Amp It! Using Gamification to Energize Your Incentive Program

Hello everyone, this is Carlos. Welcome to today's webinar, AMP-IT: Weaving Gamification into Your Incentive Program. And to learn exactly how we can do that, here is Tim.

Good morning everybody, good afternoon, how are you? Hey, thanks for joining, uh, and joining me is Husseni Rasiwala-Yali, who's the Vice President of Business Development with Tielo. Hello, Husseni.

Hey, Tim. Good to be here.

So everyone likes to talk a lot about gamification, but no one really seems to know exactly what it is or how to apply it. So we're going to address it. This webinar is all about gamification, what it is, examples of how our own lives are gamified, How to get more out of your channel partners by adding gamification elements to your incentive program. And some examples of how to apply it. So let's get started. Ask a dozen different people for the definition of gamification, and I'll wager— and I know wager is a game— but I'll wager that you'll get a dozen different answers. So even though the term gamification has only started to be used in the last 10 years or so, the principles behind gamification are based around behavioral conditioning concepts that really have been long proven to work. In fact, you see gamification being used on a daily basis and may not even notice it. But before we delve deeper into some real-world examples, Let's first define gamification for those of you that aren't familiar with the term. Here's one definition from the Merriam-Webster's dictionary: the process of adding games or game-like elements to something, such as a task, so as to encourage participation. Here's one from Gartner: the use of game mechanics and experience design to digitally engage and motivate people to achieve their goals. I actually like the Gartner definition a little bit better because it adds more weight to experience and the outcomes, right? But both definitions, and there are many more, are fairly general. In fact, they are using the term game to define gamification, which, if you remember from your English grammar classes in high school, was a no-no, right? But they're, they're still fairly vague and general, and because of that, some people would argue that incentive programs where partners get something for, you know, some behavior that you ask them to do, or customer loyalty programs where customers get something in the form of redeemable points for the repeated purchases are a form of gamification. But really, this assessment is too simple in that it doesn't really capture the essence of gamification. We'll suggest an alternative definition to the definitions above and be more specific in terms of incentive programs towards the, the end of the webinar. So let's turn to Wikipedia, right? And I I hate to counter Wikipedia because Wikipedia is, after all, the consensus of dozens or hundreds or even thousands of contributors, right, to what a thing is. But, you know, Wikipedia, you know, in Wikipedia, you'd look up gamification and it's gonna list that it has 7 elements: points, badges, leaderboards, performance graphs. Performance graphs are really your Analytics, if you will, performance analytics to tell you how you're doing in the game. Meaningful stories, avatars, and teammates. Now, I would say that some of these may be specific to electronic or digital games that you may perhaps play on your phone or your computer or your PlayStations or Xbox. But aren't necessarily— can be applied to gamification in general. For example, avatars. I'm not sure that avatars— while avatars might be very popular in phone games or Xbox games, I think the concept of avatars in terms of applying that to gamification in general may be a bit of a reach. Now, offer, uh, Fjello's 7 elements of gamification. A couple of them correspond to the Wikipedia list. So certainly, you know, leaderboards and teams, uh, we believe are elements, but also a number of other elements as well: challenges, missions, rules, competition, uh, and ranks. And we'll go into each of those in a moment, but before that, I want to get into something that's probably going to be rather controversial. And I would love to debate this with you either, you know, through our blog post or, you know, if you want to email me or, you know, just have a phone call. But I'm going to stipulate that rewards for behavior alone is not gamification, right? So that when you go back to the Wikipedia list, this first thing, points and badges in particular, it's a reward. They're rewards, right? But rewards for behavior alone is not gamification. And, and the reason I say that, and I know this is controversial, some people are going to disagree with me, but the reason I say that is because I can't think of a game, and I'm not talking about even, you know, formal games, but the types of real-world gamification scenarios that we play in every day, I don't know that anyone, any of those examples that, that has this rewards for behavior, right? If you do something, you know, I will give you something, right? And, and the— I think it's an incentive and it's a motivation, but it's not a gamified incentive. And we'll distinguish between incentives and gamified incentives as we go along. So with that, let me turn it over to Husseni to walk through these 7 elements of gamification, explain what each one means.

Awesome, Tim, thank you. So what about those game mechanics? Uh, let's unpack this a bit further, right, and break down these elements. So first, the challenges. So regardless of how gamification is defined, There are characteristics that every definition has in common, although not every gamification element needs to be included to gamify something. So let's talk through 7 critical elements that are built into most gamification scenarios. So here's the first one, challenges, and these are predefined multi-action goals that need to be accomplished in order to be rewarded or progress further. So related to challenges are missions. Consider these shorter-term quests that are milestones within a challenge. If I were to say that the challenge was to get to the top of Mount Everest, the missions would be to go to each base camp or milestone to acclimate to the journey on the top. So missions composed within a challenge. Next, we have rules. Generally, there are a set of boundaries or guidelines that will outline and establish what is considered success or failure. Next, competition. So generally, when two or more people or organizations are trying to achieve the same outcome, each of which are trying to do better than the others, Competition can be— also can be internal as well, maybe when someone is trying to beat their own personal best, so you're competing against yourself. More common examples would be the— in the form of coming in first place in a race, or with scoring the amount of points, the most amount of points, and so on. Okay? Next element is ranks, a progression of status that is generally based on experience or seniority. A good visualization for this would be the military ranks, right? Military ranks are earned based on various factors such as performance, completion of missions, and time served. Next is teams, working with one or more people to achieve the same goal or outcome. Leaderboards uses a visual representation of the position of an individual member or team as compared to others. And there we have the elements. So now that we've understood, you know, what is the breakdown of different elements of gamification, let's talk about gamification in the everyday. So, you know, as we've mentioned earlier, the mechanics behind gamification are based around behavioral conditioning, and we can really see these in our day-to-day life. Often without us even realizing it. To prove this point, let's illustrate some examples of this. Sports may be an obvious example of gamification because they're often thought of as games. A football game, a baseball game, a hockey game is an example. Whether you're talking about American football, soccer, hockey, or even downhill skiing, they each have some aspects of gamification built into them. So take challenges. The longer-term goal for any team is to win a tournament, a circuit, or a season, knocking out the other teams in the process. When we look at missions within sports, we see that a mission is considered each game played as a mission that needs to be completed or won in order to complete the challenge. The challenge being winning the tournament. And rules, depending on the sport, there are various rules, right, for advancing from a regular season play to postseason play, or the— like the playoffs. In basketball, it's the best regular season record, but in hockey, it's the greatest number of total points scored. And in NASCAR, it's even more involved and different. And I know, Tim, you're a fan of NASCAR. Why don't you explain NASCAR to us?

I'm actually a fan of the NASCAR point system, not NASCAR per se. But the, uh, you know, just like, so hockey, as Husseni mentioned, is, uh, you know, uses points, uh, as a basis of their, of the rules for advancing, right? So the number of goals and the number of points that you, you know, that you accumulate determines your standing in the, in the league or the conference. NASCAR uses a point system as well, and I like to talk about NASCAR, first of all, because I think their point system is fascinating, but secondly, because I think some of the concepts of the NASCAR point system can apply very well to channel incentive programs strategy.

Right?

So let me explain. Let's look at the NASCAR point system. So NASCAR, like a lot of other sports, has a regular season and a championship season. Right? And what happens in the regular season, there are 26 races. And each race, if you look at the lower left, for each race, you accumulate points depending on your place in the race determines on how many points you get in that race, right? So if you're the winner, you get 43 points. If you're in second place, you get 42. If you're in third place, 41, all the way down to last, last place. So 43 drivers in the race, uh, the winner gets 43. The driver that comes in last place gets 1 point. You look over to the right of that, maximum points per race, and yes, you get 43 points for being first place, but there are bonus points, right, that you can apply as well. So the race winner, uh, gets, uh, 3 points, uh, in addition. Uh, if you led any lap, you get a bonus point. And for that driver which led the most laps, that driver gets a bonus point as well. So the total maximum number is 48 points, but anybody can embellish or supplement their— the number of points they've earned in a particular race by leading laps or by, uh, having the most laps, uh, that they've led, right? So options to build upon the kind of the base rules model, if you will. Then what happens if you move above that? At the top, the top 10 in points after the 26th race move to the championship series, right? And that's critical because that's where, you know, the big bucks are, the most money, the biggest rewards. Now, there are also, uh, 2 wild cards that are also allowed in. So it's the top 10 plus 2 wild cards, and those 2 wild cards are the 2 drivers, you know, with the most wins, as long as they're in the top 20. So It's a great example of using many of the elements that Husseni Rasiwala-Yaliwala has described, right? It uses competition, it's using rules, it's using a time basis in terms of, you know, winning a race, and some of the other elements that we talked to as well. So it's complex, when you first meet the eye. Of course, NASCAR drivers get very used to this model, uh, this points model. And so once they get used to it, they know it, they know how to perform to it, right? So you can build these types of, of, of capabilities, gamification elements into your channel incentive program as long as you educate your channel partners about them and give them enough time to, uh, consume the model, they're actually going to respond quite well to it. Sorry about that. Back to you, Husseni Rasiwala-Yaliwala-Yali.

Thank you, Jim, for that explanation. So let's keep going, looking at the different gamification elements in terms of sports. So next is competition. Okay, and so it almost goes without saying that there's competition within sports, right? Generally speaking, the competition in sports is usually a team competing against other teams. Like you would see in football or soccer, and we'll get to teams in a moment, but as another gamification element in sports, this is what we see. Next is ranks. So, sports generally have third-party organizations that rank teams based on their standing amongst other teams, such as NCAA basketball rankings and ESPN Power Rankings. You know, to give a bit more detail, ESPN editorial staff will submit selections ranking teams 1 through 31 based on game results, taking into account overall record, recent success, and other factors and criteria, even like injuries. Next, back to teams. So teams, this is another aspect that, you know, is very common in most sports. Let's give a less common example like a relay race. Teams are set up where one individual runs to a specific location on the track and passes off the baton to another teammate to take care of the next exchange point. The team with the best times wins the race. Leaderboards. So there are lots of different types of leaderboards in sports. How many games a team has won, how many points have been scored during a game, or in sports like racing, how fast a particular person or team was compared to others. There's lots of factors to carve up in different statistics and, and rank in terms of a leaderboard.

And I'll use another example, that's schools. Now, some of you may not have thought of schools when you thought of gamification, but in fact, schools and schooling is one of the more advanced forms of gamification and gamified incentives of anything that I can think of, right? So think about all the things that go into getting a grade of A, B, C, D, or F, right? There's lots of different elements. It's, you know, competition, certainly, you know, quizzes, tests, homework, extra credit, participation, attendance, lots of different rules that go into you know, into schooling. Let me talk about some of these. I'll give you an example. All right, so think of challenges. So the completion of a class to move to the next grade, right? So I completed the 8th grade, now I can move on to the 9th grade, right? That's a challenge. You know, the 8th grade, passing the 8th grade, we're out of the 8th grade, would be a challenge. A mission within that challenge, right, because missions like Husseni said are really stair steps to completing the challenge. So think of these missions as stair steps. They're the tests and the quizzes that you need to pass in order to complete the class to get you from 8th to 9th grade. Rules. I rattled off a number of rules, right? All the different things that a teacher takes into account in determining what a student's grade is going to be. So here's some other examples. You have to achieve a certain percentage of everything that you do to get a particular grade. So you have to achieve an average of 90% or better to get an A, or 80% or better to get a B. You have to complete your homework on time, right? If you don't complete your homework on time, we're going to dock you for, you know, every day that your homework is late, certain number of points. So rules play very big in terms of schooling. Competition. You know, so a lot of students in the primary and secondary school systems work hard in the hopes of getting into college someday, right? So it's not just a matter of getting, you know, A's or B's or, you know, whatever your grade point average winds up being. It's, you know, and feeling good about that, it's that that gets you into the next level. But there's competition for that next level, right? Because not, uh, they're not— every student is going to be able to get into college or university, or at least a college or university of their choosing, based on, you know, their performance at the primary school level. So competition is high in, in schooling. And then ranks. So schools get listed against other schools all the time based on the performance of the school students, right? So they get ranked accordingly. So ranks come into play as well. Now, the, um, there are a couple that I left out for schooling. I left out, uh, teams, and I left out leaderboards. And you could make a case for teams at least being included because as in this last example, note what I said, schools get listed against other schools based on the performance of the students. Students may be thought of as a team in that, in that context. But here's the issue with that thing is that most students don't consider or don't care about the ranking of their school, right, in terms of their performance or how hard or how little they work, they're not taking into account what that means for the school and the ranking of that school versus other schools. Now, teams also, though, could be applied in terms of, like, team projects. And you find these particularly at the college level, right? Even MBAs, you know, there's often teams of students. But even in the primary school level, you oftentimes find teams they're assigned in terms of like science projects. I remember in my, my biology class, I was a member of several teams throughout the course of the semester. Leaderboards, I don't know, that one's a tough one in terms of schools, and it's because schools of course are so reticent to make public, either because of the cultural or legal issues, involved with showing where one student is with respect to other students. So leaderboards, I would say, doesn't apply to schooling so well as it does perhaps to sports, where Husseni talked about like the golf leaderboard, for example. There's a leaderboard always in golf events. So not every game of— not each of the 7 gamification elements, I think, applies every context. That's important to remember because you don't have to apply all 7. Right, to your incentive program strategy, right? You can apply just some of those. And we've seen some of these real-world examples that, you know, there are just examples that are where only some of them are applied.

Right.

So, let's talk about gamification in incentive programs, right? What does that mean? Let's start to bring this to, to bear in terms of incentive programs. So we talked about the 7 elements: challenges, missions, rules, competitions, ranks, teams, and leaderboards. Gave you examples of those elements in 2 real-world examples, sports and schools, right? Your incentive program— and again, this is going to go back to that contentious issue that I talked about at the beginning— is that your incentive program may be based on a points-for-actions type of model. That it might make for a very good incentive program. And, you know, it could be a very successful incentive program, uh, but it is the basis for what could be a gamified incentive program if you apply one or more of the gamification elements, you know, to your Points for Actions program, right? Now, these 7 elements kind of translates into what I call 5 gamification concepts: cooperation, competition, elevation, advancement, and time. And so I promised you at the top of the webinar that we would offer our definition of gamification, and here it is: the use of cooperation and competition, elevation and advancement, and time, along with experience design— I'm going to leave that in because I think the experience that the channel partner has in terms of their participation is key. And so I'll credit Gartner with that aspect, that very important aspect of the definition. To add a layer of challenge to motivate people and partners to achieve goals. One more time, the use of cooperation and competition, elevation and advancement, and time along with experience design to add a layer of challenge layer on top of your basic points for action model to add a layer of challenge to motivate people and partners to achieve their goals. If you're not getting enough out of your channel partners with your base points for actions incentive program, adding gamification as a layer into your, your incentive program models could bear really good fruit. So I wanna talk about some of the advanced gamification elements. We talked about rules. In Cielo, you have rules. So, yes, you have if-then-else rules, obviously. But I'm gonna talk about some of the advanced rules capabilities. The one being performance models. So there are several prepackaged built-in performance models out of the box that FIAL provides. One is called the race. So you can define a new incentive, and you could define that incentive as a race, which sets, you know, one against others to see who finishes first, who finishes second, who finishes third, etc. It's very similar to like a NASCAR type of model, already prebuilt, prepackaged into the, into the product. So think, for example, you know, you could get, um, you have a goal, a company goal that you just need your channel partners to get there fast. Maybe wind the clock back a few years ago, you wanted your partners to be certified on cloud, right? So you could, and And it was critical that they do so fast because, you know, you think that the tech vendors' channel ecosystems that were certified in cloud or manufacturers' channel ecosystems that were certified in IoT, the Internet of Things, was critical in gaining market share, right? So you might want to make that a race where, you know, you give a certain number of points for the first and slightly fewer points for second and slightly fewer for third and on and on, just like the NASCAR model. You can extend points out as far as you want. Look at— here's another one that's in addition to race, which is called performance improvement. So think about race as a benchmark against time. You can think about benchmark performance improvement as a benchmark against oneself, right? So you're using historic, for example, previous period data as a baseline to measure, uh, activities, a channel partner's activities in the current period. Here's an example, right, that the average amount of time that it takes for a channel partner to close a deal is 6 months, and you've done your studies, you've done your analysis, done your research, and that is way above what the industry average is. And in fact, more than that, it really reduces the number of deals or opportunities that a channel partner can close in any given year, right? So you can apply a rule, and this is actually a lot of rules, but it comes as a prepackaged single rule to set up an incentive using performance improvement, right? So that a certain number of points are granted or rewarded to the channel partner for how much they reduce their average deal close time, right? And so in this example, The average is 6 months. The channel partner reduced their average deal close time to 3 months. That's a 50% increase in deal— or actually decrease, 50% improvement in deal close time. And so you would reward the points accordingly based on how much they improved over that 6-month average. Last but not least out of the box is a performance model in the rules engine called top performers. So where race was a benchmark against time and performance improvement was a benchmark against yourself, top performers is a benchmark against others. Right? And this, you almost think of this in terms of schools grading on the curve. Right? Where you know, the top 10% or the top 20% get an A, and the next 10% get a B, and the next, you know, 20% after that get a C, and so on and so forth. This is the same concept that's built into the Fialo top performers model that you can apply, right? So think about the goal being to download the most amount of content from your website, right? And so, you know, at the end of the period— might be a month, might be a quarter— you know, whatever time period you specify, you tally up all the content that's been downloaded or consumed, and you could even extend it to be shared, you know, or published, republished, or referenced by a blog. You can use all of these criteria to determine channel partners' performance in terms of consuming and using your content. Right, and what you do at the end of the period, you can divide them up into quartiles or quintiles, or in this example, terciles. It's a little, um, there's your answer to your next trivia question. How do you break, uh, uh, three— what are three things broken down to? There were— there, there are terciles. And so you would give the most number of points to the tercile that downslopes and consumes and uses the most, uh, fewer points for the second tercile and fewer points, you know, that for the third. And one more I wanted to give you in terms of what you can use in terms of advanced gamification, mission prerequisites, alright? So mission prerequisites require one or more missions to be accomplished before allowing the member or the channel partner to participate in the next mission. Right? So if there was a challenge that had 3 missions in it, Mission 1 and Mission 2 can be configured to be prerequisites for Mission 3, meaning that both Mission 1 and Mission 2 need to be accomplished before Mission 3 can become active for that channel partner or that member. And by layering different elements of gamification into your incentive program, you can tap into some of the fundamental aspects of what makes sports and school, uh, and other aspects of everyday gamification fun, competitive, and addictive. In other words, they are the keys to energizing your channel partners and keeping their interests high in their performance. At a peak level. So with that, let me turn it over to Husseni.

Thanks, Tim, for that setup there. So let's now go into the final part of the webinar. You know, let's put this gamification to work, right? As Tim laid out in that last slide, he gave us a format. Let's, you know, put this gamification into a business example. I'm going to use a B2C example. So We're available, you know, we are available to help you map out a more detailed B2B channel example as well. So let's take 2 objectives. You know, we're a B2C brand, right, looking to use gamification to build loyalty and complete 2 objectives here. And 1, ensure that more than 80% of your customers that have enrolled in your loyalty program complete their profiles. And number 2, increase the average amount of winter gear being purchased per customer. Okay, so Challenge 1: when a new member signs up, they are automatically enrolled into a challenge with the goal to fill out their profile within 48 hours to receive a $10 coupon. Otherwise, the challenge will close without giving them any reward. The challenge has multiple missions within each that need to be completed in order for the challenge to be completed. Okay, so each mission takes on a different aspect to the completion of the profile, but Mission 1 is a prerequisite for Mission 3, meaning that Mission 1 needs to be completed in order for Mission 3 to be unlocked. When the user completes all the missions within the 48-hour window, it allows the entire challenge to be completed as well. Allowing for a second challenge to appear called the Queen of Winter Challenge, right? Remember our objective number 2. So challenge 2 has 4 missions within it, but with ranks for each mission. So when the member enters the challenge, they start out in the Snowball rank, and by completing the first mission to buy a pair of gloves, they move on to mission 2 with a new ranking, Snow Sculpture. Members will find Mission 3 locked until they complete Missions 1 and 2, as those are prerequisites in order to start the next mission. Mission 4 gets very interesting. The way the reward is measured is based upon how the member does in comparison to others. In other words, the rule for that mission is to reward the top 3 performers in winter gear purchases. Alternatively, you could design a Mission 4 as a race and stipulate that the first 3 members to buy $1,000 in winter gear gets rewarded. So as this example illustrates, loyalty programs can include layers of game mechanics that build the competition, excitement, and a new set of rules that games have been using to keep players coming back for more and more. Okay, so let's take a quick example, actually a quick look and demo at Pielo and how gamification can be configured and experienced within the platform. So here we have the admin view, right, for managing the incentive program in Fiala. So let me walk you through some screenshots here. You know, we talked about a number of gamification elements today, and here in Fiala we have a flexible point-and-click incentive engine that has these gamification elements built in out of the box. You define challenges, missions and rules within those missions to drive your desired goals. You know, the next question is, are those goals being achieved? And so in FIELA, you have this admin cockpit with reports and dashboards to track your program success, the objectives, and also the breakdown of those objectives to understand what's working, what's not within your program. Now let's flip to the member experience, which is so critical, right? I mean, you've designed this great program with effective gamification, right? It won't bear fruit unless the member understands it and is placed within it. So Fielo, we have these configurable front-end components you see here on the slide to target the member experience. So as a participant, I see what incentives, what challenges, and what missions within those challenges I'm eligible for and I'm participating in. And how I'm tracking through them with progress bars and leaderboards, and what will I get in terms of reward types. So again, you can all see dashboards here in a member cockpit. You know, dashboards and reports could be a great tool to communicate, especially in the B2B program, and we have them here for the member experience as well. Back to you, Tim.

So we talked today about how many of the aspects of life are gamified. We talked about sports, sports in schools as two examples. I'll give you three more, and you can probably come up with several more of your own, right? So business, business is a form of gamification. Think about competition in business, right? Businesses are competing for market share. Businesses are competing for the best talent, right? And there's all sorts of leaderboards in terms of the New York Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ. Exchange, things like that. So business is another aspect of life, everyday life, that actually has a number of gamification elements that are built into it. At that micro level, your job— our jobs are essentially gamified, right? We get promoted, we get bonuses, right? So there are rewards, there are rules that go into determining, you know, what rewards we get and how much reward we get. Certainly there is competition involved Right? Not everybody can get promoted, at least all at one point in time. And so even your job and politics— I probably don't have to talk about politics being gamified in the United States. We're in the midst of a political campaign where you have missions which are to, you know, win the primaries in each state. Consider each of those a mission. And, you know, the bigger challenge to, you know, be the candidate of your party to be nominated to run for president. And certainly there are rules in politics, not that the politicians always follow all the rules, but there are rules or guidelines, you know, in politics as well. So sports, schools, business, job, politics, a lot of aspects of our lives, everyday lives, are actually gamified. Now we went through 7 gamification elements, right? Challenges, missions, which missions you can think of as kind of sub-challenges or stair steps within a challenge, right? So you have one, one kind of overarching goal or thing that you want your channel partners to achieve. You may have stair step missions within that challenge that get them to that challenge on a milestone basis, right? Using essentially shorter quests or shorter missions. Uh, rules we talked about, uh, we talked about, you know, simple rules. We also talked about advanced rules, like for example, the performance models baked into Fjello, like race, like performance improvement, um, like, um, top performers. Competition ranks teams and leaderboards. 7 gamification elements. Talked about 5 gamification concepts. This is As you're deciding which of the gamification elements to incorporate, you need to first think about the concepts. What are you trying to take advantage of? Are you trying to take advantage of competition, right, or cooperation, or both? Trying to take cooperation, you might want to use that teams element in your incentive, right, your incentive program. Elevation, advancement, and time. So 5 concepts. And last but not least, as Husseni pointed out in his B2C customer loyalty example, you can combine different elements of gamification, right? It doesn't have to be all 7, right? You can choose some subset to define as you set up, you know, one incentive. And you probably want to vary your games over time. So So you might want to set up a NASCAR-like race system for every— for a year so that every month for the first 11 months, they accumulate points. In the 12th month, only the top performers of the first 11 months aggregated get to participate in that 12 months. So you might want to keep in place for a year, but you don't want to keep a gamification model, I think, in place for 2 or 3 years. That oftentimes happens on the B2C customer loyalty side, and you can see that a lot of customer loyalty programs, the interest just wanes. It's over time, it's, it's, it's high in the beginning, but when that model doesn't change for 3 or 4 years or longer, it just wanes. So particularly with channel partners who are you know, their businesses are always looking for the next edge. Think about how you can incorporate these different elements of gamification, you know, in different combinations over time. So with that, Carlos, did we have any questions come in?

Let me see, and I think we have time for a couple. Let's see, first question. How do field of performance models compare with if-then goal rules? Yeah.

So let me just use one example. So you can, you know, any rules engine has an if-then capability, right? If you achieve a certain amount in sales or you, in the consumer B2C world, if you buy a certain amount of product, then you're going to get some reward, right? That's a simple if-then rules engine. More advanced, you know, rules engine, intelligent rules engines, will incorporate these prepackaged rules like I gave examples of race, performance improvement, and top performers. There are other examples as well that I can give you. But let's, let's pick race. So, you know, race is essentially a rule. It's if you, you know, it's if you achieve a certain goal first, then, you know, you get the reward, right? Or if you're second, right? And that goal can be just the taking of a training class, or it can be combined with a fixed goal of the first to achieve $10,000 in sales for the month, second place. And what, what Fialo has done is making those sorts of advanced rules capabilities very simple, right? They're just a checkbox in the Fiala product where you can have that very sophisticated rule applied, you know, very readily to your incentive.

Great, thank you, Tim. We have time for one more question. Let's see, here's one from Rebecca. I'd like to employ more gamification techniques in my incentive program, but we use a custom platform. "Can you tell me more about what's available out of the box in Fielo?" Sure, I'll take this one, Carlos.

And Tim actually addressed some of this in his response to the previous question. You know, all these gamification mechanics we explored today, all these are out of the box in Fielo. And as Tim was describing with races and top performers, these gamification mechanics are all out of the box in those screenshots that you saw of our incentive engines. Where you can click your way to setting up simple and advanced gamification in your incentive program without customization, right, which is one of our competitive advantages to a custom platform like Rebecca seems to have. You know, as a product, our aim was to make incentive programs simple to set up and automate the management. So indeed, you know, programs will change as you are looking to do more over time, and with FieldYou, you have that agility to continually evolve the program and keep it successful with, uh, point-and-click configuration.

Great, thank you, Husseni. And with that, we are out of time. Thank you everybody for joining us. I would like to let you know that we do have an upcoming ebook coming up on gamification and how you can leverage it to pump up your programs. So if you'd like to be notified ahead of time of when it's coming up, please put in your email info into the chat box and we'll let you know as soon as it's available. With that, thanks again for joining us today. Thank you, Tim and Husseni Rasiwala-Yaliwala-Yaliwala. If you want more information about Fialo or Fialo products, please visit us at fialo.com. Thank you, everybody, and have a great rest of your day.