The Christmas Trip that Built BlaBlaCar - Interview with Frédéric Mazzella, founder of BlaBlaCar

Hello, Frederic, and welcome to the EU Startups Podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here, and thank you for letting me call you Fred, which is definitely easier for my American tongue. Hello, very nice to meet you, David. Yes, yes, I'm very excited for this conversation. I myself am an avid BlaBlaCar user. I definitely was in college when I had about €5 to my name and I needed to get around. So I'm a fan of the service and I'm particularly excited to have this chat with you. And you, of course, are no stranger to us at EU Startups. I know you've had involvement with our summit in the past. So we're always keeping an eye on BlaBlaCar. So it's a pleasure to have you. And before we get started on the questions, I think it's always easiest to just allow the guests to present themselves. and give us a little rundown on who they are and what their company is.

Okay, so my name is Fred, as you said. I'm an entrepreneur. I build companies which I hope are useful for us, for us all. So you've named BlaBlaCar, of course, which is a big success I've built a few years ago. I'm also building another project today, which is called The Dyft, for a donation as a gift, where we send the money to NGOs, organizations, with the help of companies. And as for Blablacar, I guess we'll be focusing quite a lot on questions you have on this wonderful project. So I'll be brief for now and waiting for your questions.

Great. Yes. Well, I didn't know about this, Stéphane. Please do talk about it. You know, the idea here is to kind of get an insight into the entrepreneur and his journey and his challenges. So, you know, always feel free, even though, as you've said, my questions are mostly aimed at Blablacar, but if you can find any point to talk about that, I more than welcome you. So, uh, with that in mind, I think the best place to start these conversations is always at the beginning. Uh, and, uh, I've read over and over again this story of yours of how BlaBlaCar began, about this, uh, trip with your sister. So, you know, and, and feel free to tell us the story again, because I, I do think it's kind of an interesting one and kind of highlights really what— where the idea comes from. But I, I'm kind of curious about When you began BlaBlaCar, what kind of, I mean, what was the initial focus of it? Was it about making travel easier? Was it about not wasting enough resources, saving money? Even sustainability questions are obviously in the mix here. What was the goal to begin with?

Well, I think the first thing was a personal need. I mean, I just wanted to get home for Christmas and I hit the wall of everything is full, like all the trains were full. I could not get any available seats. And then when I finally took a car with my little sister who had a car and then she brought me home, on the highway, I saw a train going faster than us. And then I said to my little sister, well, this train is full. There is no seat available in it. I know it because I've been looking for seats. Mm-hmm. And then at the same time, I saw all the empty cars, like dozens, hundreds, thousands of empty cars with sometimes only the driver on board. And so I saw, okay, there were a lot of possibilities and available seats to go to my home place, but they were not in the trains anymore. They were in the cars. And so we need to make sure that we are able to search for available seats in cars. And so what's, what was the real starting point, I think, is to see the opportunity, to see the absurdity of waste. Like, it was not a grand theory at first. I think it's more like physics obviousness. It's unused capacity everywhere and energy being lost. I think that's the main thing I saw, the opportunity of matching people going the same way, sharing costs, just because the seats were available and I saw them physically. Um, but then after, of course, it translates into something you can scale because it does not happen only in France, but it happens like everywhere. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's part of the, uh, the, uh, entrepreneurial, uh, journey.

Hmm. But there has to be a social, I mean, at least afterwards, a social angle developed in it too. Because if I can think of one of my most like, Uh, important, uh, experiences with BlaBlaCar. It's a trip I took from Salamanca to Valencia in Spain, which, if you know anything about where those 2 cities are located, it's on opposite ends of the country. Uh, and, and I magically found a person who was making that exact same trajectory. Uh, and, you know, I, I sat down, it was about 8 hours of a car ride. And, uh, I realized that she hadn't done it for the gas money. He'd done it just so he'd have somebody to talk to for 8 hours because he thought, I'm going to be so bored sitting in a vehicle for 8 hours, I might as well meet somebody.

Yeah, it's a big motivation for everyone as a driver to actually take passengers in their car just to not be alone and spend a good time, discover new people. Obviously, it's very, very social. It's— so you mentioned it. I think BlaBlaCar has— you can discover it because you think it's A more affordable way to travel. It's cheaper than most, if not all the other options. But what strikes is that you actually get to meet new people. That's why it's called BlaBlaCar. I don't know if you know why we're called BlaBlaCar. Do you?

No, no, I didn't know.

You don't? It's because when you register on the service, you choose how much you talk in the car. You choose if you are blah, blah, blah, or blah, blah, blah. It says how much To be chatting during the call, during the ride. So, um, uh, well, I, I'm registered as blah blah on the service, but I've been told I should register as blah blah blah anyway. Um, because I—

How many, how many trips have you taken yourself on BlaBlaCar?

I know, hundreds. But, um, yeah, it's a lot. And especially in the beginning to like really proof test the service, proof test the concept, improve the features that we were, we needed. But then, as you mentioned, there are 2 sides after you realize, okay, it's a cheap option to travel. It saves a lot of money for drivers. It's cheaper for passengers. Then you enter into this, this wonderful add-ons of the service is that you meet people. So that's a social angle. You discover people. Yeah. And it's also a lot more environmentally friendly because of course you divide the CO2 emissions per the number of passengers in the car. So we've made the calculations that BlaBlaCar alone saves more than 2.5 million tons of CO2 a year when we compare a world without BlaBlaCar and a world with BlaBlaCar. So it's really significant. 2.5 million tons of CO2 per year is Twice the amount of the CO2 emissions of a big city like Paris for the road traffic. So every year we offset 2 times what a city like the city of Paris creates in terms of CO2 emissions on road traffic. So it's quite significant and it's thanks to the big network we have today. It's 100 million people who who use BlaBlaCar on the planet today, from Brazil to India, which are our 2 biggest countries. So there are 3 advantages in this whole thing. Not only it's a cheaper option, but it's also social and social environmental. So it has all the benefits you could ever think of, which has, I think, made a big part of the success because there is no reason to not use it.

I've also come across these data that you're pointing to, and of course they're very interesting. And then there's also a topic that you've spread beyond just carpooling, that there's buses, there's train offerings now.

Yeah.

And I have to wonder, is the environmental impact also being transferred when you are involving buses and train offerings, or is that something that only really stays within carpooling? Because of its shared nature?

No, it's transferable. I mean, for the other means of common transportation, so like buses or trains, it's already embedded in the model that it's better for the environment and for the energy savings to actually have A lot of people traveling together in the same vehicle. That's the main thing, the main topic that common transport has solved and the main raison d'être, if you wish, for this to have developed because it's a way for people to share the cost of the energy which is needed to move people around. And so by saving the cost on energy, you also save on the environmental impacts. But the goal then, is to make sure that your fill-up rate is correct, is good, because if you have big vehicles traveling empty, then that's a total waste. And we can see that, we can project that, that it's not what should be done. So our goal when we enter into any kind of ground transport like this, whether it's buses or trains, is to make sure we improve the fill-up rate of all those vehicles and make sure that They never travel empty or with empty seats. We do our best to bring as many people in this shared capacity that is made available to the network of the people who travel with us. So it's the same logic that we apply to these common transport solutions as we apply in Carpool.

And is there any, because so we, you've covered carpooling, buses, trains, the obvious last mode of transport is airplanes. Is there any kind of, is that a different ballpark altogether? Is there any kind of plan moving forward to kind of address that?

No, I think it's, it's really a different play. So never say never, but for now, it's not something we focus on. For now, what we think is like, if you want to fly, then you know how, where to find, where to find your, your flights. And then there are a lot of flight comparators around there, a lot of OTAs in that space who do the real job that is needed for this activity. But then if you think about ground transport, you should think about BlaBlaCar. And on BlaBlaCar, you'll find carpool, buses, and trains. So anything that can bring you underground is discoverable on BlaBlaCar. But we don't enter in the flight space for now.

Carpooling, it feels so natural in Europe, and hitchhiking even feels so natural here. And me having been raised in the States and spent a lot of time there, you know, hitchhiking is less and less common, and ridesharing Carpooling is even less so, it feels. Do you think that ridesharing has a true global appeal, or does it just kind of work in some settings? If we're talking about the US, it's like everybody has a car. Everyone's forced to have a car depending on just where you live and how cities are structured. So do you feel like there's a true global application for what BlaBlaCar offers?

Yeah, well, I think it's a globally appealing concept because empty seats are available. It's universal, it's available everywhere, but the adoption curve is really local. It's like a seed, if you wish, that grows only if the soil, which means like the habits, the trust of the alternative, is right. And the real driver isn't really car ownership, it's more pain. By pain, I mean high prices, long distances, limited public transport, congestion, parking hassle. And when pain is strong, then people try new behaviors faster. Then you have the culture, which matters a lot through trust and social norms. I mean, in some places, sharing with strangers is natural. In others, you need stronger reactions like profiles, ratings, verifications before it feels safe. So it's a combination of all this and the economics, of course. matter too, because where buses and trains are cheap and great, then ridesharing must win on flexibility and community, for the community. So where alternatives are poor or expensive, ridesharing wins on price and availability. So you have different angles to look at it. So, well, to me, I would say coupling can work almost everywhere. You just need roads and smartphones and then you have a— and cars, and then you have an app for carpooling with BlaBlaCar. But it's not exactly the same recipe everywhere. You need to localize the trust system and the value proposition. And so you were talking about the US. One of the reasons we think today that US is not adopting carpooling, there's no like solution for carpooling in the US. And we are not in the US at all. And then there's no actor which does what we do. It's also because the price of gas and the convenience of moving around is not— well, the price of gas and the price of everything around cars is a lot cheaper than it is in most countries where we operate, especially when compared to the GDP per inhabitant. So the pain that the drivers feel when they go at the pump or when they have trouble with their car is a lot lower, which is not an incentive for drivers to propose their seats for sharing.

Yeah.

So we believe that's a real driver when it comes to having drivers proposing their seats to passengers. That if they don't pay much, if they don't feel the pain of paying a lot when they move around with their cars, that they don't feel the need for sharing the cost as well.

I imagine though that may be changing, and I'm not getting political here, but with obvious current economic and political happenings, the price of gas is shooting up. And I imagine that more and more people are considering, and even in the US, Uh, to kind of, uh, see these kind of things adopted. Is there, is there any plans to go to the US or do you just—

No, there's no plans to go to the US right now. Uh, and you know, the events you're talking about are still very recent and they, they don't create like a massive trend, which would, uh, uh, which would go, which would spread over several years, at least for now. So, uh, because we're, we're talking about real, um, equilibrium, I mean, economic equilibriums here. We don't know what will happen within months or years. So we'll see, but for now, it's very early to say anything on whether or not this could, like the fact that the price of gas is going up, could trigger a new interest for carpooling in the US or not.

Okay. Well, and speaking about the US and Europe, there is something I wanted to touch on and just going backwards here, if you don't mind for a second, is at your beginning. I had to look over your CV and your experience and You know, I saw that you were a scientific researcher at NASA. I had that in my notes, which that was interesting. And you've also spent time in Japan. So I want to hear a little bit about how those kind of early experiences helped you approach— helped how you approach building a startup in Europe and even being an entrepreneur.

Well, I think the more trials and more experience you have, the better it is. So I could, I hope, get the best of all the places I've been to. So whether it's in the US or Japan, I think the US possibly spirit gave me the permission to try it. It felt normal to prototype fast and talk to users early and iterate without shame. And really create your product in a way that you're not, you don't fear the failure because you know that failure is part of the path to success. So I think that really helps. And also it helps, it helped me in thinking that things have to go global if you want them to have some impact. So like, if it doesn't scale, it doesn't matter really. So you want to to go with scale. Then Japan, I think when I did some research there, it taught me more about also the rigor and the reliability and the respect for process, which is useful sometimes. And it's when you want to build something very, very powerful, stable. And so I think Both of those experiences helped me a lot. And then the French approach as well really, really helped because we like to look at problems from all angles in France. And so it's really helped me in finding the right solution for how to create this kind of product, this kind of service, which seemed very ambitious or crazy at the time when I launched it. So, Uh, it helped me like seeing all the facets of, uh, how to make it work and make it acceptable for everybody. So yeah, I think I'm just a mix of all this and, um, I'm happy, uh, we were able to develop that from France in Europe. Uh, and actually it was the right choice because as I, we just discussed, we see that this product does not exist in the US still today. So there may be some reasons. So maybe we exist there in the future, but for now, Europe was the very best place to start this kind of project.

Well, you know, BlaBlaCar has been in the game now since 2000, is it 2006 or 2008? I've seen conflicting numbers here. When was BlaBlaCar founded?

Well, I started coding in 2004. I incorporated the company In 2006, but then that's the reason why there are some confusion on the dates because I started coding, uh, because, you know, I, I had done a lot of coding when I was in, uh, especially in the US, uh, in California at Stanford when I studied, uh, computer science. Um, and so I started coding before incorporating the company and that's why there are several dates around here, but, uh, the incorporation date of the company is 2006. Okay.

2006. Okay, so you, you, you, BlaBlaCar has been around since 2006. So you've seen kind of how Europe's involved in the innovation startup sector. You've been right there at the forefront, whether it's difficulties in regulation, funding streams, all of that. And I'm, I'm curious to hear about through your experiences abroad, whether it's the US or Japan, how you see Europe kind of measuring up right now in the overall innovative worldwide approach?

Well, I think it's evolved a lot over the past decades, of course, because we've gone from some kind of fear of going for like developing innovation, especially in the tech space. I would say in the beginning of, well, in the years 2000, between 2010, To a willingness to really try. And that now we even see in the population, we know the statistics, but a lot of people want to create their own company now. And I think it's a good thing because it's a global spirit of people willing to build the future. I think it's always good for society to have as many people who are looking at at the future with ambition. So this spirit has changed a lot. We have structured some good businesses. We have now in Europe a few hundred unicorns. And so it's kind of scaling up. But what we're lacking is, you know, the big funds and the capital, um, because the capital is still coming from, uh, uh, big places like the US, for example. Uh, so, um, uh, the seed exists, but the growth rounds and the let's go to, let's go big globally, uh, reflexes are still more natural in the US than they are in, in Europe. And, uh, there are more funds to sustain this kind of strategy, uh, in the, in the US than you have in Europe. And, uh, then the other thing, so where we, Where we still lag behind is also the fact that we don't have a single market until now in Europe. We always say Europe is a big market, we have a big market, but we have 27 markets. It's still not really one market. So, you know, that's holding us a bit behind because What I say sometimes is starting a company in the US is like running a 100-meter race, but starting a company in Europe is like running a 110-meter hurdle race with all the hurdles being the 27 markets you have to enter, which are different. And so, I mean, the languages are different, of course, but then the payment systems, the legal frameworks, and many things are.

Yes.

So that's holding us a bit. I think AI can help, especially with languages, and then uniforming also the payments will help. But then on the legal frameworks, we have to work to make sure that companies don't have to recreate a new company every time they expand. Because otherwise, when you expand, you feel like you're rebuilding the same startup 10 times instead of just compounding.

So I imagine here you're referring to the EU Inc. 28th regime proposal. Yes. And you support it, right?

Yes, of course. Of course I'm supportive. I hope, I mean, we don't have all the details of what will be in the EU Inc. package for now. I've seen some good things, but what I really, really hope is that it will be attractive for entrepreneurs and for companies to move to that regime. I hope it will be a regime that is attractive and not just something that puts everything in one place, which is already good. It's already good if it puts like all the administrative burden in one place instead of spreading it in many, many countries. But it also has to be to be attractive so that even existing companies think about moving to that region because it would lower their cost, not only their cost in money of operating in several markets in Europe, but also their cost in time and in efficiency. So we'll be looking very carefully at what's inside the EU-IC package when it's really, really out.

Well, I would hope that they would confer with success stories just like yourselves and other companies, other founders that we've had on the podcast. I can't think of people that would know better what the challenge is and criteria that this needs to meet than all of you. So I would hope that eventually you kind of get to hear about it before all of us and kind of be able to give some feedback.

Yeah, yeah, there are discussions. I'm in the discussions, but still on the details, we don't have the final details of everything that will be released. So I'm still waiting for what will be coming out in a few weeks or months.

Okay. Yeah. Well, we at DeuceTurbos are, we're very attentive. It's, everyone's interested in the topic. Everyone wants to know more. At our summit, we have a whole panel on it. So it's kind of what's moving people right now. And that's good. You know, it's good that we're all so interested and we're all getting in on it. Uh, I also want to talk on your work, and I could see it on your laptop there, uh, France Digital, uh, which, uh, is— well, speaking of the summit, you're, you're media partners with us for this year's edition, so we're excited about that. So I want to talk a little bit about the work that France Télécom does, especially, you know, because we're talking here about European ability and everything. I know there's a heavy element of tech sovereignty. that France Digitale is focused on. So I kind of want to hear a little bit about your work there and how that ties into what you've done as an entrepreneur.

Well, France Digitale is an association. It's actually the biggest startup association in Europe, but it's an association which really is here to help the ecosystem as a whole and the startups individually to reach the scale-up and then the possibly the unicorn stage by not only helping with methods and making sure that entrepreneurs learn faster how to scale their businesses and their teams as well. So we put their teams in relation, but we also help them by placing them in contact with VCs or investors who can really help their business grow. And then the other thing we do a lot is synthesizing what we know is right and good for the ecosystem as a whole to create the next jobs and also the next services for Europe. And then we summarize all this into actionable things that can be activated by the regulator, by all these administrative people who are lying either, well, just in France or who are in Europe. And we bring them the ideas, the good ideas from the ecosystem that they should help implement with the lever they have with the regulation. And it's also part of us. It's been seen as a lobby, but it's an education lobby, I would say. It's not a lobby for maintaining interest because, you know, as you know, many of the startups we represent are in the losing money phase of their growth, usually because they raise money and they still lose money because they're investing in the future, they're investing in the services of the future, then they are also on the jobs of the future. Sure. But what we do is we have to educate. So we're not here to protect vested interests, we're here to protect future interests, to make sure that Europe counts as geography on the world map for technology because we, I mean, we described some of the aspects, but we are lagging behind on several issues. And so if we don't collect all the intelligence we can, and if we don't create the good conditions for our startups and scale-ups to create the technology of the future made in Europe, then it's going to be harder and harder for Europe to compete internationally.

If there's one thing that I've really loved about these conversations that I've had with the likes of yourself, you know, successful European entrepreneurs, is that you all seem to look backwards and to want to bring up and to kind of better the conditions, which I think is so great and speaks to kind of a continental unity that we all share on that sense, that it's not just for French, it's not just for Spanish, it's not just where they come from, but there's a real effort to push everybody up. And I want to ask, I mean, do you think France Digital is, is making good strides in that sense in terms of its impact on the ecosystem?

Yes, yes, frankly, we see that because we receive also the thank yous of the startups that we work with. And sometimes we really help them in making sure the regulator understands their issue. Sometimes, you know what, when you create a new project, a startup, you often are in a space which has not been well scoped. And you may look like you're infringing some laws when you're actually not. You're just extending the field, the playfield. You're extending where the future is going. And so often entrepreneurs and small startups don't have the possibility to reach out or to communicate efficiently with the people who are creating the Laos. And we are really here to help formalize this communication and make sure that they're heard because what we see is like 99% of the time, of course, all the new projects want to be good and better for the next phase of humanity. So We all want to build a better world, but sometimes it's not well interpreted because it's not well understood. And so we have to make sure that the goal of those startups is listened to and that we arrange things so that they are able to develop their new projects and new technology as well. So, and also on your other point, I think all founders in Europe also like to see the scale of Europe. We are lucky we have a space like this, which is big and can be unified and in some ways standardized, at least for the economic part. I'm not saying we should standardize culture because culture is really something which makes us a lot stronger and which makes us, I mean, the difference in cultures should be, of course, maintained and it's really a richness that we all benefit from. But on all the other aspects like economics, business, and practical issues, we should make sure if we have a common playing field, it will allow all our companies wherever they start from, whether it's in Poland, in Spain, in France, or in Italy or wherever, to really expand globally in Europe and be a lot stronger. And then it will bring new capacities for Europe, new revenues, and kind of a sovereignty as well, which is a topic which has been rising a lot lately because of the international events.

Okay. Well, to wrap up here, and I'll let you go, I wanted to just find final question as to, you know, going back to BlaBlaCar here, because it's of course the big— it's the crown jewel, at least, at least is the way we see it in this conversation. Uh, looking at BlaBlaCar, and it's been around, you know, you started working in 2004, we're now in 2026. It's, uh, it's hit a lot of major milestones. I was curious on where you kind of see it going forward. And with that question, I just wanted to give you a little bit of context because I had a quick look at our coverage this year into companies that are in adjacent areas as BlaBlaCar. Uh, you know, there's not such a direct competitor to it, but in adjacent areas. And we saw that in 2026, there was around €77 million in funding that have kind of gone to these kinds of adjacent areas, right? So with that in mind, how do you see BlaBlaCar in the landscape in which it operates on and where it will go? 5, 10 years from now.

Okay. Uh, before answering, can you tell me what, what are the adjacent, uh, activities that you've been looking at? Do you have any?

Uh, yeah, mobility and travel. Uh, it's kind of these, uh, you know, booking, uh, travel agencies and companies.

Okay. Um, well, a lot of things have been evolving in mobility and, uh, of course, uh, the, our relationship with mobility has evolved. From being owners of the solution that brings us around, like whether it be a car or even a bicycle, to really booking it directly on your smartphone. And so not being an owner, but really sharing the usage. This has changed in 10 years drastically. I mean, the young generation just don't really think about owning their own vehicle. They just want to— Yeah. have it on their phone, which means what they compare when they talk about mobility is the comfort and the speed and the ergonomics of the app that they use to move around. It's not even anymore the comfort or exactly the— The speed. the mean of the vehicle itself. So it's moved. And so in that space, of course, BlaBlaCar becomes a lot more easy to use year after year. So we improve the ergonomics, we make it so that it's possible to get your rides possibly until the last minute, and also to have the possibility to find drivers on your way. Uh, so directly they can stop and stop by, take you, and then drop you off somewhere else on their ride without having to do the full ride with them, of course. Uh, and also the, on the other part, we want to simplify the lives of, uh, the, all the, uh, travelers as well. Right. So that's why we are placing everything in one single app so that they don't need to be using several services. So we place carpooling, we place buses, and we place now the trains in the same app so that you find everything here. You can compare like the starting and ending points, the prices, of course, the comfort of, and the means of transport. And so you can really compare all your travel options in one single place. So which means we simplify the journey of the people looking for traveling. So this vision, we deploy it in several countries and in all the countries we are when we can. So we are combining the carpool with buses and with trains when possible. And so this is really the trajectory that we're taking to make lives of travelers easier.

Great. Well, thank you, Fred, for this great Blah, blah. It's, it's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast and to be able to chat to you about these things. And I hope to see you again soon. And yes, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you, David. Thank you.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.