, I'm, I'm the rare, the rare one—

is there, is there a right way to do an intake from an RT perspective, or is there a lot of freedom in how we do an intake? And is there like a couple of specific things that we have to do, but there's a lot of freedom around it.

I think, I think I really want to differentiate what we do in Restoration Therapy, um, with my intake.

Like, make it clear this is what's different. Okay.

Yeah, like, I think that's— that always throws people for a loop, huh? Um, when, when you start saying like, hey, I, I really care about your feelings and what's going on, but I also care more about how you can have power over your feelings. So we're gonna do a little bit of diving into the pain from your past, um, and, and how it affects you today. Um, but I, I really want to encourage my— that first session where my clients are going to know that I'm going to be asking them to, um, have courage and to be strong. Um, I think that's one of the big things with RT that, you know, like other therapy models, it's like they're just gonna, you know, hold you tight or whatever, like, um, you know, um, or very Rogerian and just hear you out and all these different things. Like, RT is going to really push you to be better, um, which I think is— I think that's a lot different than a lot of therapies that are out there.

Well, that's convicting. I think, like, I No, I'm gonna try that. I think, again, I think people, they go to my website or they talk to me. I mean, I talk about Restoration Therapy all the time, and we talk about the pain and peace cycle. We do the work. But like, I like the idea of being more explicit in that first session of, here's what differentiates it, here's what it's going to be asking you to do, here's what it's going to be asking me to do as a therapist. You know, like, I'm going to interrupt more, I'm going to intervene more, I'm going to ask you to get up and do some things. Yeah, I'm gonna ask you as a client to not just sit in the pain but actually empower yourself to take steps to get out of the pain. Yeah, um, I like that. I think that would also lower some anxiety because I'm pretty clear about the pathway too. We're both pretty clear. Yeah, see, this is why I talk to you, because I think people— how many sessions do I need with you? You can get me— can you get me out in 12?

Dude, let's do it. But I'll tell them, like, you know, a lot of people think therapy is coming in and, um, like, I finally have someone to tell about my horrible week to, which, yes, it is that, but we're not gonna hang out there. We're gonna learn on how you can be a better person. Uh, and yeah, I think— yeah, how do you like to talk about integration in your first session? Like, if a client—

oh, that's interesting, because I was just answering an email before you and I hopped on. Somebody asked me if I was a Christian therapist, essentially. So I was thinking about that language, you know. And I, I, um, I don't know. I mean, if a client's in my office, I just usually say, you know, I feel like I've been trained in some of the best psychological models and the best, best, like, theology and been to seminary. And I was always trained to integrate faith and theological components where it's helpful to the client, you know. And, um, I don't think there is a specific roadmap to do that, honestly. I think it comes with practice, that you, you are a native in both theology and/or faith, in the practice of your faith, and a native in the sense of like your, um, psychological models. Does it make sense when it's like speaking— it's like being able to speak two, two different languages and like knowing how to, how to integrate and flow, uh, between those two in any conversation. And I feel like any therapist can do that, but I think it just comes to practice, like familiarizing yourself with the faith stuff, whether it's your own journey or reading some things and practicing some things. And the same with the therapy, um, psychology stuff. So I don't know, I just say— I also said to someone earlier, I feel like RT is the most integratable model there is. And, you know, language like the old self, new self and stuff. And so I'm going to be looking for opportunity to do that. Um, but I don't know if I have like an, you know, an elevator pitch type, like it's like really concise. I think it's more it comes up in conversation with people.

Yeah. Yeah.

And they just, I think they say, oh, he's a former pastor. He used to work in a church, went to seminary. Like this is just part of who he is. And so it just, it like, it just comes really natural to me and like, I love it. Yeah, like everything I see is through these lenses. I can't unsee it, right?

It's kind of this, you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, like we recognize there is a bent, um, um, and, and it's, it's trying to be able to— yeah, I think that's a good— you say something about it?

What do you say?

What I'll tell them, I'll say, hey, you know, one of the big things about— I'll kind of do a quick like background on me, um, and like if it's like a, you know, I'll say, hey, just so you know, um, I went to Fuller Seminary for my Master's of Divinity, and I'm an ordained pastor. I'm also married to a pastor, um, uh, so I, I always like to throw out that part in the beginning, um, that, um, my little woman empowerment moment, um, but I'll lean in and I'll say, you know, and here's the deal with me and therapy is, um, when we work together, I want to tell you that I'm praying for you guys. Um, I actually have markers all over Carlsbad and San Diego that remind me to pray for each of my clients. There will be a place where I mark to remember to pray for, um, you know, George, you know, and I'll be praying for you every time I see that spot. Um, and, um, but when it comes to therapy, uh, you know, we can make it as much or a little as you like. Um, the, the talking about, um, you know, theological things— here's the deal: I'm not going to be your pastor. I'm going to be your therapist. Um, and, um, so that means I'm not going to be the ref telling you what's right, what's wrong, um, and, and in that realm. But I will help you lean in and step into the whole person that, you know, God's calling you to be, if that's what you would like, you know. So I like to try and kind of allow them to know like that it's there. I always point— I like have a Bible in my office, and so I'll point like, yeah, like, so we can talk about scripture if that's important to you. And yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I've actually had a lot of clients over the years. I had some people I'm thinking about recently who didn't want to come see me because they knew I was a Christian and they saw my background. Yeah, but they ended up coming, and I think it's because— and this goes back to RT— um, they felt loved and safe in the room, and I wasn't trying to like proselytize them. Yes, you know, and I was just being, you know, hopefully, hopefully a good restoration therapist. Understanding your pain and peace cycle. And I think that, yeah, it just— a lot of people will come see me and they have no interest in that. Yeah. Or they're kind of curious, but that's not what the angle they want to work from, you know. And I do differentiate. I would do say, like, I don't refer to myself as a Christian therapist. It's not on my language, on my website or anything. But if you read enough of my bio, you'll know like my background. And I don't consider myself— I am not a— I'm not a New Thetic therapist where it's like all we look at is the Bible. That's it. There's no other, you know, it's just— that's it. Here's, here's the answer in terms of— yeah, you know, that's a whole different background of training and belief and, and, um not, not believing any psychological tools, probably from that background perspective. So sometimes I find myself having to differentiate how I'm, how I'm different from what people's expectations are. Yeah, what they think a Christian therapist is, because there's a lot of— yeah, I'm just gonna leave it at that. I have to kind of differentiate that.

I think that's good. I think that, I think that's wise. And I also like the idea—

I used to say that all the time with my first session.

I would say Hey, as we're working together, like, I am— I am— I do have a faith background, and we can make that as much or a little as the work that we do, but I'm not trying to like proselytize you or do anything in that realm. So if you ever feel like something like that's going on, just know that's not my intent, is to try and push that anything upon you, um, outside of you becoming, um, the better person that you're— that you need to be. Like, that's, that's going to be the thing I'm really going to push, but um, we can kind of work together. But please, like, um, let me know. One of my favorite lines in my first session— I think I stole it from Terry— is, is I'll, I'll say, hey, and by the way, I, I will— I, since I never developed a poker face, like, um, I will venture in and I'm, I'm gonna probably, um, uh ask you a few questions and things like this. And here's the thing with me is I know that I am right 85% of the time, and I don't know why, but my clients really love that. Like where there's like this element of, you know, just because I venture out and I'm pushing something or trying something with you means that I might be wrong, and I'm happy to be wrong. And I always make this joke about my dad being a rocket scientist at NASA.

Yeah.

And I'd be like, yeah, so, you know, my dad worked at NASA, you know, and like he had to be right 100% of the time.

People's life depended on it.

Yeah. He used to say, you know, one ah shit kills a thousand attaboys, you know. Um, uh, but for me, if I get something wrong, I'm probably going to hurt your feelings a little bit, which I hate. But I think that's— we can recover from that. So, um, if I ever make a mistake, please let me know. I, I really would like to support you in the healing process. So that's, that's the other big piece I like to kind of throw out there in my first session.

Okay, so what's, what's your main takeaway from this little conversation? People will have their own takeaways. What are you walking away with?

Well, number one, I kind of, I'm wondering for myself, like, hearing you out Uh, Rhett, like, I, I'm, I'm wondering about maybe trying to put the pain and peace cycle— like, there's at least the pain cycle— out, like, a little bit more aggressively. I remember you talked about that in your first session. I usually wait till, like, it's like I like to do the big reveal pain cycle, you know, where it's like, aha, you've said this and I hear this, and, you know, um, but I might try and experiment this next, um, few months with my new clients and see, um, putting that pain cycle up right off the bat and just say, hey, so I've seen this and that's what happens for you.

Yeah, I mean, it's just on— in the first session, it's probably just on a board, on a whiteboard. And even getting up out of my chair and diagramming stuff is more than a lot of clients have seen therapists do, you know?

Yeah, they're like, wait, you don't just sit there?

Yeah, it's not— I don't put up on these big white sticky notes on my door till like later on, typically. Okay, and start like mapping it out a little more, you know. So that, yeah, let me know what you think. I think what I'm taking away is I want to— I'm going to practice more being explicit in that first session about like, what is RT essentially, and how is it different. And, and because of that, here's some things I'm going to ask you to do as a client, and I'm going to ask myself to do as a therapist. And, and just, just make that clear. So I think we like, and we end up, we're like moving to this collaborative understanding with each other.

Yeah.

And I think that would help me actually as a therapist, empower me to do some things because I've made it clear from the beginning. I'm not jumping into it later.

Yeah.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that. That's what I'm gonna do.

Nice. Yeah, I feel challenged today.

Speaking of that, Lance, I'm gonna have to go in a minute because, you know, I gotta hop into a session. What about you?

Yeah, I gotta take my daughter to school and then get into session too.

So I taught her to school at 10 o'clock. It's like a summer school.

It's summer, it's summertime, so it's like— I guess it's not school, it's like day school. I don't even know what they call it. And it's summer program, that's what it is, like those camps.

So Yeah, and if people are listening, give some feedback on this. We kind of want— we, we want to unpack some more stuff about the therapeutic process. So we want to start with the first session today and kind of just talk it through. And I think I have some questions for Lance later on about, I think, mapping out the Pain and Peace cycle and getting that up and some timing on that. So, um, yeah, we'll see. We'll see how that goes. But if you— if there's people that listen to things too and they'd like us to talk about something specific, or you want to come on and talk about it specifically, let us know.

Sweet. So thank you, Rhett. I feel challenged. You're a good man. All right.

Hey, I feel challenged too, and we're challenging all of you to go sign up for the summit.

Boom. See you, man. Cheers.